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It’s ok to leave out the gay (an open letter)

HEAVEmedia pleads with game developers to nix the idea of adding gay characters to games and argues the gaming community has not reached the level of maturity to adequately deal with themes outside of their collective comfort zone.

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CustardTrout1441d ago

People should learn that there's no issue with it from an early age really.
This is an interesting read because you're not saying that it's wrong, you're saying people are too stupid.

The Mass Effect 3 Google thing is a bit irrelevant, when Star Trek first came out there was a lot of controversy over A: Women being on the ship and B: Multiple cultures on the ship, it's something we should welcome really.

I think developers should stand their ground, if a small portion of gamers don't like it then they can take on the nearest beholder with a bum plug.

popculturedude1441d ago

I really think the biggest problem is with that small portion of the gaming community also being the most vocal. They are the ones you hear because they scream the loudest. It's become a playground mentality (or, you know, political mentality).

cnshards1441d ago

We can't wait for the gaming community to "mature" enough to allow equal representation because without pressure, it's not going to change. We have always had to MAKE social change happen. It doesn't just happen on its own.

Tired1441d ago

Hang on, so future titles who may have planned to include a gay character shouldn't.... JUST in case a young homosexual sees a comment written about it by a homophobe and takes that comment to heart?

WOW, I'd never thought about it before but your COMPLETELY right. I've never heard a bad word about 'the gays' in real life...so the tiny homo is bound to feel safe and nurtured now that s/he won't come into contact with meanies.

Next let's remove the Black characters because I've read on the interweb people say all kinds of nasty things about them.

And women, then we should cut out the women.

That will leave just muscular men on our screens who will flex their burly muscles at each other after shooting/wrestling/strangling other burly men.

Oh....seems a bit gay really.

popculturedude1441d ago

Hawkboi, the gaming community is not society. We have a choice to be part of the community or not to be. We can agree that people say incredibly mean and small-minded things in real life AND in the gaming community. Unfortunately, the community is run by those people and they are not about to have their minds changed.

Tired1441d ago

That's BULL. I've never heard such rubbish. Explain to me how I am not society. How is the gaming community is not society. How is a group made up of different ages, colours, religions, nationalities, sexes and socio-economic backgrounds not be society? It's probably the best cross-section you could get.

'We choose to be part...or not.' WHAT? What is the point your making? Gamers choose to live outside of society? Do we now have to ignore laws and not pay taxes? or I choose to be part of the gaming community so therefore the gaming community is not homophobic. I just don't know what you mean to say sorry.

'are not about to have their minds changed' OH REALLY? Well not by YOU obviously, If your the author of this piece you should probably lay on the floor and just invite bigots to jump on it.

Changing peoples minds is as easy as meeting them and engaging them on an emotional level. I've been doing it my whole life.

I will agree that as a gay man, seeing any of these pixelated pillocks prance about my screen makes me cringe....I hate it, I hate them, I hate the way it's written and I hate the way it's implemented. BUT IT'S NECESSARY on the way to change. As we battle for basic acceptance and in many places basic human rights or even the right to keep on living, having a presence in the gaming sphere at all is a massive accomplishment. It will take decades of rubbish gay characters before we get one we can be proud of. TOUGH! DEAL WITH IT! Just like black/gay people in films were all stereotypes, it will take time.

You call yourself popculturedude...HOW DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND HOW POPULAR CULTURE WORKS? The sheer number of things the media and the like have drip fed us over the years until it became acceptable is unfathomable. How can you claim it'll never work? Not in our generation no...but the seeds have been set. How old are you? From your pic you look old enough to be capable of cognitive reasoning.

'Best not try'?
That statement alone made me feel FU*KING sick.
Those stonewall rioters...should've told them not to bother right?
All those campaigners people who were tortured/killed/ridiculed. Just so you wont be put in prison anymore for having sex.
Tell them thanks for all that but you know? best not to try.

You should be ashamed of yourself and your article.
And I hope, no impressionable young homo, ever takes YOUR advice.

popculturedude1440d ago

Thank you for the personal attack and proving my point that the gaming community is not at a point where we can engage in a mature, objective discourse on this subject. That is the point I attempted (failed?) to get across in the article. I would love to live in a world where being gay is a complete non-issue, but I don't and the gaming community in particular is one place where being gay is downright vilified. As I said in the article, this is about picking our battles. I would rather see women given a modicum of respect in the gaming community and focus my efforts on larger issues in the gay community. Gay game characters fall so low on that list.

aliengmr1440d ago

Gay characters in games may be a low priority but they should still exist. IMO the acceptance of the gay community is different than that of women or even other races. Not that one is more important that the other, but require different approaches. I would like to elaborate but I can't find the exact words at the moment and don't want to be misunderstood.

Suffice to say that I believe the gay community is unique (NOT more or less important, so we are clear) in how it will eventually become accepted. Gay characters games are important in that regard. It shouldn't be forced, but not shied away from regardless of it importance compared to other groups.

I don't agree that it should be set aside just to focus on other groups or because the gaming community is too immature. Its just going to take time.

Dark_king1440d ago

I really don't see how it hurts anyone having gay characters in games.Games are a medium that should cover all cultures.If it offends you don't buy it.If someone says something about it that upsets you,ignore it.

The world is full of idiots letting them upset you over something like your sexual preference shows you haven't come to accept it yourself.I don't see one reason in this article to remove or not include gay characters.

Think what you want,say what you want and believe what you want.I will do the same.

Now saying gamer's are not mature enough to discuss this shows your general lack of knowledge about the gaming community.Were not all children in fact more of the gaming community are adults capable of rational discussion then children.An you just flat out said they are not capable of discussing this subject.I find that more offensive then a few people shooting there mouths off bashing gays.

Tired1440d ago

Wow. If you thought that was a personal attack you must be one of the kids that needs to be sheltered from the internet like you said.

I attacked your article and your stance on most things, but at no point did I 'attack' you as a person. I have attacked your opinion because there is no sound logic or attempted reasoning behind it.

You claim you want objective discourse...yet you fail to remain objective citing that I attacked you. So your also unable to take the high road. At no point have you attempted to make a rebuttal to ANY of the points I raised or to clarify the points that you made previously. Which can only lead me to assume that A) Only YOU are incapable of finding flaw with my reasoning. or B) That I'm right.

Out of your article and TWO responses you've yet clarify what you meant by gamers being out of society. What you've stated repeatedly is nonsensical. The premise itself makes no sense. I'm thinking your not entirely sure of the difference between (or the roles of) society and community, and how they interplay.

Your opinions seem not to be based in fact...which is a little strange. You failed to make a counter argument to the FACT that TV and games can have a drastic impact on how people perceive characters yet to encountered in 'real life'. Soap operas have been doing it for decades. It's subversive social education for the stupid classes.

The Greeks invented Drama as a means of education, it was compulsory for each and every citizen to watch. Much of what they showed were social conundrums at the time, which forced the watcher to ask questions and make his/her own mind up. Much in the way the inclusion of these gay characters have done.

We have over 2260 years to back up the case I made. The FACT of it is taught in universities across the globe. What is it your basing YOUR argument for never changing peoples minds on? Because you've yet to justify your sweeping generalisation.

'I would rather see women given a modicum of respect in the gaming community'

You can do what you like. Go fight for womens lib. But then why post an article ASKING for other people not to champion a cause that affects you. Live and let live, but you told them to stop. That's why I feel the need to point out the stupidity of your statements.

Womens/Black rights have been fought over for the last hundred years and more and have only made significant leaps in the last few decades. The gay rights movement is pretty much in it's infancy. There has only been a gaming community for 20 or so years. These things take time and perseverance and sometimes repeated FAILURE before they start to work. To tell people not to bother is ludicrous.

HOW NAIVE ARE YOU?

Your total lack of history knowledge is startling. Your inability to comprehend how social change EVER came about in the first place is astounding. Your assumption that these things 'just are' and we should leave them like that is sodding moronic.

'I would rather... focus my efforts on larger issues in the gay community.'
Really? I'm dying to find out YOUR plans for improving life for the gays. how are YOU going to fight for my rights? Given from what I've seen of you so far....'best not to try'
Maybe leave it to people who know what they are doing.

popculturedude1440d ago

....sigh.... I really thought this was a modest proposal.

Also, this would be a personal attack: Your total lack of history knowledge is startling. Your inability to comprehend how social change EVER came about in the first place is astounding. Your assumption that these things 'just are' and we should leave them like that is sodding moronic

And yeah, the fact that one of my best friends killed himself after being harassed online has me thinking some people need protection. I guess you would probably just be glad he's dead since he wasn't "fighting for your rights" but rather just trying to live in a world that hates him. Thanks, man. You really showed me how much the gay community cares about those who just want to survive.

H4WKBOI1440d ago

Ok personal attacks aside...why have you still not replied to ANY of the points I made? Because you can't?

All you've done is try to twist the argument.

I have yet to see you make a solitary statement that backs up ANY of your argument. Point out I'm being mean to you as much as you like...but why can't you dispute anything I've said in regards to your statements?

Why do you keep putting your fingers in your ears and saying lala can't hear you! You know that just means I won. So come on, I'm waiting to hear what you have to say.

Your piece was NEVER about the need to protect the vulnerable. You barely mention it. You spend more time talking about women. So don't give me that. And quite frankly it's a completely different topic.

YOUR PIECE WAS ABOUT THE REMOVAL OF GAY CHARACTERS FROM VIDEO GAMES. I pointed out that your reasoning was flawed...you've yet to change my mind...I'm willing for you to wow me...but all you've done is say he attacked me!

Why don't you start from the beginning and put me straight....If you're capable.

'And yeah, the fact that one of my best friends killed himself after being harassed online has me thinking some people need protection.'

How does not kissing a digital representation protect anyone online? If you were that worried about it you wouldn't be talking about gay rights or women being treated fairly on the web or gay men in games. You would be talking about the removal of anonymity from the web, better grievance reporting...or proper parental supervision.

'I guess you would probably just be glad he's dead since he wasn't "fighting for your rights" but rather just trying to live in a world that hates him.'
I don't really care who wants to fight for my rights or not. But I trust your sad, lonely friend who appeared to have no-one (including you) to turn to...didn't spend his spare time trying to convince people who didn't hate him that they shouldn't bother. in fact perhaps if they'd all done it a few years earlier the world might be nicer and your 'friend' might still be with us.

'Thanks, man. You really showed me how much the gay community cares about those who just want to survive.'
That statement is inflammatory and completely without basis. A last ditch attempt to twist a knife. Water off a ducks back.

I will happily concede if you beat me with reasoning. People do it to me all the time. You have failed on every level to do so. Kinda making your entire article invalid.

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