290°
Submitted by masterlinkace 742d ago | opinion piece

Why Fighters are bad for gaming

Karl looks at how fighting games and the community is blemishing the good world of gaming, showing why it all needs to stop. (3DS, Arcade, Mortal Kombat 9, PS Vita, PS3, PSP, Street Fighter IV, Tekken Tag Tournament 2, Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom 3, Wii, Wii U, Xbox 360)

RIPSKATEDESTROY  +   742d ago
Ban a genre because of how some gamers choose to react is just weird. If this is the case we should ban shooters too! How about this, ignore the trolls and move on.
LOGICWINS  +   742d ago
Completely disagree that fighters should be banned because certain people in fighting game communities are elitists whose lives revolve around pwning newbs. Just press the mute button :)

The title should be changed to "Why fighting game communities are problematic", since the complaints in the article are about the fighting game COMMUNITY..not fighting GAMES.

HOWEVER, there ARE issues with the genre. SSF4 is ridiculously inaccessible to new players. A fighter should give you the tools you need to become master. With SSF4, its like the creators purposely DON'T want you to learn how to play the game competitively. If I have to go on the Internet to learn how to land two punches in succession...thats a major game design issue.

It's amusing to me that Capcom does this because in the end they only hurt themselves by limiting their community to "no lives" who devote hours a day to training. Thats part of the reason why Street Fighter X Tekken underperfomed saleswise.

The fact that these games are so difficult to learn perpetuates an elitist attitude. When a small group of people are good at something, they tend to think their on top of the world/better than everyone else.

THATS why these people are overly competitive and angry all the time.
#1.1 (Edited 742d ago ) | Agree(10) | Disagree(13) | Report | Reply
admiralvic  +   742d ago
You have to look at this logically, which you ironically aren't. It's extremely difficult to TEACH someone to play, so a lot of games do introductions or add practice. This is why we have trials, challenges, missions and other things that FORCE you to do exact combos. These using require timing, which you learn by failing them till you realize that it's not "Punch, Punch" it's "Punch, wait 2 seconds, punch". Sure it could be better, but virtually every fighter (regardless of the maker... so don't call out Capcom.) could be better.

Furthermore, you couldn't be more wrong about Street Fighter X Tekken. The main reason it failed was due to the DLC fiasco, which resulted in people speaking with their wallets. You would have to be a FOOL to think that the backlash from asking us to pay $20 dollars for content on the disc wouldn't be the main reason the game didn't sell. The other reason was due to people expecting another version, since Capcom fighters typically get the "Oh I'll wait for the super ultimate final uber duber edition".

Finally, this mentality appears (in different tiers) in virtually every genre / game. Go read the Gearbox forum and you'll see tons of people talking about how elite they're for not using any cheap weapons to kill the raid bosses and in turn mock anyone that doesn't want to farm for 100 hours to get the EXACT perfect item you need. Go read any topic about the Souls series and you'll see people start crying / freaking out that the game might change in some minor way. The simple CONCEPT that more people will get to experience the game is a turn off to them, since it ruins "their game". Thats just part of online gaming and has always / will always be there. The best thing is to ignore them, over removing a genre / series from existence.
LOGICWINS  +   742d ago
"It's extremely difficult to TEACH someone to play, so a lot of games do introductions or add practice. This is why we have trials, challenges, missions and other things that FORCE you to do exact combos. These using require timing, which you learn by failing them till you realize that it's not "Punch, Punch" it's "Punch, wait 2 seconds, punch"."

....

Whats EXTREMELY difficult about coding the words "Punch, wait 2 seconds, punch" in a tutorial? Something so simple could save many people so much frustration. Timing plays a major role in doing combos for all fighting games and the tutorial in SF is completely vague about it.

YES, virtually every fighting game has this issue...BUT

In MK9, the fighting is more slow pace so its very easy for me to understand how to time combos since the windows for error are bigger. On the other hand, SSF4 is very fast pace and requires more precision, thus more hand holding.

THATS a legitimate issue.

"You would have to be a FOOL to think that the backlash from asking us to pay $20 dollars for content on the disc wouldn't be the main reason the game didn't sell."

Re-read my comment. I said the difficulty of SSF4 was PART of the reason SF Cross Tekken under performed...not the MAIN reason.

"Finally, this mentality appears (in different tiers) in virtually every genre / game."

When did I deny that? What does that have to do with anything? My comment was directed towards fighting games because this is an article...about fighting games.

/facepalm
#1.1.2 (Edited 742d ago ) | Agree(1) | Disagree(5) | Report
KwietStorm  +   742d ago
There is absolutely nothing inaccessible about Street Fighter. Playing the game and getting good are two different things. In this day, just about every game on the market "requires" research if you want to find out the metagame in competitive modes or even single player. That's just the world we live in. Or are you gonna say the internet is inaccessible too?
LOGICWINS  +   742d ago
^^The tools to master a game should be available WITHIN the game...is that really too crazy of a request?
Ben_Grimm  +   742d ago
"^^The tools to master a game should be available WITHIN the game...is that really too crazy of a request?"

Seriously? Have you even PLAYED SF$? because if you have you would know they have a Practice/Training mode. In this mode they LITERALLY show you how to do combos, moves, specials and ultras. The buttons light up when you perform the right combo. They even show you the motion of the moves. They are holding your hand the whole way. A child could figure out the timing.

Fighting games LIKE ANY OTHER GAME requires you to practice so you can get good at it. How can you say the tools are not there. Obviously they are since other people figured them out and used them. This is what competition is all about.

"Re-read my comment. I said the difficulty of SSF4 was PART of the reason SF Cross Tekken under performed"

*SPITS DRINK OUT*

Admiral is spot on and I will tell you another reason why SFxTekken failed because they had preset combos mapped to one button, plus gems that could alter stats and automatic tech throws.

MK9 and SF4 are two completely different beasts in terms of fighting but a lot of the basics are in each game.

These people are overly competitive because it is a competitive game. It was made to be this way and always has since SF2. How in the hell is Capcom limiting their community In fact they have re-sparked the fighting genre and the community by releasing SF4 all those years ago. The community has grown even bigger and still continues to this day.
ChronoJoe  +   741d ago
Personally I don't think on-disc DLC is why it underperformed at all.

Marvel managed to get away with selling you the same game twice. That didn't underperform as a result. That's because Marvel has a much stronger following because it's a better game, mechanically.

With that said of course on-disc DLC didn't help, not sure why consumers object to it personally though. Most DLC is developed pre-release, really doesn't matter to me where it's stored, considering I judge the original package based on what's actually there and playable, and purchase if I deem that worthwhile.

But I digress. SFxT would have taken off if it was a better game. It's boring to watch because it's slow paced and a lot of competative players feel it's easier / better just to stick to SSFIV (arguably a better game).

It will be dead if it's dropped from Evo 2013. Not sure if it is or isn't yet, rumour has it has been dropped already which makes sense considering it's the numbers at other majors, but we'll see.
BertlSenix  +   741d ago
See thats the problem with this Gen.

Most people are brainwashed by the casual crap like CoD or Halo.
Jump in and be World champion without any effort.

Games in the past days were ALL on this niveau.Even platformers were somehow difficult.

Today everyone is a bunch of whiners and kids who don't know crap about gaming.
The fighting Community is like the RTS Community the last known survivor of the CoD Casualization.
We have 2 Genres that are made for good players.Even shooters declined a lot...No Quake,UT,CS and so on these days anymore.
Just such crap like CoD and Halo where a 5 year old with the reflexes of a dead person could be the best.
Leave some players space to compete with the best people in the world if they want to.
Don't be jelly cause you can't put 10+ hours a day into practice and fight for the big money.
liquidhalos  +   741d ago
Games dont make stupid people, stupid people make stupid people. I can say with all honesty that when i play fighters i dont get the urge to be a sexist moronic twat. Im me before i play, i me while im playing and im me when im done playing. Massively competitive people will for the most part be
rude nasty buggers regardless of format. Why should normal gamers have to stop playing fighters because of kiddies who cant control their tempers?
wishingW3L  +   742d ago
never mind, the guy does have a point. After reading this he convinced me and I'm a huge fighting game fan!
#2 (Edited 742d ago ) | Agree(3) | Disagree(4) | Report | Reply
wishingW3L  +   742d ago
And to add a bit more fuel: http://www.youtube.com/watc...

for those that don't want to watch the video the thing is that Miles is a pretty well known person in the FGC and because of his experience he made a Youtube channel to give tips to the noobs that want to start in the FGC and become better players. Nothing wrong with that, right? Well, not everybody thinks like that because there are a bunch of people insulting and harassing him saying that he is killing the FGC for helping n00bs get good to form part of the community.

Then we have the situation of Aris harassing Super Yan and Kayo Police live on stream (Capcom banned him from their tournaments BTW). And not to mention what Filipino Champ did to DiosX when he humiliated him in a Curleh Mustache Tournament during the summer... It was sad but at least he apologized a few weeks later: https://www.youtube.com/wat...

So much drama!
#2.1 (Edited 742d ago ) | Agree(1) | Disagree(2) | Report | Reply
Robotronfiend  +   741d ago
Filipino Champ is trash. Always has been, always will be regardless of how well he can push buttons on a game.
OneAboveAll  +   742d ago
You can't be serious? I'v seen movies with more gore than Mortal Kombat. *cough*Saw*cough*

Let's ban movies too! Oh, and the news such as FOX because they show some pretty f***ed up sh*t too.

Video games do not make people go out and kill others. You know what makes people go out and kill others? Mental issues.

I played MK when I was a kid and I have yet to go out and shoot up a school. Why? Because my parents whooped my ass to keep me in line.

If anything, violent games are great for stress relief. Would you rather your kid shoot people and take his anger out in an online game? Or run down the street guns blazing?
#3 (Edited 742d ago ) | Agree(2) | Disagree(12) | Report | Reply
darkpower  +   742d ago
So...you're saying that you didn't even bother to read the article?
Shep0d  +   742d ago
So... Did you enjoy reading the title?
ChronoJoe  +   741d ago
Things like this are why you have one bubble.
masterlinkace  +   742d ago
...that's not the point of the article, nothing is ever mentioned about the violence being bad.

He is actually talking about how overly competitive and sexist the fighting community is. The author even talks about how he is a massive fan of fighters.
#4 (Edited 742d ago ) | Agree(2) | Disagree(1) | Report | Reply
DivineAssault  +   742d ago
how bout just being more strict on who these games are sold to? The rating isnt there for no reason so card lil punks that try n buy M rated titles
PopRocks359  +   742d ago
It starts with education. Who buys these games? Adults.
Playstation4LyFe  +   742d ago
how about.. WHY CASUAL GAMERS ARE BAD FOR GAMING.. f***in casuals
PopRocks359  +   742d ago
You can't really make that argument if casual gamers give the industry a whole load of money.

Quality and depth is another story though.
Playstation4LyFe  +   742d ago
true, but i hate how people only play like 1 game and then think its good because everyone else is playing it, its like brain wash, they need to expand their horizons.
neogeo  +   741d ago
-bub for your retarded comment
Sketchy_Galore  +   742d ago
Fighters have never been my thing, same goes for most competitive multiplayer. I'm into games for the chance to escape into another world and have an experience, whether that's through something heavy like Journey or something simple and fun like Ratchet and clank. I think I'm just too lazy to be competitive. I'm not judging people who play to test themselves against other gamers and see how they stack up. I just don't have any drive to do that kind of thing myself.

Having said that, competitive games are like competitive sports. While the professionals and the people who truly excel at it are the ones who just enjoy testing themselves and trying to improve, it's not hard to see why it also attracts a crowd of ignorant asshats who just want any excuse to feel superior to others. Insecure racists and misogynists are attracted to these types of games for the very reason they're attracted to racism and misogyny. It gives insecure people a chance to 'prove' how superior they are without having to go to all the trouble of leading a good and decent life.
LOGICWINS  +   742d ago
Well said.
aiBreeze  +   742d ago
Disagree with the article from my experience. Okay that video tooling that poor guy who lost $90 was extremely harsh but I've never seen anything like that. I find the community one of the most accepting and mature communities around, best yet, they love poking fun of esports and the majority see it as something they enjoy and as a hobby rather than "cyberathletes" competing in a sporting competition .

Also sexist with females? No more so than any other gaming community. While Choco Blanka certainly isn't deserving of her sponsor, I don't know how the article writer can talk about pumping loads of hours into Soul Calibur yet completely fail to mention the French lady Kayane or whatever her name is.

The main negative I see in the fighting game community would be stream monsters.. some of the stuff that goes down in stream chat would have most people behind bars if they said half the stuff in public. However once you've been in the community long enough, you almost learn to appreciate the stream monsters.
#8 (Edited 742d ago ) | Agree(0) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
Hicken  +   742d ago
And some of the best fighting game players I know are female.

Because some dumbasses think having a penis makes them superior isn't a reason to ban an entire genre. Just deal with those idiots.

Hint: they exist in all gaming genres, and in all entertainment bases. It's nothing unique to gaming. Ever heard of people bashing a girl who wants to race or place some sport with the boys? Yeah.
aiBreeze  +   742d ago
Lol disagrees must be from some insecure guys. Never heard of guys bashing girls for wanting to play sports , most welcome it especially in contact sports, nothing like getting some boob brushing up against your back.
#9.1 (Edited 742d ago ) | Agree(2) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
soundslike  +   742d ago
Dumbest thing I've ever seen on this site
Neoprime  +   742d ago
This is because like most video games fighting games lack "Sportsmanship".
MarauderShields  +   742d ago
After playing a lot of games of both DOTA and LOL I can safely say that the elitist of the fighting game community are little children in comparison to the elitist of MOBA games.
masterlinkace  +   742d ago
I agree, I have had a much worse experience playing these games than I have fighters, but then again, I mostly play fighters with my friends locally, don't really touch them online. I'm not sure how bad it gets.

I think the whole point really though is that there are small groups of gamers, who are more prodominant in certain genres, like fighters, that just become a blemish on the rest of us all. They may have lots of skill at a select game, but that doesn't make them a better gamer, nor should their behaviour reflect so badly on us 'normal' gamers.
Donnywho  +   742d ago
Karl Smallwood? heh heh
Omnislash  +   742d ago
The fighting game community does suck, but that doesnt mean we should stop playing fighters. If anything we should all stop playing CoD, thats the REAL problem.
KarlSmallwood  +   742d ago
I wondered why this was getting a whole bunch of views from nowhere. Thanks N4G!

I've had a few comments on the site itself so thought I'd address them here too.

I wrote that article from the view point of a casual fan of the fighting game scene, it wasn't written to criticise the community, it was written to criticise how the community treats people who aren't intimately familiar with the scene.

The fact I've had bunch of comments saying the article is terrible and I don't know what I'm talking about kind of proves that I had a point.

The reason I said that fighters are bad for gaming is because to an outsider, the community seems to be very intimidating and/or unwelcoming to both new players and women who make up a huge chunk of the mediums demographic.

If you disagree, awesome! Disagreement brings compromise which is how blow jobs were invented. But are you really going to change my mind that the fighting game community is full of dicks by commenting and saying I'm an idiot? Because that's all that has happened so far. If you wish to open up a dialogue or change my mind, I'm happy to speak to anyone who thinks I've got something wrong. Like I said, I'm not an expert on the matter, just a fan.

Thanks for reading!
Lord_Sloth  +   741d ago
No. The Fighting Game Community is no worse than any online competitive scene. To single out fighters is just ignorant.

The 1st thing I ever heard online in Modern Warfare was "Shut the f*** up, noob!" when all I did was say hello. This goes back to the days of Socom 2 and further back still to the days of Unreal Tournament. Hell even Ventrillo, which isn't even a video game gets trash talkers on it. This is just humans being asses.
aiBreeze  +   741d ago
I think the US scene probably is intimidating for new people. As Maximillian has said, it's a community deeply founded in it's roots and they don't want that to change. The rise of online brings a whole new breed to the community and some of which are both arrogant and ignorant to the actual "scene" which is predominately offline.

Also @ Lord_Sloth, he isn't talking about online at all, most of his argument is about offline. Fighting games have never had a proper competitive online experience. With a few exceptions (Wolfkrone I think being one of them) most of the "top" online players would be "free" against the big names.
violents  +   741d ago
Fighting games above all are strictly competetive arenas, there's not much tactical gameplay. And in an environment like that you are just going to have some people who have mastered it because in their life this is the thing they are great at. Of those people some are going to have that douchey elitest attitude and there is really nothing you can do about it. Honestly if you go into a place like that and expect a bunch of $hit talking losers to hold off on you because your on the verge of tears your retarded. Who goes into an extremely competitive environment and expects people to "take it easy on them" because they arent as good. If you take issue with this it sounds like something you should take up with the game devs. Perhaps some sort of matchmaking where they couple people that are at the same level so they dont end up getting decimated by a veteran of the game. You can't expect people to take steps back to accomodate others that arent as far as them skill wise.

I'm not saying its right but I understand why it happens. Some people are just asses and there's nothing you can do about it. Although it would help to man up and not cry about it. Crying around a bunch of bullies is just giving them something else to rag on you about.
#15.3 (Edited 741d ago ) | Agree(0) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
AznGaara  +   741d ago
Ban a genre to all based on the actions of a few. Judge a whole community based on the actions of those few. Makes sense... -_-
Kyosuke_Sanada  +   741d ago
You might as well get rid of everything that has versus as an option in general. I have read some "Who-hash" in my time but I have never had any of these problems in my arcade days at all. Every professional in any genre had to start off new and I am sure they saw people who were leagues above their levels with out douches to boot. But they chose to press on for their own reasons, albeit liking the game and wanting to master it's mechanics or to put the above type of players in their place (which is why I played some games myself back in the day XD)

The reason why they are so many aim to humiliate people online and off is because it's what draws attention which is plain and simple no matter what game there is. Online and anonymity is what dividing the the game community so if anything, people should have articles to make people aware of these atrocities then find ways to prohibit this idiocy in general and discourage new players from following suit.

Instead all I read is a rant that personifies the term "Scorched Earth" which brings a permanent solution for a temporary problem.
#17 (Edited 741d ago ) | Agree(0) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
andrew171994  +   741d ago
You can tell this guy only plays fps's, sry of fighin games are too hard and they annoy you, but they are the funnest games. They shows how good you are at playing games not just turning ur analog stick n pressing R1, u have to learn combos and actually know how to move all it fingures to play the game.
Shep0d  +   741d ago
Again... This is nothing to do with the article. One of the first sentences is about how Karl LIKES playing fighting games.
PurpHerbison  +   741d ago
For the most part, every community is bad. Thing is, the roots of the FGC go back to the Arcade where things were much more raw. Face to face interaction, good or bad. But at the end of the day it doesn't even matter. Extremely silly article considering gaming communities are just sub communities of our failing human race. What do you really expect?

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