"Though it's been a little over a month since the Xbox One and PS4 released, there are still doubts whether memory will be sufficient to last an entire generation."
Microsoft trademarked Direct Physics. After their acquisition of Havok in 2015, this sounds like a dedicated physics API for DirectX 12.
Like the article says, this sounds like prep for some announcement at E3 and my guess is involving the Scorpio
And XB1.
DX12 HW is designed to be really efficient with advanced physics and lighting renderers, so it looks like the aquisition of Havok was merited after all. Nvidia corrobotates this, saying that their new physics and lighting rendering solution works best on DX12 HW. Scorpio development is supposed to make XB1 games look better too, according to Turn 10, but you're right about it likely being announced at E3.
nah, this is something for developers. It will likely be revealed at //BUILD/ next week.
That's their developer conference.
MS isn't going to leverage Havok to be DX exclusive. That would be completely idiotic considering what they paid to acquire Havok. Havok is worth a lot more as a licensed API or game engine than it is as a marketing tool for DX. If MS leverages havok to be DX exclusive, then it just opens the doors for other capable physics API's to make their way into the market....which on the back end they already are, because some people were concerned MS would strip Havok tools away from them before they could finish development. That isn't something that MS wants, because it just gives more leverage for Vulkan to have a supplimental API which can outdo whatever MS has to offer. That isn't something NVidia wants, because the more people move towards open source compatible solutions, the less relevance their DX ball licking has....and Vulkan and OpenGL have already given AMD an edge almost out of nowhere among developers.
Anyhow, to be more informative, and not seem like I'm merely trying to attack you(because I'm not), this is Havok tools being integrated into DX with a rebranding. It's not something that is hardware dependent, nor does Havok physics tools work on the hardware level like that. Physics tools in general are simple math(relatively speaking) type tools which run extremely fast, and don't require special processes to make effective. Havoks lighting tools work on a similar principal, but are hardware dependent to some degree, however, their lighting processes aren't anything out of the ordinary that wouldn't be built into hardware either way if it's going to support certain functions. Quite honestly, MS current API is actually stronger in the lighting rendering pipeline than Havok ever was.
Personally I wouldn't really trust anything NVidia says about what works best where. If their tools work best on DX hardware, it's because that's all they care to support. Considering NVidia is all about DX because they can't be fussed to make something like Vulkan that their competitor did, what is their opinion on the matter worth at all? NVidia isn't in the business of making physics model processes. They're graphics makers. Their lighting rendering solutions work better on DX hardware, because they were built in conjuction with DX and with DX in mind. Anything they make in terms of physics processing relies strictly on the GPU compute aspects of it's chips, and the math itself doesn't require anything substantial on the processors themselves. Game physics is about as simple physics as it gets. Seriously....game physics algorithms are rudimentary middle school math that can all be done in a few steps, using mostly add, subtract, and multiply with some floating point thrown in to keep it accurate.
Right, Rain, but I didn't say it would be exclusive. I said it would work really well on DX12 HW, which is designed to run physics and lighting. DX12 doesn't make Havok effective, it makes it more effective... or did you forget what a HW accelerator is?
Also, you're really going to call what Nvidia showed at GDC rudimentary math? It is the beginnings of CG quality physics being rendered in real time, and it's far more advanced than any other physics renderers available because of it's use of DX12. They even went as far as to explain that their solution wouldn't run as well on other HW. Besides, the real point is that it doesn't matter how fast physics currently are because there still isn't enough processing power to run complex physics and lighting in real time. Simple ≠ complex.
Furthermore, who says Direct Physics is simply Havok with a new name? MS could have used Havok as a base to build a physics renderer similar to Nvidia's, but MS had mentioned Direct Physics as far back as 2006, so it's likely that MS incorporated elements of Havok into DP and not just changed Havok's name.
As far as the "DX12 ball licking" goes, grow up with that rhetoric. DX12 will make a difference because it's HW >in addition to< being an API. Does PS4 have DX12? Without it, it will have to use emulation of the HW functions in order to render scenes of the same quality, while DX12 will add to the processing of what the XB1 already has. You don't have to believe me, but when XB1 sees parity with PS4 multiplats remember this conversation.
First, let me say I wasn't really trying to dissuage against your comment completely. That wasn't my intent.
But, moving on to address your reply, Havok isn't a hardware based physics engine. That would be something more like PhysX. Havok at it's core is built to be hardware independent. Generally, DX side stuff like this is also hardware independent.
What MS is doing here, is integrating the physis engine into the SDK. That's where it becomes beneficial. Unless MS has greatly revamped the already great Havok tools, I can't see that the way it runs will be changed at all between DX hardware and non DX hardware. It's not to say that certain hardware sets couldn't include processes which run Havok tools functions more effectively, but I feel at this juncture, that is a lot to presume, and outside a couple aspects of the tools, I'm not sure it's necessary due to how efficient the tools already are.
I think it's important to understand just how good Havok tool's are. And I for one am quite excited that it's being implemented into a SDK level solution for many reasons. The socketed approach that has been had to be taken up to now is sufficient, but this just makes everything more streamlined.
Anyhow, onto the math of Nvidia. Yes, I'm going to call it rudimentary math. When I say rudimentary, it's entirely relative to actual complex physics calculations which are used for say actual CG rendering techniques, or real world prediction/application of physics models, which are not practical for in game implementation. The math used in games is simple. It's about as basic as it gets, because that is what works best, and overall, super complex algorithms just aren't needed for any kind of physics that you see in games. Physics, by and large, is made up of "tricks" which uses algorithms which achieve a similar or acceptable result without worrying about exacting precision.
This isn't the same as rendering physics, which is where things like lighting and what not reside. But overly complex algorithms which provide real photo-realistic images are still a long ways off from gaming application. DX hardware or not, you're talking about hundreds of millions of compounding algorithms processed per pixel to abstract how light is reflected, and it takes an exhorbitant amount of time...so even in lighting physics, it uses "simple" math to achieve desireable results.
"who says DXP is merely Havok with a new name"
It's havok tools integrated into the SDK. This is actually known already in the dev community. Many people are excited about it.
If it's more....what would it be? Based on all I've said, what more is needed?
I'm not saying it's all Havok tools, or what MS has changed compared to the Havok tools package, or how exactly it's integrated for development implementation, but it is Havok tools.
As far as growing up....maybe I could have chosen better wording, but NVidia has a history of talking up DX and not taking responsibility for poor performance from anything else because they simply decide not to write drivers. Sorry if my callous description offended you, but that's what NVidia has done for a while now, and it's annoying for devs, and for some people who actually understand that NVidia is often full of sh*t when it comes to this stuff.
"Does PS4 have DX12"
No. But it won't have to emulate it. That's not how API's or tools like this are set up. Havok has run great on PS consoles since it's inception, just as it has on Xbox since it's inception. Havok isn't hardware specific, and despite this new itteration having an SDK level implementation, which is good for Windows hardware support, MS is still going to offer Havok tools in a way that allows for portability. If they don't, they've pretty much just rendered their new toolset useless to any development outside of those which are only meant for windows platform release. Even if they don't offer up Havok, then 3rd party tools will make it more than possible....such as the ones I build which specifically work to port code between platforms where no direct portability is avaiable.
Normally I don't like to list my resume, but consider that I got my first major job in the game industry due to having written my own physics engine, which led to me becoming a tools developer, and I am intimately well versed on how these things work, because it's made up a bulk of my professional career.
That being said, don't take what I say in either comment in this thread as some sort of derision against what MS is doing. This is actually one of the most exciting things I've ever looked forward to on a professional level. It's not something that's going to make a huge difference to the end user, as I assume end results will be on par with what we have now, but from a development perspective, this is pretty exciting stuff.
Sorry if I seem argumentative with you about it, but I actually do understand what's going on here, and I feel that my knowledge on the subject is much more relevant than you're correlations to things which aren't applicable to what is happening here. Going forward, I have no intention of being critical of this, and really look forward to sharing my expertise to those who may wonder what some of all this means for them or development.
So take that for what it's worth.
It just keeps getting better and better. Rich L. was right. There was a lot more news about Scorpio then what he couldn't share.
Simplygon, Havok, Direct Physics... These will definitely help improve game development. Hopefully, we will learn more at E3.
They wouldn't put focus into this at E3. This is dev conference material. So don't hold your breath
@SpaceRanger
"They wouldn't put focus into this at E3. This is dev conference material. So don't hold your breath"
I imagine they will highlight some of the new abilities on the hardware, so please do keep holding your breath.
MS seems to be doing what I hoped...focusing on building game engine elements that not only 3rd party studios could use, but for first party as well.
yes, instead of designa nd build the games themselves, charge others to use your product to makea game for their system.
Ms at the end of the day is looking for the easiest buck
I think it's a new package for what already exists. I know MS has some new physics model API's coming out which are supposed to address some needs which currently have been up to the developer or tool makers to develop. basically they're moving it out of the tools realm, and making them more of an integrated to the SDK solution.
I'm supposed to be getting some information next week on what this is all about. I have a feeling it's just going to be what I already know exists, but put into a MS bundled package, with some workload algorithms likely redesigned from current offerings to match up with the overall DX game loop algorithms....which is something that used to be have to be done on a per game basis.
That in itself is a good thing for developers though, because it means less work on their end to figure out what works best in their own implementations. Kind of requires understanding how 3rd party tools and built in SDK solutions differ from each other in the development cycle, which I'm not going to get into excessive detail about....because I don't know how to talk about it in laymans terms.
Anyhow, I don't see it dramatically changing game development, because there is nothing new on the physics front that is required for current game designs to run.
There is no need right now to reinvent the wheel with complex physics models, because the physics models which have existed for a long time are sufficient, elegant, and efficient. Making them more complicated just makes things worse, and MS knows this, because they're software engineers. When it comes to physics in games, simpler is better, because it means more can be done with the same effect. Game physics is quite literally some of the most basic junior high level math you can imagine nine times out of ten. That's all it needs to be.
I don't see a lot of this being talked about at E3. Dev stuff like this is extremely dry stuff, and people would zone out. When it comes to stuff like this, I'd see them showing, not telling, and when telling, they're likely to simply show and not get into the details. If you want to see how exciting this is on a development level, just watch a build or GDC conference about engineering stuff in general. It's very technical. For those that work in those fields, it can be very interesting, and even cool at times, but to the average person with only a cursory knowledge of game design, and even less knowledge on what's on the game code side of stuff, it's all just a bunch of jargon and high level details about how to make things work. Just think of it the difference between MS showing CD3's destruction physics, versus the actual discussion during the same showing which explained how it worked. How many people actually understood or listened to the technical stuff and how many people actually talked about the results themselves? E3 is about results....Dev conference panels are about boring technical stuff.:)
PhysX was bought out by NVIDIA a long time ago. This is about Havok.
The PhysX middleware nowadays isn't used in that many games, if you were referring to that.
Actually PhysX is used in much more games than what you think
PhysX is full physics engine and it's the main physics engine used in Unreal Engine 3, 4 and Unity 4, 5
most if not all games use these engines use PhysX
but it has some features require nvidia's hardware and we rarely see these features implemented these days
PhysX has always paled in comparison to Havok tools. In any case, I'm not aware that DX ever directly integrated PhysX into it's SDK. It offered socket level implementation, but beyond that, DX had it's own physics API's which were just as capable as physX most of the time, and if they weren't, third party tools were usually more capable. The necessity for things like PhysX aren't even really required anymore. OTOH, SDK level physics integration is really long overdue. Having to tie in a physics engine on top of whatever the API's pipeline was was just an extra step, and could sometimes not work the way it should have without extra work.
@KTF
PhsyX is the main offering for UE and Unity, because it doesn't require anything to include. But most big games use third party physics engines because they're more efficient and typically run more physics algorithms without the need for special hardware(or high level implementation routines). If you look at the credits of any big game, you are much more likely to see the Havok logo somewhere in there, because it's just that good. NVidia had PhysX at a time when it made more sense to have a hardware level solution. Nowadays though, GPU Compute is generally much better and infinitely more versatile. I always felt PhysX was long overdue for retirement.
If Microsoft makes Havok licenses free, via making it part of DX, but charges on other platforms, you can believe some devs are going to favor MS over Sony. A LOT of devs, particularly indies.
Havok costs a buncha money, and everybody uses it, because it's just plain the best. Of course, it's really the support fees that get you, and they will still charge for that..
Some devs maybe. But cheap or free third party physics tools are readily available. I see them still offering Havok for other platforms, which will likely directly "port" between different API's, because it's almost necessary. It also makes sure that MS makes money off the licensing of those tools.
I felt this was likely MS end game after thinking on it after they brought Havok. I couldn't see them removing Havok engine or tools from the market for exclusive use on MS platforms, because they just spent way too much money for the acquisition. It makes no sense acquiring such a valuable product, then removing it from the market, when they could have simply made their own solution at a fraction of the price.
Making Havok tools into a SDK level implementation does indeed make it very attractive to choose DX when making one's game though. However, unlike what I see some people posit, it doesn't mean that it's going to run better on MS platforms. It just means that less work will have to be done on the MS platform versions, and that getting things up and running on MS platforms will be quicker, while it will require licensing of some sort of porting tool to move over to Vulkan...which itself is just a rendering API. But when it comes to game engines, or other companies SDK's, it now means that MS gains revenue from the licensing of the tools required to get it to run on other platforms.
In this week's definitely videogame-focused podcast, Robin and Phil talk about Havok, The Beginner's Guide and how they don't have any spare time.
Microsoft acquires the leader in 3D physics, Havok from Intel.
Nice get Microsoft. They will now be making money off many games.
...and people kept saying MS is selling Xbox division, yet at every turn MS keeps investing into gaming from MineCraft, DX12 to Havok.
Havok combined with Xbox Live Cloud Compute is going to be amazing! Looking forward to Crackdown 3 beta next summer! :D
@donthate, they could sell Xbox and still license out Havok and DX12 and make plenty of money off of the Minecraft franchise. People used to think Valve would make Half Life 3, but they've been making all the money they need off of Steam. Microsoft may just be thinking, "Hey, maybe they're onto something." The next generation of Xbox may be more like a Steam Machine than a traditional console.
They should rename it Xbox Havok. Would be a complete mind **** seeing that at the start of Uncharted 4 or other Playstation exclusives.
Mad acquisition. RKO outta nowhere. Half the games I see have that Havok logo in them. I wonder why Intel sold it?
@brofist
"Lol more money that could've been spent on a first party studio. It's like monkeys making decisions"
-Yeah 'cause 1st party studio's don't need stupid stuff like a good physics engines even monkeys know games are made out of Elmers glue and pop sickle sticks.
@donthate
-Looks like PC World agrees with you:
"Microsoft gives more weight to gaming plans with Havok physics engine acquisition"
http://www.pcworld.com/arti...
-Naturally it makes sense, Microsoft has continued to invest heavily in gaming with Nadella on the record from day one that gaming is a priority and of course he appointed Phil to make it happen. I think this is a great acquisition since they will continue to licensing Havok's software to other companies including Nintendo and Sony for license fees. It's obviously a great physics engine due to its flexibility for a wide variety of genres which is why so many well known games like Halo, COD, Uncharted, Killzone, L4D, Mortal Kombat, Crackdown, Bioshock, I mean you name it have used it....I just like to see gaming divisions on any platform invest for the future= more games.
Amazing! M$ is clearly going after the throat of gaming.
Halo 5 Guardians is going further this strategy October 27th.
Microsoft sells more than video games. It's silly to assume any money they spend should be used on video games instead. It's not difficult to look online and see how many studios they own and what they are working on. Since this gen started Microsoft has been releasing first party games pretty regularly. I'm not sure what people are comparing them to when they say they should do more.
@ColonelHugh
The only problem with your analogy is that sony does not own Blu-ray, they are 1 of about 20 Board of Director Members, while as of now unless I missed something Microsoft owns Havok. Plus the VC-1 codec used in Blu-rays is owned by Microsoft. Sony has no proprietary ownership of Havok's physics engine.
That said no need for any petty back and forth, Havok will still be used for sony games.
@brofist
Wut?lmao. This move benefits Ms studios. Lmao. You guys. XD
@4show
Well said.
"Part of this innovation will include building the most complete cloud service, which we’ve just started to show through games like “Crackdown 3.”
MS is about to take gaming to the next level.
Can't wait:
-Unmatched destruction
-effects like volumetric fog
-smarter and more NPCs
@Septic
Why would it be a complete mind ****?
It'll be business as usual.
@4show
Sony owns a chunk of Blu-Ray, CD, and DVD. They get royalties for each. MS owns VC1 and WMV/WMA, both of which are in PS3 and PS4 (not sure about the latter with PS4, but PS3 does support it)... and now one of many physics middleware options.
End point, both pay each other for various technologies that they own patents for.
This move doesn't really strengthen their position in the console war, as there are other physics middleware options available and Sony can just code their own as well if they really needed to. However, this does open a new revenue stream, especially from third party developers.
Nothing.
It's just like starting Sony laptop and seeing Windows startup screen.
If they charge (Sony) more for developing games then that would be stupid bcoz there are lots of other game engines devs can buy. Hell.. Sony's teams can make own engines and share it around.
@ Genuine
"Why would it be a complete mind ****?
It'll be business as usual."
When have you seen Xbox or Playstation in the boot up for one of the opposing platforms?
@Septic- ""Why would it be a complete mind ****?
It'll be business as usual."
When have you seen Xbox or Playstation in the boot up for one of the opposing platforms?"
?? Why are you so immature for? Do you think that because your a fanboy that MS and Sony are too? They are a business,
GenuineUser is 100% correct, this is business.
When do you we see MS on a non-MS platform? Anytime you use Windows Media licences ie right now for PS3 and PS4 (if it supports WMA that is), Windows is on Sony's Vaios (when they use to make em) and you can still use windows media licences on Sony devices, Sony owns a part of Bluray as they where one of the companies along with Panasonic that created it...you very much still see their name along with several other companies as credited for that format when used else where, You'll see MS's name in Minecraft when downloaded else where as they own the IP, you see Sony's name when Spider-man games are on other platforms...I'm sorry but you can't be this young as to just think Sony and Microsoft are like cats and dogs.
They are a business, as to why MS has Bluray in their system, they are a damn business, their goal is to MAKE MONEY, Sony's next media format they are working on, expect it to be a MS system down the line and for PC as a drive as its not some childish, immature, fanboy tog of war...they both work with each other in many, many different areas.
Sony's films and music are not BANNED on MS platforms lol, Sony's devices are not BANNED by MS on Windows and Minecraft is still on PS3 ,Vita and PS4, in fact it came out AFTER MS made that deal.
Minecraft Story by Telltale is coming to all platforms...MS clearly owns the IP being used.
Sooo no, MS isn't like you, they actually care about making money more than trying to win some silly battle.
Their battle is trying to make money, not fighting Sony LOL!
Sooo "Would be a complete mind **** seeing that" Yes..for someone who knows so little about the industry as to not know both companies work with each other often.
Or did you think that Diddy Kong Racing DS had nothing to do with Microsoft despite them owning the team? Both MS and Sony own so many licences that they both use from each other its not even funny. Your merely new to this concept.
That's pretty huge news, I hope Microsoft continues to allow havoc to also work on third party games.
Congrats Microsoft
Of course they are, only way to make money. But I think the best version of this proprietary technology will be exclusive with it's cloud implemenations obviously.
Microsoft is a competitive monster, bunch of honey badters. Can't say the same for Sony. So nothing surprising.
All Major publishers games use Havok. Lots of revenue to be gained by Havok in the future. Especially if MS buys AMD and boosts it's Software support.
@Death,
Microsoft went to court (and lost) for *illegally tying* Internet Explorer to the Windows OS - claiming it was an intergral "feature" of Windows. Even though at the time there was a retail version of IE available as a separate product. The DoJ won and MS was convicted of being a predatory monopoly.
@4show: They're not giving Win 10 away for free, they're giving you a free upgrade from Win 7 or Win 8. That's not free. Just wanted to make that distinction before we started the thought that it was completely free.
@Ratchet,
The issue with IE wasn't that it was integral to Windows, the issue was Netscape which owned the browser market with over 75% market share was selling their browser software. When Microsoft made internet browsing free, Netscape no longer had a business model. As the net grew and more people used it we did indeed see the vulnerability created for the OS through the browser. By having a significant share of the browser market, Microsoft has a better chance of correcting these exploits faster. The DOJ was unable to determine the significance the net has on OS security. The only thing they could see was Netscapes business losses since Microsoft gave a competing software solution away for free. I'm not sure how much of a win this was for the DOJ since Internet Explorer is still part of the Windows platform.
It's actually a much bigger get than many people may realize. Havok is a very popular engine for use in the mid-tier Japanese market, and it's physics engine is used in about half the games out there.
@ITPython
I doubt that. That runs into the realm of anti-trust laws. They'd more likely just give discounts to their partners.
well its great for microsoft because with sony easily outselling them,now MS will be earning from Sony so its win win for MS.
very clever move but i stick with my ps4,although xb1 is moving up my xmas list every fast
What most people don't know is that Havok has almost become a full game engine a few years ago, not just a physics engine.
Maybe MS wants to enter the engine war by using Havok as a starting point?
Congratulations on them getting away from xbox and going more towards software like the company should
Yeah, that comment made my head hurt, like wtf?
lol, I mean yes its software because games are software but how is buying something that's a huge part of making games(software) for xbox one(hardware) which is a platform that plays games "getting away from xbox"????
Yeah, I'm not sure how acquiring Havok is "getting away from Xbox". I mean this is the headlines it created "Microsoft gives more weight to gaming plans with Havok physics engine acquisition" http://www.pcworld.com/arti...
"Will this move force Sony to fully develop Naughty Dog's physics engine?"
No it won't force sony to do anything. they could if they want to. But do you really think sony would put it's up coming exclusives on hold until Naughty dog's creates their own physics engine just because MS bough havok?
You do know that the reason devs license havok in the first place is because its much more expensive and time consuming to make your own physics engine for each game. Plus a 1 developed for an individual game may not be flexible enough to implement in other exclusive games, that alot of upfront investment that may not payoff, hence licensing is a popular solution.
I'm just here to say Havok was created in my home town :D
That's all :)
Hopefully microsoft play nice and don't jack up the licensing fee to people outside their family and friends.
"the leader in 3D physics" - Maybe ten years ago, there are better alternatives out now, although they are the "leader" in that they were great at doing business and made themselves very affordable (not to mention really good tech support for studios using it). I'm hoping none of that changes and it only improves from here on out. (though I am somewhat sceptical).
Kudos to Microsoft for saying "The leading PROVIDER of 3D physics" in the blog/article, at least they know how to be honest unlike whoever wrote the Desciprtion above on N4G.
Going off the blog it seems MS are going to do right by Havok and not change its business model one bit :)
Was an enjoyable read, there was a lot of humility in that blog, somethign we don't get enough of in this industry (though that trend does seem to be changing, or I'm dreaming?!)
Very cool indeed,
From another article.
" http://www.businessinsider....
"Microsoft developers who are planning on using the company's new DirectX 12 graphics display technology, the Visual Studio programming software, or the company's Microsoft Azure supercomputing cloud, Havok will be an integrated option that will make it easier for them to drop it in."
So looks like MS are getting ready for the DX12 and Cloud Compute assault next year by using a middleware physic engine from Havok and the main point of the purchase.
If that's the case then MS exclusive games will be fire if you combine DX12 and cloud.
This is exactly what i was worried about, and why i dislike where this is heading. Welcome to another step of the always online future.
@Rookie
Nice article
"Havok has also made its way to Hollywood: Big-time movies like "The Matrix" and "Charlie and the Chocolate Factory" used Havok's software to power their special effects"
Wow. i dint know this.
@crash
And how did you come to that conclusion ? You part of the same group that says Dx12 and Cloud Compute will do nothing for X1 ? Sounds like it...
Really wasn't expecting them to snap up havok.
I wonder where they are with the talks with AMD (if any are going on).
Indeed, MS seems really intend with having a dedicated hardware company. Havok's acquisition also seems to highlight interest in game engine software, I wouldn't be surprised if they bought Crytek or Unreal for their respective engines.
Microsoft would have to deal with Tencent, or some other Chinese company to get their hands on Unreal. I can't remember if it was Tencent that has a majority share in EPIC.
I couldn't see Unreal. Epic is worth too much, and they'd have to be willing to sell. Just because MS could afford it doesn't mean they'll snatch it up. Crytek seems to bounce around from being worth a lot, to being in trouble, so that may be worthwhile.
@aviator
with all this talk about cloud, dx12 and now havok i think we will see many more games using the cloud tech in the future..and the rumor about the amd aquisition makes more sense now..
Seems like they will use them to also further develop cloud physic processing, nice.
I really do like your avatar, but I guess not that many people remember "Mister" Chief. Or I'm not funny. Whatever!
So Microsoft aquires the leading physics tool, in order to eventually make their cloud version the dominant one. Where the hell is gaming headed?
that title goes to Amazon...
but MS is trying to close that gap as quickly as possible
To everyone disagreeing with Roccetarius. This is only good for Microsoft, not the entire industry.
How so as they're still going to make it availible to all platforms just like it is now , it is just now owned by MS so it will still be used in any game regardless that want to use it
@Kiwi
Depends on what MS does with the tech. If they decide to scrap the tools and engine just so they can use the patented tech from Havok on their cloud service, then it most definitely would be bad for the industry, as there aren't that many 3rd party physics tools as robust as Havok.
If it remains an independent company and they continue to build the tools and engine, then not much will change.
I doubt it will change the direction of where cloud is heading either way. Those tools could have been licensed, or built from scratch by MS to achieve what they want with the cloud, and it's a bit too soon to be looking for something nefarious.
Fantastic pick up for MS. What really impressed me was the statement saying Havok used for gaming and how they plan to push it. Can't wait to see were MS goes in a few years.
Surprised. I thought Havok was doing well enough on its own. Typically a purchase like this means the company is looking to unload due to long term decline in profits with no resources available to turn that around.
Glad someone was able to pick them up, though. Definitely one of Microsoft's better purchases in recent history.
Pales in comparison to the wreck that was Nokia. Wife is an accountant and was telling me about the massive lack of due diligence on that one. Cost MS soooooo much more money than it should have.
Edit: Those who are disagreeing with me should probably learn to do simple google searches instead of just supporting a bias blindly.
http://www.theverge.com/201...
That was only part of the cost to MS with that deal. It goes further than that.
@Christopher It was a financial bloodbath, but they had two choices with Nokia either buy them or let windows phone die. Nokia produced over 90% of windows phones at the time and was considering going Android. MS did not have broad enough support from other OEMs. Ballmer did not want to lose that part of MS. Nadella was against it so he wrote it off as soon as he could.
@Silver360: Didn't help that the auditing firm they hired didn't put their A game into it. I get the urgency, but I don't get missing so much and the almost complete lack of senior oversight during the process.
@christopher
“Typically a purchase like this means the company is
looking to unload due to long term decline in profits with no resources available to turn that around”
Or just maybe MS made Intel an offer they just couldn't refuse and besides Intel and MS have enjoyed a healthy business relationship for many years including many partnerships.
You do know what "typically" means, right? And, businesses aren't in the habit of selling off things that are turning them a good amount of profit and will continue to do as such unless the payout is of so much worth that it would easily eclipse profits over 5-10 years.
@Christopher
"Surprised. I thought Havok was doing well enough on its own."
Christopher, Havoc wasn't on their own, they were part of Intel. MS just have a great relationship with Intel and wanted their Havok Physic engine and support and made a great deal for Intel just like they bought Skype in the past to be part of their core business.
Also, Havok is not on a decline as they had recently expanded to Asia a few years ago and their physic engines can be found on many major Games. Destiny, TLOU, Uncharted series all uses it and is an important element for these developers to make games. Even big budget movies uses Havok.
MS just won big time here with this purchase as not only will it help with their physic engines for games like Crackdown 3, but they also collect some extra $$$ for every third party game that uses it, regardless of platforms.
Havok is a subsidiary of Intel and do things on their own in that regard. They've operated as a separate entity in this regard since 2007. It will be similar with MS. Their gains are separate and being analyzed on their own and not based on their relationship to Intel.
All of that text and you said absolutely nothing to me that says that they would have sold if they were expanding and growing business. It doesn't make sense unless MS paid way more than should for the subsidiary.
It's great you like this deal, but just pumping it up with hype and substanceless words doesn't answer the questions I have and only prove you have no answers yourself, just hype. We already know that Havok is a good purchase for anyone. The question is why sell at all when they've been doing so well. It doesn't make sense from a business standpoint. If you had Havok, you wouldn't sell it off just because you like MS. That's not a reason to sell.
Edit: And it may feel like I'm being harsh on you, but you come in with absolutely no real comment, just hype and think that's an answer to my question as to why they would sell now when it's a good business to hold onto (it's not like Intel is going anywhere else here).
"If you had Havok, you wouldn't sell it off just because you like MS. That's not a reason to sell."
I'm just gonna guess MONEY is the reason someone would sell Havok.
I know when I sell something I am always looking at how much money I may get for it.
MS may have made them an offer they couldn't refuse and in the hands of a huge world wide billion dollar software company havok may go even further than the original owners could ever take it.
The people running Havok might have been doing well but not expanding or taking their product to the next level to make more money then they already have.
***MS may have made them an offer they couldn't refuse and in the hands of a huge world wide billion dollar software company havok may go even further than the original owners could ever take it. ***
Yeah, but those profit margins on Havok... So much money to get their hands on that.
I guess MS has the money, but I wonder how long before they return a profit on it. And, this deal on top of some others in the last year... it's a lot of money and some of it won't be made back in the next 4-5 years still.
As I said before, that's at least a good 5-10 years of up front profit for Intel, leaning towards the high end of that.
I'm hoping MS has more plans with Havok than just continuing it as a standard business. Integrate that into their platforms or something.
@Christopher
Rookie has another link right above this one that actually does state that MS is definitely looking to integrate Havok into whatever they have lined up for the future.
http://www.businessinsider....
"...but I wonder how long before they return a profit on it. And, this deal on top of some others in the last year... it's a lot of money and some of it won't be made back in the next 4-5 years still."
I can only guess that MS is looking at the super long term of this deal. They must have some very intricate business road map that only a huge company like them and others like it could map out and stay relevant in this ever changing tech world.
I see it like Sony acquiring Gaikai...sure it may look like it's for PSNow and other live stream services but I personally think it's the back-end foundation for something greater way down the line.
This also could be viewed the same way.
@Christopher
"The question is why sell at all when they've been doing so well. It doesn't make sense from a business standpoint."
-I guess we will never know for sure WHY other than both obviously liked the financial outcome of the deal...but businesses who are doing well sell all the time for logical reasons.
-Focus on a new business opportunity/industry.
-Increased regulation.
-Increased competition.
-Change in leadership, owners, execs want to cash out go vacation for the rest of their lives.
-I'd guess Havok higher ups may just be in a place where they've "been there done that", don't think they on their own can implement enough growth and they knew Microsoft have been interested in buying for years now...so they decided to sell/retire. -I don't know but there are plenty of valid reasons to sell even when you are doing well, not that I think it happens quite often but to imply that there's any negative connotation is just guessing, the only thing we can reasonably assume is that it was a good deal for both, short term=cash now for Havok owners and long term= future profits and game implementation for Microsoft.
Not always. There was also Minecraft and Gears of War which were not cheap to pick up.
Havok AFAIK was not in trouble, and is 2nd in licensed engines and number 1 in licensed tools...mainly their physics tools. Maybe the owners/shareholders just wanted to call it quits and cash in, or MS just made too good an offer.
Anyhow, it's a surprising pick up. Havok isn't talked about much, but it certainly is a big thing among industry professionals.
I do hope they keep the same products available under the same format they had before. It'd be quite the shake up among many devs if they had to look for new tech come their next project, and Havok is pretty well understood by many devs.
On a side note it is kind of funny though, given how all those Japanese games with all the scantily clad girls are made on the Havok engine, and they seem to get a lot of hate around these parts. Now Havok is the best thing ever apparently.:)
I don't think anyone associated Havok with scantly clad girls or even hated Havok for it.
I've never heard Havok get bad words for scantily clad women in gaming... that's news to me.
lol
Never meant to imply they did. Just those games get a lot of hate apparently, and now everyone is carrying on about Havok. It's a great engine. I love using it, although I have yet to do it professionally. I use the tools quite often though, and I can recognize that MS made a pretty good move not only for business, but also for whatever plans they have for cloud. Since Havok tools are closely related to what I do for my own work, I just think I see what possibilities there are beyond what some others may.
Obviously though, Havok is used for more than just that, but it's not unheard of for game engines being pigeonholed into a certain type of game, not unlike Unreal was last gen for all those brown colored FPS.
"On a side note it is kind of funny though, given how all those Japanese games with all the scantily clad girls are made on the Havok engine, and they seem to get a lot of hate around these parts. Now Havok is the best thing ever apparently.:)"
Eh? Those weird Japanese games are made on Havok? And if so, what's so funny about that? It is 'the best thing' because its a widely used piece of tech. Just because some of its uses are incorporated in some of these Japanese games isn't in any way a credible way of inferring any sort of irony.
Because when people think Havok, they think Hatsune Miku Upskirt Edition Volume 5?
This is big. People underestimate how many games use this physics engine, with plenty more to come
Almost every game used the Havok tools in some way as well. Havok has an engine and a physics tool set...both separate products. They have tons of patents for gaming tech used in games, and they're hard to avoid.
Really didn't see that coming. In so many ways it makes sense though. Its a software based solution that can instantly start churning revenue for MS based on licensing deals in place.
Microsoft has the money to do it, and it's the strategy they've been using in the past as well. Of course not everything worked out as intended. Who knows what kind of competition they're buying next.
Seems like the 90s all over again. When MS would buy up the good competition. All that's missing is the purchase of Take Two Interactive. Make it happen MS. Im reading articles about exclusives on this site that may never see the light of day, that is getting more burn and traction then something as big as this. Things are changing for the better gamers. If all will Just chill and stop the hate we will evolve. Remember this when you try and try to push someone or something away they Will find there way in. I know one thing for sure Sony better find away to get into the cloud or they Will be lost very soon. To many companies are investing In the future of the cloud, I guess they Will Just rent (How costly).
As long as these purchases has to do with gamers interests than why not. Imo MS should of been buying and investing in these gaming related things since last gen but we had other managements that was only interested in buying Tv, apps and Kinect.
Either way its game related purchase that's all that counts.
As long as they keep pumping out quality titles and keeping their fanbase happy, if you're a gamer, who cares how long it takes them? Just enjoy the ride.
its all about control and leading the industry in the direction ms wants it to go
It's the only way Arnold can become President. Take over and just become a dictator. Makes sense.
And should MS be the only ones allowed to decide of gaming's future ? That's what you want ? A gaming industry with no significant competition, where MS decide everything from your ownership rights to the style of games available, the OS that you need to use etc...? sorry I want choices and not the ones dictated by a gigantic business with a monopolistic advantage
Havok isn't going to be much of a money maker for MS, it's more about controlling the development of future iterations of the API to leverage MS's strengths.
Pretty crazy. Destiny, Last of Us, Uncharted, Halo etc all use Havok. They pretty much are the gaming physics engine.
There are alternatives ...and I'm not sure everybody will be happy to pay MS the Licence fee to use Havok. But I say why not?
Nothing for anyone to concern over, and nobody need be salty about it either! Good catch for MS ..IMO /
I don't see why it would be an issue. Intel owned Havok before. I don't think much will change but still a good find for Microsoft to have that tech in house to build their cloud powered physics vision!
MS and Sony already pay each other licensing fees for a good number of things. Don't see what one more means in the long run.
Technically no. Havok will be a subsidiary. While Microsoft can move money from Havok to Microsoft they usually don't do this as there is tax involved so they just keep the Money in Havoks accounts. They usually will only move money to make quarterly or yearly if necessary. It's still their asset though. They could sell it and profit as well. They won't but that's how it works.
@Littlezizu
Sorry dude MS doesnt pay any money to Sony. Microsoft is now one of the 20 board members of the Blu-ray Disc Association (BDA) this list includes Sony, LG, Samsung..etc the board members are active participants in the format creation and key BDA activities. The BDA handles licencing and fees.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wi...
If i had to guess Havok will remain an independently run company.
As far as paying for it, most devs/pubs don't really care who owns it, so long as the costs are what are acceptable for them.
Devs/pubs don't play the fan boy game...it's just business.
It's like saying people won't use the Unreal Engine because Gears of War was exclusive to MS. It just doesn't makes sense.
Yes there are alternatives, however the Havok tools and libraries are still very popular with gaming developers so the licenses fees now find their way to Microsoft. This in itself is not a bad or illegal thing.
In some respects Microsoft has now made itself a target since many companies will now look to see if Microsoft uses this purchase to leverage an advantage over other platforms the Havok tools support.
Of course if an unfair advantage is detected then litigation is a definite although it is most likely easier to use different tools which will result in a loss in revenue.
Will Microsoft go down the path of using the Havok engine to leverage an unfair advantage? Well only time will tell.
I mis-typed my comment...apologies
Should have wrote "and I'm not sure everybody (N4G) will be happy (Sony) pay MS the Licence Fee to use Havok...."
I did not mean Developers (they don't care, fanboys do), but I was in such a damn hurry at the time, I didn't read proof before posting. My fault. However, MS are not restricting Havok to Xbox/PC. Anyone can still use it.
I don't think it will change much for competitors. Microsoft will make money off this and use it to help other areas of their business. Good news for stock holders. I don't think there's a downside here.
Totally agree. It will be business as usual.
One interesting side note, PhysiX is the other big physics engine out there but AMD GPU's are not supported by it.... Given rumors earlier about MS interest in AMD...could this be a first move toward that purchase? It would basically ensure them an physics engine for the AMD GPU Hardware. I just find that tie in interesting...but its huge speculation on my part.
Can someone please enlighten us less tech savy gamers? Does it mean cloud will be easier for devs to use now that its gonna be in Havok?
No this move will have no impact on development realistically. This is simply a business move on their end. there could be some down the road benefit to devs in terms of licensing price breaks but its impossible to know at this point.
I second this notion. My understanding is they have been buying a lot of game related companies to offset the loss of the Xbox division with things that will last at least the next 10 years like Mine-craft and Havok.
Havok is a Physics middleware. It helps game engines with physics and such. It is licensed out to developers.
Source: I.T
Microsoft has acquired Havok, the leading provider of physics - "... Part of this innovation will include building the most complete cloud service, which we’ve just started to show through games like Crackdown 3."
@Waluigi_isunderrated Yes I do get that, but I took the question posed as "is this purchase going to suddenly make developing on the xbox one easier for cloud". It will not in the short term that is for certain. Long term, it certainly will play a roll in their cloud based services for sure but for here and now...this is a business move.
Not directly. One of the reasons why I could see that MS would want Havok is for the numerous patents that Havok owns for the use of physics routines that exist within the game industry. They are some of the most efficient and refined tools available, and a company can not just copy it for their own use.
Gaining the patents, it means that MS can now implement that code into their cloud servers, and integrate it into their own cloud SDK's quicker and as a result, it will be beneficial for developers since most are already familiar with them.
If MS had to make their own, then it would be a new set of tools that devs would have to learn, and that in itself could be a learning curve, but most devs that deal with that level of tools learn quickly because they have to.
In the end, it will simply allow for quicker adoption of this type of stuff on the cloud, with a more familiar environment for developers. In addition, MS can now make revenues off the licensing of the game and physics engine, which is so ubiquitous, it would be a real disruption to the entire industry should it suddenly become unavailable.
I didn't think patents on mathematical concepts were allowed but knowing what the state of the patent system is like I would not be surprised.
Next people will be trying to patent techniques for using a swing or breathing.... Oh wait!
The math itself isn't patent-able in these cases, as they're common principals of mathematics. However, their implementation into run-time processes is patent-able, and protected under copyright otherwise. If it weren't then any company could use any other companies code.
For instance, if I were to use the quadratic function of of motion under gravity
f(t) = -gt^2+v_0t+h_0
that itself wouldn't be patent-able.
However if I were to write that into a function which implemented the function in such a way to apply the principal to moving an object on the screen, that implementation would be.
In this case the application would be the effect it has on the object on the screen in the application of v sub 0 and and the speed with which it will either increase or decrease on screen, and the code which actually applies those changes to the object. Since that could be applied in different ways, those different ways are protected under copyright and patents.
Typically the simple math used to derive the actual result of the base function is not patent-able though, so if it were something simple that passes the variables into the function and then derives a result could be copied without any problem. However, there are some times in gaming physics much simpler math is used to derive a result, and those things can be patent-able if they are applied to a specific task.
Since Havok is quite robust, and there is more to most of it's physics tools than simply deriving a result, including ways to manipulate math in curious ways, they would hold patents. I'm sure not every routine is patented, as some of them are simply ones that derive a result to change the value of an object, so there has to be something additional which would have a greater effect. These things could of course be implemented independently, and it could be hard to tell if it's infringing on a patent simply due to some things being the simplest or most obvious way to achieve a result....but all that can get tricky and is for the lawyers to figure out.
Acquiring AMD only made sense if they are planning on making a new console. AMD market price is low so buying them up would be cost effective longterm as they wouldn't have to pay for the next range of GPU's coming out in the next 5 years. Sony also purchases AMD products for its console so its a win win for MS realistically.
Sony would have go in house to make a new GPU and that likely the last thing they would want to do because of how badly the Cell did and devs hated it. Intel is too expensive.
Microsoft is primarily a software company so acquiring company that specializes in computer hardware wouldn't make any sense. It may for a company like Sony but not Microsoft.
True let's pretend that AMD is the only company out there that produced chipsets, it's not like Sony can go with Intel or Nvidia instead and get a much better apu than AMD could ever make..
MS philosophy If you can't beat them, buy them from the root up.
Nice strategic move by MS. AMD next?
"Nice strategic move by MS. AMD next?"
I wouldnt put it past them, especially with the rumors that have been going around since february. Thats four strong pillars for their next console to be built upon: AMD hardware, all co-developed in house between MS software teams and AMD hardware guys...plus integrated havoc physics, with those guys working closley with MS and AMD to get the best out of it all...and lastly there is the a beefed up azure which features Nvidia GPUs, as announced the other day. along with lessons learned from crackdown and other games that follow, I am quite excited for what MS will do internally with all this. The next xbox will be amazing...if they get the last peaice of that puzzle in place...AMD.
@FlexLuger MS has a record of dooming companies and products so at the same time you keep your fingers crossed.
@SonySlave Sorry you got banned for stating a fact.
I hope MS Spends some time trying to improve it. Havok is kind of wonky at times and could use a few adjustments.
It is a really smart buy from MS. Integrate cloud stuff into Havok and allow third party game makers to use that engine (no matter what platform) to develop their games.
Plaster "Microsoft Havok" at the front of each game that uses it, and every time a Sony or Nintendo gamer boots up a Havok game they see the Microsoft name.
Grabs mindshare and positions their cloud stuff for greater success. Also, I am sure they will make sure the Havok tools work best with Windows 10 so Havok games will run best on Windows and XB.
Nice move by MS. Financially and for their general goal of increasing use of DX12 and cloud compute. I feel some very unique exclusives down the line are coming (looking at you Halo Wars 2)
More evidence of long term PC moves. Naming services dropping Xbox name. I think some of you fanboys should be prepared for an end to Xbox. The past year is full of hints of moves away from Xbox. This is another.
Good purchase though. Quality company
Yes because buying a physics software to augment Crackdown 3 is an end to Xbox. Is that like Sony buying Gaikai is an end to PS4?
What the hell are you plotting, MS?! LoL!!
List of Havok Tech games...
Fallout 4
Dark Souls 3
Horizon: Zero Dawn
Star Wars: Battlefront
The Division
Halo 5
Just Cause 3
Need for Speed
No Man's Sky
Rainbow Six Siege
The Last Guardian
I'm intrigued by MS method of madness now. They're creeping into a different direction of gaming.
Buying the tools to make a game and make money off of it on top of that. The Uncharted games use Havok Physics engine.. Hmmm I wonder do they get royalties off Uncharted 4.
They just cut out the middle man that uses a Physics engine in their 3rd party game. They saving Devs a ton of money if you want to Develope a game on their platform. Microsoft is giving you all tools to Develope on their platform.
That's it, no more physics in Uncharted 4! everything will be static!
I wonder if that will leave room for an alternative physics engine to grow more, I mean, the list of contender is long, but Havok seems to be the market leader:
_____________________________ ___
Real-time physics engines
Open source
Box2D
Bullet
Chipmunk physics engine - 2D physics engine
Farseer Physics Engine - 2D physics engine for Microsoft XNA and Silverlight
Nape Physics Engine - 2D Rigid Body physics engine for ActionScript/Haxe[4]
qu3e[5]
Newton Game Dynamics
Omega Universe Simulator[6]
Open Dynamics Engine
Moby
Focuses on accurate rigid body simulation under contact modeled with Coulomb friction
OPAL
Open Physics Initiative[7][8]
PAL (Physics Abstraction Layer) - A uniform API that supports multiple physics engines
Physics2D.Net - 2D physics engine for the .NET Framework 2.0 or greater.
Siconos Modeling and the simulation of mechanical systems with contact, impact and Coulomb's friction
SOFA (Simulation Open Framework Architecture)
Tokamak physics engine
JigLibX
Public domain
Phyz (Dax Phyz) - 2.5D physics simulator/editor.
Closed source/limited free distribution
Digital Molecular Matter
Havok
PhysX
Vortex by CMLabs Simulations
AGX Multiphysics by Algoryx Simulation AB
D-Cubed AEM by Siemens PLM Software
_____________________________ ___
Given Sony's current patterns, I'd say they will integrate some open source engine in their dev kit and optimize it for the PS4.
A really good move on Microsoft's part. Here's hoping they continue this trend of building their company up and making quality games.
My God Sony and Ms swop money all the time people forget Sony own movies or something ms used to be paid for laptops windows now havok it business.. Hell I bet a lot of our games are built on ms pcs.
This is an acquisition already aiming for the next Xbox that MS will probably release in 3 years or so. The Xbox One will be a testing ground for some of this tech and the cloud, but expect Microsoft to use cloud based services and Azure in a big way in their next platform. They are building the tech for it now already, but it won't be fully realized until their next line of products release.
That's a nice acquisition. Any time developers uses Havok's graphic tools, M$ with be getting paid. Plus any new tools that get design Microsoft will be able to test it out in their games first. This is great news.
Sony owns a free continuous physics engine called Bullet, and have been trying to get people to use it on Sony platforms for years. I can imagine this Havok purchase will help that effort, somewhat, although I don't imagine a lot of Sony studios are super happy about it.
Bullet is good... for being free, if you get my meaning. Kinda like Eclipse is a good IDE... if you don't have Visual Studio.
On the other hand more game engines are including advanced physics included into the game engine anymore like Unity3D anyway. So its not really a problem so much as if your game cannot do without the Havok physics engine.
So that is really the point now is will the developer need that physics engine or no, many games were built with it so most likely they will licence off of Microsoft, but if and this is a big if, Microsoft changes the name or Logo to something more Microsoft oriented for the physics engine that may be a sure fire way to halt such usage if the companies feel promotion of a rivals IP would be detriment to the companies platform.
the comments section is a hilarious dick measuring contest. do you any of you kids really even know what this means?
Lol Is there any business reason NOT to change the Havok branding/logo on so many ps4 games so that it says something like "Xbox Havok"? Ha!!
O boy, where do i start?
When Sony developers used the HAVOK engine ingame they had to pay INTEL fore the use of it.
Now they have to pay Microsoft for using HAVOK. No big deal😉
Major one this tbh Havok engine is a massive ticking point in all AMD based physic and the only competitor for Nvidias PhysX.
Biggest point is All the current games consoles are AMD based hence if they now want to use Havok royalty's will have to be paid for every game that hits there consoles to MS.
Not something that will affect sales off games are consoles in the public eye imo. But over the long haul will affect the pockets off the competitors.
Smart move in a business sense by MS if not a bit under handed in a show mans sense ;).
I hope this acquisition dosn't effect the PS4 games that use the Havok engine, who knows what those MS lawyers have put in the small print...
I hope you were being sarcastic about its the end of Sony ,just because Microsoft purchased a physics Api...because if you did not know this in the case of for example.
with "Unity" and "Unreal" for instance both using PhysX out of the box, it is quite possible Intel were no longer as profitable as before with Havok.
Also:
For example, when PhysX ported their PC version to PS4/XB1, it didn't take that much effort because it was essentially the same code with a different compiler.
So again , just because Microsoft's purchase of Havok was in no way shape or form Dumb, its in no way shape or form a detriment to Sony if Microsoft wants to keep getting profit off of Havok, the leverage many of the gamers in this thread seem to think Microsoft will have over the game industry due to this purchase, really need to understand, its a business move to gain revenue for Microsoft as a whole and to obtain a top notch physics engine to combine for their portfolio. It does not really allow Microsoft any real control over the market on what physics engine Api your company has to use.
Is Havok good , yes its a d@rn good one is it the only one that's really viable? No.
LOL, I had a feeling there would be a bunch of xbox fanboys falling all over each other about this and claiming doom and gloom for Sony, I wasn't disappointed. Just typical Microsoft behavior, if you cant beat em, buy em. LOL
I had the same feeling about Xbox one fanboys FN4GM,
I also had a feeling I'd see Sony fanboys say things along the lines of "if you can't beat me, buy me"
Both are silly fanboys.
Actually there are a bunch of Sony fanboys claiming MS will raise licensing fees, will ban licensing, or just make it exclusive to MS... not the other way around.
I think if people look around they will see companies are starting to build their own engines / solutions.
And its not suprising that Intel have sold Havoc, since they have been promoting Vulkan with other companies just recent, so one would have to ask if Havoc will even be relevant in a few years.
I think Microsoft have bought Havoc to stop them from ever supporting Vulkan.
I mean ask your self, with all the money Microsoft have, they could have built their own physics toys a long time ago.
In common 3D sph fluid physics simulation, it is fairly easy to max out 8 Gigabyte of ram. A new more efficient programming solution needed to not only reduce memory usage but also speed up the simulation.
Another method would be the Cloud solution, such as Gaikai.
AMD's TressFX is awesome, I wonder what other physic tech AMD is working on, I hope its destructible environment & sph physics.
I'm still waiting for AMD's GPGPU tech demo showing Ruby fighting in the rain, with visible rainwater splashing on her body, dripping down he tight battlesuit, for the advancement of Science! :D
To me, Games are about gameplay and not the fancy graphics.
Not everything needs photo-realistic graphics...
EDIT: Though if they can balance the graphics with the fun factor, Then I'm all for it but I don't like being bored to death with the gameplay because the graphics took priority...
The cloud will give more power
Big ass "duh". Any game artist, anyone with a remote understanding of how these things work knows that we are really not at a point where we have nearly enough memory and bandwidth to do absolutely everything we want to do. Doesn't mean it's not a great leap from just having 512mb though.
Sorry screen jumped