Can anyone clarify to me why emulating Apple would accelerate MS decline?
First of all, what you are used to with Windows still exist exactly as is. You can still patch for free, install whatever you want without interacting with then new Metro app marketplace.
Secondly, the platform holders grip if managed properly prevents crap appearing on the market place. Similar to how Valve removed a game about sex, which I disagree with by the way.
MS now has a secondary market unified with their Windows platform. This creates synergy, because right now my Kindle Fire and smart phone are completely separated from my PC. That is something I dislike very much. Ideally, everything would be synced across the cloud with something like SkyDrive or DropBox or something.
I don't see the negatives to consumers or developers, except that Valve is themselves "frustrated" with the turn of events and the threats to their own business.
So far, all I have heard is FUD with no real explanation so I would love to hear more!
Well if you actually read the article the context of the topic heading is misleading. He is referring to the acceleration of the frustrations and challenges within the business model, namely PC gaming. This topic reads as though Microsoft will decline as a whole. Two different things. Windows 8 will apparently makw things more difficult for companies like Steam. I personally think Windows 8 will be a flop and is more designed for the tablet market.
Microsoft knows that by controlling the market much like Apple is doing is far more profitable and easier to manage. Valve is more about taking down the walls and having mods and free updates which of course us PC gamers like. We like having more freedom.
I think Gave is referring to Windows 8 maybe becoming a close environment and how that will be more of a negative point than a positive point to microsoft.
One of the points he makes is the update screening of the Xbox(Close System) maybe been introduce to windows 8.
Win8 will do fine but it will hurt pc gaming in long run. It's not forcing it's storefront/close platform yet, but you have to realise people are morons. They won't know that and will start buying on the storefront. Storefront sales will go up. Forcing developers to use it in order to compete. Say hello to close platform on most of your software. Next windows rolls out and M$ will further its grip till one day it will be fully close platform.
Gabe doesnt mind having the closed system in Steam, which I consider the best application of DRM in PC gaming. IMO Apple and MS would love to be the last 2 standing (which I hope does not happen).
Starting to forget? I think starting to forget is an understatement. Its been like this since the Xbox has existed they have ceased 95% of their own game development for the Windows platform and launched a very bad service for it used to hope to constrain gamers with GFWL and now they are rebranding that and possibly constricting developers with it.
Valve might be making their own version of Linux to combat this. If true I am on-board with Valve. As they could launch a new game platform like this if they wanted to do so and everyone would flock to it. If its based on Linux there is a good chance it could be a Free entry to it.
I have to disagree and they have not bought Nokia. Nokia are a partner with Microsoft just like samsung htc lg are in the phone msrket the only difference is nokia are exclusive partners and in this ms are letting them do things with the os no one else is doing and in return nokia are giving ms nokia maps ect to help with bing maps.
As for MS copying everyone this is also wrong Apple are the company who now copy everyone else.
MS had a smart phone way before Apple and its the same for tablets.
MS have copied some things but that is what all companies do but as this is how products are improved.
Im glad that Microsoft Apple and google are now all looking to get into the same markets as just like the console market it keeps them all pushing each other amd trying to out do each other and most of all gives us the users choice rather than all having to have the se thing.
I don't like most of these corporations, but even I know Apple had the motivation to make the Tablet mainstream. Apples opportunity is Microsoft's loss.
Microsoft needs to "do first" or fall behind. The mobile space is a perfect example.
Every company have their dark secrets and scandals. Its just funny that Apple have plenty and nobody cares. They'll still make billions of dollars and sell millions of devices.
I wouldn't be surprised if one day they patent their own religion and sue anything else that has any similarities.
Well I would say Gaben is only "respected" for his games. Other than that its his outspoken comments that make him a celebrity. First he is moaning the PS3 is too hard to develop for. Then he is moaning about Microsoft's approach with XBL. I personally lost a lot of respect for him with his comments. Especially considering Valve is supposed to be one of the most respected companies in the industry. If they are the great game designers they claim to be stuff like this shouldn't bother them.
I used to respect them, but recent things have changed my mind.
For instance, Valve never really embraced Linux, but is now all of a sudden the savior.
Valve disliked Sony's approach, but is now their best friend.
Valve used to like Xbox, but now all of a sudden hates them.
Valve also removed the ability for class action law suits and so on.
Valve is no longer the company it used to be and I don't know if that is because of the competition or Valve, but I can't say I like them as much as I used to.
They are now just another game company as opposed to one I would heartily recommend to my friends.
Valve/Steam offers a rock solid service, their community is second to none, they're support with games (PC) unrivalled, their content and sales again, unrivalled. They're the benchmark for digital distribution. Cross platform support of your games between Mac and PC (even PS3), cross platform cloud saves etc etc (all this for free)
But their sometimes, outspoken chairman said something bad about a console? Must delete Steam now!!!
I love Valves games, but I don't much like what Valve has become. Valve is the EA of the PC world and they flip flop as much as a politician. Past ten years Gabe has nothing but take jabs at everyone. I wish he would just shut up and put that energy into making Half life 3.
Gabe is an idiot, MS is taking on Apple head on, in the battle for the living room, of course theres gonna be some copying.
...mean while in a top secret bunker in the far east, Sony head honcho's discuss their tactic for the comming generation of consoles:
Boardmember: "The same procedure as last year, Miss Sophie?".
CEO: "The same procedure as every year, James"
"The same procedure as every year, James."
Agreed. Apple is too popular, although I don't like their products, they are the NEW microsoft.
They make products where only their expensive add-ons are compatible and they break easily. Can't tell you how many apple products of mine have broken down, that's why I avoid them (iAvoid??).
Regardless, Gabe only looks after Gabe. He was screaming at Sony until they allowed Steam for PS3, and he is screaming at MS for competing with steam (the inferior GFWL).
I can only imagine how angry he is going to be when Sony use Gakai to their own advantage. Gonna be 2006 all over again lol.
many companies report good profits and their stock price still falls, as those profits aren't what they really should be. a good example is facebook a few weeks back.
and considering that Microsoft was once worth $600 billion and now at around $200 billion, you could say that they should be doing a lot better.
and I don't think anybody values a company's performance solely based on economic performance (but of course it's the most obvious method). I think just like Gabe here, you have to look at the ideas, policies, attitudes etc. of that company to see the direction of that company.
I dunno man I ain't no economist but you can't look at numbers that simplistically in the real economic world. in the fanboy world yes, maybe (not implying that you're a fanboy)
I have a master degree in economics so I know a thing or two about it.
Here are some points to consider:
- 2009 was a very bad year for the IT segment. Check the numbers above.
- The facebook IPO was a nightmare and the stock price was overpriced like I have never seen it before.
- MS worth was $600 billion, just before the .com bubble bursted. A lot of IT companys were overvalued and not reasonable priced. In fact, MS is in a much better position than it was in 2000.
- MS market cap is 260 billion and not 200 billion.
Windows 8, Xbox 3, .NET Framework 4.5, Surface are all exciting products that yet have to launch. Sure fat Gabe is trying to protect Steam and nothing else, but you can't say a company is on decline, when revenue, profit, number of employees are all going up.
Sony announced that they will cut 10k jobs, cuts the forecast and writes red numbers - that is a decline.
Who said MS is copying apple anyways? I just don't see it. why cause they have a marketplace and a tablet. MS marketplace has always been locked down. Gabe needs to focus on his products before taking pot shots at MSs
How is Microsoft copying Apple? Windows 8 is an extension of the Windows phone platform, of which Apple not only admitted, but actually used a Windows 8 phone in court as an example of a company NOT copying Apple. Gabe, as usual, makes himself look like a raving idiot. Valve owes its ridiculous success to Microsoft for making the Windows platform so easily accessible and for creating a market large enough for something like Steam to flourish in.
It's becoming clearer every day why I see these comments from Gabe Newell, it's about money. Valve wants Steam to have little competition so he bashes companies that will take market shares away from Steam. He makes these comments hoping that gamers will rally around him/Valve and follow his lead so he doesn't lose money. A very desperate, pathetic man.
...Still waiting for his innovation on PS3 with Steam.
Please read the damn article. But since you didn't obviously bother here goes the section that justifies his argument:
"For its Xbox business, Microsoft insists on screening all game updates and charges developers tens of thousands of dollars for certification. Its PC operating systems, however, freely allow updates without interference. Newell is concerned that Windows 8 will emulate the Xbox policy, prompting him to brand the new operating system "a catastrophe"."
Do you remember the Fez fiasco? How they were unable to send a patch to XBL due to the exorbitant fees? Since steam practically has updates at the games periodically, HOW MUCH DO YOU THINK MS WOULD MAKE IF THEY IMPLEMENTED THAT POLICY? That would be a serious detriment to gaming itself and it should and MUST be criticized.
I just can't understand that argument as I am using Windows 8 right now and have tons of games installed on it. NONE of them are using the GFWL, or the XBOX built in button on the start screen.
In fact, Steam is installed and updates with no problems whatsoever and I know that MS is not charging Gave for the updates.
I like Gabe for the most part, but this is just childish bs. Steam doesn't use the XBOX brand to sell their games, they use the Steam brand. Unless they release their games under the XBOX brand on the PC, I don't see the problem.
In its current form, Windows 8 is not a threat to Gabe or any game maker unless they release through the XBOX brand. Applications can still be installed the good ole' fashioned way.
@FragMnTagM What's not to understand? What I'm quoting in the concern that MS may implement that kind fee OUTSIDE XBL and onto windows 8. Nobody is saying that W8 will implement that but IF they did, then the argument is valid. It really is that simple and the more awareness the community has may actually prompt MS to actually be more wary in their business decisions.
The only thing I want to hear out ol Gabes mouth is the launch dates for Half Life 3 and Left 4 Dead 3. Untill then he needs to quit cryin. Valve is a software company that has garnered its success through its games and its fan base. Its time for Gabe to quit talkin shit and start releasing some games their fan base have patiently been waiting for. Or one of these days you may turn around and find that your fan base is gone.
Haha how so? PC gamers despise MS. Go check ANY PC forum.
As for your assertion us PC gamers will tire of the wait, it holds no merit. Valve isn't 3D Realms, living out their Nolan Bushnell fantasies while the public waits a decade for Duke. No my friend, in that timespan, Valve released Portal 1&2, TF2 went f2p while adding a horde mode, L4D became an official retail product with a subsequent sequel, got another update to Counterstrike, and soon will be enjoying a f2p DOTA2. Waiting on Half-Life 3? You betcha. L4D3? Umm no, not when I can play over 25 four star campaigns created by modders....
Gabe is afraid of competing with MS in the field of distribution. Valve fears that windows store will try to replace steam. Windows 8 works just as well as 7 from my experience.
So why buy Windows 8? The problem that Gabe forsees and I believe is correct is a future closed OS.
I think this store front thing will create a major headache for MS, abusing Monopoly powers. Which is the same thing that happened between Internet Explorer and web browser companies.
Because windows 8 unites phones, tablets, and pcs. Although it wouldn't benefit me since I have then new iPad, galaxy s3, and a custom build pc, I believe that a gamer with all 3 devices shouldn't be afaird of getting it. A store makes the system closed? I installed steam just fine and was gaming perfectly under windows 8. It's not like it forces you to use the store.
Unless there is an update that is coming that forces all games to be run under the XBOX brand on Win 8, then everything will be just how it is right now.
The only thing that will change is the start screen, but everything will launch and run faster.
As soon as I click on anything in Win 8, it opens in under a second. Some programs in 7 take about 10 to 20 seconds to open sometimes.
My custom built PC from power button ON to desktop is 1:15 when I boot 7. On Windows 8, a mere 20 seconds.
I still don't see why everyone is hating on Windows 8.
It runs extremely fast, it is sleek, everything is in one spot at the start screen, the apps are clean and uncluttered like the weather and maps apps (among others.)
The only thing I see and hear about the negatives of Win 8 are: WAHHHH it has an XBOX button on the start screen, WAAAAHH it is not the same as Windows 7.
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First of all, what you are used to with Windows still exist exactly as is. You can still patch for free, install whatever you want without interacting with then new Metro app marketplace.
Secondly, the platform holders grip if managed properly prevents crap appearing on the market place. Similar to how Valve removed a game about sex, which I disagree with by the way.
MS now has a secondary market unified with their Windows platform. This creates synergy, because right now my Kindle Fire and smart phone are completely separated from my PC. That is something I dislike very much. Ideally, everything would be synced across the cloud with something like SkyDrive or DropBox or something.
I don't see the negatives to consumers or developers, except that Valve is themselves "frustrated" with the turn of events and the threats to their own business.
So far, all I have heard is FUD with no real explanation so I would love to hear more!
Microsoft knows that by controlling the market much like Apple is doing is far more profitable and easier to manage. Valve is more about taking down the walls and having mods and free updates which of course us PC gamers like. We like having more freedom.
One of the points he makes is the update screening of the Xbox(Close System) maybe been introduce to windows 8.
Does anyone remember the Fex fiasco?
http://www.joystiq.com/2012...
can you imagine how this might effect indie developers if they have to pay to update their games on Windows 8.
But yeah i think the tittle is a little misleading but the point they are trying to make is very important specially for PC gamers
Valve might be making their own version of Linux to combat this. If true I am on-board with Valve. As they could launch a new game platform like this if they wanted to do so and everyone would flock to it. If its based on Linux there is a good chance it could be a Free entry to it.
The windows8 is clearly aimed to the portable market and the newXbox(they want to win the living room war so badly lol).
As for MS copying everyone this is also wrong Apple are the company who now copy everyone else.
MS had a smart phone way before Apple and its the same for tablets.
MS have copied some things but that is what all companies do but as this is how products are improved.
Im glad that Microsoft Apple and google are now all looking to get into the same markets as just like the console market it keeps them all pushing each other amd trying to out do each other and most of all gives us the users choice rather than all having to have the se thing.
A little research goes a long way
Microsoft needs to "do first" or fall behind. The mobile space is a perfect example.
I wouldn't be surprised if one day they patent their own religion and sue anything else that has any similarities.
For instance, Valve never really embraced Linux, but is now all of a sudden the savior.
Valve disliked Sony's approach, but is now their best friend.
Valve used to like Xbox, but now all of a sudden hates them.
Valve also removed the ability for class action law suits and so on.
Valve is no longer the company it used to be and I don't know if that is because of the competition or Valve, but I can't say I like them as much as I used to.
They are now just another game company as opposed to one I would heartily recommend to my friends.
Valve/Steam offers a rock solid service, their community is second to none, they're support with games (PC) unrivalled, their content and sales again, unrivalled. They're the benchmark for digital distribution. Cross platform support of your games between Mac and PC (even PS3), cross platform cloud saves etc etc (all this for free)
But their sometimes, outspoken chairman said something bad about a console? Must delete Steam now!!!
Valve disliked Sony's approach, but is now their best friend. "
Are these two negative?
Valve used to like Xbox, but now all of a sudden hates them. "
This is the reason you hate Valve right here.
...mean while in a top secret bunker in the far east, Sony head honcho's discuss their tactic for the comming generation of consoles:
Boardmember: "The same procedure as last year, Miss Sophie?".
CEO: "The same procedure as every year, James"
"The same procedure as every year, James."
I was going to put more, but it's not worth the effort.
!
3/10 for ridiculousness.
Windows 8 is retarded. Windows Phone 8 is a flop.
Microsoft became the company it is because of original ideas. Trying to compete with Apple by copying everything they do is a bankrupt idea.
They make products where only their expensive add-ons are compatible and they break easily. Can't tell you how many apple products of mine have broken down, that's why I avoid them (iAvoid??).
Regardless, Gabe only looks after Gabe. He was screaming at Sony until they allowed Steam for PS3, and he is screaming at MS for competing with steam (the inferior GFWL).
I can only imagine how angry he is going to be when Sony use Gakai to their own advantage. Gonna be 2006 all over again lol.
I must have missed that.
2007: 51 bn USD revenue
2008: 60 bn USD revenue
2009: 58 bn USD revenue
2010: 62 bn USD revenue
2011: 70 bn USD revenue
2012: 74 bn USD revenue
--> + 23 bn USD in the past 5 years (+45 % !!!)
2007: 78k employees
2008: 91k employees
2009: 93k employees
2010: 89k employees
2011: 90k employees
2012: 94k employees
--> + 16k employees in the past 5 years (+ 20%)
OMG MS DECLINES!!
many companies report good profits and their stock price still falls, as those profits aren't what they really should be. a good example is facebook a few weeks back.
and considering that Microsoft was once worth $600 billion and now at around $200 billion, you could say that they should be doing a lot better.
and I don't think anybody values a company's performance solely based on economic performance (but of course it's the most obvious method). I think just like Gabe here, you have to look at the ideas, policies, attitudes etc. of that company to see the direction of that company.
I dunno man I ain't no economist but you can't look at numbers that simplistically in the real economic world. in the fanboy world yes, maybe (not implying that you're a fanboy)
Here are some points to consider:
- 2009 was a very bad year for the IT segment. Check the numbers above.
- The facebook IPO was a nightmare and the stock price was overpriced like I have never seen it before.
- MS worth was $600 billion, just before the .com bubble bursted. A lot of IT companys were overvalued and not reasonable priced. In fact, MS is in a much better position than it was in 2000.
- MS market cap is 260 billion and not 200 billion.
Windows 8, Xbox 3, .NET Framework 4.5, Surface are all exciting products that yet have to launch. Sure fat Gabe is trying to protect Steam and nothing else, but you can't say a company is on decline, when revenue, profit, number of employees are all going up.
Sony announced that they will cut 10k jobs, cuts the forecast and writes red numbers - that is a decline.
Lol you must want them to be like apple.
Apple is smarter than MS. They have ios for iphone and osx for macs for a reason.. MS wants to put one thing on everything.
But in the end all this is to promote xbox.
...Still waiting for his innovation on PS3 with Steam.
"For its Xbox business, Microsoft insists on screening all game updates and charges developers tens of thousands of dollars for certification. Its PC operating systems, however, freely allow updates without interference. Newell is concerned that Windows 8 will emulate the Xbox policy, prompting him to brand the new operating system "a catastrophe"."
Do you remember the Fez fiasco? How they were unable to send a patch to XBL due to the exorbitant fees? Since steam practically has updates at the games periodically, HOW MUCH DO YOU THINK MS WOULD MAKE IF THEY IMPLEMENTED THAT POLICY? That would be a serious detriment to gaming itself and it should and MUST be criticized.
In fact, Steam is installed and updates with no problems whatsoever and I know that MS is not charging Gave for the updates.
I like Gabe for the most part, but this is just childish bs. Steam doesn't use the XBOX brand to sell their games, they use the Steam brand. Unless they release their games under the XBOX brand on the PC, I don't see the problem.
In its current form, Windows 8 is not a threat to Gabe or any game maker unless they release through the XBOX brand. Applications can still be installed the good ole' fashioned way.
What's not to understand? What I'm quoting in the concern that MS may implement that kind fee OUTSIDE XBL and onto windows 8. Nobody is saying that W8 will implement that but IF they did, then the argument is valid. It really is that simple and the more awareness the community has may actually prompt MS to actually be more wary in their business decisions.
PC gamers despise MS. Go check ANY PC forum.
As for your assertion us PC gamers will tire of the wait, it holds no merit. Valve isn't 3D Realms, living out their Nolan Bushnell fantasies while the public waits a decade for Duke. No my friend, in that timespan, Valve released Portal 1&2, TF2 went f2p while adding a horde mode, L4D became an official retail product with a subsequent sequel, got another update to Counterstrike, and soon will be enjoying a f2p DOTA2. Waiting on Half-Life 3? You betcha. L4D3? Umm no, not when I can play over 25 four star campaigns created by modders....
The problem that Gabe forsees and I believe is correct is a future closed OS.
I think this store front thing will create a major headache for MS, abusing Monopoly powers. Which is the same thing that happened between Internet Explorer and web browser companies.
Unless there is an update that is coming that forces all games to be run under the XBOX brand on Win 8, then everything will be just how it is right now.
The only thing that will change is the start screen, but everything will launch and run faster.
As soon as I click on anything in Win 8, it opens in under a second. Some programs in 7 take about 10 to 20 seconds to open sometimes.
My custom built PC from power button ON to desktop is 1:15 when I boot 7. On Windows 8, a mere 20 seconds.
I still don't see why everyone is hating on Windows 8.
It runs extremely fast, it is sleek, everything is in one spot at the start screen, the apps are clean and uncluttered like the weather and maps apps (among others.)
The only thing I see and hear about the negatives of Win 8 are: WAHHHH it has an XBOX button on the start screen, WAAAAHH it is not the same as Windows 7.
Haters gonna hate.