This sounds like my kind of game, This is what more dev's need to do, give us rich stories which mean something and have a impact. I'd take that over go kill some guy trying to blow up the America anyday
Loved Heavy Rain. I don't understand some people whee they sit there and think that every game has to be fun to be good. It's all about the experience and if fun is something they are looking for they probably shouldn't have played that game.
These are my kind of games, leaving you with a message and a meaning to wrap things together. Can't wait for this, and Sony please do try and show Last Gaurdian this year.
There's a balance. If the game isn't fun then why would anyone play it? It's nice to have a deeper meaning, but you can't disregard fun for it. That's something I don't think David Cage understands. He's focused on emotion, rather than an enjoyable game experience or something that makes sense. I like games that try to do something deeper, but I think Heavy Rain failed on that. It had the potential, but the story was rife with plot holes that were rather blatant. And just because a game is focusing on "meaning" that doesn't give it free reign to take the fun out. That's what I feel is missing from a number of games nowadays. They're either focusing on graphics, gore, or just making it cinematic. For how much I don't like the Uncharted series, at least Naughty Dog does a good enough job to make it fun to play (except for the melee combat).
And now I'm prepared to be flamed for daring to say something negative about Heavy Rain.
If a game emotionally engages you, I don't think the fun factor really matters anymore. That's where I think Cage is coming from; he wants to get the player emotionally invested in the story and characters thus making you want to play and learn more about them.
I also agree with you that Heavy Rain had many plot holes. But overall, I think it's a one of a kind experience in video games. That (to me) is the future of video games.
While I consider Heavy Rain one of the best games this generation, and Indigo Prophecy one of the best last generation, I feel like David Cage forgets that a game can be both meaningful AND fun.
I'm just not a fan of quicktime events and push this button at a certain time or you fail. That's really all heavyrain was other than the detective portion which LA Noire rips it a new one on. He just makes interactive movies and that will always be a niche audience like motion controls are.
When you get right down to it pretty much every game is "push this button at a certain time or you fail".
And in heavy rain the QTE are primarily dialog choices, it's really no different than the Mass Effect dialog choices other than they actually have a real impact on the story.
Agreed. While it doesn't have to be fast paced fun or dumb, mindless fun, it has to be enjoyable on some level. If I want a good story and nothing else, I'll read a book.
Personally i think its an interesting idea. We already have books which are deep and meaningful, and some films. And as gaming matures we will see more of this start to happen where stores become more emotionally involving.
The idea that a game can not only bring you into an emotionally involving setting, but actually force you do decide how it unravels, could bring something more involving than any film or book if it were done with a good script and acting.
Ive read books and seen films that were not fun, but still think theyre brilliant.
Dont start putting limitations on what developers envision for their games, otherwise we just end up stuck in more of a rut of yearly COD releases and clones.
Whilst I dont mind that too much, its nice to get something different every now and then to push the boundaries.
Being that I only have one more post, I will try and cover this as best as I can.
It's because what he wants to create can be done better in other mediums.
A videogame is just that, a game. Does that mean it can't have a deep, satisfying story that makes you think? Hell no. I prefer when games do this. However, this is normally done by crafting the story around engaging gameplay mechanics. When the story itself gets in the way of fun - something that a game is supposed to be - or promotes the lack of legitimate gameplay mechanics, then I argue it's more detrimental than it is positive. It's surely not a proper videogame.
Saying this shouldn't be isn't me restricting developers. It's me being against something that, if more people jumped on board with, would be taking away from what makes this medium different than the others.
I think its a grey area when you get games like these. Im not sure id call a game like this a video game in the traditional sense. Its somewhere in between games and film.
It might do well or it might completely fail. Its a risk but one that makes it more exciting.
It might not strictly be a video game like others. But its interesting none the less.
Might rent heavy Rain so Ive got a better idea about it all. its interesting seeing such a different approach to what kind of experience you get on a console
When was the last time you were able to change the outcome of a film based on your actions and engagement with its mechanics?
Cage enjoys the interactivity that comes with video games, but wants to put across the mature and adult sensibilities of something you would see in an action, adventure, thriller or drama film plot. I see nothing wrong with someone attempting this in order to move forward and expand the medium.
I'll let the film 'Seven Pounds' serve as an example. It's a depressing, emotionally intense drama film, but it's enjoyable to watch. That is what Cage is trying to evoke in gamers and the industry. There's nothing wrong with substituting traditional giddy fun in games with other emotions, such as sadness, tension, love, loss etc. The only people complaining are the ones who don't like to accept that some people want to experience something fresh and more mature.
Yeah, I'll pass. I play games to be entertained, not to deal with complex life issues-that's what reality is for. Heavy Rain was cool, but, it's not much of a game in the traditional sense.
Im ok with these issues being incorporated into video games but at the same time saying that your game will have a focus on "meaning, not fun" doesnt make me jump for joy....
So you only watch "fun" films too? Read my comment above. There are some beautiful and tragic stories to be told in film that deal with deep emotional issues involving the human condition. There's not much different with the story that this game is trying to tell, and there's nothing wrong with trying to tell this in an interactive form such as a game. That's kinda what David Cage is trying to achieve.
By saying Heavy Rain wasn't much of a game in the "traditional sense", is like saying Fahrenheit (Indigo Prophecy) wasn't a game either, even though it was on PS2/Xbox/PC and is a critically acclaimed GAME. No one really doubted its place as a game.
Similarly, Heavy Rain is an adventure game, so "traditional" has nothing to do with it. It has puzzles, goals and most importantly, a reason to play. Games are past-times, they are meant to challenge, but as production value becomes more important, so has does investment in the narrative experience and characters. If that's not what you appreciate, then fair enough.
It's a day one just improve the controls after e3 many media outlets were not pleased by controls of the ghost so just improve that and make it more fluid experice
Like I said its already a day one purchase. I think after this game Sony will buy out QD. I think David cage is pleased to work with Sony sice they allowing him to do his own thing like they allow all their studios
Yeh I am looking at you MS and what you done to rare
The heads of the company overworked their employees for years. All of the longtime developers eventually left and joined up or started other companies.
It's just a shell of what it used to be anyway. Let them stick with Kinect and Microsoft internal. I am not expecting another proper Rare game from the group that is 'Rare' nowadays anyway.
I was very disappointed with Heavy Rain so I'm off the Cage train. Omikron and Fahrenheit were okay but I'm just not impressed with this guy's output anymore.
Er yeah no hey. I like my games fun and meaningful. Fun and meaningless yes, boring and meaningful no!
Let's save some things for Hollywood and Sundance
David Cage says his focus in development of his upcoming PS3 exclusive is "creating an emotional journey," adding: "I'm not interest in giving [players] 'fun'."
Surely this emotional journey is fun for the player, why else would they play the game? Since when is fun based on game mechanics alone and not story? If that were the case nobody would enjoy films.
I think it's weird how the fact that he's stated that "fun" isn't his objective is apparently turning people off to this game.
I enjoy a deep, engaging story more than pretty much anything else. If the story's good, and I find myself wrapped up in the story and emotionally invested in the characters, I have more "fun" with that than games designed to be "fun."
@ [...] Hicken - I think there is a fair line, between it all. I mean, would you be okay with just walking through levels? Sure, the story is amazing, the characters are cool.. but, y'know. There needs to be a 'fun factor' there, as well. Some fun gameplay. I don't wanna just walk around, like in Home, all day. Fun needs to be there. I agree with the whole enjoying a game more with a story, though.
I dont think they focused on fun factor either with "Heavy Rain" yet it was one of my top 5 games of last gen. Just the experience and the immersion one experienced playing this game made it fun for me. So although it may not be a focus of the game it is a by product of something so well done. Just waiting to see what happened next and the progression of the game was fun for me. I get tired quickly of games that are so basic jump, bump and fly bs over and over again that this was a breath of fresh air and welcomed.
It's funny how the same people who don't like Heavy Rain come to every article for Beyond two souls, we don't care if you didn't like Heavy rain the games wasn't meant for you, move on chumps.
every game doesnt needs to be mindless fun to be enjoyed i hope thats something gamers grow out of soon or our pool of ideas will become small like the comics idustry. for example shindlers list wasnt fun to watch at all but its still one of the greatest movies of all time.
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These are my kind of games, leaving you with a message and a meaning to wrap things together. Can't wait for this, and Sony please do try and show Last Gaurdian this year.
And now I'm prepared to be flamed for daring to say something negative about Heavy Rain.
I also agree with you that Heavy Rain had many plot holes. But overall, I think it's a one of a kind experience in video games. That (to me) is the future of video games.
And in heavy rain the QTE are primarily dialog choices, it's really no different than the Mass Effect dialog choices other than they actually have a real impact on the story.
Personally i think its an interesting idea. We already have books which are deep and meaningful, and some films. And as gaming matures we will see more of this start to happen where stores become more emotionally involving.
The idea that a game can not only bring you into an emotionally involving setting, but actually force you do decide how it unravels, could bring something more involving than any film or book if it were done with a good script and acting.
Ive read books and seen films that were not fun, but still think theyre brilliant.
Dont start putting limitations on what developers envision for their games, otherwise we just end up stuck in more of a rut of yearly COD releases and clones.
Whilst I dont mind that too much, its nice to get something different every now and then to push the boundaries.
It's because what he wants to create can be done better in other mediums.
A videogame is just that, a game. Does that mean it can't have a deep, satisfying story that makes you think? Hell no. I prefer when games do this. However, this is normally done by crafting the story around engaging gameplay mechanics. When the story itself gets in the way of fun - something that a game is supposed to be - or promotes the lack of legitimate gameplay mechanics, then I argue it's more detrimental than it is positive. It's surely not a proper videogame.
Saying this shouldn't be isn't me restricting developers. It's me being against something that, if more people jumped on board with, would be taking away from what makes this medium different than the others.
I think its a grey area when you get games like these. Im not sure id call a game like this a video game in the traditional sense. Its somewhere in between games and film.
It might do well or it might completely fail. Its a risk but one that makes it more exciting.
It might not strictly be a video game like others. But its interesting none the less.
Might rent heavy Rain so Ive got a better idea about it all. its interesting seeing such a different approach to what kind of experience you get on a console
Cage enjoys the interactivity that comes with video games, but wants to put across the mature and adult sensibilities of something you would see in an action, adventure, thriller or drama film plot. I see nothing wrong with someone attempting this in order to move forward and expand the medium.
I'll let the film 'Seven Pounds' serve as an example. It's a depressing, emotionally intense drama film, but it's enjoyable to watch. That is what Cage is trying to evoke in gamers and the industry. There's nothing wrong with substituting traditional giddy fun in games with other emotions, such as sadness, tension, love, loss etc. The only people complaining are the ones who don't like to accept that some people want to experience something fresh and more mature.
By saying Heavy Rain wasn't much of a game in the "traditional sense", is like saying Fahrenheit (Indigo Prophecy) wasn't a game either, even though it was on PS2/Xbox/PC and is a critically acclaimed GAME. No one really doubted its place as a game.
Similarly, Heavy Rain is an adventure game, so "traditional" has nothing to do with it. It has puzzles, goals and most importantly, a reason to play. Games are past-times, they are meant to challenge, but as production value becomes more important, so has does investment in the narrative experience and characters. If that's not what you appreciate, then fair enough.
Like I said its already a day one purchase. I think after this game Sony will buy out QD. I think David cage is pleased to work with Sony sice they allowing him to do his own thing like they allow all their studios
Yeh I am looking at you MS and what you done to rare
The heads of the company overworked their employees for years. All of the longtime developers eventually left and joined up or started other companies.
It's just a shell of what it used to be anyway. Let them stick with Kinect and Microsoft internal. I am not expecting another proper Rare game from the group that is 'Rare' nowadays anyway.
I'd probably buy it for $15 but I'll probably rent it before it hits that price.
Let's save some things for Hollywood and Sundance
Surely this emotional journey is fun for the player, why else would they play the game? Since when is fun based on game mechanics alone and not story? If that were the case nobody would enjoy films.
I enjoy a deep, engaging story more than pretty much anything else. If the story's good, and I find myself wrapped up in the story and emotionally invested in the characters, I have more "fun" with that than games designed to be "fun."
I think there is a fair line, between it all.
I mean, would you be okay with just walking through levels?
Sure, the story is amazing, the characters are cool.. but, y'know.
There needs to be a 'fun factor' there, as well. Some fun gameplay.
I don't wanna just walk around, like in Home, all day. Fun needs to be there.
I agree with the whole enjoying a game more with a story, though.
for example shindlers list wasnt fun to watch at all but its still one of the greatest movies of all time.