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Warriors Orochi 3 Hyper frame rate worse than PS3 version

A couple of months back, Akihiro Suzuki noted how the Wii U’s CPU was presenting a challenge in making Warriors Orochi 3 Hyper. Reports had surfaced from TGS that the game possessed a lower-than expected frame rate and fewer on-screen enemies compared to other Dynasty Warriors titles.

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Neonridr1403d ago

Great, another flame-bait article. Clearly this developer isn't familiar enough with the Wii U hardware. Maybe if they had taken some more time than to do a lazy port, this wouldn't have happened.

Whatever.

EcoSos31403d ago

Yep and the bad thing is this one will get approved the one that explain the wii u cpgpu from 7 hours ago wont.

SilentNegotiator1403d ago (Edited 1403d ago )

Quick! Pretend like the CPU is magic (as opposed to the architecture being rather straight forward, constantly quoted as "easy to develop for") and blame the developers!

Pushagree1403d ago (Edited 1403d ago )

Sorry Wii fans, but the "they're just not used to the hardware" argument will not work. It worked for ps3 fans because the PS3's Cell processor was fresh off the factory, so no devs could possibly have any experience with it. Wii U's hardware is not based on new technology, so devs will be able to max it out pretty quickly and there won't be a learning curve. Any issues the Wii U has now will stay with it for the rest of its life cycle.

shutUpAndTakeMyMoney1403d ago (Edited 1403d ago )

"Speaking at this week's Tokyo Game Show, Warriors Orochi 3 Hyper producer Akihiro Suzuki told Eurogamer that the Wii U's CPU power is actually "a little bit less" than the Xbox 360 and PS3,".
http://arstechnica.com/gami...

Ps3 was known to have a faster (but weirder)cpu than 360 and now wiiU is worse than 360?
yikes.

It has a better gpu though.

Still like the idea of wiiU but that cpu. Ninty has no excuse.

The CPU needs to access the GPU's memory and instruct the GPU to perform operations.

So that will effect the gpu also.

If they use the gpu to compute then wiiU would take a graphics hit.

I sense fustrated devs in the future. When games get bigger and they need to port to wiiU.
Something that make look like this?
http://www.youtube.com/watc...

I guess it's part of the reason they profit after one game sale. Cheap hardware.

But it may not matter since it seems ninty usually drop hardware every 5 years.

I hope ps4 take a year to be profitable I want more power.

I will still get a wiiU mid way through ps4 life cycle maybe. I like the tablet.

Also lets hope they are good a security since it's already hacked on day 1.
https://www.youtube.com/wat...

Army_of_Darkness1403d ago

The wiiU is more harder to develop for than the PS3?!?! Hmmmm... Something smells mushroomy...

vulcanproject1402d ago (Edited 1402d ago )

Doesn't seem like flame bait to me. Just seems like a pretty valid report on a game people might wanna know about.

Dunno how people can defend Wii U over stuff like this when we know its GPU is better and we know that devs have a lot more memory to play with so thats not an excuse. They can be pretty lazy with GPU cycles and memory management to get a game to match 360/PS3 in those aspects.

However as I have said before that using a weak CPU will really inhibit games that require lots of cpu calls as in ones with lots of enemies/units on screen at once. Using crappier AI routines to make up the numbers hardly helps. This is one such game. Blaming the developers for Wii U being underpowered in this key department is weak.

You just can't fake proper CPU performance on a GPU. You can help it out, but you simply can't just excuse the CPU of all its duties especially ones that involve many enemies/units.

Can't say I am surprised about this.

+ Show (2) more repliesLast reply 1402d ago
-Mika-1403d ago TrollingShowReplies(7)
MariaHelFutura1403d ago

Nintendo had some major oversights w/ the Wii U.

Example
- The Account you make is tied to the Wii it was designed on and can not be accessed at all by another Wii U or Nintendo customer support. So basically if your Wii U breaks, you lose everything you have purchased and all data tied to that account.

- The Pro controller doesn't have a Headphone jack and I don't believe it supports Wireless headsets. Do you know where the Headset jack is located? On the tablet controller. So if you are playing online w/ a headset you need to have the tablet controller on your lap w/ the headphones plugged in and your Pro controller in your hands.

- The tablet has 3 hrs of battery life and the touchscreen doesn't work as smooth as it should and cannot be charged by the console.

My point. These are MAJOR oversights when making a console. Don't expect a miracle to happen, when it comes to game development on this system. Nintendo doesn't seem to have thought things out very well. Which is a shame IMO.

Neonridr1403d ago

The account based setup is currently limited to only the console you purchase the games on. However that isn't set in stone and is something that Nintendo could change in the future. All they would have to do is link the purchases and downloads to your Nintendo Network ID instead. Whether they do that or not, that's up to them.. :P

The Pro controller doesn't have a headphone jack, but a wireless controller works with the system. But yes, if you have a wired headset, you would have to play with the headset plugged into the gamepad, very stupid imo.

The tablet has 3-5 hours according to Nintendo, obviously it depends on what you are doing with the tablet to determine it's play time. As for the touch screen not working as smooth as it should, I have had no issues with the gamepad thus far, the screen is very responsive (do you even own a Wii U to be making that claim?). The gamepad can be plugged in with the included adapter so you can play with it plugged into the wall. I don't have the time to game for like 5+ hours straight anyways, so whenever I am done with my gaming session, I put the gamepad back on the charging cradle and when I come back it's ready to go. The nice thing is that users have access to the battery pack in the back of the gamepad, so I would totally expect to see 3rd parties come up with batteries that offer extended play time.

Again, the system is based heavily around the GPGPU, so unless developers are going to take advantage of that fact, you'll never see a properly optimized game on the Wii U unless it's coming from 1st and 2nd party developers.

animegamingnerd1403d ago

1.this i am with you on
2. neither does the PS3 controller and i haven't heard anyone complain
3.it doesn't surprise that it is that short and i will just keep it on the charger like every wireless controller when i play it

nerdkiller1403d ago

i laugh every time i see mika kicked off the blog lol

HammadTheBeast1402d ago

@animgamenerd

Good luck when you need to plug it into a wall socket for the charge. Not too convenient.

Perjoss1402d ago

"the touchscreen doesn't work as smooth as it should"

What does this mean, can you give any more details or a link please, first time I've heard about this problem and I'm curious.

1upgamer991402d ago

Nintendo is addressing the Account situation. That will be cleared up in the next couple of weeks. The Pro-controller-I bet within a month we will have another version with a headphone jack. Wireless headsets are being sold already. SO most of your "oversights" are unfounded. They have been or are being addressed. Accept the BIG ONE BATTERY LIFE...Uggg. that is a really big one though!

+ Show (3) more repliesLast reply 1402d ago
MasterCornholio1403d ago

I bet you were one of those who claimed that the Wii would be on par with the 360 and the PS3 just because it was part of that console generation. But you were proven wrong and you are afraid that the same will happen with the Wii U. Its a bit to early to determine how powerful the Wii U is and how powerful the PS3 and 720 will be but it appears that Nintendo is trying to replicate the Wii success with the Wii U. Which most likely means that the Wii U will be slightly more powerful than last gen consoles but it will be behind other current gen consoles like the PS4 and the 720.

Seriously i believed that Nintendo fanboys put gameplay over graphics but it appears that i am wrong.

Eyeco1403d ago (Edited 1403d ago )

I don't doubt for a second that the Wii-U is more powerful PS3 or 360, but then again the Wii was more powerful than the previous gen consoles, but let's be realistic virtually all the games looked last gen.

In theory the Wii was more powerful than the previous gen consoles but there were games released in 2004 that arguably look as good if not better than the best that console had to offer, games like Far Cry, Doom 3, Half-Life 2, Ninja Gaiden, Splinter Cell Chaos Theory, even Halo 2 could hold a candle to Wii games, what does that tell you ?

Even if the Wii-U is slightly more powerful than the PS3 or 360 the question is are we really gonna see that much of a difference in the future ?
Especially when the 720 and PS4 are inevitably gonna be more powerful, are 3rd party devs really gonna be utilising the Wii-U to it's full potential , if it's never gonna hold up to the 720 and PS4 version's because this is what we saw this gen, thats my real question, not if its slightly more powerful, but does it matter if is ? Because the reality is the Wii U isn't some graphical powerhouse.

ChronoJoe1403d ago

To be fair the Wii U has pretty simplistic architecture that these developers should be familiar with working with. It isn't much different to 360 / PCs, obviously different specs but the way they distribute tasks to the processor will be the same completely unlike the manner in which SPUs have to be managed on the PS3.

Sony messed up big time by inventing their own architecture for their hardware, but internally, Nintendo's system is not much more than a generic PC... so these developers have no excuse.

N4g_null1403d ago

I wonder if they will do updates later on.

It seems the plan with these problem riddled games is based on relying on MHz rather than using the features of the gpgpu.

If these guys would have treated each enemy as a cloned AI with instanting it would run alot better. This means you basically run identical clones and have them react as a group in code rather than spawned clones with their own memory maps and branches.

I'm sure Raymon legend is using some thing similar to this. You only have one AI calling for access for 500 characters. Then let simd cores parallel out the code for the gpu side of the gpgpu. A memory call is simply put on pause until the latency time is reached.

You could put a long very long cycle op in while grunts simple excute small attacks while a large AI op is devised.

The branching could be handle by putting enemies in to "wounded" states. At the hits add up you simply delete them from the battle field.

Gpus don't support interrupts and exceptions. Try some coding examples in cuda it is just like writing C code. Yet cuda restricts the number of nested branches.

Vectorizable code will give you a huge boost on a gpgpu when the gpu is used. Technically you could prove the ultimate version of this game. Just rewrite the your code that is being hit with lantancy so it runs on the CPU side of the core while hit smapling and strike animations, things that have no branching are done on the gpu side.

They are simply avoiding the use of the gpu....

The reason why crytek likes the wiiu is because it is made for their coding style. Who else's uses tech similar to this.... Drum roll. The cell is related to the larrabee that swamped the amd apu cores which Sony has been hinted at wanting to use.

One of the out comes of this was avatar using tesla hpc solutions.

So basically you can use a matrix bit map to control all of the fighters on screen and if you use cloning one 5-10 characters need to be loaded into memory. If you use a 32 bit matrix each character could be assign to any color out of millions. Yep you could melt a wiiu with an idea like that but it is possible.

They would only be limited by the number of cores on the gpu.

Yet the general purpose CPU is better at branching. It is easier to program, accessing memory randomly(which edram fixes), exciting steps with branches in order.

Yet open cl was standardized by the Khronos Group. It stands for open computing language. Apple, IBM, intel, nvidia and amd are all a part of this. So no the wiiu will not die too early.

One reason why the wiiu uses html5 is because you can do stuff like webgl.

You guys should look into this stuff. Fanboys and pr did not make this up. This is real. It is coming. It's as big as putting a memory controller on chip, like say edram.

If you want to make a million dollars make a great gpgpu engine that uses open cl to pass work from the CPU to gpu like direct x 11's comput shaders. I think unity 3d has already started on this. Then you can port to pretty much anything and just watch you work scale in performance.

Or you can just call up some friends you went to school with and get some rumors on performance. Since this seems to be more a problem for coders I'm expecting a serious push to make the tools that pay the bills.

Welcome to the reality tv show called game development! Growing pains are greeeeeaaaaaat!

HammadTheBeast1402d ago

Yes but when you have 50 AI just programmed to do one thing, albiet varied timing, it's not the same experience.

N4g_null1402d ago

I've played their games the AI only does one or two things. I see where you are coming from but you could use the matrix to move each pixel and proximity testing for different strikes. A lot like advanced wars yet in real time.

wishingW3L1403d ago (Edited 1403d ago )

Devs are still depending too much on the CPU for these kind of stuff instead of taking advantage of the GPGPU implementations.

This is like the PS3 in its first year all over again when Devs didn't take advantage of the SPE's.

doogiebear1403d ago

The Truth does not = flame-bait. You Nintendo boys will defend Nintendo even if they sold you a used loin-cloth as a console. Then you'd call it next gen too.

N4g_null1403d ago

You are wrong to attack fans that can tell you why they believe in the tech from a tech point of view. Like I said this tech is not right for every thing but lots of games can be vectorized. It's expensive....

CraigandDayDay1403d ago

I think Nintendo just going with 3 Wii Cores instead of something a lot better is going to hurt them in the long run. Sure, it makes backward compatibility super easy but it holds devs. back on creating much better graphically intensive games that the PlayStation 4 and Xbox 720 will have.

showtimefolks1402d ago

I know Nintendo fanboys will click disagree but I would love to now how much time and money was spent on making the gamepad that could have gone towards making a more future proof system.

Don't get me wrong I am exacted about getting to lay Nintendo's 1st pary games in HD but not every developer is hating or Wong yet fans are right?

So every developer that has said something negative about wiiu is hating? Ps3 had issues but that was because or cell beng hard to hard to understand

I will sick to what I have said many times before ps4 and next Xbox will over power the wiiu and will get more 3rd party support than Nintendo like always. Both Sony and ms will look at wiiu launch and system itself and can make huge improvements.

Also this argument about their systems will cost more well I don't think so. They don't have to spend $150 on a gamepad so that can go towards actually improving he specs. Wiiu didn't need any gimmicks, all they had to do was better specs and a regular controller but since this is Nintendo they do take risks.

I see wiiu being in the same position as wii where good 3rd party support early on than oly kids/gimmick games

N4g_null1402d ago

Nothing is future proof. You get 4 years before the refresh. This six year stuff is boring.

vulcanproject1402d ago (Edited 1402d ago )

Meh. Nintendo have definitely made some mistakes. Now they have to try to fix them.

+ Show (9) more repliesLast reply 1402d ago
Chrono1403d ago

Why am I not surprised?

Redempteur1402d ago

Well another third party game that framme drop like crazy on wii U..

ape0071403d ago (Edited 1403d ago )

if a new console has worse framrate than 6 yo ps3 then it is a nightmare imo, i remember a lot of ps2\xbox 1 games on 360 looked better ran better, had more things on screem like NFS most wanted, GUN, burnout revenge,tony hawk American wasteland etc

also on DC from N64, like shadow man, soul revere, tomb raider, vigilant 8, Res 2 and 3 all looked much better and ran @60 FPS

black ops 2 wiiu got worse framrate than both 360 and ps3 according to Lens of Truth

SO the question is, is it bad porting, not build specifically on the system or a weak system ???

admiralvic1403d ago

I think it's a little of everything and then some...

Most of the Wii U titles geared at the "core" community are ports, which were most likely not designed for the Wii U, so they're not as good. Companies also know that their WII U title will not be the highest seller (look at what Activison thought of the Vita...), which in turn resulted in less effort applied. These articles need to die and WAIT till we have some real "proof" over jumping on the hate train.

Too many people are running with these ideas, but fail to give developers a chance to get use to the hardware. Right now we just got a bunch of so so games, which people act like is proof that the system sucks. Maybe if these were Mario U, Pikmin 3, Bayonetta 2 or Rayman Legends I could see the point, but till then... how about we give the system the benefit of doubt here. Not saying you should buy / support it, but I am saying that the attacks are coming too soon.

ape0071403d ago (Edited 1403d ago )

when the wiiu mario game hits the system along with other exclusives, I'd be craaaazy if i did not get one, MUSTTT

also i don't think that those port utilized the GPGPU which i heard is very powerful and can help the processor

for we are many1403d ago

The games you mentioned had a big time gap for developers to improve on them, and they had the advantage of moving from non-HD to HD. But Wii U ports were done quickly to be released in time for the system's launch and to not fall back behind other versions released for Ps3-360 while those games had between 6-5 years of system, engine and coding experience to perfect on the other systems, and even with that results are good.

Then How do you explain lower frame rate for ZoE on Ps3-360, or worse overall graphics and frame rate for MGS 2 on XBOX or the Silent Hill ports bad quality.

I expect a bright future for the system and the new ideas and innovations it introduced like the GamePad& Miiverse (just wait for it, it'll be a standard embraced by other console manufacturers), and predict Nintendo to have their own console cycle time frame.
Just give the Wii U some time and it will soar and will deliver timeless classics, at least from Nintendo.

rdgneoz31403d ago

"o not fall back behind other versions released for Ps3-360 while those games had between 6-5 years of system, engine and coding experience to perfect on the other systems"

This made me think of Black Ops 2's fun PS3 problems... Those devs have not learned a thing except that they can get away with selling a broken game and make millions off of it.

younghavok1403d ago

this is probably the best comment Ive seen on the subject of the consoles power. Its only an issue with Nintendo I guess. I assume that those ports running inferior on the 360 and PS3 means that those two consoles are weaker than the PS2?

How many have played Rayman Legends on the WiiU? That is perhaps the most beautiful game I've ever laid eyes on and it is exclusive to the WiiU. We haven't even seen in game footage of Bayonetta 2 yet. Give it time, the exclusives will be great, just like they were for the Wii

millzy1021403d ago

to he honnest its hard to tell, some devs are having trouble whilst others are not, maybe some understand the architecture more than others or it may not do it.

even if Nintendo only gains 50 percent of third party gamed that get released on New Xbox or ps its more than Nintendo has had in the Wii so it could be them. ill buy Nintendo third party games like alien and cod just to support third part development on a Nintendo, maybe if people buy there games they will release games on there no matter what as it makes money.

I don't think we will see a big improvment for the first few gen per and xboxs games it will be too much off a gamble. probably last of us graphics would be the standard in higher res.

KrisButtar1403d ago

i dont understand why a next gen system would have frame rate problems, because a game is made for say 60fps or 40fps or 30fps, last gen systems have a hard time keeping them at that FPS for some games, but you would think that a next gen system the frame rate would be stable at what it was designed for. port or not

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