World of Goo cocreator Ron Carmel says he left publisher because he felt company was a "machine" that curbed his creativity.
(Dev, EA, Industry, Ron Carmel)
There are exceptions. Some(few) developers are given the time and freedom they need to create what they want. But publishers like EA, among others, don't believe in this. They have a conveyor-belt way of making games, using a cookie cutter process based on current trends to maximize profit... or something like that, lol
Art is a broad term. Video games fall under the interactive media category. Dishonest and overproduced work, whether it's a musical piece, film or video game, however, are not good examples of "art".
@Godmars290 Then by your criteria, films are not art; because large Hollywood studios churn out films with profit in mind. Also should any painting or sculptor that was ever commissioned by patrons be classified as art (i.e. Sistine Chapel or Michelangelo's David)?
@jony_dols Many films aren't art. They might be fan genre favorites which use every trope and cliche, but they aren't art. Most are just exploitative cash grabs though there are instances where movie producers mostly - mostly - step back and throw money at the actual movie makers because of high expectation of said money coming back to them tenfold. That's going on with the Hobbit.
And then you have instances like Twilight or Remey's Spiderman 3 or Bey's Transformers: low production values throughout, studio demands directly interfering with directing scripting and plotting or just a straight up FX hack job.
The gaming industry is and has been dominated by the worst aspects of the public creative process. EA especially serves as example with what happened to Mass Effect being example of why. EA picks Bioware and as the series becomes more popular, more advertised, production values go down while scheduling expectations go up. Until you get the total mess that was ME3 with its glaring ending which its makers had the nerve to hide behind "their artistic vision" in defense. What Square's done with FF this gen, turned it into the bland yearly sh*tstain event Wada promised as he parroted Bobby Koteck in removing in making games, is another.
And as for your moronic comparison to something most certainly considered art to what was written in reference as the generalize state of the industry if Michelangelo had been a simple hack rather than the talented artist he was who expressed the higher mindset of his time, no one would give a flying f*ck what he did today. The man's work still inspires.
Meanwhile on the other complementary end of the scale Casey Hudson and crew are trolling the fan-base for ideas for ME4.
Also, anyone who disagreed with my prior post, nevermind about the thin-skinned ones this will get - YOU'RE PART OF THE F*CKING PROBLEM!!
@NathanExplosion: Why are you even disagreeing with me when I meant the media in general?
'And examples like this are why games aren't art.' 'Many films aren't art. They might be fan genre favorites which use every trope and cliche, but they aren't art. Most are just exploitative cash grabs though there are instances where movie producers mostly - mostly - step back and throw money at the actual movie makers because of high expectation of said money coming back to them tenfold. That's going on with the Hobbit.'
You've just toatally contradicted yourself. There is sell-outs in every form of media, but you're genarilziation that ALL video games are not art, is wrong. I was making the point that even though large film studios produce a lot generic filler it doesn't mean that everything they produce isn't without artistic merit. For every Spiderman 3 you have The Godfather, for every Ice Age 12 you have Wall-E.
And it's the exact same in gaming, there is the sell-outs (i.e. COD) & the inspired (i.e. Journey). Hell even EA has produced games like Mirror's Edge & System Shock 2...
Look at Sony's first party devs, they make art. Even when they struck gold with Uncharted, they took two years to make each game. Overall the quality of the content is much better than a franchise that's milked yearly.
Edit: off topic: Jesus f****** christ! WHY do people say (spoiler) and then put the spoiler IMMEDIATELY after that! Tab down a few times! All I wanted was an answer from google and someone has to go and say how inFamous 2 ends while I'm still on my first playthrough of inFamous 1.
Really? I think a certain two ex Bioware founders would strongly disagree there. EA are the same as ever they just stepped up their game as they realized they can't keep churning out complete garbage.
They'd probably get treated with more respect in a factory. Plus their senior management would be far more competent in their respective fields/genres.
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They have a conveyor-belt way of making games, using a cookie cutter process based on current trends to maximize profit... or something like that, lol
Art is a broad term. Video games fall under the interactive media category.
Dishonest and overproduced work, whether it's a musical piece, film or video game, however, are not good examples of "art".
Then by your criteria, films are not art; because large Hollywood studios churn out films with profit in mind. Also should any painting or sculptor that was ever commissioned by patrons be classified as art (i.e. Sistine Chapel or Michelangelo's David)?
Many films aren't art. They might be fan genre favorites which use every trope and cliche, but they aren't art. Most are just exploitative cash grabs though there are instances where movie producers mostly - mostly - step back and throw money at the actual movie makers because of high expectation of said money coming back to them tenfold. That's going on with the Hobbit.
And then you have instances like Twilight or Remey's Spiderman 3 or Bey's Transformers: low production values throughout, studio demands directly interfering with directing scripting and plotting or just a straight up FX hack job.
The gaming industry is and has been dominated by the worst aspects of the public creative process. EA especially serves as example with what happened to Mass Effect being example of why. EA picks Bioware and as the series becomes more popular, more advertised, production values go down while scheduling expectations go up. Until you get the total mess that was ME3 with its glaring ending which its makers had the nerve to hide behind "their artistic vision" in defense. What Square's done with FF this gen, turned it into the bland yearly sh*tstain event Wada promised as he parroted Bobby Koteck in removing in making games, is another.
And as for your moronic comparison to something most certainly considered art to what was written in reference as the generalize state of the industry if Michelangelo had been a simple hack rather than the talented artist he was who expressed the higher mindset of his time, no one would give a flying f*ck what he did today. The man's work still inspires.
Meanwhile on the other complementary end of the scale Casey Hudson and crew are trolling the fan-base for ideas for ME4.
Also, anyone who disagreed with my prior post, nevermind about the thin-skinned ones this will get - YOU'RE PART OF THE F*CKING PROBLEM!!
@NathanExplosion:
Why are you even disagreeing with me when I meant the media in general?
'And examples like this are why games aren't art.'
'Many films aren't art. They might be fan genre favorites which use every trope and cliche, but they aren't art. Most are just exploitative cash grabs though there are instances where movie producers mostly - mostly - step back and throw money at the actual movie makers because of high expectation of said money coming back to them tenfold. That's going on with the Hobbit.'
You've just toatally contradicted yourself. There is sell-outs in every form of media, but you're genarilziation that ALL video games are not art, is wrong. I was making the point that even though large film studios produce a lot generic filler it doesn't mean that everything they produce isn't without artistic merit. For every Spiderman 3 you have The Godfather, for every Ice Age 12 you have Wall-E.
And it's the exact same in gaming, there is the sell-outs (i.e. COD) & the inspired (i.e. Journey). Hell even EA has produced games like Mirror's Edge & System Shock 2...
Edit: off topic: Jesus f****** christ! WHY do people say (spoiler) and then put the spoiler IMMEDIATELY after that! Tab down a few times! All I wanted was an answer from google and someone has to go and say how inFamous 2 ends while I'm still on my first playthrough of inFamous 1.
But EA's loss is another dev's gain. Good luck to you sir.
I just felt the need to quote that this isn't only a EA thing.
Creativity doesn't matter when there is a steady stream of people waiting to buy your product regardless...I'm sure that is how the big-whigs see it.
Why work for a company that doesn't care what you think or support your ideas?