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PS3 10x Xbox 360, 5x Nvidia GT8800 GTS @ Procedural Texturing

It appears that Cell is a perfect match for procedural texturing and ray tracing, as witnessed with these ProFX middleware technology benchmarks. ProFX is now in some form, apart of PS3 middleware.

The Bayou benchmark below was completed in 10 seconds by the 360, 5 seconds by the 8800GTS and 1.2 seconds by the PS3.

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tk3438d ago

Quick - here comes the "Report as Rumor", "Spam", "False" etc band to can this story...

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CrashSharc3438d ago

dude, you are coming off really desperate. It's the cell they were testing. They ran the same exact tests for all the subjects. Whatever, deny all you want. It's already common knowledge that the CELL is superior at ray tracing and procedural Textures. Everything was tested as a SYSTEM. The CELL and RSX works as a system. get over it already. Everyone knows that once devs are able to program for all these complex function using the CELL, the PS3 will set itself apart from the competition more than it already has.

Lord Anubis3438d ago (Edited 3438d ago )

"programming the PS3's eight Synergistic Processing Units (SPUs) can be quite challenging from time to time, but there is definitely a lot to gain from the architecture, and ProFX on PS3 should run impressively fast. (We should get confirmation on that by the end of the year or so

A very cool side effect of the PS3's architecture is that ProFX should be able to continuously stream textures -- using one or two SPUs to compute the textures to be given to the GPU to be displayed, that's a huge bonus for adding rich content to games without having to stream that content from the BluRay or overloading the sole GPU of the machine.
"

Cell is perfect for streaming i wonder if we are going to see it on GTA's engine just like we've seen it in other games.

----------------------------- ------------------------------

The entire interview with the guy from ProFX

Graphics, Games, and Multi-core
Jonathan Erickson
The challenges for developers may not be just technical

Today's guest is Sebastien Deguy, president and founder of Allegorithmic.

DDJ: Sebastien, the Allegorithmic web site mentions "procedural textures." What does that mean?

SD: Procedural textures are textures defined according to an algorithm. Instead of painting (by hand) the texture pixel by pixel, you define the way these pixels have to be lit to produce the texture you want. It's basically like writing a program, and with that program comes all the power of algorithms over frozen (bitmap) data -- compactness, data amplification, parameterization, and the like.

When the procedural texture is defined, you launch an engine for actually generating the bitmap textures. These are called realizations of the procedural description, and it's a lot like the difference between a -- possibly random -- process and the realization of that process.

In the case of Allegorithmic's procedural textures, you'd define the procedures in a nice visual way using our product MaPZone, then use our other technology ProFX to rasterize the images, producing the final result to be displayed by a game engine or any renderer.

There are many advantages to using procedural textures instead of bitmap textures, one of them being that procedural texture files are typically 500-1000 smaller than bitmaps (making them ideal for online games).

DDJ: I'm familiar with 3D textures. But what are 4D textures?

SD: 4D here stands for 3D + Time. 4D textures means evolving textures, evolving environments and games. On our web site we showcase a demo around that idea, where a bathroom goes from a clean state to a dirty state in real-time.

Procedural textures, because they are driven by parameters, can be driven by time. And by letting time go by, the aspect of the textures can be changed, going for example from a clean state to a deprecated one.

Now imagine that applied to a game, where the whole environment and characters are changing, evolving, according to time but also to your actions within that environment. Actual PCs and consoles can handle this, and I must say I can't wait to see games using this as a feature.

DDJ: If I recall from your web site, a platform you will shortly be supporting is Playstation 3. What benefits and challenges do multi-core processors bring to the scene?

SD: Procedural techniques are demanding in terms of power, so the more power you can get, the better it is in that respect. Going multi-threaded is quite easy generally speaking for image-based work (you can divide the image in several pieces and work in parallel), and so the more cores you can get, again, the better it will be.

That said, programming the PS3's eight Synergistic Processing Units (SPUs) can be quite challenging from time to time, but there is definitely a lot to gain from the architecture, and ProFX on PS3 should run impressively fast. (We should get confirmation on that by the end of the year or so

A very cool side effect of the PS3's architecture is that ProFX should be able to continuously stream textures -- using one or two SPUs to compute the textures to be given to the GPU to be displayed, that's a huge bonus for adding rich content to games without having to stream that content from the BluRay or overloading the sole GPU of the machine.

You should see more graphically impressive games than ever with that kind of combination.

DDJ: We've seem to have made great strides in terms of texture mapping and other forms of 3D modeling. What's the next big challenge?

SD: There are many technical challenges that I could point out here. But I'd like to focus on one. Game developers now have a lot more content to produce, store, and distribute than ever before. MMORPGs are a good example here, filling up a BluRay of 50GB of content (instead of 5GB for a single layer DVD) is another one.

The question is then, for producing 10 times more content, do you want to grow your company by a factor of 10? Although I like the idea of allowing the industry to grow significantly, and although I love the idea of providing the maximum people with a cool job, I don't believe it's feasible that way.

Therefore game developers have to find new ways of not only producing that content, but also storing and delivering it.

I strongly believe procedural techniques for content creation are a major solution to that challenge:

* It's proven that, because defining procedural content is a highly non-linear process, you produce more content faster than with traditional techniques by reusing a lot of the base elements you've been producing along the line.
* Procedural content can be easily customized and created by gamers, and user-generated content is another key element for producing never-ending content.
* Procedural content files are typically parameters or code, which is usually extremely small compared to what it can produce. And that makes them ideal for the storage and furthermore the delivery of that content.

Of course, going from a traditional approach for content production to using generative techniques can be quite a challenge by itself, but it's worth the effort, and one of the only ways I see for raising the bar in terms of next-generation content creation.

DDJ: If readers want to find out more about these topics, can you suggest a web site? [okay to point to www.allegorithmic.com - YES]

SD: First, I invite readers to take a look at the web site dedicated to ProFX, Allegorithmic's middleware for procedural texturing, where they can find a lot of information regarding procedural texturing for games:

They can also check the Wikipedia webpage about procedural generation as a whole, and see that it's quite a hot topic right now (waiting for Spore!

JsonHenry3438d ago

You can come out with any claim you want - it has yet to be seen as indisputably better in real world gaming performance. When the PS3 starts blowing the 360 out of the water (and I mean NO questions as to the PS3 being better) then I will be a believer.

Until then it has been tit-for-tat between the 360 and the PS3. And the 8800gts comparison? What of it? It has no general purpose CPU. What would you expect?

JsonHenry3438d ago

I think you and I may be wasting our knowledge and time on this site...

AllroundGamer3438d ago

reporting as offensive, calling other people idiots is just saying alot about your age and IQ...

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zambrota3438d ago

ps3 has 512mb of memeory --256mb XDR at 3.2ghz and 256mb of GDDR3 at 700mhz

xbox has 512mb of GDDR3 at 700mhz

The XDR ram is not just more than 4x faster as GDDR3 it is also more efficient.

The ps3 has 512kb of cache + 256*7 kb for all 7 spes

total 2.3mb cache

xbox has 1mb of much slower cache

ps3 wins in all respect

Homicide3438d ago

Yes, all hail the PS3 for it's superior hardware.

i Shank u3438d ago (Edited 3438d ago )

ok. so you spammed a huge comment with technobabble and links. thats great and all, but it still doesnt answer this simple, logical question; if RSX and cell are 10X more powerful then 360 (Xenos); then why dont ps3 games look even 2X better then 360 games? hell, they dont look 1.5X better then 360 games! they look, for more or less, the same! so why have all that power if it doesnt do anything in real world results? and why gloat and rant and rave about it, if you have no real world evidence to back it up (I.E. a game that makes Gears of War on 360 look like playdoh)?

zambrota3438d ago

I posted facts

Uncharted looks atleast 3x better than any x360 game out there.

Uncharted uses just 30% of ps3's power .

Uncharted makes Gears look like a wii game.

even UT3 is much better looking than GEARS

as for Uncharted no x360 game would reach its level it x360's entire lifetime

novaIS3503438d ago

Zambrota just murdered you guys on wax. With CITATIONS and all. Let them breathe bro.

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Zool 083438d ago

answer, GT5, Uncharted Drakes Fortune, Motorstorm & Ratchet and Clank TOD and thats just for starters (at best only 30% of PS3's capabilities) and this year will see the graphical capability between the Ps3 and 360 widen even further now that a lot of developers are getting to grips with the Ps3 architecture so watch this space.

zambrota3438d ago

DMC 4 looks wayy better on PS3.

not just better but way better on PS3 HDMI.

http://www.n4g.com/ViewImag...

ps3 version looks miless better ,has faster fr and more colour

also ps3 version has motion blur

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BobDog3437d ago (Edited 3437d ago )

ps3 has same amount as ram as 360, 512mb, from memory 360's ram runs at 800mhz, 256 of ps3 ram runs at 3.2mhz, and the other 256 runs at 800mhz

so ps3 has same amount of ram as xbox, but ps3 ram runs faster

so with these ram limitations on the ps3, u xbox guys must have 1 hell more of a problem on ur 360

@ below i played bioshock on my pc, (e6600 overclocked, 2gig ddr2 800mhz ram, 8800gts (640meg1),

and the games graphics are not crash hot, and i think its the worst story line ever, just my opinion. this is assuming pc and 360 versions are the same, im just talking about the pc version

o and i sooooo didnt see the twist at the end /sarcasm

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TheSadTruth3437d ago

@TK

It's funny how blog spam isn't allowed but forum posts are.

http://www.n4g.com/NewsPend...

Oh wait, it's just fine as long as it promotes the Playstation 3

LastDance3437d ago

I hate the Crap box as much as the next ps3 fan... But The difference graphically are very minor.

I played the prologue to gt5 its not drop dead amazing graphics.
Uncharted looks great..the facial expressions compared to GOW are insane....

But in overal graphics wise there's defiantly no winner.

DARKKNIGHT3437d ago

xbox fans are getting their hearts broken as they read this.

anyways, we all knew the ps3 is superior. LOOK AT RESISTANCE 2.

gt.kz2.....just look at the exclusives.

wageslave3437d ago (Edited 3437d ago )

Why was 1.1, 1.6, 1.9, 1.10, 1.16 reported as spam?

This site has taken to abusing the reporting system to censor people. My comment was on topic, accurate and clear.. as were the others.

The reason it was reported as spam? The Sony Defence Force -- who are ruining N4G -- are abusing the forum system to remove what they dont like.

There is NOTHING worse than a gang of CENSORS.

Pain3437d ago

seems like it.

ps3 ftw

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TheExecutive3438d ago

From what I understand of procedural texturing this is a big step up for gaming. One thing i think people dont understand is that the RSX may not be as beefy as the 360's GPU but the Cell can take MOST of the load off of the RSX all the while running core physics and AI.

It is truly a beast and in the next few years we are really going to start seeing what developers can do with the cell.

GIJeff3438d ago

the 360's gpu is closest to the ati x1600 while the ps3's RSX is a near spitting image of a g71(7800). Look at any bench between the two, you will see the 7800 stomp the 1600. At the resolution of a tv, the 7800 actually performs quite well. Although you are right about one thing, the cell is great at assisting the rsx to make scenes that are impossible without the combo. They knew what they were doing when they made it, the rest of the industry just hasnt figured it out yet. (see ps2 vs. dreamcast)

solidt123438d ago

You are absolutly correct. Yes the GPU on the 360 by itself may be more powerful, But with the PS3's Cell processor developers can move alot I mean alot of small task over to the cell processor given the GPU more space to process major task which gives developers more possibility. The PS3 is a really exciting console because we will be able to see games take more and more use of the Cell with every title release. Example of cell use time line Resistance > Ratchet and Clank Future, Uncharted, and next is Resistance, and KILLZONE 2. If you look at these games you can see how they just get better and better as they use more and more of the Cell. Some say Uncharted is the best looking console game yet and it only uses about 25% of the Cell processor. The PS3 has a long way to go before it reaches it's full processing potential.

Ju3438d ago

Procedural can have the same impact as vectors had to pixels. Instead of storing all binary data (pixels) you could describe them thru vectors (simply speaking).
Same for textures. Instead of storing all texture pixels use a description instead. Requires a lot of pre-processing, which suits the SPUs very well, it seems. The result is still a "dynamic" texture handed over to the GPU. Great stuff. Not only it reduces data size - code is usually way smaller then data -, but also allows new form of interactive textures. The other side effect is, that mem is limited in the PS3, but procedural textures reduce mem consumption, implementing a high efficient "compressed texture" buffer.

JsonHenry3438d ago

The X360's video card is about 2.5x-3.5x faster than an X1600. You are referring to memory bandwidth. While limiting on the 360 it does have the advantage of being a unified architecture.

For the purpose of Ray Tracing though (not really a big part of current gen gaming, if any part at all)the slower memory clock does hold the 360 version back.

But if you want to talk shader/texture processing... the video card in the 360 is surperior to that of the PS3's.

Kleptic3438d ago

I would really love to see proof of the 360 GPU being superior at EVERYTHING than the RSX...

I have seen the RSX beat the 360's gpu in some tests, and vice versa...with testers concluding that they are very similar in overall performance (that was only gpu tests too...not the Cell+RSX tests that have been also done)...

not saying its not true...but I agree with what GIJeff said...the RSX is basically an overclocked 7800...and in PC tests that card was always nearly identical in everything to the ati card that the 360 gpu is based on...

but yeah, this article isn't anything new...this is the stuff that gay "4D" crap came from...while it will be very cool once it is finally put in games (and it would appear that as of now the PS3 is the only console with a prayer of running it)...I hardly makes a game 4D or w/e they are talking about...would like to see it happen though...

DrDreadlox3437d ago

This is very exciting news for me. Not just for the fact that it shows how the ps3 trumps all, but because of the impact this will have on gaming. I was just saying yesterday that if devs don't step it up games won't advance this gen, and then i hear this.
Games were sort of reaching a stalemate in terms of graphics and content mainly because the timeframe and budget just didn't allow for improvements. But more efficient programming as stated in the article means that devs can make higher quality games with more content in less time.

Last comment to those media idiots that were saying that wii was bringing revolution to gaming while the PS3 was simply an evolution. Ha, this is revolutionary stuff for the whole gaming world, although some might have to wait for their future console to benefit from them.

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pacman6153438d ago

and who said that the cell isn't meant for gaming ? sony's first party developers are making leaps and bounds for this generation already, damn glad to be happily married to my ps3

neogeo3438d ago

the Mart says the cell is not good for gaming. look st his past comments he said it at least 5 times. Mart= the dumbness human on planet earth.

solidt123438d ago

Really. If anyone thinks that then they don't keep up with technology. All future processors are heading in the same direction as the Cell. The next Xbox may very well use a similar architecture.

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The_Engineer3438d ago

fail to understand is that the 360 was not designed to have the CPU and GPU work in tandem. IT IS A TRADITIONAL PC DESIGN. TO think that it can perform the same way the cell does explains VOLUMES about the delusions of the xbots that infest this site.

Zool 083438d ago

all those feeble 360 cpus can do is what process what the gpu puts out and thats it, they cant do ray tracing or texture mapping by themselves, the cell on the other hand can, without the rsx gpu because it has its own gpu as well as cpu.

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MaximusPrime3438d ago

1.2 seconds by PS3 compared to 10 seconds by Xbox 360. i'm not surprised. I knew that ages ago.

We have been trying to tell you that PS3 is more powerful than xbox 360. What the matter with these guys? Oh, their walnut-sized brain rely on xbox (power)

mikeslemonade3438d ago

They're all short sighted and blind xbox fans. It's like they bashed the PS3 soley because it use to be $600 and it's hard to develop for. Guess what it's called an investment and $400 and $500 is a pretty good one for good games for the next 7 years.

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TheExecutive3438d ago (Edited 3438d ago )

Where are the Uncharted's, KZ's, GT's, and FF of the 360 then? Where are they?

mephixto3438d ago

@wageslave

Last 2 lines:

"So, that's Microsoft's analysis. What do you make of it? Tell us what you think on the boards."

Could you read the articles again, but this time ALL of it please.

GIJeff3438d ago

does IGN know anything about hardware? its been proven by basically every hardware site that the ps3 is much faster.

heyheyhey3438d ago

well do you expect

wageslave survives off that IGN post and the NEOGAF post about the 360's games (which lies because it says that haze is on the 360 too)

if he wants to live in denial then let him- learn to take pity on people who are so pathetic that they will copy and paste the same two articles hundreds of times

zambrota3438d ago

The link you posted contained figs GIVEN to IGN by MS themselves did you even read the article

"So, that's Microsoft's analysis. What do you make of it? Tell us what you think on the boards."

"With Sony's specs out, Microsoft has sent us its a comparitive analysis. What's the outcome?"

People mark wageslave's comment as SPAM

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