PSLS: In a recent interview, John Koller, Vice President of Marketing for home consoles and handhelds at Sony, was asked the perennial question of whether or not the PlayStation Vita would be seeing a price cut soon.
No matter how many times Sony say this and reiterate the 10 year lifecycle, people will still comment on PS branded consoles from a 5 year perspective (which is why they're always wrong). One day, maybe, the penny will drop.
The PSOne, PS2, PSP, & PS3 have track records of enduring & finishing that marathon proving Sony haters wrong. And these PlayStations are still being played today. Its been the same principles, plan & course since the PSOne. After 2 attempts Nintendo had to give up, sidestep, leave the core gamer, take on the little kids & they call it a "win". Even a giant billionaire like Micro$oft after 2 attempts wasn't able to stop them. Just like they say: Slow and steady wins the race. :-)
man that phrase is so used out of context. First of all you cant win a race if you are slow and steady. the point of a race is who can finish first in the quickest amount of time. We have no idea what kind of race these consoles are in let alone in a race at all. the slow and steady approach only assures you will finish. it does not guarantee placement. Regardless of the "marathon or sprint" you still have to finish before the other guy if you want to win. Oh and nintendo never left the core gamer. nintendo has always been there for the core gamer from the original nes to the current gen. Peoples perceptions change as well as their tastes. If you want to talk about giving up you can look at console companies like Atari, coleco, Mattel, NEC, SNK, Sega, Panasonic, etc. All of which had an idea to create something different in the respects of expanding entertainment beyond the mindless blips and boops of the pong dot bouncing back and fourth. some succeeded and others did not. nintendo never left the core. the core just forgot what gaming was about...Entertainment. Which is the middle name of NES.
You can win a race going slow and steady. IE if it were a physical race the fast and careless would likely trip up at some point as opposed to the slow and steady who would gradually overtake due to not screwing up in the middle of it.
In my opinion, the ten year life cycle doesn't mean much if your competitor replicates the same effect but with their new systems that sell well from the start instead of poorly at the gate and gradually better through life. I mean, if the PS3 catches up to the Wii in 3 years... Who cares? The wiiu is(in this theoretical situation) kicking the brand new ps4s ass and making far more money for Nintendo than the ps3/ps4 are combined for Sony. That, and (if things occur as they are setting up to with history repeating itself) the only reason the legacy console still sells is the gutting of BC in the newest system and the lack of games at launch. A new system should sell well through its whole life and should be a good value this entire time. When Sony whips out the ten year line, they are admitting to making their systems below value and saying that buyers will have to wait for that value to become better. That's not good business and is anti consumer.
Thanks for the arguments ronin & darthv @ darthv you disappoint me "We have no idea what kind of race these consoles are in let alone in a race at all." We have no idea? Maybe only you. Straight from Miyamoto's mouth they had to change their strategy with Wii in order to survive & not risk another N64 & Gamecube scenario. Emperor Yamauchi's pride just can not put up with a third defeat. Nintendo just can't compete on Sony's level or race. So they have to run another kind of race, the little league, a cheap race with the kids & casuals. But Nintendo is jealous of the race for the Big Boys are still running now, because what they made with Wii has proven to be still not enough to keep them on the black. So for the third time Nintendo is attempting to go head to head with Sony(PS3 ftm) again with the Wii U. This is where things get very interesting because they will be competing on the same level, the same race. I like the 50/50 balance of kiddie & mature games Wii U is offering compared to PS3 - a proposition Sony can't be arsed to do as they will mostly prioritize mature games. " Oh and nintendo never left the core gamer. nintendo has always been there for the core gamer from the original nes to the current gen. Peoples perceptions change as well as their tastes. some succeeded and others did not. nintendo never left the core. the core just forgot what gaming was about...Entertainment. Which is the middle name of NES." Dude, those are your perception, your opinion versus hard documented facts: "Nintendo president admits mistake in abandoning core audience for casual gamers" Read more: http://www.digitaltrends.co... Straight from Mr.Iwata's mouth. Even he disagrees with you & you have so many bubbles here on N4G? A flaw in the system? @ ronin "if the PS3 catches up to the Wii in 3 years...Who cares?" I don't care but I am sure Sony does. They do this for their own purposes & goals. It made them money in the past they have decisive reasons why they are doing it again & again. "The wiiu is(in this theoretical situation) kicking the brand new ps4s ass and making far more money for Nintendo than the ps3/ps4 are combined for Sony. " Really? How? In your imagination? Wii U & PS4 aren't even out yet. LOL How young are you people? If front loading is such a great business strategy tell me why is Nintendo is in the red after baziillions of Wii's & DS? "That's not good business and is anti(Nintendo)consumer." XD @ Chris Buffa 1044 Its not just about graphics but gameplay controls as well. The PS Vita uses the same quad core ARM graphics chip as the iPad 3 & 4 but 1.5 X the RAM. What makes you think it will look shitty or under powered or dated on a 5" OLED screen after 5 yrs? Delusion to the max! @darkride well said! @ ronin4life Whether you like it or not you can not force developers to make kiddie games no matter how well they sell. Making games is not just about money only but also artistic creativity. stop the sell out mentality already. Man that was long.... XD
just think of the term race and how it could relate to console gaming. Simply put, it cant. There is no finish line unless one sees fit to say, here's the finish line and we made it first. We have been in a perpetual marathon (if you will) for over 30 years. The baton has been passed from one to the other and in some cases competitors have dropped out. Maybe that is the best way to describe the console gaming world. Yet calling it a race when we have no defined point of finish....come on man. As to the point of sony and their 10 year plan. I commend them for wanting to be so supportive. They do also know that the continued support past a certain point is counter productive. Meaning that if people continue to buy the old and run down, they wont buy the new and improved. Or at least, not as quickly as the company would like. They support their previous base because they dont know when to say enough is enough and essentially make people notice they have something newer and better. sony is following Nintendo who in turn was following Atari. I think it is the 2600 that holds the record for the longest run of product support by the parent company. Sony could surpass it but they have to be asking themselves...why? People move on and so does gaming.
Vita sales are abysmal, sure it may be a marathon but if devs think Vita won't be able to even finish the race they'll stop making games for it. Small user base = small profits, if any.
This is exactly what the industry has been lacking; strategic advice from a bespectacled chimp XD Joking aside, it may not feel like it, but the ‘fanboys’ mantra is true; it’s “too soon” to expect an official price drop. Make no mistake; Sony will have sales figure thresholds in mind. If sales fall short (in their view, not ours) once the first holiday season is over with, they may then move to plan B and drop the price – but no one can bank on it at this stage.
....and Sony dropped the price today Guess the Sony agrees with this bespectacled chimp.
:P You're right. They hunted down your comments in a panic, hoping for your words of wisdom to deliver them from their turmoil. You da chimp! Hang on; did you tell them to do this via a temporary promotion? And to deliver the news via some random website rather than a press release? You did? Oh. Then I stand corrected and bow to your four-eyed, simian superiority! lol
“It’s a Marathon, Not a Sprint” Well it's a sprint to everyone else, and when they have crossed the finish line; you'll still be deciding what color socks to wear for the "marathon." If Sony want the Vita to be a success, they will have to make some serious changes. The Vita needs a price cut--plain and simple. When a parent decides what to buy for his/her kids for Christmas; one thing and one thing only will matter to them--the price. You could explain to a parent for the rest of your life what the Vita can and can't do, but they won't care because the price tag is all they're going to see, and that's why they'll choose the 3DS with it's attractive price tag. Not because of what the 3DS can do or what games it has, it's because it leaves more money in the parents' pocket afterwards. Don't get me wrong here - to me, the Vita is the greatest handheld ever, i just wish that Sony put a bit more effort into it. Less price = more sales. More sales = more Vita owners. More Vita owners = more dev support which means more games. Lose money on the hardware and get it back on the software. If i can understand that; why can't Sony, especially since all the online stores have to slash the price of the Vita to sell it. (I'm about to get killed)
I agree with you but you have to understand, Sony can't afford to take losses on the Vita, not after taking an astronomical one on the PS3. They are still trying to make THAT money back. From this year forward Sony is concentrating on profits. They have to figure out how to give customers what they want without bleeding money at the same time. The only reason Vita appears to be doing bad is because of Media propaganda shoveling the idea that Smart Devices have taken over the industry, when if fact they are something different entirely. Do the userbases over lap? Sure, but they don't completely coincide with each other. Vita is doing fine as far as Sony is concerned. Vita is making money on every one sold, regardless of how slowly it is selling. Once the first fiscal year is over (April) then they will slash price to compete with 3DS, which its highly unlikely that NIN will find it necessary or even possible to slash price again in order to compete with Vita. They are already the underdog in this battle so no need to try and make big splashes in order to gain lead. It makes more sense for them to not drop price until it is financially viable, and once they do the flood gates should open.
Let's say that PS VITA breaks even at 250 USD. So 50 USD price cut per item will result in 50 mil USD losses per million units sold. If PS VITA sells 15 million units a year with a cut price then PlayStation division will lose 0.75 billion per year by selling Vita. Do you know how many years it will take to regain such losses? In my opinion first they would better invest money in making superb games and advertising. Price cuts can come later. People buy 600 USD iPhones and iPads every two years and there's no problem with that. But when it comes to handhelds 250 USD for 7-year investment becomes too expensive.
iPhones and iPads have so much more functionality than Vita ever will.
I'm not talking about iPhads as a competition to Vita, I'm talking about spending money on electronic devices.
The Vita will have the same fate as the PSP, around it's middle age it will see games coming to it, just take a look at the example of God of War or MGS games over the PSP, let's see how it goes in the future Just expect good titles around July-December 2013
Yeah, this is what I'm thinking. Though I would say not to expect good title *announcements* until that point, for if games were coming then we would know of a few by now.
I agree its not a sprint but a marathon...the problem for the Vita is they started the race later, and slower than their competition and if they don't pick up the pace soon it wont matter what they do long term as the race will be over. Vita needs to do something to at least keep pace with the competition at the moment. As is, they are just falling further and further behind.
I have to agree. I have a PSV and it is an amazing little console and games like resistance LBP and UCGB are 3 of the best hand held games I ever played but there biggest issue is the lack of game where it matters in the hand held market. Nintendo have the right mix of games from Mario Kart to nintendogs. Sony really needs to start marketing the PSV as a handheld for all not for the core. Sales of the PSV are worse than the 3DS in its worst time of its sales and now the 3DS has a price drop and the XL its selling faster than the DS did. I don't think Sony need to drop the price of the consoles but include a memory card with the device as this is what makes the console price seem steep.
"Vita needs to do something to at least keep pace with the competition at the moment." I don't agree with this statement at all. Sony is clearly targeting a different market from the market the 3DS is going after, and even though the PSP didn't come close to matching DS sales, the PSP found it's audience and ended up moving over 70 million units. Sony doesn't get a bonus for matching their competition's numbers. They don't get paid by where they place on the charts. They get paid by units and software sold, regardless of what their competition does so saying "They have to keep pace with the 3DS" is just false. What the Vita sells in comparison to the 3DS is irrelevant. It's like saying Porshe needs to keep pace with the Honda Civic. They both make cars but obviously they're geared towards different markets. Few here seem to recognize that within the games industry, while there is certainly overlap there are distinctive markets there as well. At the end of the day as long as they make money and have a decent return on their investment, what on earth does it matter what anyone else sells?
You are right, except in one aspect; software support. Devs and publishers at this point will.choose the system with the higher install base and higher monthly sales to make their games for. Less games means fewer sales which means fewer games... in an ongoing cycle. Then their is the question of wether they are even making money, with the big boss saying the expect the vita to be profitable into 2014 while many deny then taking a loss per system. If they are taking a loss, that makes the software situation mentioned above even more difficult to remedy and makes your point of making money mute, as they are losing money. Fewer software licenses mean less income from that as well.
The problem with a lot of you is that you're looking at the Vita in terms of how you see Nintendo. The 3DS NEEDED a price cut because there was absolutely no justification in selling that marginal upgrade to the DSi for $250. The Vita is NOT the 3DS, stop thinking that Sony has to do what Nintendo does to be successful, they don't. So many short sighted people here that think they are masters of business and marketing. Where's your multi-million selling handheld gaming devices?
3DS isn't necessarily the only competitor. Vita must also survive the smart phones and tablet market, where the graphics advance at such a fast rate, Sony's portable will be under powered in just a couple of years. For a system where power is such a huge focus, that's a big problem.
Nah. People are giving mobile phone gaming too much credit. It's really not that big a threat. You're talking about a platform where the games are mostly terrible and the ones that aren't don't control the same. It'll be awhile before anyone has to worry about mobile phones being any kind of real threat. You have to consider a lot of things when it comes to handheld gaming, not just the graphics.
^ If they're actually running a marathon, they'll have to consider mobile phones as a threat down the line.
"Hardcore" gamers denying the mobile threat is really the global warming discussion for this industry. Yes, it exists. You can't approach mobile solely based on your purchasing decisions. Millions don't care about tangible buttons. All they want are free games, Infinity Blade and Angry Birds. And with more and more console games from the past getting ported...yea, it's a serious issue for both Sony and Nintendo...but more so Sony, because it has the more expensive hardware and lags behind Nintendo in the IP department.
I think the real problem is people like you who defend the price without realizing that it's not worth it for most consumers. All the high end tech, great graphics don't mean jack if people aren't interested and gravitating towards a cheaper alternative (3DS) or a smartphone which may cost more but has the ability to do much, much more than the Vita. I think its time to face facts that the Vita does need a price cut in the same way the PS3 needed a price cut.
I think a bigger problem is how quickly people will change their mind from a price being well worth it to being too much just because a competitor lowered their price. When Vita's price was announced at E3 it was met with applause, and news articles covering the price applauded Sony for the cheap price for a device with that much tech and value to it as well as so many gamers leaving comments. Then Nintendo was forced to reduce the price of the 3DS because of its abysmal sales (let's not forget that shall we) since you can't justify $250 for such a small "upgrade" to the DSi and then suddenly the Vita is too expensive. No, the Vita isn't too expensive. Nothing has changed between when its price was announced and now except people were too involved in what Nintendo was doing and criticizing Sony for not doing the same. PC's can do a lot more than consoles yet console gaming is a hell of a lot more successful in terms of recognition and desire than PC gaming. From that we can see that just because mobile phones can do more than game, doesn't mean that dedicated handhelds have to be worried about them. The games on cellphones are all garbage, the kind of stuff you'll play once then move on to the next garbage game. I think it's time to face facts that you all don't know what the hell you're talking about and the only real reason you want Vita to have a price cut is because Nintendo cut the price of the 3DS. Sony hasn't come forward with disappointment in the sales of Vita, so no the Vita does not NEED a price cut. Sure, for those of you who are too cheap to pay the extra $50 (ironic considering how many people pay for Live or PS+ or other such subscriptions) for such an amazing handheld device, a $50 price cut would be good for you. But if you're not interested in the Vita now, you won't be interested in it if it's $200 instead. That's just a fact. People who want the Vita will get it. People who don't want the Vita won't just for the sake of $50. The only thing I can agree with people about is that the memory cards are too expensive. That's all. Stop judging Sony based on what Nintendo are doing. That's as bad as judging Nintendo's Wii U based on the fact that the PS3/360 have graphically comparable games and are a gen older. Just stop.
@Dragon I agree that the system itself doesn't really need a price cut. But I would like to.point out that the 3ds never sold as poorly in retrospect as its naysayers always like to tout((edit; and it is not a marginal upgrade, or else so is the vita in the same respects.) The system sold poorly in only 1 way; less than Nintendo predicted. Of course it did; it was over priced and lacked software support, which were quickly remedied despite the media and stockholder over reaction. But the 3ds outpaced its predecessor out the gate, and maintained higher sales through its first year before the cut than the vita, which recently broke a new record in Japan: slowest to a million, beaten in sales by the dreamcast. Meaning this: the 3ds at $250 was seen as a higher value than the vita at $250. (Of course, the mandatory memory cards complicate and put off many and cannot be ignored)
Again your quick to the defense without thinking on what I just said, you mention E3 and the applause but were those the average consumers in the crowd? Or were those industry vets, employees and others related to that field? The 3DS cut the price is because like I just pointed out, as have others, $250 is just too expensive for just a dedicated gaming handheld now a days. "PC's can do a lot more than consoles yet console gaming is a hell of a lot more successful in terms of recognition and desire than PC gaming." Says who? I think a lot of people would disagree with your statement. There are just as many recognized games on PC than consoles. And a lot of multiplats support PC also. Not to mention the tremendous success of Steam which a lot of consoles seem to be heading too in terms of service. "Vita does not NEED a price cut. Sure, for those of you who are too cheap to pay the extra $50 (ironic considering how many people pay for Live or PS+ or other such subscriptions)" Again, you miss the point completely while in defense mode. People are not willing to payout $250 for a dedicated gaming ONLY device when there are other options out there that can do the same that are cheaper or other options that can do the same and even more. Live and PS+ are not relevant because those are tied to gaming at home, services that are used a lot more when spending time at your home. And $50 (sometimes even cheaper) a year compared to a one time purchase of $250?? Seriously, I don't even want to go into that convo. Personally I don't have anytime to fully game while I'm out so if I am out at a doctor's office, DMV or waiting for anything one of those "garbage" games is all the time have before moving on with whatever business I have outside. I think many others will say the same. "Stop judging Sony based on what Nintendo are doing." And you need to calm down, take some deep breaths and stop thinking that Nintendo is the only reason why people are asking for a price cut. The vita sales are not doing so hot and that is a fact. No matter how many people applauded at E3 is not changing what is happening now.
And you are underestimating the "DEMAND" for a hardcore dedicated handheld gaming console in today's marketplace DragonKnight. The Vita is a great piece of hardware. The game selection is decent. The price is reasonable. Yet it has struggled to get to even 3 million sold. There is no momentum heading into the holidays. Yet we're supposed to believe the Vita will be fine??? Tablets and phones are replacing handheld gaming consoles. The only reason Nintendo isn't getting hit as hard is because their product has a broader mass appeal and they seem to have mastered the type of games that sell on handhelds. PS Vita is in BIG trouble...
People applauded Sony's $250 price because it pulled the system even with 3DS. Then Nintendo was forced to flip the script, and from that point on, Vita was too expensive.
Why does everyone act like the only thing Sony sells is a Playstation Vita? It isn't going to kill them taking a loss on this system, Sony sells millions of other products that don't have anything to do with gaming. So why assume just because the Vita had a slow year, it will never succeed or needs all this help..? PS3 was the exact same situation but now everyone has a PS3 and it has been the best selling system for 2 years now. They may have taken losses sure but so did the 3DS which sold worse and had an immediate price cut at first which it deserved, the 3DS didn't even start selling heavily until almost 2 years after. the Vita really doesn't deserve the price cut people beg for sure for the Holiday or Black Friday but to expect it cut completely I think is absurd from a business perspective.. It is better than your iphone 5 hardware wise or most phones in general, the best handheld period right now, it is built very well obviously and not anywhere near as cheaply made as the 3DS. Yet everyone seriously expects it to sell as cheap as a 3DS can? The reason the 3DS could because it literally was a cheap device and Nintendo knew that, everyone knew they cut cost on production of all their systems practically and it shows, just like the Wii U doesn't have a mutlt-touch controller.. Mmm smell that cut cost again..? So Sony doesn't cut cost that would hinder the system, gives you a reasonable price for the device itself and is willing to lose money for you just to prove it is worth it and people still find reasons to scream price cut? The Vita is worth the price tag and it is truly sad that people are honestly giving Sony this hard of a time with a price that is not ridiculous by any means. iphone 5 cost more didn't see people complaining about the price of that yet the iphone 5 has cheaper hardware than the PS Vita and is actually a lot slower, hell the Vita is even better than Apple's new 4th generation ipad coming out and I promise you no one will give Apple any trouble about the price of their new ipad, which will no doubt be more than a PS Vita. The fact Sony is selling it for this cheap is astonishing to me period considering how anything else like it would be priced way higher. If they seriously cut the price, to mimic that of a cheap device like the 3DS for say $180 there is no way in hell Sony will make money from that nor would it make any sense for what it is actually worth. Plus Sony already invested $380 million into Gaikai to insure that Playstation will always be around not just on Playstation consoles / handhelds anymore but on any platform you could want in the future. To think Sony is just being stupid with the Vita is far fetched as no one else looks at anything else other than the sales and doesn't bother looking what Sony has done to secure a future in gaming for themselves. Realistically we could seriously be playing PS4 games, hell even PS5 games on your Vita in the future with something like Gaikai. To say Sony doesn't care, they aren't thinking about gaming and making so many mistakes blah blah blah is just being blind. I know just with Gaikai alone Sony could be the biggest thing in gaming period and if it ever did come to a day where consoles possibly did never exist anymore for some crazy reason, guess who would be the only ones prepared for that? Sony not anyone else. Give them a break already they are doing more for their costumers and their companies future than anyone else gaming wise right now, yet for some reason everyone just ignores all that and Says.. "Vita is failing, Sony is failing.." Just ridiculous.
Another long rant based of nothing but personal opinion. LOL Gaikai... Sony has announced nothing with it so far. Proclaiming it the biggest thing in gaming is beyond extreme. All of that and it was all based on something that Sony has announced nothing about... Before the PS3 launched Sony patented technology to read your brain waves, but you do not see it in the PS3 do you? I think you lack the basic understanding to see that game streaming isnt for today. Onlive proved that.I know you think Sony can do no wrong judging by your overly enthusiastic post about a yet unannounced feature but they have their limits just like any other company. Sony can use gaikai without ever matching it with the PS brand. They've got a big community of PC gamers playing on SOE. EQ,EQ2,PLanetside2, etc. Best selling ssytem for 2 years?LMAO playing PS4 on Vita...lmao OMG you gotta stop the blind loyalty. Ipad has a lot more uses than a Vita kid, that's shy people do not mind paying more. Its not a limited gaming console with some added features tacked on last minute. Also
listen the Vita is a awsome machine, there is no question about it. there may be some issues here and there (memory price), but it is a beast. Now, we can make excuses all we want and call it a marathon, sprint , tryalathon whatever, but the fact is it is not breaking ground in terms of sales. now I also know that Sony fans think that sales do not matter or whatever. But if we want sony to continue to produce these high end products, they are going to have to sell better. If this thing does not sell, at the end maybe Sony will decide to not make any more handhelds and we all loose. I personally think the price is worth it, the value is there, but here is the rubb, if no one buys it then it is irrelevant. So whether they get agressive with price even if they loose money now, or they keep running their marathon for the next four years and see what happens, maybe they will finish the race, but it might be their last. here is hoping that they turn things around.
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