Sony have won the HD TV format war. But are Microsoft the real winner here?
By not including an HD optical drive Microsoft could launch much earlier and much cheaper.
Sony, who didn't have these advantages, have thus been so far outperformed and Microsoft Xbox division is making money for the first time.
lol.. This made it through ? Well Anyway. Simple answer : NO Long Answer: They paid paramount some million for them to go exclusive to Toshiba's side and yet Toshiba is still loosing. They will be paying Sony and co for any blu-ray add on that make and sell along side their 360 system. That is by no war a win-win situation for them.
Sony managed so outsell World wide this 360 in calender year 2007. Higher price lack of games...more sales...consumers continually show that they are willing to pay more for a reliable product (Toyota/Honda) and as shown by January sales numbers continue to outsell the 360 in 2008.
The PS3 has a long road ahead of them to regain their market share this generation. I'm not sure if it can get to the point the PS2 was at, but there is no possibility IMHO that it will lose to the 360.
The Wii is in a race of its own.
EDIT: I am pretty sure it was Toshiba that paid Paramount/Universal, not Microsoft. But if you are including Microsoft in the HD DVD group as a whole then you are correct.
LOL I suppose you aren't including the $1 Billion used for defective consoles...
Was Nagasaki a Japanese victory? What kind of backwards logic is this guy trying to use?
This guys last name has to be Nelson to. Maybe he's Private first class Nelson.
It's too early to say whether it's worth it or not, but it wouldn't be wrong to say that if the PS3 did not have a BD drive and launched in 2005 at $400 they would easily be winning this generation right now. Microsoft could be seen has the winner right now but hd-dvd just lost so we won't be seeing an impact instantly. If blu-ray replaces dvd like how that replaced vhs then that would be worth it to sony. Then we can say that if the PS3 only came with a DVD drive it wouldn't been as a huge success.
This is a severe case of rationalization with some denial thrown in for good measure. Microsoft backed the wrong team and they lost. Deal with it and move on.
I agree, the reason Microsoft could never turn out to be the "Real winner" in all of this is because of the simple fact that as soon as the remaining HD-DVD supporters fall back and Blu-Ray "wins" the format war, from that instant forward, the Xbox 360 will automatically be considered as having "dated" hardware. No? And only 2 years after it's conception? How many years will the Xbox 360 survive using only DVD as a standard? The only thing Microsoft can now do is create a new SKU with BD built-in, or create a Blu-Ray add-on. But either way, it wouldn't be the standard, so games wouldn't benefit from such moves. Only people who want to watch Blu-Ray movies on their 360 would benefit. And only if the SKU they have also have an HDMI port. Since you need both Blu-Ray and an HDMI connection to output 1080p video. Correct? Games on the Xbox 360 will not benefit from an add-on. While on the PS3, Blu-Ray is the standard and games can make use of the technology. And that's why Sony should still be considered the winner, no? They made a gamble by taking part in the Blu-Ray format technology, by supporting it, and by making it the standard on the PS3. And they won. No? MS took a different route due to uncertainty of which format would triumph. And they lost the gamble. No? What I would like to know is how long will MS let the 360 linger with just DVD as the standard before releasing the next Xbox which will probably feature Blu-Ray as the standard? 8 more years in order to finish the 10-year life range thing that they always talk about? To me it too seems unlikely...
Quote"By not including an HD optical drive Microsoft could launch much earlier and much cheaper" Yes but look at where it got MS. 1 Huge failure rate with 1 billion set aside for warrenty. 2. It still got outsold by the PS3 in 2007 and now behind the PS3 with regards to next gen obtical drive. How you can deduce a MS victory from these facts puzzles me. Blu winning is Sony winning and the PS3 winning. Fact. Get over it. Move on. Don't try to spin it.
Maybe, maybe not. But as of right now, the PS3 is only about 7 million units behind the 360 in overall sales. And consider that the ps3 is more expensive, came out one year later, and has only been out in Europe for about 10 months now.
Maybe a couple of million in sales to a console that backed Blu-ray, but microsoft have managed to boost digital downloads a bit more and going forward, with a blu-ray backed 360, The PS3 will have less argument for purchase than it did. Toshiba are probably the real looser here.. and all those people who bought into HD-DVD so early on. As for me.. I'll stick to DVD as I said all along, for the next 5+ years before I go 100% digital.
how much do you think MS will cahrge for that BD-Drive. It isn't going to come standard like it does on the cheaper PS3. lol
"I'll stick to DVD as I said all along, for the next 5+ years before I go 100% digital. "
So do you not care for quality or are you that much of a fan boy?
3 years from now your telling me your still gonna watch DVD no matter what kind of tv youve got?
I agree with fenderputty, the blueray addon will probably cost more than what the HD-DVD addon ever did.
it doesn't even need to cost that much more. A 40 gig PS3 with a BD drive is already 100 cheaper than an elite. The 80 gig is even in price. The 40 gig is right there with the Pro model too. Charging an extra 80 dollars, which is still cheap as hell and much cheaper then the HD-DVD drive, puts the 360 into a MUCH higher price range. From now on, unless a gamer is interested in DD, the PS3 will be the right choice for gamers who want HD media as well as games.
They'd likely not go with a second add on.
They'll change the HD-DVD add on to be a Dual-format drive.
And then we can finally stop hearing all this nonsense about MPAA DRM infested disc formats.
'3 years from now your telling me your still gonna watch DVD no matter what kind of tv youve got? ' I happen to have a plasma, and two 32" LCDs with 720p and 1080i. My Hi-fi was 5,000 pounds and the sub was shipped from the states, it's an 18" with 400 watts of power, Now you're not going to tell me that I've not got the kit to watch and enjoy hi-def. Do you know what superbit is? @WageSlave, yep, agreed with you on that.
sony is a winner. Not just PS3 but also HDTV, BR Players etc etc
True, however, i work for an electronics retailer and we sell more Samsung HDTVs than any other, fact.
I dont anyone who'd prefer a LCD TV over a Plasma. Sony only sells LCD, so they're not in the running for HDTVs (for me, I prefer picture quality to price).
Wageslave, if people dont buy LCD screen we wouldnt see it everywhere, companies like Samsung, Pioneer, and even Toshiba aint stupid that they dont know what people dont buy.
@WageSlave There are a couple of reasons to go with LCD over Plasma. Just like vice versa. I know plenty of people who have gone LCD over Plasma. So just because the pros and cons for your situation led to Plasma does not automatically go that way for everyone else. This isn't a personal attack against you in anyway, but many people who sell TV's have the intelligence of a fruit fly about the products. They aren't experts and normally aren't properly informed to top it off. PS: I am really excited about the Kuro Plasmas coming out in a year or two :).
hey wageslave... i prefer lcd over plasma but I live in a very high region of this country.
wage slave said this..."I dont anyone who'd prefer a LCD TV over a Plasma. Sony only sells LCD, so they're not in the running for HDTVs (for me, I prefer picture quality to price)."
Wage your an idiot sony has the xbr line that offers plasma... I work at best buy and our lcd's outsell plasma 10:1. Plasma is really expensive so most adopters are picking up lcd which is just fine for hd content... You blast other people about doing research before commenting, well son you need to take your own advice cause you have alot of pie on your face right now......
I should really track you Wageslave because everything you say is easily rebutted. Plasmas arent good for longetivity, the chemicals inside starts to burn out after a year. Thus, losing quality.
LCDs and plasmas are great by any means. But I prefer my 61" 1080p Samsung DLP. Big, and comparably inexpensive. Works for me.
THE WHOLE INDUSTRY. NOW WE CAN WHOLE HEARTEDLY MOVE INTO THE NEXT GENERATION WITHOUT CONFUSION. q:
Which is, without a doubt, going ot be Digital Distribution.
Half of internet traffic is *already* P2P media distribution traffic. The MPAA and RIAA are going to try and monetize all that traffic, and the winner will be the user: Less expensive (it is competing with Free after all), more convenient, longer-life and on and on.
Its all about Digital Distribution.
Do you know how many people complained about the installation for DMC4? Ok now a HD movie is not only fatter than that but it is being dled through the internet. Unless you have a super high speed internet connection which most people dont and wont get cause the high bill costs each month the dl is going to take a long ass time. So tell me how is it that people are going to switch to digital distribution when many people cant even stand waiting to install something for 20 minutes. Also if Digital distribution cant even replace CDs I cant see how it can replace movies anytime soon.
I crack up reading you posts. It's as if MS emails you a MSWord document and you copy/paste it into your comment. I love it.
Seriously dude, how many people do you need to tell you that their country, not neighborhood, has a download limit? I've read like 8 of those comments just today. The infastructure is not ready.
We have people complain about their 5GB of hard drive space for their games just on this site alone. Imagine if everything had to be downloaded. Is MS going to come out with a 500GB proprietary attachment hdd? Imagine the cost of that.
The world isn't ready for digital distribution (infastructure, hdd space, love of physical media) just yet but some day.
Keyser you hit the nail on the head. Wage Im getting tired of cleaning up the slop you post on this site. To download all of this content you need storage. Something that the 360 cant afford, not only is there a lack of standard HDD but the hard drives are small, unless you buy an elite which is more expensive then the ps3. Sony's console on the other hand has a standard HDD and is easily upgradeable. My personal ps3 has 220 Gigs of storage, I paid $30 bucks for a 160 max drive for my ps3. How much does that 120 gig elite HDD cost? Exactly.
LOL... people seem to be able to spin anything these days....
No because sony own bluray not microsoft
Try reading the article before you reply.
And I second his statement...if you disagree, tell me why?
Why the disagrees? Because it is a ridiculous claim, easily discovered as fiction by even the LITTLEST bit of honest inquiry.
The format was Developed and the intellectual property is owned by the BDA, who has hundreds of members.
I believe Sony owns a very good portion of shares in BD.
Total number of stand alone bluray players in europe is 34,000, HD-DVD is 51,000
However, when you add in PS3 it becomes 3.2 million bluray. But only 2.3 million bluray disks sold.
big production company like Warner's, Disney, MGM etc. don't want to know Which format have sell more stand alone player. but want to know Which HD format sell more films, and the answer is Bluray.
Well that just comes to show that Sony's idea of adding a Blu-Ray player on its PS3 was a good one after all eh?
it took 8 months to sell 1 million blu-ray movies. and another 2 months to sell another million. fast growth huh? cheaper contents and more of it is making this market grow exponentially. now victory is assured growth will be unrestrained. by the end of this year most people who want to go hi-def will be buying blu-ray players. what blu-ray players do you think will gain most? (answer:ps3) what company is going to collect lots of royalties? (answer: sony). what company is one of the largest blu-ray and lcd tv seller in the world? (answer: sony) what company is one of the largest laptop (soon to be blu-ray enabled) seller ? (answer: sony) what company will benefit from not investing in the wrong unsucessful technology and manufacturing process? (answer: sony) what company will benefit from royalties on authoring technology? (answer: sony). what company would have regained public trust and positive pr in backing the right horse? (answer: sony) what company would have slowed down microsoft dominance by introducing bd-j as the trojan interface for home hi-def media? (answer: sony) what company would benefit from royalties for all future bd-r and bd-rw blank media? (answer: sony) what company will help steer the direction of future blu-ray development for it's own advantage? (answer: sony) what company has big movie/tv studios that will benefit from blu-ray being a success? (answer: sony) victory is sweet. insecurity is a dreadful thing - for an old man like you to come into every post about ps3 - it ain't normal.. pyrrhic victory my ass
user base my friend.
Not unless they're cheering for Sony. If they are then I guess they won!
While DVD lowers in price, Blu-Ray keeps the cost of disc and movies high. How many times do you wan't to buy the same freaking game because it's scratches?
what?...Do you know how hard it is to ruin a BD game or movie?...its the 360 that chews up discs dude...I have no idea what you are talking about... or are you one of 'those' that still thinks DL HD movies will be the norm by the end of the decade?
ahahaha, you mindless DD fanboi.
That's right industry! Screw me in the ass so I can't loan, sell or trade my PHYSICAL product! I'm too dumb and clumbsy to keep my discs from being scratched beyond playability! Sell me a big expensive HDD that will eventually crap out, destroying my entire library!!! I LOVE IT!!!
I have never bought a 2nd disc of any format, ever. AND, since we are talking about BD, which is the most scratch damage resistant disc ever made.
Get outta here with your DD crap. We don't need to hear your stupid crying on every BD topic. You are just a butt hurt whiny little Xbot. Nothing more.
Squeal PIG. SQUEAL!! AHHAHAHAHAA!
Microsoft has made it loud and clear that they are targeting people who are connected. This is the age of everything media, delivered with the use of a disc. IPTV, Live, Amazon, NetFlix, Steam, DSL, broadband cable, mobil broadband, video on demand, Divx, MP3, cell and Tivo. There is no more need for a cheap plastic disc, if your "connected". I have two laptops, a PC, Macbook, cable, Tivo, three MP3 players, and two cell phones working in complete harmony with my 2 Xbox 360's. I have absolutly "zero" need for a disc, even DVD is dead to me.
Where you are now is where everyone is heading.
Which makes Sony's actions using the PS3 as a Trojan horse for Blu-ray look even less bright.
Theirs is a phyrric victory.
You must be really bored when your internet goes out.
internet distribution is needs more years to start.
Although my cable lines run underground so it never goes out, but my power lines are still above ground. Can't do anything about mother nature, she's pretty mean somtimes.
@CRIMS0N_W0LF "internet distribution is needs more years to start." Sorry bro, it's already started. As I stated above, I have "Zero" need for disc and that means now as in "right now". I get everything I need and more, only thing I'm waiting for are the games, and MS and Steam has already started that with Xbox Originals/arcade and Steam's downladable games. "Internet distribution" has been here for years, but now the ball is rolling. Most every tech gadget is now connected, it's just the way it is and it's only going higher.
Im sorry but comparing Lives movie downloads (or anyother DD provider) to Blu-ray is stupid, compressed 720p/audio to 1080p uncompressed. The difference is massive.
And yes i own both systems so im not being biased.
Dude you said DVD is dead to you? Come on get real here your box needs dvd for game you butt, so don't say its dead to you. Please tell me how many games you got by downloading them, Or is any new games or movies you can get?
as are a lot of people who frequent this site but, the masses are not connected as you put it. A lot of people aren't comfortable with the idea of DD or storage of that data. BD is taking off faster than DVD did and, the war has ended at a much faster pace then VHS/Betamx. While I think DD will play a role this gen, I don't think it's going to have the impact you think it will. Sure ... BD might not ever become as standard as DVD did because of DD but, by no means will it be a failure as far as formats are concerned.
idiot american. not everyone lives in american a lot of countirs in eu have internet around 5 mpbs with download limit. how can i download an hd movie if i have 2 mpbs internet with 20 GB download limit per 30 days?
we're talking about digital downloads on console, right? movies/games/music etc...x360 doesn't have a 'warhawk' equivilent full game and can't cause of restrictions. Am I wrong? GT prolouge's coming soon as well, if not already availible from japan store. But more importantly some x360 sku's don't even have a harddrive. So who's built the best foundation, basically which one is more suited as a Digital download platform?
for movies, music, games, etc?
Ps. purely rumour I read on some forum but is it true that Sony and co built cell around streaming? and Microsoft built a more general purpose cpu, erego, streaming wise that cell will anialiate not just the x360 but every other chip on the market. is this true? is the cell really good at streaming stuff in parralel and that it was made to co-operate with other cells?
If this is true, Sony really did think ahead. big time. IPTV on Ps3 could be just the start, couldn't it?
360 has many full games, like Fable, Halo, Black, Ninja Gaiden and more. Infact there are more full games available on the 360 than the PS3, even a Final Fantasy game. Thats not including arcade.
are you for real?
context mean anything?
if you are real, you do know you just pwned yourself, right?
I'm an American and I feel your pain. I don't have a download limit but I do know how slow that ish can still be. DD is still quite a bit of ways off. There are people here who don't have broadband.
Don't let the smooth taste fool you.
Ps3 within the first year had more games than 360 did just so you know.
No, HDi is not going to be used anymore in Formats.
hahahahahaaahahhahaahahah.... What a complete joke. Gotta love ol' Bruce... Isn't that Bruce, by the way? That guy kills me. Yeah, it's a huge win for Microsoft... Forget the "Actual" backers of the format. Those guys are all losers.
you have to admit...it must have required extreme concentration to sift through all the 2007 ending/2008 beginning news, and come to the conclusion that the PS3 is in serious trouble...and why do these self-proclaimed experts always miss what happened in the past?...his comments on the PS2 and losing the market could not be more blatantly incorrect...the Playstation brand overall is stronger than its ever been...
Did you see Brucey's post about deleting any post when someone calls him names? He deleted my post and all I said was I asked if he's really that stupid. I just posted again that since he was in marketing he must be a Micrsoft shill. He's just spouting more of their crap.
Someone should tell Brucey to put up another photo. That photo makes him look gay. Of course, maybe he is.
Him saying he was going too delete the offending posts reminded me of a old man who gets mad when you walk on his lawn....I laughed my ass off..
Blu-Ray is but one of the many Sony victories we will witness this year, Bruce, you unclean chimp! MWAH-HA-HA-HA!!!