Kinect And GamePad Are Both Deadweights

Games Industry International: "It's pretty hard to figure out exactly where the new generation of consoles stand in terms of sales right now, but the general picture is clear. PS4, still supply constrained in many markets, leads Xbox One by at least a million consoles sold, possibly as much as two million - so the oft-cited ratio of 1.5:1 seems to be holding. Assuming little else changes, that ratio will tip even further in Sony's favour in the coming weeks, with the PS4 finally launching in Japan, a market where it can expect to sell very strongly - although I wouldn't expect to see the dominant 3DS removed from the top of the hardware charts for too many weeks."

[AKR]

I don't agree.

Both are very innovative in their own right - when used correctly.

While Kinect has never been my cup of tea; I still see that it has some serious potential, if it's implemented correctly.

I own a Wii U - and I can tell you right off the bat that the Gamepad is an amazing controller. Exactly; it's a CONTROLLER - not a "tablet wanna-be". That touchscreen has added a layer of depth that didn't even exist in the home-console space, prior - and when it's used in conjunction with the Wii Remote (like in Pikmin 3) - it's even more amazing.

If developers really take the reigns of both of these inventions - great things can be achieved.

- That's my two cents -

[hated_individual]

I completely agree with you!

Kinect has a lot of potential yet I think it is still ahead of its time, it could have use in RTS and TBS games. Maybe some RPG's or cyberpunk kinda game where you are like a hacker or something...

Wii U gamepad is not useless to begin with, it is a regular controller with a single touch screen. It is practical and you can do a lot of things with it, voice/video chat, can act as keyboard, draw board, it has own stereo speakers, off tv play, etc...

Wii U and its gamepad is like a stationary DS with a lot of horse power... lmao Right?

[Nocando]

I would like something like Mass Effect 4 to utilize Kinect and enable us to actually have conversations with the characters.

[AceBlazer13]

Or you could utilize a mic?

The wii u controller has potential though.

[Chrischi1988]

So true^^ Unbelievable, that some people call the same old controller, for god knows how long, "NEXT GEN".

Next Gen graphics, granted, but what else? Only stuff, a normal gamer normally should not care about. Who cares for streaming their games? Truly, there are some, but these guys could use some extra gadget for that, no need to make everyone buy that feature...

[Nero1314]

They both should be optional

[KakashiHotake]

You have the shortest comment of everyone, yet it makes the most sense.

[videgamenext1]

They kinda already are. You dont have to use both for a lot of games. I can boot up my wiiu and get into certain games without even touching the gamepad

[mmj]

@videgamenext1

The point is the majority of people would rather choose not to buy them.

I'd bet that they are adding significant cost to each console, yet like you say most games don't require them.

[AKR]

Kinect? Yes, I agree.

The Gamepad?
Well - in my own opinion - I'm glad it's the mainline, instead of an add~on.

[wonderfulmonkeyman]

As far as the Game Pad is concerned, it should always be packaged with the system.
But to even things out, they should start packaging a pro controller in alongside it with every single system sold.

[Chrischi1988]

So both become totally useless? For an extra device to become not useless, the developers must be sure, if they use that gadget in their games, that they still cater to all owners of that system. You dont know what you are talking about. Why dont we watch, how successful the PS Camera is or how great the Vita will do... You know, Vita at least is something on its own, but still, these things have to come with the console, or die right away, in order to be successfully used.

There is absolutely no need for it to be used in every game, but there is the need to be packaged with every system.

[TheTwelve]

That's pretty much it.

[imXify]

Sorry but they both should be optional. Why force people to pay more for something that in the end some of them wont even use it often. PS4 wins at this because you get the basic set that "does the job"

[wonderfulmonkeyman]

The game pad "Does the job" too.
It is not lacking in ANY area compared to the PS4's controller, unless you want to nitpick about the way the shoulder buttons work.
It's just as viable; people just like to bitch about it because it's big and because it's from Nintendo.

[TFJWM]

@wonderfulmonkeyman It not that it is lacking, the problem is it doesn't add a lot to most games and it inflates the price of Wii-U by a good amount

[Geekman]

Well like I said, there wouldn't BE any competition if both companies just decided to throw out a PS4 clone.

[Vegamyster]

I own the original Kinect and never thought much of it, it was cool for a bit but i lost interest quickly. The Wii-U gamepad I've enjoyed quite a bit due to offscreen play and it makes going through menu's or using apps like Youtube far less tedious.

[R00bot]

You use the youtube app? What. Everyone knows the Youtube app on the Wii U is horrible, the browser destroys it at everything.

[Vegamyster]

@R00bot

I never had any issues with it, far better then the 360's app lol.

[deafdani]

Vega, use Youtube on the Wii U browser. Then you will see how the app is terrible in comparison. ;)

[Eonjay]

I think that Kinect has great application, but not so much in gaming. Imagine using it to simulate surgery for med students. That would be awesome. The gamepad has great applications, but mainly as a map for inventory manager in game or saving stats. It can be an integral part of the experience if it diverts your attention away from the screen at important moments.

[dedicatedtogamers]

The console market is shrinking. This isn't the time for special snowflake egotistical ideas or trojan horses for non-gaming aspirations. In this modern game market, either you're the best gaming console, or you're not and you fall behind. Based on the overwhelming success of both the 3DS and the PS4 (arguably, the best platforms in their markets) it would seem that people simply want to play a great game on a great console. The era of "PS3: It only does everything" is dead.

[staticdash22]

THIS is what I've been trying to say all along. Spot on.

[staticdash22]

But I don't have any INTEREST in your innovation. Just give me the console, and call it a day. This can't be so hard to understand, it's not.

[TFJWM]

Let me correct that for you. You do not have any INTEREST in console innovation. I assume you still want games to be innovative?

[NeoTribe]

Kinect has had YEARS to be used correctly and it has fallen flat on its face over and over and over and over and over and over again.... kinect is plain and simply NOT a device for gaming. Fact.

[medman]

Edonus is seriously trying to make a comparison between the ps4's touch pad and wii u's gamepad and kinect. The touch pad hasn't added any cost whatsoever when buying a ps4 controller. Now compare that to the pricing of a replacement kinect or gamepad (if you can find a gamepad to purchase individually). So considering that, the touchpad doesn't belong in this conversation as the gamepad and kinect add price to the wii u and xbone where the touchpad does not. And if you're going to implement a feature that costs gamers at retail, it should work better and actually provide more benefit to the average consumer than the gamepad or the kinect currently provide. Case closed.

[1upgamer99]

Well without the gamepad I think Nintendo would have a hell of a time mankind DS/3DS titles avaiable on Wii U e-shop, and I like the gamepad period.

[1upgamer99]

Well without the gamepad I think Nintendo would have a hell of a time making DS/3DS titles avaiable on Wii U e-shop, which is starting soon and I like the gamepad period.

[Chrischi1988]

Yes, how great would 3DS Titles be? That would help Wii U surely, without harming 3DS sales that much. I would love to play A Link Between Worlds, but dont own a 3DS. I mean, it would work perfectly. Everyone with a 3D TV could play these games in 3D and the rest, play it like a 2DS for example.

Nintendo would help themselves and the Wii U with this, because there would definitely be some people, who would consider getting a Wii U then, it would be like Vita TV, just useable at home, but at Wii U goodies to it, some would get a Wii U then, even if they only wanted a 3DS.

[BoneBone]

It's fun to read all the comments in the article from programmers, modellers and other people involved in the games business, saying how much they like the GamePad!!

[Man_Son]

This article is personal opinion only!!

[Bernlock]

Alot of people talk bad about the new kinnect but they have never used it. I love the integration with the OS and mine works flawlessly. Its so easy to navigate using it I will be pissed if they get rid of it. I love it

[Kevlar009]

If the Xbox cost $400 and if Nintendo had a good marketing campaign and twice as many great games this generation would be a completely different story

[thezeldadoth]

the gamepad is amazing.

[XboxFun]

Yes, because every console should be as bland and boring as the ps4. C'mon now, these devices are what seperates these consoles.

[Ricegum]

But these devices come at a price, that's the point. The thing that distinguishes the PS4 from these two is that it is a simple games console, with no unnecessary strings attached.

[wonderfulmonkeyman]

The "price" of the game pad is a mere $100, IIRC.
That's the CHEAPEST form of off-TV play on the market, and it gives you more than just that benefit on top of all the buttons a core gamer expects to find on their controller.
It's a simple game console too, it just has something more unique about it than the others.
Something that more than justifies its own price.

[Hicken]

It's also the most basic form of off-TV play, limited in range, and not being used very extensively by many developers. To be sure, there are some excellent applications, but it certainly lags behind, say, a dedicated gaming device that can ALSO double as a controller/remote play conduit for a console.

I mean, how extensive are the media functions? What's the library for the gamepad like? How's its portability? It works well enough with the console it's designed to be used with, but those uses are rather limited in application.

Hell, does EVERY game even support off-TV play?

[SpiralTear]

@Hicken

You're clearly trying to make a case for the Vita, but you seem to forget the fact that the handheld is $200 and the PS4 is $400, no games included. That's $600 for all that and Sony keeps turning down a PS4/Vita bundle.

Also, the Vita's remote play latency is much larger than the Wii U's off-TV play, especially if you try it out over Wi-fi, which is a nightmare.

And Sony is not using remote play integrally. It's still just a feature; there are no games built around that feature. There are Wii U games like ZombiU that use the Gamepad in the framework. Hell, there are Kinect games that use its feature well. Look at Child of Eden on 360. That was a Kinect game that was built with the system in mind.

The more optional something is, the less chance you'll find a game that uses that something intelligently and integrally. I'd rather buy a Wii U for fluid, reliable off-TV play than buy a Vita simply to be at the mercy of networking infrastructure just to play Killzone with a rear touch pad.

The comparison doesn't work here.

[Hicken]

Not really "making a case." monkey played up the Wii U and its gamepad as being the cheapest way to do off-TV play.

I countered with how basic the Wii U is in that respect. Never refuted that, yes, it costs more to do so with the PS4/Vita.

Not really seeing what "games included" has to do with anything. There aren't any included with the Wii U, either, unless you buy a bundle. That makes that "point" effectively a wash, since you can do the same thing with the PS4/Vita.

Actually, the latency isn't that bad, provided your connection to the access point isn't garbage. It's much better than with the PS3, which wasn't too terrible, itself. But yes, if your home internet is crap and/or the internet you connect your Vita to is crap, expect a fair deal of latency. Even so, expect NOTHING at all if you leave your house with your Wii U's gamepad.

No games NEED to be built around it, as it's a standard function of the two devices. The most developers have to do is offer a control scheme compatible with the touchpad/touchscreen. Somehow, you're a little late to the party on this one...

And your comparison is off- as it tends to be whenever people try to say the Wii U's version of things is better- because you take into account NONE of the extras that owning a Vita affords. For example, the media functions I mentioned in my previous comment. Or the fact that it's a full, standalone gaming device.

We could get into implications, too: owning both the PS4 and Vita, you're extremely likely to have bought into PS+. And that would yield you, right now, six games to play free of charge(specifically for your Vita; not even gonna go into what's on the PS4, or PS3, where cross-buy could be a factor), including the likes of Wipeout, Uncharted, and Gravity Rush; what games can you play on the Wii U's gamepad without actually using the Wii U?

Rather than making a case, as you call it, I'm offering a counterpoint: speaking STRICTLY of what you get out of the box, what the Wii U can do with its controller is unique for home consoles. However, it's not unique to consoles overall, and it's not the most versatile implementation of the concept; that belongs to the PS4/Vita combo. It's also not implemented in every game, particularly in a meaningful fashion in multiplats.

I'd think a device that you know will be used for EVERY game(barring those that require peripherals) would be worth as much or more than a device that is implemented on a case-by-case basis. After all, the Kinect is in EVERY XB1 box; is it being used in every game? Is the gamepad being used for off-TV play in every game?

Didn't think so.

[SpiralTear]

@Hicken

"six games to play free of charge"

What about the memory cards? They're expensive, very limited in size and are proprietary format. PS+ is a great deal and I use it a lot myself, but Sony compensates for the free games on Vita by making the memory cards for Vita absurdly small in storage space and absurdly priced. There are great games on Vita for download. The problem is that you can't play them unless you buy an expensive memory card.

"it's a full, standalone gaming device"

True, but Sony's not treating it like one. They keep saying they'll support it, but I'm not seeing anything except for rare instances of marketing it as a companion for the PS4 (if any Vita marketing is going on at all in some parts of the world). That's a big part of Sony's direction in promoting the Vita and that's no way to sell a "standalone" gaming system. The Vita is a great system; Sony just doesn't seem to believe that it's great enough to be worth investing time and effort into promoting it and not its remote play feature for PS4.

"Not really seeing what "games included" has to do with anything"

I mentioned that to prove that you're already spending $600 for the PS4 and Vita systems alone. Would you want to spend more than $600 on a Playstation "living room ecosystem" and then have to spend more on games? $600 is a lot as it is. And you mentioned Playstation Plus, which is another $50-60 a year. Vita memory cards included too? You're spending a lot of money. A whole lot of money.

I like the Vita system a lot, but there are some notable points in its design that it simply does worse than the Wii U. The Vita/PS4 idea has obvious strengths, but they also have obvious weaknesses. Despite what you may think, there are things that the Wii U does much better than the PS4/Vita combo.

[IraqCombatVet]

Funny you say that because the PS4 has Remote Play, PS Now, Second Screen functionality, PS4 Eye Camera, PS Vita TV, PS Move and supposedly VR coming.

All optional. Doesn't sound too bland to me.

[Allsystemgamer]

But but but kinect can voice command

*looks at mic that comes with ps4*

[KakashiHotake]

Kinect and Wii U gamepad both just seem like extra peripherals that should be optional that are forced upon gamers to make them spend more money. It would be a different story if these little gadgets didn't drive up the price, but that's not the case. As a result these consoles are selling as they should be.

[thezeldadoth]

"gamers" complain about no innovation in the stagnant industry, then complain when innovation happens

if you want more of the same then just keep playing your ps4, i'm happy to support experiments

[Bernlock]

I actually agree. I admire xbox and nintendo for thinking outside the box. Doing something innovative. Sonys ps4 is just an upgrade ps3 with slightly better graphics. Nothing different about it. I will get killed for saying this I bet.

[SaffronCurse]

There's nothing innovative about the gamepad or Kinect.

[madjedi]

So what exactly are you expecting from a successor console really, we have 30+ yrs of control methods why should the wheel need to be reinvented every single generation.

Slightly better graphics, there is nothing slightly about them. Bfd with wiiu is a wii hd with a tablet controller.

Again the gamepad and kinect are innovative how again?

When did a console releasing and being a more powerful version of itself become a negative.

Why is it a never see pc guys bemoaning the lack of innovation when nvidia or amd releases a newer more powerful card.

Sorry i don't buy that different = innovative, but it would explain the very liberal use of the word here.

[Bernlock]

If u honestly believe that the kinnect is not innovative at all u are blinded with fan boyism. Have u not seen the crazy things MIT students are doing with the kinnect

[Bennibop]

Sony launch more new ips last gen than Microsoft or Nintendo. Cannot complain much about Nintendo as they do manage to keep reinventing the wheel however Microsoft hit us with four gear, 3 halos plus spin off games and 3 forzas. Now that is stagnating the industry, kinect was not innovative it was based on existing tech itself such as eye toy etc.

[AKR]

That's why I don't check for the *mainstream* preference.

People have been down-playing the U's Gamepad for a good while now; and I have yet to find any valid fault. Games like Rayman Legends, Lego City Undercover, Zombi U, NFS: Most Wanted U, Deus X, Batman: Arkham City, Wind Waker HD, Nintendo Land, Pikmin 3, and Splintercell: Blacklist
- have already used it in some pretty awesome ways.

I love it.

[AceofStaves]

I want fantastic video games from a games console, so thanks, I will enjoy my PS4.

Enjoy your experiment.

[THEMIGHTYDOOVDE]

Enjoy your stagnation!

[madjedi]

By all means exactly what about kinect or the gamepad is overflowing with innovation. Voice control isn't new and touch screens have been around since the ds, so again what innovation.

And sorry but stagnation who is about to release yet another platformer, and the same basic lineup as last gen starts with a N.

And yet nintendo is somehow an oasis of originality and innovation in a sea of bland samey hd games.

Maybe one day some of you delusional nintendo fans will return to reality. Just because you consider something innovative doesn't mean others will agree or find it useful.

Here is a little hint you want innovation this gen, look to the indies because i don't see anything innovative coming from the big 3.

But then again i am not going to pretend, i am some bullshit elite gamer that is too good to play non-innovative games.

[HighResHero]

PS4 has remote play, a camera, motion controls, etc. also. Would love to see Nintendo back in peak form though.

[Allsystemgamer]

Microsoft turned Xbox into stagnation.

Poor system specs, high price point with additional crap very few people want.

Sounds like apple to me.

[reaperofsouls]

the bone isn't really next gen to be honest it is the worst console since the atari jaguar

[giovonni]

I think the want for innovation is there, but very few people are willing to break their comfort levels to achieve it.

[SpiralTear]

I'm sorry, but I stopped reading after that blatantly fanboyish-sounding third paragraph.

It's one thing to embrace natural subjectivity and provide an opinionated, but still constructive argument toward supporting a product. It's another to ramble on about how much you love one console while completely hating on everything else and treating any other system as some inferior peon on the market.

[n4gusername]

The WiiU needs a real Pokemon mmo. Sell characters like skylanders.....profit. The controller would be perfect for this type of game.

[Geekman]

What would the consoles be without them? We would all have 3 PS4's with none of your precious innovation whatsoever.

[Majin-vegeta]

Both should have been option.Those things did nothing but add cost to the xonsole price.When you shove something down a consumers throat they are hesitant towards it.

Why do.you guys think the PS4 camera sells so well??cuz its not manfdatory.

[truechainz]

The same reason no real use will come of it. Devs won't support it with cool features if everyone doesn't have it and no good change will come. The very thing holding back people from making more cool features for vita/ps4...

[lemoncake]

The ps4 camera isnt worth buying because it will never be fully supported by developers, that was the sacrifice sony made to ensure their console was the cheaper one.

[AD705]

I just want to know whats so innovative about kinect? What games does it have that have never been done before? Kinect sports? Done on the wii.

How can these devices be innovative when they add no real value to any game? This thing has been around for more than 3 years promising us the moon and we get shit instead. A camera that does not respond that well. Has no decent games unless wii knock offs are your thing. When I play games I want 100% response time and precision. Kinect does not come close to that. Voice commands, I'd rather press A, B, X, Y, or any other button than use voice commands that don't register that often.

BTW the ps2 eyetoy did pretty much everything kinect did so why is it innovative? The shit should atleast work

As for the WiiPad I actually like the controller. The screen makes it easier to navigate your game because I prefer the map on there than on the screen of my game. it's easier to switch between gear and weapons than pressing start and pausing all the time. The Wiipad is pretty cool and I was a guy who hated the idea at first.

[lemoncake]

Voice commands on the kinnect 2 is very good, it almost always recognises what I say. By the time I have sat down with the controller in my hand I have turned the xbox one and have the game I want to play loading. Totally hands free and amazing. You should try it sometime.

[Allsystemgamer]

Nothing you can't do with a mic

[gobluesamg]

Wow with Kinect you can save upwards of 20 seconds turning on your console and loading a game. Well worth the extra money and lower end specs I'd say.

[kungfuian]

Posted this in another thread but it bears repeating-

Regarding the kinect; if including it with every system means lower specs, inferior ports (from a technical level) and an extra $100 on the price tag, then why aren't Microsoft trying to leverage the damned thing at all? IMO lower game specs suck, but they might be mitigated by you know, actually using the kinect to enhance games somehow!

I'm not Microsoft R&D but I can image at least a few really cool things that can be added to enhance games using kinect. Aside from the voice stuff (which can be a cool plus) they could incorporate features like pseudo virtual window head tracking, bio-metric and facial feedback systems, environment/object scanning, etc. We want to see stuff that makes us say "who cares about a little resolution, my game does this, this, and this and yours doesn't"

This is the real problem Microsoft faces. Where is the kinect proof of concept that sells us on the system? Find it and market the hell out of it, or ditch the damned thing!

IMO Microsoft have done, and continue to do, a really piss poor job developing and promoting any true gaming enhancing features for this 'essential' device they built their gaming system around!

[Bearsfanfourlife]

Xbox fitness is awsome fattys

[Majin-vegeta]

And your point??I have a whole gym setup in my garage.Plus i can just download Workouts from the internet.

OT:Like i said both these things should have been optional

[Bearsfanfourlife]

Point is its awesome for days I don't wanna go to the gym

[Allsystemgamer]

His point is you don't need xbox fitness to workout at home.

[THEMIGHTYDOOVDE]

Anyone who says the Gamepad should be optional or that it's a peripheral clearly have not spent any real time with it.

For me, the off tv alone makes it worthy of being mainline. It is by far the most robust controller ever designed for a games console.

[RPG_Lover]

This article is poorly written, poorly researched, generalized. Just what I expect from this site. Move on

[truechainz]

Yeah it seems gamers are pretty close-minded when comes to hardware and control methods. If it isn't a standard controller people whine and moan. I know the tech isn't foolproof yet but chances are when it finally is, companies will not be trying anything new anymore because gamers will still be stuck in the past. Ignorance is bliss I suppose.

[Ninte]

I was put of by the Gamepad at the start but to realize that it needs to be there for the internet, off tv play and the other stuff the Wii U offers but I would like it to be optional to use as a controller and I would prefer to use two or more controllers.

[Werix357]

The gamepad is not a bad idea but a failure imo because its to big and looks like a prototype, while the xbox console design is very uninspired and the added cost of kinect only makes it less appealing. Sony is a consumer electronics company and they understand that you can make a technically great product but if it looks like crap it will most likely fail to sell. It's not that hard to understand is it? Wii was a good looking console imo better than xb360 and ps3 and it sold really well but on the technical side it was poor.

[DanManDantheMan]

Whoa whoa. Slow down there, Wii U may be off to a rough start, but it's no Kinect 2.0. That thing flopped right out of the gate. Every game that used the GamePad was at least good.

[R00bot]

I can see the Kinect being optional in the future, but it's already too late to get rid of the gamepad. Too many games use it, and they use it well. I enjoy using the gamepad more than any other controller. I know I wouldn't have bought a Wii U if the gamepad was optional, because no devs would make good use of it.

[UnceasingElias]

The wii u gamepad isn't a dead weight because it makes the gaming experience better. The kinect don't.

[R00bot]

The Kinect CAN make gaming experience better, but it's difficult for devs to do that, beyond voice commands, because they've still got the normal Xbox controller that the devs would rather use.

[Atomicjuicer]

Gamepad good. Kinect bad.

[SirNintend0]

Pretty much this. GamePad is odd, because when you first see it, it's like "ehhh." Then you use it and you realize how great it is. I've gotten so used to Off-TV play and having a constant map/data or whatnot on the bottom screen that I'm annoyed when I can't use it on another system.

[mo241]

Can't nintendo just change the wii u's name. So many people just don't know the wii has a successor, even in the pictures it just seems as a wii with a new acsessory infront of it. Just make a new bundle without the gamepad and two regular controllers. And the gamepad as an extra that way they can even make money of it. Now if you want to want play with 2 people equaly you have to buy 2 controllers. Just it's not fun with one on the gamepad and the other on the controller. Just two controllers no gamepad: same price, with a name change would do wonders. Leave the second screen option for people who want it like the ps4 with the vita.

same with the kinect just a waste of the xbox ons's power, making the gap with the ps 4 bigger.

[killzone619]

kinect is the only cool thing about the xbox one. Take it away and its just a weaker ps4 with nothing new to offer.

I would love it if microsoft released a guncon peripheral so we could play "house of the dead" and "time crisis" via kinect.

[DoggyBiscuit]

The problem with the Kinect & gamepad is not everybody is into that gimmick just look at the PS4 yea Sony coulda bundle the PS Move and the PS Eye with the console but instead they decided to make it optional, what Nintendo & M$ should realize is Gamers just wanna play games not mess around with gimmicks

[stragomccloud]

No. Just no. Fanboys need to get over themselves.

[EliteGameKnight]

I would much rather prefer the two to remain in market. I feel that innovation should have been the primary concern with all three consoles considering that I get most of the same performance off of a PC.

I'm sorry to throw that trump card but there it is. last gen the PS3 and 360 were more powerful than PCs and could thus deliver the best in visuals with the comfort of a controller. However now a gaming PC can not only produce better visuals, but also use controllers in most games.

I feel that consoles should not simply improve specs, as I could upgrade a computer with the same amount of money. A console needs to do what a PC cannot to stay at the top. I would personally take fresh game ideas and features over "pretty pictures" any day, but I know that I am not everyone.

I feel that safety and tradition should never be a road taken when the only other road is innovation. If we played it safe throughout humanities history we wouldn't even have video games

[reaperofsouls]

Kinect yes it is dead weight

[Geekman]

How did this get approved? Do approvers actually look at this stuff? Look how many people disagree. You speak of innovation, but dismiss any attempts at innovation as gimmicks, once again questioning if innovation really even matters anymore.

[sephx22]

If the gamepad was optional Nintendo would have to update the Wii U OS so that it can work without it.