'Microsoft Needs to Justify the Kinect'

The Xbox One isn't having the most successful of launches. It launched at a higher price than its competitors, but it's becoming clear that it isn't as powerful as Sony's less expensive PlayStation 4. Recent sales data seem to show the PlayStation 4 outselling the Xbox One at a brisk pace. January's NPD data (as reported by Engadget) looks particularly troublesome for Microsoft's new console. This makes it no surprise that Microsoft recently announced a price cut for the new TitanFall Xbox One console bundle. It amounts to a $50 price cut for the console, with the game as a free digital download.

[Illionaire]

Microsoft has been trying to justify the Kinect for years, this is what was produced after 4 years
http://www.youtube.com/watc...

Still Microsoft tries to ride this device not many gamers even care about to the death.

Not to mention this.
http://www.youtube.com/watc...

Reminds me out the cloud hype. Microsoft has quite an imagination.

[fermcr]

You sure troll a lot for a "person" that created an account a day ago. I suspect another, of many, duplicate accounts.

[Illionaire]

I'm sure if you had anything relevant to say to the topic you would, but you don't.

I'm not sure how me posting 2 demonstrations is trolling.

Cloud hype
http://www.vg247.com/2013/0...

In all reality your trolling me. You have nothing to say.

[Gozer]

I think sony fanboys are the main voice behind the Kinect hate.Kinect is worth the money, and I own an X1. Im not on the outside trying to look in. Voice control, video editing in Upload,Skype, and voice commands in games that employ it are all good things about Kinect.

Explain to me what is next-gen about the ps4? The graphics? The X1 has that covered. Sharing? The X1 has that covered. There is absolutely nothing about the ps4 that the X1 doesn't have covered. The X1 is more of a next-gen console than the ps4 because of the Kinect. Not to mention the fact that the X1 is delivering the games as well.

As far as the cloud goes it is delivering as well. With dedicated servers, which sets Live way beyond PSN as far as online MP experience. Then,so far, we have 2 games that are using the cloud to power a.i.. The only people complaining about the cloud for xbox are sony fanboys that are too ignorant to acknowledge that the cloud is already proving itself.

[Hatsune-Miku]

Thats the thing though, microsoft can only justify their rubbish to fanat-X because only silly people would believe things so blatantly idiotic. If it weren't for actual smart gamers voicing their opinions then xbox one would have drm and require kinect to actual work or turn console on. They also said its virtually impossible to take off drm and make console work without kinect which were lies

Ps4 is the future and the future is ps4

[MysticStrummer]

"we have 2 games that are using the cloud to power a.i"

I'll grant that Drivatars are a cool idea, but not something that couldn't have been done before. The devs get credit for that, not MS, unless you're claiming that XB1 is the first console to use dedicated servers, which is false.

Is there another game besides Titanfall that uses the cloud for AI? I ask because that's a really bad example if you want to prove your point.

"The only people complaining about the cloud for xbox are sony fanboys that are too ignorant to acknowledge that the cloud is already proving itself."

No one is "complaining", merely pointing out that MS's claims about cloud power are unrealistic given the world's average internet connection, and especially the average connection in the biggest gaming market. The internal systems of both consoles can process and deliver data within the game faster than the cloud can at this point in time. That's just a fact.

[DragonKnight]

"Explain to me what is next-gen about the ps4? The graphics? The X1 has that covered. Sharing? The X1 has that covered. There is absolutely nothing about the ps4 that the X1 doesn't have covered. The X1 is more of a next-gen console than the ps4 because of the Kinect. Not to mention the fact that the X1 is delivering the games as well."

Graphics are better on the PS4
Sharing was first on the PS4

You're calling the X1 a next gen console because of Kinect? The 360 has Kinect too, is it a next gen console? What AAA must have titles are coming out specifically focused on the Kinect? When is the Kinect's gaming capabilities actually going to work the way it was advertised? Where's Milo?

Do you remember what happened when you Xbox fanboys said the PS3 had no games? Let me refresh your memory. The Xbox 360 got trounced by the deluge of absolutely fantastic PS3 games while the 360 was starved for content. PS1, PS2, and PS3 all had the best games you could ever ask for. But as usual, Xbox fans think that how you run from out of the game matters more than how you perform in the long run.

I'd rather have Sony continue to support the PS3 with amazing games, and have that translate to a slow launch, than to follow Microsoft's path of starving the 360 of content for 3 years just so it could have an arguable better launch in terms of games.

[MorePowerOfGreen]

@fermcr

I think you're right. This is Mariafuturesomething

Got a feeling this Maria person/account is also the person trolling on neogaf as CBOAT.

Spends 24/7 digging for anti MSFT propaganda to spread not having time to work, eat, sleep, schooling, bathing etc. What kind of person does this? Is it mentally healthy? This can't be a person, maybe a group of Sony hired mouthpieces.

I say this because these articles are posted all day, everyday so frequently at times, no adult human being could support themselves doing this as one person.

[Alex_Boro]

@Gozer The majority of Kinect features are locked behind a paywall and Kinect hasn't really been proven yet with games. All Kinect games are shovelware.

[Gozer]

None of you sony fanboys opinions matter because you don't own an X1 or Kinect. You are blowing hot air. Your complaining about Kinect and MSs cloud should go in one ear and out the other to anyone who doesn't worship sony. What is your point? You hate MS? You wish MS would drop out of the race? Do you really think gaming would be better without competition? Sony has shown what they would do when they feel like they don't have competition. $600 console, with an overpriced in house media format shoved down your throat, and a CPU overhyped and under performing. Is that what you want for your hobby? So quick to forget all the lies sony told about the ps3.

[3-4-5]

fermcr- don't pull that nigerian Buyback Reverse Trolling stuff in here. lol

Anyways, What he posted was legit though.

They wasted so much money on Kinect.

What memorable games have been made for it ?

What has it contributed to gaming history ?

All that money could have gone to making 3-4 Brand New IP's.

They obviously have people in charge who are too out of touch with what people want.

They want us to want, what they want us to want.

We don't want that.

[dumahim]

@Gozer

"Voice control, video editing in Upload,Skype, and voice commands in games that employ it are all good things about Kinect."

So Kinect is worth an extra $100 when you list nothing that a camera and a mic can do?

[USA007]

@Gozer I own both an X1 and PS4, and think that kinect is more of a burden than a help. It does have positive points, but so many times it thinks I've said something that I haven't or displays the hand icon without me moving. No game I have played has utilized any of its potential beyond a few scattered voice commands. It would have been better as a buy able add-on and a cheaper console price, but this is the way MS gets Kinect to succeed, by forcing it on you

[DigitalRaptor]

@ Gozer

So... you made some fanboy outburst, made some points lacking substance. You got owned, had no points to make in response, so you attacked Sony for things that are completely incomparable to what Microsoft has done and continues to do.
-------

"With dedicated servers, which sets Live way beyond PSN as far as online MP experience."

Still parroting this garbage?
-------

"Do you really think gaming would be better without competition?"

No, but someone else would step in and take their place, as has ALWAYS been the case. In our time gaming, no corporation has stepped in and made decisions that affected the industry and gaming detrimentally to any a broad extent as Microsoft.

I'm glad Sony is back on top, because now, what Microsoft attempts to do won't float and affect the industry in the same way as last generation. Could you imagine if Microsoft were leading the current generation of play, and we'd have keeled over and let an anti-consumer corporation lead the way with detrimental policies?
-------

"$600 console, with an overpriced in house media format shoved down your throat"

Trying to level things out I see? Making a $600 console that should've been sold for $1000 at the time. Sony bleeding money to provide the best value they could at the time, that's definitely corporate-greed led anti-consumerism isn't it? What format is Microsoft using now? How popular are blu-rays now? Precisely.

Microsoft force-bundling in a camera that is not anchored to the ability to play games is not providing value, it's removing your restrictions. Selling something less powerful for more defies logic. You try and compare both company's actions but you only fail, because they aren't comparable.
-------

"a CPU overhyped and under performing."

Cell performed astounding things when harnessed by the first party developers. Being overhyped would suggest it wasn't capable of astounding feats of technology, which it was. Sony's decision to not simplify things for developers, and expect them to just simply work it out was a bad one.

Without competition they still would've realised that it was a bad decision in hidsight, and if you'd have listened to Cerny's 'The Road to the PS4' presentation, you'd know the whole story behind that. But alas... .Xbot doesn't do his research...

[TheRedButterfly]

And 'he' is already at + bubbles… Shows how much this site feeds the bias and hatred. Meanwhile, those of us with "less than popular opinions" are down-bubbled simply for disagreeing.

"OHP! This person favors Xbox! Better make it so that they can't comment on anything." - _ -

[mrpsychoticstalker]

Agree

[Mega24]

Kinect could be used for many things, but I think gaming is not one of them. I was an early adopter of the first Kinect, and it was kind of a disaster, but still fun, and the exercise games were the most accurate I think.

But this new Kinect... I got no words for it, as just a burden, Microsoft needs to drop it for gaming and use it for another thing, like scientists are using it and medical personal, but not for gaming.

[chasegarcia]

I have to disagree. It is great for party games such as dancing, sports, fitness, etc.

Also, games where kids can interact with 3d characters. -For example, I had about 7 kids having a blast with the Playstation Playroom during a family party.Nobody had to wait for their turn and most importantly, lots of smiles.

[Charybdis]

Without kinect xb1 probably wouldn't have won any of those 'product of the year innovation prices'. It has been known apple, samsung google were/are also looking into camera solutions for controlling television with their tv boxes.

Kinect has a few advantages it has the possibility of attracting attention of the casual market.
-Its a product which has now got consumers saying the name of the product/brand every time they interact with it.
-If used in combo with television it advertises itself to(non gamer)friends when they see/ hear you use it to watch tv etc.

I just hope for us that it won't detract too much from core games. Kinect is just a tool to attract casual gamers and increase profit for Microsoft.

[DeathOfTheFanBoy]

Anyone who has spent any real time with kinect on xb1 has all the justification you could ever need, its brilliant and makes everything else (360 included) seem almost antique.

[GarrusVakarian]

"its brilliant and makes everything else (360 included) seem almost antique."

Oh, please......hyperbole of the century. I can do voice commands with my crappy PS4 mic, but i don't because im content using my controller. There is nothing futuristic or innovative about Kinect, motion controls via camera have been here for a loooong time.

I had some "real time" with Kinect a few weeks ago when my friend got his X1, it wasn't nearly as accurate or as fast as people like to think it is and i honestly don't see why people claim that it's superior over a controller. I'll stick to the X1 controller, Kinect will be put on Ebay.

[bumnut]

Who is going to buy your kinect? Every Xbox One owner already has one.

[zeuanimals]

@Bumnut:

The NSA. Lol

[Ra3030]

So this guy makes a comment and you guys call him a troll and talk about what he has posted in the past all to discredit his opinion? He must have hit a nerve and from what I see in his post about the Kinect he is dead on. You spend time and energy on this person when if you have the Microsoft product it should be you who is calling out Microsoft about the kinect after all it's real clear if you don't they will never support iit. They will keep trolling you along. Lol and why? They already have what they want from you, your money. And they'll troll you just enough for you to keep giving them more. In my opinion Xbox One owners not all but those who come to sites like this and defend them on every thing they do simply need to do one thing......Raise Your Standards!

[combatcash]

I think this time around MS is using kinnect to make the the xbox easier to control and to interact with. It has less to do with gaming. I understand why they did it and if the price was not so high they would have more success selling it. The features it has are really appealing to the casual crowd throw in the ability to hook up your cable box and it's sure to be a crowd pleaser, they just have to change the price at 299.00 it would fly off the shelves.

[Blaze929]

Microsoft doesn't NEED to anything. It's been 3 months since it's release. PEOPLE just need to shut up and wait. The main flagship title, Kinect Sports Rivals, isn't even out yet.

Always such Kinect hate from people who don't even own an Xbox One. It's hilarious.

[combatcash]

People who own an xbox one are very content with kinnect, well the people I know that have it. if kinnect isn't something that interested you, then you probably didn't make that purchase so there's no reason to hate on it.

[bumnut]

They bash Kinect but Sony can't make PS4 cameras fast enough to meet demand.

Doesn't make sense to me

[jmc8888]

Kinect isn't exclusive to the XBox one, nor is it a new idea that people haven't tried.

We had Wii, 360, PS3 all have motion controls.

20+ million people had a Kinect. Which means most people who have tried or owned Kinect, don't even own an XB1.

Smart people know there is an inherent lag in the gameplay with motion gaming, meaning it will never, EVER, EVER be as tightly controlled as a game with a controller. Not even a hundred years from now if there was 100 better versions of Kinect yet to come. It is IMPOSSIBLE. Physically impossible in a universe governed by space-time. No seriously. Because swinging your arms around is slower then pressing a button. By the time you finish one real life swing, you can hit five buttons and be doing a combo.

So you have the games lag, and the human lag. Together, you have one laggy experience. Even with just one, you still have a laggy experience.

Kinect Sports Rivals isn't out yet...isn't that Microsoft's problem? Shouldn't if they ask you to buy a product you don't want attached with it they should at least have games ready for it?

Did Nintendo wait 6 months to release Wii Sports? Or did they have it ready at launch?

It hilarious you think it's somehow a valid standard to think only people owning Xbox One's have an opinion worthy enough to debate Kinect. Actually that's delusional.

It's delusional because it pretends there is no valid criticism and ignores everyone's VALID criticisms of motion gaming.

The FACT is most people don't like motion gaming. Sorry. They tried the novelty of it. Maybe had some fun a few times, and that's it. Maybe some wouldn't mind 5 minutes a year in motion gaming, but don't want to spend squat on it because 5 minutes isn't worth paying or substituting anything.

All the console manufacturers had motion gaming. This isn't something just you secretly understand. EVERYONE that GAMES knows what motion controls are. I think we as a society of gamers have it pretty well pegged.

Even the ones that like and love it even...realize that while they can game 18 hours in a row if they want with a controller, you aren't going to be using Kinect 1/10th as long, and if you do, you'll be paying for it.

What's worse is all the history behind it. Everyone ditched Kinect. People bought it and said, nope. People bought the Wii and then ditched it. Move didn't sell very well.

It's not hate to call a spade a spade. What people are hating on, is YOU. You are hating on the legitimate and accurate appraisals of WHERE KINECT FITS in. You don't like the answer.

The answer is. Most people don't want it. Most people won't use it for gaming. Most people don't want to pay for it.

The non-gaming uses are a joke. Voice controls aren't Kinect, and what does that leave you with?

Not much.

[Bigpappy]

@Illionaire: You come across as just one of many here who just create and account because you have and anti-M$ , Xbox or Kinect agenda. The article is not talking about the existence of Kinect, but its inclusion in the X1 package. So how do you get M$ as trying to justify Kinect for 4 year, when the people who have been buying them for 4 year clearly got out of their beds and when and seek them out and bought them. Kinect has only been included with Xbox mandatorily for 3 months. It would have been nice if M$ had Kinect Sports and a few more crowd pleasing apps that are just fun not fitness, but it is quite obvious to me that both Sony and M$ were more concerned on how to release new hardware that can yield a profit that they were at insuring adequate software was ready to fully support it after release.

So what we have here are promises of better days ahead. Will Kinect be justified to all including those who would never by and X1 anyway? NO. Will there be better games and software that uses it in innovative ways? YES. We have a long way to go in this console life cycle. Asking someone to pay upfront on promises of better is risky and a horrible selling strategy in my book, but many of us have bought into this base on our pass experiences with these companies and the potential we see in the hardware.

[jmc8888]

People bought a bunch of Kinect's early because THEY BELIEVED the claims. They believed the hype. They trusted Microsoft. They wanted Milo.

When people realized they were conned, and when people realized that even Wii games were tanking, most people realized that yeah...it's much harder to actively game for 10 minutes then it is to use a controller for 12 hours. This motion gaming is not sustainable. Seems only the morons in Redmond forgot this when designing the new console.

Last I checked most gamers like gaming for hours on end. They don't want to stop after 10 minutes but they do because they get tired after 10 minutes because they are flailing around.

That and it simply doesn't work for many games. Using your arms and legs is a much poorer interface then using a controller. Lag is inherent.

That's just it. Microsoft promises, and doesn't deliver. How can you not see this after they didn't deliver with Kinect 1? So many disappointed people with Kinect 1.

Sure there will be better games and software, because almost none exists currently on XB1...but better then what was on the 360? On the Wii? On the PS3 move? Not really. Because if you look at what they do, that's what will be copied. The main thing to realize is that even Nintendo never came out with something to capture the minds like Wii Sports did. Neither did anyone else.

There really aren't any innovations. Use of voice/microphone doesn't need Kinect.

So if you develop a new pattern of waving your arms that is somehow fun please realize that's not very innovative.

20 million Kinects, 90 million Wii's, who knows how many Sony Moves, and people abandoned them. Sick of the entire motion gaming bubble.

It's a niche product. Some people love certain games, more power to them. Not saying people who like certain games shouldn't like them.

But please realize you are in the vast minority, the rest of us took a vote and said we want to get back to normal games.

I don't get your...."but many of us have bought into this based on our past experiences with these companies and the potential we see in the hardware."

You're talking about Microsoft right? The ones who lied about Kinect? The ones who stopped supporting the 360 a long time ago? The ones who lie about just about everything? Treat you like a fool. Wanted to bend you over and take your rights away. Cooperated with the NSA, etc, etc.

What potential in the hardware? Even the PS4 isn't powerful. Just barely powerful enough. The Xbox One has little potential because it is weak and has a huge bottleneck. You can thank all the ancillary non-gaming ideas revolving around Xbox One to thank for that.

The sad thing is if Microsoft wanted a $499 gaming console they could of had something 50 percent stronger then the PS4 and no bottleneck ESRAM.

People don't want Kinect, and you are wrongly gauging the interest of people who have the XB1. Because I'm sure some features here or there isn't a net negative, and the novelty of using it is pleasurable, for a short while. So XB1 owners defending Kinect are overestimating what XB1 owners really think about it.

It's not hard to understand. Most people can understand, sure there are 1000 ways to skin the cat, but just because I'm skinning it a different way doesn't mean it's better. Nor does it mean it's worth the cost. Nor does it mean it would matter if it was magically whisked away. Nor does it mean that these people will ever game with it just because they used it for navigating around.

[r1sh12]

@Illionaire - Whilst I do think kinect is a waste (For me), you have to admit the response of the in game character was pretty sharp.
Now I do know the video lag of the camera, but it does seem pretty responsive.
credit where its due

[H0RSE]

@Illionaire

Of course you can claim many gamers don't care about the device, while also excluding that many do in fact like it. Of course you're going to hear "countless" claims of people not liking the Kinect online - this is how it always is. It's always the ones with the complaints or the disagree-ers with the loudest voices, regardless how many of them there are.

Go into any number of multiplayer games on Xbox One, and you will likely hear "xbox record that," "xbox unsnap," "xbox stop listening" or other commands over voip. The fact is, there are a lot of people who use the Kinect and appreciate what it brings. But then I'd imagine your argument you be "using it and liking it are different things," which would then begin the cyclical game of semantics and shifting arguments.

You also seem to put All the blame on the device while conveniently leaving out some key points.

1. There are optimal operating settings for the device, including distance from the player both horizontal and vertical, room lighting, voice volume/clarity, etc. So people who set it right next to their speakers and blast them, or people who don't speak clearly or loud enough, yeah, you might run into some problems. Sure, you could label these as shortcomings of the device, but they are known shortcomings, so for people to disregard them and then complain about less than favorable results, well that's human error.

The Kinect is a console peripheral available at retail cost, so if you or others are expecting it to work flawlessly every time, you are sorely mistaken. However, if you do calibrate it correctly and set it up in a favorable position, it does work work well. Since I've had mine it's had around 80-85% success rate, both with gestures and voice.

2. You also fail to acknowledge that developers are responsible for how their games interact with Kinect and how well they do it, which is why some games that use Kinect are abysmal, while others work well. The Kinect is simply a tool, and some can be better at using it than others.

--------------

As for other comments here, many of you are putting way too much emphasis on motion controls. A game can make excellent use of the Kinect, without ever engaging in motion controls. When I see people comment with the "flailing your arms" response, it tells me they have little to no experience with the Kinect, and are deliberating choosing their words to cast a negative shadow on the device. "Flailing?" Really? What, are these people on fire?

[Chevalier]

How has Kinect benefited gaming? Where's the killer App? 3 years and more advanced tech still doesn't change the fact that no Kinect game only game has changed the way we play. Ryse was supposed to be kinect only and now it needed a controller.

Again with the cloud please show proof how it has helped gaming? It's the same hyperbole and no proof to support how either has improved gaming unless you bought a $500 system for apps and unrelated features. All I have heard were recording, snapping between things and turning on/off your system, again this made gaming better how?

Also if it is so great then why are the sales so bad? It's apparently worth it to the hardcore yet no one wants to buy it? Yeah logical. You know what helps? Giving away the must have game for free in a bundle. You guys keep on mentioning it's worth yet offer no insight into how it actually involves gaming. Has it come to the point where you don't need a controller? Do you guys get excited for a game for a kinect feature rather then the games itself?

Also you guys talk about exclusives, then please explain how the last 3 years of 360 came about? 1 billion for gaming and almost no 360 games, when all I heard was exclusives don't matter and now they do? Then get a PS3 because they offer way more in that regard. Xbox One gets a handful of exclusives and you think that justifies your purchase of a underpowered system with crappy 3rd party ports?

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/w...
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/w...

Is that why PS4 has more exclusives and more console exclusives then the One?

[Axios2]

Yes, they sure need to justify the device that set a Guinness Book of World record for The fastest selling consumer electronic device.

http://readwrite.com/2011/0...

24m is such a failure, how did MOVE do??? lol

Speaking of Cloud hype, exactly how much money is Sony and Nvidia throwing into the Cloud:

http://www.bloomberg.com/ne...

http://www.vg247.com/2013/0...

Listen to the fanboy responce, too bad they forget that BF4 and The Order 1886 are not 1080p.

Too bad they forget that no PS4 retail exclusive runs at 1080p 60fps like Forza 5

Too bad they forget the list of X1 games running at 1080p or 900p:

X1 native 1080p
Forza
Stryder
NFS
UFC
FIFA
Halo CA
Dying Light
Kinect Sports Rivals
NBA
TombRaider
Rayman
Wolfenstein
Murdered Soul Suspect

900p or close
AC
Ryse
TitanFall
Thief
Watch Dogs

[GamersHeaven]

That was last gen alot of those people who bought Kinect already owned a 360 you can spin things all you like Xbox brand is irrelavant this generation get use it.

[Audiggity]

Your comment is irrelevant to all generations.

Spell check is your friend.

[Illionaire]

Kinect was such a success, people want it removed from the Xbox One to lower the price.

Also Kinect was based on manufactured hype and marketed towards 'soccer moms' on Ellen and Oprah.

The Wii was a massive success again being marketed towards 'soccer moms'. The Wii U is considered a failure and the Xbox One is barely outselling it worldwide.

Perfect example of cloud hype
http://www.vg247.com/2013/0...

For a console that has 10x the power through the cloud, you'd think it wouldn't require downgrades to reach 1080p.
http://www.gamepur.com/feat...

Or have problems running Dead Rising 3 at 720p/30fps
http://www.eurogamer.net/ar...

Just sayin.

[Audiggity]

No, you aren't "just sayin."... Seriously? You are just sitting around waiting to bash MS. I love your "research" and links and how confidently you state your opinion as fact.

What is your ultimate goal? (This question goes to all of the blind, aggressive, myopic console loyalists on N4G)

Would your goal be achieved if Xbox One was pulled off of the store shelves tomorrow? So that Sony has no viable competition. Do you understand why having more than one console in a market is beneficial to consumers?

There is some deep rooted anger and some potential mental issues with the PS4 brand loyalists. It's actually somewhat concerning.

[r1sh12]

anyone wants to reduce cost where possible.
If kinect was an option, which reduced price to a customer very few would take the option of leaving it in.
Seriously lots of people do not want it because its adding about 80-100 on the RRP/MRSP.

Mixing three different arguments is unlogical,
youve mixed people not wanting kinect to save money with people not liking kinect.
Those are 2 separate events for the vast majority of potential buyers.

Then you started talking about cloud tech.. I mean you might be angry at kinect/MS or whoever, but make a reasonable argument please.

[Illionaire]

"Would your goal be achieved if Xbox One was pulled off of the store shelves tomorrow?"

I have no goals, I'm just sayin how it is.

To answer your question. Yes, the PS2 is widely considered the best generation ever and basically had a monopoly.

PS2- 155 million
Xbox- 24+ million
Gamecube- 21.74 million

Contrary to popular belief Sony doesn't need Microsoft attempts to compete to succeed and accomplish great things. Like the PS2.

[fonger08]

@Illionaire
Since you're apparently a numbers person here are the only numbers that technically matter:

Nintendo: loss of $339 million
http://www.theverge.com/201...

Sony: projected 1.1 billion dollar loss
http://www.businessweek.com...

Microsoft: 8 billion in profit
http://www.extremetech.com/...

Even after the ridiculous sales of the PS4, it has Sony in the red and Microsoft in the black.

[bumnut]

With the amount of Zombies on screen in Dead Rising 3 I can forgive the frame rate dipping.

If you care about resolution and frame rate so much buy a PC.

I could come into every PS4/Xbox article and say its not 1440p so its crap. I would then be shot down by PS4 fans telling me resoultion does not matter!

[stuna1]

That just means the hype level was over 9000, but the relavant/usefullness level was a little over 24!

[MasterCornholio]

Basically what your saying is that Microsoft included Kinect because Xbox fans love Kinect.

[sAVAge_bEaST]

Hey, thanks for straightening us BLOWNY phan.bois. out.

with your army of 4.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...

[GarrusVakarian]

They do need to justify it, because right now it's creating an unnecessary price hike on a console that's loosing pretty badly in sales. An extra $100 for some hand gestures and voice controls is not justified to many people, especially when those things can just be done the traditional way, with a controller.

So what if Kinect has a Guinness World Record? It was the hot, new item/gimmick back then for families and casuals that quickly collected dust. It was rarely used for anything other than exactly what the new kinect is being used for....hand gestures and voice controls.

MS DO need to justify it the new Kinect, because people right now are asking for it to be removed and sold separately....unless you count hand gestures, voice controls and 'Fighter Within' as justified?

Kinect is an unnecessary gimmick, it always has been and always will be unless we start getting PROPER games for it, not games with pre-set paths, super basic controls and limits on player movement/interaction.

Also, what is up with 3/4 of your comment being completely off topic? 1080p? Cloud? Wtf....Stop raging all over your keyboard and stick to the topic.

[Mega24]

Sir, what does you argument of resolutions and cloud have to do with a piece of hardware most of gamers don't want? I really don't understand your comment!

[isa_scout]

Holy shit dude...You just took it to a whole new level of stupid. You do know that all those games you just listed are on the PS4(exclusives withstanding), and running better on the PS4 as well right??? Killzones 1080p60fps multiplayer says hi.
By the way, anyone that has half way decent eyes can see that The Order is graphically the best title shown on next-gen to date.

[allastocata]

Sadly there is no one playing killzone multiplayer to say hi back.

[jmc8888]

Yes once again Axios uses statistics and gets them wrong.

He says 24million isn't a failure. Actually it is a massive failure. It's quite the opposite of 'record breaking'.

What this in reality showcases is the pull and trust MICROSOFT ONCE HAD. Because it doesn't have it any longer.

Once upon a day, when Microsoft wasn't seen as Pinky and more as the Brain, they promised the moon, the sun, the stars...and Milo.

So thank you for showcasing that 10 of those 24 million came in the first 4 months.

Imagine that almost half of the Kinect's purchases were in the first 4 months, and the other half (little bit more) took the next 36 months or so.

So 10 million in 4 months on hype
14 million in the next 36 months based on a reality entering the picture.

Looks like a pretty similar trend being set for the XB1 as well. Decent sales at first, then a massively drop off.

Once again you also forget to talk about things other then resolution. It's the trifecta of framerate, resolution, and graphical quality/effects.

Your 1080p list also showcases the problems with the XB1. Notice they are mostly fighting, driving, and other small box games. Games with small playing areas.

The smaller the play area, the less power is used. The problem is, many of the best games are open world or almost open world games. This is only going to increase.

1920x800 still beats most XB1 games, and it still is native pixel resolution, thus it will be 1080p except with black bars. But the part you see and play, will be of 1080p quality.

Also do you even know that one of the reasons why <1080p is bad is not just that it's a lower resolution, but because of the nature of HDTV's and them being fixed pixel display. It means if it's not 1:1 pixel mapping, which 1920x800 still provides 1:1 pixel mapping, then there is additional degradation beyond that simply of it being a lower resolution.

I also see you omitted the largest list of games of them all, the ones running at 720p.

[ic3fir3]

what?
skype, better navigation in menus,"xbox record that","xbox broadcast" Gesture control, some interesting games like kinect sports, and D4, and extra few games with command.
Not enough?
gamers today complain about everything, want everything given with little money,
  Also one must justify why a car has a radio, the focus of the car is to walk?
why a plane has wheels, it is to fly? : D

Xbox was taken to give all in one, to have a gaming machine with kinect to stream, skype, and voice and gestus controls, and multi functions, and for some more casual games.
stop crying, and I accepted, whoever buys, who does not want to not purchase.
I miss gaming there 15 years old ago, where there were these ridiculous issues, and accept any console, and it was super praised, was at any price and with what.
nowadays just complain until the price of games complain, they want everything free lool

[Bigpappy]

As X1 owners, like you and I obviously are, we can clearly see that Kinect is a lot of what X1 is and will NEVER be removed from the package.

This people who complain about Kinect not being justified, will be the same people who will complain when there are a bunch of games being released for it. They will say it is a waste of resources that could be spent on core games for the system. This is a great example of why some feedback has to be ignored. At the end of the day, a company has to have a vision and find ways to draw people to that vision. You can do a lot of that buy selling the obvious perks (power and graphics) like Sony has doe successfully, or you can go for a unique approach like the wii did and was also successful with. If M$ is to be successful at eventually grabbing the mass market, it will not be because they have shinier graphics than PS4, even though that could help, it would be because they have different experiences that are attractive to more users. Kinect gives that opportunity.

[jmc8888]

Keep dreaming.

The people who don't like Kinect are mostly people that have tried or owned one before.

Alot of what X1 is? Or alot of what they can say since they can't win the power/games argument? This is what people cling to, because this is what they wrongly think is their only hope.

I find it funny that XB1 users act like ostriches and put their head in the sand. No one else understands. Yes, we do. You're not special.

They'll never understand it they think. No actually we do, that's the point. We do understand what Kinect brings, and we choose not to buy ANOTHER one.

Unique approach like Wii? Yes and it failed. You are having Microsoft copy a failed idea. It had a great run, but then failed.

Different experiences? What different gaming experiences do you have on XB1 that you didn't on Wii, Sony Move, or 360 Kinect? I mean you actually have to have games that support that to say that don't you?

You were sold on an IDEA. Well guess what, most of us were too at one time. Then we realized how hollow and unattainable it was. How the craze came and went.

It's not feedback. It's REALITY.

Unrealized opportunity, because it sounds better in the head, then it does in real life practice.

At some point, promise has to be realized, or else the promise was fake.

Well Nintendo never met that promise following Wii Sports in 2006.

Sony never met the promise with Move.

Microsoft never met the promise with Kinect with 360.

...and no they haven't met the promise with Kinect on the XB1.

So when are they going to meet that promise? Lots of people and companies have tried, and some people realize that.

Kinect only give you the ILLUSION of the opportunity. Sorry you and others haven't figured that out...yet.

[allastocata]

@jmc8888

First off, I am slightly afraid to argue with you due to your incredibly long winded posts... But here goes.

Some of us are special.

I can't tell you the number of times that I have been VERY thankful to have Kinect around. Maybe your time spent with Kinect 1.0 made you bitter, or resentful, or gave you some sort of awful itch somewhere, I am sorry for that. Kinect, and WII technologies are pretty much entirely different, so to say MS copied WII, is like saying WII copied Dance Dance Revolution, because they both involve moving. One uses skeletal tracking and a camera/mic and one uses an IR beam and tilt sensors. Anyways, Kinect 2.0 is pretty new, and has had some interesting attempts(not all work great, but they are still working with it). I think Forza's headtracking ability, while not polished is a great implementation of Kinect. Project Spark's rumored "mo-cap" using Kinect is a great idea. There are rumors of horror games that will use the pulse detection. A game recently got kick-started that will be a voice-controlled tac-ops game coming to x1. It doesn't have to be all or nothing, there is the fine line that can use both controller, and Kinect simultaneously to do some magic. I will keep dreaming, because at least Microsoft is trying to be "next-gen" and they took a chance.

[Chevalier]

Only problem is it's NOT the same popularity as the Wii and opportunities are not going to sell a $500 system. Seriously they promised full immersion with Ryse and how did that end up? A controller proved that lie right there. They still have not released a kinect only experience in the 3 years since it arrived. Now a more accurate tech and you end up with Ryse and your voice stuff. How has your record, snap or turning on/off directly changed the way you play? Still need that controller don't you? So you argue the same hyperbole and what exactly has been shown that prove it's needed for gaming? Still nothing game related, so I fail to see how it has moved gaming forward.

[Chevalier]

So you want 15 years ago and overall population to be uninformed enough to complain so that YOUR purchase is justified? Why not stick your head in the sand and ignore the comments instead? Voice control to record and navigate your menu has helped gaming in a meaningful way how? Where is this kinect game that will blow us away and fully immerse us? Remember Ryse and it's promise of a Kinect Only experience? Yeah guess all that waiting and you still need controllers. Unless your telling me you can 100% navigate and play games all without picking up your controller then yeah it'd be amazing. As of right now those functions don't change the inherent way you play.

[kingdip90]

@ic3fir3

Believe it or not there are people who love the xbox brand but hate having to pay extra for kinect and are holding off on the system until they don't have to pay extra for it anymore.

It's not them expecting free things it's them expecting value for money and at $500 the xbox one though they have much love of xbox isn't good value of money to then simply because the kinect is worthless to them and many gamers.

The article is correct in so far as saying that Microsoft have to prove kinect because if it becomes worth it's perceived value to the consumer base people will want to pay for it. Until either thay happens, a price drop or the removal of kinect, xbox one will struggle to sell as meaningfully as the competition.

[Mega24]

I sir am one of the xbox people, but I haven't bought it because of the Kinect, I've played it at a friends house, I brought my PS4, we played a bit of KI, I played forza5 (it does not compare to E3, looks odd) which is my favorite racing game, and we stopped, went to play Killzone, we passed the controller around, we played from 7 to 5am, it was a damn good time, beers and friendship met gaming that night and loved it.

But my point is, I will buy it when they drop the Kinect, and lower the price, I don't want to miss Halo because of a Kinect.

[Bigpappy]

If M$ sold X1 for $299 with Kinect would you still insist that they remove it before you buy the X1?

[isa_scout]

That's what I want to do...They already fooled me into buying the Kinect once and it will not happen twice. I absolutely loved the TitanFall beta(played on a buddies XOne)but until the Kinect is not a 500.00 packaged in deal I'll just have to buy Titanfall on my 360.
If the Kinect is the thing that's holding the XOne from being 400.00USD then I say drop it or lower the price and MS eat the loss for their stupidity.

[jmc8888]

They fooled alot of people, and thought they could do it again with their original fascist vision for XB1.

Isn't it funny people aren't disagreeing with you because you are wrong, they just don't like your opinion.

Funny on this thread opinions seem more important then facts.

That some opinions seem more equal then others, and facts don't matter.

Well the funny thing is when it comes to justifying Kinect one only needs to see how the market responded to them forcing it.

You can't deny the sales figures. I guess that is feedback that only the truly clueless would ignore.

I'm in the same boat as you. Wanted a new Xbox, then saw the rumors were ALL TRUE.

Now they won't get my money until $249-299, Halo 5 is out, and about a dozen AA or AAA exclusive titles that are way way way way better then the launch exclusives.

The problem with reality is, it's real, and in reality we don't see them gearing up to release a bunch of first party exclusives, because we don't see them buying or creating new studios.

[Team_Litt]

Pre Xbox One reveal and launch: "Hahaha, every new ms game is going to be a kinect game"...fast forward to present day: "hahaha Kinect has no games!"
-__- pick a side internet. Kinect does what it is intended to do for the Xbox One.

We complained about the Kinect focus that MS had (I know I did) and now that they are very focused on core games, people want to moan about the lack of content? Do people really want to play more Fable Journey and Fighter Within?
I'd prefer Kinect remain a peripheral controller alongside the regular controller. Fully Kinect games should be left to Harmonix.

What MS need to do is keep improving app integration with Kinect, voice commands to support more languages and use Kinect in every 1st party game as an optional control method, but please no more Kinect exclusives unless they are sports or dancing games.

[KonsoruMasuta]

People are complaining about kinect having no games because Microsoft forces people to buy it with their Xbox. If you're going to force people to take your product, at least give them some comfort in knowing that it's not as useless as it looks. If voice commands is all they plan on doing, they need to take it out the box and sell it separately.

[mhunterjr]

There's no way around in. MS DOES need to justify the kinect. Thanks to Sony's brilliant decision to launch the PS4 at $400, the xb1 value proposition leaves much to be desired to many people.

Yes, the device IMO, is integrated well into the UI and apps, and I feel like I've gotten my money's worth. I 'be been skyping, using it to control my entertainment system, to excersize, navigating, and use it in the games I play (all of which are core games, mind you) But my use case isn't the same as the majority of gamers. I understand MS' decision to include it, in hopes that the 100% attachment would encourage developers to find creative uses for it. But not having killer software for it at launch was very damaging.

[KakashiHotake]

From what I've been able to make of it the Kinect is best used for Voice Commands, video streaming, party games, and typical webcam features. All of which should be optional and not forced on gamers as a premium to buy the console. As far as I'm concerned the Kinect does nothing that PS Eye can't, and I just feel Sony chose the right path to go with their cam accessory, which is selling very well all on it's own.

[josephayal]

Microsoft proving again they're clueless

[Team_Litt]

They know to bring core games to the Xbox One though. They also know that the majority of Xbox fans do not care for Kinect only games. Oh and they also know how to keep the company afloat!

So maybe not completely clueless? The day they start selling off their Seattle headquarters or other buildings then I'll agree with you assessment completely. ;)

[Hicken]

Stealth trolling?

They don't know how to listen to their consumers. They don't know how to build and fully support a gaming console. They don't know what it means to build a great stable of first party developers.

As far as gaming is concerned, they seem pretty clueless to me, even if not "completely," which isn't what joseph said, anyway.

[AD705]

Maybe if MS released kinect with some decent games that aren't lame dancing wii sports knock offs and the damn this actually worked maybe they can justify it.

[SuicidalTendencies]

There is no justification for the Kinect. It effectively killed any & all momentum the Xbox 360 had when it was released. What a complete waste of time. It also killed my support for any future MS consoles.

[SkippyPaccino]

I thought they already did... How do you explain voice commands? If you guys can think of a better way to use voice command then having a camera, I've never heard about it... I'm sure the only way people can hear me talk on phone is because of the camera... Microsoft keep kinect as is and keep those sweet voice commands flowing...

S/

[Sidewinder-]

They make the wrong games for it.

Point and click adventure games would work just fine.

I still think it's a piece of shit though. You don't need a camera to play those games.

[allastocata]

Dunno if you have heard of D4... Might want to look into before saying things like this... Because that is pretty much exactly what D4 is....

[Sidewinder-]

Sounds pretty good.

[lonewolfjedi]

its hard to justify a gimmick

[Angerfist]

people need to really get a grip, X1 sold better then the 360 in the same timeframe, sounds like a great launch to me, its just that there is some huge demand for ps4s at the moment that puts it in a different perspective, but as long as sony cant give everyone a PS4 right now X1 is in no bad situation and Titanfall seems to be the first killer app, and yes some will be crybabies and say, i can play it on pc blablabla.

[DJustinUNCHAIND]

Project Spark, and Twitch.

Bam. Justified.

[MightyNoX]

Good effort, try harder.

[DevilishSix]

Kinect is crap my 7 year old hasn't used it in so long I can't remember.

[Spontogical]

You can't justify a device that simply cannot be justified.

It's like trying to justify the existence of the Wii U.. what is it? What is it's purpose?? Why was it released when it was released? Who is it's target audience? Why does it exist in 2014? Is it for Nintendo fans? Casuals? PS360 crowd?

[Max-Zorin]

No they need to send Kinect to Hell where it belong.

[XboxSeriesBest]

If the kinect actually had value the X1 would outsell the PS4. But as you can see the consumers spoke with their wallets

[RollinThunder]

I don't understand the Kinect at all. I never got it for my 360 and to be honest; it was one of the things that drove me away from an X1(It and the fiasco that ensued after E3). The only thing Kinect has shown me is that it drove the price up for nothing spectacular, nothing I need or rather nothing that when I was playing my 360 I thought "Wow, you know what would really make this great and amazing? If I didn't have to press the button in the middle of the controller or I could sift through menus with my voice or I could skype right here laying in bed."

I was an Xbox fan because of Halo, originally. A game with a story/universe I dug(I think I was only using my PS2 for GTA at the time, don't remember really.) I continued to like 360 because of some games I preferred and forgot about the PS3(Now I regret it.)

Peripherals don't drive consoles for me, games do. Kinect sounds cool just like having a WiFi hotspot in my truck sounds cool. "Yeah, that'd probably be nice on road trips cause I might not get reception in areas and everyone could be online" Oh wait, IM driving and "everyone" can read a book or deal without internet for a few hours and look out the window just like they can pick up a remote/controller. It just doesn't scream necessity or the next big thing TO ME. I liken this to car/truck options such as rear wheel steering which I thought was an amazing idea and option on GM trucks in the early 2000's. It caught on here and there but most people dismissed it as being too pricey an option($1500) and they could do everything/drive their truck just fine without it. Alas, the option was removed. It would still be nice for all the soccer moms/dude bros who can't drive their suv/truck in parking lots today though. Side note: It's easiest to back in tight spots. =)

[CharlesSwann]

Kinect, Zune, Bing, Windows 8, metrosurface. This company. This company!

[IRNMUNKEY]

Wait till VR/AR headsets come out that need a camera to do tracking. All the Sony crowd will have to buy a PS Eye and the headset. If the PS Eye is even accurate enough. They'll probably have to put glowing neon lights on headset so it can track it.

Whereas the kinect has infrared so the body tracking will be flawless. Also we have Cortana coming to Xbox in future which will be better than Siri.

It doesn't need to prove itself to Sony fans as most people that own it are perfectly happy with it.

[Chevalier]

Microsoft could also make a kinect game that would prove it's worth,but, they haven't have they? Remember the promises of immersion unlike any other when they announced Ryse? You guys believed that too and now it couldn't be done without a controller. You guys keep mentioning cloud as well and there's still no noticeable difference seen or proven. Now your mentioning VR sets? Honestly your head is in the clouds, you paid $500 for what may be? Unless it is actually announced and happening your point is moot.

[mochachino]

People comparing Bluray to Kinect may as well compare apples to dorito's.

Bluray was a natural and NECESSARY transition into a higher storage format to keep up with rapidly increasing memory demands. If it wasn't bluray it would have been something else, either way, something needed to exist that could hold more than DVD. It also needed to be universally adopted.

Lo and behold, the new format is bluray, maybe if HDDVD was in every 360 it would have been that. In either case, a better storage format was needed.

Kinect on the other hand is not a necessary transition for anything. If it was a better way to control games, or PCs, or TVs, or anything then it would have been widely adopted or some equivalent would have been created. The reality is it's an inferior way to control anything requiring precision or specific commands (even a TV remote) so it's painfully clear that it doesn't add much to anything. It's largely an unnecessarily expensive voice control device that seconds as a imprecise control method.

If it does improve things and acts as some "air mouse" or trackpad, or keyboard-less keyboard, MS has failed to demonstrate how. Maybe one day, and that a big maybe, but right now it's completely lacking.

[RollinThunder]

I could see that, for sure. VR headsets become readily available and that drives up the demand for Kinect as reviewers are finding the Kinect superior to the PS Camera. While that is a good thing for MS, and gamers in the long run; how much of an impact will that stuff have now or in the near future? OR's newest iteration has a motion tracking camera of it's own and it's most certainly the front runner in VR tech. While I respect Sony's alleged efforts into VR, im skeptical as hell but we also havn't seen anything as of yet(unless the news didn't explode and I missed it.)

I don't mean to play devil's advocate, I just think something driving up their(MS's) price point and adding a question mark to their console should be made bullet proof although nothing will ever be bullet proof from bad press. I guess we wait to see how things play out :\

[TheRedButterfly]

While I enjoy the experience that my Kinect offers me, I agree that it has yet to "justify" the $100 higher price point (and much more-so the millions of sales it's costing MS).

Hopefully we'll see something worthwhile soon. Voice commands are wonderful, but I'd like some gaming functionality soon. (No, the super amazing "Xbox Record That" command isn't worth the $100 yet. Maybe by the time I get a new capture card, but not yet.)

[Gamer666]

From a technology perspective Kinect is probably one of the most advanced devices on the planet. They took motion gaming to a whole new level. The meer fact the think worked decently in many games is kudos for MS.

From a games perspective I'm sure Kinect Sports Rivals and D4 will justify Kinect nicely.

I don't see why they have to justify it though. If you don't want Kinect then don't buy an MS console.

[mediate-this]

As a owner of both these here consoles, i can safely say in my honest opinion... Is that kinect is absolutely positively USELESS, i dont use voice to navigate, all that is pointless. Micro dropping the ball, today i bought bf4 for xb1 i popped in bf4 for my ps4 amd xb1, was switching between them, ps4 n xb1 is so noticeable difference, ps4 smahese xb1. Rant over