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Pachter: The Doctors Left Bioware Because of Whiners Like You

Analyst Michael Pachter says that there’s a very good chance the whining about Mass Effect 3 not having a happy enough ending for some of its fans may have been the straw that broke the camel’s back for Bioware founders Dr. Ray Muzyka and Dr. Greg Zeschuk, spurring on their departure from the company, and quite possibly the videogame industry altogether.

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Carl_Shocker1358d ago (Edited 1358d ago )

I'm getting sick of this...everytime people have concerns with a game they are always called whiners, haters or trolls

FF13, ME3, DA2, Dead Space 3, Resident Evil 5/6, Killzone 3s online, the L4D to L4D2 boycott thing etc

If something is wrong with a game and most of the fans speak out then theres something wrong with the way you've made your game or the way you've handled decisions for it.

It's the reason why we get treat like crap most of the time by developers because other people bash anyones opinion when they speak out...I mean why just because you like being treat like crap by a developer dosen't mean all of us do, your ruining gaming for the rest of us, do people feel the need to defend developers because they think there "being noble". I mean it's the reason why people who have problems with a game get worried incase they are called a "cry baby" or "whiner" when in fact al your doing is voicing your concerns over a game you've bought, it's probably the reason why most people don't speak out.

It's the reason why Square, Capcom, Activison, Bioware and EA are the way they are today....nobody said anything when things were going down hill and look whats happened to them.

We all thought

"Ahhh it's fine, lets give them a second chance" over and over again untill it was too late. Hell some people still do that today.

You know who's going to be next if we learn from past mistakes...Insomniac Games, EA stripping a once good looking, fun, creative game into something bland and generic well you know whats going to happen to them in the future, the same thing which happened to Bioware but your still going to get the "Lets give them a chance", "You need to play it before you judge", "Stop hating, you don't know anything"...yet we do because it's happened before to other games and developers.

lociefer1358d ago ImmatureShow
CommonSense1357d ago (Edited 1357d ago )

didn't sound like truth to me.

having actually watched this episode after seeing this article, i have to say, i agree with pachter. Gamers act like they are entitled to something even though they aren't the creative minds behind the creation of the franchises they love. gamers need to grow up.

to the doctors (not that you'll ever see this): i liked to the ME3 ending. best game in the series by far.

zeeshan1357d ago (Edited 1357d ago )

Shut up Pachter! Just shut the f*** up! I am so sick of this guy!

Gamers spend $60/game and support a single game generations after generation. They have EVERY right to voice their opinions and concerns. It seems like the voice of the gamers is soon going to be labelled as the voice of whiners.

Bimkoblerutso1357d ago

Obviously the death threats went way, way too far, but they deserve a great deal of the mess they got.

Usually I defend developer's choices when it comes to narrative and artistic vision, even if I don't particularly connect with it. But the ending can't even be defended under the pretense of artistic vision, because it's a fairly well-known fact that the publishers played a very big part in it's conception. I would have to say that that's something to bitch about, even in the subjective realm of art.

Add to that the fact that they removed an INTEGRAL character from the finished product and released it as day-one DLC, and I'd say you've given quite a few fans cause for being pissed off.

StanSmith1357d ago

I swear... If I see the new internet buzzwords "entitled", "whiners", or "cry-babies" once more, I will literally blow up the internet.

Mainsqueeze1357d ago

No, Pachter is completely right. There is a big difference between whining and constructive criticism. I would say the vast majority of what people were doing was whining, crying, and just being completely self entitled. Sorry but in no way did Bioware treat anybody like "crap" and if you think so you should literally look in the mirror and look at how people treated them after the ME3 ending. In the end EA didn't kill Bioware, The Doctors didn't kill Bioware, nope all the self entitled whiners did, and because of them Bioware's games will definitely not be the same ever again. And for the record i didn't think the ME3 Ending was anywhere near perfect, but i thought that the game was still very enjoyable and i didn't find the need to go on to every single forum that i'm registered to and make death threats like alot of people did.

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Outside_ofthe_Box1358d ago

Well Said.

I have no idea why people call it whining when there are literally essays written about what is wrong with the game. If anything that shows how much people love that particular game/franchise and want it to be the best it can be.

Carl_Shocker1358d ago

I understand if it was something small which the developers have accidently done or something which has been talked about in the wrong way during an interview but most of the time people have good solid points to back up there "complaints"

"I have no idea why people call it whining "

You know what I like to call it....someone learning from past mistakes

FF13 lightning returns is being bigged up like FF13-2 to have huge changes and to fix problems, like they are listening to fans. FF13 showed me they had lost touch with their FF fanbase, FF13-2 didn't improve hardly anything so why should people defend them with FF13 Lightning Returns

Resident Evil 5 became action like, we give them a chance and with RE6 they had ignored fans complaints and ruined the game even more. With RE7 in the future do you think I'm going to give them another chance...nope

Dead Space 3...after whats happened with RE6 people should know what will happen.

I could go on with this wrong with this gen and the games that at one time used to be part of a great franchise....some people like to think of it as being "negative" but with how ugly the games industry has gotten are people actually surprized that some people just can't be quite and take in all the horrible changes when we lived through the golden age of the gaming industry last gen and the gen before hand.

ziggurcat1357d ago

@ outside:

it's whining because it's a ****ing *video game*. it's not important enough to get your panties all up in a bunch over.

and if you (i mean "you" in the general sense, not you personally) spend the time to write an essay over the alleged flaws in a video game's ending, you really need to get a life and re-evaluate your priorities. it's about as pathetic as going to a star trek convention and pointing out continuity flaws to the cast.

it's one thing to voice your concern over functional issues that ruin a game's experience (i.e. skyrim on PS3), but sitting there and crying over an ending/character model just makes you look like a spoiled, entitled, whiny little brat.

and if the founders did leave actually bioware because of you basement-dwelling crybabies? yeesh...

or do you think that uttering death threats because of how they ended ME3 is acceptable?

AngelicIceDiamond1357d ago

Right, when there favorite game changes to much people get mad. But when there game changes to little people get mad.

Cod, Resident Evil, Dragon Age, Deadspace, Mass Effect.

All got there formulas changed or changed very little. What I find particularly annoying is the fans are aware of the changes (or lack of change) and still buy into it every time.

I honestly don't want it to come down to devs making games for the fans and completely throwing away there ideas and there work.

Now I understand, some of the decisions that devs make are kindergarten and think "who came up with that?" But they're the ones waking up every morning and have to come up with original ideas for games and sequels not us.

As far as this is concerned I'm in the middle. Fans are very loud and voicy and devs make Kindergarten decisions. Its a iffy situation.

LightofDarkness1357d ago (Edited 1357d ago )

Hey Ziggurcat.

Just because you clearly don't place much value on art in your own life doesn't mean that everyone else doesn't, and it certainly does not give you the right to be patronizing and downright insulting to those that do.

People like you disgust me. If you're so superior to all of us "basement-dwelling crybabies", why are you posting on a website that is practically dedicated to discussions like this? If you have no interest in such topics, why are you still here? Or could it be that you're upset because people valued your input so little that you have but one opportunity to speak in any article on this site?

Oh, here's a logic fail for you: "it's about as pathetic as going to a star trek convention and pointing out continuity flaws to the cast." No, that'd be akin to people complaining to the voice cast of Mass Effect about it. I don't believe there was very much of that, and the onus/focus was obviously on the creative arm of Bioware.

And of course people around here (by and large) don't condone death threats. That's a straw-man argument for one, but it's frankly sickening that you think it's OK to insinuate that they do.

Here's a piece of advice for you, Mr. Impotent Rage: get the f**k over yourself. You must have aching saddle sores from that high horse of yours.

Outside_ofthe_Box1357d ago (Edited 1357d ago )

lol @ ziggercat

The amount of agrees you have amazes me.

If video games aren't "important enough" why are you wasting your time commenting? Don't you have supposedly more important things to do that take priority over complaining about people complaining?

I obviously don't condone death threats and I don't understand what's wrong with someone voicing their concerns of a video game's ending or anything they like/dislike about a game for that matter. If you see it as someone who has no life and/or needs to get their priorities straight then that's you. I see it as someone who is passionate about that particular game and/or franchise and I don't give a **** if you see it as not having a life or pathetic.

When you put something out into the public eye it is open to BOTH praise and critique. Complaining or voicing your opinion on something doesn't make you entitled or spoiled or whiny.

Video games are "important enough" for me and as such I think it is acceptable for people to write novel on what they like/dislike about a game. Since video games aren't "important enough" for you I suggest you stop frequenting websites/forums that are obviously meant for people that do see video games as "important enough."

+ Show (2) more repliesLast reply 1357d ago
NonApplicable1357d ago

Dude... There were A LOT of whiners. How do you explain the death threats?

Chaotic_Lament1357d ago

Death threats are inexcusable. But critiquing a game is not whining.

FiachDubh1353d ago (Edited 1353d ago )

The same way you explain the death threats that any other service-product provider/business/etc. receives. As crazy idiots, who make us all look bad.

Of course, you have to have the common sense enough, not to lump them in with every single other person complaining/protesting.

How old are you, that you sincerely need this explained to you?

TacticAce1357d ago

While I understand where you are coming from I do believe that there are lines you just dont cross when criticizing and some mass effect fans crossed it.

Themba761357d ago

you left cod out that also should be on that list

360ICE1357d ago (Edited 1357d ago )

And actually, I'd say gamers are entitled to something.
Forget the obvious idea that you pay money for the game, but if gaming is supposed to be art, and art is supposed to artistically belong to everyone who experiences it, wouldn't that mean that the artist does have some responsibility for his or her fans?

Imagine if ME3 was the worst game ever, to take this to its logical extreme, then would Bioware not have ruined a world in which the ME fans are emotionally invested?

This is why people "whine" when they changed E.T. in the DVD re-release, and while I think the artist should be free to experiment, we should be equally free to criticise when we feel the experiment is going the wrong way.

nukeitall1357d ago

The problem isn't nobody said anything, but rather the people still bought the games!!!

Basically the people that don't care outnumber those that do care with a wide margin.

Money speaks the loudest, so vote with your money!!!

GraveKnight1357d ago

Entitled. Vote with your dollar. FF13 rocked. See, opinions are like......
hence the dilemma.

+ Show (6) more repliesLast reply 1353d ago
prototypeknuckles1358d ago

first off its not whining its a general complaint, and so what boo hoo they left the company because of criticism, game developers think there Hollywood anyway, so now you take the criticism someone in Hollywood gets, besides that big buissiness execs, and politicians get blasted a lot and yeah some of them leave, but a majority just keep going and don't act like babies and leave because of criticism

NYC_Gamer1358d ago (Edited 1358d ago )

Its fair criticism by fans who have the right to voice their opinions

Anon19741357d ago

True. Criticism is one thing. Harassment and death threats towards them and their staff is completely another. They made games because they wanted to entertain people. Because it was a passion. They funded it out of their own pockets to start. Years later people are threatening their staff with physical violence because they didn't like the ending of a game.

If you didn't need the money, would you stay in that industry?

nukeitall1357d ago

I'm not saying death threats (or any threats) are fine, but how many of them are actually real threats?

Point is, it is just immature behavior and it happens all the time in many other industries as well.

You are far more likely to get mugged walking down the street than a death threat ever being real.

If you make a popular product, you need thick skin. It is part of the territory.

wishingW3L1358d ago (Edited 1358d ago )

someone didn't read this:

Ray Muzyka: "I respect/revere fans, because they speak with deep, honest passion. Journalists speculating on ill-founded rumors should reassess approach."

"Good websites demand clarity and credibility lesser ones enable ill-informed individuals to make stuff up about other people."

https://twitter.com/RayMuzy...

wastedcells1357d ago (Edited 1357d ago )

Yep... Patcher knows how to get attention and isn't afraid to piss people off to do it. The more his videos are watched the more he gets paid in advertising royalties. He is a number cruncher first gamer seventh.

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