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Submitted by Dailynch 617d ago | news

Wii U 'Has A Horrible, Slow CPU' Says Metro Last Light Dev

NowGamer: Wii U's tech specs aren't as impressive as initially thought and 4A Games won't be bringing Metro: Last Light to Nintendo's new console. (4A Games, Metro 2033: Last Light, Wii U)

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NYC_Gamer  +   617d ago | Intelligent
4A games wouldn't make up bull shit when it comes to hardware specs.
decrypt  +   617d ago | Intelligent
That's one developer that doesn't provide lip service :P

@bicfiness

We know the CPU is worse.

When you consider the GPU, realise for a GPU to flex its muscles no matter how powerful, it needs Memory bandwidth.

After yesterdays corrected reports Wii U only sports 12GB/s Memory bandwidth, which is pathetic really.

GTX 680 is about the best GPU on the market right now. For those of you that have the luxury of owning one, you could install MSIafterburner and downclock the Memory speed, No need to touch the GPU Speed. You will see the 680GTX brought to its knees.

Bottomline is no matter how powerful a GPU is without memory bandwidth it will be starved waiting for the next set of data to come, till then it will just sit there wasting cycles. Hence regardless of whatever GPU the Wii U has, i do not see how it can overcome the memory bandwidth issue. It might peddle along with the current gen consoles, but come next gen Wii U will be in trouble.
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bicfitness  +   617d ago
I don't know why you're schooling me, as I already stated that "everything else was worse". Or maybe I'm just misreading your tone. The memory bandwith is as abysmal as the rest of this hardware design.
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darthv72  +   617d ago | Well said
if memory serves
SNES had a slow cpu as compared to the genesis. And yet we were treated to such games like DK country.

Bottom line, speed as we know and love it is not relative to actual efficiency. That is why cpu companies like AMD and Intel sort of changed the selling point to how much their cpu's can do rather than how fast.

I have often heard it explained like this. Which is more efficient? Having 10 workers at a steady pace or 2 that are really fast.

The 10 can do more work in the same amount of time or less than the 2 that are having to run around and cover.

When companies started introducing multicore cpus is when the actual "speed" began to slow because now the workload could be spread over the multiple cores. And the amount of power and heat could be reduced.

Speed goes down but efficiency goes up. People are thinking nintendo is trying to surpass MS and Sony. That is an obvious thought but in reality Nintendo looking to continue the trend of surpassing themselves.

We consumers are pitting each company against each other but on the company side they know their biggest competition is their own product line.

@decrypt & bicfitness. Why do people think of these systems in the PC sense? I understand their performance is and development are more akin with PC but their design is intended to reduce as much bottleneck as possible.

Reducing the number of traces and getting away from a split design and more inline with an all inclusive design adds to the efficiency. The example of a PC gpu / cpu is understandable for PC's. Consoles are closed nature and dont follow the same guidelines.

So wouldnt it be sufficient to say that because of the nature of consoles, the PC way of thinking just doesnt work?
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bicfitness  +   617d ago
Darth, maybe you missed the part where its three enhanced broadway (Wii CPUs) stapled together. Bad CPU is bad. The low speed only adds to its fail. This isn't some genius, new-age, multi-threaded design, its a PPU core, which NO ONE uses anymore on account of its inefficiency.
-Superman-  +   617d ago
Why should i buy Wii U, when i already have Xbox 360 and PS3?

Wii U has so much less players(multiplayer), grahpic is kinda same, game they release are already released and already played on X360 or PS3. Also, it dosent have hard drive and blu-ray player. Also, X360 and PS3 are cheaper too.

Its like i re-buy new PS3 plus 100 euros for having some exclusive games that look same as ps3 or xbox 360, when next year we going to have new ps4 and x720. NO REASON AT ALL
kopicha  +   617d ago
and i think people are also forgetting that it needs to power 2 screens simultaneously. especially if someone is going to make something fancy to be displayed on the gamepad screen along with what is already on the big screen. the GPU will definitely struggle a little there with that given memory bandwidth. dont get me wrong. i do not hate Wii U. still have plans to get one later when there are games that actually interest me compare to the current line ups. too little reason to go for it now from a PS3 + 360 owner. but from technical standpoint, it is clear this isn't next gen. More like an upgraded Wii with a different innovation with it's controller.

@darthv72
as much as I would want to try to agree with you. but your DK theory there is not a worth comparison. unless i remembered wrongly, the game uses SA1 chip onboard of the game to improve the graphics capability. So you are talking about the already "slow" cpu but addon with a secondary co processor of something to improve the game visually. much like how you need the memory pak in order to play majora's mask on N64 with an exception that SA1 is build within the cartridge rather than something you need to purchase separately like the memory pak. from PCs standpoint, I do not disagree that GPU usually plays a more important part than CPU when come to gaming performance. but during all these years, consoles kinda make this theory not very true in a way. computers are upgradable. but consoles ain't. developers tend to have to use both the cpu and gpu in a more efficient way than those developers trying to develop on PCs. since consoles have stagnant hardware. where a weak cpu on Wii U can actually pose a problem in long run. take a look at some of the best looking console games out there like Uncharted, Heavy Rain, Last of Us and God of War and etc.. it is known that 360 has a more powerful GPU than PS3 but yet not a single 360 game actually reach the fidelity on those visuals from the games mentioned. so imo... good GPU theory still stands for PC gaming. but in consoles, you can't depend on GPU alone. both are just equally important
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T900  +   617d ago
Nintendo better hope the casuals bite this one, they just might have a hard sell on their hands. With gaming PCs 8-10 times as powerful selling around 500usd.

PS3 and Xbox 360 both simular in power but selling cheaper having a much bigger community and establish online.

Dont see how this will work for Nintendo.
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darx  +   617d ago
@ Darth, I'd take the two workers, it's better on my bottom line.
bozebo  +   617d ago
Memory bandwidth isn't the issue: graphical resources can be cached in eDRAM (which will be significantly faster than the 360 or PS3's RAM - it's right on the substrate with the CPU and GPU), you can't make direct comparisons to PC hardware there. Think of eDRAM as the equivalent of VMEM in PC graphics cards - except it won't have the capacity to store all the resources at once so they have to be switched a few times each frame (this is where it's heavy on RAM but nowhere near as slow as accessing the RAM directly from the fragment shaders)

The Wii-U is probably capable of better graphics than the 360 or PS3 (shaders units are newer and hence more feature complete and numerous) but due to what 4A are saying about the CPU, it wont be able to compute complicated physics and AI at the same time so it will miss out on a lot of multiplats.
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Kingnichendrix  +   616d ago
I think you are behind in times the gtx690 is much more powerful than the 680 twice as powerful almost
StanSmith  +   616d ago
Are we all talking about the same dev here?

Metro 2033 was poorly optimised. So anything these guys say, I'll take with a pinch of salt.
DeadlyFire  +   616d ago
Nintendo is banking all of its money on the GPGPU to make up for the CPU power.

Its a complicated and new way to program things I believe, but when people learn to use it their way it could see much better than expected results, but I am doubtful CPU + GPGPU power will push games to a higher level than PS3/X360 with Physics, and AI capabilities and any other CPU heavy tasks. Doesn't mean we won't see a few great titles in its lifetime though. If any previous generation with less power has given you a game you love then its likely this one might as well at some point.

AMD could have given them an APU like AMD Llano and it would have been 100 times better for WiiU.

Only time will tell if developers can find an efficient way to utilize GPGPU+CPU power. Whatever amount there is under there.
fatstarr  +   616d ago
oh so now pc gaming specs and terminology matter on a n4g article?
Because when its a PS3 article about graphics and some one just happens to mention a pc its disagree central and everyone is put into a state of delusion...

shaking my head, when its a Nintendo thing its all agrees.

people are so fake man, I don't get why the hate for Nintendo runs so deep. Nintendo will make due with its hardware, its the beginning of the generation, if the zelda tech demo was anything they will splash that Nintendo magic and make it work.

-Mario Galaxy 2
-Mario Galaxy
-Monster Hunter 3
-The Last Story
-Xenoblade Chronicles
-Tatsunoko vs Capcom
-Twilight Princess
-Skyward Sword
-Rayman Origins
-Muramasa
-Sonic and the Black night + Colors

all visually impressive especially when you think of whats pulling it off, (the "inferior" specked wii)I cant wait to see the results of the wiiu come 2 years from now( don't dare forget the clay looking games from the 360's launch)

Remember "its about the studio, the engine and the time invested into making that platform shine" or at least that's what the fans of the hdtwins say. when it comes to the wii u though, automatically its specs this and that.

FYI friendly reminder 2x 260gtx and a quad core pretty much blow the 360 and the ps3 out of the water.

and call your self's hypocrites if you call out the wiiu( when its using all of these does all these graphics tricks that the ps3/360 are currently using) when its going against ps4/720 . also its really a generation leap from wii to wiiu
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Bladesfist  +   616d ago
@King the GTX690 is not a GPU it is a graphics card containing two GTX 680 GPUS. That's like me saying that 2 PS3s are more powerful than one.
Sanquine90  +   616d ago
Conclusion: Ninty just want so sell us a console as cheap as possible... ANd have profit:P But because the screen is expensive ( OF the gamepad) even then they sale at a loss.
Muerte2494  +   616d ago
I agree with Darthv72
You can't simply look a a console as a PC. People were laughing at Sony's memory bandwith yet ps3 has some of the most visually stunning games this gen. Also XBox360 cpu isn't as fast as the Cell in ps3, but Halo 4 is graphically intense and maintains it's 30fps throughout the game. I just think this is the case of not enough manpower. Also it's not like it can't be done, this is just another case of market share developers. I think they're looking at the time and money that would go into it. It's an unnecessary expense when Wii U's market share is in it's infancy. But I'm 100% certain Wii U can run it with little to no problems.
bicfitness  +   617d ago
They've (neogaf and Beyond 3D) have pegged it as a triple core, enhanced broadway chip - the same CPU found in the Wii.

The GPU is moderately better than last gen consoles, but everything else is worse except maybe disc read speed.

Kinda pathetic no matter which way you slice it.

Only Nintendo can get away with this crap. That's like Apple releasing a new phone with an A3 chip in it and an SD screen - they would be murdered.
Abdou23  +   617d ago
If Apple did that it will sell like crazy, fanboys are blind.
SkullBlade169  +   617d ago
Apple DOES get away with it, check out how powerful their macs are vs similar priced high end PCs...

Many people still try to say they're better.
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darthv72  +   617d ago
is there something wrong
with the broadway design initially? It certainly got the job done for the wii so the idea of enhancing it for the wii-u seems the most logical.

It isnt like they took the same chip and made it faster. they took the chip and tripled it and made it faster.

so unless there was something completely wrong with the original idea behind broadway to begin with, there shouldnt be any reason to think this new super broadway is bad.

i know this has nothing to do with the PS3 but there have been many that say sony should keep the cell and improve on it for the ps4. If they did, would that not be the same case for them as it seems to be for nintendo?

It certainly makes sense from a cost perspective.
bicfitness  +   617d ago | Intelligent
PPU is an awful, dated architecture - particularly the 7XX variant that the Wii and Wii U are using. What aren't you gettting, Darth? Not only that, but its underclocked to all Hell to keep heat and power consumption down. The average Nokia cell phone has a better - significantly better - CPU, and I'm not exaggerating.

I'm out of bubbles, and I don't think you understand the chip very well, so read up on PPU architecture and the Wii chip and you'll understand a bit better.
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kopicha  +   617d ago
@darthv72

not that I have a problem with you. but you do make yourself sound like Apple die hard follower. Maybe you should take a look at how fast Apple discontinue their iPad3 and release a new one. If there is nothing wrong, they should have stick to their standard time line in replacing their hardware. Remember how they brag that it is 3x faster than Tegra. Yet a 6 months life span? Something that work previously does not mean it will work again.
metroid32  +   617d ago
Then how an earth is black ops on wiiu in720p and gamepad on release with better textures and framerate shadows an lighting all on day 1 its because the power is in the gpgpu it hardly needs a cpu to make next gen games you coul say with wiiu having a cpu quite powerful is a bonus when the gpgpu takes care of mostly everything.

Its why randy pithford says the wiiu is a proper next gen system its just more powerful END OF.It supports UE4/CE3/Unity4/Retros new engine Hmmmmmm It can handle Metro with 10% of that GPGPU alone and the ram.
cyhm3112  +   616d ago
the GPU isn't moderately better than last gen's, it just have more edrams, it is actually worse.
darthv72  +   616d ago
@kopicha
i didnt even know apple fans had a particular sound to them.

i guess you could apply your logic to any type of fan. including star wars fans (to which i am). As every movie that comes out (good or bad) i have to see otherwise i cant really call myself a fan.

I can voice my concerns after but I have to do myself justice and at least see the movies for myself.

Now as to what a company does, that is their own thing and by no means are you obligated to follow them for every thing they do. That is personal choice. although I did say i am a fan of SW so i do follow that. go figure.

The lifespan of Pc hardware used to be something like over a year between cpu and graphic chip releases. then it became a competition to see who could get to 1000MHz first and it was AMD. So naturally you had similar competitions between chip makers like 3dfx and ATI and nvidia.

so yeah the 6mo cycle as it relates to Pc hardware....way more common than your example of apple and their ipad. By the time i save up to get a great graphics card for my pc it is now a so-so because it has been surpassed by something else within the 6-12mo time frame.

Its like the analogy of a new car. The second you drive it off the lot it is now lost its value. So when these consoles go into the R&D they are probably pretty good. Up until launch day then they are considered slow and outdated.
Computersaysno  +   616d ago
Nintendo may as well have stuck a modern ARM processor in there to be honest. If it is really just a triple core overclocked version of Wii's CPU then it is a piece of crap relative to modern designs.

Nintendo properly cheaped out here. They could have chosen literally any CPU design they wanted. Any ARM, any AMD x86. Any of IBM's modern parts.

But no. They looked at the ancient chip inside Wii and decided to trick it out with some wheel spinners and chrome paint and put it alongside a DX10 class GPU.

Muppets.
smoothdude  +   616d ago
Its called the iPad mini! LMFAO.
bigfish  +   617d ago
.
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shivvy24  +   616d ago
agreed
user3389875   616d ago | Spam
Persistantthug  +   617d ago | Funny
The Wii U(nderpowered).

Sorry...couldn't resist.
:P
#1.4 (Edited 617d ago ) | Agree(72) | Disagree(10) | Report | Reply
zebramocha  +   617d ago
Dude!that's hella funny.
nirwanda  +   617d ago
They should have named it the wii
. .
n
With the amount of people unhappy with the specs but nintendo will do what they always do and make unique games you cant play anywhere else, and will do unique things with the screen.
I bet the first add on to the controller will a camera for augmented reality around the house.
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Sp1d3ynut  +   616d ago
Or...The Wii U (fell for it AGAIN).
CryingFreeman87  +   617d ago
If you read the article it sounds like they haven't even tried to develop for the Wii U. They clearly haven't got any dev kits and the way they say they had an "early look" suggests they didn't think it was worth all the extra work to port this title to the Wii U. They've obviously already done some dev work on the PS/360 versions and havent got the man power/skill to develop with a new console at the same time. So maybe they're not the sort to BS, but it really doesn't help if all you look at is the headline. There's always more to the story and considering how many studios say that Wii U is powerful I would say they're just making excuses for not broadening their demographic.
Megaplaynate  +   616d ago
You could also say that the devs saying the Wii U is powerful, are actually saying that so people buy the console. You wouldn't speak bad about a new console you are developing for.
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Rivitur  +   616d ago
They actauly listed metro on the Wii U at 2011 e3 but then after some research into the tech they decided to scratch the project so the only THQ game to release on the wii u was darksiders 2.
-Superman-  +   617d ago
You can have most powerful video/grahpic card on world, and have 12GB ram, but if CPU is slow and bad, then machine is not so powerful.

Im really interested to see what happens to Wii U, when PS4 and X720 comes out.

Wii won war by having cheapest console, and something new, but Wii U, is nothing special really, just a little bit upgrade grahpic, but it will be outdated when next year we see new console/consoles.
wishingW3L  +   616d ago
This is not the 90's anymore. GPUs these days are the most important part on a PC, even more so than the CPU. Having a good CPU is only important when you're dependant on an integrated card alone.

Depending on how powerful the GPU on the Wii U is devs will have to program GPGPU implementations to make up for the weak CPU like it has been happening on the PC front for quite some time now. But it has to be a pretty powerful GPU though.
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kopicha  +   616d ago
@wishingW3L

sorry I have already covered that portion earlier. your GPU more important than CPU theory unfortunately maybe applicable for PCs but not consoles. I wouldn't want to waste my time repeating the lengthy post. Maybe you should scroll up and re-read what I said.
profgerbik  +   616d ago
Thank you someone who realizes the importance of a CPU.

I mean I am not trying to be an ass if you like the games on Wii U have at it.

I am just more of a hardware whore now that I have become older and to me I like to make sure I have the fastest, most powerful and functional gadgets around.

Mainly cause I am broke, if I could spend money and just toss it around I guess I would have everything.. but that is not the case and I have to be picky.

I also don't really like much of what the Wii U has to offer so that is just my personal taste.
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user3389875   616d ago | Spam
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Trago1337  +   617d ago
Wow, this comment section is unbelievable. If anyone here only plans on owning a Wii U for the next generation of games, then you SHOULD be worried about the specs.

For the rest of you who weren't even planning on getting the thing, or plan on having multiple platforms next gen, grow up.

We've known that the Wii U wouldn't be a powerhouse for a VERY long time now. Why does this news come as some stunning revelation to most of you? The majority of you guys in the comments have already stated that you'll own a ps4 or 720, so WHO cares about the specs?

i'm getting it for Exclusives, like most of the people here, NOT multiplats, so Specs are IRRELEVANT.
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Slapshot82  +   616d ago
I think it stems from the fact that Nintendo recently came out stating, "The Wii U is absolutely starting the next generation of home consoles."
dredgewalker  +   616d ago
I'm not against the Wii U but Nintendo is now more open to 3rd party developers and if it is really a bit underpowered then it won't do well with new games. Then again developers these days aren't aiming for too much graphical improvements since development costs also become higher with better graphics. In the end we can only wait and see.
kopicha  +   616d ago
@Trago1337

well for whatever reason. I think it is right for people to have concern be it already own one or planning to or even if they do not. Every release of a system can directly / indirectly affect how the next gen would be. Also would you expect Apple to replace their iPad in 6mths given to their iDevices track record? What if Nintendo did the same thing? No that I am saying Nintendo would abandon the Wii U for whatever reason especially given that it just got release. But what I am trying to put across is that there is nothing wrong with people having concern be it they are coming from which direction. It is not a matter of growing up or not.
The_Infected  +   616d ago
This is coming from a graphical boundary pushing developers so of coarse they will say that since it's true for what they want.

Lets put it this way if Nintendo made th Wii U with the tablet controller, a real powerful CPU and GPU, and tons of memory it would've been probably $600+ and for most out there today that would've been a stupid move since most wouldn't want to pay that much. Nintendo focuses on the experience over anything and we all know that and it works look at the Wii success. The Wii U will offer a great experience that's fun without a huge price.

Also the games for the next Xbox and PS4 are gonna cost 2x to 5x more to produce according to Developers. Nintendo avoided this. It will cost Developers so much more either it will hurt them or they will charge more than $60 for the games just to break even. You have to wonder what really is the best way to move forward. All graphics or the experience. Maybe a little of both.

Edit: and for the fake bandwidth rumor.

UPDATE RUMOR 2: Bandwidth speed. http://site.gamingallthetim...

"Currently there are some news articles floating around saying the bandwidth for the Wii U is 17gb/s. They are basing this on the DDR3 memory frequency. This is again an incomplete truth, you cannot determine the bandwidth with memory speed without knowing how fast the controller handles it to the CPU/GPU. Also eDRAM isn’t even included in the equation, the real bandwidth is about 30+gb/s with everything factored in. Opening up the console and reading a line on the memory does not give an accurate estimation."
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scissor_runner  +   616d ago
True it's slow yet these guys are the new crytek. They don't really run optimized code they run high end code for certain cards only inorder to use brand new visual tech that frankly needs more from the CPU.

The true speed of the CPU is an i3 vs Celeron moment. You will understand when the pushing starts but just for a taste. We have ps3, x360 code running on a chip way slower after watching these chips push out 4ghz.

Plus games don't need all of that speed and power in the CPU, they need a balance going toward bandwidth and gpu. The bandwidth is a good guess so far.

The ps2 used the same idea.

Hopfully the other two do not over shoot tech wise. Just like the ps2 you must meet current trends in content creation verse price of production of said content.
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Bladesfist  +   616d ago
"They don't really run optimized code they run high end code for certain cards only inorder to use brand new visual tech that frankly needs more from the CPU."

Have you ever wrote code in your life?

You can change your data types, reduce iteration and assignment as much as possible but you cannot magically make your code run on weak hardware without going further than optimization to the point of hacking at it with an axe.
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scissor_runner  +   616d ago
Yep I've wrote code before. If you want to write optimized code you need to fully understand the compiler and the bottlenecks of the system. It is safe to say these guys have never wrote code for a true CPU/gpu setup. Simply put some silicon actually has routines hardwired into the chip. You simply provide the values or the data.

You can emulate hardware or use the hardware provided. That is the true difference of optimizing... Which is where differed rendering stepped in or shader tech was moved off the CPU to the gpu. It is more than just data types. If it wasn't then I wouldn't mind being a coder lol. Once the middleware addresses the problem things will be fine.

The only difference is few had pushed the boardway that hard. People like factor 5 are needed here.

Like just think... There is a compression call in the kit. It does not work automatically. You have to go into your triangle setup and drop that compression tech in. If it isn't done early then that free compression will kill your CPU.

Just look at epics code running on high end pc before unreal 3. Suddenly they had spline deformers when they simply had problems transforming vertices in their last engine. Yet thanks to code that was setup with the hardware in mind they suddenly have this cool new trick.

I'm not saying the wiiu is a beast but it can hang right in there thanks to current tech and graphic designers. Please understand, there is no way a ps3 or xbox360 can display what a real pc game can right now for even the mid range. Yet no one wants to program or create art for it because it could potientialy bankrupt you.

The power race is a double edge sword. Gaming or console gaming only flirts with that so the wii u will be fine. After black ops two no one wants to playing in the waters of a 500 million dollar whale. You will get crushed.
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Bladesfist  +   615d ago
I disagree with using the word unoptimized in this case as you generally optimize for a target audience and that is what they did. Really high end computers. I'm not sure what you are getting at with your talk on optimization techniques when we do not have access to there source code and can not tell what they have or have not done.
Donnieboi  +   616d ago
The Wii-U is underwhelming. I'm waiting for 720 and PS4
WrAiTh Sp3cTr3  +   617d ago
There you have it folks.
I can believe them.. 4A rocks!! on pc anyway..

If they don't know anything they know how to push hardware. So I will take take their word for it since they are awsome nerds.

All the nvidia physx in the trailer was awsome.

Incoming inevitable hate for 4A for telling the truth.

@1upgamer99 below

try reading the article.

" In an interview with CVG, Yerli said Wii U is "minimum on par with the current generation.""

http://www.ign.com/articles...
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kopicha  +   617d ago
actually I do believe in 4A's statement. At least I know they are creditable with their knowledge. I remember how Metro make my old laptop struggle but it still run incredibly great in both look and fps on 360.
Knight_Crawler  +   617d ago
Being a die hard Nintendo gamer from the NES days this really makes me sad.

The Game Cube was a let down and Wii was the final x for me but I said you know what maybe Nintendo can find it in there heart as ask us loyal fans from day 1 for forgiveness and redeem there self with an high powered spec console but the Wii U is nothing more than a Wii.5

The sad part about this is that it will sell millions becuase the casual market will eat it up:(

Well Nintedno thanks for the memories but my respect for you is gone and I will make sure that my kids kids kids...do not by a console from you ever.
jony_dols  +   617d ago
I wouldn't mind but the Gamecube was a relatively powerful console for it's time. I remember being blown away when I first saw Resi 4 in action!

Then Nintendo managed to capture a large portion of the largely untapped casual market with the Wii, which gave them a license to shamelessly sell under-powered hardware at the same price as the Microsoft's 360 core bundle.

However since then, iOS & Android have eroded most of their market share. And they've come crawling back to the hardcore fanbase with their 'new', already outdated hardware that will no doubt be easily outstripped by the 360 & PS3's successors in the next 18 months.

I can see the Wii U being the next Dreamcast, a product that initially sold well, but suffered an identity crisis & was eventually lost between console generations.
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darthv72  +   617d ago
what was it about...
the cube that let you down? i ask because as it relates to the n64, the cube was a significant step up. We all know the wii was an enhanced cube but that is the nature of evolutionary upgrades.

Snes was a better NES. Genesis was a better Master system. PS2 was a better ps1 and so on. All of these consoles since the 2600 (pong doesnt count as it was a single platform/game) have been evolutionary instead of revolutionary.

The revolutionary changes in gaming have come from instances of breaking the traditional ways of gaming. such as going from carts to optical or more recently the way we play with more interactive controls instead of traditional ones.

Gaming has never been an exclusive club but so many seem to think it was or should be.
fatstarr  +   616d ago
Gamecube
wii=2.5 gamecubes
wiiu= 10wiis

Nintendo made the casual market,if they didn't exist the industry would be belly up because only they would buy the trashy games that they buy. or the mainstream cookie cut fps's

Nintendo gots this mayne. you think a company with over 1 billion ltd total combined software sales will go out with out a fight...

priming up the next gen of kids to become potential customers 10 years from now is what nintendo is doing.
Dailynch  +   617d ago | Well said
And that's all the evidence I need. Cancel my pre-order. Bye-bye Wii U.
esemce  +   617d ago
I cancelled mine on Sunday, I will wait for a big price cut and some actual decent 3d games like Zelda, Galaxy, Metroid, FZero.

Or in future if Dolphin can emulate it we can just buy the gamepad.
chadboban  +   617d ago
But if you pre-ordered, wouldn't you have gotten it already? Seeing that the console was released 2 days ago and all. I never pre ordered a console before so if you could explain how that works, I'd appreciate it.
live2play  +   617d ago
im not saying i believe him
he prolly never pre ordered

BUT the wii u came out in the US not everywhere else..so he can be from the uk i guess
LiViNgLeGaCY  +   617d ago
Well, actually, if he pre-ordered it from a retail store, that doesn't mean he has to pick it up right? So he can just cancel his pre-order, get the money back or put it towards something else right?
SnipeySnake  +   616d ago
Thought that if you preordered and they didn't have enough they would put you on a waiting list...least thats what happened to my friend.
josephayal  +   617d ago
that sounds like a good idea
1upgamer99  +   617d ago
Okay well again Gearbox says the Wii U IS powerful. Much better than PS3 and 360. http://www.nintendolife.com...
http://www.eurogamer.net/ar...
So can someone please explain how Gearbox says this, and also how come Crytek Says this.
http://www.ign.com/articles...
I just don't get it.
Jinkies  +   617d ago
Yeah Gearbox is developing a game for it...they arn't going to bad mouth the console when they want Aliens CM to do just as well on there as the PS3/360 version...more platforms, means more sales, more sales means more money. If they said something bad about the Wii U then people would just stick to the PS3/360 versions and I'm guessing they would be cheaper aswell.

I guess the same goes for Crytek aswell, they probably have a curent gen game un announced being ported to the Wii U.

It's all about money at the end of the day.
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1upgamer99  +   617d ago
It is one thing for Gearbox to support the Wii U, but it is another for them to say the game will look and run better on Wii U due to the newer Tech. Why would Gearbox not just say something like, the Wii U version will look and run just the same as the other ports with added gamepad features.
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jony_dols  +   617d ago
@1upgamer99:

At the end of the day, Nintendo did skimp on the hardware. The Wii U may be slightly more powerful than the 360/PS3, but is it really that much of an achievement in 2012 to marginally best technology that dates back to 2006?

Hell even my 11-inch M11X netbook from 2010 kills the Wii U in terms of specs!
neogeo  +   617d ago
Umm but your logic fails because Crytek has no WiiU game in developerment confirmed.

2. They said Aliens will look best on WiiU why would that be a lie? When the game comes out they would look like liars if not true.

If they wanted to stealth lie about the WiiU's power they would have said it like this.

"We are excited to bring Aliens to WiiU. With unique features we will add to the gamepad and as for the graphics it will be looking beautiful on all 3 consoles." <---see? They would beat around the bush if they thought WiiU was underpowered. In fact. saying it will look best on WiiU could lose them money by not giving credit to ps3/360.
Jinkies  +   617d ago
@neogeo

and you obviously havent read my comment properly

"but your logic fails because Crytek has no WiiU game in developerment confirmed."

As I said above in my original comment

"they probably have a curent gen game un announced"

Keywords = Probably and Unannounced

"They said Aliens will look best on WiiU why would that be a lie? When the game comes out they would look like liars if not true"

I didn't say they were lying about how well it looks, I just said they are lying about how poweful it is, making it sound like it will be on the same level as the PS4/720
vulcanproject  +   617d ago
It is the CPU. Wii U has a superior, more modern GPU than 360 and especially PS3. It is a fully unified part, at least a generation ahead of them.

However the CPU seems to be incredibly small, absolutely miniscule in fact next to the GPU. Usually you want all the money to be spent on the GPU and a less powerful CPU is not such a biggy, but the disparity appears to be really quite enormous.

For example 360's CPU is about half the number of transistors of its GPU, and the CELL in PS3 is nearly as big as RSX. In Wii U it appears that the GPU could be as much as 5-6 times larger.... http://images.tweaktown.com...

This has lead to rumours that Wii U's CPU actually derives from the Wii, which itself is derived from the gamecube. MORE than 10 year old architecture and technology.

Ok so the word on the street says IBM has probably massaged it a bit, made it multicore and pumped the clockspeeds. However it is fairly obvious that it would still be a pretty archaic architecture and underpowered weak spot of the machine. Somewhat unbalanced compared to its far more modern GPU counterpart.

This would certainly explain dev comments about the distinct lack of CPU performance from Wii U.

It probably won't cripple the machine, but it is likely to be a very limiting factor on games that rely on a bunch of CPU performance, like RTS for example. If you want a lot of enemies or units and so make more CPU calls in a game, then Wii U is gonna be hit hard.
#4.2 (Edited 617d ago ) | Agree(22) | Disagree(11) | Report | Reply
medziarz  +   617d ago
Sony i'd guess has a tradition to make their CPUs as big (transistor-wise) as their GPUs, i think the Vita follows that trend
neogeo  +   617d ago
They already did this on tom's hardware. I will look for the article it later. Anyway they took the worst dual core AMD that is old and junk and put in a beast graphics card. Next they took a top of the line overclocked to 4.4 ghz intel i7 and put in a average GPU inside. Guess what won? The shitty CPU with the good graphics card DESTROYED the i7 in every test. I'm talking 30-40 fps better. So at the end of the day it's the GPU that counts. throw in some edram and presto!
Norrison  +   617d ago
@neogeo
Wii U's GPU isn't a beast, and if the CPU is as bad as they say, we may see the CPU bottlenecking the GPU even if it's a beast.

Try to run CPU intesive games with a 680 and a pentium and you're going to have shitty framerate; my friend was saying the gtx680 sucks because he had better framerates with his previous GPU, it was a bottleneck, he bought a 3770k and his framerate increased dramatically.

The Wii U may have a good GPU, but it won't use it's full potential if it's CPU is bad.
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darthv72  +   616d ago
@norrison
sorry man but you make a very unrealistic example. We cant apply PC logic to a console situation.

The very nature of consoles being designed very closed and consistent prevents the variables that developers have to account for when designing their games.

So that is why that even with the 'limited' specs of the wii-u it will be able to deliver the best it can because developers wont have to make allowances for the same game being played on different hardware.

the pc world is very open and a dev essentially makes one game that has to adjust for the number of possible configurations. console devs....not so much.
vulcanproject  +   616d ago
The best system is a balanced system. Some games will expose Wii U's lack of CPU performance, others you wouldn't even know it. It varies game to game.

It is true that the key component for a games system is really the GPU. I have said this countless times on here, no end of times.

But I have still pointed out that there is a limit to what you can do if you have a weak CPU. You are likely to see major bottlenecks or performance degradation on particular code that will only run happily on a CPU.

The closed environment of a console can really help if you want to shift tasks to the GPU.

BUT THERE ARE STILL A GREAT MANY THINGS A GPU CANNOT DO BY ITSELF.

Otherwise why even have a CPU. Why not just toss it in the bin. Its pure common sense, even if you are not a tech head.

So CPU performance does indeed still matter, no matter what anyone says or what you might read elsewhere. CPU matters on many PC games. Some games it matters, some it doesn't have a lot of impact. Variable.

The idea that Wii U is getting these ports designed from other consoles with potentially better CPU performance is possibly part of the reason we see Wii U not beating 360/PS3 comprehensively from the get go in every port despite having more memory and a better GPU.
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bozebo  +   616d ago
Exactly.

Games probably won't be able to show off great physics and AI at the same time as impressive graphics. I suppose that is fine, the entertainment factor often comes from game design not technical feats.

But with that quantity of RAM and the low bandiwdth, it won't really be able to take full advantage of high detailed textures - but it will be able to calculate smooth shadows and lighting as well as clear AA because they will use the eDRAM for those shader resources and the GPU should be quite capable.

That leads me to wonder what the quantity of RAM is for. A lot of 360 and PS3 optimization techniques at the moment reduce RAM usage while sacrificing CPU cycles, PC games often do the opposite. Also there will be fewer loading scenes. CPU cycles will be saved from having to decompress as many streamed resources in open world games too.

So, the CPU is not going to be under as much stress as in 360 and PS3 games, I'm not sure what that will result in though.

Also, if the eDRAM is big enough it could store some high res textures (if it's small or medium capacity, resources could be copied into eDRAM for things which share the same resources, then the next resource can be copied in - every frame. Less memory bandwidth would be used than addressing main memory from the shaders like the 360 does, hence it's memory bandwidth, it does have eDRAM but only about 10MB). The GPU might only be able to address the eDRAM, that would be interesting.
#4.2.6 (Edited 616d ago ) | Agree(1) | Disagree(1) | Report
Norrison  +   616d ago
@darthV
PC cases can apply to console cases because consoles are like PCs. They have a GPU, CPU, Motherboard, RAM, etc. And no, theres no way around bottlenecks other than an OC or buying a better CPU, because games are run by the CPU and GPU
kneon  +   617d ago
4A was only commenting on the CPU, the Wii U GPU is certainly more powerful than the 360 or PS3.
ABizzel1  +   617d ago
Yeah but having the CPU bottleneck the GPU makes it kind of pointless.

I guess the comment some dev. made a while ago was true.

"The Wii U's CPU is inferior to the PS3's Cell Processor and even the XBox 360's. But I guess you don't need intelligent AI or advance physics to make a Mario game."

Not my words his. But on top of that you have the console streaming data to the controller, so it takes another hit to the CPU.

Kind of disappointed, but we'll see where it goes in a year or 2.
#4.3.1 (Edited 617d ago ) | Agree(20) | Disagree(3) | Report
cyhm3112  +   616d ago
hahaha, believe or not, they lied.
Donnieboi  +   616d ago
Now that the wii u is here, people can crack that sucker open to see what it's made of. Gear made their statement b4 the console was finalized. The same happened with Kinect. 3rd party's sung it's praise, but at last minute MS cut corners and now the kinect is not very responsive (due to a lack of having it's own cpu)
fatstarr  +   616d ago
Different devs put different amounts of effort into making a game.

when you just port stuff you get meh results because your lazy cookie cut work doesnt play well with every system.

then you have devs that put in real effort and tailor the game for the console and its flaws

then you have nintendo3rd party effort which is to tone down graphics and blame the hardware instead of trying.

if a company hates Nintendo and actually doing real work they will bash them , shun them and vow never to make a Nintendo game until they see the sales then they make a casual sithware low-tier sell out port or stick figure game and either rake in the cash or complain that there's no 3rd party love on that console.
enkeixpress  +   617d ago
and... Here. We. Go.

Related video
#5 (Edited 617d ago ) | Agree(4) | Disagree(5) | Report | Reply
TimmyShire  +   617d ago
From what I hear of people around the internet it's not all a bed of roses for the Wii U. This won't help.

I've seen a lot of devs between the two opinions, so it's hard to say.

All I know is - if it's that difficult to know for certain - it's probably not worth the risk just yet.
orellymario   617d ago | Spam
shackdaddy  +   617d ago
I'm really tired of all the back and forth talk that's been going on for over a year now. I think if you're on the fence about buying, then you should really just have a wait-n'-see attitude instead of listening to devs contradict each other over and over again...
#8 (Edited 617d ago ) | Agree(17) | Disagree(3) | Report | Reply
Xenofex  +   616d ago
Regardless of what other devs have said, it is a fact that the CPU in the Wii U is garbage. The die size is around 32mm2.... and it's also on a 45nm process. There's no chance of it being better than the PS3 or 360 CPU.
Lovable  +   617d ago
Well 4A can shove their game up their asses then
ronin4life  +   617d ago
That's not very loveable sounding man...
Lovable  +   617d ago
Tell me about it dude...

@bubblebeam

This developers have been bitching about everything that they're not familiar with. You see if they want power, they could easily develop for the PS3, but no "TEH TECH ISSS TOOOOO COMPLICATEDDDD"...buzz off stop making excuses while other developers can push the system to its utmost limit...
#9.1.1 (Edited 617d ago ) | Agree(2) | Disagree(15) | Report
M83_  +   616d ago
Depends if you like things shoved up your arse I suppose
Rivitur  +   616d ago
@Lovable

Say that after they release Last light on PS3 March 2013..
bubblebeam  +   617d ago
Why would 4A Games be lying? You are the one missing out! Metro is heavy on post processing effects-the lighting and fog plays a big part. It's understandable why he would be frustrated. Unlike internet kids, developers aint fanboys.
MidnytRain  +   616d ago
They ARE developing for the PS3.
bubblebeam  +   616d ago
Correct MidnytRain.

I think "Lovable" isn't very lovable at all, he blew a mental gasket with that last comment lol.

4A games ARE making Last Light for the PS3, which is going to be great. They were talking about the PS3's cell around the release of Metro 2033, and what they could do with it. I hope they develop the 360 and PS3 games separately, to play to each consoles advantages.

"...buzz off stop making excuses while other developers can push the system to its utmost limit... "

You obviously haven't seen or heard about Metro 2033 running on a high end PC, as it is regarded as one of the best looking games ever made. Try harder. So much fail and kid rage.
paddystan  +   617d ago
He has right according to a NeoGaf user who says that the CPU is 43% slower than the PS3 and 360s.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum...
WrAiTh Sp3cTr3  +   617d ago
I don't know why you're getting so many agrees when it's not the cpu that neogaf is talking about in that link, it's about the RAM.
paddystan  +   617d ago
Haha, Im sorry, I read too fast. :P
shackdaddy  +   617d ago
For some reason N4G has gone into Nintendo hate mode. Every negative comment gets agreed and every positive comment gets disagreed along with a comment trying to belittle the good news.

Some of the negative comments coming out do make sense such as the annoying wait times on the OS, but most I've seen is just blatant hate like the person is on a mission or something...
bicfitness  +   617d ago
Its a crap hardware design, shackdaddy. Nintendo should be called out for it. MS or Sony would be slaughtered in the press if they released a console like that.
SilentNegotiator  +   617d ago
@shackdaddy

"Nintendo hate mode"? Maybe it seems that way because people are upset to find out how weak Nintendo's "next-gen" system is, how slow the OS is (despite having a GB of dedicated memory!), that the people with basic systems have to basically fill their internal HDD with a firmware, and that ZombiU is getting very mixed reviews (which likely means that less people will enjoy it than would a game with straight forward positive reviews).

You're confusing hate with disappointment.
HappyCamper172  +   617d ago
@SilentNegotiator
"ZombiU is getting very mixed reviews (which likely means that less people will enjoy it than would a game with straight forward positive reviews)"

Why don't you start playing games from the simple feeling of --this could be fun to play-- you'll enjoy more game i guarantee.

If I would buy games based on the reviews i'd have too many overhyped games and sequels.
SilentNegotiator  +   616d ago
@Happy

I'm talking statistically, not attitude.

If a bunch of people that normally give a "90" or higher to 90% of the games that they review give a "70" or lower to this game, it's likely that STATISTICALLY less of the amount of people that PLAY it will NOT CARE for it.

Unless English isn't your first language, you have no excuse for reading my comment as anything else.
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Locksus  +   617d ago
Oh, boy. Here we go.
To be honest, I was never expecting for the Wii U to directly compete with the PS360 and the next-gen consoles. To me, it has always seemed that Nintendo has always been doing their own thing. I wasn't expecting it to have killer specs.

The reason I'd buy the console would be for the 1st party lineup Nintendo has. I'm excited to see how the new LoZ will look like. I'd also love me some Xenoblade and another Mistwalker game.
HappyCamper172  +   617d ago
I wasn't expecting it to be much better than ps/360 but i didn't expect it to be worse too.

I don't own ps3 or 360 and i don't want to have 2 consoles (wiiu and ps/360) or underpowered one that developers will avoid.

I just expected wii u to be as good as ps/360.

As a disappointed wii owner i have to say:
No more nintendo for me.
Schawk  +   617d ago
Goto youtube and get the reports from people playing cod, and this is people who own other systems, the wiiU is apparently the best version less slowdown and even smoother online play, look at the gameplay you will see for yourself, so the cpu isent bad as being reported
Jobesy  +   617d ago
Yes, you WILL have better online play when ONLY < 600 people are playing at the same time. Increase that to >500,000, different story.
Unlimax  +   617d ago
Let's see what the Wii U do with battlefield 4 Engine !
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Norrison  +   616d ago
COD isn't CPU intesive, I'm pretty sure the Wii U will have worse fps on more CPU intesive games. But we don't know yet, he may be talking about raw clock speeds which doesn't really matter if you have a good CPU architecture.
#12.3 (Edited 616d ago ) | Agree(1) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
cyhm3112  +   616d ago
according to some people on neogaf, the graphics is actually worse on WiiU
Dgander  +   616d ago
I dont get it with some of these people.....
You told them what to do to (see for themselves) but they rather stay here and speculate like idiots. I have already seen livestreams and countless gameplay videos of Black Ops 2 for WiiU and i can state for a fact it looks a little better and surely runs better than the Xbox360 and PS3 versions. If the CPU really is worse than the PS3 and Xbox360 versions then Treyarch did a hell of a job hiding it.
tehpees3  +   617d ago
Slow CPU = Less heat. That is a good thing for gamers.

I don't see what the disagrees are about. It means Wii U is unlikely to ever get a more serious problem like RROD because it uses less heat.
#13 (Edited 617d ago ) | Agree(9) | Disagree(50) | Report | Reply
sjaakiejj  +   617d ago
Yeah, lets put a Pentium 2 in the next Playstation and Xbox to ensure they don't overheat as well!
Septic  +   617d ago
Hey hey! Don't diss the Pentium 2!
fossilfern  +   616d ago
No mate put an AMD K6 in that beast! 300mhz of POWA!
DarkHeroZX  +   617d ago
There's a reason you have 1 bubble. Why use it if your not going to contribute anything good.
despair  +   617d ago
great logic there tehpees3...LMAO..thanks for the laugh.
SyWolf  +   616d ago
You can manage heat, you can't bump the processor speed up with an update once the design is finalized. Slower hardware is never good for games. The reason why Microsoft had so many hardware problems is because they didn't properly manage the heat. The PS3 generated more heat then the 360 at launch but Sony understands how to cool a system properly.
LightofDarkness  +   617d ago
It's not all about CPU power with the WiiU, though. CPU power is important for 360 and PS3 because of their relatively under powered GPUs. The Wii U's GPU is many times more powerful than those found in the 360 and PS3.

Because the other two have been around so long (and devs know so many tricks regarding shifting workloads around from GPU to CPU and vice versa), console games are more aimed at utilising more CPU power and less GPU power. The opposite is true in the Wii U's case, so it's just about focusing more on the GPU rather than CPU when developing for it. This will come with time.

Remember when the PS3 first came out and everyone was crying about how none of the games looked like Gears of War and it was doomed? And even some developers (like Valve) called it a poorly designed POS that will never work? Yeah. Now look at how wrong they were.
RevXM  +   617d ago
Ps3 and 360 have underpowered GPU's?
Compared to 2012 standards yes.

360 got the slightly superior GPU and the ps3's RSX is pretty much equal to the nvidia 7800 (or 7900) which at the time was the 3 most powerful nvidia card if Im not a bit mistaken and was targeted towards gamers with high demands and therefore labeled as HIGH END at a pricepoint of 400+ USD.

If anything Ps3 and 360 have undersized memory capacity.
DarkHeroZX  +   617d ago
Lol wii u can have a great gpu but with crappy bandwidth it wont show obvious superiority to current Gen.
RivetCityGhoul  +   617d ago
has anybody actually tore apart the wii u and compared the specs to a PS3 & 360. because you have some saying the wii u is more powerful and some saying its weaker. like cmon i can't this dude serious about the wii u when there is major inconsistencies all over the place.
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ronin4life  +   617d ago
Ok, your comment is a good segwey for me. Here is something few know because it is so... strange.

Nintendo is king of efficiency. They have ALWAYS made their consoles out of reletively outdated tech. But this isn't some messed up jigsaw puzzle contraption where none of the pieces fit: their machines end up like frankenstien monsters and always seem more capable(sometimes drastically more so) than the pieces appear on paper.

Example: 3ds. We all know it is weaker than vita. However, included in it is a special set of shading/lighting tech. Shadows are difficult to run and take a crapton of a consoles power, but the 3ds does this IN-HOUSE at little cost to efficiency. Which is why you have MH3U running at such great FR with those beutiful shadows in full 3d.
(I believe someone has even said the wiiU also has this, but I'm not sure...)

The wii was a graphical power house too: Zelda SS and especially MarioG are good examples of this. People were suprised to see such graphics because the wii was so weak... but Nintendo seems to have a knack for taking unimlressive parts and making them work beutifully together.
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Donnieboi  +   616d ago
Maybe so, but 3rd party companies don't need the headache of having to get around every knack of nintendo's hardware. They just want something that is relatively simple to port across all 3 platforms without needing too many different teams tweaking it for one particular console that is a pain to develop on.
wampdog29  +   617d ago
Again though, this dev isn't taking into consideration the fact that the GPU is also capable (even more so than the competition) of GPGPU abilities. The fact that you can have both the CPU and GPU working on the same general-purpose processing (also from on the same chip due to being 'spliced' together) is something I don't think is being taken into account. Or, maybe it is, and the writer is looking for the usual anti-Nintendo sentiment. The dev even said that they are having a harder time with the PS3 version, so maybe trying to figure out yet another console just isn't in the cards.
#16 (Edited 617d ago ) | Agree(8) | Disagree(6) | Report | Reply
Hoje0308  +   617d ago
Learn how to read. No one said anything about the PS3 being hard to develop for. They only addressed the extra work that goes in to developing for an extra console, which would be the aforementioned PS3.
oohyenrb   617d ago | Spam
jjank11  +   617d ago
There is no definitive answer yet. We don't even fully know the architecture of the system. TBH, a faster processor really doesn't mean better games. Its like saying i want a 3GHz quad core processor on my phone but that doesn't even make sense from simply a power consumption standpoint and heat generation, let alone wasted resources.

Since the beginning of this generation technology has become more efficient and we don't truly need raw power, its about efficiencies, more or less.
joeorc  +   617d ago
@jjank11
100% exactly, you just cannot go by raw specs, its how the system is designed how each and every component works inside the system to provide its overall system level of performance. for instance they already did a SunSpider test twice now for the WiiU

1st test:

http://www.nintendolife.com...

2ND TEST:

http://images.anandtech.com...

HOW did it go further down the benchmark?

simple:

The browser is using an older version of WebKit, which is likely responsible for some of the not absolutely stellar performance here.

does that mean that it could not be updated? no, that the point, these test's are general guidelines as the API's further mature and tweaks to the system happen overtime the performance will increase.

that is just the way it is.

and PS:
software is another component to the system
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ape007  +   617d ago
that means a complex game like GTA V or even IV cannot run on it???, with all happening at once, car physics and euphoria physics etc.. ???
#19 (Edited 617d ago ) | Agree(1) | Disagree(12) | Report | Reply
chronoforce  +   617d ago
That's what the GPGPU is for,you can offload these tasks to the GPU. How well that would work is another question entirely.
skyrimer  +   617d ago
Ouch, that's gonna hurt. And I don't know why a developer would troll about the console power, they hate the money they would makes from selling their games?
Neonridr  +   617d ago
It's hard to understand how developers like Treyarch or Gearbox are able to make their games on par (in the case of Black Ops 2) or better (in the case of Aliens Colonial Marines), yet this developer has problems.

It just doesn't make sense how if the processor was so slow and "horrible" how can the Wii U even put out games like Madden, Fifa, ME3, Batman, Tekken, AC3, Black Ops 2, etc and they at THE WORST look EXACTLY like the 360 and PS3 versions.

If someone can explain to me how the Wii U can do all those fine, but for some reason this developer says they can't do it to match what's on the PS3/360 I would love to hear their so called expert explanation.
#20.1 (Edited 617d ago ) | Agree(13) | Disagree(9) | Report | Reply
wampdog29  +   617d ago
^this^ but also while running a second screen....
ABizzel1  +   617d ago
It depends on the game.

Those games aren't heavy in A.I. and focus on over powered enemies (aka Aliens) or groups of enemies (Call of Duty) to make the games challenging.

Now take a RTS like Civilization where you have a computer AI that's basically a chess master that's reacting to your every move in real time. That takes a lot of CPU power vs. the GPU.

The easiest way to show it is to look at the fps of a gaming PC running multiple games.

If the PC doesn't have a good CPU then the fps drop significantly in A.I. heavy games. And the Wii-U is going to suffer with such games as RTS, Shooters like Crysis and Halo, and Dynasty Warriors for the sheer amount of things happening on screen.

The GPU is trying to remedy this, but the CPU is holding it back.
SyWolf  +   616d ago
Games that require more processing power from the CPU such as Metro will suffer from the pack of power the Wii U has. Games that don't require a massive amount of CPU power like Boarderlands will be fine.
quantae06  +   616d ago
It's called being a lazy developer. If other developers are figuring it out then something is wrong with the developer complaining.
bubblebeam  +   616d ago
@quantao06

It's funny when fanboys act like the developers are either fanboys themselves, or just being lazy. Especially considering they released one of the best looking games on PC, and are known to be heavily relient on the CPU.

Play Metro, then make a judgement. Until then, I'll take the word of a respected developer over some internet kid.
JokerFock  +   617d ago
lazy dev...go make it from zero if u have some...errr money??? :D
Jdeee  +   617d ago
I got the wii u for their first party games, zelda, Mario, metroid ect. I have my xbox for all the other games
ape007  +   617d ago
100% correct
deafdani  +   617d ago
That's very nice of you, but not everyone has the time or money (or both) to own more than one console.
wampdog29  +   617d ago
"...time..."???
deafdani  +   617d ago
@wampdog:

Yes, "time". Even putting the money factor aside, some people may have a pretty busy life for various reasons (work, kids, etc) so they can't justify having more than one console to play.

Why is this so hard to understand?
mrbojingles  +   617d ago
Even a Triple-Core Broadway @ 1.4Ghz would run circles around the Xenon at half the speed. Don't act like raw clock speeds are indicative of quality folks.

Also he says "early" which makes it sound like he hasn't touched a devkit for a long time. Numerous changes happened in the past year.

Additionally I wonder if people complain and moan when the 720/PS4 have Quad-Core 1.8Ghz-2.4Ghz CPU's and flame Sony/MS for having them "clocked" lower than 360/PS3.

For reference, the Wii U has a separate ARM CPU for the OS (i think it controls OS) and a separate Sound processor instead of making the main CPU do all that.
Neonridr  +   617d ago
it's like the Xenon chips today would run laps around the Xenon chip that is in the 360 from 2005. People don't seem to understand that chips get smaller and get more streamlined, thus they don't have to run at such a high clock speed to achieve the same result.
ABizzel1  +   617d ago
Agreed, but this rumor about it being a modified version of the one used in the Wii is troubling, seeing how it's also the same one used in the gamecube.

Add to the fact that this is coming from a PC dev. who knows their $h!t, and it's not looking good.
kesvalk  +   617d ago
since the beginning i would wait for the games to come (mainly metroid and smash) before i would buy a wii-U, also it's the first party that counts, for all the other games i have a gaming PC to play them.

that aside, metro is not a good game anyway, i don't understand all the praise this series have, cuz the game is very shallow, like the witcher series.
HappyCamper172  +   617d ago
agree

And pc version of Metro had issues on 1500$ PCs not because the graphics looked amazing but because of poor implementation and optimization.

I question the ability of this team
kesvalk  +   617d ago
it's not just implementation, the game was too linear, almost a Russian themed COD, the controls were strange, the weapons were innefective, completely bogus AI and don't even get me started on the "stealth" missions.

the game was VERY uncreative, lacking everything except mood.
Jadedz  +   617d ago
That's unfortunate
Developers aren't experienced with the Wii U's hardware yet, so I can see why many of them are disappointed.
joeorc  +   617d ago
@Jadedz
"Developers aren't experienced with the Wii U's hardware yet, so I can see why many of them are disappointed."

that may be a part of it but its also many things that can and will effect your choice in making software. for instance pretty much within reason any game can be made or designed to work on pretty much any platform. but the game will not exactly be the same game on each platform, unless the hardware is designed exactly the same.

It may be close but there is other parts that can effect your game design because of one hardware platform may not have such a component that may be needed for your game. Many game engines are designed in the 3rd party area to be able to be scaled up or down to the hardware level, but they are not designed for the bare metal to take advantage of the core hardware level of that metal.

So if a developer states that there may be issues with the CPU or GPU level, you cannot say outright their just talking out their @ss if you will, it depends on many thing's like development team size, maybe their game engine would need to be reworked to work on such a platform's advantages and do not want to release a less than invested iP until their internal resources can handle such a project.
miDnIghtEr20C_SfF  +   616d ago
If this was the PS3, all the talk would be about lazy devs.
Jadedz  +   612d ago
Welp...
you're right :P.
millzy102  +   617d ago
assassins creed works fine is that not a big open world, enough said.
joeorc  +   617d ago
@millzy102
"assassins creed works fine is that not a big open world, enough said.

if the game is fun why would it matter?

but you brought up a good point, but also there something you may not be taking into account

such as:

procedural synthesis vs unique render art assets

example:

Stateless Stable Arts for Game Development

http://awelonblue.wordpress...

just because its open world does not mean outright that the system can outright be better, the open world type game can be less unique art assets produced to less tax the system but the models look so close alike the environment would be stale and less unique. its not really a problem in the sense the game cannot be fun, it just means the same tree generated over and over again with slight texture mesh changes here and thare, is not as taxing on your system as if your putting multiple unique are asset's inside the environment. instead of procedural synthesis generation of course there is procedural synthesis generation that can tax the system heavy it just depends on what your trying to do with your game asset's.
#26.1 (Edited 617d ago ) | Agree(2) | Disagree(2) | Report | Reply
deafdani  +   617d ago
Not all games are developed equally. Just because Assassin's Creed 3 is a big open world game it doesn't mean that, development-wise, it would use the hardware in the same way that Metro does.
beerkeg  +   617d ago
I won't be playing Metro Last Light on any of my consoles anyway, that pleasure belongs on my pc.
DwightOwen  +   617d ago
Let's hope it's optimized better than 2033. That port was HORRIBLE.
SpiralTear  +   617d ago
Is it just me or has this one developer in particular been extremely critical of the Wii U? I haven't heard much criticism from any other developers...
GraveLord  +   617d ago
"That the Wii U struggles to render games (that run perfectly on the Xbox 360 and the PS3) is a worrying trend for Nintendo."

Bull. Do these games run at a constant 60 or 30FPS? I don't think so. Assassin's Creed 3, Black Ops 2..etc, these games don't run "perfect" on any system, so to expect it to run perfect on Wii U is asking way too much.

"
“We had an initial look at the Wii U, but given the size of the team and compared to where we were last time, just developing for the Playstation 3 is a significant addition.”"

Sadly, this will be the case for many, many multiplats. It's going to be chaotic when PS4/720 are on the market...

Anyway its great to hear raw, unfiltered opinion about the Wii U from developers...
live2play   617d ago | Personal attack | show
aquamala  +   617d ago
anyone with a gaming PC knows CPU isn't nearly as important as GPU. if you have a CPU from 4,5 years ago and pair it with a recent GPU you can still max out games.
ylwzx3  +   616d ago
That is pretty much spot on... Its when you do it the OTHER way around it becomes a problem and a bottleneck is created.
profgerbik  +   616d ago
I have one and I know that is not true.

CPU is very important I don't know what new age bus you just jumped off but the CPU will always be very important.

Now this is not necessarily about the Wii U but more about your comment.

I would love to see you use a single core CPU and pair it with a higher end video card. I would really love to because I know for a damn fact it will run like absolute crap and is actually almost impossible because you can't pair the best GPU's of now with CPU's from 5-4 years ago, you obviously don't know much about computers..

With each new jump in CPU comes a new pin which will need a new motherboard. Each new motherboard brings higher performance, each new motherboard supports better graphics cards, better RAM and the list goes on.

If you were to use old ass CPU's chances are your motherboard will be old as crap also, meaning your ram will be older, your graphics card won't be that extreme because it won't support the newest PCI Express, your RAM will be older, everything practically even if you say got a GTX 580, sure it will be acceptable, just like the Wii U is acceptable but would it be what a PC should be and does that mean the CPU will save it? No.

Hell I know that from experience, I have done that with single core CPU's 4-5 years old even dual core and it sucks. I live and breathe computers sadly and I have had ton's and built many.. I could literally build one right with random parts laying around or a couple for that matter..

GPU is crap compared to the CPU but of course having a decent GPU is necessary but CPU handles a huge majority of the work..

You would actually have much much better luck doing it the complete opposite and actually getting a higher end CPU and a newer but low memory graphics card that just has better memory and express 3.0.

You really can't have one or the other that sucks badly and expect to get a good experience out of it but unless you are just used to playing on garbage PC's I guess it's acceptable, but not with me.. PC is my top gaming machine.

Point is the CPU is definitely more important.
#30.2 (Edited 616d ago ) | Agree(3) | Disagree(2) | Report | Reply
aquamala  +   616d ago
CPUs from 5 years ago are not single core CPUs, were talking about a Core 2 dual or quad core CPU , pair that with a good recent GPU you can definitely max out games

A GPU from 5 years ago, we're talking about a Radeon 2000 series card, you can't even play recent games with that even if you pair it with a i7-3770k
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