NowGamer: Wii U's tech specs aren't as impressive as initially thought and 4A Games won't be bringing Metro: Last Light to Nintendo's new console.
4A games wouldn't make up bull shit when it comes to hardware specs.
That's one developer that doesn't provide lip service :P @bicfiness We know the CPU is worse. When you consider the GPU, realise for a GPU to flex its muscles no matter how powerful, it needs Memory bandwidth. After yesterdays corrected reports Wii U only sports 12GB/s Memory bandwidth, which is pathetic really. GTX 680 is about the best GPU on the market right now. For those of you that have the luxury of owning one, you could install MSIafterburner and downclock the Memory speed, No need to touch the GPU Speed. You will see the 680GTX brought to its knees. Bottomline is no matter how powerful a GPU is without memory bandwidth it will be starved waiting for the next set of data to come, till then it will just sit there wasting cycles. Hence regardless of whatever GPU the Wii U has, i do not see how it can overcome the memory bandwidth issue. It might peddle along with the current gen consoles, but come next gen Wii U will be in trouble.
I don't know why you're schooling me, as I already stated that "everything else was worse". Or maybe I'm just misreading your tone. The memory bandwith is as abysmal as the rest of this hardware design.
SNES had a slow cpu as compared to the genesis. And yet we were treated to such games like DK country. Bottom line, speed as we know and love it is not relative to actual efficiency. That is why cpu companies like AMD and Intel sort of changed the selling point to how much their cpu's can do rather than how fast. I have often heard it explained like this. Which is more efficient? Having 10 workers at a steady pace or 2 that are really fast. The 10 can do more work in the same amount of time or less than the 2 that are having to run around and cover. When companies started introducing multicore cpus is when the actual "speed" began to slow because now the workload could be spread over the multiple cores. And the amount of power and heat could be reduced. Speed goes down but efficiency goes up. People are thinking nintendo is trying to surpass MS and Sony. That is an obvious thought but in reality Nintendo looking to continue the trend of surpassing themselves. We consumers are pitting each company against each other but on the company side they know their biggest competition is their own product line. @decrypt & bicfitness. Why do people think of these systems in the PC sense? I understand their performance is and development are more akin with PC but their design is intended to reduce as much bottleneck as possible. Reducing the number of traces and getting away from a split design and more inline with an all inclusive design adds to the efficiency. The example of a PC gpu / cpu is understandable for PC's. Consoles are closed nature and dont follow the same guidelines. So wouldnt it be sufficient to say that because of the nature of consoles, the PC way of thinking just doesnt work?
Darth, maybe you missed the part where its three enhanced broadway (Wii CPUs) stapled together. Bad CPU is bad. The low speed only adds to its fail. This isn't some genius, new-age, multi-threaded design, its a PPU core, which NO ONE uses anymore on account of its inefficiency.
Why should i buy Wii U, when i already have Xbox 360 and PS3? Wii U has so much less players(multiplayer), grahpic is kinda same, game they release are already released and already played on X360 or PS3. Also, it dosent have hard drive and blu-ray player. Also, X360 and PS3 are cheaper too. Its like i re-buy new PS3 plus 100 euros for having some exclusive games that look same as ps3 or xbox 360, when next year we going to have new ps4 and x720. NO REASON AT ALL
and i think people are also forgetting that it needs to power 2 screens simultaneously. especially if someone is going to make something fancy to be displayed on the gamepad screen along with what is already on the big screen. the GPU will definitely struggle a little there with that given memory bandwidth. dont get me wrong. i do not hate Wii U. still have plans to get one later when there are games that actually interest me compare to the current line ups. too little reason to go for it now from a PS3 + 360 owner. but from technical standpoint, it is clear this isn't next gen. More like an upgraded Wii with a different innovation with it's controller. @darthv72 as much as I would want to try to agree with you. but your DK theory there is not a worth comparison. unless i remembered wrongly, the game uses SA1 chip onboard of the game to improve the graphics capability. So you are talking about the already "slow" cpu but addon with a secondary co processor of something to improve the game visually. much like how you need the memory pak in order to play majora's mask on N64 with an exception that SA1 is build within the cartridge rather than something you need to purchase separately like the memory pak. from PCs standpoint, I do not disagree that GPU usually plays a more important part than CPU when come to gaming performance. but during all these years, consoles kinda make this theory not very true in a way. computers are upgradable. but consoles ain't. developers tend to have to use both the cpu and gpu in a more efficient way than those developers trying to develop on PCs. since consoles have stagnant hardware. where a weak cpu on Wii U can actually pose a problem in long run. take a look at some of the best looking console games out there like Uncharted, Heavy Rain, Last of Us and God of War and etc.. it is known that 360 has a more powerful GPU than PS3 but yet not a single 360 game actually reach the fidelity on those visuals from the games mentioned. so imo... good GPU theory still stands for PC gaming. but in consoles, you can't depend on GPU alone. both are just equally important
Nintendo better hope the casuals bite this one, they just might have a hard sell on their hands. With gaming PCs 8-10 times as powerful selling around 500usd. PS3 and Xbox 360 both simular in power but selling cheaper having a much bigger community and establish online. Dont see how this will work for Nintendo.
@ Darth, I'd take the two workers, it's better on my bottom line.
Memory bandwidth isn't the issue: graphical resources can be cached in eDRAM (which will be significantly faster than the 360 or PS3's RAM - it's right on the substrate with the CPU and GPU), you can't make direct comparisons to PC hardware there. Think of eDRAM as the equivalent of VMEM in PC graphics cards - except it won't have the capacity to store all the resources at once so they have to be switched a few times each frame (this is where it's heavy on RAM but nowhere near as slow as accessing the RAM directly from the fragment shaders) The Wii-U is probably capable of better graphics than the 360 or PS3 (shaders units are newer and hence more feature complete and numerous) but due to what 4A are saying about the CPU, it wont be able to compute complicated physics and AI at the same time so it will miss out on a lot of multiplats.
I think you are behind in times the gtx690 is much more powerful than the 680 twice as powerful almost
Are we all talking about the same dev here? Metro 2033 was poorly optimised. So anything these guys say, I'll take with a pinch of salt.
Nintendo is banking all of its money on the GPGPU to make up for the CPU power. Its a complicated and new way to program things I believe, but when people learn to use it their way it could see much better than expected results, but I am doubtful CPU + GPGPU power will push games to a higher level than PS3/X360 with Physics, and AI capabilities and any other CPU heavy tasks. Doesn't mean we won't see a few great titles in its lifetime though. If any previous generation with less power has given you a game you love then its likely this one might as well at some point. AMD could have given them an APU like AMD Llano and it would have been 100 times better for WiiU. Only time will tell if developers can find an efficient way to utilize GPGPU+CPU power. Whatever amount there is under there.
Because when its a PS3 article about graphics and some one just happens to mention a pc its disagree central and everyone is put into a state of delusion... shaking my head, when its a Nintendo thing its all agrees. people are so fake man, I don't get why the hate for Nintendo runs so deep. Nintendo will make due with its hardware, its the beginning of the generation, if the zelda tech demo was anything they will splash that Nintendo magic and make it work. -Mario Galaxy 2 -Mario Galaxy -Monster Hunter 3 -The Last Story -Xenoblade Chronicles -Tatsunoko vs Capcom -Twilight Princess -Skyward Sword -Rayman Origins -Muramasa -Sonic and the Black night + Colors all visually impressive especially when you think of whats pulling it off, (the "inferior" specked wii)I cant wait to see the results of the wiiu come 2 years from now( don't dare forget the clay looking games from the 360's launch) Remember "its about the studio, the engine and the time invested into making that platform shine" or at least that's what the fans of the hdtwins say. when it comes to the wii u though, automatically its specs this and that. FYI friendly reminder 2x 260gtx and a quad core pretty much blow the 360 and the ps3 out of the water. and call your self's hypocrites if you call out the wiiu( when its using all of these does all these graphics tricks that the ps3/360 are currently using) when its going against ps4/720 . also its really a generation leap from wii to wiiu
@King the GTX690 is not a GPU it is a graphics card containing two GTX 680 GPUS. That's like me saying that 2 PS3s are more powerful than one.
Conclusion: Ninty just want so sell us a console as cheap as possible... ANd have profit:P But because the screen is expensive ( OF the gamepad) even then they sale at a loss.
You can't simply look a a console as a PC. People were laughing at Sony's memory bandwith yet ps3 has some of the most visually stunning games this gen. Also XBox360 cpu isn't as fast as the Cell in ps3, but Halo 4 is graphically intense and maintains it's 30fps throughout the game. I just think this is the case of not enough manpower. Also it's not like it can't be done, this is just another case of market share developers. I think they're looking at the time and money that would go into it. It's an unnecessary expense when Wii U's market share is in it's infancy. But I'm 100% certain Wii U can run it with little to no problems.
They've (neogaf and Beyond 3D) have pegged it as a triple core, enhanced broadway chip - the same CPU found in the Wii. The GPU is moderately better than last gen consoles, but everything else is worse except maybe disc read speed. Kinda pathetic no matter which way you slice it. Only Nintendo can get away with this crap. That's like Apple releasing a new phone with an A3 chip in it and an SD screen - they would be murdered.
If Apple did that it will sell like crazy, fanboys are blind.
Apple DOES get away with it, check out how powerful their macs are vs similar priced high end PCs... Many people still try to say they're better.
with the broadway design initially? It certainly got the job done for the wii so the idea of enhancing it for the wii-u seems the most logical. It isnt like they took the same chip and made it faster. they took the chip and tripled it and made it faster. so unless there was something completely wrong with the original idea behind broadway to begin with, there shouldnt be any reason to think this new super broadway is bad. i know this has nothing to do with the PS3 but there have been many that say sony should keep the cell and improve on it for the ps4. If they did, would that not be the same case for them as it seems to be for nintendo? It certainly makes sense from a cost perspective.
PPU is an awful, dated architecture - particularly the 7XX variant that the Wii and Wii U are using. What aren't you gettting, Darth? Not only that, but its underclocked to all Hell to keep heat and power consumption down. The average Nokia cell phone has a better - significantly better - CPU, and I'm not exaggerating. I'm out of bubbles, and I don't think you understand the chip very well, so read up on PPU architecture and the Wii chip and you'll understand a bit better.
@darthv72 not that I have a problem with you. but you do make yourself sound like Apple die hard follower. Maybe you should take a look at how fast Apple discontinue their iPad3 and release a new one. If there is nothing wrong, they should have stick to their standard time line in replacing their hardware. Remember how they brag that it is 3x faster than Tegra. Yet a 6 months life span? Something that work previously does not mean it will work again.
Then how an earth is black ops on wiiu in720p and gamepad on release with better textures and framerate shadows an lighting all on day 1 its because the power is in the gpgpu it hardly needs a cpu to make next gen games you coul say with wiiu having a cpu quite powerful is a bonus when the gpgpu takes care of mostly everything. Its why randy pithford says the wiiu is a proper next gen system its just more powerful END OF.It supports UE4/CE3/Unity4/Retros new engine Hmmmmmm It can handle Metro with 10% of that GPGPU alone and the ram.
the GPU isn't moderately better than last gen's, it just have more edrams, it is actually worse.
i didnt even know apple fans had a particular sound to them. i guess you could apply your logic to any type of fan. including star wars fans (to which i am). As every movie that comes out (good or bad) i have to see otherwise i cant really call myself a fan. I can voice my concerns after but I have to do myself justice and at least see the movies for myself. Now as to what a company does, that is their own thing and by no means are you obligated to follow them for every thing they do. That is personal choice. although I did say i am a fan of SW so i do follow that. go figure. The lifespan of Pc hardware used to be something like over a year between cpu and graphic chip releases. then it became a competition to see who could get to 1000MHz first and it was AMD. So naturally you had similar competitions between chip makers like 3dfx and ATI and nvidia. so yeah the 6mo cycle as it relates to Pc hardware....way more common than your example of apple and their ipad. By the time i save up to get a great graphics card for my pc it is now a so-so because it has been surpassed by something else within the 6-12mo time frame. Its like the analogy of a new car. The second you drive it off the lot it is now lost its value. So when these consoles go into the R&D they are probably pretty good. Up until launch day then they are considered slow and outdated.
Nintendo may as well have stuck a modern ARM processor in there to be honest. If it is really just a triple core overclocked version of Wii's CPU then it is a piece of crap relative to modern designs. Nintendo properly cheaped out here. They could have chosen literally any CPU design they wanted. Any ARM, any AMD x86. Any of IBM's modern parts. But no. They looked at the ancient chip inside Wii and decided to trick it out with some wheel spinners and chrome paint and put it alongside a DX10 class GPU. Muppets.
Its called the iPad mini! LMFAO.
The Wii U(nderpowered). Sorry...couldn't resist. :P
Dude!that's hella funny.
They should have named it the wii . . n With the amount of people unhappy with the specs but nintendo will do what they always do and make unique games you cant play anywhere else, and will do unique things with the screen. I bet the first add on to the controller will a camera for augmented reality around the house.
Or...The Wii U (fell for it AGAIN).
If you read the article it sounds like they haven't even tried to develop for the Wii U. They clearly haven't got any dev kits and the way they say they had an "early look" suggests they didn't think it was worth all the extra work to port this title to the Wii U. They've obviously already done some dev work on the PS/360 versions and havent got the man power/skill to develop with a new console at the same time. So maybe they're not the sort to BS, but it really doesn't help if all you look at is the headline. There's always more to the story and considering how many studios say that Wii U is powerful I would say they're just making excuses for not broadening their demographic.
You could also say that the devs saying the Wii U is powerful, are actually saying that so people buy the console. You wouldn't speak bad about a new console you are developing for.
They actauly listed metro on the Wii U at 2011 e3 but then after some research into the tech they decided to scratch the project so the only THQ game to release on the wii u was darksiders 2.
You can have most powerful video/grahpic card on world, and have 12GB ram, but if CPU is slow and bad, then machine is not so powerful. Im really interested to see what happens to Wii U, when PS4 and X720 comes out. Wii won war by having cheapest console, and something new, but Wii U, is nothing special really, just a little bit upgrade grahpic, but it will be outdated when next year we see new console/consoles.
This is not the 90's anymore. GPUs these days are the most important part on a PC, even more so than the CPU. Having a good CPU is only important when you're dependant on an integrated card alone. Depending on how powerful the GPU on the Wii U is devs will have to program GPGPU implementations to make up for the weak CPU like it has been happening on the PC front for quite some time now. But it has to be a pretty powerful GPU though.
@wishingW3L sorry I have already covered that portion earlier. your GPU more important than CPU theory unfortunately maybe applicable for PCs but not consoles. I wouldn't want to waste my time repeating the lengthy post. Maybe you should scroll up and re-read what I said.
Thank you someone who realizes the importance of a CPU. I mean I am not trying to be an ass if you like the games on Wii U have at it. I am just more of a hardware whore now that I have become older and to me I like to make sure I have the fastest, most powerful and functional gadgets around. Mainly cause I am broke, if I could spend money and just toss it around I guess I would have everything.. but that is not the case and I have to be picky. I also don't really like much of what the Wii U has to offer so that is just my personal taste.
Wow, this comment section is unbelievable. If anyone here only plans on owning a Wii U for the next generation of games, then you SHOULD be worried about the specs. For the rest of you who weren't even planning on getting the thing, or plan on having multiple platforms next gen, grow up. We've known that the Wii U wouldn't be a powerhouse for a VERY long time now. Why does this news come as some stunning revelation to most of you? The majority of you guys in the comments have already stated that you'll own a ps4 or 720, so WHO cares about the specs? i'm getting it for Exclusives, like most of the people here, NOT multiplats, so Specs are IRRELEVANT.
I think it stems from the fact that Nintendo recently came out stating, "The Wii U is absolutely starting the next generation of home consoles."
I'm not against the Wii U but Nintendo is now more open to 3rd party developers and if it is really a bit underpowered then it won't do well with new games. Then again developers these days aren't aiming for too much graphical improvements since development costs also become higher with better graphics. In the end we can only wait and see.
@Trago1337 well for whatever reason. I think it is right for people to have concern be it already own one or planning to or even if they do not. Every release of a system can directly / indirectly affect how the next gen would be. Also would you expect Apple to replace their iPad in 6mths given to their iDevices track record? What if Nintendo did the same thing? No that I am saying Nintendo would abandon the Wii U for whatever reason especially given that it just got release. But what I am trying to put across is that there is nothing wrong with people having concern be it they are coming from which direction. It is not a matter of growing up or not.
This is coming from a graphical boundary pushing developers so of coarse they will say that since it's true for what they want. Lets put it this way if Nintendo made th Wii U with the tablet controller, a real powerful CPU and GPU, and tons of memory it would've been probably $600+ and for most out there today that would've been a stupid move since most wouldn't want to pay that much. Nintendo focuses on the experience over anything and we all know that and it works look at the Wii success. The Wii U will offer a great experience that's fun without a huge price. Also the games for the next Xbox and PS4 are gonna cost 2x to 5x more to produce according to Developers. Nintendo avoided this. It will cost Developers so much more either it will hurt them or they will charge more than $60 for the games just to break even. You have to wonder what really is the best way to move forward. All graphics or the experience. Maybe a little of both. Edit: and for the fake bandwidth rumor. UPDATE RUMOR 2: Bandwidth speed. http://site.gamingallthetim... "Currently there are some news articles floating around saying the bandwidth for the Wii U is 17gb/s. They are basing this on the DDR3 memory frequency. This is again an incomplete truth, you cannot determine the bandwidth with memory speed without knowing how fast the controller handles it to the CPU/GPU. Also eDRAM isn’t even included in the equation, the real bandwidth is about 30+gb/s with everything factored in. Opening up the console and reading a line on the memory does not give an accurate estimation."
True it's slow yet these guys are the new crytek. They don't really run optimized code they run high end code for certain cards only inorder to use brand new visual tech that frankly needs more from the CPU. The true speed of the CPU is an i3 vs Celeron moment. You will understand when the pushing starts but just for a taste. We have ps3, x360 code running on a chip way slower after watching these chips push out 4ghz. Plus games don't need all of that speed and power in the CPU, they need a balance going toward bandwidth and gpu. The bandwidth is a good guess so far. The ps2 used the same idea. Hopfully the other two do not over shoot tech wise. Just like the ps2 you must meet current trends in content creation verse price of production of said content.
"They don't really run optimized code they run high end code for certain cards only inorder to use brand new visual tech that frankly needs more from the CPU." Have you ever wrote code in your life? You can change your data types, reduce iteration and assignment as much as possible but you cannot magically make your code run on weak hardware without going further than optimization to the point of hacking at it with an axe.
Yep I've wrote code before. If you want to write optimized code you need to fully understand the compiler and the bottlenecks of the system. It is safe to say these guys have never wrote code for a true CPU/gpu setup. Simply put some silicon actually has routines hardwired into the chip. You simply provide the values or the data. You can emulate hardware or use the hardware provided. That is the true difference of optimizing... Which is where differed rendering stepped in or shader tech was moved off the CPU to the gpu. It is more than just data types. If it wasn't then I wouldn't mind being a coder lol. Once the middleware addresses the problem things will be fine. The only difference is few had pushed the boardway that hard. People like factor 5 are needed here. Like just think... There is a compression call in the kit. It does not work automatically. You have to go into your triangle setup and drop that compression tech in. If it isn't done early then that free compression will kill your CPU. Just look at epics code running on high end pc before unreal 3. Suddenly they had spline deformers when they simply had problems transforming vertices in their last engine. Yet thanks to code that was setup with the hardware in mind they suddenly have this cool new trick. I'm not saying the wiiu is a beast but it can hang right in there thanks to current tech and graphic designers. Please understand, there is no way a ps3 or xbox360 can display what a real pc game can right now for even the mid range. Yet no one wants to program or create art for it because it could potientialy bankrupt you. The power race is a double edge sword. Gaming or console gaming only flirts with that so the wii u will be fine. After black ops two no one wants to playing in the waters of a 500 million dollar whale. You will get crushed.
I disagree with using the word unoptimized in this case as you generally optimize for a target audience and that is what they did. Really high end computers. I'm not sure what you are getting at with your talk on optimization techniques when we do not have access to there source code and can not tell what they have or have not done.
The Wii-U is underwhelming. I'm waiting for 720 and PS4
There you have it folks.
I can believe them.. 4A rocks!! on pc anyway.. If they don't know anything they know how to push hardware. So I will take take their word for it since they are awsome nerds. All the nvidia physx in the trailer was awsome. Incoming inevitable hate for 4A for telling the truth. @1upgamer99 below try reading the article. " In an interview with CVG, Yerli said Wii U is "minimum on par with the current generation."" http://www.ign.com/articles...
actually I do believe in 4A's statement. At least I know they are creditable with their knowledge. I remember how Metro make my old laptop struggle but it still run incredibly great in both look and fps on 360.
Being a die hard Nintendo gamer from the NES days this really makes me sad. The Game Cube was a let down and Wii was the final x for me but I said you know what maybe Nintendo can find it in there heart as ask us loyal fans from day 1 for forgiveness and redeem there self with an high powered spec console but the Wii U is nothing more than a Wii.5 The sad part about this is that it will sell millions becuase the casual market will eat it up:( Well Nintedno thanks for the memories but my respect for you is gone and I will make sure that my kids kids kids...do not by a console from you ever.
I wouldn't mind but the Gamecube was a relatively powerful console for it's time. I remember being blown away when I first saw Resi 4 in action! Then Nintendo managed to capture a large portion of the largely untapped casual market with the Wii, which gave them a license to shamelessly sell under-powered hardware at the same price as the Microsoft's 360 core bundle. However since then, iOS & Android have eroded most of their market share. And they've come crawling back to the hardcore fanbase with their 'new', already outdated hardware that will no doubt be easily outstripped by the 360 & PS3's successors in the next 18 months. I can see the Wii U being the next Dreamcast, a product that initially sold well, but suffered an identity crisis & was eventually lost between console generations.
the cube that let you down? i ask because as it relates to the n64, the cube was a significant step up. We all know the wii was an enhanced cube but that is the nature of evolutionary upgrades. Snes was a better NES. Genesis was a better Master system. PS2 was a better ps1 and so on. All of these consoles since the 2600 (pong doesnt count as it was a single platform/game) have been evolutionary instead of revolutionary. The revolutionary changes in gaming have come from instances of breaking the traditional ways of gaming. such as going from carts to optical or more recently the way we play with more interactive controls instead of traditional ones. Gaming has never been an exclusive club but so many seem to think it was or should be.
Gamecube wii=2.5 gamecubes wiiu= 10wiis Nintendo made the casual market,if they didn't exist the industry would be belly up because only they would buy the trashy games that they buy. or the mainstream cookie cut fps's Nintendo gots this mayne. you think a company with over 1 billion ltd total combined software sales will go out with out a fight... priming up the next gen of kids to become potential customers 10 years from now is what nintendo is doing.
And that's all the evidence I need. Cancel my pre-order. Bye-bye Wii U.
I cancelled mine on Sunday, I will wait for a big price cut and some actual decent 3d games like Zelda, Galaxy, Metroid, FZero. Or in future if Dolphin can emulate it we can just buy the gamepad.
But if you pre-ordered, wouldn't you have gotten it already? Seeing that the console was released 2 days ago and all. I never pre ordered a console before so if you could explain how that works, I'd appreciate it.
im not saying i believe him he prolly never pre ordered BUT the wii u came out in the US not everywhere else..so he can be from the uk i guess
Well, actually, if he pre-ordered it from a retail store, that doesn't mean he has to pick it up right? So he can just cancel his pre-order, get the money back or put it towards something else right?
Thought that if you preordered and they didn't have enough they would put you on a waiting list...least thats what happened to my friend.
that sounds like a good idea
Okay well again Gearbox says the Wii U IS powerful. Much better than PS3 and 360. http://www.nintendolife.com... http://www.eurogamer.net/ar... So can someone please explain how Gearbox says this, and also how come Crytek Says this. http://www.ign.com/articles... I just don't get it.
Yeah Gearbox is developing a game for it...they arn't going to bad mouth the console when they want Aliens CM to do just as well on there as the PS3/360 version...more platforms, means more sales, more sales means more money. If they said something bad about the Wii U then people would just stick to the PS3/360 versions and I'm guessing they would be cheaper aswell. I guess the same goes for Crytek aswell, they probably have a curent gen game un announced being ported to the Wii U. It's all about money at the end of the day.
It is one thing for Gearbox to support the Wii U, but it is another for them to say the game will look and run better on Wii U due to the newer Tech. Why would Gearbox not just say something like, the Wii U version will look and run just the same as the other ports with added gamepad features.
@1upgamer99: At the end of the day, Nintendo did skimp on the hardware. The Wii U may be slightly more powerful than the 360/PS3, but is it really that much of an achievement in 2012 to marginally best technology that dates back to 2006? Hell even my 11-inch M11X netbook from 2010 kills the Wii U in terms of specs!