There has been a lot of discussion lately on the possibility of AMD’s Mantle to be used to improve the performance of PS4 and Xbox One like it did for certain games on PCs using AMD video cards, and today AMD Senior Director of Global Software Alliances Neal Robison explained that something can indeed be done during the Q&A Session of a press conference held in Tokyo.
Futuremark has released the first application test via which PC users can measure the performance differences between DirectX 12, DirectX 11 and AMD’s Mantle API.
Giving what console have to PC (which is what DX12 is) is going to give some nice boost to PC.
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/dir...
As MS devs themselves says, DX12 is all about giving what console have to PC.
For someone who will never own an X1, yet comments on every Xbox article.... Is that not trolling? Ahhh that double standard thing that goes on here.... Saw another one, xboxfanf$ck... Hours ago... Still unpunished.... But the poor pony, from Minecraft will get you banned...
So I've only been following DX12 news on and off, but we'll need Win 10 for DX12? That sucks!
Because I'm comfortable with Win 7. Yes, it's currently free, but I'm skeptical to download it now because I only have 1 PC and considering Win 10 is still in beta, if something were to go wrong I'd be screwed. If you're using Win 10 right now can you tell me what your experience with it so far is?
@testfire
I've been running it since they released the beta and no issues here. I like it quite a bit actually.
I don't understand why people don't believe the DX12 benchmarks. For example, Forza Horizon 2 is the only seamless open world game at 1080p other than GTAV on consoles. FH2 is only using part of DX12 features. Forward rendering, thousands of light sources, all running at 4XMSAA. That's a current example right there.
Rofl that gif cracks me up every time. Facial expressions are perfect.
On topic: Looking good. DX12 looks extremely positive for almost all devices and platforms thus far. Can't wait to see the final changes upon release!!
3D Mark is for PC, not for Xbone!!!
Quote :
For example, Forza Horizon 2 is the only seamless open world game at 1080p other than GTAV on consoles. FH2 is only using part of DX12 features. Forward rendering, thousands of light sources, all running at 4XMSAA. That's a current example right there.
You gave us the straight answer! Xbone already has DX12 and i won't have huge impact on Xbone cuz already is low-level coding supported! Yeah, you know what you're talking about!
Phil Spencer's real view on DX12 "Won't make a dramatic difference on Xbox One"
"On the DX12 question, I was asked early on by people if DX12 is gonna dramatically change the graphics capabilities of Xbox One and I said it wouldn’t. I’m not trying to rain on anybody’s parade, but the CPU, GPU and memory that are on Xbox One don’t change when you go to DX12. DX12 makes it easier to do some of the things that Xbox One’s good at, which will be nice and you’ll see improvement in games that use DX12, but people ask me if it’s gonna be dramatic and I think I answered no at the time and I’ll say the same thing."
http://www.dualshockers.com...
And what is DX12 according to AMD :
http://image.slidesharecdn....
@Lennoxb63
Quote :
Forza Horizon 2 is a DX11 game which used some of DX12's features. DX12 is not currently being utilized to full potential. FH2 just had better use of the X1's ESRAM. Please stop while you're ahead. You don't know what the hell you're talking about.
And you know what you're talking about??? Read what Phil said!
Forza Horizon 2 is a DX11 game which used some of DX12's features. DX12 is not currently being utilized to full potential. FH2 just had better use of the X1's ESRAM. Please stop while you're ahead. You don't know what the hell you're talking about.
You quote people but you have yet to prove me wrong about anything. Yes, FH2 is a DX11 game. Yes it utilizes some of DX12 features. Do you have something to say against that?
X1 DX12 benefits:
-1/3 CPU power needed for most tasks.
-All work in the console spread out to all 8 cores instead one.
-Thousands more drawcalls.
-HSA Compliant
-All 8 cores able to talk to the GPU simultaneously instead of one at a time.
Are you going to say I'm wrong? Send me a link that proves I'm wrong. You are clearly in over your head. Like I said, stop before you embarrass yourself. I like how you conveniently left this part of the slide show out to suit your argument.
http://cdn4.wccftech.com/wp...
Interesting bit of software. But it only tests one metric. Namely how efficiently the API can issue draw calls and how it impacts on CPU performance.
Interesting, but hardly a measure of overall system performance.
The true test for DX12 will be if it can offer substantial performance improvements on the GPU side as well. While low powered CPU's (where the CPU is the bottle neck in a system) will benefit most. Most serious gamers opt for a mid to high end CPU and its usually bandwidth or GPU bottle necks that hinder performance in a well built gaming rig.
Actually draw calls are one of the most used metrics for measuring performance, that along with frame time (which is the better metric). A lot of developers will be able to get a pretty good guess of how a game will perform just by the draw call count and the target hardware.
If you look up material on optimizing games you will generally find that draw calls and ways to reduce them are some of the most talked about items.
Source: Being a hobbyist games dev
The increased draw calls do boost the FPS, but is really more about putting more objects on the screen within a second. I believe the R9 290X beat the Titan in draw calls performance, but the Titan still had a better gain in frame rate.
This is true. But draw calls only impact CPU performance. The GPU relies on draw calls to tell it what to do.
Look at it this way. A system with a I5 2500k and HD7870 will have the exact same "draw call" performance as a system with a I5 2500k and a Titan.
The difference is in the first system the HD7870 will be the bottle neck (the CPU will be able to issue far more draw calls than the GPU could possibly render)
The second system the I5 2500k will be the bottle neck (the CPU will never be able to issue enough draw calls to saturate the Titans gargantuan render pipelines)
Like I said. Draw call performance is not a measure of overall system performance. And even the example is gave above is extremely simplified.
I ran the api overhead test and noticed an insane improvement with mantle vs dx11. Amazing what software can do. Lets all admit dx11 is crap, at least for AMDFX CPUS.
8,853,172 draw calls per second vs 581,462 draw calls per second. hmmmmmm.....
Can't wait to run dx12 when I get Windows 10.
I want to provide proof, but I am new, and can't add links
go to 3dmark, and add /aot/5870 to the address bar.
Capcom’s new engine Panta-Rhei is known mostly for its first announced game, the PS4 exclusive Deep Down, but Capcom has mentioned multiple times that the engine will be used for several future games and on multiple platforms.
Today AMD announced in a press release that during a Keynote in Singapore a partnership with Capcom has been made public to integrate the company’s API Mantle in Panta-Rhei “enabling enhanced gaming performance and visual quality for upcoming Capcom game titles.”
Mantle doesn't get used on PS4 because it would be redundant. PS4 already has a low-level, to-the-metal graphics API, so Mantle wouldn't help much there. Mantle is mainly for PC, to finally fix a lot of the problems that have been present in DirectX and OpenGL for too many years now.
Oddly, by the time this game ships, DirectX 12 will most likely be available and be the preferred path since it wouldn't be as closely tied to AMD hardware as Mantle would be.
It's not that DirectX and OpenGL had "problems", it's that they didn't offer a hands-off way of accessing the hardware. It's not something they'll get for "free" though in either case. The devs will now have to perform a lot of book keeping tasks that drivers used to do for them.
I know, but I don't know just how low level it is because the details are secret.
They say Mantle can give a huge boost to PC games. So it would seem possible it can help the PS4. But if the PS4 API is already that good, then great.
@uth11
"I don't know just how low level it is"
Low level is low level. It's assembly language. The next "lower" level would be binary, you just can't go lower than that. Beside Naughty Dog's The Last of Us I don't know about any other game that has been optimized on a binary level.
Source about the binary statement:
http://www.edge-online.com/...
Mantle API is for CPU alone not GPU. Low level API on consoles are for the entire hardware, and it goes as low as binary. Thus Mantle on consoles is not just redundant but inferior.
read the article. it say the engine Panta-Rhei that supports mantle. nothing to do with game
I read the article.
The game runs on that engine. that engine has mantle support. Its entirely possible to port it to PC and just and make it run even better (4K for example, or VR support). this is good for gamers all round. I think DD would be popular on PC.
"It’s relevant to mention that Mantle’s benefits are primarily localized on PC, and it’s unlikely that they’ll reflect on console games like Deep Down"
In other words mantle is in the engine for the benefit of PC.
"On the other hand, it will make porting titles between consoles and PC easier, as it lets developers code PC versions closer “to the metal” as they do on current generation consoles."
"Consoles to PC"
so deep down could come to PC later with all the DLC plus enhanced graphics. Maybe even cross play for PC and PS4.
It can be console exclusive to PS4 and still come to PC. and that will do wonders for the game, given its online centric, nature.
"Our massive interview with Lords of the Fallen dev Michele Giacalone is finally published. We talked about the game, PC, consoles and development techniques."
This game, looks really interesting. Lots of good information, can't wait to play it.
Well techincally PC is a one time investment. My secondary rig is now 6 years old. Features a I5 750 CPU from 2008. All it needed was a GPU upgrade for next gen games. So it was outperforming the previous consoles when i first built it and today it carries on beating the new consoles.
Funnily enough it just needed a 300usd(could have been even done with a 200usd gpu) GPU upgrade to make that happen. Meanwhile it can still play all my games bought last gen. No pay to go online fees, and cheaper price per game even today.
All it needed was a new heat sink to overclock to 4ghz and a GPU. Its again Set for another generation of console ass whooping.
So yea i could argue that system cost me way less then any console could cost me. Not to mention even if i did choose to completely remake that system I wouldnt need to buy Casing, HDDS, Keyboard, Mouse, Monitor, RAM, DVD drive, OS all over again which would significantly cut the cost of upgrading it(making it new basically).
Hence no i would think console gaming is much more expensive if you just dig a little deeper into the facts beyond.
You don't need lots of money, the investment is only a $100-$300 more than a console if you build it yourself but you're not paying for online and games are continuously on sale through many different sites. http://pcpartpicker.com/p/x...
unfortunately the pc advantage is only seen in multiplats which sony and microsoft dont build their platforms to be competitive vs pc in else theyed build platforms that could easily destroy any pc, but that wouldnt be cost effective
exclusives is where i dont see that pc advantage sorry pc fans
@GamingTruth
Exclusives is all personal preference, C&C, StarCraft, Total War, Company of Heroes, LoL, Dota, Divinity, Wasteland 2, Civilization are all great exclusives (C&C has a few games on consoles but the controls and framerate just don't work well.) + mod support for games like Fallout, TeS ect.
Nice interview. I hope to see VXGI, Async Compute and DX12 all in action very soon!
In 2-3 years, I bet that games will look much better than they do now.
according to latest previews this game will b bargain bin by xmas trying to hard to copy dark souls but with no personallity or character gameplay artwork bosses very underwhelming
Hey we have a negative nancy here. It seems like all you post is negative crap. You were just in the Dragon Age Inquisition article bashing that game too.
Personally, Darks Souls is the one that is lacking personality. The gameplay is good, but the storytelling, characters and graphics are all sub par. I'm not saying it is bad, but it definitely has its weak points. Lords of the Fallen at least has the potential to tell a better story with more interesting characters.
We'll see how it turns out, but so far it seems fairly promising.
Just a few weeks ago a dice dev said mantle isn't needed on ps4 as the ps4 API is better
Its about time. Good news
Wow, didn't expect this to be possible.
Why does Xbox One need Mantle if it's getting DX12? Code to the atoms?