Episode 116 – Homosexuality in the public square

Homosexuality somehow became a topic in episode 115. Phoenix from Talkingaboutgames.com wanted to have this conversation which apparently is part one of many.This segment was extracted from episode 115. Some of the things mentioned on this show include beastiality, adultery, hypocrisy and more. Listener discretion is advised and thanks for listening.

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First I would like to say I really appreciate the both of you can have a CIVIL conversation about such a touchy topic. Some of the bullet points annoy me though. Both of you sort of did a poor job arguing either point(in my opinion).

In a religious standpoint I understand where you might be coming from, yet it still seems fatally flawed. Homosexuality and Heterosexuality have a key factor that makes them inherently different from say... Bestiality and Pedophilia. Homo/Hetero relations are based on two "consenting" parties. Bestiality: An animal cannot consent to having sex mainly due to we don't have the same dialect and the the sexual advances to one will be assumed hostile. Pedophilia:Children can't consent to ANY kind of sex whole heartidly because they are going through puberty where sexual identities are still forming, making them highly prone to suggestion of someone more cultured.

You can name off all of the commandments and each and every one of them holds this same merit, that if someone is getting hurt while doing it....you shouldn't be doing it. Stealing,Lying,Cheating,Murder , etc. Where does Homosexuality stand on this ? You say it is a morality issue but what exactly about it is "morally" reprehensible (other than "because I said so")? There are no damaged parties, Simply two people of the same sex who care most about each other.

This is usually around the point a strongly religious person would argue "well gay's can't have children" which some how justifies the idea that it is a bad coupling. Well I beseech that with why does that even matter? God said be fruitful and multiply but that was a suggestion, not a prerequisite to get into heaven. People who cannot bare children, don't want children, or those that never get married at all are not evil for it are they? When you think about it logically, that excuse falls to pieces.

Moving on to what the Bible says on it. The Bible preaches about loving one another, and loving God mostly. Love is never a bad thing. The bible says very little about the supposed "Homosexuality" and how it is bad, it just says it is. This idea is first brought on by Saul/Paul. Paul was a sadist of sorts and always rushed to extremes before he found christ. He was a strong believer in an eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth. He sort of changed afterwards yet I feel that some of his previous sentiments still lingered. I mean just listen to that story, it is pretty ludicrous when you listen to it.

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Two Angels are having a civil conversation with Paul and friend when some drunk town fools make a very broad remark about how they want to have sex with the "pretty men" in their company. Paul reacts BADLY(proven by previous stories of him) and says take my daughter instead, just not the men. What? Basically he perpetuated Rape of a woman is better than Rape of a man, but by Jesus's standard all sins are equal so the fact that ever came out of his mouth bothers me. From that alone, I disregard what he would go on to say about the subject, for it was just another one of his rash condemings after being assaulted, lets say it is a sin all together.

And then it is restated a handful of times after in the bible.....but never ever touched on by Jesus. Jesus/God spoke of many things, but never do they say Homosexuality is a sin. Why is that? I mean you can take every word from the bible to heart but you have to admit, some of it is outdated in terms of Christian belief structure. Sacrificing animals,death for eating certain foods, Killing your children for back talking(another Paul idea), etc. Many of these things go directly against God's inherent laws(Don't Kill for example).

I actually accredit this Homosex biblical debacle to a "lost in translation" issue from when the bible was originally translated from egyptian/Hebrew. They never had a actual word for Homosexuality....just as we didn't for a very long time. The words Paul used are suspected to actually of been refering to the "Rape of men", Rape being the important part seeing as that is depriving someone of choice in the matter. Unfortunately it got swept up and Hate mongering religious fanatics took it and ran with it.

You asked him if he made the "choice" to be gay at some point in his life. No one chooses to be persecuted. Why would anyone choose a life where they will be destined to struggle? And one can say well "just don't be gay" but thats like saying just don't be left handed. You can't SEE the physical differentiation but it is indeed biological. You can force yourself to be another way, but it will never change the fact of what you really are, and you would always be incomplete for it. The idea that it is somehow better for a gay man to force himself to be with a woman he doesn't really love rather than be with someone he cares about is beyond me. That is not fair to either party.

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Yes, some are very conflicted with their sexuality. Yet this is less to do with them and more to do with social stigmas that dictate them. In other words the only reason they are conflicted is because we have such a judgmental society built on telling them they aught not to exist.....but they do.....so they contemplate stuff like suicide. Also, it is not as easy as just turning Sexuality on or off or being able to go from A to B. Any man will tell you, he can't fully control what he gets a boner for, it just happens. And sexuality really isn't as black and white as we try to portray it. I actually hate the term Hetero/Homo because they are not entirely indicative of the way our brains work. We are mostly, to a degree, Bisexual creatures that come in many different varients. This, along with the social stigmas, are what create sexual identity conflicts. If we just accepted that and stop trying to label ourselves and then demonize those not like us.

I do like where you two spoke of hypocrisy in all of us, and I think this radiates through all people(including some of those in the bible). We as man, love to judge others...because it takes us away from our many presumed faults and insecurities. Jesus put it perfectly as you stated. If we all concentrated on how to better our own lives and less about what everyone else is doing, we would be a lot happier.

After many years of study I cannot seem to find what is wrong with Homosexuality in a biblical or scientific standpoint.

I enjoyed listening to the both of you, first time on this site. I might return for later Podcasts