"Sony has posted a loss again for Q1 2013, totaling to $312 million. Their game division performed poorly too as you can see below, and showed decline in hardware and software."
Atleast the total loss is less than the last fiscal quarter
units (3) | 16m ago XD Yeah, these numbers were way better than the last fiscal quarter.
Yes, also I seem to remember a certain $380m acquisition lately...
Edit...or does this count as 2nd quarter?
@portal_2 Im no guru at economics, but arent a companys assets included when calculating these things?
Even Kaz Hirai can't turn around the company's fortunes in just a single quarter! I'm more worried about the fact that they expect sales to stay flat for consoles, which to me suggests no price cut and no slim PS3. unless they're just being conservative.
@ten tons, yep. far too many peeps only looking at the headline. http://www.engadget.com/201... Sony's first-quarter figures for 2012 show that despite the company's optimism three months ago, it's made a net loss of $312 million. It pulled in a whopping $19.2 billion in sales for the three months ending June 30th, partly credited to bringing Sony Mobile fully into the family. However, the cost of restructuring the Mobile Products and Communications Division (of which Sony Mobile is a part) came to $143 million, wiping out the additional gains to record a loss of $356 million. Gaming-wise, the PlayStation maker suffered a $45 million loss as falling sales of the PSP and PS3 were only partially offset by the sales of the PS Vita. There was better news in its imaging division, while sales of compact cameras fell, DSLRs and "Professional" products took up the slack, resulting in a profit of $160 million. In a trend we've seen across the Home Entertainment industry, sales of LCD televisions continued to fall, forcing the company to eat a loss of $126 million. Movie and TV recorded a loss of $62 million, although that's primarily due to a dip in advertising sales in India and the cost of marketing (but not producing) The Amazing Spider-Man, the profits of which won't be recognized until September. Finally, while it spent big to purchase EMI this quarter, big-ticket albums like Usher's Looking 4 Myself and One Direction's Up All Night helped the division make a profit of $92 million. While Sony's treading water to execute Kaz Hirai's "One" Strategy, it's still got $8.4 billion stashed under the mattress, and in the face of lower sales, is hoping that reduced costs will help it make $1.6 billion in profit by the end of March 2013.
"We don’t know how much PS3′s they shipped this quarter as they seem to be combining both PS3 and PS2 now" Doesnt smell good.
@gaffyh I think they expect them to stay flat, rather than falling as we will get the PS3 'Super Slim' to engage new buyers.
I'd love to know what the disagrees are for, and yet the guy who says there will be no super slims has less disagrees when we've all seen the certification pictures... Yet more cowards who don't post their point of view...
Within 2 years Sony will have taken a huge bite out of Apple's market share. They're making all the right moves, and they've got the resources to take on the likes of Apple and of course Microsoft. I think that only good times are ahead for Sony.
I'm surprised with new hardware, like PS Vita Sony shipped fewer handhelds combined by almost 30% than yoy quarter. Heck the entire division under-performed. MS had similar result, but they got years of earnings to prop them up (and also other very profitable divisions). Sony is also hiding the PS3 sales number by combining it with PS2. I would have love to see the numbers, as MS too had major decrease in Xbox 360 sales. It's time for new hardware! I have been waiting for some time now! Kinect was a good start though.
Sony needs to make PS4 price right. If they make PS4 same way as PS3(making costs more than you sell), then you get loss. Lets hope PS4 makes some profit. If Sony PS4 is loss, then we wont see any more exclusives games from Sony. No Uncharted, No LittleBigPlanet, or new IPs.
Consoles generally always sell for a loss at launch. Money is made back through games.
The only reason ps3 was so expensive is because of blu ray $200 in 06 , now its 2012 and its now under $12 so ps4 will not be as expensive
I wouldn't expect sony to get in too far over their head when it comes to next-gen hardware. They might take the nintendo route and try to make profit right off bat instead of going into debt just to put out a cutting edge console. Or they could just go under and get it over with. I bet we wont see a ps4 until 2014. They will try to hang onto the ps3 for as long as they can, before going into debt again. If they choose that route that is. Being an investor in sony right now must be grim.
Brosy, Sony has shown that their business model is long term. I'm sure that's what they'll do for the PS4. Even if the PS4 comes out within the next couple of year, people will be buying PS3's well into the next gen just like they did with PS2's.
It's ugly all around for hardware sales this year. PS2 & PS3 sales combined I think were down 14% in this quarter, 360 sales are down 43% for the first six months of the year, Wii sales were down something like 55% last quarter. The whole industry seems to be taking quite a hit. Let's hope there's some truth to those $150 PS3 super slim rumors. That would certainly give the industry a much needed boost and ramp up some spending in the second half of the calendar year.
I think the thing is... It really is time for new consoles. And here is the reason why - I was able to go out the other day and buy myself a cheap XBOX 360 for only £80 the other day. They sell for £150 usually. The one I got is 2nd hand fair enough but £80 for a console is a steal, now I can go back and get all the games I missed out on not having one for cheap as well. What I am trying to say is that its got to a point now where they have sold so many now that its easy to find someone selling one 2nd hand for cheap and so a lot of gamers who want the console and its games for the collections (like me) or casuals who just want one for as cheap as possible are just picking them up used now. And I dont support the whole "USED MARKET IS KILLING THE INDUSTRY!" thing, but this late into the current generation it probably is not helping... So yeah to cut it short - I think new hardware is needed because console sales for this generation are not going to really increase significantly any more due to so many very cheap 2nd hand consoles available. I mean... £80 for an XBOX 360? Thats like, little more than the price of two brand new chart games... That is quite a steal and speaks volumes for the value of current gen consoles.
Are there any companies not posting loses these days
SONY, I am disappoint http://i.imgur.com/ITcy9.jp... ^_^
The only direction now is up, Sony needs to be picky with their exclusives, it isn't worth supporting a game that is only going to sell 500k or anything below a million. Also they should fire their marketing team. PlayStation mobile is going to help Sony a lot
eh? NO! Sony (like any company) can go bankrupt eventually and nobody wants to touch them with a ten foot pole. Have you seen Nokia lately?
I'm a optimistic type of guy. I believe all hard work pays off in the end, do you think the PlayStation brand has been lazy in providing games to its fanbase ? I understand the nature of man and its love for watching things burn, but it ain't over till the fat lady sings. In a ironic way I think this is a good thing cause it gives Sony the perfect excuse not to come out with PS4, they going to get even more loss if Sony does that, I'm guessing when the PS3 hits ten years then PS4.
Too big to fail! - US government Says differently lol too bad Sony doesn't have a monopoly to fall back on like MS or a huge amount of sheeps to their brand like Apple does. But what can they do when they do so much business in the states and the dollar isn't worth much compared to their yen causing even more losses.
You just described Sony's past history in many regards. Not so much a monopoly on electronics anymore although many nations are still monopolized by Sony electronics and have a sheepish mistrust for other brands and sheepish loyalty as shown on this site and all over the developed and undeveloped world. I'm not sure what you mean by "to big to fail usa" Are saying the reason MSFT is doing well vs Sony is because MSFT is really doing poorly but my government is bailing MSFT out and into success? *waits for -nathanexplosion- to call me out for calling out nonsense*
@sashimi: US Government isn't a company! That said, I have no clue what you are trying to say. Sony did have a monopoly at one point with the Playstation 1 and 2! They lost that thanks to first MS, then Nintendo did them in. @Xperia_ion: "I believe all hard work pays off in the end, do you think the PlayStation brand has been lazy in providing games to its fanbase ?" I disagree, if you work hard in the wrong direction. In business, time and time again has shown that execution is worth far more than ideas and that is where I think Sony isn't doing too well. Just look at their product history in recent times: * PS Vita overpriced with lack of software * PSP Go badly supported * PS Move non-existant support * 3D push didn't do much (heck, Sony's own TVs had major 3D crosstalk problems and was among the worst) One thing they kind of got right ironically, was the PS3 simply because compared to the competition i.e. Xbox 360, it is very very competitively priced from a value stand point. In that respect, Xbox 360 is way expensive! "it ain't over till the fat lady sings." True, but it could swing either way!
"too bad Sony doesn't have a monopoly to fall back on like MS or a huge amount of sheeps to their brand like Apple does" They do have a lot of sheep, do you even read the comment sections in N4G ?
SuperLupe, mind telling how the comments of N4G show that Sony has a lot of sheep?
its called a recession google it
Microsoft just posted a hefty profit
"Microsoft reports first quarterly loss EVER in 26-year history as a public company. That $6.2billion hit meant that Microsoft lost nearly $500million in the second quarter of 2012, its first quarterly loss as a publicly traded firm" http://www.dailymail.co.uk/... They are worth 50+ Billion and the only lost 500M that is nothing.. They seem to be doing much better than sony. And now that this is happening.. http://www.youtube.com/watc... X720 will be a true cross platform console since they own windows and are making it easy for devs to make 360/pc & most likely 720/pc games all on dx11 hardware next gen. Sony will take a step back if they don't expand to the 600 Million windows pc's with gaikai(though planetside 2 looks amazing). http://www.engadget.com/201... MS is a strategic beast! But sony make better games.
Sony has been in financial restructure since the mid 1990's more than 4 times. This goes beyond recession. This current recession just made matters worse for Sony, however Sony has been in financial trouble since the 1990's overall. Sony needs to abandon some of its less profitable divisions such as HDTV's and Multi-Media devices and Cameras. Sony expanded when times were great for them (1970's and 1980's) However when tougher times hit and more competition cam about in the 1990's-2000's, Sony kept the same business model....even when analysts, investors and the market told them they need to change. They did not and look what has and is happening now to them? Sony will continue to slide until they do some DRASTIC changes. If not. They won't be around in the next10 years or less.
Hmmmm than why companies like MS and Apple are having good profits?
did i mention microsoft? i didnt mention apple.. i didnt mention alot of corps thats making a profit in this recssion. Haha ironically you 2 @straight and fel should actually google it. Theres no hopee for this site.
I think they were just pointing out that Sony's main problem has nothing to do with the recession. Everyone is in a recession, but other companies haven't made the mistakes Sony have. At least they are still projecting a profit for the year. Unless sales continue to decline. They really need a $150 PS3. Sony can't afford another yearly loss. It would probably mean a major restructuring. Far more than the changes made so far. Or it could be the beginning of the end for the company. Another yearly loss will mean another stock downgrade. If that doesn't happen before the end of the year. And that might lead to the stock being delisted. Which leads to people taking their money out of the company. And that might be the end of Sony.
Yea and I was pointing out recession hits some harder than it hit others...
they have huge loss, but wanna bet they are paying directors and others way to much? i am sure they are getting like 50k $ a month, but if they are doing such a bad job and sony has a loss why they get payed so much?
Sony have recently changed director because the previous ones are what got the company in such a state. You do not fall back from millions in losses overnight. Director salary doesn't even scratch the surface. Add to that the new director is the only one who's seen the 'losses' and debt shrink so far.
I don't think Japanese executives are as greedy as American executives. And 50k a month would actually be cheap for a major companies CEO, but might be closer to what many Japanese CEOs make.. A lot of these clowns in the US make 10-20 million a year. http://www.huffingtonpost.c... http://thinkprogress.org/po...
You have to remember that Sony are on a 'road to recovery' from huge losses and debts. Despite this being a loss, it's better than the same time last year, which is actually a good thing. It's going to take more time before Sony even get back into a safe area when it comes to money. Add to this, Sony have been around for years providing way more than Gaming consoles and most things they provided due to modern era have become obsolete, which automatically creates loss for a company providing those things. Then there's the fact that every single company out there(maybe excluding some banks and world money companies etc) come to an end at some point, Sony however are not there yet. Give them a chance :)
Give them a chance??? How long does a person need to wait... 20+ years? For YEARS I've been waiting... Years... This company is garbage.
You have been waiting over 20 years for a company to fall apart? well I can understand your frustration. Specially if you are a share holder! Come on guys get serious here! the big reason for Sony's loss is obvious! the ever more present competition, Sony is not used to it yet! they are adapting, slowly but surely! their Mobile division once held the majority of the shares and along came Apple! when there are more competition there is always declines! look at Apple, losing its market share to Android recently. The best though Sony can do is to either shot down the mobile division or bend even lower for Google. Cause it seems like the mobile division has been struggling for ever!
@kane_1371 Sonys biggest problem is there image and Price. I love sony products I have 2 Sony TV's Surround sound system and 2 PS3's but they have lost there image of being a WOW company with there products. TV was there biggest market for a long time but Samsung and LG have taken this market off of them. Samsung TV's look just as nice and quality is just as good but the difference between the two is the price. And a lot of people now go for price over name. But you are also right Sony have lost the following markets over the last 10 years. MP3 Player to apple, Mobile Market to Apple, Home Console Market to Nintendo and Microsoft, TV Market to Samsung/LG Even the High end PC market sony cant compete in any more. I think in a way sony did what Microsoft did a few years ago and thought we are to and no one can touch us and then at once they were hit where it hurts but looking at sony as a company they are trying to rebuild this but for them to get back onto the Market in TV's they need to make Low, Middle and high end TV's with a good price point to take on Samsung and LG, In the console department they need to make cheaper consoles and get read of the dead ips or the ones that don't sell that many. People slag off MS for only giving us a few exclusive games a year but look at the difference is sales over the PS3 exclusives and you can say it is a good business model and at the start of next gen keep them going and add a few more in to the mix as they will have a chance to get a name for its self like Gears has or UC on the PS3. I do think Sony will get there again but I think it will take another 5 to 10 years.
Sony tv's are being outsold because they sell at a higher premium but have inferior performance. Sony had a sheeple marketing style. -if they want one they will work harder or work two jobs- The arrogance from having a monopoly so long has hurt them.
@MCStorm Sony's problem on TVs isn't price. A comparable Samsung model is often the more expensive one now. Sony just isn't the "it" brand anymore. That's Samsung in TVs now. But you are right about the competition thing. Competition has beat then in all of the major categories. They were hit with a perfect storm of problems. Apple came out with the iPhone. Samsung took over TVs. MS released the 360 and more than that the Wii outsold them both. Apple took over music and companies can no longer cheat people on the price. Companies are competing well against them on everything they make. Then add the bad decisions like the Cell and Blu-ray. The Cell just needed time for people to get used to it, the Blu-ray cost on the PS3 was much harder to overcome. Consoles are usually in the black per console with the first 18 months, the PS3 was still in the red per console over three years later. It also made gaming a huge drain for a few years instead of the steady income it had been. I think right now they are struggling to figure out how to increase sales without cutting profits. They know they can't afford another yearly loss. Cut the price of the Vita and cut profits. But sales are bad which cuts profits and support. New PS3 at $150. But can it be sold at enough profit to make up for the Vita shortfall. Can they stop rehashing the same movies and make something that will be a major hit besides Men in Black. If they can't get it turned around Sony may become a Gaming company only. Or their creditors could make them sell off everything to get their money.
It really is amazing how the mighty fallen. Sony used to be top dog in almost everything. My old Sony TV XBR Wega used to crush the competition. Sony electronics used to be an easy choice for anybody. And now their products fall somewhere in the middle to the bottom. Their tv's fall behind others like Panasonic and Samsung. Their laptops, cell phones, tablets, mp3 players, etc... are all near the bottom of the list. And of course, their gaming division. The ps3 is still in last place, Move was a flop, and VITA is having troubles. Sure the recession has hurt them like everybody else, but that doesn't explain why their products are not as good as the competition. Plain and simple, the mighty Sony has fallen hard!
Their products are still getting good ratings! it is not the quality that has fallen! the people's quality expectations has fallen. They can't afford the more expensive products, not even sumsung or Panasonic's or whatever other company's more expensive products sell very good. People can't simply dish out, and it hits everybody, specially SONY
Ratings mean nothing when it comes to money
Sony has yet to figure out how to make quality products at affordable prices, that is their problem within the competition. Sony has always made quality products, they are just so expensive. For the affluent and elitists not the general masses
Panasonic is having 5x bigger loses than sony. Its not about quality anymore, its price. Samsung is one of very few from east that is doing good thx to lower prices(more products in low-mid range)and successful copy cat of others. U dont pull company out of deep sh*t overnight.
You don't know Samsung if you think they make better products than Sony...particularly their s***ty tvs. Google Samsung/dead pixel class action lawsuit. Samsung is the worst electronic manufacturer in the world and the customer service is terrible (google that too). I'm speaking from experience. I tell them that their s***ty Tv I bought 13 months ago has a huge line down the left side of the tv. They tell me they've never heard of that problem. I google it, and they're currently being sued for it...lol. They told me it would cost $100 just to have a tech look at it, or I could go f*** myself. Now, my two Sony Bravias work just fine. The one I bought 5 years ago finally had a bulb go out and it costs $30 to replace it. The LCD I bought 3 years ago has never failed.... People need to stop spreading the myth that Sony makes bad products and that they're overpriced. They make some of the best products and they're fairly competitive with pricing. Trust me....I don't know about Panasonic but DO NOT BUY A SAMSUNG TV unless you like pissing away 2k.
The world knows Samsung is making the better product for less sometimes. It's the reason the brand is taking over in Asia, Europe and has monopolized the Americas. Samsung is out innovating most competition or taking bigger risks merging tech from other industries first.(primitive Kinect tech in TV etc) They come out with the best looking TV's setting the example. Picture quality starts at Solid and end at excellent throughout series or price points. I just hope the worldwide VGcharts being used to brainwash away sales news amd facts stops now. I post worldwide 2011 sales numbers from the companies themselves and get VGcharts thrown in my face as a debunk counter to my info despite nothing offered by Sony that would change momentum. A week from now Sony fans will be saying Sony is doing great and PS3 is selling the most worldwide no matter what.
You have to consider that tech is evolving too fast. Only 10 years ago we're almost all stuck with CRT. Now we have 240Hz 3D 1080p LED displays largerly available. And this didn't came in one jump but in a gradual evolution... Resolution evolved from SD to ED, HD and finally Full HD, not to mention we already have better resolutions in R&D. CRT were made HD, than DLP, LCD and LcoS appeared, after that Plasma and more recently LED, soon to become spread AMOLED. Also we moved away from the basic watching TV to many features like interativity, internet, 3D and now even kinect like controls. And not only tech's evolving much faster, it's getting cheaper faster too, which in such a bad economy, blury the lines between high end and low end even further. I'm no market researcher but I assume that's what most changed the market in favor of cheaper consumer elctronics that are no longer seen as highly durable goods. The way we perceive quality had changed. Once quality was more about reliability, but right now the features available are much more defining in what is high end or low end. Don't matter if your TV, phone or PC can last 10 years if you'll probably be willing to buy a new one in 2 or 3 years. Same way, why pay the premium for a realiable high tech TV if you can get the same features on cheaper brand waiting 6 months or 1 year. Of course not everyone sees the same, but I believe that this change of perception is what demands Sony to start persuing the low end market (not only on TVs, but on many of their electronics). This also may effect the gaming market in the future, the whole concept of consoles as non-changing hardware may be due, this generation we already had seen HD-DVD and motion controllers added down the road, but I guess this won't affect us much before the generation after next (PS5).
@bishop So in essance we people are more after instant gratification than ever. We don't care about how long this TV is going to last on me since we are bound to buy a new one in a year or two. This instant gratification is BS to me. Nothing but kids with their toys. This is what I've been blaming MS of with x360 for years. The x360 was not a long term plan only a quick cash grab. Don't tell me that deep down most of us people are like this or I'll lose faith in all mankind. Do we all have ADHD? Is that it?
I have plenty of sony products, from tv to tablet and ps vita I am happy with my purchases. True the tv and tablet may not be the best in the world, but is plenty good. The vita and ps3 has been gaming heaven for me. Sony is a little dumb when it comes tosupport their products, but my experince is very good. Not perfect, not even the best around, still for my preference sony tvs are my choice. Thetablet is plenty sweet, the ps brand is just great
no doom and gloom talk for the Sony corp then lol. people are funny and if you only understood.
Eh. There recent announcements tell me they will turn things around.
and over saturation of the same shit, and shit that's not even in demand(MotorStorm). If your going to "copy" COD, do it right, But you don't copy from your fellow developers we don't need a "drake" in every fcking Sony game. I'm really pissed about motorstorm the series suck really bad, because it's an lackluster off-road racer. Decent modern racing games are lacking this gen, Evolution should change motorstorm into a modern car racer, with just your basic CARS, (Tuner Exotic Muscle, no fcking Trucks). I want, to customize my car and race it everywhere the city included, just not only the city. Oh yeah no generic white males in my racing games please. I want racing to be about racing, not about how John Doe and his main bitch gets from Point A to Point B.
You kidding? Motorstorm is the best offroad racer ever IMO
Dirt 3 begs to differ.
I love motorstorm, I have all 3 PS3 games. dirt 3 doesnt come close.
So you say that Sony has a lack of creativity and you mention MotorStorm? Wow what a fail.
Care to name a game console that contains more variety, quality, originality, and innovation than the Playstation system? Last I checked, Xbox is currently relying on 3 IPs, 1 of which has had 8 games over the course of 11 years; the Nintendo is still playing off the same old Italian plumber going on 30 years now. If you're going to criticize one side, how about you bring up a better alternative with real-world examples to build your argument. You're entire comment was a miserable failure to anyone with a 9th grade education or higher.
Dialga The problem is Sony's way isn't working. You can put out a ton of exclusive IP and bring in a new disc but it has to be a deciding factor. The exclusives aren't enough to overcome price and the disc system cause the price that kept systems from selling. Nintendo and MS are making millions with the same stuff over and over. Most people tend to eat the same things over and over because it's what they like. Nintendo and Microsoft is willing to sell them those things. Most people say they want something different, but when it comes they fall back on what they've always known. New IP is great. But it must introduce something new. Not just a new skin on an old idea. Heavy Rain was something new. It was a poorly executed QTE about mundane stuff like brushing your teeth. New IP has to have new mechanics or physics. And stop trying to sell a product for one group to the wrong group. LBP was casual. But they were trying to sell to a group that considered itself, and brags that it is, hardcore.
Well if it carries on we will probably see Sony for much longer they need to come up with something quick and fast.
I don't know why anyone is surprised by this. The American market is the most important market for gaming. Sony lost that the moment the 360 was launched. Nintendo has sold more than both, but, out of the main two "HD consoles," ie., the real heavy hitters, Sony lost big time. Market share and mindshare mean something in reality. Their market share has been sucked up by Microsoft: a company they dismmissed and didn't take seriously, and now they are paying the cost. VITA is/was DOA-no, it's not going to make a comback-and market saturation has taken it's toll on the "Big 3." PS4 won't change this either so don't get your hopes up. I see Sony going 3rd party like SEGA did back in the day. That or teaming up with Nintendo to survive. Either way, MS has more than proven themselves and (imo) the better console has "won." A bunch of announced exclussives-most of which are mediocre, especially compared to other 3rd party games-many of which havne't been released (FFXIII VS) and wouldn't make a difference anyway.
I think it would be best for them financially to do this also.... Or the company will sink even further. Make those awesome games... Sell them on any platform... Big bucks$$!
If Sony continues to be dragged down by products that don't sell they might have to go that route. If they don't make a profit for this fiscal year they will be downgraded and maybe delisted. They would most likely have to file for bankruptcy and it may no longer be their decision how they handle their divisions. Third party might be their best bet. But they are apparently far into the process of a new console. Sony phones are 10% of the market and the profit is small on them. Not much of an option. And the power on Tablets is increasing each year and they will become the better option. AMD will launch a tablet chip soon with a desktop level GPU. A tablet with a kickstand and a controller beats a phone every time. Phones are fine for what the market is right now. But as more hardcore gamers use them as their mobile device the quality will have to rise and a controller will be needed. And tablets can have an advantage there. Sony just may have been too slow to adapt and their time might be over. But it seems that no one at Sony was thinking that way. They have been arrogant in the past and it may cost them everything. They forecast higher profits for the coming year and so far they have dropped those predictions over 30% after the first quarter. One thing is guaranteed, if that trend continues the rest of the year, they may not be around to go third party.