Could that woman be any more biased? "Palestinian children being able to defend themselves from the Israelis for the first time"
Seriously, ignoring the stones that are thrown every day to Israelis that patrol the borders for the sake of their citizens, WHAT the hell? How about those children, mothers, parents, babys that weren't able to defend themselves from the suicide bombing and missile launching? Not everyone can actually defend him or herself. It really goes both ways.
I know this could start a flame war, but now that we're at it... I hate how everyone forgets that Israel is suffering too, and that Palestinians aren't saints, why forget suicide bombings, missiles, and intentional children murder? There have been warcrimes on both sides, but I do recall hearing that the mission of a few fundamentalist muslims is to destroy Israel and its children; and while there are jewish extremists and terrorists too, they are in the minority, unlike Palestine which indoctrinates children every day with hate and desires of death. See the video.
I wonder how Peace will happen if such education keeps going on. I also wonder why were people not saying a damned thing about the palestinians when Jordan and Egypt anexed their territories; why weren't palestinians saying anything back then? Why does it have to be Israel's responsibility when nobody did anything back then? It doesn't really matter anymore, the point now is, of course, going forward and solving this problem. Hell, it doesn't really matter anymore how the birth of Israel happened, whether it was legitimate or not, or who started, because each side will say "They started it, we deserve better".
The only thing that matters now is for peace to be achieved (while still preparing for war on all sides), and for nobody to be displaced. Both jews and palestinians deserve to live freely and to have the same oportunities. It's simply a shame that the world keeps siding with the palestinians, not for their sake, but against the jews' sake. People should remember that it goes both ways.
Too many gaming news has distracted us from what happens in the real world, so I just wanted to say that.
Edit:
Actas, I'm well aware that there are two sides of the conflict, and that's why I am saying that it goes BOTH ways. I'm not completely ignorant of the conflict, nor the history of the region; I don't know everything but I'm fairly educated on that.
The birth of Israel wasn't 100% legitimate, but Israel wasn't the first attacker. In 1923, arabs of the region attacked jewish settlers. These arabs, which weren't really known as palestinians but simply as "arabs" as the whole region wasn't defined since it was part of the UK after all, could be seen as the ones that started it all. But then again you could say it was englands fault. Or germany's. Or the jews. That's not important anyway as today there are 4 million arabs and 7 million jews in the region (or something like that), and these problems should be solved without the need to displace anyone. It's just ridiculous to see people attacking Israel because it's the norm to blame jews as the usual scapegoat. I think I'm entitled to throw more than "two cents" here.
Anyway, even if I was completely ignorant of the conflict, I would be allowed to throw my 2 cents in there by simply excercising freedom of speech, and by stating that peace and happiness should be the ultimate end of both parties.
Edit 2:
"Your right, The Israeli extremists are a minority. They're getting the government to do most of the dirty work for them. Even if they don't openly admit what their goals are its pretty obvious from their actions. "
So, by your logic, Israelis should simply not do anything in response? The ratio of deaths since the conflict started in 2000 is 3:1, admittedly, but the difference is that most of the deads on the palestinian side are from self considered "activists" (a. k. a. Hamas or Hizballah), while the death toll on the israeli's side is mostly civilians.
As you can see in the video you intentionally ignored, Palestinian Children are instructed to get in the way of gunfire; their parents actually use children as shields, so don't be surprised when you see dead Palestinian children on the news. There are also dead Israeli children, but those were usually sleeping and stabbed to death, or exploded with a missile or a suicide bombing while going to a Dance Club or a Restaurant or a Shopping Mall because Palestinians think that's TRUE and VALID activism.
The difference between Israeli soldiers and Hamas/Hizballah "insurgents" is that Israeli's aim to defend their country and they don't aim to slaughter children, unlike Hamas/Hizballah which takes little or no consideration for civilian life. Of course Israel is gonna make incursions with tanks to bulldoze the responsible's house, that's the only way you can actually respond to someone whose already dead. If palestinian's want to kill themselves while at the same time taking another 20 innocent civilians with them, then at least they should be conscious that their family and friends will pay for their misdoings.
"And stone throwing vs tanks isn't exactly fair. "
OF course it's not fair. That's why Palestine gets aid from Iran, Syria, Lebanon, Europe and, to some extent, America. Hell, even Israel gives them guns, armor and ammo; And Nobel Price Aumann, whose leading work in Game Theory and is consulted for that reason for military strategy, actually validates academically the aid to palestinians.
I stand by my claims: Both sides are equally guilty. Sure, Israel is "strong" military speaking, but they don't have a choice, as they are surrounded by enemies. Israel has committed accidental war crimes, while Palestinians have committed intentional war crimes while irresponsibly killing themselves, effectively eliminating any possibility of judging those responsible. Both sides have got to stop, but if Israel does not respond to attacks, it would be an incentive for palestinians to continue, as that would only show signs of a demoralized Israel, which is what Israelis and their government don't want.
I'm sure that if Mexicans started to suicide bombing on Californian Soil, America would launch an Epic Scale war of attrition on Mexico, and everyone would approve and ignore Mexican's claims for rights and land, or whatever. It's cool to hate Israel today.
I don't think this is th place to discuss political issues, but this issue is so sensitive. I think it should be studied from both sides of view of the conflict before throwing in u'r 2 cents in there.
Well said!I Israel is hated not for it's actions, but because they are "Goliath" while Palestine is "David".
People so often forget (or just ignore) that it was the Arabs who have tried to "drive the Jews into the sea" on 5 different occasions. And yet Israel is the side accused of ethnic clensing... ignoring the fact that there are over a million muslim citizens who live in Israel while the Arab world is now 99% Jew-Free.
Yep, once upon time there were a million Jews in the Arab world until they were all kicked out.
I of course hope for a peacefull two-state solution. But as long as Hamas calls to wipe out Israel and "kill the Jews until Judgement-Day", there will never be peace. How do you negotiate with people who proudly call for your genocide?
@casualkiss Actually this is exactly what I am talking about.. People should learn about the conflict before they talk in a clueless way about what is goin on there and apparently u are one of those people.. and I would have said the same thing to a person who is taking the other side the way u are..
Your right, The Israeli extremists are a minority. They're getting the government to do most of the dirty work for them. Even if they don't openly admit what their goals are its pretty obvious from their actions. And stone throwing vs tanks isn't exactly fair.
actas123, you claim I don't know what I am talking about but do not bother to refute any of my points.
That's just plain lazy. If you believe I am not being factual, by all means, please correct me. But don't just claim that I do not understand the history of this conflict.
Read that and find something positive, you won't. This is just one sad story among many. Amazing how israel can get away with this, hell they even built nuclear weapons in secret and nobody did a damn thing. If any other nation tried this bullsh*t there would be hell to pay.
FYI: Being critical/opposed to israel doesn't make you an anti-semite. Although many douchebags use that against people.
Sure Ignoring the possibility that your username could be linked to "Panzerfaust Records" which is a NeoNazi music label, assuming that you simply like German Warfare or a game with that name... Would you care to elaborate? Because I'm sure that both Israel and Palestine agreed in accords to the territories they inhabit right now.
Edit:
"Read that and find something positive, you won't."
I find it possitive that Israel won't allow their nation to keep being BOMBED. After all, it's not like israeli citizens will want to jump the Wall, since they're too busy building their own nation instead of blaming the neighboring one for their problems. So now Israel has to ask permittion to defend themselves? Seriously, this is too funny...
"This is just one sad story among many."
There are many sad stories on BOTH sides of the conflict.
"Amazing how israel can get away with this,"
Uh, did you forget that USA is building a wall to prevent Mexican illegal immigrants from crossing the border? I don't see Europe react the same way they do when Israel actually does something to defend themselves. People actually expect Israel to do nothing when they're being suicide bombed, an act which is as coward as it gets, since it doesn't even allow for the individual to actually respond about his crimes; to kill yourself is the easiest way out to all your problems.
"hell they even built nuclear weapons in secret and nobody did a damn thing."
I don't see anyone doing a damned thing against USA, Russia, France, England, North Korea and Iran. Hell, you think those are the only countries with Nuclear Bombs? You think Israel is the only country in the middle east with Nuclear bombs? Don't be naïve. The best thing is for everyone to have nuclear bombs, including all arab nations. While that sounds very scary... it's actually a good way for a nation to have life insurance. If everyone's armed, then everyone's scared to death of everyone else, therefore no need to go to war since that would lead to nothingness. On the other hand, if everyone's dissarmed, there's still the possibility of someone or another secretly arming themselves. Which is why it should be official for everyone to arm themselves with nuclear bombs. In fact, USA suffers from the fact that not everyone has guns, which is the same problem that the world faces. Canada, Japan, Germany and France are one of the worlds best gun controlled nations which is why there are very few homicides, but there are still a few illegal weapons out there and there are still homicides. On the other hand, many in the states have guns, but not all, which is why there is such a huge criminality rate. If everyone had a gun, then morons would think twice before making a crime. In fact, that's why Israel, where EVERYONE has a gun, has such a low criminality rate, because everyone has a gun, knows well enough how to use it, which would make anyone think twice before making a dumb move, and again, it makes homicide rates almost non-existent. Which is why suicide bombing is more effective than terrorists with guns (and that's why Israel needs tighter measures of security).
"If any other nation tried this bullsh*t there would be hell to pay."
That's not true. As I said before, Iran, North Korea, China, Russia, France, USA, England and so on don't have to pay sh1t; Iran, Iraq and Turkey treat Kurds like crap, and I don't see the rest of the world screaming for a Kurdistan for the kurds (although there SHOULD be one). Austria is the country that, in the world, treats immigrants worse than any other country in the world, and they have had to pay nothing; only Israel's problems are overblown by the media. I bet that even Germany has a few Nuclear shells hidden.
It's true Israel conquered land during wars STARTED by Arabs to destroy Israel. And Israel have given back 95% of that land in exchange for peace deals. (Egypt, Jordan, ect..)
Unfortunately, they can't seem to give Gaza away. Not in the Camp David negotiations, and not during disengagement.
You people make me sick The fact that I or anyone actually trying to make an unbiased point or put some leverage against biased opinions, and not center the debate solely in favor of Israel or Palestine, makes you all look like a bunch of unreasonable jew haters. Seriously, "Israel, return what's not yours" only makes me think that you people are implying that Israel has no right to land.
Making such ludicrous claims as "Palestinian Woman Rape mini-game ? or just a torture Mini game maybe ?", which makes me wonder if you're actually rooting for someone (or against another) in this conflict. Your level of bias can only be part of the problem and also an explanation for why the world is so fvcked up as of late.
I guess we shouldn't root for peace for everyone and unbiased debate, for peace on both lands and for the safety and happiness of everyone. We have to undo everything that has been done, displace as many jews as possible until they have as little land as they possibly can have if they do have, and keep hating jews because jews are bad and the source of all of the worlds evils and imperfections. There has to be somebody to take the blame, because it's wrong to realize that we are all humans, that nobody is perfect and that more than one band can be guilty of this.
IMHO, it's time to learn and to be responsible instead of blaming scapegoats for your problems.
Edit:
That land doesn't belong to the jews because jews simply "claim" it to be theirs, or because of religion. Jews have lived there always for thousands of years. Jews were expelled by the Romans, but there was always jewish presence in those lands. There was never a palestinian identity or nation. It was, after Romans expelled the jews, always part of an Empire, be it the Brits, the Arabs, the Sarracens, the Turks... but even if it wasn't, there was really not a Palestinian identity.
The palestinian identity wasn't invented until Arabs saw jewish immigration as a "threat" to the "arabness" of the region. Arabs never really owned that land, and it showed: Being the british the owners, and before that many others, the land was never really worshiped or worked, it was simply maintained there as a medal of empires, since of course, it was home to the holy Jerusalem.
It wasn't until the nationalist movements in Europe where jews were starting to become excluded, especially seen in the 30s and 40s in Germany, which is why they, after centuries of persecussion and massive slaughter, they saught a home, a home which was always there and which they longed for for two milleniums. Herzl, with the help or Rothschild, actually bought the land from the British.
With what right were they buying those lands, you ask? Officially it wasn't illegal, but assuming it was of the arabs, where were the arabs? The arabs weren't really working the land, as the lands were swamps made inhabitable by the Jews with the use of swamp drying, water sucking trees once they started Immigrating. One of the few things recorded to be done by local arabs was to literally piss and litter on the Western Wall, all of which was cleaned once Jews started immigrating. In fact, it wasn't just the Jews who cleaned, the Arabs helped too, all due to the fact that a few Rich jews actually immigrated to the land, threw some of their golden coins inside the trash and spread the words to their arab neighbors, which is why they helped.
"In 1898, German Kaiser Wilhelm II also visited Palestine. He was appalled at the condition of the country. The Ottomans had stripped the forests for lumber and firewood. The Palestinian Arabs had let an old Roman aqueduct fall into ruin. The ultimate ecological curse was the ubiquitous herds of black goats. For nearly 2,000 years after the dispersion of the Jews, Arabs had allowed their goats to graze unfenced across Palestine. They had eaten the grass down to its roots, and the topsoil had eroded and blown away. The biblical land of milk and honey had become a dust bowl."
– Palestine: The Original Sin, Meir Abelson"
That's not to say that arabs weren't living there, because they were, but their cultural life as a sort of "palestinian identity" was almost non-existent because after all, a "Palestinian" nation never really existed.
Anyway, all of that was between 1880 and 1920. It wasn't until 1920 that arabs and jews were living peacefully, until arabs attacked a jewish village in 1923. Then the jews retaliated in 1929. Then again the arabs, and so on.... the conflict started. But again, it was all british land, partially bought by jews until an agreement could be reached.
The thing is, there weren't as many arabs in Israel/Palestine as there are today, and not as many jews either. It wasn't until after the second world war that there were very significant numbers on both sides, partly because arabs didn't want a jewish majority, and partly because once jews started to make Tel Aviv and other cities florish, commerce and other activities were growing at a fast rate, helping arabic economies.
After the WWII, the state of israel was founded. No side of the conflict was innocent, as both commited war crimes. In the end, Israel became a state, and arabs kept some land. In fact, after that, arabic countries started to hate and reject jews, and therefore there was an exchange of citizens between israel and the rest of the arabic countries. Jews from every arabic country arrived in Israel, whereas arabs from all israel went to the rest of the countries, an almost equal amounts.
However, back then, nobody was talking about a Palestinian nation, and "palestinians" never said anything to the rulers of their new home. Egypt and Jordan never made an effort to make two independent countries, Gaza and Cis-Jordan when they were owned by them.
It wasn't until arab countries all attacked Israel at once that Israel actually won the wars and regained more territory. Israel simply won the Sinai in order to reach peace accords with Egypt. The rest of the territories were never even thought to give Israel trouble, since neither Egypt nor Jordan actually wanted them, which is when the arabs inside those territories had no choice but to invent themselves a new identity, that of the "Palestinian" in the 70s. That's when Arafat started to become known.
Why did they start caring about their "country" once they were part of Israel? They were part of a better economy, yet they chose to make war on a country that would have actually granted them equal rights the way they do with Israeli Arabs, the Druze and the beduins. So, after some discussion, ISrael actually decided that it didn't really matter anymore if Palestinians had legitimate claims or not, what was important was to make peace.
It seemed that Arafat was never satisfied and wanted everything or nothing. Which is what has been happening and what Arafat inherited to his brethren, despite the fact that he was a billionaire with an account in Switzerland, and his family inherited everything, including a PentHouse in Paris while the rest of the Palestinians are angry and hungry.
Anyway, Jerusalem has never been as sacred to the muslims as it is to jews. Muslims pray looking towards Mecca (or Medina?), which is giving their backs to Jerusalem. Jerusalem was not very important to the arabs until the Middle-Eastern conflict.
However, none of this is really important now. Whether jews have a right to claim that land as theirs or not is not even important anymore, as there are 7 million jews there already. Same thing applies for the Palestitians. Whether they have an identity or not doesn't even matter anymore. They are about 4 million and growing, so displacing jews or palestinians would be a mess in every way, logistically, economically, socially and politically. The only important thing now is reaching a peace accord.
And if you want to debate whether Israel's existence is legitimate or not, you could question nearly every country's existence. America was founded by those that decimated the Indians. The Aztecs decimated the rest of the native americans in Mexico, and the Spaniards decimated the Aztecs. Romans decimated almost all of Europe. The greek conquered everything. Persia, babylon, mesopotamia. Hell, all europe should belong to the Basques! Great Britain should belong to the Scots or the irish, not the English!
It's not all like that though, you're not gonna undo everything that has happened. All nations were born from an original sin, and what's important is that there is peace now between "natives" and "immigrants", including America, Canada, almost all of latin america, some parts of Asia and Europe, and of course, Israel. In Israel, you could say that everyone is an immigrant, since after all, like in any place, everyone descends from immigrants, since humanity started about 2 million years ago in Africa.
Wow...just wow. "find it possitive that Israel won't allow their nation to keep being BOMBED."
-AGAIN...the the land is NOT israel's. It goes well beyond their recognized borders, its a land grab.
"Uh, did you forget that USA is building a wall to prevent Mexican illegal immigrants from crossing the border?"
-America is protecting its borders from ILLEGALS. Palestinians are CITIZENS, 2nd-class citizens the way they're treated.
"The best thing is for everyone to have nuclear bombs"
-RIGHT, cuz the idea of those countries just 1 button push away from nuclear war makes me feel so secure. Especially in a powder keg like the Middle East. Are you retarded?
USA is building a wall on its borders NOT inside Mexico's territory. When your building a wall inside another country to expand your own land thats bull.
Secondly Iran and north korea have both faced heavy sanctions when they're nuclear projects were revealed. Did anyone raise a voice against israel? Of course not who would wanna go against "God's chosen people."
You say Israelis aren't supposed to sit back while Palestinians bomb them then the palestinans are supposed to sit back when they're lands being taken under the pretense of the other side's security???
Does it matter that the land stolen from the Jews by Arabs is estimated to be FIVE times the size of Israel?
To Israel bashers, of course not. Steeling land from Jews is fine, but conquering land from Arabs in defensive wars is clearly not.
I am guessing by your "God's chosen people" remark, chances are you are not a fan of Jews. It's ok, most people aren't.
Every generation seems to believe they have the definitive reason to justify their hatred towards the Jews. Whether it was for killing Christ, the Plague, hurting Germany's economy, or preventing the Arab world from thriving... there is always a reason. 50 years later, these reasons are revealed as bull and the next new reason is invented.
It seems that the current generation believes that even though the Arab world is now 99% Jew-Free, "justice" requires getting rid of that last 1%
Except it was never jewish land in the first place. The jews migrated into what was called Canaan, killing every Canaanite living there. Then the Romans kicked them out after they revolted. Fast foward to after WW2 and they move in AGAIN, despite every Arab nation in the Middle East voting against the partition. There wasn't any opposition to jews until they came in hordes and drove out the Palestinians who'd been living there for over 1000 years.
"Every generation seems to believe they have the definitive reason to justify their hatred towards the Jews."
-What the f**k are you talking about? The jews have persecuted other peoples in the past as well as today. Stop regurgitating what you read on the jewish virtual library, its sad.
Panzerfaust bubbles 4 u. The palestinians are treated like cokroaches. Kahane advocated this and wiping all arabs off that land & yet while Israel condemns this man, his influence in the ISraeli army still today is undeniable. Many Israelis nowadays refer to arabs and palestinians as terrorists just to gain sympathy in the west. While reffering to an entire group of people who follow islam as terrorists is acceptable and allowed, it is downright atrocious to criticise Israel & is considered anti semitic. Double standards.
And Btw people should understand both sides of the story. Yes Hamas militant groups keep firing small rockets everyday, which has claimed the life of 13 people in 8 years but what happened a few days ago. Israel fired a missile which killed a hell of alot of women and children in 1 day, but when they apologise we just accept it and move on. THey've done this countless times in the past yet continue to do so now. Do you know the jews lived peacefully under muslim controlled Palestine before the birth of the zionist state. After 9/11 do you think the palesinians are given any shred of remorse.I can say sooo many other unbelievably wicked things Israel has done but watch this video if you want to know a lil bit.
I know a great amount about it, because I actually had to live through some of it over there
P.S. The jews never lived peacefully anywhere ever(especially in Muslim and Islamic populated countries), not even amongst themselves. Messiah based religions don't mix and never will. Jews are practically nomads because of persecution
I love how people here will fight to the bitter end Over issues, technology, and concepts which the majority of us here have little if any real understanding.
Let me put this into perspective.
I know people in Southern California that to this day believe that California is part of Mexico and is being illegally occupied by the US. If you look at the history California was land won in a war against Mexico, it was not purchased. Does that truly make it part of the US? If not, why not? If it is, then why isn't the West Bank, Gaza, and the Golan Heights part of Israel?
What do you think the US would do if missiles started hitting San Diego and San Antonio from Mexico on a daily basis from people calling for the return of California? What would you do? Sure they aren't a military threat to the nation as a whole, but would America stand by and let children and families be killed nearly every week, and property be damaged nearly every day by these little rockets?
Now think about all of this, do a hypocrisy check for a second, and realize these things may not be a simple as arguing which gaming console is the best one or which booth babe had the hottest thong at a convention.
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Bomb Palestinian Cities ? or Palestinian Woman Rape mini-game ? or just a torture Mini game maybe ?
I think you are thinking of Darfur, or Algeria Civil War, or Somalia, or countless other conflicts... but not Israel.
Israel is that tiny country that everybody loves to hate, but not the country that rapes and tortures innocent people.
Where the hell did your highschool buy its textbooks?
How about teaching children to bomb israeli cities? To kill israeli babies? To missile israeli restaurants?
It goes both ways, moron.
Edit:
Disagree? Who the fvck disagrees? At least back it up.
"Palestinian children being able to defend themselves from the Israelis for the first time"
Seriously, ignoring the stones that are thrown every day to Israelis that patrol the borders for the sake of their citizens, WHAT the hell? How about those children, mothers, parents, babys that weren't able to defend themselves from the suicide bombing and missile launching? Not everyone can actually defend him or herself. It really goes both ways.
I know this could start a flame war, but now that we're at it... I hate how everyone forgets that Israel is suffering too, and that Palestinians aren't saints, why forget suicide bombings, missiles, and intentional children murder? There have been warcrimes on both sides, but I do recall hearing that the mission of a few fundamentalist muslims is to destroy Israel and its children; and while there are jewish extremists and terrorists too, they are in the minority, unlike Palestine which indoctrinates children every day with hate and desires of death. See the video.
http://www.youtube.com/watc...
I wonder how Peace will happen if such education keeps going on. I also wonder why were people not saying a damned thing about the palestinians when Jordan and Egypt anexed their territories; why weren't palestinians saying anything back then? Why does it have to be Israel's responsibility when nobody did anything back then? It doesn't really matter anymore, the point now is, of course, going forward and solving this problem. Hell, it doesn't really matter anymore how the birth of Israel happened, whether it was legitimate or not, or who started, because each side will say "They started it, we deserve better".
The only thing that matters now is for peace to be achieved (while still preparing for war on all sides), and for nobody to be displaced. Both jews and palestinians deserve to live freely and to have the same oportunities. It's simply a shame that the world keeps siding with the palestinians, not for their sake, but against the jews' sake. People should remember that it goes both ways.
Too many gaming news has distracted us from what happens in the real world, so I just wanted to say that.
Edit:
Actas, I'm well aware that there are two sides of the conflict, and that's why I am saying that it goes BOTH ways. I'm not completely ignorant of the conflict, nor the history of the region; I don't know everything but I'm fairly educated on that.
The birth of Israel wasn't 100% legitimate, but Israel wasn't the first attacker. In 1923, arabs of the region attacked jewish settlers. These arabs, which weren't really known as palestinians but simply as "arabs" as the whole region wasn't defined since it was part of the UK after all, could be seen as the ones that started it all. But then again you could say it was englands fault. Or germany's. Or the jews. That's not important anyway as today there are 4 million arabs and 7 million jews in the region (or something like that), and these problems should be solved without the need to displace anyone. It's just ridiculous to see people attacking Israel because it's the norm to blame jews as the usual scapegoat. I think I'm entitled to throw more than "two cents" here.
Anyway, even if I was completely ignorant of the conflict, I would be allowed to throw my 2 cents in there by simply excercising freedom of speech, and by stating that peace and happiness should be the ultimate end of both parties.
Edit 2:
"Your right, The Israeli extremists are a minority. They're getting the government to do most of the dirty work for them. Even if they don't openly admit what their goals are its pretty obvious from their actions. "
So, by your logic, Israelis should simply not do anything in response? The ratio of deaths since the conflict started in 2000 is 3:1, admittedly, but the difference is that most of the deads on the palestinian side are from self considered "activists" (a. k. a. Hamas or Hizballah), while the death toll on the israeli's side is mostly civilians.
As you can see in the video you intentionally ignored, Palestinian Children are instructed to get in the way of gunfire; their parents actually use children as shields, so don't be surprised when you see dead Palestinian children on the news. There are also dead Israeli children, but those were usually sleeping and stabbed to death, or exploded with a missile or a suicide bombing while going to a Dance Club or a Restaurant or a Shopping Mall because Palestinians think that's TRUE and VALID activism.
The difference between Israeli soldiers and Hamas/Hizballah "insurgents" is that Israeli's aim to defend their country and they don't aim to slaughter children, unlike Hamas/Hizballah which takes little or no consideration for civilian life. Of course Israel is gonna make incursions with tanks to bulldoze the responsible's house, that's the only way you can actually respond to someone whose already dead. If palestinian's want to kill themselves while at the same time taking another 20 innocent civilians with them, then at least they should be conscious that their family and friends will pay for their misdoings.
"And stone throwing vs tanks isn't exactly fair. "
OF course it's not fair. That's why Palestine gets aid from Iran, Syria, Lebanon, Europe and, to some extent, America. Hell, even Israel gives them guns, armor and ammo; And Nobel Price Aumann, whose leading work in Game Theory and is consulted for that reason for military strategy, actually validates academically the aid to palestinians.
I stand by my claims: Both sides are equally guilty. Sure, Israel is "strong" military speaking, but they don't have a choice, as they are surrounded by enemies. Israel has committed accidental war crimes, while Palestinians have committed intentional war crimes while irresponsibly killing themselves, effectively eliminating any possibility of judging those responsible. Both sides have got to stop, but if Israel does not respond to attacks, it would be an incentive for palestinians to continue, as that would only show signs of a demoralized Israel, which is what Israelis and their government don't want.
I'm sure that if Mexicans started to suicide bombing on Californian Soil, America would launch an Epic Scale war of attrition on Mexico, and everyone would approve and ignore Mexican's claims for rights and land, or whatever. It's cool to hate Israel today.
Israel is hated not for it's actions, but because they are "Goliath" while Palestine is "David".
People so often forget (or just ignore) that it was the Arabs who have tried to "drive the Jews into the sea" on 5 different occasions. And yet Israel is the side accused of ethnic clensing... ignoring the fact that there are over a million muslim citizens who live in Israel while the Arab world is now 99% Jew-Free.
Yep, once upon time there were a million Jews in the Arab world until they were all kicked out.
I of course hope for a peacefull two-state solution. But as long as Hamas calls to wipe out Israel and "kill the Jews until Judgement-Day", there will never be peace. How do you negotiate with people who proudly call for your genocide?
Actually this is exactly what I am talking about.. People should learn about the conflict before they talk in a clueless way about what is goin on there and apparently u are one of those people.. and I would have said the same thing to a person who is taking the other side the way u are..
That's just plain lazy. If you believe I am not being factual, by all means, please correct me. But don't just claim that I do not understand the history of this conflict.
games are entertainment,not politics
Give back whats NOT yours.
EDIT: http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...
Read that and find something positive, you won't. This is just one sad story among many. Amazing how israel can get away with this, hell they even built nuclear weapons in secret and nobody did a damn thing. If any other nation tried this bullsh*t there would be hell to pay.
FYI: Being critical/opposed to israel doesn't make you an anti-semite. Although many douchebags use that against people.
Ignoring the possibility that your username could be linked to "Panzerfaust Records" which is a NeoNazi music label, assuming that you simply like German Warfare or a game with that name... Would you care to elaborate? Because I'm sure that both Israel and Palestine agreed in accords to the territories they inhabit right now.
Edit:
"Read that and find something positive, you won't."
I find it possitive that Israel won't allow their nation to keep being BOMBED. After all, it's not like israeli citizens will want to jump the Wall, since they're too busy building their own nation instead of blaming the neighboring one for their problems. So now Israel has to ask permittion to defend themselves? Seriously, this is too funny...
"This is just one sad story among many."
There are many sad stories on BOTH sides of the conflict.
"Amazing how israel can get away with this,"
Uh, did you forget that USA is building a wall to prevent Mexican illegal immigrants from crossing the border? I don't see Europe react the same way they do when Israel actually does something to defend themselves. People actually expect Israel to do nothing when they're being suicide bombed, an act which is as coward as it gets, since it doesn't even allow for the individual to actually respond about his crimes; to kill yourself is the easiest way out to all your problems.
"hell they even built nuclear weapons in secret and nobody did a damn thing."
I don't see anyone doing a damned thing against USA, Russia, France, England, North Korea and Iran. Hell, you think those are the only countries with Nuclear Bombs? You think Israel is the only country in the middle east with Nuclear bombs? Don't be naïve. The best thing is for everyone to have nuclear bombs, including all arab nations. While that sounds very scary... it's actually a good way for a nation to have life insurance. If everyone's armed, then everyone's scared to death of everyone else, therefore no need to go to war since that would lead to nothingness. On the other hand, if everyone's dissarmed, there's still the possibility of someone or another secretly arming themselves. Which is why it should be official for everyone to arm themselves with nuclear bombs. In fact, USA suffers from the fact that not everyone has guns, which is the same problem that the world faces. Canada, Japan, Germany and France are one of the worlds best gun controlled nations which is why there are very few homicides, but there are still a few illegal weapons out there and there are still homicides. On the other hand, many in the states have guns, but not all, which is why there is such a huge criminality rate. If everyone had a gun, then morons would think twice before making a crime. In fact, that's why Israel, where EVERYONE has a gun, has such a low criminality rate, because everyone has a gun, knows well enough how to use it, which would make anyone think twice before making a dumb move, and again, it makes homicide rates almost non-existent. Which is why suicide bombing is more effective than terrorists with guns (and that's why Israel needs tighter measures of security).
"If any other nation tried this bullsh*t there would be hell to pay."
That's not true. As I said before, Iran, North Korea, China, Russia, France, USA, England and so on don't have to pay sh1t; Iran, Iraq and Turkey treat Kurds like crap, and I don't see the rest of the world screaming for a Kurdistan for the kurds (although there SHOULD be one). Austria is the country that, in the world, treats immigrants worse than any other country in the world, and they have had to pay nothing; only Israel's problems are overblown by the media. I bet that even Germany has a few Nuclear shells hidden.
Unfortunately, they can't seem to give Gaza away. Not in the Camp David negotiations, and not during disengagement.
The fact that I or anyone actually trying to make an unbiased point or put some leverage against biased opinions, and not center the debate solely in favor of Israel or Palestine, makes you all look like a bunch of unreasonable jew haters. Seriously, "Israel, return what's not yours" only makes me think that you people are implying that Israel has no right to land.
Making such ludicrous claims as "Palestinian Woman Rape mini-game ? or just a torture Mini game maybe ?", which makes me wonder if you're actually rooting for someone (or against another) in this conflict. Your level of bias can only be part of the problem and also an explanation for why the world is so fvcked up as of late.
I guess we shouldn't root for peace for everyone and unbiased debate, for peace on both lands and for the safety and happiness of everyone. We have to undo everything that has been done, displace as many jews as possible until they have as little land as they possibly can have if they do have, and keep hating jews because jews are bad and the source of all of the worlds evils and imperfections. There has to be somebody to take the blame, because it's wrong to realize that we are all humans, that nobody is perfect and that more than one band can be guilty of this.
IMHO, it's time to learn and to be responsible instead of blaming scapegoats for your problems.
Edit:
That land doesn't belong to the jews because jews simply "claim" it to be theirs, or because of religion. Jews have lived there always for thousands of years. Jews were expelled by the Romans, but there was always jewish presence in those lands. There was never a palestinian identity or nation. It was, after Romans expelled the jews, always part of an Empire, be it the Brits, the Arabs, the Sarracens, the Turks... but even if it wasn't, there was really not a Palestinian identity.
The palestinian identity wasn't invented until Arabs saw jewish immigration as a "threat" to the "arabness" of the region. Arabs never really owned that land, and it showed: Being the british the owners, and before that many others, the land was never really worshiped or worked, it was simply maintained there as a medal of empires, since of course, it was home to the holy Jerusalem.
It wasn't until the nationalist movements in Europe where jews were starting to become excluded, especially seen in the 30s and 40s in Germany, which is why they, after centuries of persecussion and massive slaughter, they saught a home, a home which was always there and which they longed for for two milleniums. Herzl, with the help or Rothschild, actually bought the land from the British.
With what right were they buying those lands, you ask? Officially it wasn't illegal, but assuming it was of the arabs, where were the arabs? The arabs weren't really working the land, as the lands were swamps made inhabitable by the Jews with the use of swamp drying, water sucking trees once they started Immigrating. One of the few things recorded to be done by local arabs was to literally piss and litter on the Western Wall, all of which was cleaned once Jews started immigrating. In fact, it wasn't just the Jews who cleaned, the Arabs helped too, all due to the fact that a few Rich jews actually immigrated to the land, threw some of their golden coins inside the trash and spread the words to their arab neighbors, which is why they helped.
"In 1898, German Kaiser Wilhelm II also visited Palestine. He was appalled at the condition of the country. The Ottomans had stripped the forests for lumber and firewood. The Palestinian Arabs had let an old Roman aqueduct fall into ruin. The ultimate ecological curse was the ubiquitous herds of black goats. For nearly 2,000 years after the dispersion of the Jews, Arabs had allowed their goats to graze unfenced across Palestine. They had eaten the grass down to its roots, and the topsoil had eroded and blown away. The biblical land of milk and honey had become a dust bowl."
– Palestine: The Original Sin, Meir Abelson"
That's not to say that arabs weren't living there, because they were, but their cultural life as a sort of "palestinian identity" was almost non-existent because after all, a "Palestinian" nation never really existed.
Anyway, all of that was between 1880 and 1920. It wasn't until 1920 that arabs and jews were living peacefully, until arabs attacked a jewish village in 1923. Then the jews retaliated in 1929. Then again the arabs, and so on.... the conflict started. But again, it was all british land, partially bought by jews until an agreement could be reached.
The thing is, there weren't as many arabs in Israel/Palestine as there are today, and not as many jews either. It wasn't until after the second world war that there were very significant numbers on both sides, partly because arabs didn't want a jewish majority, and partly because once jews started to make Tel Aviv and other cities florish, commerce and other activities were growing at a fast rate, helping arabic economies.
After the WWII, the state of israel was founded. No side of the conflict was innocent, as both commited war crimes. In the end, Israel became a state, and arabs kept some land. In fact, after that, arabic countries started to hate and reject jews, and therefore there was an exchange of citizens between israel and the rest of the arabic countries. Jews from every arabic country arrived in Israel, whereas arabs from all israel went to the rest of the countries, an almost equal amounts.
However, back then, nobody was talking about a Palestinian nation, and "palestinians" never said anything to the rulers of their new home. Egypt and Jordan never made an effort to make two independent countries, Gaza and Cis-Jordan when they were owned by them.
It wasn't until arab countries all attacked Israel at once that Israel actually won the wars and regained more territory. Israel simply won the Sinai in order to reach peace accords with Egypt. The rest of the territories were never even thought to give Israel trouble, since neither Egypt nor Jordan actually wanted them, which is when the arabs inside those territories had no choice but to invent themselves a new identity, that of the "Palestinian" in the 70s. That's when Arafat started to become known.
Why did they start caring about their "country" once they were part of Israel? They were part of a better economy, yet they chose to make war on a country that would have actually granted them equal rights the way they do with Israeli Arabs, the Druze and the beduins. So, after some discussion, ISrael actually decided that it didn't really matter anymore if Palestinians had legitimate claims or not, what was important was to make peace.
It seemed that Arafat was never satisfied and wanted everything or nothing. Which is what has been happening and what Arafat inherited to his brethren, despite the fact that he was a billionaire with an account in Switzerland, and his family inherited everything, including a PentHouse in Paris while the rest of the Palestinians are angry and hungry.
Anyway, Jerusalem has never been as sacred to the muslims as it is to jews. Muslims pray looking towards Mecca (or Medina?), which is giving their backs to Jerusalem. Jerusalem was not very important to the arabs until the Middle-Eastern conflict.
However, none of this is really important now. Whether jews have a right to claim that land as theirs or not is not even important anymore, as there are 7 million jews there already. Same thing applies for the Palestitians. Whether they have an identity or not doesn't even matter anymore. They are about 4 million and growing, so displacing jews or palestinians would be a mess in every way, logistically, economically, socially and politically. The only important thing now is reaching a peace accord.
And if you want to debate whether Israel's existence is legitimate or not, you could question nearly every country's existence. America was founded by those that decimated the Indians. The Aztecs decimated the rest of the native americans in Mexico, and the Spaniards decimated the Aztecs. Romans decimated almost all of Europe. The greek conquered everything. Persia, babylon, mesopotamia. Hell, all europe should belong to the Basques! Great Britain should belong to the Scots or the irish, not the English!
It's not all like that though, you're not gonna undo everything that has happened. All nations were born from an original sin, and what's important is that there is peace now between "natives" and "immigrants", including America, Canada, almost all of latin america, some parts of Asia and Europe, and of course, Israel. In Israel, you could say that everyone is an immigrant, since after all, like in any place, everyone descends from immigrants, since humanity started about 2 million years ago in Africa.
Oh I forgot, they're G*D's chosen people. I should try that one.
Hey bootsielon, can I have your house? G*d told me its mine.
"find it possitive that Israel won't allow their nation to keep being BOMBED."
-AGAIN...the the land is NOT israel's. It goes well beyond their recognized borders, its a land grab.
"Uh, did you forget that USA is building a wall to prevent Mexican illegal immigrants from crossing the border?"
-America is protecting its borders from ILLEGALS. Palestinians are CITIZENS, 2nd-class citizens the way they're treated.
"The best thing is for everyone to have nuclear bombs"
-RIGHT, cuz the idea of those countries just 1 button push away from nuclear war makes me feel so secure. Especially in a powder keg like the Middle East. Are you retarded?
Secondly Iran and north korea have both faced heavy sanctions when they're nuclear projects were revealed. Did anyone raise a voice against israel? Of course not who would wanna go against "God's chosen people."
You say Israelis aren't supposed to sit back while Palestinians bomb them then the palestinans are supposed to sit back when they're lands being taken under the pretense of the other side's security???
To Israel bashers, of course not. Steeling land from Jews is fine, but conquering land from Arabs in defensive wars is clearly not.
I am guessing by your "God's chosen people" remark, chances are you are not a fan of Jews. It's ok, most people aren't.
Every generation seems to believe they have the definitive reason to justify their hatred towards the Jews. Whether it was for killing Christ, the Plague, hurting Germany's economy, or preventing the Arab world from thriving... there is always a reason. 50 years later, these reasons are revealed as bull and the next new reason is invented.
It seems that the current generation believes that even though the Arab world is now 99% Jew-Free, "justice" requires getting rid of that last 1%
The jews migrated into what was called Canaan, killing every Canaanite living there. Then the Romans kicked them out after they revolted. Fast foward to after WW2 and they move in AGAIN, despite every Arab nation in the Middle East voting against the partition. There wasn't any opposition to jews until they came in hordes and drove out the Palestinians who'd been living there for over 1000 years.
"Every generation seems to believe they have the definitive reason to justify their hatred towards the Jews."
-What the f**k are you talking about? The jews have persecuted other peoples in the past as well as today. Stop regurgitating what you read on the jewish virtual library, its sad.
bubbles 4 u. The palestinians are treated like cokroaches. Kahane advocated this and wiping all arabs off that land & yet while Israel condemns this man, his influence in the ISraeli army still today is undeniable. Many Israelis nowadays refer to arabs and palestinians as terrorists just to gain sympathy in the west. While reffering to an entire group of people who follow islam as terrorists is acceptable and allowed, it is downright atrocious to criticise Israel & is considered anti semitic. Double standards.
You mention Jesus. This is what zionist pplz think of him
http://www.youtube.com/watc...
And Btw people should understand both sides of the story. Yes Hamas militant groups keep firing small rockets everyday, which has claimed the life of 13 people in 8 years but what happened a few days ago. Israel fired a missile which killed a hell of alot of women and children in 1 day, but when they apologise we just accept it and move on. THey've done this countless times in the past yet continue to do so now. Do you know the jews lived peacefully under muslim controlled Palestine before the birth of the zionist state. After 9/11 do you think the palesinians are given any shred of remorse.I can say sooo many other unbelievably wicked things Israel has done but watch this video if you want to know a lil bit.
http://www.youtube.com/watc...
I know a great amount about it, because I actually had to live through some of it over there
P.S. The jews never lived peacefully anywhere ever(especially in Muslim and Islamic populated countries), not even amongst themselves. Messiah based religions don't mix and never will. Jews are practically nomads because of persecution
sorry double post
Over issues, technology, and concepts which the majority of us here have little if any real understanding.
Let me put this into perspective.
I know people in Southern California that to this day believe that California is part of Mexico and is being illegally occupied by the US. If you look at the history California was land won in a war against Mexico, it was not purchased. Does that truly make it part of the US? If not, why not? If it is, then why isn't the West Bank, Gaza, and the Golan Heights part of Israel?
What do you think the US would do if missiles started hitting San Diego and San Antonio from Mexico on a daily basis from people calling for the return of California? What would you do? Sure they aren't a military threat to the nation as a whole, but would America stand by and let children and families be killed nearly every week, and property be damaged nearly every day by these little rockets?
Now think about all of this, do a hypocrisy check for a second, and realize these things may not be a simple as arguing which gaming console is the best one or which booth babe had the hottest thong at a convention.