Go Nintendo writes: Coming from former RARE composer, Grant Kirkhope...
"I think Rare have completely f#@$ed themselves. And - it isn't their fault; it's Microsoft's fault. They have completely ruined that company, and it makes me cry every day of my life."
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CONFIRMED
The talent was/is still there.
They made it a racer instead of the platformer that is hinted by things like level design of certain areas. Why? Because Microsoft can't push XBL with a SP platforming game. But with cars, they can have races!
It's Microsoft's responsibility and onus to restore RARE, if in fact it's true about RARE being less than it was....
Unfortunately as we know, Microsoft is creatively bankrupt, and like the old saying goes.....
"THE BLIND CAN'T LEAD THE BLIND"
Edit in.....Maybe we should change that old saying to
"THE BLIND CAN'T LEAD THE RARE"
:P
I think too many gamers are so used to the old school style of games. Not just Rare but Square Enix as well. As a company you have to expand and try out new things. Problem with this gen is that it costs a lot of money and to experiment is risky unless you have MS pocketbook and even then they don't like to take risks. The gamers 15 to 20 years ago are all grown up so there are a new generation of gamers now. Now it is all about graphics which is a shame.
While their quantity of quality releases slowed down substantially, they were still putting out good games up to the point they were purchased by Microsoft.
Microsoft purchased Rare in late 2002. Rare released Star Fox Adventures that same year on GCN; the year before that, Conkur's Bad Fur Day; the year before that, Perfect Dark.
MS bought a shell of the company
Regardless, they were still putting out good games before MS bought them out. If I have my facts straight, Star Fox Adventures was released the same month MS bought the company.
God, I wish that game got a sequel.
Really dude? "morally sound support?" Get real. Great games that don't sell=people with families that don't have jobs. Microsoft provided them with an avenue to keep making money to feed themeselves, that's morally correct.
What a pretentious, unrealistic and stupid thing to say. The world is more than a f-ing videogame.
@parralax-You sure are a drama queen, whatever. MS paid a boat load of money to buy them; what did Sony-you know, the god company-offer? What did Nintendo offer? It's "morally" good to let them fade away but offering them jobs is a bad thing? Besides, they still do great stuff it's just different and nothing is stopping those people from going elsewhere and making games.
Okay, I'll go drown myself.
Donkey Kong Country sales = over 9 million
golden eye 007 over 8 million copy
and I could continue like that forever with their old titles. Rare was a freaking powerhouse!
they released so much games in a short amount of time (
Plus I cant find the inrerview with one of Rare's lead developer but he said that they actually love what they do making Kinect games and doing stuff for XBL avatars, just because they are not making AAA games that does not mean they are not happy, in fact AAA games mean more stress and less time with your family - go watch the making of Gears of War 1.
Also Rare has a pretty sweet building it almost reminds me of the Google building where its like a playground for big kids.
Microsoft made them profitable in the end but that means nothing to us gamers unless of course this means there is hope of resurgence for RARE in the future with quality titles and not Kinect crap. Sad times.
Contrary to what most people believe (as most aren't business savvy), profit to investors and benefit to the general public goes hand in hand. To put it short, there is a reason why the US produces most of the advancements in technology and research. It's because the US is the most capitalistic country in the world!!!
Rare is definitely no longer what it was, and the talent has long left. Right now it is a different company with the same name. Get over it, and move on. Studios (or companies) die and new ones are born all the time.
Oh, I also like Kinect and some of the stuff Rare has done with Kinect Sports is nothing sort of amazing. No reason to hate if you don't like what others do.
Microsoft hit the final nail in the coffin for Rare and whilst you might like Kinect, surely even you can see what a tremendous loss gamers have suffered when considering the sheer quality of the games Rare was churning out in the good ol days.
Great games that sell badly are still great games. The likes of Beyond Good and Evil etc are still gems regardless of the poor sales.
You seem to have a very clinical view of things; sales figures and investment strategies seem to trump gameplay experiences in your opinion. I don't work for Microsoft and I'm primarily a gamer and its the games I play not the money the companies make I'm concerned with.
Each to their own though.
"Microsoft hit the final nail in the coffin for Rare and whilst you might like Kinect, surely even you can see what a tremendous loss gamers have suffered when considering the sheer quality of the games Rare was churning out in the good ol days."
MS doesn't have a great track record of taking over companies, but Rare did make the unsuccesful Conker before MS, then critically well accepted then Banjo-Kazooie, Kameo and Viva Pinata. Which are all relatively casual oriented games, then they went with Kinect Sports which fits in the same vein.
The good ol days is just that! Gamers weren't as picky then, and it was more about the technology than the games. Today it is the total opposite, it is all about the content and mechanics than the technology.
It certainly isn't a tremendous loss to gamers, as that talent went somewhere else and maybe even started other companies.
"Great games that sell badly are still great games."
So? Very few people enjoyed it! It isn't for the greater benefit of the majority. I believe in making unique games, even games in unknown or rare genres that typically don't sell, but it has to be in the hope of selling a lot. I don't believe in games are art philosophy that some developers want to create.
"You seem to have a very clinical view of things; sales figures and investment strategies seem to trump gameplay experiences in your opinion."
No, not at all! I say sales figures, investment strategies and experience is all important. You shouldn't weight one far more than another and it's more of a balancing act.
"I don't work for Microsoft and I'm primarily a gamer and its the games I play not the money the companies make I'm concerned with."
I don't work for MS either, and am a gamer. However, I am bothered by people (and society) that only want to take, without the consideration for give.
Look at Kameo and Viva Pinata and tell me that RARE didn't still have talent.
Wasn't it not a weeks ago someone from zipper also placing the blame game also as to why socom was so Much of a failurebecause upper management wanted to make it more like CoD. Even though he also said it was also zipper fault also. How many he still blame zipper for shutting down.
Now I could easily say many of you don't want Sony's name soiled also. But at the end of the day if your not making a profit on your project you will be shut down. There is a reason why rare is still making MS money and there not close their door while other are.
That's because Microsoft packed Rare full of goons that will follow orders and to keep the number of game companies that they own at the level they are. Anyone who says that Rare isn't a shadow of what they were never knew Rare.
If you have readed that report you must have noticed that even through he clains that Sony was the one first asking for a more COD-like SOCOM, they were open to a "no, can't do it", they never had put much pressure, but the guys leading the whole project were more worried about pleasing Sony just saying "yes sir", than to either actually accomplish a COD-like experience or a good SOCOM game.
In fact, that guy made it pretty clear the problem wasn't just Zipper capabilities or Sony demands, but having the wrong guys at the leading positions, the whole development was a mess, bad integration of developing teams, the project heads wouldn't listen to either their co-workers or the fan base, no one was really sure which direction they were taking... There was little feedback to or from Sony.
From the letter the impression I got is that Sony gives it's devs a lot of freedom once they state what they expect... But as they say in my country, some people will give you just so much rope you may end up hanging yourself, so watch out. Zipper had put too much focus on MAG while SOCOM got burnt by Slant Six, when they got back to SOCOM 4 they underdelivered, then Unit 13 failed to impress, none of 'em sold well, no wonder Sony, that was not in it's best moment financially, had to cut costs and Zipper was first in the line.
I would stay Nintendo but in this day and age with how casual Nintendo hasn gotten I wouldn't of liked to see Rares games dumbed down or added stupid motion control support. We probably wouldn't see Conker 2 on the Wii I can tell you that
R.I.P RARE
http://youtu.be/dbBlVEyizIc
This summerizes the problem. RARE followed the $_$ and we saw what happened.
And making more Kinect games doesn't help.
MS does not care about games..i dont care what anyone says. They care about the games that make them money..thats it.
I think that it was a transitionary time and the time was right for Nintendo and Rare to do their own thing. I can't see 'Grabbed by the ghoulies' on the Cube- the Cube was a brief moment of relative sophistication for Nintendo and it would have seemed too close to Luigi's Mansion anwyay. Nintendo got by on Metroid Prime and Resident Evil for a while and they cut their costs. Nintendo are treading shallower creative waters now but the days of having loads of multi million selling Rare epics still had its ceiling for them in terms of console sales.
Donkey Kong Country
Perfect Dark
Conker's Bad Fur Day
Jet Force Gemini
GoldenEye 007
Killer Instinct
Banjo-Kazooie
Battletoads
And contrary to VanillaBear's opinion, a lot Rare's games would have fit in perfectly with the Wii. Even Conker.
Just a massive shame for the industry as a whole. They're doing great financially though with their kinect crap but how long can they keep that up is my question.
Banjo Kazooie was such a masterpiece for it's time.
The music has stayed with me, the composers were really amazing..
It is extremely well done.
Related image(s)
Creatively - they are ruined, though.
Battletoads
Donkey Kong Country 1-3
Killer Instinct
GoldenEye 007
Diddy Kong Racing
Banjo-Kazooie
Perfect Dark
Conker's Bad Fur Day
The Dark Ages:
Star Fox Adventures
Grabbed by the Ghoulies
Kameo: Elements of Power
Perfect Dark Zero
Banjo-Kazooie: Nuts & Bolts
Except for the first and last games listed (1st list), never heard of those.
Also, Blast Corp
Make it happen, Rare.
Not sure how I forgot Donkey Kong 64.
Pretty sure that was the first N64 game to ever require the Expansion Pak, which is significant.
Got donkey kong 64 just for that expansion pack.
I swear that I had Turok 2 before all that though.. maybe my memory is messing up.
Right, Turok 2 was the first to utilize it, but Donkey Kong 64 was the first to actually require it.
Was included with the game for that reason.
The games were outstanding and so was Kameo.
Personally i think the market for games that are unique and different is to wishy washy for a studio to invest major money in to unproven projects. Especially when you are an exclusive studio and cant even rely on the padding of sales from other consoles.
I think if they are still around next gen they will give a few more tries. They are actually some of the better companies when it come to programming for kinect. Thats something you can build on especially since MS has almost confirmed some form of kinect will be standard with their next system.
And maybe it's just me, but the world of Nuts and Bolts was so gorgeous and expansive that I can't help but wonder if the game DID start off as a platformer/adventure game like previous BK games. It was bizarre to drive vehicles through such large and empty worlds. It just felt like it wasn't the game that Rare originally wanted to make.
The plat forming elements are still there. That game ha so much stuff going on its amazing, you have all the different tasks challenges vehicles and parts to collect worlds to discover. An old school gaming arcade, jinjo bingo challenges and the physics and vehicles creation is awesome, you can spend hours making super vehicles. Its a whole lot more involved than I think ppl were ready to give it. They just wanted another plat former and Rare gave them something so much more.
Anyway: MS saved Rare and made them profitable. Conker on N64 flopped, Nintendo did not want to buy them (they might have had their reasons) and MS needed more first party studios, which was the best thing that could have happened to them.
Kinect Sports is enjoyed by MILLIONS, but these type of players don't spend their time on N4G or internet forums. And no, that does not make them inferior gamers.
Go seek help, you are starting to get a complex.
Star Fox Adventures - I think that it should have just been left as Dinosaur Planet (it was said to be Nintendo's decision to change the name). Not everyone likes the character Star Fox that much anyway because we don't all like games set in space.
Donkey Kong Racing - it remains a big shame for the Gamecube line up that this game was not made. It looks perfect for that console alone in a way that their other works in progress for the Cube, Perfect Dark Zero and Kameo, didn't as much. The Cube, whilst technically better than the PS2, could be a bit 'samey' in its visuals because its small discs didn't have the memory of the PS2 or the Xbox. For this reason it is probably better that PDZ and Kameo were saved for the Xbox360's launch games where they had extra graphical polish. This is especially important for PDZ because the visuals improve the rather linear arcade-type experience.
At the end of the day, Rare were meant to leave Nintendo at that point but it IS a slap in the face for fans that Donkey Kong Racing wasn't completed by Rare first. They'd stated a lot of what they had to say already on the N64. The Gamecube philosphy was more about concentrating on third parties like the Capcom relationship. The Gamecube ended up being less like the N64 and more like the Dreamcast that had some short, sharp, games that were very easy and some games that were extremely hard. The N64 was good but who wanted to spend even more of their life on 20+ hour epics? They're there for posterity but there's also a world outside. The middle ground that used to be occupied by Rare was best left to Sony and Microsoft at that stage. Nintendo - and even possibly Rare- won't have regretted anything - Retro got them by and then the Wii wouldn't have satisfied Rare's ability to graphically push consoles.
But with Rare's heritage, they should have made Kinect Adventures. Instead they made Kinect Sports. Rare could be making games like Sega used to make. They don't have to be huge epics like Nuts and bolts. Just something short and quirky. Heck, Grabbed by the ghoulies 2 would do.
Rare exists as an great example of why I was very uneasy about Microsoft entering the gaming fray in the first place. When I look at Sony, Nintendo and Sega (formerly) as console developers, I see a giant corporation that needs to profit, but also has gaming coursing through its veins. From their top exec to the dude in their mail room. When I look at Microsoft, I don't see that. I just see a giant corporation looking for new, fertile soil to exploit for profit.
Rare might excel next generation now that Microsoft has managed to expand its userbase. I would imagine Killer Instinct with Kinect 2.0 on the next XBOX would do rather well commercially. It's sad to see as of late all Rare has done is try and sell Kinect and creating the new dashboard look and personalize avatars.
Just because Microsoft is newer to the video game market doesn't mean they are any less deserving or any less into games. All three companies are in the business of making money, don't kid yourself otherwise.
Obviously Microsoft has done something right, they have really done well for themselves this generation, and that comes off of what was a really rocky and potentially brand ending start.
Now Red Ring is a distant memory and people just enjoy gaming on their Xbox 360's.
Rare has put out 5 or 6 platinum titles, but because they have done two highly successful Kinect titles, they must have had them forced down their throats right?
It couldn't be that Microsoft looks to Rare to make quality games for Kinect. I mean will all the money Microsoft has invested in Kinect and Rare, I'd have such a quality developer working to show off what it could do as well.
I think selling 7-8 million in Kinect Sports games has been a great thing, those are my personal favorites on the device.
We shall see. Just remember this post.
That was a good one.
I get the love for Rare when they worked with Nintendo, but its clear that they had their fair share of games that flopped. Conker wasn't successful, Grabbed By The Ghoolies was a huge flop as well.
I've had more fun with Rare games on the Xbox 360 than at any other point, sure I played the hell out of Donkey Kong, but I liked the new Retro Studios Donkey Kong just as much, if not more so.
Rare is rumored to be working on two new games for the next Xbox, they were only partial contributes on Kinect Sports 2. So they have obviously been up to something these past couple of years. Hopefully a new IP and maybe a Perfect Dark reboot.
N4G loved it when stuff like this is said, but would ignore it if someone from say Zipper bad mouthed Sony.
Rare has put out 5 or 6 games this generation that have went platinum. That isn't too shabby, rumors of Rare's death have obviously been greatly exaggerated. Leave it to N4G.
any how this isnt about sony its about rare. rare has been with us since snes and thats why its a blow. it would be the same thing if naughty dog crashed because of sony.
MS isn't concentrating on real games this half of the gen, just kinect and the money it brings with the low quality it pushes. MS doesnt support their companies much either unless its halo or gears sadly
Socom 2 was a game I spent countless hours on, it was one of my first true online enabled gaming experiences, so you give Zipper far too little credit.
They fell apart when they were purchased by Sony, and I was just using that as an example. Rare has done a ton of quality games this generation, some of my favorites in fact. I actually expected a troll comment from you, Strongman, Megaton or a half dozen other Sony fanboys that spout the usual trash and seem to live for negative Microsoft articles.....I feel sorry for the "gamers" like you.
Since you mentioned me I'll bite. You are a well known Xbox fanboy. If you have so much of a problem with N4G not liking MS then why do you come here?
I also notice Xbox fanboys have lowered the sales standard to only 1 million or "platinum selling" status now. Almost all PS3 exclusive are "platinum sellers" but all I hear from you guys is that PS3 exclusives don't sell. Why the change of heart? You realize that most Xbox exclusives don't hit "platinum" status. 99% of Kinect games don't sell past 300k and that's just unacceptable.
You don't even believe most of your lies. Here is when you put your guard down when MS took away Inside Xbox:
Frederick Quatman • 2 months ago
This is stupid, I've been a huge Microsoft and Xbox supporter since the original Xbox. I gladly pay out to play online, watch Netflix, Hulu Plus and a lot of other services that are standard and free on other devices. Microsoft has ceased production on any first party exclusives that aren't sure things, and while I do enjoy Kinect, where is the Perfect Darks, Banjo Kazooie's, Blinx, Killer Instinct and other games that aren't Halo, Forza, Fable and Gears ?
I don't really enjoy PS3, and anyone that knows me knows I love Xbox and Microsoft, but you keep taking away games and features that make the subscription worth it. You do things that honestly baffle me, the $99 Xbox 360/Kinect is only a decent deal if you didn't have a subscription, why not just lower the price of the console and Kinect? The last couple of years I'm questioning you guys. I am disappointed to say the least, and this is coming from someone who owns close to 200 Xbox 360 games and that doesn't include the arcade titles I've purchased.
We get ads on a paid service, arcade titles are great, but where are the full games?
R.I.P Inside Xbox, I used to look forward to your content every week.
http://majornelson.com/2012...
Let me guess... you used to work at Rare too? I am only asking because I have this hunch that... oh I dunno... that you've never been within 500 feet from Grant Kirkhope.
FYI:
You don't have to lie to participate in this discussion. If you did really enjoy RARE's 360 games more than the likes of Donkey Kong (Country and 64), GoldenEye, Perfect Dark (original), and Banjo-Kazooie then you might as well log off, because you don't know a thing about Rare.
I completed Banjo back in the day and it was stunning in the sense it looked gorgeous and it's incredible to think how much effort was thrown into it- it's technically fantastic like all rare games were. Rare's natural flair for amazing design as well stood them above most devs. The thing is though Banjo is only a solid game. I enjoyed it but in no way was it ever an extraordinary game for it's time other than technically in the same way Ratchet or Jak are
In other words a few of Rare's games were absolutely bloody amazing games but really it was only a few of them. The rest were merely well executed
My personal fave has always been Jet Force Gemini and i truly adore the game, but it's certainly not one of the best games Rare did
Goldeneye, Perfect Dark are exceptional though i think most agree but that leaves personal faves only which in truth we like for our own reasons. People really should stop kidding themselves that everything they did was astonishing
Certainly wouldn't ever turn my nose up at xbla versions of Jet Force, Blast Corps(awesome) and Killer Instinct
Either way, I think Nintendo should just buy them back. They at least know how to leverage cutesy game franchises.
It's E3 2012, and instead of Usher, Microsoft ends with an HD traditional Banjo-Kazooie game. Remember, for the sake of our argument this game was never released on N64! This would...
- be a new ip for Microsoft.
- attract 360 gamers who aren't into Halo and Forza.
- possibly attract all of those N64 gamers that purchased the original game, but never bought a 360. Imo just because the game never happened on N64 (for the sake of our argument), doesn't mean that that audience isn't available. They just weren't discovered.
My bottom line is that great games are always interesting, and of course an HD Banjo-Kazooie would perform well.
it would be nice to think these franchises could exist this or next gen but even the likes of Jak and Dax appears to have been ignored this time for fear they just wouldn't perform enough to make it that worthwhile. i'm guessing the sales for Ratchet are not great either
Rare should of stayed with Nintendo and refused the M$ buy out.
M$ should of supported their devs more and give them more room to be creative.