Kotaku - The head of Valve says his company is working to develop for Linux, calling Microsoft's Windows 8 a "catastrophe" that will lead product manufacturers to abandon the platform.
Agreed. I really hope the final Windows 8 release is much better than that preview we got.
he will still support windows because he would be insane not to. Too much of a risk at profit loss to simply turn your back to it.
Windows yes, but will he support Windows 8? He could hold off on it and the Steam loyal would probably do the same. I don't see why he has to support Windows 8 at launch when most people wont have it yet.
Besides, I don't want linux to go mainstream because that means more viruses and stuff.
Viruses? You don't really know much about Linux, do you. Do you believe that people will start writing viruses for it and ruin your experience? See comment one. Going back to the core construction of linux and how it processes it is possible but wholly more difficult. And would you prefer to keep paying money for an OS, or would you rather have a gaming OS that upgrades itself every 6 months and is free. Yeah, free.
@RememberThe357 People buy new computers all the time. I'm not sure on the exact numbers of PC sales per month, but I'd imagine it's a very high number that's significantly greater than the sales of consoles. Pretty soon, all new computers will come with copies of Windows 8 pre-installed (unless they already do?) which will expand the user base by crazy huge amounts. That's not to say everybody who buys a new PC will be using Steam of course, but I doubt Gabe will simply ignore the OS either.
Guys, Its KOTAKU again. BAN them forever!
Gabe Newell knows Windows is their lifeblood, and that Windows 8 with it's own app marketplace might just displace Steam. That is why Valve is so upset and therefore is supporting Linux. There is zero possibility that Windows 8 will, simply because it is the de-facto standard. Every new computer will come with it. Apart from that, Windows 8 is a freaken great product. I'm typing on Windows 8 right now and my old trusty Thinkpad is the fastest it has ever been! I'm still discovering a lot of the features, but the metro start page makes searching a snap. Faster than Win Vista or Win 7. @morganfell: You do know that Mac OSX is built on BSD that is now facing security issues due to it's popularity. Linux is very similar to BSD Unix and I have no doubt it will face the same issues if it ever reaches the same level of popularity. As a server OS it too faces security issues all the time. I have to constantly patch our CentOS and Ubuntu servers.
He wants to support Linux because he can make money there as well, I'm OK with this, can't wait to play my Steam Games on Ubuntu :D
@ morganfell: free =/= good. linux is garbage for the very reason that there is absolutely no decent software available, and i don't know why people praise it so much. the only rip off, as far as paying for an OS goes, is buying windows. OSX is typically ~$30 (often free, depending on the time you purchased your mac), unless you're too cheap to pay that much for an OS?
And he will also apologize for this as well. He called the PS3 the same thing a few years back too. Just wait and see....... Gabe Newell, I really have no respect for this guy.
ziggurcat Software Support =/= A good operating system. Many of the linux distributions are far more efficient than Windows, and that's without even mentioning far better stability and ease of development. When's the last time you have heard of a Blue Screen of Death on Linux? Or anything equivalent? How about viruses? How many can you name for Linux that install themselves? Did you know it's a lot easier to develop on and for Linux, than it is to develop on and for Windows? Did you also know that the only reason that Linux doesn't have more software is because of its smaller user base? Please, if you don't know what you're talking about, don't talk at all. I've been using Linux for years, and the only reason I haven't made a full switch yet is because of games. As an aside - to say that there's no decent software available for Linux is either a deliberate lie or incredibly ignorant.
ziggurcat enjoy websurfin an games when the best solid servers are linux. bsd is from Unix but Linux is from minix an steam is targeting ubuntu which is debian. also you need to understand the diff between a kernal an a os cause your broad statement ignores it an so it is misleading. an bsd doesn't upgrade tech like linux. on the surface your comment looks true but peeps that live in the linux/bsd world know it only holds up on the surface. also if you think linux is garbage and no good software is available it just proves you don't know anything about linux. oh look i live in a little bitty hole an never experience the big ole world. an to some peeps above you can write a virus for a wind up watch but like linux its just a lot harder. @sjaakiejj above bubbles dude. excellent remarks.
Win 98 SE that is as a Mast-Tech Those good-ol usb drivers work miracles. I personally hated 95 and 98 once they fixed it with SE I was happy. 2000 = Ok os ME was HORSE crap. xp=Good after sp2 Vista still behaves as if every piece of code for the gui weighs 10 kilos. 7 came out of vista with a much lighter GUI in terms of optimization. Very good OS as of right now. I HATE WINDOWS 8 It is a F%^*&NG Tablet os, retrofitted with a non functional desktop. M-KB is the best way to get all media work done. Using the touch interface is for USERS who dont do anything more than browse the web, using fat sausage fingers to retype everything they mispelled in the address. MICROSOFT DAMMIT THATS WHY WE DONT USE FINGERPAINTS FOR FINE ART,touch isn't the end all be all and MSFOOT is giving up the one market they dominate, in order to look hip; the business market. SH^&TY a$$H0135 are ruining what they have in order to try to appeal to APPLES/Phone customers.
I agree too. BUT.... ...the main linux distro Ubuntu (as of 11.04) is trying to use Unity as the main UI. Unity is also a catastrophe, in bugs AND it just being a terrible interface. 10.04 (GNOME) for life.
The most popular Linux distro has been Linux Mint for 2 years now.
Have you even used 12.04? It's honestly not THAT bad. And keep in mind the whole concept of Unity is only about 2 years old; hardly enough time to develop a fully functional and perfect desktop. So I highly suggest you keep your mind open and actually TRY each release. Whether you like it or not, it IS getting better.
Hey, that means we can use Steam on our PS3's using the Other OS function! Oh wait... Just kidding ;)
Solution: Use the gnome fallback. It's incredibly easy to do so, and there's loads of guides that tell you how if you don't know yourself - it's copy paste.
Oh no I know how to use the gnome fall back, I just hate the OS includes it in general. Unity is a terrible interface, especially when you're a programmer like me and want to get to your programs quickly. It adds more clicks, takes Much more CPU than 10.04 with GNOME, and it just over all bad. And before I was too into Ubuntu, the 11.04 version with Unity is what I started on. I eventually went to the "no effects" mode on boot up hoping it would make it more stable and run better on my laptop, and boy did it. It was my first experience with GNOME, and it was great. Why they would ever change is beyond me, especially since my opinion is the common one with Ubuntu users. Unity sucks. Unity takes too much RAM. Unity is not needed, OR wanted. Unity is unproductive. Unity won't run on my P4 computer AND my AMD x64 with a 4250 mobile like 10.04. Unity is terrible over all to use and run. It sucks. You act as if I tried it for a day and said screw it. Nah,I used it for about a week, maybe a little more like 9 days. If I didn't discover the gnome shell after they pulled unity over my eyes, I'd not be using Ubuntu today. Hell, I'm on Ubuntu right now too. And that is true mint has been the most liked. It is only because 11.04 with Unity hit and everybody ran. I have yet to try it, but plan to. I just need a computer to put it on. :)
Seems that Microsoft is on a every other cycle. ME - Crap XP - Great Vista - Crap Windows 7 - Great Windows 8 - Possibly Crap Windows X - Hopefully learn leasons from 8 if crap. I think Windows 8 will be a great OS for touch devices but I already dislike the non-desktop feel...even when you try to tweek it to look like windows 7.
Yep, goes back further as well. Windows 95 - Good Windows 98 - Crap Windows 2000 - Good
windows 98 was actually good and there wasn't a good windows until windows XP
People say various versions of Windows was crap, and I used them all since the Win 3.1 days including Windows 3.11 for Workgroup until todays Windows 8. All of them was pretty damn good experience for me compared to the competition at the time. People often say stuff is crap, but they almost never say why. I would like to hear why people think certain OS are crap? Personally, Windows 8 for me personally and I have been using it as my daily and only OS since March, and it is by far the best OS I used thus far. The Metro screen is the fastest I have been able to access what I need. I love the taskbar with the pinning. The OS is also highly responsive, and my only gripes are slightly confusing Metro vs Desktop app start, and the lack of on-screen tutorial. Then again, I'm using a beta! I would like to hear what is wrong with Windows 8 beyond, it just plain sucks!?
false.. Win8 > win7.. Use it yourself and hop off the damn ban wagon.. Why would Gabe like win8?? http://www.youtube.com/watc... That is what he doesn't like it. And M$ will market the sh!t out of it. Window 8 bandwagon is similar to saying "Kony 2012!!" from article: "I think we'll lose some of the top-tier PC/OEMs, who will exit the market." and go where? They are not leaving windows. "Newell also talked about touchscreens, calling them "short-term" and saying he thinks the future of interaction will be through computerized wristbands." It sounds like Gabe is losing his mind.. Tablet > wristband.
@Nukeitall, I didn't like Windows 98 and ME cause they were unstable and froze a lot and i often had to rebuild numerous times on both OS's. 98SE fixed up a few of the issues with 98 though. Vista started out not supporting much of anything hardware wise (fixed overtime) and was overrun with horrid security rules. Try click something and it'll ask if you're sure, it also had it's own stability issues and ate tons of memory just running the simplist of tasks. (Like anything) Along comes Windows 7 and all that got resolved. Windows 8 is looking a lil scary cause the 'Start' button is gone, that horrid menu system from the new Office is in Explorer and Metro is as i'm told not very flexible.
Sticking with windows 7 for the foreseeable future. I mean even when vista came out, XP was still very well supported.
@nukeitall I'll tell you what is wrong with Windows 8 for desktops. The metro interface is essentially a fullscreen start menu. That is a terrible idea, because it takes you away from your work. It also gets cluttered easily if you install a lot of applications. You mention Windows 3.1, Metro on the desktop is essentially a step backwards towards 3.1. Finally, Metro is clearly an avenue for MS to push advertisements to the desktop. Accessing computer management takes longer. Hotcorners are annoying, most would prefer to click on an actual icon. There is no quick way to exit metro apps, you have to bring up the app drawer to do it. Hell, there isn't even an easy way to shutdown or reboot without creating your own shortcuts. Win8 will be good for tablets and the laptop/tablet hybrids, but its a disaster for desktop power users, and it will be until MS bypasses metro and restores start menu functionality.
with tthe preview you just click the desktop button and it looks like normal windows, although I despise the startbar function and that awful menu...
@BitbyDeath: "I didn't like Windows 98 and ME cause they were unstable and froze a lot" and Win 95 did not? "Vista started out not supporting much of anything hardware wise (fixed overtime) and was overrun with horrid security rules." I actually use that on any Vista computers I'm on. It doesn't ask very often, but try using Ubuntu. Instead of clicking, it will ask you to type in your password repeatedly! "Windows 8 is looking a lil scary cause the 'Start' button is gone, that horrid menu system from the new Office is in Explorer and Metro is as i'm told not very flexible." Perhaps you should use it yourself with an open mind, and you will find it is pleasant. It's usually people resisting change complaining, just how they complained about Vista. As soon as MS changed the name to Windows 7 and put a new coat paint on it, it was all of a sudden great! But you are entitled to your opinion and I appreciate you giving reasons, even though I don't agree with them. @Arksine: "I'll tell you what is wrong with Windows 8 for desktops. The metro interface is essentially a fullscreen start menu." Are you saying it is distracting you from your work? or are you saying, because you can't look at other parts of the screen while you start another application? "You mention Windows 3.1, Metro on the desktop is essentially a step backwards towards 3.1." In what way is it a step backwards? For me, it's a huge step backwards and I always wondered why they didn't do this sooner. It's freaken great! "There is no quick way to exit metro apps, you have to bring up the app drawer to do it." You don't "exit" a metro app, you switch to another one. Just hit the Windows button and start another app, similar to how you do it on iOS. Once you switch the app is suspended and will automatically shut down when needed to. "Hell, there isn't even an easy way to shutdown or reboot without creating your own shortcuts." Use the sidebar, hit setting, power and choose your option. In old Windows it was, start -> shutdown arrow -> shutdown mode. Both options require 3 clicks. If you don't like the new Windows, then fine, but what you describe seems like wrong use of Windows 8.
nukeitall "I would like to hear why people think certain OS are crap?" I think all versions of Windows are crap. They're unstable, convoluted, difficult to develop for, incredibly slow to use, inefficient, need a regular re-install, they force a Graphical Interface on you (as the command line is terrible), it's the worst operating system when it comes to security due to the way they're structured, they're expensive, installing and removing software is more difficult than it should be, the scripting functionality that they provide is atrocious, and they pretty much force everyone to use DirectX. And now on Windows 8 they also force you to use Windows Marketplace and Xbox Live, neither of which I have any interest in using. And yes, all of these reasons have affected me.
@nukeitall, i'm not seeing anything on Windows 8 worthy enough to leave Windows 7 for. Everything so far looks negative (IMO) and there is still nothing wrong with 7 in order to leave it in the first place.
ME and Vista were both unfinished versions of XP and Windows 7 respectively. They were rushed to market to create a revenue stream...nothing more. I had to support both ME and Vista for work, side work, and personal use. They both were driver hell and bug ridden. Sure… later patches may have made some things better, but by then that ship had already sailed. The jury will be out on Windows 8 for a while. Maybe I will get used to it, but for now I am too used to Windows 7. I would have appreciated a Windows 7 desktop appearance setting for Windows 8. MS can’t just assume people are going to change overnight just so that they can force adoption of a single OS model similar to iOS.
windows 8 will fail. time to try something else MS
Actually windows 8 is awsome sorry. Gabe really mean. "We don't like M$ store & xbox live on screen" Windows 8 is 90% the same thing as windows 7.. seriously I have beem using it for 1 month! Everything is better! Use it yourself don't steamgasm over what Gabe says. But I do like linux!
Gabe thinks M$ is trying to take away from Steams. And he may be right. But from a customer prospective, I think Windows 8 will be a huge success. I also think Steams will survive the Xbox intergration.
My only gripe is why is it called Xbox live on 8? Shouldn't it be Windows Live (messenger I know) or some derivative seeing as it's not actually an Xbox. That's the only crazy move I see. A unified name amongst all devices would be better.
Portal_2 It sounds like your trying to describe the Games for Windows Live service that Microsoft have. Which I believe was unfairly scrutinised and now has had all of its games integrated into Steam such as GTA IV, AoE Online and Microsoft Flight.
@Portal_2 - They're going to use the XBL name instead of Games for Windows Live because that name is poisoned. They've tried to relaunch it several times and PC gamers still despise it. They're hoping to bring some Xbox gamers over with the name change.
Every other Windows OS SUCKS! Win7 is great so Win8 will totally blow chunks. I'm stickign with 7 until something better comes out.
anyway Not just Valve but PC Gaming as a whole is slowly moving away from Windows PERIOD!
Devs want to get rid of the DirectX Api and just program directly on the GPU. The New "EFI BIOS" ( Extensible Firmware Interface) hopefully is a micro step towards that direction.
I wanna be able to just turn on my PC, see a list of games in Bios and boot directly into them and then load a OS into another screen if i need a OS running for other task.
Devs programming directly on the GPU/CPu would allow for greater optimization, Graphical Power, and greater game design instead of dealing with DIrect X or OpenGL limitations and flaws.
Without an api like directx or opengl every single model of gpu would need its own coding. Gpu api's are what makes it possible to make major releases to windows as a platform.
Win 8 is pretty much an optimized 7 . The point that strikes discord is the metro UI , wich you can easily avoid so far . I know it blows for those that prefer their start menu , i dont use start menu a lot to begin with , as i've got the habit of simply using tabs for shortcuts . And so far , that metro crap is just a full screen start menu wich is quick to access in & out . The moment microsoft decides to just let people keep the classic start menu , if they want to , things will quiet down
ATi_Elite said, "Devs programming directly on the GPU/CPu would allow for greater optimization, Graphical Power, and greater game design instead of dealing with DIrect X or OpenGL limitations and flaws." . . . Kinda sounds like you want what the consoles have.
Good luck with your user base Gabe!
He said they should(ms) do a do over.
@Mezzo.. There are definitely not quite up to scratch, but I personally like windows 8 so far. I do hope it gets much better too
Dont forget this is coming from the guy who said he hated the PS3 and thought it was a failure. Then a few months later was on the PS3 stage at E3 announcing Portal 2. What Gabe Newell says and what Gabe Newell does are to completely different things.
Here we go again, Gabe. I now await the day Gabe eats his words once again after Windows 8 Service Pack 3.
Yeah good luck with that. With no substance to his comment I chalk it up as hype for his business strategy. Been hearing the same thing overthe years about the end of Windows. Linux in the forefront. Same story different day new OS and the best he comes up with is hyping Linux to move his products to the platform. Is this what they been busy doing vs getting Half Life episode 3?
The link about windows 8 is scary....I pretty good with Linux as is, that could be the final straw for windows and me.
I'll just stick with Windows 7 lol.
Agreed, Windows 7 is awesome.
I would rather not give Shitaku a hit. Can someone post a source, or the part of the article that matters?
i never hit the links, free hits for childish journalism? heck nooooo
I used to do that, but I kept on getting my posts erased, although mos of the "journalists" on N4G basically do the same thing when they copy and paste info from another source onto their own website.
I'm probably going to really get into PC gaming again once this happens later this year.
Gabe seems to be the attacking a product not yet released on sale. Well the problem is, every year since 94 is the year for Linux yet they don’t make any impact and in the consumer market, adoption has been dismal. Does your average consumer even know an OS called Linux exist? People want Windows and Office. Other OS in the pc market just struggle against Windows. Even should Windows 8 fail, most people will just switch back to Win7.
That'd be great. The only reason why I ever use Win7 at is home is because my games don't run on Ubuntu. I'm probably never going to pay for another Windows OS or Office again the way it's been for a while.
I can see android and iOS maturing to the point where windows just dies. It will take years though, windows 8 might just be the beginning of the end.
@kevnb I have to disagree. IOS and Android are Mobile OS's Windows 8 is a full os Like OSX and Linux.
I have been using window 8 on my none touch Acer Aspire 5738 work got me 3 years ago and I have to say it runs better with windows 8 on it than it did with windows 7. As a X86/X64 OS the only big change from Windows 7 is the start screen which IMO works better than the start on any other version of Windows because it can be customised to have what ever you want on it.
After using the OS for a few months now I can say I am going to up grade to Windows 8 when it is out and I am going to upgrade my laptop to a Surface Pro when it is out late on this year.
The new Metro UI is more to be used for the RT version of the OS which will be mainly tablets. This will also have 2 plus points. 1st is the RT version of Windows can not be hurt by any Virus on any windows pc out there at the moment and the 2nd will enable MS to push Apple in the Tablet department for home users as they will have a app store for RT users plus all RT devices come with office 2013 too.
I don't know if Windows 8 will be a success or not but I can say I will be a user upgrading when it is out but to the business version rather than the RT version.
Home computers are becoming more irrelevant year by year as users get what they need from their phones or tablets (this last being the real killer). Not only that but the ones who WILL be using PCs (businesses and professionals) don't upgrade their OS just because a new OS came out. Microsoft knows that they've got to shift their OS onto tablets while trying to keep the home PC market dominance (have their cake while eating it too). It's a risky yet clever plan with uncertain results.
@Qrphe I agree but you still need a pc or mac to sync upgrade backup ect the Ipad. The biggest problem with the IPad and Android tablets is you still need a pc/mac to do this.
I have tried to use my Xoom as my day to day device but when I want to print something I need to have a pc turned on and connected to my pc with chrome installed and I cant print .PDF's of the web. If I want to edit a Word document there is no full office suite with it. I cant archive my emails.
I also cant brows all web sites ect. For me a Ipad and Android tablet can not replace my laptop but a Windows 8 tablet will be able to do this as well as let me use it for work too.
I know everyone is different but I know a lot of people who have an Ipad and everyone I have asked are you getting read of your laptop they have said no and given reason like I have said above as well as said they cant do there banking and more.
The Ipad and android is good for a quick pickup and play but as a computer it is no good and this is where Windows 8 and MS come into play and have the advantage over Apple and Android at this moment in time.
As for Business I agree that just because a new OS is out they will not upgrade there OS but what they will do is when they need a new pc they will buy a windows 8 pc which will also push the sales of Windows 8. I don't think MS will have a Vista issue this time around as Windows 8 imo is a very stable OS and works for business and home and I know my company is going to push Windows 8 when it comes out and I know quite a lot of businesses (IT resellers) that are going to do this too.
wow its refreshing to hear from a high profile name in the game industry give a honest opinion about windows. i don't understand why there has never been a serious alternative to windows and microsoft on a pc
Beucase MS owns a shitload of patents that are involve with making an OS. Also I love Linux but I'm in arch right now because there have been reports of hyperbole in the area. The reason no one at Valve wants to port steam to Linux, is that it's (in my experience) very difficult to develop for it. The problem is that you don't just develop a program for "Linux", you develop it for *BSD, *buntu, Knoppix, Solaris, Arch, Fedora, Mint, etc. and you have to package it in .rpm .deb and a .tar.gz. That all is rather easy to automate, but once you release you end up with a bug list 5000 entries long that says: crash in Fedora 14 x64, cannot access *whatever* in Ubuntu 10.04. The endless update-pushes and infinite configurability of Linux means that you need to support _infinite_ configurations. Even more than with windows. Whoever ends up porting to Linux will get slapped in the face with issues, and now someone has to fix them or Valve will look bad. Also, wine works fine. Oh, but please port steam to Linux :p
Difficult to develop for? Nah. That's why Ubuntu is the base platform for Steam Linux; they not only have one of the biggest amount of users but they also have the same goal of bringing Linux to the masses. And honestly, Ubuntu is easily one of the most stable Linux OS's around (despite Unity [which is being worked on as we speak])
Making games for windows 7 makes them windows 8 compatible. However I agree with Gabe MS wants Windows 8 to work like a smart phone OS rather than a computer OS and thats why its terrible for gamers other than casuals.
I have the ASUS EP121 Slate PC and have installed the WIN8 Consumer Preview and I have to say, it is AWESOME...... It takes the shortcomings of WIN7 on a TOUCH SCREEN and makes them even more intuitive and easier to use. While I really have enjoyed the ASUS EP121, it was not as easy to use the on-screen keyboard as I would have liked, but with the new WIN8 updates and improvements its much easier than I had imagined it would be. While I think the metro interface will have a slight learning curve for some users, I think it works great, but for those NAYSAYERS who have voiced opinions about METRO without actually using a WIN8 machine....should keep those opinions to themselves as they dont know what they are talking about. Whats the point of a SWIPE type OS if you dont have a touch screen or tablet to take full benefit? I do think MS should give the OPTION of switching to a "CLASSIC" screen for those who use the KB and MOUSE all day long. The intuitiveness of how WIN8 Integrates with everything I already do, like with skydrive, hotmail, messenger, xbox, etc. is awesome. Setup one log-in and everything is there and already working! Keep an open mind, I think WIN8 will suprise alot of people out there, this is not your fathers "vista" upgrade like many think it will be!
While I don't like the metro look of the start screen, I honestly don't understand his argument. The only major changes to windows 8 is a different start/login screen where you can customize everything to your liking and