650°
Submitted by Emilio_Estevez 796d ago | article

Darksiders II dev: 'Working at Vigil was a nightmare'

Destructoid:

After being unexpectedly fired by Vigil Games and having his life in shambles due to relocating, Darksiders II UI designer Xander Davis took to Twitter when he found out that his name didn’t make the credits of the game that caused him so much misery. (Darksiders 2, PC, PS3, THQ, Vigil Games, Wii U, Xander Davis, Xbox 360)

Axonometri  +   796d ago
Scratch...
#1 (Edited 796d ago ) | Agree(8) | Disagree(2) | Report | Reply
Amaterasu5   796d ago | Trolling | show
fei-hung  +   796d ago
I hate it when game devs or ex devs whine like this. I've been working for 14 years of my life and had various jobs ranging from office to labour work. Onething I have learnt is that there is hardly any industry out there that acknowledges the graft put in by the average joe. However, we do not complain, we get on with our jobs.

Its like footballers falling over at every other step crying their eyes out!
Perjoss  +   796d ago
If no one complains things just stay the same or get worse. You might be happy to spend most of your time at work but some people have hobbies and families.

There is 1 thing you will never catch anyone saying on their death bed: "I wish I had spent more time at work"
fei-hung  +   795d ago
Dont understand how 5 people misunderstood what i said. I was on about enjoying work or working everyday of my life. I was referring to the average person who has to work and doesnt get extra credit for his/ her contribution outside of the salary, but they go on doing their job. They dont slag of their employer.

Do you think this dev had it harder than a single mum working at a supermarket or a dad having to have 2 jobs to support his family or a young person going through university and juggling a job or 2 to keep afloat?

They dont all take to social network sites moaning about their employer do tgey?
Withdreday  +   795d ago
A dev trashing his former employer? Not very classy...
Gr81  +   796d ago
From Reading
His comments, I can't imagine why a company wouldn't want to keep an employee like him around. What a ray of sunshine.
HebrewHammer  +   796d ago
Dude, he worked on the game and didn't even make the credits. That's rough.
beerkeg  +   796d ago
Because he, along with his team, screwed up what he was supposed to do. If you get employed to do a job and don't do it satisfactorily, you tend to get sacked.
#2.1.1 (Edited 796d ago ) | Agree(22) | Disagree(17) | Report
HebrewHammer  +   796d ago
I see your point, but regardless. They decided to hire him. He put in the work. They subsequently fired him.

Lot's of crap games have come out over the years, but everyone has their name in the credits. So why should his contribution to the work, albeit even if sub-par, be omitted entirely?
ronin4life  +   796d ago
@HH
This i not a new or recent trend in this industry. Several industry workers have been excluded from the credits in games they make, and many have been solid contributors.
Hayabusa 117  +   796d ago
"Lot's of crap games have come out over the years, but everyone has their name in the credits"

Oh really? So HebrewHammer, do you have a list names of everyone who has ever worked on a game? Can you match that list against the credits of every single game ever made?

I know you can't because I know people who have worked on games and not received credit, not because they got sacked, but simply because they were contracted. I know other people who were credited just because they happened to be working the week the credits went it, despite contributing virtually nothing to the game. There are probably loads of people who have not been credited.

Why do people talk about sht they have no knowledge in?
Panthers  +   796d ago
Why are credits required at all for games? Does anyone care about each individual game maker? These people need to get over themselves. When I buy any other product, there isnt a list of every single person involved in making that product. And that is because no one cares.

This guy needs to get over himself.
Kin23g  +   795d ago
@Panthers
You don't care about the credits, neither do I. But other developers who are looking to hire do care.

Think of it this way: you play a certain game, you like it's music, when the credits begins rolling you look for the soundtracks composer's name, you contact him and ask him if he's willing to work for you. See? credits do matter.
Kin23g  +   795d ago
Stupid double post.
#2.1.7 (Edited 795d ago ) | Agree(1) | Disagree(0) | Report
lonesoul65  +   796d ago
good luck with him getting a job in the future running his mouth like that...people so quickly forget how fast the internet can make you a hero or a goat
Emilio_Estevez  +   796d ago
Your opinion is even more justified by the 'updates' in the article.
ChunkyLover53  +   796d ago
This is the same idiot who said the Wii U is a $400 Xbox 360 seven years late, even though he never worked with the Wii U at all.

He just sounds really bitter.
Captain Qwark 9  +   796d ago
indeed, ive heard a bunch of horror stories similar to this one from various friends of mine about jobs they were fired from. i sit, i listen, i nod my head and agree with them that the world is against them and the company treated them badly despite how good they were......

but in reality, i know them, i know them well, and i know that they are full of it and they suck at their job and were fired rightfully so. they are just bitter, prob the same case here. rarely does an individual who is performing well get laid off for any reason other than money
chukamachine  +   796d ago
The wii u is an xbox/ps3.

I haven't seen a single title from the wii-u that looks any better.
ChunkyLover53  +   796d ago
Most devs that aren't bitter and that are working on Wii U have said that its more powerful than those consoles.

Looks like Assassins Creed 3 will run 1080p and 60fps on the Wii U.

We have to remember that early games on a new console in a console generation wont look as good as games will look a year or two down the road. I mean if you've ever played the first Saints Row on the Xbox 360, and compare it to Saints Row 3 on the Xbox 360, you'll see a drastic improvement.
yabhero  +   796d ago
Flash back to 2006:
Some idiot says "PS3 launch games don't look that much better that late gen Xbox games... I guess this means this is what games look for the next 5 years."
Guess that guy was wrong... And we have Uncharted and the Last of Us to prove it..
Funny... You sound just like him...
sikbeta  +   796d ago
@chuk

I know you're joking/trolling or whatever but I'm telling you, no way it's at the same level of current gen HW, even for manufacturers, they move on to better or more optimized hardware every time, for Nintendo to ask for 7 years old parts to build a console would be just insane in the worst way possible...
WeskerChildReborned  +   796d ago
What do you expect? He got fired and now he's trying to troll Vigil games. Don't know why he's trolling the Wii U though.
slugg  +   796d ago
Im sure that sucks,
but way to make sure no other game company ever wants to hire you. Dumb@$$
bothebo  +   796d ago
haha that made me laugh
beerkeg  +   796d ago
Why? Because you couldn't do your job properly? I've heard about the state the UI is on Darksiders 2 on pc.
#6 (Edited 796d ago ) | Agree(15) | Disagree(5) | Report | Reply
SeekDev  +   796d ago
He had 30 days to design a bug-free UI and then another 30 days to add bug-free features. This is damn near impossible. Cut him some slack, he tried, but given the timeline failed. Vigil had to expect this would happen. It's their fault too.
richierich  +   796d ago
Is this the same guy thats bitching about the WiiU?
nintendojunkie28   796d ago | Immature | show
WeskerChildReborned  +   796d ago
Yep, he seems real immature if he's gonna troll something he never even touched or used.
dubal-e   796d ago | Trolling | show | Replies(2)
DarthJay  +   796d ago
I have followed Xander on Twitter since Transformers: War For Cybertron came out because he tweeted a link to my review, and though I don't know him, I sincerely believe what he says 100%. For months now he has spoken glowingly about Darksiders II and how he did the UI work and like Jim Sterling said in the comment section of the article, he was retweeting tons of positive reviews and the like. The he found out and reacted like a person that had just received the ultimate insult.

Crappy stuff.

Vigil's response is pretty ridiculous, too. They only wanted to give credit to the people that worked on the game that left because of the layoff? How about you give credit where credit is due. It doesn't matter how long he was there, three months out of two and a half years is still a long time regardless of what someone else did, and even if his 90% number were a little high in regard to how much work he put into it, if they used ANY of his work, he deserves credit.

Weak.
HaVoK308  +   796d ago
Game Devs are the whiniest bitches ever. Come do some blue collar work with me. They don't know what real hard work is.
Gr81  +   796d ago
LoL
I do hear you, there are a lot of whiny punks afraid of blue collar work (especially this new younger entitled generation), but I do think there is also a stigma against game devs or computer software engineers in general that think they spend their time at a desk doing easy work looking up star trek wikipedias.

I think we have to becareful in saying they don't do 'real work' because creating something enjoyable for others is actually painstakingly difficult, and in most cases the process isn't enjoyable for the devs at all.

I'm very pro worker, especially when those at the top are left largely untouched for making bad business decisions that cause blue collar workers to get laid off. They get all the glory for the good, no blame for the bad.

But this particular individual, while understandably bitter, doesn't sound like someone who loves what they do. Had I been a game dev, whether I'm contracted to work on a Sony, M$, or Nintendo platform wouldn't shit on any of them or have the bias' I have now in regards to them. I'd be happy being able to do what I love, and would welcome the challenge of being tasked with developing a game for Kinect Move or the Wii U.

He claims he's being taken out of context, but when you say something sucks, what else are people supposed to put into context?
ChickeyCantor  +   796d ago
Everytime a developer tries to talk positively about their working circumstances. It feels like they are sugar coating it. It's a harsh business. It demands a lot from their workers. I can't imagine the stress they have working those endless hours trough.
killerhog  +   796d ago
Wow, coming from someone who probably never did game design and doesn't know how tough it can be, gives a statement like that.
#10.2 (Edited 796d ago ) | Agree(6) | Disagree(3) | Report | Reply
cgoodno  +   796d ago
From someone who's done both, that's a very ignorant statement to make.

I used to do merchandising with a furniture company. It was 10-12 hour work days, work every holiday, work every weekend, and involved moving furniture into the warehouse, onto the floor, putting things together, and just constantly being involved in manual labor.

I have also worked with a large company as a programmer. It involved 14 hour work days sitting behind a computer producing code on a rapid basis. Having to jump through hoops to meet management needs and dealing with goals that were next to impossible to meet. As I got into senior levels, I found myself doing my usual work and having to hold the hands of others as I managed their work and told them how and what to do. I also found myself working very long work days, sometimes two or three days in a row while sleeping in my office for a few hours at a time. And I didn't work in the game industry, which during crunch time is even worse.

Sure, I make a lot more money as a programmer, but in the end my hourly worth was about the same because of how much more I had to put into my job without overtime.

To somehow put down people because they work behind a desk all day as being easier and not at all a tax on the individual is ignorant, to say the least. Especially people who sit day in and day out to bring you games that you can enjoy and do it without overtime pay and for salaries that rarely are representative of their actual worth.

In all honestly, work in all fields can be difficult. It doesn't require that you be physical in what you do or move around a lot. Nor does it require that you think more about the work you do.
#10.3 (Edited 796d ago ) | Agree(18) | Disagree(2) | Report | Reply
Septic  +   796d ago
Ameen.

+ Bubb......oh wait
VanillaBear   796d ago | Off topic | show
WildArmed  +   796d ago
Well said.

-Bubble, I figure if we can get your bubble count down, then we can bubble you back up.
cgoodno  +   796d ago
You can say what you want, VanillaBear. Until you've walked a mile in my shoes, though... your opinion of me doesn't hold much weight at all.

As far as bubble votes, you should note that it's 99.99% done by the community. For example, you haven't had a mod bubble vote any of your comments in the last 30 days at all, but more than 100 other people have.

You should also note that neither moderators or admins made the bubble system. We just moderate it. Your complaints should go to the people who actually program the site.
#10.3.4 (Edited 796d ago ) | Agree(5) | Disagree(3) | Report
user5467007   796d ago | Off topic | show
InTheZoneAC  +   796d ago
darksiders 1 was a solid game, if 2 is just as good that's fine by me.

with these talks I'm debating whether to buy the game later new or used. I'm not spending $60 on this, but a few months from now I don't know if I want to give the publisher any money from this.
josephayal  +   796d ago
woaa a nightmare? dont worry, for $20 box DS2 is not a bad deal
Adolph Fitler  +   796d ago
Yep, the Wii-U is just a 360 with a gimmicky, overpriced controller....anybody with half a brain knows that, as Nintendo DO NOT do losses. They will not sell a machine at a loss, so the fact that sits along side that, that anybody who thinks realistically knows, is that Nintendo HAVE to use OLD tech in the actual unit, to be able to make money, & especially considering that stupid a$$ controller is gonna use up development & manufacturing finances that could have gone into making the actual machine perform better.

So, that taken into regard, it is more than likely that Wii-U WON'T be as powerful as 360/PS3, & will be lucky to be slightly more powerful than Wii. So it may just be a Wii with HD capabilities. I mean, Wii is just a Gamecube really with a dumb a$$ controller that is no more useful than a standard pad, just like this new tablet, that apparently isn't a tablet will be. I mean, theres really no practical use that this control method poses.

Now, after saying that, this guy is obviously terrible at what he was employed to do, & now wants his name attached to a AAA title. Wow, could have never seen this coming hey Vigil. Maybe in future they screen there future employees more carefully, so as not to employ morons like this fame seeking whore.
nintendojunkie28  +   796d ago
Definitely one of the dumbest,most ill informed comments I've ever read(which was not easy to do btw).

Completely absurd,pure drivel...especially the second paragraph.

What are you on?
yabhero  +   796d ago
Wow... almost everything in the first two paragraphs was wrong... what's it like in your head?
Karlnag3  +   796d ago
If were to hazard a guess (which I will) I'd say cloudy.
x5exotic  +   796d ago
Oh look a mediocre game and this time it doesn't even have good graphics

What year is this? 1800?
Kran  +   796d ago
Just shut up.

This clearly proves you've not played it all the way through like many have.
x5exotic  +   795d ago
No thanks it sucks.
attilayavuzer  +   796d ago
How does one irrelevant asshole get two articles at the top of the site regarding completely dubious opinions.
BelieveinGhosts  +   796d ago
Wow, it seems that N4g is not only full of Trolls but also full of heartless individuals. This guy is brave enough to go up against a game company like Vigil and most of you think he is being childish.

He knows the risks of telling the truth but he has the balls to actually do something about it unlike most of you.

This story suggests that the game industry is not so different from the merchandise industry where big Brands use sweat shops in Africa and Asia to create their products. Whilst giving no credit what so ever to the workers who spent countless hours striving to make ends meet
#16 (Edited 796d ago ) | Agree(2) | Disagree(7) | Report | Reply
TiberusX87  +   796d ago
I find it ironic that he's fighting the fact that he was not credited for his work (90 days), yet has not taken to fight, defend or explain why he was fired.

I agree that if someone is terminated, they do not deserve credit for any work done with the company.

Relevant: http://www.youtube.com/watc...
primesuspect  +   796d ago
I read a comment earlier from a person who is lifelong friends with a long-time Vigil employee. This person confirmed that Xander Davis was a diva and a pain in the ass to work with, and that he was fired for poor performance before his 90 days. It's Vigil company policy to not include anyone in the credits who has worked less than 90 days.
Zha1tan  +   796d ago
link?
Lord_Sloth  +   795d ago
primesuspect  +   795d ago
Link was on Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/Gam...
FragGen  +   795d ago
Thanks. This sort of info influences my opinion on the matter. There's always three sides to every story as they say.
dubal-e  +   796d ago
I'm a HUGE Nintendo fan but I still think Darksiders is just an average game. IMOP, I'm not buying it at launch, Zombie U, Assassins Creed, and maybe Aliens
cleft5  +   796d ago
So this dude just killed his career at any gaming company, congratz on that.
MacDonagh  +   796d ago
Okay. This fella may have an axe to grind but if what he says is true and he and his team helped to fix the UI for Darksiders 2 but were laid off and their names not put into the credits; then they clearly have a right to be pissed off.
Shoasura  +   796d ago
Sounds and looks like a whiny little f*****.

If I got fired I wouldn't expect to be in the credits.
chasegarcia  +   796d ago
give credit where credit is due.
if he did work that is on the final product. even when fired or below the 90 days policy.

not trying to defend him. it seems like he was let go for bad performance.
#21.1 (Edited 796d ago ) | Agree(2) | Disagree(1) | Report | Reply
kevinsheeks  +   795d ago
This post takes the cake >.> so if you do work and get fired you don't want credit?

What if you put in the most work? your willing to sit there and watch your hard work be used and not even be mentioned?

Even if you get fired if their is even a fraction of your work in the final presentation you deserve some recognition
#21.2 (Edited 795d ago ) | Agree(1) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
Robotronfiend  +   795d ago
I don't get credited as an author for every research study I run. Move on.

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