Ubisoft Toronto boss tells OXM: "I have this dream that, ultimately, we're going to end up creating the Holodeck."
No. Personally I'd hate that, a holodeck is cool but it's not for gaming. I hate this new "You have to move to play things" sod that.
... I just want to sit down, hold a normal controller, and play great games. That's all. Why is that so difficult for some developers/publishers to understand!?
I agree with Raymond on this. Gaming and the world's contained therein are only to get more complex and varied. What is the whole point of strides in gaming and evolving the gaming universe if we limit ourselves to draconian interaction by way of a few face buttons on a controller? Granted, it works, for now, but soon, with all the amazing developments we will have in AI, physics, visuals etc, are you really going to be content with pressing a few buttons and wiggling analog sticks? Obviously, the technology has to surpass the level we are seeing. I'm talking about a true way to enhance interactivity (minority report/ virtual reality) not the slow and cumbersome Kinect way. I think Jade is alluding to that too.
"Why is that so difficult for some developers/publishers to understand!?" Because if they tap into a market that is beyond the "hardcore" gamer. Then you are not relevant anymore. It's a business. Not a friend service.
Neural controllers will be what we need.Imagine being able to control the character as you would your own body.The controllers already are around but there not yet at the level where they need to be.Also the software really would need to take advantage of them.Just letting you control as if your using a controller is not good enough.
A mouse and keyboard can have the most complicated controls, so theirs really no need for any of that... just make consoles compatible with them and then there will be no problem.
@MAJ0R The mouse is great but the keyboard is not as good as a analog stick for directional control.
"Why is that so difficult for some developers/publishers to understand!?" This question was answered before you even asked it. “If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses.” - Henry Ford
They could just fix the damn dpad. Probably would really make a huge difference and save money.
exactly, as if traditional control are becoming the setbacks of technology! well let them hear this, most motion control games are for retards who are too lazy to walk up a stair. it's total bullshit to think traditional controls are hindering progress while most of the new control technology have some of the worst games possible that mostly targets to casual gamers. leave my controls the way they are, thank you.. witch.
I've heard it all now, "motion controls are for lazy people", and yet just a few posts up we have gamepadtards saying they want sit down, or possibly lie on their back, possibly with a machine breathing for them, possibly also while being fed through a tube, when they game. And as for complexity, how can you seriously compare two analog sticks and a dozen buttons to the full range of motion the human body is capable of? Gamepads are more complex than the human body? Please.
agreed when i come home from a hard days work i wanna sit down relax hold a controller and play a game , not jump around like a retard punching air, or swing a controller around like im having a seizure to imitate a sword strike, i HATE motion control
I want to see a system incorporate a simple keypad, but with a controller with a stick for directional movement, and a mouse. The controller portion could be held so that the pointer finger could access the keys. And have a dedicated quicksave button. Mmmmmm.... /dreaming
It's impractical. The day all controllers are removed from our hands and we're forced to move around like idiots to play every game, is the day I stop gaming. Whoever this Jade is, needs to stop referencing the Holodeck from Star Trek. It ain't happening in her lifetime. So stop interfering with my games. Thx.
"Why is that so difficult for some developers/publishers to understand!?" Because you and I are already "hooked" and its people like my step-father (almost 50 y/o) that they want to start selling games to. I have to say that I agree with Jade on this one. My step father loves to watch me play Call of Duty, RE 5 and RDR. He even suggests things to do to beat certain levels and bosses. But I think he feels overwhelmed when it comes to picking up the gamepad and enjoying games for himself. It may be that "aim with the right stick, now hold the R1 Button and then press X to shoot" scares him and millions of people off.
I think she is wrong. If she want's to create games for gamers than you must give us some sort of physical control. Stuff like PSeye and Kinect are nice additions but for a gamer, not someone who plays 2 hours a week but a real gamer you have to have a controller of some sort that we can touch and press. Maybe, the controller design needs to advance...more buttons?? different designs?? touchpads??? maybe even pressure control?? There are many things they could do but most companies just keep comfortable and put out what works. Personally, after 12 hours of work when I get home, I don't want to jump around in front of the TV like a monkey to enjoy a game. Just want to sit down and grab a controller and play. I understand that things need to progress but as of right now the best progress would be a better controller not motion controls and defenatly not neural controls. @sjaakiejj That was a bad comparison. The invention of cars is a much bigger deal than say motion controls of video games. You must see that, don't you?? I mean, it's outlandish what you even tried to imply there. @theaceh And making stupid gestures in front of the TV is not scaring people?? You think that motion controls are easier??? Try MK on the wii for example. The more complicated and deeper a game is, the harder it is to control let that be with a controller or with motion controlls. People who are 50+ and never played a single game in their lives any game could be complicated. So, should we shut down some products production because some people don't understand it??? Or what's the deal here?
even the vitas touch screen is a little too much for me lol. just let me control everything without me having to take my hands out of the comfortable controller-like-position! sixaxis was good, anything else is too much for me. the vitas ARreality games are cool as hell to.
yet we have been gaming the same way for 30+ years. God forbid something comes along to change that. Something to break the traditional barriers that have been built up around each person. Maybe people dont like the idea of a motion controlled virtual environment but that isnt to say that it would ALWAYS be the same motion controlled virtual environment. As with traditional gaming evolving from simple buttons to more complex directional inputs. Motion gaming could get to be just as advanced if not more detailed with detection of the slightest bit of movement. I see motion gaming like i see 3d. It works for some but not all. until they can make it work for ALL then it will remain stuck in a "gimmick" labeled state. Something needs to come along to break that stereotype and lead the way for innovation. We have only just started to take a serious look at what the future of interactive entertainment holds.
@darthv72 People ARE afraid of change! It happens all the time all around us every day. Thirty years ago, the idea of Kinect was as foreign as the concept of a computer on every desk! Look what we have now!
LOL @ people taking her literal.. She means controllers are a barrier to casuals not the average gamer. Nintendo proved this with the Wii outof the box with Wii Sports and Kinect has pushed it further. When grandmothers who enjoy bowling can play Kinect Sports without anything in their hands because it feels natural to control the avatar that way then I can see that pushing the tech further easily would be a goal for the future. Anybody who saw the infamous hologram Tupac on stage at the concert really believed he was there in person. Games are already pushing real vs. artificial environments..a futuristic Happy Action theater type game where you interact with hologram AIs in Elder Scrolls would be incredible. People literally laughed at the Wii...until they saw it worked. No matter how much hate Kinect gets..I've owned one since day and the look on peoples faces (especially kids) when they control the screen with no input never gets old. I agree who wouldn't want better tech out there for the 720 etc..but people need to stop overreacting..The controller we ALL know and love isn't going anywhere. Evil
Kinect and the idea behind Kinect doesn't capture the ever-lovely Jade's vision of a holodeck. You know is really holding us back...television, not controllers. To get to a "holodeck", we would have to unshackle gaming from the television. We need either 360 degree full wall interface and multi-angle 3D, or bypass an interface entirely by sending electronic experiences directly to the brain by some some 21st century neuro-voodoo. End of the day, shaking like an idiot isn't going to turn into an immersive experience no matter how fun it is. You have to totally confuse the boundary between the subject and the game. Even with Kinect, the gaming world is viewed through a peep hole. Mine happens to be 37" of peephole, but a peephole nonetheless.
I agree with you on this too, I just want a controller... none of this motion controller, or holodeck stuff.
Quite frankly, I believe Move is the way to go. Now just before you crucify me here, let me explain... I don't mean Move as it is. Even if it's 1:1 motion controls aren't always precise in the sense that many times you are doing stuff that you don't want to, it tends to complicate the easiest tasks and it requires you to monkey around. But what I mean by "the way to go" is the integration of buttons/sticks, trackable motion controllers, body tracking camera and a mic. Of course, Sony themselves don't use all those features at the same time and what I'm talking about here is a much more refined hardware and software. In my vision of ideal future gamepad, the most democratic, it would be just like a regular gamepad but broken/breakable in two parts, left and right "wings" with all buttons, triggers and sticks it usually have. You can game just like with a gamepad. But it's also capable of tracking the controllers position so if they are far apart you access motion controls and you can point or waggle away, 1:1, while you can just bring 'em close to each other again and stop with that... If you decide to just use half controller you can use your free hand to give gesture commands to the camera or you can track your whole body moving, using controllers or not depending on the genre. And you have a mic, I think you can guess what to do with it... AH, no glowing balls. I know it's not perfect or original... In fact it's just a mixed Razer Hydra and PS Move concept including some Kinect functionality. The thing is, it don't need to be perfect or original. I don't believe in the perfect control scheme and I believe we have every interaction tools we need already, they just aren't working together... This way we could have the best of both worlds when the game demand it or just set the controls to our like. Anyway, the number 1 guys I would look forward to develop this would be Sixense Entertainment, their own PC motion controller Razer Hydra is a great start to look for the future of controllers, but it requires to be placed on a table so not ideal for console players.
@darth "As with traditional gaming evolving from simple buttons to more complex directional inputs. Motion gaming could get to be just as advanced if not more detailed with detection of the slightest bit of movement. " Man i am not interested in putting on a mo cap suit. To play games , if you want to by all means. Sorry the end game, is basically vr or the matrix which will likely use a gamepad or neural controls, maybe put the person in a dream like/rem state. If it basically a glorified sports champions, why bother. Why is this woman, trying to open a pandora's box for developers. Right now, game developers only deal with 2 senses, sight and sound. Add the other 3 taste, scent and touch and your asking for a whole other world of problems. How do you code the difference between warm and too hot, since we all have different perspectives. Or taste or smell, the only people doing anything near that, to my knowledge is the army for ptsd treatment of returning vets. Lol at the personal fitness trainers like nukeitall on n4g. Dude that is more bullshit, than whose console is the best argument. Well if controllers are a barrier for jade raymond, i will be more than happy to never buy a game she is in charge of. Septic By the time that happens we will all be in an old folks home or the ground.
This controller barrier talk is such rubbish.
Best selling game console of all time: Still Playstation 2. Controllers don't scare off the masses and motion isn't making games more complex. The Wii's success was all about promises of weight loss and attracting audiences not typical to gaming. And unfortunately, ignorant suits are all trying to duplicate that success and think motion is the only way to do so.
Everyday that becomes less than an argument. We have a generation where people are comfortable with video games. Everyone under 50 has grown up with videogames. Gaming has a stigma and people use it as an excuse not to play it. That's all, and that stigma is going too. Even if it didn't go away, it's a moot point. Casuals, and this includes those who buy the two games every year - COD and Madden, aren't really worth the fuss in an industry where the money is made in software. In comes the Wii, and we have a perfect storm as health conscious parents with family friendly Nintendo games at a cheap price. We have millions buying a console that may never had one. This sound well and good, but this is just a vapor-market that really doesn't benefit the industry. So why even chase them?
I'm thinking of a 4 letter acronym ....thats all I got to say.
After working 7-8 hrs plus 1-2 hrs of travel time what makes these people think id want to jump around some more when all i wanna do is just sit, relax, and play a great game.
Active people that do that on a regular basis? I currently work 14-16 hour a day, and I still find time and energy to go jogging 30 minutes several times a week. However, nothing prevents you from playing your laid back couch potato games. I do it too and don't expect that to go away!
@nukeitall 14-16 hours? is that why you're so negative all of the time?
Exactly(KUDOS)@TBM Motion Control is a selfish idea because people gaming situations are different from one another.
Motion control gaming really loses its value when you're already active in real life. I have a very active job and I do gym so when I'm home, I rarely want to get up and keep moving. 12
@nukeitall I wake up at 7 in the morning. Lift weights for an hour, than go to work. I work 12hours a day after that. When I get home at 10:30pm, I'm tired but still want to have an hour or so fun...do you think I want to jump around in front of the TV like an idiot??? No, I don't. I am an active person but there are limits. I work 5 days a week and I work out every single day. 4 days weights and 3 days cardio. I'm sorry buddy but what you said is a load of BS.
@nukeitall For somebody who trolls a lot and claims he works a lot is sure on n4g 24/7 trolling.
What's wrong with sitting on a couch and enjoy being lazy and play games.
Absolutely nothing my good man this is the way majority of us games prefer to game. you are spot on in your post :-) hell when i want to be active I'll go outside and do something lol. when i game i just want to be lazy :-)
I don't understand? Why do the dreams of non gamers have an effect on what and how I play the games I wanna play. First it was FF 12, they changed the combat when noone, and I mean absolutely noone asked for a change, then came ff13, I would have prefered FF12 gameplay, then came the Wii controller, the most broken control scheme of anyone default controller for a game system (and at least nintendo is going back to their roots), and then came all shovelware fps games this gen, then came kinect and nothing but dance games, and now we have a holodeck? How the heck am I supposed to use it for gaming? I'm so sick of rich people trying to reinvent the wheel. I have a dream too btw, I have a dream that one day Jade will stop being a gaming executive and do what she was built for. Stripping and dancing on poles, thats where this sexy momma belongs.
Just wanted to add to your history lesson since you mentioned Kinect. Don't forget the Move from Sony the controller that is mimicked from the wi. Its an control scheme addon no diffrent then Kinect. Now my personal opinion is motion gaming in its present form hampers gaming more then helps. In the future that may change but until it does I want my controller and that is all.
i had the same dream
Oh man. Remember all those times you were in the middle of playing a game and you thought to yourself "You know what's really keeping me from enjoying this game? Having to use a controller." Yeah, neither do I.
Actually I have said that to myself and have heard it from others when using the Move Controller for Dance games like Zumba fitness, work out games, Fitness games and of course fighting games. Not all gaming experiences should hinder you to have to use a controller while other games requires it. There are games that make sense to use a controller like FPS games, fighting games and even games that would require a controller like Move or Wii mote such as Golf, Baseball or a good sword fighting game. To fully experience the potential a game has to offer, you need the right equipment to play it. In some cases a controller is needed, in others it is not. Now you could make the argument that games that are the top selling and reviewed games for kinect are games that you could do without having to own a kinect like working out or dancing....
That's because those games are designed with the current controllers in mind. Look at the eveolution of controllers. It went from the 2600, joystick and one button to what we have now. Two analogs, a d-pad, four button and 4 shoulder buttons. You never thought of it because the games were designed for it. But there are people who think outside the box and are always looking at the future.
@Lvl_up_gamer Show me a single AAA game that was built for the Move or for the Kinect and was meant for gamers, not casuals. Please. Because I REALLY want to play that "good sword fighting game" you are talking about.
@ Ares84HU Why does it matter if it's for core or for casual? I would say I am core, yet I still enjoy Move sports, Fitness Evolved and messing around having a good laugh with the wife and friends playing Dance Central. So again I ask, why does it matter if it's a game for core or casuals? If you are a "true" gamer, then you wouldn't limit yourself to playing games only in 1 way but would be more open minded to experience new ways to enjoy games. I am willing to bet that 99% of the people on this site are "core" gamers but have no doubt that they have also played some kind of motion game requiring either a wii-mote, PS Move or Kinect. Don't label all gamers as black or white. Core audiences dabble in casual and vise-versa. Gamers are open to EVERYONE, not just 1 particular crowd. I am sure at some point YOU must have tried the Wii, Move or Kinect.
Common sense says no. With a Controller ================= You have a device that can be held by anyone with two working hands with a simple button/trigger/analog configuration that can be easily learned and utilizes muscle memory concepts to improve in such things. The controller doesn't care where you are sitting, how you are positioned, who is in the same room as you are, what the level of light in the room is, or the like. It also allows for full 360 movement on just one analog stick and adds the third plane with the second analog stick. Without a Controller ==================== You will need to be positioned in front of a device. You will need to make sure that lighting conditions are right. You will need to make sure your movements are visible. You will not have any muscle memory to aid you in determining how to make gestures to recreate actions on the screen other than the most basic of actions (if you are using the XBox UI with Kinect, for example, you are not going to put your hand up in the spot that is exactly where the action you need to activate is because you move and that changes the point of reference, this doesn't happen with a controller). You will need to memorize specific gestures for specific games. You will experience greater delay than what can be had with a controller, no matter how far technology goes. There is just more processing to be had if there isn't a direct line of feed sending exact numerical data on this rather than having to interpret and process it as an image or similar. Conclusion ========== I 100% disagree that controllers are a barrier. They are a tool that allows us the best option for non-K&M gaming with precise control in our games while presenting the lowest levels of latency between user and program.
But what if the motion controls could be improved. We all say "no" because today's controllers are our comfort zone and we can't comprehend anything beyond that. But remember when the NES controller was introduced with a D-pad and two buttons? It was like woooooow! What could be better than this? Then analog was introduced, shoulder buttons, vibrations. Motion controls are in its infancy right now but I'm sure it is the next step in controller evolution.
And why is that? Why do people assume that new technologies are always better or more convenient to us consumers? The move is almost flawless and i still believe that it is nothing more than a shitty gimmick. Now imagine what i feel about Kinect or the PS eye!
Agreed 100% with cgoodno @maniac Let's take one example of racing game genre. How long do you think you can drive a virtual car by holding your arms in-front of you and pretending you're holding a steering wheel, or even that stupid wireless steering wheel MS released recently without placing on some support? Jade was good back in the day but now she's more like sarah palin talking nonsense.
***But what if the motion controls could be improved. We all say "no" because today's controllers are our comfort zone and we can't comprehend anything beyond that.*** Because direct feed with pre-designated numerical data is always going to be faster to handle/process than data that has to process non-numerical data. What I mean is that when Kinect scans you body, it has to process that data into the same numerical data that would have been sent directly from a controller so that it can then be used by the software. ***But remember when the NES controller was introduced with a D-pad and two buttons? It was like woooooow! What could be better than this? Then analog was introduced, shoulder buttons, vibrations. *** That doesn't support the concept. Improvements to controllers is plausible and expected. For example, a massive improvement right now would be to move away from the 8-direction analog sticks that controllers use today to either a laser-based 360 degree design that would allow for more precise measurement and smoothing movement rather than what we have now which is code that simulates smooth actions. ***Motion controls are in its infancy right now but I'm sure it is the next step in controller evolution.*** You do realize that we're talking about removing controllers, right? That the original statement was in regard to the need to use a controller. This means a Kinect-based system that won't require you to hold anything for input. Both the Wii Motion+ and the Move controller are not the same as they constantly send numerical data to the software. In fact, the move controller, at its current stage, is the best in simulation a 1:1 interaction with the motion control. But, that's not what is being discussed. What's being discussed is the complete removal of controllers.
I have to confess, when I think about motion controls, I'm actually thinking of a hybrid between what's you're suggesting about 360 degree analogue control and motion control. When discussing motion controls, a lot of people think of whole-body Kinect type hardware but that's not what I think. I'm thinking of someone sitting down, playing a future Mass Effect game for example, holding some kind of controller but also using their hands to use a biotic power for instance by literally picking up an enemy with their hands and tossing them aside. I think there is a reason why so many games this generation have QTE sequences- they usually involve bashing a button but the action on screen is so much more intricate than the controller allows. Imagine a game like Fallout for example, where you are walking by a city covered in dust. You want to peer inside a car and have to slide away the dirt on the windscreen using your hands. Subtle things like that, I believe, can really enhance immersion. [Edit] I just had a thought whilst lying in bed. A problem with the whole wiping the dirt off the windshield scenario is the lack of feedback (unless you have some sort of glove controller). What if, we have controllers like how Microsoft alluded to, on surface projections for example, your glass coffee table. Imagine projecting a keyboard on that and playing a game where you have to hack into a database.....okay I'll stop. It's 4am here.
Just Jade showing off how poorly placed she is in the industry. LOL, Holodeck. "I want to buy your [holodeck] game, Jade!" Although she's not the only out-of-touch (pants)suit in the industry. All chasing that magic technology that will never match pressing a button or pushing a stick. Simply having motion won't recreate wii success, un-intimidate non-gamers, or make controls more complex (and because of delay, never will).
Just stick with traditional controllers, i hate gimmicks.
Their minds are a "huge" barrier for creativity. Simple
You guys should check out 'Leap Motion'. It's like kinect but on steroids. It tracks individual fingers. Can be used for PC browsing and gaming, even with hardcore titles such as half life 2 and it's only going to cost around $80 in comparison. Now this will/can be practical. Unlike kinect because it won't restrict games, and add more interactivity. Pretty cool. Although i really think we should stick to controllers until we have the whole fully augmented gaming experience. That's the only time i'd be up for change and even then it rather not have to stand up and run around every time i want to game. Source: http://www.youtube.com/watc...
that does look awesome.
I would love to play games in Virtual Reality with a controller in my hand. If I were in a holodeck sitting down but as I'm playing the game think that I'm standing up then that would be cool. Lots of potential but I do see the fears with slow kinect.
@sidar "Because if they tap into a market that is beyond the "hardcore" gamer. Then you are not relevant anymore." Although your point is not wrong, I think you also have to look at the flipside. Once the non-hardcore gamer gets bored of their shiny new toy, they unplug it, and stick it into storage. Best case scenario they buy a handful of new games a year often stuff they pull out of the bargain bin. Although tapping into the casual market can make them a quick buck, without the hardcore market they will not be able to sustain their business long term.
Exactly!! I just hope that these people like Jade will realize this one day.
Somebody mail her the Extra Credits Kinect episode..
The day we don't have standard controllers is when i will quit gaming. Its not happening anytime soon, see how even Nintendo had to introduce a standard controller. Not every publisher was on board with ipad look alike being a gaming controller but one thing i do hope for is that ps4 has a little better controller. When it comes to play any games where you shooting people or racing cars xbox360 controller is better suited for that. not to piss off any ps fanboys lol just a point, i myself am a huge ps fan
^^^CustardTrout--Exactly! The good ole controller is 100% reliable. They keep going too far with all this "futuristic" stuff.
GTFO Jade Raymond
I dont know about you all but i'm looking forward to a Dual Shock 4. Enough of this motion sensor talk surrounding gaming. If she is involved in major decision making in Ubisoft, now i understand why Ubisoft has been below par for quite sometime
Scared of a forward thinking women
Meh, controlling games with my mind seems extraneous.
"forward", yes we are!
For all Disagrees i hope she in this industry for a long time, hope many of her concept come to fruition & hope many more forward thinkers like her join the industry .
Thinkers that ruin gaming instead of improving it can go to hell! "controlling games with my mind seems extraneous." And not challenging at all. Just think and the avatar will instantly do it? BORING! The challenge in games comes from eye-hand coordination and without challenge games are not fun at all!