Microsoft: We may monitor communications "to the extent permitted by law" in New Privacy Statement

In an updated privacy statement available to view here Microsoft has detailed how the Xbox One’s Kinect will use any data it collects during play. Xbox One owners are advised details about your appearance gleaned from Kinect’s facial recognition technology will be totally private, but are also reminded not to expect any level of privacy while chatting over the service.

In terms of voice chat, however, the privacy statement advises users they “should not expect any level of privacy concerning your use of the live communication features such as voice chat, video and communications in live-hosted gameplay sessions offered through the Services.” Microsoft says it may monitor communications “to the extent permitted by law, but we cannot monitor the entire Service and make no attempt to do so.” The company reminds users that other players could record and use your communications on Xbox Live and your “[c]ommunications in live-hosted gameplay sessions may also be broadcast to others.”

[xHeavYx]

I'd be careful of the " we reserve the right to make any changes in the future" part companies always hide in small print

[MajorJackHoff]

What's the need for them to "monitor communications"? For one thing, the law is completely messed up already, and a violation of our rights. See the Patriot Act.

I'm tired of companies doing crap like this. Sony, Microsoft, Flap Jack's House of Pancakes, idgaf. I don't want a company monitoring anything I do unless I give them permission to do so.

[Kingthrash360]

lol flapjacks house of pancakes....lol you sir made me laugh.lol

[NewMonday]

it appears they don't need permission and you can't opt out of this, take it or leave it.

[Sayai jin]

@MajorJackHoff - I agree it's crap. Unfortunately it will become more and more intrusive. I am pretty sure there is no call, internet transaction, etc that is not being monitored. The only thing is people think it's just MS, but we know it almost every company in respect.

[shoddy]

F U NSA

[PoSTedUP]

it states that they can take anything you do, say or upload and give it to any of their partnered partys including Resellers without notice and "without compensation to you whatsoever".

that, is what i call, bull****.

[Finch]

Sounds to me it's on the lines of. If someone reports you about nasty talk in a room they can join and see if it's true. Just like they do in online chat rooms.

[zeal0us]

What rights? The Constitution is nothing than a old piece of paper with meaningless words in this day and age. The government violate your rights and so do business. The government tries to justify doing so by using the Patriot Act(as you stated) or "protecting the nation."

Businesses can get away with it just as easy. They state it in their privacy policy or Terms of Use agreement and soon as you hit agree, say goodbye to your private information.

[LonChaneyTV]

"Microsoft: We may monitor communications "to the extent permitted by law" in New Privacy Statement"

All communication services in the US are monitored by providers.

Anyways, I thought Microsoft cleared their extent in person?

[Cueil]

they're monitoring for key words... don't worry... unless you're planing to kill a VIP of some sort

[LonChaneyTV]

I wouldn't be too worried about this but i would say first hand, facebook is the government's fist place to check if they wanted to get to know you a little better.

[cleft5]

This is why I want nothing to do with the Xbox One. It's sad to see so many dismiss these serious privacy issues like they are nothing because they want to behave like a fanboy to a company.

[Kryptix]

I know all they look for is keywords, (there's going to be that one person abusing it like the airport scans) but honestly, what ever happened to the statement that they value privacy?

What happened when they said that data collection is something that you have to opt in in the first place?

Those Snowden documents combined with the news about the Kinect collecting data match up. Only the close minded are the blind, the ones that easily or most likely fall into a river of scams and lies.

[amiga-man]

There is no may about it they will monitor communications and anything else they think they can get away with,

this is M$ we are talking about here.

'edit' sorry badz just repeated your sentiments didn't read that far before commenting apologies bud.

[Sarick]

"I don't want a company monitoring anything I do unless I give them permission to do so."

They own the servers privately. They made the agreements to subjugate you to their rules under them. When you sign up you must agree to them or you can't use their services.

Frankly this is why I'm so upset about things like this. Companies with alot of power and influence choose to do this all the time. They exploit the weakness of the consumer by dangling a virtual lollypop in fount of screaming children. They them "if you want this candy you need to agree to my terms."

Most people just give in, Few say,
"I'm not going to accept it!" Only when the corporate greed sees wide scale loss because unified customers choose not to be baited do they look for compromise.

The Microsoft policies are fine examples of this. Just recently I was reading that Sony wasn't including DNLA or MP3's in PS4. These features that where on PS3 may or may not have been excluded for the purpose of promoting their internal subscription services. Either way it agitates me that they went backwards on features.

I know this isn't the place to talk about PlayStation but when I look at next gen I take into consideration all aspects. I also actually look at the policies and privacy terms.

My motto is. A good business should make money by promoting prosperity to both the customers and the themselves. They shouldn't force policies unless the end would result in failure.

I really don't know how I'd handle this if I was in charge. One things for sure I wouldn't want to upset people anymore then this generation has already.

[jackanderson1985]

abuse, racism, sexism etc etc

[marchinggamer]

Then gtfo out of the US nobody wants you here anyway. The patriot act at the time was made to help stop terrorism. The patriot act came into play long before metadata and data mining were a thing. To many people have absolutely no idea that almost every tos allows selling of metadata.

[Magicite]

stay offline an you are fine

[kneon]

This is normal practice for any communications provider and is allowed under the law in most jurisdictions.

They may monitor communications in order to check for voice quality issues. But typically they can't go after specific customers, it would be something like they are getting reports of issues from customers in some region or ISP so they may randomly listen in on some calls in the affected areas to check what's going on.

[UnHoly_One]

"I don't want a company monitoring anything I do unless I give them permission to do so."

You give them permission when you agree to the terms of service.

Unfortunately, your options are either:

A) Agree and let them do whatever they want

or

B) Don't use the service at all.

Sucks, but that's the way it is.

[Anon1974]

If people don't like it, don't use their service. Microsoft, Sony, Nintendo...they all have ever right to control what goes on in their networks. You walk into a business and start shouting about government conspiracies, you may have freedom of speech but they have the right to kick your ass out on the street for doing so. Online networks are no different.

If you violate the online rules, prepare to be booted. Microsoft could rightly ban the word "boobie" from being spoken on their network and had every right to kick you off if you violate that policy. It's their network. Using it is a privilege not a right, as many who've been banned from these networks can attest to.

[SilentNegotiator]

@Cueil

Oh, okay, that's fine. At least no one has ever been misidentified and then harassed for an extended period of time that way.
....no wait....

This policy is complete garbage.

[Ch1d0r1]

We should have a "No Spying Agreement" like Canada does with the US.

[JeffGUNZ]

Relax. They will monitor things that matter. You know, say a few people were online playing a game and seriously chatting about doing something like the boston bombings or some sore of devastating act. Nobody gives a crap if you tell your friend you're "smoking a bowl". Everything we do is monitored, but it's done in completely different ways then you think. It's not like they have millions of people sitting in rooms listening to your party chat lol. I bet PS4 will have this, but Sony is smart enough to never address anything in that regards. Any social media or even forums like these get monitored in some way or another. To be ok with it here, in writing, but not ok with it online, chatting, is just hypocrisy at its finest.

[esemce]

By signing Xbox Live's terms and conditions you are effectivly giving them the permission, sad but true read the small print.

[UnholyLight]

HUGE PROBLEM HERE.

Too much paraphrasing in the article and it seems like they purposely skipped this part:

I read the agreement (yeah can You believe it? I really did cus I knew this would be a story on N4G) and directly following the part where it says about no level of privacy in the voice chat and video communications etc is because the console and or Microsoft collect these voice samples to improve the communications part of Xbox Live such as audio codec or how well the kinect picks up voice commands.

It also stresses in this section that Microsoft will treat these samples as confidential and the samples are not being monitored based on what is said in them unless there is a complaint of harassment for example (and I'm just going out on a whim here but this makes sense since this would breach the agreement of communication with people on Xbox Live) or hate speech directed at someone over Xbox Live.

It's basically the same process as when you call a support line and they tell you that they may record the call for Quality control purposes.

Please get your facts straight everyone.

[RyuCloudStrife]

I would not get near a Kinect not even if its unplugged!

[JunioRS101]

I completely agree.

And the most dangerous part of these situations is not necessarily how much they monitor you NOW, but how BEING monitored is creeping its way into being the NORM.

Little by little, inch by inch, day by day... They WILL herd us into cages if we let them.

[pixelsword]

I think the Xbone will be a great console, but this agreement seems just like Dracula: they can't come into your house unless you give them permission.

The thing about Dracula and this intrusion is that on the surface they both seem harmless to the point of being docile, but once inside they'll try their hardest to suck you dry and make you their slave; so a simple invitation into your house turns into verbal agreement to sell your soul.

Your unholy task entails you and your actions being the actual data they mine, among other things.

It reminds me of this:
http://www.youtube.com/watc...

First of all, what is the "limits" allowed?

Secondly, why take it that far? Why not just to it to the extent that can serve the user in terms of playing video games? That will give comfort to gamers, not some vague technocratic statment.

Hey, Too bad I didn't see this on Halloween, lol

[ambientFLIER]

cleft5 + 14h ago

"This is why I want nothing to do with the Xbox One. It's sad to see so many dismiss these serious privacy issues like they are nothing because they want to behave like a fanboy to a company.
#1.1.11"

Yes, and the Sony Terms of Service don't say the same thing at all. What's that??? They do? Wow, I guess you won't play on PSN either then...

[dedicatedtogamers]

Prior to the 360 launching, Ballmer, CEO of Microsoft, said that their old foundation was developers, developers, developers but NOW it is advertisers, advertisers, advertisers. And it was no surprise whatsoever when the 360 became one big TV commercial. Microsoft makes hundreds of millions annually selling your information to advertisement. The XBox One was built from the ground up to be a new advertising platform (Microsoft themselves said this).

But hey, Microsoft has...you know...um, Titanfall.

[Perjoss]

It's not too late to cancel your Xbox One console preorders.

[cyclindk]

Gaear Grimsrud: Where is pancakes house?

Carl Showalter: What?

Gaear Grimsrud: We stop at pancakes house.

Carl Showalter: What... are you nuts? We had pancakes for breakfast. Gotta go to a place I can get a shot and a beer, steak, maybe, not more fuckin' pancakes, c'mon.

[Gaear just stares at Carl]

Carl Showalter: Oh, come on, man! Okay, here's an idea: we can stop outside of Brainerd. I know a place there we can get laid. Whaddya think?

Gaear Grimsrud: I'm fucking hungry now, you know!

Carl Showalter: Yeah yeah Jesus, I'm sayin' we can... stop, get pancakes and then we'll get laid, alright?

[elmaton98]

All I know that if they want to see me fapping in front of kinect you're welcome to do so, you NSA freaks.

[mewhy32]

Wow. U mean that microsoft may be monitoring communications ?..... but .... well.

[DragonKnight]

So, Xbox fanboys, are you finally going to admit that Microsoft doesn't care about your privacy or rights and is just using you for ads and to drain your bank account, or are you just going to site X company that uses cookies or some other stupid and irrelevant example to justify what Microsoft is doing?

How many times do you have to be told that Microsoft is monitoring everything you say and do not only for sale purposes, but to give to the government (likely for money as well) and doesn't give a rats behind about your rights? Now with Kinect 2, they can monitor your vital signs. Getting closer and closer to Demolition Man don't you think?

[Kingthrash360]

i'm beginning to think the kinect is being forced for ad revenue. the tv thing too, i know the x1 exclusive shows like the halo and ryse will be flooded with ads making ms a ton.
im not gunna hate on the idea but its just the fact that you pay for xbl gold and ads should be removed...they should show ads on xbl silver thats understandable but no, they want to have their cake and eat it with a golden fork.

[Gr1mmyshadows]

Do you understand just how delicious a cake is with a golden fork!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

[ShwankyShpanky]

@trolling: ...sooo... cookies and usage info. That is the same as a biometric spycam/microphone. Yes, yes it is.

[SilentNegotiator]

Prepare for ads based on things you've said, your weight, etc.

[Ch1d0r1]

I hope people start trolling kinect, for example focus the camera straight into an picture anime, a hot bikini babe, maybe even cool looking lambo in the hope that you get an ad related to the subject :-)

[NewMonday]

monitor communications "to the extent permitted by law"

so we don't have a choice in this

[Mikelarry]

you never had a choice to begin with, you were only led to believe that you did.

[kingdip90]

You can make the choice to dissagree with ms terms and conditions... but then of course your system won't do much

[Drewidian]

It may also mean that MS doesn't have a choice in this either. Remember that every communication system has to have a means of monitoring by law. Telephone services, Instant messaging, mail, email, etc have to comply with any warrant that is issued to provide access to the Justice Department otherwise anyone could use it for nefarious purposes. BTW Sony, Google, Apple, and any other tech company who has a home grown communication system has to do the same so this really isn't a big deal.

[marchinggamer]

Almost every tos in the US has this stuff if you don't want it then gtfo out of this country. Nobody wants to hear people like you complain about how the NSA doesn't give a shit what your doing.

[Funantic1]

Other players can record your conversation and broadcast it.

[GNRL_KID]

They will monitor and sale your data. Look at this link. It starts small, then it will expand!

http://gma.yahoo.com/mondel...

[showtimefolks]

i just don't trust any big company when they say we reserve the right to make any changes in the future and in MS's case that means in few years we will have a xbox one with MS's original full of restrictions vision

coming of the huge success of xbox360 in the biggest market USA, why did they feel like they had to make so many changes? wasn't the brand a huge success and now Playstation 4 has a clear advantage over xbox one even by them doing advertisement partnership with NFL and giving Fifa for free in Europe

most of xbox one's best features are behind a paid wall

[Lord Anubis]

sounds like you guys (that venture into buying the xbone) will have to unplug it or cover the camera to prevent any unauthorized broadcasting..

[BallsEye]

Every single company does that. Even your beloved sony. If you'd have your own company and wound't add this line in the terms and agreements, you would fail miserably. Laws change everyday and so does the market. And tinfoils stop trolling MS gonna spy on you through the camera. You think you're so special they got nothing else to do than watch fat butts eat chips and play video games? All of you got Facebook where you give out your personal info and photos, all of you got mobile phones that are monitored 24/7, conversations recorded etc. All of you use internet and every single thing you do got it's record as well. You're just looking for anything to troll about.

Oh yea, and kinect forced and no use? You gonna change your mind when you see head tracking in BF4 with kinect

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

[ambientFLIER]

Well said!

[famoussasjohn]

All companies do this.

[PSX04]

what Microsoft want from us, our money and our private life ???

[BuLLDoG909]

"to the extent permitted by law"

So when you agree to their terms of service, its all legal.

[Condemnedman]

Yeh or they could just keep quiet for a week while they have had been hacked :-!

[JsonHenry]

Even if they (MS) didn't spy on us through the game system/kinect the NSA, FBI, CIA, ATF, DoD, and just about any other agency you can think of is going to spy on you anyway.

Seriously. Not sure why we are not holding pitch forks storming the castle right now over this crap. I guess at the end of the day the world (not just the USA) doesn't care about individual liberties or the right to privacy anymore. :*(

[Consoldtobots]

you play with the house's funny money you gotta play by their rules. only those who know the way to the yellow brick road find true freedom........

[Bobby Kotex]

Microsoft has done enough to annoy gamers who pay attention, but somehow I know this Xbone is going to be pretty successful. The Xbone can cause fatal electric shocks and millions of people will still buy it.

[supes_24]

I wanted the X1 this gen more than a PS4 but after all the strict policies I said no to MS. They did some 180s because of all the backlash from the public to draw people back in. I have no doubt that MS will implement all their restrictions later during the consoles life cycle. To hell with them and that crap, too intrusive. All X1 owners should expect an ass load of advertising on their console and more of those BS house calls from telemarketers, more junk mail. All from this collected data just to sell to those companies for a profit and piss off their customers.

[ZombieKiller]

THIS IS WHY I REFUSE TO BUY AN XBOX!

I've said it in my past comments. How much do you want to bet that they will do another "policy change" AFTER people buy their console?

...I just can't bring myself to do it. Monitor communications?! So what happens when you have a Kinect in your room, with a directional mic (which they stated in previous interviews) and a hacker or a "corrupt MS employee" (they don't have THOSE riiiight?!) decides they wanna see whats going on in my living room?

I'm sorry but no thanks. Sony has better games anyway.

[Retroman]

And MS said they was not part of NSA and NSA part of Illuminati buying X1 would break our privacy rights.

No thanks MS

[Enemy]

What happened to "we are not monitoring you"?

[Sayai jin]

No company should ever say that. Every company that uses an online feature is monitoring in some way; MS and even Sony are no different in this regard. To what degree is questionable. If you use any type of device that uses internet, cell comm, etc you bet your bottom dollar you are being tracked.

[Mikelarry]

come on now after the prism scandal anyone who believed that is well..... naive

[Hicken]

180.

[Relientk77]

It turned back to "We are monitoring you"

[sAVAge_bEaST]

Everything is now under "control" --__.

[Sayai jin]

MS needs to make sure they make this as transparent as possible and answer and prove what they say. I think the monitoring statement is a reflection of the new rep system and smart match. The 2nd part: This sounds to me that they are warning people that other people can record what they say or do and post it on any site. The last portion was also listed on the TOU for the first Kinect.

Edited: Just re-read the Privacy Statement. I do not see anything new in this statement that was not stated in the last. I could be wrong.

"Except as described in this privacy statement, we won’t disclose your personal information to a third party without your consent."

[The_Ozymandias]

Lol....and here we go.

[Mikelarry]

popcorn check.... 3d glasses check

the comment section about to get interesting

http://www.cinemablend.com/...

[AceBlazer13]

just the tip, i promise.

[Bathyj]

Wait till you feel the whole shaft.

Oh, you were talking about icebergs...

[Consoldtobots]

thanks you just made LOL in my office.

[jhoward585]

Welcome to the recorded future....everything gets recorded.

[strigoi814]

o ohhh!! shizz got real...pre order to be cancelled??

[Aleithian]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Seriously though. This site flared up with largely serious discussion of this issue when Snowden first dropped news of PRISM and we all discovered that MS was in on it. It is for fools to dismiss the seriousness of this issue. Government and corporations - including MS - are in cahoots to collect data about all of us, from whatever source they can. There is AMPLE evidence for this, and all it would take is an hour of research to turn up, not "conspiracy sites", but documented evidence to prove the point.

MS has virtually unlimited right to gather information on users insofar as they operate within the orbit of the NSA's data collection efforts. This information is shared with the Federal government's various bodies and subjected to various analytics programs that collate information about YOU.

There is simply no question about this: MS's claims to "respect privacy" are rhetorical, and the user data of all XBOX One users will be incorporated into the Federal government's data banks. This includes, of course, the data of users in foreign countries. And this includes, further, not just the games you have played, but how long you have played, how seriously you play, your viewing preferences, what you say in chat, the kind of gamer you are, what you share, your Kinect data, and so forth.

I suggest doubters at least undertake an honest internet investigation into this, even if briefly, just to check for themselves. Because before you know it, this country and this world will be a very uncomfortable place - more so than it is now.

[Sci0n]

good points I do believe NSA is more so interested in enforcing these policies while utilizing consoles to gain intelligence here and overseas. You wont believe how much serious critical personal conversations go on over the internet, PSN and XBL. I always will trust Sony more then microsoft though and im not too worried about this coming to PSN a part japanese ran company. Wasnt the japs helping protect snowden and representing his cause and demanding the US respect his rights?

[Aleithian]

Precisely. And here's the CRUCIAL point. As will be clear from some internet research, the primary goal of this data collection operation is to profile the public to build up a behavioral database to be used in future operations (e.g. political operations, potential martial law operations, economic planning, etc.). A behavioral database is only as useful as the range of it's available data. Best way to increase the accuracy of the database? Extend data collection into the youth of the populace. Facebook and twitter, smart phones, tablets, and internet searches already provide data on the youth, as do things like school behavioral evaluations and test scores. TV viewing is now incorporated, and most new smart-top boxes have cameras to collect visual data. Last frontier in entertainment is gaming. XBOX One is the answer.

[Kryptix]

Just something interesting:
I played the original Deus Ex(2000)and one of the NPCs talks about how the government wants to centralize every computer into one large facility located in Area 51 that collects everyone's information.

Here's the video:
http://www.youtube.com/watc...
Start at :23

So the idea of PRISM was just a conspiracy back then but with the leaks this year, it's something that has become a reality.

We're starting to live in an age where there is a backdoor to everything and any agency can easily read all your data without leaving a trace.

I was reading about the Snowden documents and it tells about how the NSA has different methods to collect information from your browser that bypasses every virus protection. The only solution to that is something called the "Tor browser" and would suggest reading about it if you don't want your information collected while browsing.

[Kenshin_BATT0USAI]

"We're starting to live in thage where there is a backdoor to everything and any agency can easily read all your data without leaving a trace. "

I feel like just a few years ago people had a better understanding of the internet. That backdoor they open can open up to their side too. Hackers are going to be leaving bait for them and they will get caught in it causing bigger issues.

[Aleithian]

Very interesting. A large amount of what "conspiracy theorists" have said would happen has come to pass. Rhetorical speech by the media, by politicians, and by intellectuals has created a social stigma about the term "conspiracy theorist", even though the better "conspiracy theorists" are best thought of as investigative reporters. They do nothing more than report documented activities by governments and corporations. It is for us to listen and evaluate their reporting, not to label them with pejorative language, demean them, and disregard their efforts to report on the activities of the power centers in society. It's not as though the mainstream media is reporting on anything worthwhile.

We are fortunate to be living during a time in which government and corporate oppression is open for us to see, and in which there are people pointing out their oppressive acts. All we have to do is listen and evaluate. All the information is out in the open and freely available, thanks to these investigative reporters. All it requires is that we think and apply ourselves.

EDIT: For those who think the privacy issue is a non-issue, start here: https://chronicle.com/artic...

[nevin1]

lol

[gamertk421]

Sony's will be no different. Welcome to the modern world.

[Hicken]

Microsoft does something stupid, and this is always the MS fanboy response. Ever since DRM, it's been, "Sony will do the same thing."

Rather than hoping another company does it so others can feel just as screwed over, why the hell aren't you pissed that Microsoft is doing it?

[Sayai jin]

Hicken, it's not an MS or Sony thing. Any device that connects to a server, cell signal, SAT COM, etc will and has been monitored. Even if company X said our device will never monitor you they'd be lying, because even though they have no intentions on monitoring you they would not be able to stop the government knowingly or unknowingly.

Edit: @Reko - The government is monitoring almost every form of modern communication MS, Sony, Google, At&T, BMW Forums, N4G, etc. All. No company has control over that unfortunately.

[pyramidshead]

Hicken it's called the meme "Sony Too!". Where everything bad that Microsoft does apparently Sony will do it too :P.

Started off waaaay back in feb with the DRM, and used games and look how that turned out ;).

[BlackCarrot]

Find me the thread full of hate for Sony on the same ground and then perhaps your point will have credit. Otherwise, it's just another anti xbox wankfest.

[Mister_Dawg]

Why are you in denial that Sony does it too?

Besides its the bloody US government that has the final say over who, or what gets monitored.

They call themselves allies, but then go and spy on their 'friends' behind their backs. Total ball sack right there.

[Major_Glitch]

All companies spy on their consumers. The difference here is that Microsoft is the only one that's doing it while forcing a high-def camera into everyone's living rooms.

[reko]

@gamer
post a link that theyre monitoring communications.

[BitbyDeath]

Except for the whole spy camera thing.

[Sci0n]

I been to tokyo Japan twice in my life time and I can say culturally the Japanese are huge on privacy. Hell even on there porno's until this day they still blur out the private parts lol. Sony's policies definitely are different.

[BallsEye]

Really funny how everyone see sony as a knight in shiny armor. Sony monitors what you do on your console just like anyone else. That's todays world and even companies like MS got no controll over it. It's the lovely US government at most which got controll even over Japanese market and communications. You cant avoid it. Let me guess, all of you have facebook? Typical..

Oh btw, sony did make their own DRM that they threw out just after seeing MS getting eaten alive for it by consumers.

http://appft.uspto.gov/neta...

You guys are so naive.

[Deathdeliverer]

You do realize that everyone that has MMO games has DRM. That's what prevents games like Final Fantasy 14 ARR from being traded in. It ties the Disc to the account and system. (my ps3 shows up on my play online account) Your link only shows that they have DRM technology which everyone knows because they have several MMO companies. With this being from 2010 I'm sure it's a reinstatement because when I had Final Fantasy 11 on ps2 it was the same DRM thing. Point being, your link proves nothing other than they have the technology. Not how they planned to use it. That's how so many people end up dead wrong on this site. Fill in too many blanks with your own imagination and speak it like it's fact.

[Back-to-Back]

Why is this always the xbox fanboys mentality. If were going down you all are coming with us. Be a man and fight your own battles.

[MRMagoo123]

Hmmmmmmmm.......... i dont even know what to think about that really, sounds dodgy.

[PS4isKing_82]

Everything these days is recorded and monitored. It's called the digital age for a reason. Even the comments we're posting here on n4g I'm sure are being monitored.

[BitbyDeath]

So you don't mind if I come round and install a camera in your home? Everyones doin it :-p

[GrandTheftZamboni]

As long as the camera isn't analogue.

[BlackCarrot]

I'm sure a man from the NSA is reading your comments on how you dislike the Xbone and are adjusting their national security priorities accordingly.

[Debaitable]

I don't feel comfortable that the Kinect needs to be always plugged into the system for it to run.

Just going to have to make a nice cover for it.

[ElementX]

It doesn't have to be plugged in. That was changed months ago

[annus]

You'll be glad to hear they announced months ago that the Kinect doesn't have to be plugged in.

They even stated it yet again in the article:

"The company reiterated Kinect can be turned off at any time; saying “Kinect Off” will turn off the Kinect sensor, or you can simply unplug it from the console. "

[Soldierone]

There needs to be a law where if you buy a product like this and don't agree to the terms, you can agree to very basic terms that protect the asset. "You can't steal or modify this asset etc..."

Then separate would be the "we may monitor you" and all that stuff about collecting data. Here you should be allowed to opt out, but the product will still function.

The only exception should be if the service was free to access, Yahoo email for example.

The only reason we can't opt out of this is because the government does the spying and abuses their power of these companies to force us to hand them our entire life. If they had their way, we'd basically enlist in the military every time we signed up for something.

[Aleithian]

Who makes the laws, my friend?

[Soldierone]

Whoever has the most money.

[Aleithian]

@Soldierone

Not just the most money, my friend, but also the most power, most connections, most opportunities, clearest vision, and so forth. Our problems cannot be reduced to the simple equation "Money is the root of all problems." However, in general, the laws are made by a syndicate of people and institutions composed of, among others, the Federal Reserve, the Federal Government, the corporations, and interest groups, and the other centers of influence. The crucial point is, laws will not get us out of this mess, because the mess we are in has been caused by those making the laws. A political solution to our crisis is a dream. The only solution is philosophical, that is, individuals realizing the truth of their situation, and then acting accordingly.

[Back-to-Back]

"There needs to be a law where if you buy a product like this and don't agree to the terms, you can agree to very basic terms that protect the asset."

Welcome to make-believe-land
Population: You

I all seriousness if you don't accept their terms then you aren't profitable to said company.

[Soldierone]

It's not too complicated to ask for. They already tried to push a law forwards that said the Terms of agreement can't be so long. They fill it with fluff so we don't read it all. The law was basically saying to highlight the key points for users.

It failed thanks to these companies not liking the idea. It's sad that companies can make laws, but not the people.

And If I don't buy a product at all thanks to said terms, they also don't make a profit.

[torchic]

am I the only person who cannot read terms of agreement?

like I couldn't even get through this snippet of the ToA from Microsoft. from the first sentence my brain identifies what the content is and it immediately switches off

[Mikelarry]

lol sounds like the below

http://www.southparkstudios...

[seedaripper1973]

Bubbs for funny.

[Back-to-Back]

I would rather read a math book that listen to the cryptic language they use in the TOS agreements.

[deadie]

The timing of these announcements is really spot on.

[strigoi814]

you are gonna be in high definition my friend...720p is it or 1080p thats the question lolz

[PS4isKing_82]

Something I don't get about ppl talking about the kinect always watching you. Isn't most modern devices always online by being connected to 3G or wifi and also have a camera too? Couldn't they be watching you through those too just like kinect?

[BitbyDeath]

You'd know via your phone bills if video was being uploaded.

[Drewidian]

Not necessarily. There are protocols that could allow the carriers to not include traffic from a specific set of I.P. Addresses. None of the carriers charge for system text messages and if you sign up for the US Government's emergency alert services, you do not get charged for those messages either. So it would be easy for you to not notice when your phone's camera and mic are turned on and streaming.

[Gore-Content]

Wouldn't surprise me, if the US government were developing the xbone along with M$.

[Sci0n]

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_...

[u-bEttA-rUn]

OMG!!! @THE CLOUD????
OH FUCK THIS

[Playstationologist]

For this and the other 1200 reasons microsoft has given me since E3...

I present to them, the finger *the bird*

[Drewidian]

Just so you know.. Even though Sony may not advertise it, they have to do the same thing if they want to sell their consoles in the US. The rules apply to everyone. And at any time Sony chooses to refuse to cooperate, they run the risk of having their products and services banned in the US. So yeah... they'll do whatever is asked of them too.

[BobBelcher]

As a gamer- this is the only productive thing I took away from the privacy statement:

"Some game titles may allow you to use defined facial expressions to control or influence a game."

This will make survival-horror games really interesting.

But hey... I'm just a gamer.

[drsfinest72]

ok? just liek facebook and other major companies.. keep it moving folks.

[HolyDuck]

I'm just going to assume because I'm logical that if someone gets a lot of reports for sexual harassment/grooming kids that MS might listen in just to make sure, it's a reasonable assumption because I don't wear a tinfoil hat, I have nothing to hide, they can listen all they want.

[jmc8888]

http://www.techdirt.com/art...

Read up buddy, you need this education. You aren't logical, your logic is a fallacy.

That link specifically talks about the 'i have nothing to hide' EXCUSE.

Good luck.

[HolyDuck]

I live in the UK where I really don't have to worry about the NSA's surveillance, You really will believe anything you read on the internet, aye?

Plus the whole article is bs "You could of done something wrong, so you probably have" is pretty much the whole basis of that article, what a joke.

[BlackCarrot]

Nothing wrong with the information being recorded, the issue is with access to that information. It should only be accessed according to judicial oversight, probable cause for the yanks or reasonable suspicion for Commonwealth nations but the tin foil hatters on here will always bang on about their inalienable constitutional rights that were dreamed up by a bunch of old white slavers in the late eighteenth century.

[1nsomniac]

WOW!

Why is it the stupid & immature people like this are always the ones that enable our governments to get away with what they do.

Look around you there's nothing tinfoil hat about the fact that over & over & over & over & over we find out that what the "tinfoil hat" people claim more often than not ends up being true.

I'm guessing your just to young to understand that yet & how many times does it have to be proven to you that they will use what ever is available to them against you.

Take a timeout from playing with your toys & watch a single news show on any day of the week & there's again something new being reported where we the people have been removed of our rights.

I wish there was places we could send people like you so that they stop damaging everyone including their childrens lives!

It eats me up in side that the children we bring into the world will be negatively & in some cases hurt by people like you!

[Hicken]

"I live in the UK where I really don't have to worry about the NSA's surveillance,"

Do you really think the NSA gives a damn where you live? If they think you pose a threat to US interests, it won't matter if you're in the middle of the Gobi desert. It's been a few days now since news was out that the US had been spying on other world leaders, including Mexico and a few others. And not just while they were here.

What makes you safe?

Unfortunately, government institutions like the NSA have too much power, and too many people are all too willing to hand over their rights for a sense of security.

Even if you're not here in the US, you're still subject to whatever BS they try to pull.

[NikonSteve]

Does this mean the Xbone can see me touching myself even though I'm getting the PS4?!!!

[jmc8888]

Now did anyone notice how many loopholes are in that release?

How none of it addressed how the law is they have to give whatever the NSA/other agencies want or how it can be intercepted in transit?

How they are forbidden by kangaroo law that they CANNOT DISCLOSE what the NSA is doing and can lie to keep what the NSA does hidden. (just like the DEA can fake evidence in court and doesn't have to inform anybody in order to pretend they didn't get the information from an illegal wire tap...they can fake evidence and everything #truthfact)

How the release talks nothing about collecting data about your environment! It talks about the person, not anything about around the environment!

How the Kinect will do this whether you're an adult or a CHILD.

How each collection of stick figures is nearly unique, if not completely unique like a fingerprint and this stick figure data can easily be replicated and matched.

Any data that leaves the console is fair game.

Of course the facial data and unique number as well as everything else is tied to your account.

They really need to open up about what it collects from the environment, which as their own employees have spouted off that various advertisements can be tailored based off environmental data and of course this data can be logged and queried in any number of ways and sold.

It's also a marathon, not a sprint. All this will evolve and get more entrenched as the generation rolls on. Software can be updated. More companies can buy this data. (and yes the NSA will ALSO sell your data, the NSA if full on into economic espionage [ask Petrobras]..in fact they use economics as part of their justification, as well as 9/11). Hell they even spied on the freaking Pope. The excuse...economic considerations!

People really don't understand that your info is precious. It's more then someone on facebook, because the whole point is to have easily queried data that reveal the data whose buyers wish to use for their advantage. It's tied to your face. It's always pointed right at you as you're sitting in the sweet spot, with microphone always on. You can choose to be stupid and post too much info online and that's one thing. But with Kinect, you're literally continually posting information and you aren't even thinking or trying to do it. Big difference. You control whether to post some drunken message or tirade, but Kinect just keeps sending your data without a peep.

As I've said before, imagine your insurance (life, health, dental, or even your current or future employers) having a total record of the amount of coke/pepsi cans you've drank over the 10 year generation. How many times you ate at McDonalds. Drank a beer. Smoked. How many times you did ANYTHING with a logo or easily identifiable activity.

Not just this but whether it's in a uptrend, downtrend, etc. All sorts of way it can be divisible to be marketable.

This data can be used against you. If a corporation can make more money screwing you over, well by virtue of it's status as a corporation they obligated to screw you over. It's just business, and hey people want bonuses and to be promoted.

[NikonSteve]

Just keep wearing your Halloween costume every time you sign on to Live and it will be all good! Lol

[jmc8888]

One of the new things businesses are trying to do is get their employees healthy. A truly noble goal. But some people have decided that in the name of cost cutting and efficiency they would rather not employ people whose lifestyles might raise the insurance cost or lead to increased sick days of certain employees. Well butter meet bread.

It doesn't have to be just consumption of goods. It can be other things like listening for arguments which is actually in a smart TV patent. But it's applicable with Kinect.

That's where its going, if we are stupid enough to allow it.

Gov't spying + Data mining exploitation. These are two, major, massively occurring and expanding problems. It is a conspiracy, but a truthful and factual one.

The agencies are lawless. Even if the courts try to shut a single aspect down, they find a way around it. Like for instance, stealing the data from a location in another country. It doesn't make us safer, in fact it does the opposite.

People also are missing what's going on in the background. The stuff most people don't realize because they are looking at the left hand and not the right.

Right now SOME businesses are attempting to distance themselves from the NSA by complaining that the NSA and other agencies are hampering their businesses. If you notice how they are doing it, it is within bounds not to make too many waves and approaches the 'let us off the hook guys' attitude. They could do MUCH more. But that would reveal some secrets, and that would be against the law. Surely amongst all corporations involved some are completely complicit, and others not so much, nevertheless the spying is pervasive.

If we allow all this spying to continue, it will be interesting as time goes on to see the broader international effects on trade. What's interesting is what I read recently about how foreign gov'ts are catching on, and realizing that if they buy software/hardware from the U.S. or have their data traverse U.S. or other countries (such as U.K.)domiciled internet/phone lines.

That's why you have Germany telling their citizens not to use Google or Yahoo. Why you have some countries want to build their own isolated internet.

[jmc8888]

This is not good for all these companies, particularly tech companies who rely on the trust of the public to exist. Many of who also want their own smart devices out, but realize if they introduce one, they will be forced to comply with any request that may pervert the initial intention of the capabilities of their technology. Some again are fully complicit and want to be a part of the 'internet of things'. Others not so much. But in the end, where they stand doesn't change anything, the fact is that the tech is perverted either way. This is a problem for all the big high expensive tech gadgets, smart gadgets.

Since the Snowden revelations, China has literally cut in half their tech purchases from IBM.

http://www.zerohedge.com/co...

Do people think companies aren't going to suffer from this, or that these countries such as China wouldn't be making such drastic steps if it wasn't really happening?

Connect the dots, these moves from all sides, countries and corporations are real and are making impacts. Kinect just happens to have the potential to be by far the biggest, most pervasive device, and most damaging overall device. You can drive a truck through that releases loopholes and you see now WHY those loopholes exist and HOW they'll be used.

I will praise MS for allowing us to unplug it after all the uproar. But that doesn't help all the people naive or uninformed who won't. It's sad this is the world we live in.

BUT IT IS THE WORLD WE LIVE IN.

Some good articles

http://www.motherjones.com/...

http://www.washingtonpost.c...

Good running tally of Snowden revelations/etc.
http://www.zerohedge.com/co...

[seedaripper1973]

3 bubs for you sir, well said.

[BadlyPackedKeebab]

Be warned too... as they are American and based there this is "as applicable by US law" no matter where you are from. And anyone who follows things knows how much data they have opened up in the name of fighting "terrorism" (imaginary or otherwise).

/rant

[Stuart81]

If you have nothing to hide then you have nothing to worry about. I dont see what all the fuss is about to be honest.

[rezzah]

It's probably about not wanting to be controlled.

[1nsomniac]

If you actually genuinely believe what you have just said & your not just saying it for attention sake then you're an idiot!!

I have absolutely no sympathy for you what-so-ever!

[urwifeminder]

They are going to hear a hell of a lot of cheering when I play forza 5 listen to your hearts content nsa nothing to hide here.

[mhunterjr]

Gotta love the FUD.

Voice chatting in an online video game is similar to voice chatting in a public area, in the sense that.... People in the room can hear you!

I'm not sure why this is news worthy

[Knushwood Butt]

May?

lol

Not me, as I'm not buying one.

[no_more_trolling]

so why are you commenting?

[Knushwood Butt]

Because it's amusing seeing MS screw things up so badly.

Remember the PS3 launch? This sees the roles reversed, and makes for a refreshing change.

[Lacarious]

the only prob with the comparison of hte ps3 launch and the xbone launch.... the ps3 was the stronger system and survived the launch hurdles while xbone is clearly the lesser system and also did have a bad 360 launch with the $1 billion red ring of annoying death (i got 9 360's from warranty). so... there's lots of bad blood from the 360 days and the xbone is not starting out well... i'm very curious to see what type of success the xbone will have if any at all.

[Knushwood Butt]

It still amazes me that the XBOX survived the RROD disaster, but they did (by MS throwing money at it, and a clearly dedicated user base), so fair enough.

[gamer7804]

Sonys tos is very similar if you take the time to read it.

[GiantEnemyCrab]

So is just about every online privacy policy. I do not like it that is why I don't use those forms of communications for anything that is private.

[IRNMUNKEY]

So what you gonna say to the other 30 players that your scared of them hearing. Its says private Skype calls won't be monitored its just in game stuff prob so they can ban all the gay, Jew and nigger stuff all the American kids like to use!

[tudors]

I read the full article and it does not mention private chats, it appears to be more to do with group games, e.g lets say they bring out UNO for Xbox-one, anyone could record that session using DVR, they seem to be saying that public games will be monitored, there is no mention in this article that they monitor your private stuff? but this is not just a MS problem, Sony will have to adopt similar rules now that their comms is improving.

[no_more_trolling]

i think you all should throw away your cell phones then.... -__-

[sigfredod]

I don't like the sound of that

[Lykon]

ugly company

[MultiConsoleGamer]

I'm just going to drop a bomb and say there is a similar clause in the online TOS of some other rival hardware and even in the TOS of certain mobile devices.

Now the fanboys who support those companies can start saying how its good to be monitored and how they're just protecting our freedoms, the consumer and the individual from the ever present danger of the forces of Oceania.

[Red_Devilz]

"Permitted by the law"

Translation: whenever Govt will ask us we will have to open a backdoor for spying audio-video feed through Kinect. We can not disclose it to you or anyone and we can not refuse Govt to let them spy because IT IS THE F*KIG LAW

Those who disagree, try reading current news. Specifically about N SA

[FAT MAN GO BOOM]

Well said…people are in denial over the fact that MS has been leaking communications to the NSA and profiling people and data mining.

Be careful what you say it is a Brave New world

[bomboclaat_gamer]

No one is in denial. The people who are in denial are those who think that Google, Facebook and the cell phone companies are not watching them.....

This is the norm for every company today...Throw away your phone and your computer if you don't want to be watched or snooped on

Go live off the grid and feed on the land

[Sci0n]

Some are in denial, others say its no big deal they have nothing to hide and the rest say well Sony will be doing it too, unbelievable. All the bad press xbox gets there bots pull the old crabs in the bucket mentality and try to pull PS fans down too spewing false BS by saying sonys TOS will be the same when that's not true.

[GiantEnemyCrab]

Scion: No, people are just pointing out the hypocrisy. That suddenly now it's horrid when just about every online privacy statement covers the same thing.

[FAT MAN GO BOOM]

MS X1 spyware POS Germany Politician was right in warning it people not to bye the system

[bomboclaat_gamer]

Throw away your phones everyone. They are watching that too!!!

[Kenshin_BATT0USAI]

You know, this whole big brother monitoring thing wouldn't be so bad if they were just honest about it. Just say what you're doing and why you're doing it and people will agree to it if it's in their best interest.

I.e. Conscription. No BS behind it. They needed people to fight and they drafted soldiers to do so. Some bitched others didn't but everyone got over it in the end.

And given how this is a no choice sort of scenario, I think most people would want to invest in some fake addresses and fake profiles. If it becomes more than 2 google searches for them to figure out who you are then you'll be fine.

[feraldrgn]

Microsoft gonna Microsoft.

Something that's been pointed out:

[If you’re playing online “Microsoft may collect those numeric values to enable and improve gameplay and improve the gaming experience”
>>>>but the values sent to Microsoft are “destroyed after analysis is complete.”<<<<]

So the values that are sent to MS are destroyed, but the analysis is NOT.

Then we have:

[In terms of voice chat, however, the privacy statement advises users they “should not expect any level of privacy concerning your use of the live communication features such as voice chat, video and communications in live-hosted gameplay sessions offered through the Services.”
>>>>Microsoft says it may monitor communications “to the extent permitted by law,<<<<
but we cannot monitor the entire Service and make no attempt to do so.” The company reminds users that other players could record and use your communications on Xbox Live and your “communications in live-hosted gameplay sessions may also be broadcast to others.”]

Should we really take the word of Microsoft after Skype?
Or giving user data to the Goverment?
Or this?:
http://media.idownloadblog....

[KontryBoy706]

you guys in the comments can't keep damage controlling for Microsoft.

[TechMech2]

I care about games, not conspiracy theories. I want a system that can give me the best experience, and that's ps4.

[1trillindividual]

Disconnect your kinect, and just be sure you opt out of everything. If you don't know how I'm sure somebody will make a YouTube video explaining how to do so, I will be disconnecting my kinect and probably take some swings at it for fun with a baseball bat

[osprey19]

But the laws are different in other countries. So, they ll have to accommodate for that

[Sci0n]

exactly but one of the whole points of implementing NSA threw the consoles hardware is so that they can peak behind jurist diction and regional curtains while not seeming out of place and if anyone questions them they have a shoddy tos policy already in place to justify there actions.

[MCTJim]

This is no different than corporate policy..not MS policy, but real life policy...if everyone is soooo concerned over their privacy..I suggest you read the ToS of your ISP..I know I have and it makes me cringe...Same thing for google/facebook/twitter etc. Mountain out of a mole hill...nothing to see here, move along.

edit..I am not downplaying the NSA....I'm completely against the way, they(the gov't), are using it now.

[dennett316]

Don't say "bomb" and "president" around Kinect....they'll send the guys round to put a hurting on ya ;)

[Yomaster]

Imbeciles. This has everything to do with the NSA, etc., and nothing to do with Microsoft. This same circumstance applies to online gaming on ANY gaming console, including PC.

Turn off the rampant fanboyism for just a moment and use some common sense. You think your privacy is being invaded because the government can hear you trash talking on Xbox Live? Do any of you realize that your e-mails, phone/Skype calls, and web-browsing history are monitored?

Quit making this about a game console and realize it has everything to do with laws implemented by the government, and it's not just the American government, either. If you don't already know that, get educated. Google search is free, asshats.

[H0RSE]

NEWS FLASH:

Companies/organizations are already doing this with the internet, PC's, phones, and even TV's Why do so many act like MS is the sole perpetrator here? I'm not saying I agree with it, but just to inform you, here are other companies known to have participated in the PRISM program:

Google
Yahoo
Skype
AOL
Facebook
Apple

There's also evidence to suggest people phone calls were being monitor under AT&T and Verizon, so I guess you all better stop using our phones and the internet....and don't watch TV either.

Some of you also need to take the tin foil hats off, and stop insisting that MS is going to send every and all information it can on you...you're not the important - the NSA doesn't care... Even spying has laws it has to follow...

Although I don't agree with these policies, I don't really fear them either, at least on a strictly MS/xbox scale.

[Lacarious]

In short, I'd like to say, FUCK you m$!!!!

[woodyrse]

They will not be monitoring me cause I won't have one. Ps4: Privacy Station 4 life

[Lacarious]

seriously... xbone is mistake prone

[theDivision]

Aren't you allowed to just leave you kinect in the box? So as long as you didn't buy your X1 for the kinect this should affect people correct? I might have just read so many comments of people saying they wanted that I just took it as fact.

[Gamer666]

And so does Facebook, Sony, Google, Apple, etc...

This is really nothing new.

[1nsomniac]

It sounds bad of me but I genuinely hate to the very pit of my stomach people who allow this to happen & believe that so what if your doing nothing wrong it doesn't effect you!

Thats such a a pathetic & immature argument to make. If your doing something wrong you'll be caught out either way. People always have done through the entire history of the world now suddenly this isnt possible anymore unless we have equipment watching & listening in to us 24x7x365 - You're idiots & the're is nothing tinfoil hat about that!

[Jamaicangmr]

That made me cringe a little.

[brewin]

I love my Xbox 360, but this kinect crap is the reason I refuse to buy an Xbone. Sell One without Kinect for $399 and Ill get one, but I refuse to pay for something that can and will be used to monitor ,y communications. I got rid of my smartphone for this reason and I can damn sure hold out on a new Xbox.

[Jyndal]

This is the world we live in now. Privacy is an illusion, and freedom is only for those that can afford it.

[ps4lifesucka]

want to save 100 dollars?! buy a ps4 insead

[phoenix_dusk]

Scary tbh.

[Droidbro]

What is everyone bitching about? There's no longer any expectation of privacy for cell phone use and email. Why would this be any different?

[zumokari]

I don't get why people get all worked up. I've got nothing to hide. I don't mind if the NSA listens to me pwning newbs.

[Brad13186]

If Microsoft wants to know why I will have a PS4 under my TV in 2 weeks, after 6 years of being a 360 owner, This is why.

[Mogwai]

Gawd knows why anyone wants this monitoring device peice of schiza!

[GiantEnemyCrab]

I am with most people that this sucks! But I never use these things for private/personal conversations that I would not discuss on the street.

But please don't pretend that this doesn't exist on just about every privacy statement their is when it deals with online communications. This is not unique or even started by Microsoft. So if you hate this please throw away your smart phone, laptop and any device that has a camera because the same thing can happen.

[Thomaticus]

No one is monitoring anything in my home... I'll just have to DisKinect this Xbox 1 console.

[akurtz]

But, i like my constitution

[thexmanone]

Only on N4G

[silvacrest]

im sure microsoft said during their great 720 backstep, that the one would not monitor you through kinetic or other methods? but a few weeks from launch and we get this?

im not a criminal and have nothing to hide other then embarrassing stuff but i still value my privacy enough to not support this

[Codey47]

Harold Finch would be proud of M$' snooping algorithms, right about now.

[calvincrack]

The patriot act. Read it.

[Codey47]

Leo Tolstoy's War and Peace. Read it.

[Demobot]

I say go for it. To all the people that think racist comments are funny and cool I hope you get exposed.

[memots]

Not happening in this house.