DirectX12 coming to Xbox One

The DirectX12 website has been updated added the Xbox One logo

[Kayant]

Mistermediax redeemed /s

To be expect tbh. They will most likely talk about the parallels they learnt working with XB1 in transferring that to PC (in terms of the low-level optimizations)

[MorePowerOfGreen]

If you say so CBOAT. Dat spin and downplaying. https://twitter.com/tomwarr...
http://www.gamespot.com/art...

I remember PS3's early performance just after launch and I'll remember XB1's.

These new tools will make Tiled Resources in Direct3D 11+(Directx 11.2, look like warm ups.

[4Sh0w]

Lukas I'm actually confused myself because from my understanding DirectX 12, is a benefit for pc more so than a console, sort of like Mantle is a tool to help PC for lower level programming like consoles already do, but I could be waaay off so I'd appreciate if anybody has a "plain english" explanation.

Edit, I meant to reply to Lukas below.

[Kayant]

I do say so misterx insider....

Fiction and delusion works in wonderful ways....

Am sure MS will unlock the 128MB ESram, the second stacked chip thus by making the Xbox have an *innovative memory system* making it HSA compliant and with console level optimization with stereo drivers XB1 will be able to produce 10-12TF* depending on situation.

/s

@Lukas_Japonicus

Same here but from what I understand it means that XB1 could share the API features that DX12 will have.

On a side note I expect a new blog from misterx by tomorrow.

Also looool at me being CBOAT.

[DoesUs]

"I remember PS3's early performance just after launch and I'll remember XB1's"

Great, but the PS3 wasn't 40/45% down on power.

"These new tools will make Tiled Resources in Direct3D 11+(Directx 11.2, look like warm ups."

No, they won't. Sorry to burst you little bubble there.

Tools/tools/tools/SDK/SDK, what happened to all the cloud power and hidden super duper tripple layered design?

Your dumbness on tech talk knows no bounds.

[rdgneoz3]

"I remember PS3's early performance just after launch and I'll remember XB1's."

Sales or hardware performance? With sales, it released a year later than the 360 with a more expensive product. MS took the lead though Sony caught up eventually. Hardware, it had a powerful system that was difficult to program for till people got use to it.

Atm, you have xbone being a less powerful system that's more expensive...

[ProjectVulcan]

Sigh. It'll only be a few tool updates for Xbox One at best. The real significance is for PC gaming and always has been.

DirectX 12 isn't going to bring some sort of revolution in performance for Xbox One. It'll potentially add or improve some features, but that's what EVERY console EVER has done with their toolset and API, continuous, gradual evolution.

DX12 is much more important and significant for PC, because it should enable much lower level hardware access, closer to the kind of access a console already offers.

It'll effectively make Mantle pretty much DOA just because of how slow AMD have been.

For anyone hoping that DirectX 12 is going to some sort of miraculous performance boost across the board for Xbox One they are going to be disappointed.

[Leo Atrox]

DoesUs: "Tools/tools/tools/SDK/SD K, what happened to all the cloud power and hidden super duper tripple layered design?"

I don't know what "super duper tripple [sic] layered design" is, but the much ballyhooed "cloud power" is supposedly coming with Watch_Dogs. It ought to be interesting to see the difference between the PS4 and Xbox One versions. The PS4 has more power and better graphics; but, according to Ubisoft, all that dust blowing and trees swaying stuff in the early trailers is going to be powered by Azure servers in the Xbox One version of the game. I'm eager to see if this cloud thing makes any difference between the two noticeable.

[GameNameFame]

LOL. OpenGL and Mantle is far better suited for console.

Direct X12 is better for PC where you need optimization Direct X12 lacks.

Btw, this does not unlock extra power. It still remains about 50 percent gap of GPU.

[darthv72]

In other words...the new moniker will be:
XB1DX12

[GameNameFame]

Btw, what really is the point of this if Xbox One is not strong enough to handle features on DX11.

and btw, all DX11 features is literally on OpenGL.

Check this out
https://www.opengl.org/wiki...

Also, real dev who pushes hardware to limit doesnt even use this. They "code to metal" on PS4 and Xbox One to push it to limits.

Then, all it really matters is how much power you got? and Xbox One has far less.

[pyramidshead]

Apparently devs don't even use DX11.2 yet in its entirety if at all so expect games to be using DX12 in about 4 years or more, for console anyway.

Also, that awkward moment when the Day Z dev could be talking about anything lol.

[k3rn3ll]

I don't think many people are expecting improvements across the board. If u know tech at all you won't.

But either way any improvements are a good thing. I mean 2 days ago everyone was saying the xbox wouldn't benefit at all because the systems were already done and out before dx12 was finished. So all the people that believed that are wrong.

[360ICE]

@4sh0w

You're right. DirectX uses Direct Input among other things to help programmers deal with different types of drivers and computers. It could probably still be helpful for consoles, though. Maybe save console devs some hardcoding.

We'll see at GDC.

[Prime157]

I don't know, I expect something like "d3d vs ogl" campaign all over again.

Which means piling money on the PR and "ability" (ability as if it's better) while having very similar, while less returns as it's competitions.

Yay!

[DOMination-]

So much downplaying here at n4PSg. This news isn't going to change the world but extra supported features are always welcome and if it helps xb1 thats a good thing even for Sony - because better toolsets for xb1 means better multiplats and that should mean the ps4 version won't need to be as badly "gimped" (if that happens)

This should be good news for everyone

[andibandit]

Yeah, N4G is the only place where good news is bad news

[Gamer1982]

So what if its coming to Xbox One? IT means nothing really as devs will take a few years to get used to it just like with DX11 meaning if they do use it games won't look as good as DX11. Also you gotta understand how these things work to understand how well they will help a console and the fact is it wont help the xbox one at all at least not from a graphical standpoint. It may make games look better but it will take a bigger hit to hardware than DX11. The BIG plus side is porting PC DX12 games will be a lot easier as they won't be forced to remake in DX11. So it means less chances of devs just saying I CBA making an xbone version because its too much hassle.

[SephirothX21]

Directx 12 will provide a low level graphics AI and a higher level API that abstracts the functionality of the lower level API. Therefore the higher level API should not be too different from DirectX 11. DirectX 12 is basically an improved version of DirectX 11.x that the Xbox One currently uses and it will be added with a software update. Developers will then be able to choose what API to use on Xbox One. I'm currently working with DirectX 11.2 and anxious to see what DirectX 12 will bring to the table.

[bmx_bandit]

I said it in here weeks ago and got hundres of disagrees.....

DirectX 12 will bring the possibility to put a whole 1080p picture in the 32mb-ESRAM-Framebuffer. So 1080p will be standard.

[Ju]

FYI: Neither Mantel nor OpenGL exits for (next Gen) consoles. PS3 offers a PSGL API based on OpenGL/ES (incl. CG support).

[johndoe11211]

If you say so pal.

[christocolus]

This could be one of the upcoming features the dayz dev was talking about. I guess we will know more at GDC.

[GarrusVakarian]

Can someone explain to me what this actually means? I'm such a noob when it comes to things like this.

How can a new SDK and Directx12 improve weaker hardware? Genuine question. How much of a performance boost would this grant and HOW are my main questions.

[AutoCad]

this from reddit

DirectX is a performance interface that the xbox utilizes. It's designed to handle processes executed by your GPU. In theory, as DirectX is optimized, it's designed to get a little bit more out of the hardware you're using, namely graphics.

[Pogmathoin]

Not necessarily weaker hardware, just some key poor choices, stiff design. It is close to PS4, but at same time, miles away due to key choices. No doubt devs will get better with it, and tools to help, but still, MS certainly dropped the ball on X1.

[Eonjay]

Simply put, a more efficient API will allow developers to access more power with less effort. The most efficient code is machine language and since you can't expect developers to write advanced graphics engines in machine code, the next besr thing is an API that can do the low level talking for you.

For Example, when it was reported that the ICE team had increased tiling performance, the developer also noted that he had written the code in ASM, which is a low level code that is closer to machine code than C. This updated library will become part of the new API that increases the efficiency of higher level development.

[GUTZnPAPERCUTZ]

In short... Code Compression

[SonofGod]

On June last year MS showed a presentation where they had a GPU with a 16MB memory limit and used it to stream 6GB worth of textures. This will be the future of gaming.

I'm pretty sure the XO was made with Directx 12 in mind, that would explain the ESRAM and the tile move engines. Interesting..

[pyramidshead]

@autocad

I would avoid reddit for definitions lol.

[ChickeyCantor]

The problem with DirectX and OpenGL ( and anything similar ) is that there are layers of higher level code so that developers don't have to deal with technicalities such as machine specific code.

Because of these layers you are adding more overhead to your processing. It takes longer because of more added data that needs to be processed.

Consoles don't change hardware so developers can actually program closer to machine code instead of having all those extra layers to abstract hardware specifications.

This doesn't exist on PC's because of all the hardware configuration. That's why you need that level of abstraction.

But MS ( as well as the developers of OpenGL)is trying to do what AMD did with Mantle. OpenGL and DirectX are not just meant for games. So the API's served their purpose. But it seems like both DirectX and OpenGL are getting an overhaul to optimize code so it's closer to machine code. Less Overhead, more speed.

[Prime157]

They are cutting the fat off of the steak. Optimization happens across the board...

Oh, it's you Lukas, I totally bought into this like you didn't know,... Lol, well said.

Still, hardware is like a pool while software fills that pool. Software can only try to maximize hardware, not increase it. So, yes, this helps, but how does it help when comparing hardware.

[Gamer1982]

The problem is with DX is MS have a bad habit of using DX updates to just add new features ( like realistic fire and atmosphere) to the engine rather than optimize it. If anybody ever remembers DX10 it was horrid! You needed 5X the hardware specs to run games in DX10 mode for only 1X times the graphics..
Here's a great example
http://www.bit-tech.net/gam...

Those thinking this will help Xbone get better looking games by using less hardware are in for a shock as MS has a bad habit of going the opposite way..

[AngelicIceDiamond]

So DirectX12 is coming to X1.

What exactly does that mean again?

[Kingthrash360]

my thoughts too..guess we have to wait a few weeks to see...what exactly.

[4Sh0w]

OK, I've been trying to answer that question myself, at first I thought it was just a new tool for pc development, but looks like I was wrong, since micro press release say its:

"better tools so that you can squeeze every last drop of performance out of your PC, tablet, phone, and console."
http://www.gamespot.com/art...
http://www.pcworld.com/arti...

Im not sure what that means for X1 but I guess we'll find out as GDC. I think it might just be improving X1 drivers a bit but sounds like its going to be huge for pc, because it seems alot of pc sites I just read are pretty excited since the last major update was way back in 2008.

[SonofGod]

Imagine streaming 6GB worth of texture memory with only 32MB physical memory on hardware. That's what it means. MS showed it on a Directx 11.2 presentation on June last year, this is not magic.

Let's just say the XO was made for Directx 12.

[ProjectVulcan]

Not a whole lot. SonofGod is going mad like it is some sort of revolution, when it isn't.

For example the feature he talks about in this thread shown for DirectX 11.2 (which Xbox One ALREADY supports) was tiled resources, which was announced several years behind an AMD extension in OpenGL called AMD sparse texture.

There is nothing Xbox One can or will be able to do that Playstation 4 cannot replicate (and probably run faster) if a programmer really desires.

'Partially resident textures' are not a new thing by any means. Although Microsoft are trumpeting them, it is because they are new to DirectX specifically.

Playstation 4 however supports them in hardware. All AMD GCN GPUs do, of which PS4's is the fastest AMD GCN GPU in the current gen consoles. Certainly PS4's texture fillrate is better than Xbox One's.

The technique itself has been around for years and hasn't been used too much, for various reasons. As with anything there are upsides and downsides.

It's not a magic playing field levelling bullet. Nothing is.

http://www.anandtech.com/sh... Have a gander at this.

Look and sound familiar SonofGod?

This article is over 2 years old.

Note the bit at the bottom?

"As D3D is not normally extensible it’s really only possible to easily access the feature from other APIs (e.g. OpenGL)"

Sooooo...it's been a feature in OpenGl for years, and D3D hasn't supported it. Until now. Which is why you only just learnt about it and think it's a revolution and new.

[GUTZnPAPERCUTZ]

Here is DX9 vs DX11 on Crysis 2... in short, it makes a difference lol.
http://youtu.be/ON8fU2RWyK4

Oh and DX10 was only used for Xbox 360 as a custom API but you could download it for 32bit Vista as well

[dantesparda]

It just means that it might get a some new features that DX11+ doesnt have and maybe make some other ones more efficient. But DX isnt that efficient to begin with and you lose alot of performance for it. Sure its great for a dev to only have to program to one API and then let the hardware's raw power take care of the performance but when it comes to consoles, you dont really want DX (unless your priority is PC to X1/X1 to PC ports. For a console though you would prefer a custom API written to take as much advantage of the hardware its written for as possible (as close to the "metal" as possible). That way you can squeeze as much performance out of it as possble.

@SonofGod, sourgrouch and Gutz
Youse are all showing your ignorance. Gutz, 360 used DX9 with "SOME" DX10 features, and by some im talking about like 2 features. SonofGod and sour you two obviously know nothing about what you're talking about and instead are just parroting back sh!t youse heard/read on the internet

@vulcan
Dont forget CUDA had it prior to DX too.

To the MS fanboys, tiled resources is not new, like Vulcan said, AMD been had it and both consoles have basically the same hardware for it. And its nothing more than megatextures, already done on Rage on the PS3/360. Its not some revolutionary feature invented by MS, thats just them trying to hype it.

[ProjectVulcan]

"Here is DX9 vs DX11 on Crysis 2... in short, it makes a difference lol. "

Of course it does- because that is a PC implementation. Also there were over FIVE YEARS between DirectX 9c and DirectX 11. The difference between the DirectX APIs on WINDOWS also included a VAST array of hardware alterations in that time, which made things possible on DX11 class hardware formerly impossible on DX9 class hardware.

Console implementation is a different thing. You can do pretty much whatever you want within the hardware's constraints because you have very low level control of the whole system.

The Xbox One hardware is obviously fixed. therefore the difference between 11.2 now and 12 for a console will only be a refinement of the toolset which is only about 6 months old.

Xbox One hardware may meet some standards of DX12 and benefit from a newer toolset, but it will (obviously) not include hardware changes. Xbox 360 met some requirements of DirectX 10 and benefitted from some of the features, but not all(and not the significant ones), because it's hardware was obviously fixed before that version of DirectX. Much like Xbox One and DX12.

Whereas PC is free to introduce revised hardware specifications and have a more comprehensive implementation of DirectX 12 features.

[NeoTribe]

It means the xbox1 will be aspowerful as 100 xboxes! Than add ClOuDz support and its 200 xboxes in one. Pc master race cant even touch the soon to be al mighty xbox.

[SilentNegotiator]

It means that the graphics are going to run on a different platform and have one or two new tools. And that Xbox fanboys are going to pretend like this will vindicate eSRAM and make the graphics better, which it won't.

[webeblazing]

you thought pc games was ahead of console before wait til devs start us dx12. its like leap frog but the little kid is playing against Jordan

[jessupj]

I'm no software engineer so correct me if I'm wrong please, but since the the PS4 runs on openGL, which from my understand is extremely customisable, doesn't that mean any rendering technique or compression algorithm dirext12 uses on the xbone the PS4 can also useif the developers code it themselves?

Either way it's good to see both consoles improving. Can't wait to see the innovation in a couple of years.

[Ginesis]

In short yes! But, the PS4 wasn't made with this being the center, PS4 is relying on raw power. Xbox One was built with this in mind. Also OpenGL isn't DirectX. DirectX is the standard that everything else tries to imitate and follow.

[Rocky5]

What Ginesis said.

The PS4 can do tiled resources, but at the expense of GPU/CPU cycles & maybe more memory.

The XB1 it would seem was built to take advantage of these, with custom hardware to take the grunt off the GPU/CPU & free up resources/cycles.

So in the end both systems can do it, just one can do it easier than the other.

Also DX takes a lot of the hard work away from the devs, not sure if OpenGL does the same.

Tiled resources, I can't wait for, imagine a game where everything you look at its super high rez, yet running on nothing more than 16mbs of ram, mind would boggle. The new Halo will probably utilise this, if not then there bloody mad.

[DeadlyFire]

right and wrong my friend. PS4 uses PSSL a very custom blend low level API developed by Sony. Its core is based on Open GL or OpenES, but its features surpass DirectX11. Not sure how DX12 compares. I assume Sony can patch in the same elements if they see them useful.

Its also features a 2ndary wrapper API that is pretty comparable to OpenGL/DX. That works with the low level API or so I believe.

PS4 was designed to adapt to DirectX11/11.1 code very well I do believe. The advantage of fixed hardware means that the API can be adapted to do special tasks with the hardware pretty easily. So I wouldn't rule the PS4 out of doing the same things XB1 can do even with DX12.

@Ginesis
DX is Microsoft's API. Most games that run in Windows utilize it, but not all. OpenGL, OpenCL and so on are used elsewhere with Mac, and Linux, and also in Windows. Rage, and Minecraft are two examples of OpenGL based games.

Now with Steam Machines/SteamOS we could see some developers shift to a more universal API to put their games on more platforms with less cost for porting to new code. Well if SteamOS gains any momentum.

There is also AMD's Mantle which AMD says will be even better than OpenGL/DirectX for gaming on Linux/Windows.

[tee_bag242]

Here's the clencher..
No GPU yet supports Direct x 12. Not even Maxwell. So good luck with that on the X1.
Talk about hype. And direct x 12 isn't such a win for a console anyway. The only reason MS are starting to talk about direct X 12 is because PC optimization sucks, MS have been lazy in a PC gaming monopoly, and now Mantle has shown what optimization can do to a PC if developers give MS and the unoptimised mess that is direct X the middle finger.

[BG11579]

Plus, Steam OS and Steamboxes coming out, could putting more pressure onto MS to react.
If they loose their share of the market in the PC platform to a contestant, they will loose their position of dominance in the gaming sector overall.

[Prime157]

It's hard saying things like that to console gamers. Specifically, gamers who never/very rarely game on pc.

I saw it at gamestop when I worked there. They couldn't explain composite cables vs standard AV cables. One a##-wipe left in a puff when I was trying to make sure it was component (vs hdmi) by asking, "5 prongs or 1 plug?" He would just say, "HD ON MY WII?" (Not wii U) - the Wii doesn't natively support hdmi and he didn't know if needed component or hdmi for hd when some tvs go hdmi only. WHY CAN'T YOU TELL ME HDMI OR COMMITMENT OR COMPOSITE?

Tech savvy is rare, even amongst gamers...

[Prime157]

Yeah, I drank too much in the comment above, sue me.

[tee_bag242]

My god..all the disagree's. Shows how much people actually know around here

[BallsEye]

XO dx12 compatibile? Now this makes me think if all the rumors about tiled and mind blowing halo graphics might be true. Well, quantum break does look amazing (stated on official website it was all real time)

[tbone567]

Can't wait for tiled resources on Direct X 12 on Xbox one.

[lifeisgamesok]

Tiled Resources, ray tracing and more incoming :)

[metalsonar713]

also in terms of optimization on porting, xbox could get closer to pc in terms of architecture and allowing feature sets

[ProjectVulcan]

Tiled resources already exist in DirectX 11.2, which Xbox One currently supports as of right now. Tiled resources is similar to an existing extension in OpenGL....

Ray Tracing isn't something exclusive to any version of DirectX. You could do it on PS3, if you wanted to. Gran Turismo did. It was just pretty slow as it kinda is today. Ray Tracing is a bit of hyped up technique for games, but that's a different story.

Neither are being 'added' if you must know. This is an improved API for the console. It isn't unlocking some hidden wunder features the console couldn't necessarily already do if developers put the effort in.

Potentially it'll just make it easier for developers to access some features. The hardware isn't changing, what it can do isn't changing, just how developers can work with it is being modified.

For the better? Possibly. But it takes time for this sort of thing to mature. It takes time for PC developers to get their heads around it as well, often new versions of DirectX are under utilised and badly optimised for quite a while.

Such is the downsides of legacy support.

[imt558]

Ray Tracing??? Do you know what computing power needs to run Ray Tracing in full force???? Even the best high-end PC's can't run Ray Tracing today. Not yet.

[Zombro]

Wow a xbox comment with more agrees then disagrees how did you do it your amazing

[CharlesSwann]

And what a difference that will make. /s

[SonofGod]

Trust me, it will. This is the future of gaming on all platforms. It's not just about hardware anymore.

[cozomel]

^^^

clown

[Prime157]

Should I trust you if I'm a Buddhist, Hindu, or Muslim?

[Angeljuice]

@SonofGod

" Trust me, it will."

I'm sorry but I don't trust you at all as you are ranting and regurgitating hype about which you seem to know very little.

I intend to reserve the bestowing of my trust for those more worthy of my respect.

You have to remember that the reason mantle was created in the first place is because Microsoft did such a poor job of keeping software optimised on the PC.

The only reason the XBO has the hardware modifications to allow these features is because if it didn't it wouldn't be possible to run some of the features at all on the weaker silicone. Another case of "catch-up" rather than an advantage.

[Radentangr]

The cloud is not being used to create better lighting. Its being used to make adaptive AI and shared simulation. Anything that can be translated with a 3D space coordinate and timing will be used. Great if you want enemies that feel real, bad if you want amazing visuals.

[hollabox]

Alright, I'm going to hold off buying a new video card is DX12 is coming out later this year.

[Wikkid666]

Looks info will be released at GDC

[hollabox]

Yeah I wanted to buy AMD R9 290X until everybody started jacking up the price. My Nvidia GTX 670 is still going strong but can longer run games at or near 100 hz with all effects on. Well I'm glad I didn't waste $550 on tech soon to be replaced.

[zep]

does that mean old model highend card wont support dx12 like 780 ti?

[Raider69]

No!Nvidia just needs to release a driver for the GPU to support dx12!

[Volkama]

It'll be a while until PC games really make use of it, but if you don't upgrade every couple of years it's probably worth waiting.

If the xbox one supports dx12 then there is a strong chance AMD's r7 and r9 range if cards will too (they're far newer after all and drectx12 will be no secret to AMD) but best to wait a short time for confirmation.

Mantle boosts my PC performance significantly, if directx adopts similar principles it's great news all round.

[Dewitt]

Yes!!! Amazing news, can't wait to see what devs can do with the optimization now. This is why MS went with the faster RAM over bitrate.

SDK 2.0 was Direct X12 I see, which why they only did one tool upgrade since Nov.

[cozomel]

Its obvious you dont know what youre talking about. You literally just made all that up

[Dewitt]

ESRAM has a faster transfer rate, GDDR5 has a bigger pool to draw from and yes I know exactly what I am talking about since I am a computer engineer and developer for Azure. So I would I am more than qualified to make an opinion without some kid jumping all over me because he doesn't research.

[BG11579]

"This is why MS went with the faster RAM over bitrate."

Aww, man you made me laugh. Bubble up for funny.

[bmx_bandit]

ESRAM > GDDR5 in terms of speed.

[BG11579]

Yeah all 32MB off it...

[kickerz]

Niiice!!!! Can't wait to see the improvements

[Bonkerz]

O wow, not gonna lie i didnt think it was gonna happen but this is incredible news for X1 gamers. This is definitely gonna boost the heck out of the performance of everything, cant wait till GDC to hear more about this.

[OwnageDC650]

Perhaps Halo 5 will feature DirectX12?

[u got owned]

one can only hope :)

[christocolus]

Not just halo5

Halo2 anniversary
Forza horizon2
Quantum break
Fable legends
Crackdown3
Project Nagano
Phantum dust2
PGR
Gears of War
Sunset overdrive
Ryse2
Banjoe Kazooie3

And what ever titles still in the oven from 1st,2nd and 3rd party devs.(Hope they all come to pass)

[PrinceOfAllSaiyans]

Lol your pathetic. Making up games out your ass. Forza Horizon 2
Ryse 2
Banjoe Kazooie 3

Lmao man.

[DigitalRaptor]

Most of those games are either dreams from your head, or a good number of years away.

Is this really what you hope for?

[curtis92]

Genuine question: is that possible with the hardware that's in it? I thought hardware had to be optimized for a certain DX right out of the gate? Is that not right?

[lsujester]

You're right to some degree.

Now often times a newer API will offer improvements in pre-existing features, making it a bit more efficient or whatever. Those things can be applicable to previous generations of the API. But most of the time, any big new features have to be supported by the hardware.

For example Direct3D 11 added multi-threading features to 9 and 10 cards, but the tessellation it added was only available in new cards which were made with it in mind.

So being we know little about 12 is going to be, there's no way to know what it will improve. Chances are, though, there will be some sort of improvements that 11-based GPUs (X1 certainly) can use. Probably minor compared to what 11.2 already can do, if anything.

But will there be some game-changing new feature that only the X1 can use? Only in fanboys imaginations.

[Kingthrash360]

yeah you answerd some of my thoughts on the matter..
what does this mean for x1? not much, but something.
they may be over hyping this...like they do other things. but good news, no matter how small is better than bad news; or no news at all.

[lsujester]

If I had to guess, I'd say it's largely going to be making DX a lower level API in general, the so-called "coding close to the metal". If that's the case, it should theoretically decrease overhead a small bit on the X1.

All in all, I doubt it'll mean much, if anything, to the actual workings of the X1, but MS will advertise the hell out of it. Probably a move to bolster their own API versus OpenGL, which has been gaining some of its lost traction lately.

[TheRedButterfly]

@Isujester:

"But will there be some game-changing new feature that only the X1 can use? Only in fanboys imaginations."

I hope you realize that Microsoft made the XO to work around DX12. Do you honestly believe that DX 12 has been cooked up completely separately from the XO over the past 2-4 years they've both been in development??

Also, https://twitter.com/DirectX...
DirectX 12 seems to have a sweet spot for Xbox One.

Also, http://schedule.gdconf.com/...
"For nearly 20 years, DirectX has been the platform used by game developers to create the fastest, most visually impressive games on the planet.

However, you asked us to do more. You asked us to bring you even closer to the metal and to do so on an unparalleled assortment of hardware. You also asked us for better tools so that you can squeeze every last drop of performance out of your PC, tablet, phone and console."

Don't expect MS to be sharing its baby with the competition. They fully intend to keep this exclusive to Windows/Xbox (<- It's in the freakin' name! "DirectX Box") One.

[lsujester]

Everything you just wrote pretty much reaffirms what I have already said about them coding closer to the metal. I imagine most of what they are doing is making the API considerably lower level than previously before, which is something the consoles are largely doing already. It's also precisely what AMD is trying to do with Mantle.

"I hope you realize that Microsoft made the XO to work around DX12. Do you honestly believe that DX 12 has been cooked up completely separately from the XO over the past 2-4 years they've both been in development??"

No, I don't believe that, but that doesn't actually mean that 12 is a huge upgrade over 11.2. While I don't doubt there may be some new features, I highly doubt it's anything revolutionary, as do most of the people talking about it. Nothing they've said leads me to believe there are any really big features added. This really sounds like a shift to a "closer to the metal" API, which is something the consoles already do.

Either way, if AMD is indeed in the loop, as I imagine they are, then their GPUs could already support 12. Being as consoles are much more closed than PCs are, then developers naturally already have better control over the hardware. DX12 may make it a bit more efficient, but I doubt it's anything OpenGL isn't already doing in some form or fashion.

[mhunterjr]

I would imagine that DX12 would have been in the plans all along. Any hardware needs would already be in place.

[Qrphe]

I don't doubt the Xbox will fully support DX12, because it'd be silly if it didn't.

[brads4]

What if.... MS planned for this all along and all the hardware support is already in place.......

[MysticStrummer]

With this coming so soon after launch, I'd be pretty surprised if it wasn't planned for. Only time will tell what sort of difference maker it will be though. Looks like not much is known about it yet.

http://www.extremetech.com/...

[monkeyDzoro]

Dat secret sauce though !! LoL

[Borma]

This will end up being great news for Xbox One owner's. Instead of the whole Cloud jargon nonsense, imagine if they touted this instead as a way to change the Xbox's graphics to greater heights.

[Gr1mmyshadows]

can somebody explain to me what exactly this will do, Im not to tech savvy

[WeAreLegion]

It will help developers make games faster and possibly improve certain aspects of the graphics. Don't expect much. This is more a nice thing for developers.

[aerisbueller]

this allows xbox one fanboys to stop saying 'Titanfall' for 10 minutes. This is supposed to be a much bigger boost than the last upgrade from 'the cloud' to 'Titanfall'

[jay2]

Ah, so that's why the xbox one can't do 1080P yet. it needs DX12.The tables are sure to turn with this and cloud...........

[ape007]

great news

[gameon1985]

So the secret sauce is real, I think a certain group of people owe Mistermediax a apology lol.

[u got owned]

lets not get ahead of ourself. XD

[jmc8888]

That isn't secret sauce, and everything inside DX12, will be copied in OpenGL.

So in other words, whatever it brings, both sides will be bringing it.

One through DX12, the other through a newer version of OpenGL.

[gameon1985]

You sound a little scared there.

[jmc8888]

I've always stated if Microsoft gets down to making good 1st party exclusive games that I think I might enjoy and lowers the price, I'd buy one. Did DirectX 12 impact this? Nope.

I also have an i7 [email protected] with a GTX 670. I even have a Wii U.

Progress doesn't scare me, but you see I don't live in hopium world, and I like to actually analyze things.

DX12 isn't secret sauce, I know that for a FACT. It's all these people grasping for hope that is simply sad. You guys/gals are better then this. This was expected, and no it isn't a game changer. People are going to feel awfully silly when you realize this.

You see you may think DX12 is something no one else will have, but the fact is, DX12 isn't the only game in town, and with PSSL the PS4 version of OpenGL, any new features can easily be adapted to the PS4. Even Steambox will use OpenGL.

This DirectX 12 also will help PC's more then consoles. Sorry. Even Mantles's performance gains on the PC are meh, and the better your CPU is, and higher it is overclocked, the LESS it boosts it!

Remember folks, the GPU from both the PS4 and Xbox One are from the same lines. Just the PS4 got the beefier one. They have the same CPU.

So why exactly would I be scared?

I didn't buy my PS4 or Wii U because of power, and I sure and the hell wouldn't be buying an Xbox One because of DX12 and any single digit effects it might have in increasing performance. Performance which can be copied and applied to anyone else.

But when I buy something, I do want it to have a certain level of power for the price and right now I can't justify a $115 graphics power in a $499 box by a company that pissed all over my consumer rights.

I've long been looking forward to 22nm Maxwell or Volta stacked memory lines for the upcoming Nvidia graphics cards for PC's, or ATI's equivalent...because you see, unlike you, I don't care who puts out what, as long as they aren't pissing down my back and tell me it's raining.

I don't bend over for ANY corporation.

So you go on thinking whatever you want to, I'll stick right here in reality.

When this blows over and the PS4 still has a lead over the XB1 and PC's still have a massive lead over both, and Wii U is still underneath them all.

I'm happy with reality. When I want to play a graphics wonder game, I'll get it on PC. When I want console exclusives I'll play consoles. When I want to play a FPS, I generally will choose a console version.

It seems to me that you thinking I'm scared simply shows your desire to want to be right about this. I fully expected DX12 on Xbox One. You didn't. It's a shock to you. Not to me.

I fully know it doesn't change things. None of this means Microsoft didn't completely screw up the XB1 and somehow treated it's former fanbase like utter crap.

So how does this news give me any reason to be scared? Because it's on a console YOU think I'll never buy? Because somehow I only game on a PS4, when I don't? Because I somehow think a PS4 is powerful?

Just you wait and see what this DirectX 12 does. I know for a fact it isn't what you think. How do you translate that to someone who doesn't realize this? Sadly with every person who falls prey to more fake hype, it can only result in another crash down to reality. Just remember folks, you do it to yourself.

[dantesparda]

OpenGL copy it from DX12?! try the other way around and Gameon keep showing your ignorance and even greater fanboyism, it makes you look good and smart, ....NOT!

[OsirisBlack]

Actually the new DirectX12 is them trying to get closer to what OpenGL already allows. Sometimes I cannot stand this site you got that many disagrees for stating what is largely true. I am sure they will be able to code closer to the metal with the new directx and it will have some new features. However whatever new features they have will be reproduced in OpenGl..... this is a FACT and has been since forever.

It will not make the XB1's gpu more powerful and able to compete with the PS4's it will however make coding and programming on the machine much easier and we should see some improvement in graphical fidelity even if it is small. The only problem is the things Sony's ice team has cooked up make this largely a moot point.

I say this as an owner of XB1,PS4 and the Wii U.... I really wish Microsoft would have gone with a much better GPU and just dumped the Kinect. No matter how they fiddle with the software/firmware they cannot get past that horrid GPU they are using.

[DigitalRaptor]

These delusions cannot be made up, nor can they be healthy.

See someone. Seriously.

[GamerXGATT]

According to insiders, DX 11.2 and 12 make the 32 MB extra ram like 6GB GDDR5.... wonder what that means in real world performance.

[dantesparda]

Its hyperbole, wont mean much in real world perf, you'll see.

[purp13m0nk3y]

Bha ha ha. Good one. Sarcasm....... right?

[OsirisBlack]

Please do not fall fot that, it is good to have hope but lets not fall for hyperbole and cloud power V.2

[aerisbueller]

sigh. So many people say this nonsense. I don't even think the original speaker was trying to outright lie, but believing 32MB can be like 6GB shows such a profound ignorance of the way ram, graphics, compression, and memory addressing work it's unbelievable.

They could have access to 6GB IF that wasn't already taken up by everything else in the game, and xbox one's 18 operating systems. Aside from that it's not like having 6GB at a time, it's a specific technique for tiling that allows you stream in textures quickly enough that will help for specific scenarios. For instance, if your 6GB was taken up by various different texture details of everything then it would be able to handle things like zooming into a guys jacket and get to an insane detail level, because it's loading in new textures as you get close. This is definitely very cool, but it's not a magical MS secret sauce, opengl has it's own version, before that RAGE engine had a shitty software based version. And most importantly, in no way shape or form is it the same thing as actually having 6GB of faster RAM.

[CJDUNCAN]

For those of us that don't understand the significance as it relates to gaming, I take it that this will boost performance drastically?

[DoesUs]

No. usually new revisions of DX (and Open GL for that matter) contain new GFX features. At the end of the day the hardware is still only able to achieve so much, software/tools only get you so far.

[jmc8888]

It can bring efficiencies. Like DX11.1 I think raised the limit of certain shaders in various ways, so you could add more with less overhead cost.

But remember, both can upgrade them, and OpenGL which is what Sony uses, always has a comparable version.

So I don't see the big news, I was fully expecting the next DX version to be implemented into the XBox One, and the equivalent to be implemented in the PS4.

[Slothnut]

If you honestly think that dx12 isn't going to make huge increases in performance over dx11.2 you are in massive titan sized denial.

[metalsonar713]

this could be huge

[mrpsychoticstalker]

What is directx12?

[JBSleek]

The successor to DirectX11.2

[pyramidshead]

your new chamber of secrets ;).

[LAWSON72]

Sounds like it maybe good news for us PC gamers, since that may mean we will not need new GPUs

[russo121]

With dx12 xbone, without any doubt, will do ray tracing at it's minimum.
This is a full PR bullshit and the cows will / are following.

Edit: Sorry for the cows.

[Software_Lover]

Meh. I seriously doubt if it will make a significant difference. If anything, it would put more strain on the GPU side of things. Here is hoping I'm wrong though.

[Dewitt]

Ray tracing and tile resources take strain off the GPU and pull from the faster RAM. Allowing GPU to focus on more specific graphic based optimizations.

[OpieWinston]

Your name is such a contradiction. Everytime I see anything about the power of DirectX you dismiss it...Clearly you've got some issues and don't know wtf a Software Lover is.

[Software_Lover]

??????????

This is the first DirectX article that I have ever seen on N4G so I'm not sure I know what you're talking about.

[cozomel]

ssshhhh, dont say things like that around here, there be fanboys in these woods. Oh to late, hence all the disagrees

And Dewitt keep showing everybody your ignorance, and your pom poms

[kickerz]

Software_hater... lol
You should be saying - "damn dx12 you are so fine, I'm gonna buy u some flowers and invite you into my house for some software lovin" lol

[SliceOfTruth888]

Anyone who thinks Microsoft didnt have this in its plans for Xbone is just pathetic. And I am not here to be like OMGZZZ XBOX >>>>>> PS4....but you just have to use common sense. We have not even come close to seeing what PS4 or Xbone can do and if you think they have been maxed you are 14 years old

[jmc8888]

Yeah it's something I already thought was going to happen.

Still doesn't change my position on the Xbox One.

Yes as I've stated since the beginning, better efficiencies will improve the overall quality of the graphics, but indeed every day even the top end PC with 3 Titans can be maxed out.

Raw power and efficiencies are two different ways to describe power.

This won't increase the Xbox's power. The PS4 can also get the same gains through a new version of OpenGL.

But effectually both will do more with less, and so it it is 'moar' without more raw power.

I'm actually surprised how many people are surprised. I thought this was a foregone conclusion.

[skoorydook]

Genuine question here to the more tech savy posters.

How does this improve things greatly ?

Not trolling or trying to get a rise, genuinely don't know.

[AutoCad]

DirectX is a performance interface that the xbox utilizes. It's designed to handle processes executed by your GPU. In theory, as DirectX is optimized, it's designed to get a little bit more out of the hardware you're using, namely graphics.

for comparison between DX10 and 11.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_3...

[skoorydook]

Should see an improvement then, thanks good stuff

[bleedsoe9mm]

i'm with skoorydook , i thought directx was there as a underlying uniformed platform so devs to program to , and made it so they don't have to worry about different hardware configurations . they optimize to direct x and direct x handles the hardware configurations . i could be complete wrong , not sure how it help the xb1 since all the hardware is identical . i guess it would make the porting much easier if its the same as the pc version

[Lulz_Boat]

yup, i remember this benchmark with the dragon, use DX10 vs DX11 on THE SAME HARDWARE, and apart the better looking graphics, you will get a good 20fps LESS. nice uh?

[OsirisBlack]

It basically allows you to get more with less, this is good news for XB1 and PC owners. It is also good news for PS4 owners as whatever features are added through DX12 will be copied in OpenGL. Basically win all around.

[Convas]

I take it all back, I just now realized the significance of what I'm looking at here. Confirmation that DirectX 12 will be utilized in Xbox One.

It is the called (DirectX)box One, after all, so it's safe to assume that this was MS' aim all along.

Which also means ... we could be looking at a reality where MisterX was ... *gulp* ... right.

[KingKionic]

Indeed good sir. Dx12 will breathe in a new era of past pixels and stitch tapestry. It will redefine 1080p as you know it.

[jmc8888]

Not really.

Rumors about DX12, and it being logical to be implemented in the next xbox, now known as Xbox One, have been around the internet for YEARS.

For MisterX, a broken clock is right twice a day.

I remember one videocard I had accepted upgrades to like 3-4 different DirectX upgrades. I think it was like DirectX 7-9C.

..and again, DirectX, while being the most popular, is not what Sony uses, they use Open GL, and if you look around DirectX and Open GL copy each other.

So this isn't an advantage to one or the other. If anything the PS4 has more power to leverage the newer Open GL features that DX12 will also incorporate.

[Convas]

Your fireman-style damage control is hilariously refreshing.

Please, continue to look even more desperate by plastering your "OpenGL will be updated to match too!" arguments as far as your bubbles will allow.

[cozomel]

@convas

Wow, you actually think MisterX is right, wow, just wow! That says everything about you. And dont forget, the PS4 has the same HW, same CPU and the better GPU and better memory system, and whether you like it or not, any feature that DX12 might bring can easily be done on Sony's custom API which is even more to the metal than DX12 will ever be, so there is no advantage over the PS4. But whatever helps you sleep at nigh, right? Man you fanboys are just being strung along on your futile hope

[TheGrimReaper]

No, OpenGL can't copy things from DirectX!
You liar!!!
All normals would be inverted!!!

/s

Some will understand, most will not :D

[pyramidshead]

He was right about what, exactly? o.O

[TristanPR77]

I just hope that the fanboys dont start believing this is a magical secret sauce that will now miraculously make the xbone on par with the PS4.

[urwifeminder]

Wow DX12 playing flight sim x back in the day having the dx10 preview was a massive leap , exciting news indeed try to down play it down but this is pc next gen gear.

[IRNMUNKEY]

Also the Xbox is designed for doing tiled resources in hardware. Open GL can copy technique but ps4 is not designed the same way meaning its tiled resources would be done in software which would actually put more strain on the CPU/GPU. So in fact this will be a huge advantage for Xbox going forward.

[Animal Mutha 76]

Nought to do with PS4 this story.

Xbox is a good console and I think it has a few surprises for us yet. DX12 is a good start.

[maniacmayhem]

If this is true then I guess it would make sense why MS didn't max out their Xbox One with hardware equal to the PS4. They knew that DirecX 12 was coming and would be compatible with the X1 and boost its performance.

It'll be interesting to actually see the games coming to the Xbox One that are using DX12. Lets see if this will give the much needed resolution boost everyone is so worried about.

[donnieboy]

YES!

[BX81]

I wonder if this is what major Nelson was eluding to a while back when he said he looks forward to the truth coming out in reference to the gap between the ps4/xb1? Either way well find out at gdc.

[donnieboy]

lol and they said it wasn't coming.....

[koliosis]

The true power of the Xboxone will be awaken

[Whitey2k]

Dude it wont over take the ps4 in power u can't magically make a weak card into a power house and there will always be a performance gap but in sense there would be a gain in performance likewise to ps4 as its also getting performance sdk boost to

[Cryptcuzz]

I agreed with you and I don't know why!
KULACHI!!!

[sypher]

lol has anyone even bothered clicking the site? why am I getting phishing errors on it?

Really dubious until it is confirmed. Would laugh if it was fake.

[hello12]

Seems to be true going by this.

https://twitter.com/DirectX...

[sypher]

Yeh I saw that. If true, cool :) GDC gonna be interesting this year!

[ZainreFang]

Oooooh! Nice.

[hello12]

Mistermedia was talking about Raytracing back in 2012.

And to my surprise Phil Spencer admitted they were experimenting with it for x box 1, just recently.

QUOTE
We’ve done experiments with real-time ray-tracing. A ton of potential with this tech, amazing visuals.”

The x box 1 shouldn't in reality be able to handle Directx 12. It further adds prove that Microsoft have kept some secrets about the x box 1 until now.

[quenomamen]

800p here we come, whoo hoooo !!!!!!!!!!!

[ALLWRONG]

Killzone

[4logpc]

Not gonna like, I laughed.

[inf3cted1]

haha burned!

[Guwapo77]

I can't see how this is a plus solely for XboxOne. Directx api are used universally. Xbox One is a slightly weaker version of the PS4. If the apis prove to be faster than what Sony currently uses, what is to stop them from using Directx 12 also?

I'm also looking up on the internet to see if the GPUs in these consoles even support directx 12 or they will accept a modified version of it.

[OpieWinston]

Sony is using Open GL
Microsoft OWNS DIRECT X

That may be what stops Sony from acuiring rights to Direct X.

I've been saying this for months that Microsoft is one of the lead software companies...If people think they can pull off Ray tracing and tile resourcing to the point that it effects performance.

People said the same about how the X1 cloud would work when it's able to off load tasks which allows for more RAM usage on local client thanks to dedicated servers.

PC/Xbox will be taking advantage of Direct X12.
Direct X > Open GL any day of the week.

[bmx_bandit]

I said it before: DirectX12 will have functions embedded helpin Xbox putting a 1080p Frame in the 32mb Esram. So i guess 1080p will be standard end of year.

[rainslacker]

Looking up the GPU's isn't always sufficient in this case. Both consoles have modified versions of those GPU's, so it's quite possible that MS foresaw adding this stuff and they implemented DX12 features in their custom chip that have been available for a while. Nothing that MS is offering is really that new.

It'll probably improve performance due to being more efficient, and add a couple features that aren't available currently. It isn't the magic sauce that many XBox fans seem to be thinking it is on this thread though. The number of disagrees to people that are explaining the technical details in this thread is almost laughable. It's like they don't even want to accept the reality.

What it comes down to is that unless MS has some secret API feature in there that hasn't been in OpenGL for a few years now, it's not going to make up for the power discrepancy. DX12 will see more advantage in the PC market, in particular competing with Mantle. Overall though, since devs can already get close to the metal on consoles, new API's will only make it easier to do so on consoles, and not necessarily give a huge performance gain to a talented programmer.

[Guwapo77]

@Opie - everyone knows who makes and owns Directx. Directx has been the dominant force in the PC scene for many a years. AMD and Nvidia has used it for a very long time once it became the standard. Both consoles run AMD chips which means both systems are very capable of running it IF the hardware supports it. Would Sony use it - probably a better chance of a monkey flying to the moon.

@rainslacker - I agree. The new API could help but nothing astronomical like some guys are forecasting. Consoles are already extremely efficient, none of the excessive programs running in the back ground like PCs have. If they can squeeze another 10% I'd be very impressed. If anything in the ballpark of 30% I'd be mind "effed"...

[shotime97]

Like I said before. Never count Microsoft out

[Man_Son]

It's funny how everybody know everything on here

[Nocando]

I agree, so many armchair developers and engineers coming out to downplay this. But to be fair I am not qualified to hype it either. I just hope it bodes well for my system of choice, so I remain cautiously optimistic.

[Ashby_JC]

I dont even pretend to know what this tech stuff means. I work on bikes for a living and when I come home whats inside doesnt matter much....

...Just keep making FUN games like Plants v Zombies GW and I am good!!

[n4rc]

Lol.. I'm in the same boat, I'm a millwright.. I keep a recycling plant running, I dont know nearly enough about this stuff to try and debate it..

Yet a quick scroll through the comments and it turns out I know a hell of a lot more then most that ARE trying to debate it.. Lol

[Ch1d0r1]

Some of us are just stupid fan boys really.

[rainslacker]

Goes for both sides. I see a couple people actually explaining it properly but getting massive amounts of disagrees because they're asking for people to exercise constraint and realize this isn't quite the huge performance boost that some people want it to be.

[josephayal]

powerful machine

[Ashby_JC]

DELETED

[kakashi81]

Good for ms.

[badboy776]

What does this mean??

[BX81]

It means twinkies have no experation date.

[Ch1d0r1]

You Xboners swear the PS4 wont get better, like if its already at it's peak. Microsoft develops new tech for building games and you all get wet. PS4 will keep improving and you shall eat our dust every damn time! Now go play titan fall and have fun!

[Tedakin]

Go play.... uh... I can't think of anything. :)

[n4rc]

And you Sony fanboys keep imagining crap that nobody said..

Were talking about Xbox improving, who is saying the ps4 won't as well?

Its like me saying nobody knows Xbox sales for 2014 and to a Sony fanboy, that means I said Xbox is outselling ps4..

True story.. Lol

[BX81]

Snarf snarf!

[Raider69]

Just some notes,you people know that DX12 only takes the overhead on the CPU side right...you people know that DX12 is still going to be a close enviroment to work on right....?!!Now you people know that OPEN GL its actually equal or indeed is Open Source,and for every versions of DX that have been released with ALL is new features theres also a new version of Open GL that comes along and give developers the same or even better options/tools,better yet Freedom.So please do the math before getting euphoric!DX12 is actually late to the party if we start comparing it to the latest Open GL improvements,and let me end by saying this DX11 was release in 2008 but you guys no what;its been used by less than 25% of the games that have been released from 2008 to 2013.Again make the math and try to figure when will games ever going to take full advantage of DX12 in the next years.

[lemoncake]

Great news that xbox one will support directx 12

[Tedakin]

I'm convinced the Xbox One was released 3-4 months before it was ready. Direct X 12. The firmware updates. Twitch. Titanfall. We've been playing a Beta unit.

[n4rc]

They all are..

Ps4 didn't even play blurays out of the box..

Development never stops.. So picking a date to release will always mean plans aren't quite ready..

3-4 years from now we'll still be getting updates.. If you consider work to be done or its still beta testing, then we haven't had a finished retail console for a few generations now

And to the comments about being rushed, does everyone now forget having to rewrite the entire system after e3?

[srd4484]

I do recall Pennelo saying something about you must be crazy to think MS would give up 30% advantage to the PS4. And that they have the smartest guys, the same guys who invented direct x. Hmm. I guess he was hinting this all along.

[srd4484]

And don't forget. There were rumors that XB1 wasn't suppose to be released until 2014 sometime. They rushed it out to match Sony. So they put in DX11 until they were ready to unlock DX12 in the unit.

[killzone619]

good catch.

[kstuffs]

Here's the video that mentions what he said: http://videogamesandnews.co... This is either the biggest bluff in in console history, or that MS does in fact have a secret.

"September 2013: Albert Penello

I’m not dismissing raw performance. I’m stating as I have stated from the beginning that the performance delta between the two platforms is not as great as the raw numbers lead the average consumer to believe. There are things about our system architecture not fully understood.

People DO understand that Microsoft has some of the smartest graphics programmers IN THE WORLD. We CREATED DirectX, the standard APIs that everyone programs against. So while people laude Sony for their [hardware] skills, do you really think we don’t know how to build a system optimized for maximizing graphics for programmers? Seriously?

There is no way we’re giving up a 30%+ advantage to Sony. I’m not saying they haven’t built a good system – I’m merely saying that anyone who wants to die on their sword over this 30%+ power advantage is going to be fighting an uphill battle over the next 10 years.

I’m stating that not everyone knows all the facts. There are still a lot of important details about the platforms that are still unknown."

[killzone619]

so will this help bridge the performance gap between ps4 and xbox one?

[feraldrgn]

No, it may just optimize what the Xbox has, but the Xbox will stay at the same specs.

[srd4484]

We don't know exactly yet. Wait till March 20th for more details.

[rainslacker]

DirectX is an API and toolset that makes certain tasks easier for the developer to perform tasks in a quicker fashion than having to write their own code to do something which the API itself makes standard. It's an important thing for the developer, and overall makes it easier to work with the machines themselves.

DirectX, or OpenGL for that matter, will not make a GPU suddenly be able to do something that it couldn't do before. It will improve performance over the current version just because it'll likely be more efficient, particularly for existing DX features in 11.2, at least in most cases.

On PC it also acts as an intermediary so the developer can write to the API instead of the hardware, which is difficult on PC due to the vast array of options available in the PC market. Such functions are not really necessary in a console though since they're a closed system.

In answer to your question though, no, it will not bridge the performance gap. While efficient API's and drivers can make up for weaker hardware, stronger hardware can always out muscle weaker hardware, particularly in a closed system such as a console.

There is a caveat however. If MS modified their GPU to work very efficiently with what they had planned on DX12(likely in the works for a couple years now), then it could definitely increase performance. However, that's just speculation at the moment.

In any case, Sony isn't going to rest on it's laurels and will upgrade their toolset as well. And a lot of the stuff available is available in both OpenGL and DirectX.

[MCTJim]

I think people dont understand what they new tools they are about to unveil will do for the X1. Tiled resources are not new, but if anyone bothered to look at the granite SDK which will most likely be utilized by MS on the X1, it will improve performance in what seemed like their plan all along. I personally think that the X1 was rushed 1 year ahead of schedule to compete with Sony's PS4. The PS4 rightly so is doing quite well. Sony should be extremely happy with their system sales. I feel right now that what we are going to start seeing is why MS went with a different type of harware set up. There are many chips on the X1 and subsystems on the X1 that DF couldnt explain and which many have dismissed. I look forward to what they will be bringing later this year and next year when this new SDK will begin to blossom.

[Gamer-40]

Very good news. X1 cool console.

[cbuc1125]

Sorry if im late to this one guys but OMG this is MEGATON!!!
Oh wait.... Nah it isnt.

[FrigidDARKNESS]

It begins time to raise the victory flag true salvation has come Xbox one is a beast.

[pyramidshead]

lmfao, frigiddarkness is back in action! how's that kaveri chip aye? ;)

[FrigidDARKNESS]

Old frigid is back things are gonna be different around here.

[annus]

Software doesn't make the hardware better. Anything that can be done via DX can be done via OpenGL and/or other libraries or code.

All this means is it is slightly easier for developers to implement, it's not going to be a game changer.

[Azzanation]

Software DOES make the hardware better, The hardware doesn't make the software better. Might want to research that. Iv been running an old 6970 AMD (2010)card for years but has had its software updates to keep the card up-to-date with the latest games. DX12 will make the XB1 better and being exclusive to Windows/Xbox you can bet your house, you will start seeing better quality games in the near future.

[annus]

Do you understand what you are saying? How can it make the hardware better? Can it increase performance? Of course, it can't physically change the hardware. The performance of the hardware is ALWAYS going to stay the same, which is worse than the PS4.

Yes, you can have better software that can theoretically better than software on faster hardware, but two near identical pieces of software, with one running on weaker hardware, will ALWAYS be worse.

Edit: Also, hardware does make software better. Go time the same bit of code on slow and fast hardware, notice how the fast one destroys it? Isn't this just logical sense? Why would anybody ever update hardware if it was just up to software?

[Azzanation]

DX12 will make a huge difference in programming. A lot of people forget that DX11 was out in 2008. DX12 will help the PC and XB1 a lot with its games.

[larrysdirtydrawss]

all systems gradually improve sdk/tools,and sonys tools are the best... no system is getting added power,this particular sdk update for ms isn't gonna give it more shading power/texture units ect.. it will make things a lil more efficient

[Azzanation]

If the tools make it more efficient to use, then you will be seeing more textures and shading because there finding ways to do them without using as much power. WTF are you talking about Sony has the best tools? Lol the PS 1 2 n 3 were all horrible to make games for. PS4 is better but not that much better. The XB1 is STILL easy to make games for regardless how easy the PS4 is today.

[kaozgamer]

Soo how many console games have you made so far?

[SoulSercher620]

This is good for Xbox One. It should be squeezing out as much performance as possible.

[Slothnut]

Dx12! I'm already impressed with my X1 but that's awesome. I was just thinking the other day when I saw a dx12 ad that its too bad xbox1 can't use dx12. Did anyone notice if there is a release date?

[larrysdirtydrawss]

theres nothing soyt cant do in their tools/sdk,something you say may strain the sony gpu a little more(supposedly),well its gpu is easily more powerful,it can handle a lil more strain

[purp13m0nk3y]

Wow. Just wow.

I just read through these posts and honestly don't even know where to start. It blows my mind how gullible and impressionable some people are.

You people can't truly believe that DX12 will make a massive difference to the Xbox1's performance? Really? WOW!!

Now I'm not denying that it will not bring improved features and improved efficiency. That is just common sense. But this happens with each new iteration of DX.

As a PC gamer for many years I can honestly say that I have never seen a huge jump in performance moving to a new version of DX. Maybe 10% if I had a brand new card that was being gimped by outdated DX feature set. But it was more about adding more advanced graphical effects and more effective AA/AF solutions.

In fact more often than not, the release of a new version of DX would mean lower frame rates on my gaming rig. The new advanced effects and more advanced AA were always more demanding to run.

This is not really anything to get excited about from a gamers point of view. It won't equate to massive improvements in graphics/performance overnight. The people who should be excited are the Devs. It will give them a more advanced and efficient tool set to create games. It will allow then to more easily make the most of the Xbox1's hardware.

Seriously though (and I'm saying this as a fellow Xbox1 owner and long time supporter of MS) please don't get your hopes up that this will make a big difference to Xbox1 games. We are talking small efficiency gains and more advanced tools for the devs.

The other thing to realize is that DX12 is primarily for to the PC gaming market, where the next gen of PC GPU's will be built to take full advantage of the advanced features and code.

The Xbox1 doesn't run DX12 in the same way that a PC does. By this I mean DX is a middle ware designed to allow developers to build games in a framework that allows the engine to scale across a huge multitude of different hardware configurations.

The Xbox1 is locked down as far as hardware goes. It version of DX is a highly customized version written specifically for the Xbox1's hardware. It probably shares very little with the version of DX12 that will run on PC's. It serves the same purpose, to act as a framework for devs to built apon, but it would be a much leaner, more efficient version as it's written specifically for the Xbox1 and the Xbox1 alone.

The PS4's version of the OpenGL framework is the same thing. It's based on the same OpenGL suit used by PC devs but again completely written from the ground up to make the most of The PS4'S hardware.

Here is a better explanation of exactly what an API is (OpenGL DX fall into this category).

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/W...
As you can see, an API (DX in this case) is simply a software suite. It improves with each iteration. But it is not capable of unlocking some magical untapped performance. The Xbox1 (and indeed the PS4) will see many versions/updates to their APIs over their lives. Each new version will bring improved efficiency and extra features. But each new version will only net small gains. You will never see a massive jump in performance with an API update.

[Illusive_Man]

Here is a very simple example for your long ass wall of text.

You got two cars.

Car A has an engine that is 500hp

Car B has an engine that is 400hp.

Clearly Car A is more powerful, so that means it cannot be beaten right?

Wrong.

Car B can do several things to negate the power advantage of Car A.

- Aerodynamics
- Tighter Handling
- More responsive braking
- A better "driver"

It's really that simple.

[purp13m0nk3y]

Sorry dude, not only did you completely miss the point of my post (did you even read it?) But you're analogy is complete shite. Comparing cars to a computer system is idiotic. Do you honestly think what you said makes any sense whatsoever?

I've tried to logically and intelligently argue a point using facts and a little research, but it seems I'd be better off just spouting random crap I know nothing about. Seem to carry the same weight as a legitimate comment on this site.

Whatever. Believe in the magic cloudz, the super DX12 that will unlock the ESRAMs secret potential that will allow tiled resources to stream... bla bla ....

Come back and see me in 12 months when the Xbox1 had not only failed to narrow the performance gap between the PS4, but has fallen further behind thanks to the PS4's GPGPU compute capabilities and it's incredibly ease of development.

[urwifeminder]

Ha at the wall of text comments all I know is from dx9 to 10 I went wow then when I got the crysis 2 dx11 patch again it was wow with 12 coming I think it may be more subtle but still bring the wow.

[Playstationologist]

price drop is the only thing will sell this underpowered system. PS4 is far weaker than it should be but at least it can pull off 1080p. XBone is just a pathetic pos, show me a good looking 1080p Halo and I might pay $300 - $400.

[iNFAMOUZ1]

Shi* just got real bro

[Illusive_Man]

The Sony fanboys want to believe it is a secret sauce, that MS will intentionally lie about the expanded feature set. MS is a multi-billion software company. Sony is a failing hardware maker. Gaming is about their only division that is doing well.

Microsoft knew exactly what they were doing when they built the XBOX ONE. The system is all about the most out of the hardware, pure efficiency. Everything from ESRAM, DX11.2, Choice to go DDR3 over GDDR5, UI, Cloud, Move Engines, better Sound Processor, higher clocked CPU, they were all calculated moves.

Just keep watching. BTW PS4 is not capable of doing tiling in hardware. It can do the old trick of partially resident textures in software though. The results are not anywhere close. Xbox One can also do PRT.

[Slothnut]

Halo 5 on dx12 is making me sleep easy at night. Can u imagine masterchief and dx12 and Cortana and the new warthog and banshee. Halo theme song blaring out of 7.1 while I wear my replica masterchief helmet and yell this is for captain Keyes u bastards!......too much? Whatever I'm excited for next gen halo. It's going to be a thing of beauty. If not only to rub it in sonys face when it wins game of the year.

[kryteris]

News flash.. DirectX 12 comes to Xbox One, a brand new gaming console based off of DX 11.2 capable hardware.

[Lawboy2]

For this not to be that big of a deal...some ppl sure have there panties in a bunch

[Qwagy UK]

Another Microsoft BS selling point, the card used is not a native DX12 card therefore will only use a few commands, owners of the Xbox one will see little difference although I hope for there is a performance improvement but it wont be a 50% boost probably 5 to 10 fps difference, every little count though!

[mysteryraz11]

consoles optimize and improve because the developers know what hardware they are using and can focus and improve it as time goes on, hopefully this improves xbox ones performance and allows for more 1080p games

[StrelnikovD]

ps4 dx 11 vs. XBOX ONE DX 12

[Mister_G]

PS4 doesn't use DX, does it?

I thought it used OpenGL.

Correct me if I'm wrong, I'd like to know for certain.

[Neoninja]

You're not wrong, the Ps4 uses OpenGL.

[jimbobbeers]

I'm so intrigued.

[firefly69]

Yes developers are going to lose time and money optimizing the Xboxone games to 100% just because they have acess to some features of DX12.Sorry but that is not going to happen if they can make or port a game on or to the PS4 faster and cheaper due to better hardware and tools on the PS4 they will not lose time and money on the Xboxone just in order to squeeze the maximum of what the machine could actually achieve.Time is money the PS4 is just a better machine with better hardware and tools it always be the main console to produce the games on and then scale back to what the Xboxone can achieve,and this will be done without losing time and money trying to fully optimize the Xboxone;im talking regarding multiplat games.Xbox fanboys are so delusional they have to try a find a way in there heads to make them think that what they payed for an underpower console is in fact valid.

[HaydenJameSmith]

I think your delusional and are just trying to convince yourself the Xbone is Garbage and PS4 will dominate forever...

[aragon]

Does anyone understand what this will do I don't.

[Mister_G]

Might help close the gap to PS4 (technologically), until PS4 gets improved API's then the gap will be back to as it is now, pretty much.

[feraldrgn]

It's as if people think the PS4 will be frozen in time.
This will optomize the software for the Xbone & make better use of what it has.
It's a software update that's being made out to be more than it is.

But the PS4's hardware is better & it's impossible for the Xbone to change that.

The PS4 will get software updates too, which will just reset the gap, or make the gap greater due to the better hardware (more efficient use of the software).

[Tedakin]

I don't think many are saying it's going to catch up to PS4. That's just more garbage Sony fanboys make up in their heads in this fake war.

[MasterCornholio]

So Mr.X and his Zealots are Sony fanboys?

First time I've heard that.

[iceman06]

Have you read ANY comments on here? It's like MS has decided to unlock an entire new console hidden within the Xbox One. Yeah, that was a bit over the top. But, if you don't think that people aren't expecting "HUGE" jumps that will "close the gap"...reference the front page of comments. There are several pretty tech savvy people who are attempting to reign in expectations and they are getting 2x as many disagrees.
For me, it's business as usual. Tools get better. Console become more efficient. Better games for everybody!

[HaydenJameSmith]

The PS3 hardware was better than the 360 and look how that did last generation... it took 5 years for the software to catch up with its hardware and had to redesign the console within the first year. Plus by the end of the generation no multiplat game looked better on the PS4 or 360 so its much more likely that as time progresses all games will look the same. (Apart from exclusives)

Im not saying MS are gonna pull some magic way to make the X1 x10 more powerful but they are primarily a software company so they could probably do a lot more with the x1 drivers in a year than ps4 could in 2-3 years. But yes agree PS4 hardware is better... so i think its a matter of how fast can MS catch up in terms of multiplat games. PS4 exclusives may look better in years to come than MS exclusives due to hardware difference.

Primarily the problem on x1 is the cpu bottleneck so games aren't been able to render fast enough for 1080p yet... but the ps4 has faster ram so it can, but notably all the textures, lighting and shadows etc. have been generally the same but in probably a year maybe 2 I think we'll see every multiplat game looking similar if not the same. I have no idea if DX12 will help with the cpu bottleneck but it will probably help render large amounts of textures quicker with this resource tiling feature I keep hearing about and get more out of the gpu... so we might see notable improvements. But I hope everyone has fun no matter what console there on, here's to a good generation of games...

[feraldrgn]

That was due to the over-complicated Cell. eventually it got utilized (a bit late) & we got some of the best looking games of the generation.

Multiplats never really got fixed, there were some that ran well & then there were others that didn't, due to devs still not understanding Cell.

This is different, the ESRam is a bottleneck until they can fix it & get it running "normally", but the specs are the same as we've always known.
Ram is a completely different ballgame to the CPU & GPU.

Agree to that last part, a good generation of games.

[DOOMZ]

Its going to be amazing!!!

[parentsbasement]

oh look, a positive xbox article !!!.....lets rush in and piss all over it ....

[shotime97]

so true ng4 I getting really bad with the Sony fan boy's /trolls/ponies. I have no problem talking to a Sony fan that don't act like a fool hell where all here for the same reason "we enjoy gaming" and I bet a lot of the Sony guy's are tired of getting lied to by the company that is all about the gamer

[shotime97]

oh yeah "closer to the metal" = faster time to triangle

[Mister_G]

Maybe those missing P's will appear soon? ;-)

[IRNMUNKEY]

Everyone saying PS4 is more powerful are missing the point. The Xbox is much more complicated (good thing!)it has extra audio processors and move engines. The only thing holding it back is the software.

The PS4 is more powerful if you just compare main components but everything it does has to use those main components and its already struggling to hit its mandated 1080p without compromises. I.e. No dynamic shadows on Infamous SS

The Xbox will be able to offload so much stuff to dedicated chips that it will catch up and possibly surpass PS4.

All the breakdowns of X1 have stated there is a lot of stuff that they didn't understand. This is what Direct X 12 is going to unlock.

Microsoft didn't pay 3 Billion in R&D costs for nothing! By comparison Sony spent less on R&D than they did on PS3 as they basically just bought of the shelf.

[Coach_McGuirk]

easy there fanboys. your collective insecurity is showing

[BX81]

Ummmm....ur.....ma'am, your mullet is showing.

[wildpsi]

I know that MS wanted to unify all of their gaming devices. You can already play html5 games on the IE browser on the XO. Does adding DX12 mean that you could possibly play mobile and pc games on the XO? Or am I way off?

[goldwyncq]

Can everyone stop being fanboys for once and just acknowledge that this is good for gaming in the long run?

[sephiroth420]

Im looking forward to seeing how this DX12 is gonna effect the frames on my games.

[MxRBrobaFett]

So really no one knows what any of this means and it's really just a bunch of Sony fanboys trying to do damage control in this article?

[No1up]

I don't care. Bring on titanfall, and make kinect listen better!

[MyNameIsNotRick]

People who write "sigh" before enriching the world with their vast unassailable knowledge about shit they are just guessing about are the worst.

[goldwyncq]

Unlike "The Cloud", this could actually change things for X1.

[The_devils_chum]

Boy you xbone boys are grasping badly! This is a bunch of bs and sounds like the cloud part 2.

[Father__Merrin]

DX12 can never plug the physical tech gap between the 2 console's

[kakashi81]

I heard the update is more for pc.