GR - "Nintendo Wii U's comparatively slower processor doesn't matter as much as you've been lead to think."
"The developers of Metro: Last Light also shared their disappointment with the console's processing power. One of the game's lead developers, Oles Shishkovstov, was quoted as saying that Metro: Last Light's CPU-intensiveness made the Wii U an unsuitable platform for the game." If a game isn't being made for the platform because the CPU can't handle it, then IMO it does matter Although the original quote was "We had an early look at it, we thought we could probably do it, but in terms of the impact we would make on the overall quality of the game – potentially to its detriment – we just figured it wasn’t worth pursuing at this time. It’s something we might return to. I really couldn’t make any promises, though."
The trend for CPU's being important in gaming has decreased for decades. 3D video cards changed the game, and they keep onboarding more and more of the load. If people remember Metro 2033 doesn't even run good on an overclocked i7 and a GTX 670, when the DX11 options are enabled. What that means is a PC that can run Battlefield 3 at ultra settings @ 60 FPS, gets more like 25-35 on Metro 2033 and that's when nothing major is happening. So the guy that designed THAT engine, not only made something that high end PC's can barely keep up with, but also is against the grain of where things are headed (aka bad design decision). CryEngine 3, Frostbite 2 ARE next generation engines, and they currently can run on the 360/PS3 as games have already come out utilizing them. The Wii U can definitely run it. But you also have to remember that Metro: Last light only has 80 people making the game, which is far less than AAA devs with hundreds. They don't have the financial backing, especially with THQ not only a mid-major, but a bankrupted mid-major. So you have an ill-designed engine, made for future PC's (far more advanced than the PS4/720), with a company that doesn't have the manpower or resources to tread new ground in an additional way...in a company that's going bankrupt very soon. People are using THAT as reason why the Wii U can't run next-gen games? Especially since even in that quote you get "we thought we could probably do it" "it's something we might return to" $$$$$$ and manpower were the deciding factors, not the Wii U's prowess. It's designed for an ultra elite future PC, so yes, they would have to make sacrifices for it that would be to it's detriment....same as if there was a PS4 or 720, because guess what, those things won't have a GTX 670 in it, and if they DID, they still wouldn't run the DX11 effects that well with it and would detrimentally have to notch it down one or two notches. So read between the lines, even a game that is the least suited to be on a Wii U in terms of design and scope, was thought that "we could probably do it". ...and why are people drawing other conclusions?
So good to read some intelligent comments from a person that actually knows what is going on. Of course, by pointing out the truth people will just say you are making excuses for Nintendo.
Metro 2033 was horribly optimized reminds me of quake 4 I cant run it with 16x msaa and stay above 30 fps with a GTX 670 OC , And cpu do matter because Cpu's let the GPU work if the cpu cant calculate all that GPU info quick enough it slows down the GPU
Unless the Power PC processor has several threads per core, versus the two for the ones in the PS3 and the 360, the clock difference and the fact that it is the same basic architecture means the CPU is almost certainly inferior to current gen consoles. Sure, some tasks can be pushed off to the CPU, but branchy game logic is not a good choice for that, and it would actually run slower - not to mention the fact that it is harder. This is really not all that different than the "code for the SPUs" argument for PS3. When Sony & Microsoft come out with their next consoles, the difference in overall performance (both CPU & GPU) is going to mean that developers will have to design a different product for Nintendo (designed to its strengths, of course - so not necessarily "worse" in all regards). That or they dumb the entire game down to run on the lowest common denominator capabilities among the three platforms. Or they decide to ignore one or more of the platforms.
It's funny how one effect gave 4A a bad rap in terms of optimisation. As long as you don't turn on the crazy DoF effect they had performance isn't that bad considering the image quality. I'm not really sure why they added that DoF implementation, I guess it was so that people that are playing the game in 5-10 years time could have something to play with lol. The 4A engine actually scales very well on the lower settings. They just pushed the effects quality on max to a real high extream with lots of full resolution effects being spamed at once along with the lighting and motion blur etc wich really pushed systems. It's much like Crysis 1 where it was designed to push future systems with it's highest settings rather being built around current hardware. Ether way Metro Last Light is said to be much better optimised for current hardware this time round.
Key thing here is console optimization. As Frostbite 2 and Cryengine 3 were both built with Cross platform optimization into the game engines. I still say Cryengine 3 is still 95% CE 2.0 just with console optimization added into the mix. This engine from 4A doesn't have that or at least it didn't when it came out with PC/X360 game Metro 2033. Now Last Light is on PS3. Thanks to them expanding due to success. I can see WiiU being included in their future. Likely 4A might need a new publisher though. 4A lacks the money to port to the WiiU really. They spread from PC, X360 to PC, X360, PS3. I suspect if they spread anymore its due to publisher giving them more resources, but I doubt Last Light will hit WiiU as THQ is struggling as it is to hold itself up.
cpu speeds still matter; even today. Getting a 6 core amd at 3.3 ghz vs a intel 3 core i5 at 3.3 guess which wins? Intel gives ALOT of 'free' fps because its physically made to process data better then the AMD design. CPU's matter ALOT and anyone who says differently is talking out their asshole. A good cpu lets your hardware breath, a bad cpu restricts its breathing room thus lower fps on a lesser AMD processor for example.
Fairly obvious CPU performance still matters. You can manage with less performance to a certain extent, if that extent is to match the current games consoles PS3/360. However reduced CPU performance means Wii U will never significantly exceed what PS3/360 can do and have been doing for all this generation now. Its GPU is obviously nothing to really get excited about either. Harping on as if it'll save the day by taking a bunch of CPU specific tasks on when it is blatantly slower than a low end desktop GPU like a 6670. People pinning their hopes on the GPU must realise that particular chip isn't anything special! The fact is CELL in PS3 just about makes up for RSX being slower than Xenos in 360 if you really stretch it but PS3 generally doesn't outperform 360 much. The same will be said of Wii U, processors reversed. Is the emphasis on CPU peformance in modern games somewhat reduced from what it was 7 or 8 years ago? Yes. Does that mean that you can get away with having a particularly slow CPU if you really want to push the enveope with visuals and AI etc? No. CPU performance still continues to matter and neither Wii U's CPU or GPU are anything that will blow you away. Long story short, Wii U's CPU is good enough for Wii U, but not good enough for really state of the art 2012 games NOR ones that we can expect in the future on newer hardware. Get over it and stop arguing already.
Another article from an armchair expert. Meanwhile, top developers like DICE and 4A would rather develop for even the complex Ps3 architecture than the Wii U's supposedly "confusing next-gen" magical GPGPU, and cite the Wii U's weak specs.
DICE prefers developing for the PS3 over the 360. They're strong supporters of the PS3 hardware. But yeah. They came out and said the Wii U was weak and won't last long.
Ok so let's do it again like every day Some developers wiiu is weak, fanboys no its no it's next gen Than fanboys wiiu is weak and Nintendo fangirls no it's next gen believe us The reason I said fangirls because Nintendo consoles are for families,kids etc, Ok now that I have that out of my system Wiiu just came out it took ps3 and xbox360 good 2 years before we started to see full potential so let's wait and see. Wiiu is a little bit more power than ps3 and xbox360 because it came 6-7 years after those systems. It shuld have been a lot more powerful than current systems but gamepad is quite expensive to make so Nintendo wasn't about to sell their system for $500. Xbox720 pre what ever it's called and ps4 will be true next gen. 3rd party support for wiiu will just be like wii because most 3rd party publishers see psn and xblive a more core market and both those systems have a proven track record with core fans. Call me a ms and Sony fanboy but end of the day wiiu should have had much better specs, and you know that and so do I I am excited any wiiu and will buy it when Zelda comes out but my main gaming systems will be next Xbox and ps4. Since NES Nintendo has not have great 3rd party support and NES was a long long time ago
Ps3 launched in US Nov. 17th 2006. I believe heavenly sword came out in Sept 2007...that's less than a year the ps3 started showing major potential. Not only that, but the first uncharted came out 2 months later after heavenly sword. power was being pumped early...I hope WiiU can do the same soon.
seriously, effecincy only matters in terms of how it handles things aside from general numbers The hertz is equivalent to cycles per second. In defining the second, the CIPM declared that "the standard to be employed is the transition between the hyperfine levels F = 4, M = 0 and F = 3, M = 0 of the ground state 2S1/2 of the cesium 133 atom, unperturbed by external fields, and that the frequency of this transition is assigned the value 9 192 631 770 hertz" thereby effectively defining the hertz and the second simultaneously. these cores can handle only 1.6 billion operations per second that is fact etched in stone, that is the speed. effeciency is in optimizing the pipeline so that priority operations get done first, you cant make more space in a cycle this isnt ram its not ddrcpu. the chip is slower yes modern cpus are more effecient then olderones but there also on the same speed, theres no magic to do to find more power here its like saying the atom processor single core is better then a athlon duel core, in benchmarking tests yes things that require cetain patterns maybe but not in speed and not by how it functions. x360 3 cores at 3.2 ghz ps3 1ppc 7spe @ 3.2ghz wiiu 3 ppc at 1.26ghz all are duel issue processors meaning it can write one instruction while reading the next. its cpu brings down the whole system remember trying to use high end gpu back in the agp age sticking a voodoo 5 or gf3 in along side your 512 ram and duron 600 cpu.. same thing slow cpu brings everything down.
If you're going to do a copy paste, at least remove the ref numbers :) But yes I do agree, a slow/poorly optimized CPU can cripple a computer. We'll have to see in future whether devs will take the time and effort to properly optimize for the WiiU
The xbox CPU runs at 1.6 Ghz and is rated at 3.2 GHz only when multi-threading The need for CPU's in gaming have been reduced a tremendously since the age of voodo gfx. Most of the work in modern games is done on the GPU. CPU is only used for rudamentary things, A.I. and physics given that its over 6 times stronger. Elebits on the Wii had superb physics running on the Wii's CPU so I don't see how the Wii U's cpu will run into problems. People are taking things out of context and making a mountain out of a molehill with the clock speeds. If you have any questions of what the Wii U can do. Look at ZombiU, Trine 2: Director's Cut and Wonderful 101.
The physics on the Wii U should be done with the GPGPU. So you take that strain off the CPU, freeing that up to tackle other issues.
All 3 of the Xbox 360's CPU cores run at 3.2GHz, no one adds up core or hardware threads to determine clock speed because that wouldn't make any sense.
***Most of the work in modern games is done on the GPU. CPU is only used for rudamentary things, A.I. and physics given that its over 6 times stronger. *** Just FYI, AI and physics are far from rudimentary. I know they aren't equal to the graphic elements being processed, but they are gaining in complexity and form as it stays in equal footing with GPU capabilities.
Trine 2, crappy game btw, might have beautiful graphics, but beautiful as in aesthetic, not as in anything that pushes the hardware. I really hate it when fanboys have no idea what they're talking about and throw names of games out there. It's not just Nintendo fanboys. Sony and Microsoft fanboys as well. But you only further prove my point when naming Wonderful 101. Have you actually seen the graphics or throwing the games name out there because it's an exclusive by Platinum Games? Platinum could possibly release Wonderful 101 on the Wii and pull off the same graphics(the framerate would more than likely suffer, but graphically it'd be the same.) It's definitely not graphically demanding in the least. It's like Mirror's Edge or Playstation Home. Games that use simple textures for clarity.
yea sorry bout that was in a hurry, optimize means combineing functions to minimize operations still held back by the low speed
Optimize means a lot more than that.
optimize definition of. 1. (tr) to take the full advantage of 2. (Business / Commerce) (tr) to plan or carry out (an economic activity) with maximum efficiency 3. (intr) to be optimistic 4. (Electronics & Computer Science / Computer Science) (tr) to write or modify (a computer program) to achieve maximum efficiency in storage capacity, time, cost, etc. 5. (tr) to find the best compromise among several often conflicting requirements, as in engineering design. in other words what i said more or less. if i need to go to the bank on one side of town the grocery on the other and sce school nearer to the bank the optimum route is bank school grocer. i know people hold on to great hope about wii u and its power. and yes gpus are taking over a lot of cpu tasks however cpu is still needed and is still a key part. gpu can run a lot of physics and graphics but falls down in other parts its a bottleneck still but im done here.
When developers complain about the Wii U then yes I care because they make the games and that's what matters not other people saying it being slow don't matter they're not making games so their statement are irrelevant.
It's the context. Not many games in the next ten years are going to be heavily CPU focused. The guy who made those statements is covering for his idiotic decision to make a CPU focused game engine in an era where the game engines made that way are ill-conceived and don't have a future. It's like making a newspaper page turner when everyone is reading the internet. That's what he did. Really, irrelevant? That's a bold claim. I see people of all stripes making stupid comments. Title and position doesn't make one wise or right. That dev is speaking to the direction he made HIS engine, and yet people area also reading his statements wrong. He said they don't have the $$$ and resources to try new things to utilize what the Wii U (and where everyone else is going), so that even though we think it could probably be done, we aren't right now, but maybe. Also in context, his parent company, THQ, is going bankrupt. See the problem? Is it with Wii U or THQ? So realize those two things. 1. Title and position sometimes means jack s... 2. Clearly read the quotes
It doesn't matter, they do there own thing. People compare and degrade the wii u but they don't have to be in an arms race with the others.
Let me throw you an OpenGL book and have you read into what debs have to deal with regarding buffers and then we'll talk.... Ignorance is bliss
I'm not going to come on here and try to talk tech, I barely know any of that stuff. But I will say this, and it's what I've been saying for a while now. Give it a year, wait and see Retro's new game or Monolith's, something built from the ground up for the Wii U that truly takes advantage of the hardware. Uncharted and Gears of War were the first games the truly felt next gen, and they both came out a year after their respective systems were released. And while we're at it, while the Wii was an overclocked Gamecube, Super Mario Galaxy was the first game that truly felt like it couldn't of been done on the previous system, and when did it come out? A year after the Wii was released. Give it a year and we'll see what the Wii U can do. Personally, can't wait to see it.
It DOES matter. Yes it's a console but if anyone has done anything with PC gaming you'll know that RAM+CPU+GPU is a trinity that works together. why have a weak CPU and a strong GPU? It will be noticed. Why have slow ram and a strong CPU with a weak GPU? It WILL be noticed. Nintendo devs will utilize it's architecture and produce amazing games on it I'm sure. I hope they do at least. However where the real test comes is when there are multiplat games for PS4, XBOX 720 and Wii U. Let's see how many corners get cut or if it's supported by all 3rd party devs.
someone is a disagree ghost today
Why can't people just play games and have fun? Its strange to have so many people hating on something they were never going to buy anyway. All this talk about CPU this and clock-speed that is nonsense. The average console gamer has no idea what any of it means. Plus if you only cared about stuff like that why not just buy a high end PC or make one since you guys seem to know so much. Meanwhile I will continue to enjoy my Wii, Wii U and PS3.
It matters to me because I don't like being ripped off the Nintendo Wii U is a typical Nintendo lets keep our console as low spec as possible while calling it "next gen" it's a joke mate
It is next gen. The 7th or last gen systems were 360, PS3, & Wii. It didn't matter that the Wii was the runt of the three it was still part of the same gen. With that out of the way the Wii U is the first 8th gen console to arrive. It doesn't matter if you hate Nintendo or think Sony and Microsoft have all the answers to your gaming needs or vice versa. Gen is short for generation last time I checked. What does that have to do with specs mate?
@MegaLagann Exactly just like everyone else I will wait and see how the wii u does and I'm sure the wii u will get ps4 and 720 ports since all can run next gen engines and all can do native 720 and native 1080p and 60fps etc etc now some ports might look a little better then others but not a big difference and I want a wii u now but can't get one until next year and its really good to see people who actually do research on this site because so many people are stupid lol its shameful
easy...because GPGPU that's all
The real issue is that Nintendo just developed and is releasing a console that has lower performance capabilities than two old consoles that are near the end of their lifespan in terms of hardware capabilities. Developers are already stating that it lacks sufficient power to effectively run games. If we're hearing about this now, what will developers say about the console in 2 years? The best smartphones on the market right now are less expensive (with a contract) and more capable than the Wii U. The top-of-the-line Android device I purchased two years ago became a dinosaur within 2 years. What does this mean for the Wii U? It simply doesn't make sense for Nintendo to underspec a brand new device and expect that it will have a half-decent lifespan. I just don't see that happening. It's not a matter of having fun, people. It's a matter of being sold a device that does what it's supposed to and is worth its cost.
Assassin's Creed 3 on Max Settings looks good, better than the PSWii60U... but not by a big margin, actually more like PS2 to Xbox. That is on hardware that is vastly more powerful. This is how 3rd party multiplats are going to look when the PS4 and the 720 are released. If you are expecting something more... why? If this incredibly more powerful hardware seems to only manage multiplats to that extent, what are you honestly expecting in the future? Some massive leap to avatar like visuals? People on the internet need to get real. Nintendo will be ok. You will see improvement in the exclusives, at least the most anyway, while the multiplats, which so many make the biggest deal about, will be more or less as they are now.
Nintendo has enough iconic 1st party titles they don't really have to worry about this kind of stuff. Tell me where else you will find the newest Zelda or Mario or metroid. The Wii u seems to have some pretty awesome 3rd party support thus far as well I'm not worried
Titles that appeal to lil kids, girls and sissies.
that's why Super Mario Galaxy is the highest rated game of all time? LOL and get the hell out of here with that garbage. I work at an electronics retail store. do you know how many little KIDS I see every single day that have their mommy buy them Call of Duty? that right there destroys your argument. Video games are universal, they are for everyone. Just because you play something that has blood and violence does not make you a hardcore, mature, manly gamer. you're immensely stupid and an immature person if that is the way you think. oh and do you know what else appeals to girls? Final Fantasy, which is what you have a picture of for your avatar. that doesn't mean those games aren't great, but just saying.
Who has ever bought a Nintendo console based upon 'power' alone? who has ever found 'power' to be a convenient agenda driven formula? We want,almost need it to fail and yet we aren't sure why.....
I think people want best of both world.. Awesome "next gen graphics" and awesome gameplay.. And I think their right.. No use calling it a next gen console if it has a current gen technology in it... Plus if graphics didnt amtter like most of you claim, then why bring next gen consoles out anyways? We could've just stayed with the ATARI 2600 like most of you are interpreting. Hypocrites! Face it, people want bigger and better. Its called "bang for buck"
When I saw that the Wii u was using the PowerPC I instantly thought about the Macs years ago. I did't know if the architecture was the same but I remember the PowerPc didn't count on clock speed as much as an x86 proc. A PowerPc gets more done per cycle than an Intel or AMD proc but it requires different coding. If the Wii U is the same then expect the same kind of shitty ports the PS3 gets because developers don't want to recode.
I am still not impressed. You can say whatever you want but for the Wii U to come close in graphics to consoles that are 7 years old is really really lame. The Wii-U can enjoy its brief time in the sun because when the next XBOX and PS4 release they will leave it in the dust. There are only so many times that people will keep paying for the same mario game on a different console.
its because nintendo has metroid , mario and zelda and uses them in great games . even if they know they arent getting the best graphics in the industry gamers know they are going to enjoy great games.
Why is the Wii U constantly compared to the PS3 and Xbox? I thought it was next gen not current, everyone needs to wait six to twelve months for the next PS and Xbox then compare it to those.
Why not? Are you okay dude? There is nothing wrong comparing newer things to older things. We are not comparing Wii U to a car, c'mon.
Did you hear that whoosh sound? Talk about missing the point lol.
Why is everyone getting so bothered about Nintendo doing their own thing? It's obvious they want to create a great gaming experience with the new gamepad. And to be perfectly honest...you guys can speculate all you want...but until we see some titles which are purposefully (no ports) built for the Wii U none of you's can really comment on how lame it is. And for these kinds already saying how much of a powerhouse the PS4 etc is going to be...really? That is based on what? If Sony are smart they might learn a couple things from Vista...that amazing piece of Tech didnt quiiiiiiite do so well, did it now? Same for Msoft...why build such a powerful system when its going to RROD so much? As if they didnt know that was going to happen. Nintendo are smart. They look at whats going on around them and learn off others mistakes. It reminds me of Kindergarten..."Yeah so what? I have a bigger shoe size then you" hahaha Peace
Why are people trying to damage control this, isn't the Wii u suppose to be next gen why is it being compared to current gen consoles. The real shame is on Nintendo for not forking out the money which they have on a better CPU. Im not against the Nintendo as a company but they shouldn't of cut corners here for money.
That's the thing though, they didn't cut corners. Far from it to be honest. Allow me to explain. Okay, so many people flipped out over the Wii and how it was going to fail due to its low spec's making it hard as hell for Developers to create games for it. Yet we all know how that turned out to be. Yet the question is, WHY did Nintendo take that approach. Was it because of Cutting Corners with hardware? NO, remember Nintendo is just a gaming company. They don't have anything to fall back on if there system fails. We have seen such things happen to Nintendo in the past with the Virtual Boy. Which was a completely new Innovation for the Company but it was WAY TO soon for them to do something like that. Now with the sales of the GC not doing much as in sale terms in there favor. Nintendo wanted to do something new. There hardware wasn't doing as to what it was back in NES and SNES but even that is not the reason here cause that can be debated as something completely different. Anyways let me get to my point here. Nintendo can't predict the feature for when it comes to Innovation no one can, i mean as i said with the VB. That completely back fired on them. Now making a system that is designed around Motion Gaming. Nintendo took the risk of creating a system with a brand new Innovation behind it and just decided that "Hey if we make a system that is slighter better then GC and our Innovation doesn't take off or completely bombs, then we won't loose as much money as if we were to make it on Par with the HD systems". That right there makes the most sense to me. If the Wii would of came out and FLOPPED and was also on Par to that of the 360. Nintendo would of LOST so much money. Nintendo is doing the same thing for the Wii U this time around, while also loosing money off each system sold. It makes the most sense to keep costs low for a system to what you are trying to create a new form of Innovation. Any company would believe this is a smart choice. Microsoft and Sony don't have to worry about that, they can take much bigger risks cause they got something to fall back on. Nintendo DOESN'T. This is why i strongly believe to why Nintendo does there choices. Now to use gamer's we don't care and i understand that but when you really look at the bigger picture. It makes sense to me as a gamer and also makes sense to Nintendo as well.
I get your point but why do Nintendo need to base their console on gimmicky innovations, why not next gen hardware. I know Nintendo have a solid first party offering but im sure you have seen not many third party developers are willing to fully utilize it. The N64 and Gamecube were great systems and they didn't use gimmicks.
That is a question that only Nintendo can answer not me. Yet if i had to speculate as to why. Well Nintendo has always been about Innovation. I mean with the NES that brought use the standard controller aspect, The N64 with gave us analog and rumble. Virtual Boy yet also proves that Nintendo is and always will be about Innovation. Trying to set a standard in the industry. Yet remember this is just my theory as to why. At the end of the day, Nintendo if they really wanted to and not go with something that is Innovated, then Yeah we would of saw the Wii U be a way more powerful system.
Why wouldn't hey just put a better processor in it? Easier to program for = better games.
cliffy B is hot like jam on toast mmm mmm good
lets wait and see if the next zelda can beat god of war3 graphically
Why Nintendo Wii U's Slower Processor Doesn't Matter? The answer is simple: Because you are a NintendoFanBoy!!!
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