80°

Are games costing consumers less but developers more?

MWEB GameZone writes: "According to XSOLLA, the rise of mobile gaming, the free-to-play (F2P) market, Steam sales and ease of game development have all impacted the video game industry in a negative way. AAA developers seem to bear the brunt of the changes in the industry and this could lead to more studios closing down."

Sillicur3546d ago

I always just see "steam sale" and buy, but never thought about how it all affects the developers.

Great for us consumers but i would hate to see some of my favorite studios close.

liquidhalos3546d ago

I dunno but mweb is charging customers more while giving them the slowest speeds in Africa. Nice one mweb. Disgusting site.

3-4-53545d ago

It's not just cost. Games are of less quality than 10-15 years ago and that is fact.

Not all games, but the overall majority....collectively.

Scatpants3545d ago

Not fact. Rose colored glasses maybe.

lord zaid3546d ago

If budgets are increasing, then devs need to think about why that is the case. This is not an issue for consumers to worry about.

HanCilliers3546d ago

I think it's way more complicated than just budgets. Those points raised are all very valid concerns. The industry has changed and devs need new strategies

ScorpiusX3546d ago

Could it be that they try to hard to satisfy the entitled gamer or fickle gamer who makes outrageous demands of developer & their game all for a $ 60.00 price. who also complains about DLC and thinks eveything should be in game even if content was created after release. M2C

Menkyo3546d ago

Content recreated after release isn't the issue, its DLC that is blatantly ripped out of the game then offered as dlc on say DAY ONE that most gamers have a problem with. Examples from ashes in ME3 blatantly ripped from the game and offered as DLC, some games have even had the "real" ending held back and offered as DLC, capcom anyone?

HanCilliers3546d ago

Now that is very well said.

Scatpants3545d ago

DLC isn't "ripped out of the game" it is decided from day one of game developement that there will be some content that is sold as DLC. It sucks, but that's how it works now.

Darkstares3546d ago

Most things inflate over time. Didn't games cost around $50 30 years ago? They have only gone up 20% since then. The main issue are the AAA games, they used to be made by few people but now have upwards of 100's and costs are well above the 10's of millions of dollars.

This is why we will see fewer and fewer AAA new ip's. Too much risk at stake and if they are made they are made to be big hits like Destiny. That means the rise in indie games will keep gaining ground with various price points.

Jdoki3546d ago

The cost of games is an interesting debate...

Here's the thing I have never been able to fully get my head around...

To produce a PC game costs X

To produce a console game costs X plus License fee to manufacturer

For YEARS PC games have had higher resolution, higher quality textures, and generally require at least as much effort, if not more effort, to produce than a console game (as PC devs need to account for differing hardware set ups - such as AMD vs Nvidia).

Yet, PC games have always been cheaper than console games. If the price difference was simply the licensing fee being passed on to the consumer that's OK. But the leap from PS3/360 to PS4/XB1 has seen a significant increase in prices.

What is the real justification for the increase? Most devs are now using multi-purpose game engines that scale between platforms (some even scale from high end PC down to mobile); and in general the PS4 and XB1 are much more 'PC like' in architecture compared to the PS3 and a PC for example - so cross platform releases / ports should be quicker (and time = money).

So a dev may need more texture artists, modellers and some types of roles - but in other areas they may need less people.

The other part of the debate is how people's expectations are changing. We are going through a period of change with F2P and low entry price for mobile games - some of which are pretty high quality. But what i think is that the pricing model will start to converge between platforms.

We are already seeing more games on mobile costing upwards of £10 - £20, and I think this trend will continue. There will come a point where the F2P market will be saturated and the business model will shift again.

Also, you could also view mobile gaming as a good gateway to console / PC gaming. Just look at the sales of PS4, and even XB1 - they are higher than last gen - with a limited library of games, the hardware is still flying off the shelves.

Those people are going to want to buy games for their new consoles.

Finally - there's the risk versus reward aspect. Publishers are not stupid - Ubi, EA, and Activision do massive amounts of market research. they have a good idea of what will sell, and in what volume, and what the market currently wants. If a Publisher is green-lighting games with budgets that are not going to return on investment. And spending millions marketing bad games. That is their problem / fault.

HanCilliers3546d ago

I agree with you that expectations keep on shifting, as you've pointed out re F2P and mobile. I do also think that gamers are demanding more for less on the one hand and devs are pumping out DLC's to counter that. It's an unhealthy cycle.

mechlord3546d ago

I think part of the solution for your main question is licencing and royalties. On PC you don't have to pay anyone for the privilege of developing on a particular console (i say privilege because otherwise i don't see why people would need to pay fees)

But i think this question touches ALOT os aspects, i would like to focus on 2, which i think are mostly seen by us gamers:

1. Exorbitant advertising:
You see, all i do is to look online for release dates, gaming conferences and word of mouth to put games under my radar. If there is a game i like from a dev i tend to look for more of the same, like Transistor and Bastion). The so called AAA games spend an immense fortune doing all sorts of advertising and that in my view is money ill-spent.

2. Perception of quality:

The second best game i played last gen was Demon's Souls and that game had its graphical glitches. BUT, the game was so awesome that no one ever complained about those. We somehow came to believe that unless your game is a graphical powerhouse its not really worth our attention and label it immediately niche.

Devs have to spend an enormous amount of resources to achieve that status that we gamers demand from our AAA studios, fueling the problem.

Not that i don't like these games, but what happens is that graphical prowess is used as a marketing tool while what really makes or breaks a game is gameplay.
(*kof *kof *kof Ryse *kof *kof)

HanCilliers3546d ago

Couldn't have said it better! Gameplay>all else IMHO. If AAA devs perhaps spend less on hype then it wouldn't cost them so much in overall budget.

Jdoki3546d ago

@mechlord

I agree with your post.

I wonder how much the royalties / licensing costs. And why would it increase from one gen to the next (assuming that the increase of RRP is a significant result of those factors).

I recall way back when Nintendo had the 'Seal of Quality' and actually applied it to all games released. Their rules were pretty hardcore, but when you have a 90+% market share with the NES you can throw your weight around :). I know the Seal meant nothing by the time the N64 came out, and was just a gimmick... And of course Ninty got done for price fixing, which may or may not be slightly off topic.

Your second point is particularly valid. You only have to look at the number of troll articles that discuss resolution and frame rate above game play and innovation. And when devs have to come out and defend / justify their resolution / fps design decisions... Something has gone wrong.

uth113546d ago

Even reusing the game engines, creating these huge open worlds demands creating tons and tons of content. Plus you need testers to test all that. It is a huge, huge effort. I believe that's what causes the AAA budgets to explode

Menkyo3546d ago

There have been numerous reports for the last 6 years about how developing games or making games is the cheapest its ever been. So I don't believe for one minute the current pricing model is hurting devs or publishers in anyway. I agree with what someone else said whether the games are costing more to produce isn't a consumer problem or one we should worry about all we need to worry about is the quality of the game and keeping the cost to us down.

Gh05t3546d ago

"Even if you release an amazing game with dozens of hours of content and think that it's worth a $50 price tag, the market may not agree with you. Many developers don't have the savings to wait for profit over a course of years due to sales."

So lets go back to business and marketing 101...

If there is no market for a $50 game...

Maybe STOP making huge development costing games that you have to charge $50 for. Maybe you cut your team down, take longer than a year to develop and release at what the MARKET can sustain. If you cant then why are you in business anymore?

I mean really all this article is saying is that large studios aren't adapting to the market and want to do things like they have always done regardless of supply and demand, new technology, easier development. You cant say with products like Unity its easier to develop and also say people are spending more to develop.

Another glazed over fact is the video game industry is a multibillion dollar industry and they make it sound like it was anywhere near that back in the early 90's. The model they are using is wrong and they are suffering from being too big to control in a volatile market.

I believe in a free market system if you cant compete you change or close down. That is what businesses do. People make it sound like people have a "Right" to have overgrown bad business models, and its the markets fault.

Businesses cater to the market, the market doesn't cater to business.

Last point if an industry has more money being spent on games but somehow its again costing developers more to develop with a larger industry and easier tools, then again your business model is wrong. Never blame the market for shifting, that happens with EVERYTHING.

Adapt and overcome.

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130°

70 percent of devs unsure of live-service games sustainability

With so many games fighting for players' attention and interest losing out over time, time sink games are at risk of eventually losing steam.

Read Full Story >>
gamedeveloper.com
thorstein1d 14h ago

It was worrisome to begin with.

It's a niche genre with only a handful of hits that can stand the test of time.

Cacabunga17h ago

I like the sound of that!! I will for sure never support these gaas games.
Sony must be shocked at gamer's reaction, making them cancel a few of these and hopefully go back to the good heavy hitters they had us used to..
now bring on that PSPro reveal and show us some SP 1st party awesomeness.

CrimsonWing691d 13h ago

What’s to be unsure of!? Look at the ratio of success to failure!

DarXyde20h ago

It's pretty ridiculous.

Imagine having a breadth of data at your disposal to see the statistically low success rate of these games, only to be laser focused on the exceptional case studies.

shinoff21831d 12h ago

Yes. Stop all the live service bs.

jznrpg1d 11h ago

Only a few will catch on. You need a perfect storm to be successful in GaaS and a bit of luck on top of that. But a potential cash cow will keep them trying and some will go out of business because of it.

MIDGETonSTILTS171d 11h ago

Helldivers 2 manages just fine…

Keep production costs low… don’t just make custscenes until the mechanics and enemies are perfected first.

Make so much content that you can drip extra content for years, and the game already feels complete without them.

Most importantly: make weapons, enemies, levels, and mechanics that will stand the test of 1000 hours. This might require more devs embracing procedurally generated leveled, which I think separates Helldivers 2 from Destiny’s repetitiveness.

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60°

The Battle Pass Is The Worst Thing To Happen To Modern Gaming

Nameer from eXputer: "Some exceptions aside, I don't think the battle pass is a net positive for gaming with how they're implemented in most live service titles."

got_dam1d 15h ago

Battle passes AND meta gaming both.

DivineHand1251d 14h ago (Edited 1d 14h ago )

I like the way Helldivers 2 does battle passes. It allows you to make purchases on each level of the battle pass and gives you the option of choosing which item to unlock first. The more purchases you make using medals the further you progress. There is no timer and you can earn medals towards purchasing stuff via personal orders and Major orders.

I haven't played much live service games that have battle passes but I remember some games that have battle passes where you progress through it linearly using an exp system. What makes it really bad is that the battle pass will have like 50 or more levels with the cooler stuff being closer to the end. They also have an in-game shop that sells exp boosters so you can reach the end of the pass before it refreshes. Everyone ilse will have to grind their way through.

lucian2291d 13h ago

battle pass in fortnite is perfect; buy one and it buys the rest for every other season as it gives you more money than the first cost. so 8.50 and season ends with you getting 13.00, it pays for the next and you have some pocket change to save up for cash shop. All of which is optional

470°

PS5 Pro specs leak video taken down by Sony

Sony is taking actions as video by Moore’s Law is Dead, has been issued with a copyright claim.

Read Full Story >>
videogameschronicle.com
andy852d ago

And people say it's all fake because Sony haven't said anything 😂 conveniently forget the PS4 Pro was only announced 2 months before release.

BeHunted2d ago

It's fake. There's no factual evidence other than his own made up specs.

Hereandthere2d ago

What were the specks Sony was afraid of showing?

Shikoku2d ago (Edited 2d ago )

Digital foundry put a video out saying what he leaked was exactly what they also knew about the PS5 PRO. So no it's not just stuff he made up

Babadook72d ago (Edited 2d ago )

If it’s fake what copyright does MLID infringe upon?

😂

andy852d ago

Aye because they'd go to the effort of copyright claiming it if it didn't exist 🙃😂 you'd have to be a special kind to be thinking its not a thing by now

Cacabunga2d ago

They need to reveal it with uncharted killzone or a heavy hitter like this

Ironmike2d ago (Edited 2d ago )

U mean the specs that we'll established digital foundry which said these are the actual specs published a video on 2 weeks ago I mean they are only one of most trusted sites for tech information but they just made up a video for the sake of it

Christopher1d 14h ago

I would love for it all to be fake, but lots of people are saying they've seen/heard the same thing. But, man, we 100% don't need mid-gen upgrades when we're failing hard to optimize current hardware.

+ Show (4) more repliesLast reply 1d 14h ago
Seraphim1d 10h ago (Edited 1d 10h ago )

if I recall Sony lowered sales expectations for PS5 earlier this year. if that is the case we won't hear anything about a Pro until next year or shortly before/when it's dropping. After all, if the Pro was dropping this year/fiscal year they wouldn't have lowered expectations.

As for squashing rumors. Yeah, shit like this prevents potential buyers from adopting now, just like slim rumors in the past. It only makes sense to keep things under wraps from a business perspective. Despite living in a technological age of unfettered access to information we don't need to know whats going on behind closed doors be that at Sony, Nintendo, MS, or amongst any development studios. When the steak is done we shall feast.

JackBNimble1d 9h ago

By the time games are actually made to take advantage of the pro spec's the ps6 will be released or close to it.

jznrpg2d ago (Edited 2d ago )

Just announce it already! I want to preorder one asap. But in reality they don’t want to lessen PS5 sales until Pro is ready to launch so I understand the business part of it. September is probably when they announce it with an early November launch like the PS4 Pro

Ironmike2d ago

Pro won't lessen sales sames ps4 pro never and the ps4 pro was more relevant at the time cos move to 4k this not needed

RaidenBlack1d 21h ago (Edited 1d 21h ago )

Yea, my brother got his PS4 (coz of a good deal) after the PS4 Pro's release.

darthv721d 18h ago

^^same here. I got a base 4 for only $100 off a guy who bought the Pro. then a few months later I found a guy on craigslist selling a pro for $100 because it was left behind by his former roommate who moved out. That was the beginning of my obsession to buy up the different variants of the PS4 that were released.

As of now I am really only missing the 500m one and the gold slim but otherwise I have pretty much all the other retail ones. https://consolevariations.c...

BoneMagnus1d 16h ago

@darth - Nice collection!

crazyCoconuts1d 11h ago

Anyone with 4K that appreciates 60fps is gonna disagree about it not being needed.
DLSS is a god send for Nvidia, and there's been nothing like it for AMD...yet ...

+ Show (1) more replyLast reply 1d 11h ago
DeadlyFire1d 16h ago

They will announce it around E3 timeframe about May-June whenever they do a showcase for the year.

neutralgamer19922d ago

Just announce it this thing will sell well

Ironmike2d ago (Edited 2d ago )

I don't think it will pll still haven't seen the potential of ps5 yet

Cacabunga1d 14h ago

agreed, but it might sell if they announce some 1st party games to lead the way. if people see the difference with the base version they can move on. for my sake I am still gaming mainly on PS4 (still not finished with RDR2 due to lack of gaming time). I have a huge backlog on PS5 I am hoping to get into.

mark3214uk1d 23h ago

why? game makers havnt even come close to maxing out current spec yet, were getting al lthese new TFlops and game maker are making crappy remakes not worthy of the ps3

Minute Man 7211d 18h ago

The guts of the 5 and X are 5 years old

fr0sty1d 12h ago

People keep saying that, yet we still have games running at near HD resolutions, 30fps, and ray tracing features turned off.

PRIMORDUS2d ago (Edited 2d ago )

I would take that video and upload a torrent of it, fuck that copyright bullshit. If your going to do something that has a chance of being taken down, make a torrent first share it. Then Sony or any other company is helpless and you can laugh in their faces, taunting them to try to take it down 🤣

LoveSpuds1d 22h ago

With kind of analysis and advice, you could be a lawyer for Trump!🤣

tronyx121d 22h ago

As much as the PS4 Pro didn't represent a major % in the playerbase, announcing a 'better' model will hinder sales from the 'base' model. They are right, business-wise.

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