Xbox One Employee: GDDR5 Is Uncomfortable To Work With, ESRAM Provides High Bandwidth At Low Power

Microsoft opted for 8GB DDR3 RAM for the Xbox One but according to them the on board ESRAM will provide the right balance of bandwidth and power.

[Xwow2008]

Its funny how MS defend inferior technology ;)

[ZodTheRipper]

It's even funnier that they think people can be fooled so easily. You can confuse parents and kids with this kind of stuff but people on the internet (and especially on gaming websites) are way to knowledgeable to believe this gibberish.

[black0o]

Dear MS it's the Other Way Around ...

[GameNameFame]

It actually is a far more pain to actually use esram.

Esram is 32 mb and is not actually fully 200 gb/s bandwidth. It is 100 write and 100 read. Unlike PS4 which does 180 on write and 180 on read.

Biggest problem here is that for X1. You are going to spend alot of time, power and bandwidth just to break gigantic files into smaller 32 mb so esram can use it.

In otherwords, for X1, you have to pre process files to process them. You use bandwidth twice and use your processor to do this. Result is inefficiency.

Files now days are almost 20-40 gig. Imagine chopping those into thousands of 32 mbs depending on situation... alot of pre work.

PS4 you just load it on ram and use it. high efficiency.

[tuglu_pati]

"Xbox One Dev: GDDR5 Is Uncomfortable To Work With, ESRAM Provides High Bandwidth At Low Power"

Oh uh - no he didn't!

[dedicatedtogamers]

"they think people can be fooled so easily"

But they HAVE fooled people so easily. They're Microsoft. They've been doing exactly that for the last 20 years. When your consumer base is full of people who - for example - get RRoD multiple times and yet stay loyal, why wouldn't you just steamroll over them? When your consumer base is full of people who - for example - have already forgotten how Microsoft behaved for the first half of 2013, why wouldn't you just lie to them and distract them with shiny lights?

[GiggMan]

"You can reduce the bandwidth on external memory – that saves a lot of power consumption as well and the commodity memory is cheaper as well so you can afford more."

Well why didn't Microsoft (a) make the console cheaper than the competition or (b) add more than 8GB of memory?

[Eonjay]

"GDDR5 Is Uncomfortable To Work With"

Nvidia and AMD would beg to differ. Having more bandwidth on larger capacity RAM actually makes high end graphics easier. There comment cannot be defended because it is the opposite of logic.

Not only does ESRam add a complex step of micro managing memory; having only 32MB insures that Xbox One will never see 4K gaming of any consequence due to the fact that it is too small to contain a single 4K frame which would be at least 63MB in size.

http://www.amd.com/us/produ...

[givemeshelter]

The problem is the majority of people who buy consoles are not interested in "sepcs" and the kind of RAM these systems offer. The only people that care would be gamer's and enthusiasts like us on this site. Unfortunately we make up the minority and not the majority.
If this were not the case systems like the 3D0 and the NEO Geo and even the PS3 would have blown the doors off the other systems in sales all around by miles. The common consumer who represents the bulk of the buying for consoles knows squat about these technical specifications let alone differences in bandwidth and RAM. It's all alien to them.
I wish this were not the case, however it is and one of the reasons no console that had the most power ever won a console generation. It always comes down to games and price.

Now Sony has hit it out of the park in my opinion with the PS4 because the system offers the most power for a console system on paper AND it's cheaper then its direct competition.
WIN, WIN.
Price matters and Microsoft unless they drop the price to match the PS4, expect some hurt in the MS camp come holiday season.

LOL LOL I am getting disagrees for stating the truth.
People actually think the common consumer is talking about the bandwidth and speed differences between these different RAM protocols? LMAO!
I love this site! No wonder it's laughed at so much :-P

[jgrigs09]

Do kids really worry about that? No, they don't. They want to play games and enjoy. They could careless, they don't fap to technology like most of the people on here.

[shoddy]

Powa of teh clowd gonna make ddr5 obsolete.

Joke

[xHeavYx]

" Xbox one dev" stopped reading right there

[JokesOnYou]

Well first this is OLD NEWS already posted
http://n4g.com/news/1368003...

@Eonjay
"Not only does ESRam add a complex step of micro managing memory"

-Nah, not saying he's right or wrong about DDR3+eSRAM being the better route vs GDDR5 but eSRAM is a natural evolution of eDRAM which devs have been using quite well for years on 360. In fact if you read it they both work the same however eSRAM is just a progression of eDRAM that quote: "we could clean up a lot of the limitations that we had with the eDRAM"
http://www.eurogamer.net/ar...

[Pogmathoin]

Its funny how you expect us to believe petty fanboys but not developers, programmers...

[dmeador]

Even funnier to think that parents and kids (I think you mean the people who aren't following every bit of tech news) will have any idea (or give a dang) what GDDR5 is. Heck most people don't even know what ram really does.

They dont care, they just want games to look and play great. Unless they look significantly better/worse than the PS4 it doesn't matter

[alexkoepp]

@GameNameFame

"Files now days are almost 20-40 gig. Imagine chopping those into thousands of 32 mbs depending on situation... alot of pre work. "

I like how 47 people agreed with this comment, please show me the files that are 20-40 gigs in size... you don't know what you are talking about and obviously many others here don't either...

@EonJay

"Not only does ESRam add a complex step of micro managing memory; having only 32MB insures that Xbox One will never see 4K gaming of any consequence due to the fact that it is too small to contain a single 4K frame which would be at least 63MB in size"

Sony has already stated the PS4 cannot do games in 4K, Microsoft has stated there is nothing preventing it should a developer choose to use it.

[Eonjay]

@Jokes

I don't think you understand the point. Regardless of what EsRam can do or how it has evolved, its very existence MEANS that you have an extra step of complexity intrinsic to the fact that you HAVE to write code to manage it. It you are working on the PS4, you just drop your resources into the pool of GDDR5 ram.

The GDDR5 approach sounds much more comfortable.
The added complexity of the memory system on the Xbox One presents no advantages or benefits to developers.

[Aceman18]

@zod

You didn't know that here in America how people get fooled pretty damn easily?

Hmm I've read countless articles from numerous 3rd party devs who said the system is super easy to develop for and now I'm suppose to take the word of some Microsoft lackey?

Ok buddy if you say so. Did anyone read the comments on that article claiming they haven't read these the articles where 3rd parties said otherwise?

These are the people who live in lala land.

[Eonjay]

@alexkoepp

While it is doubtful that the PS4 could have complex environments in 4K, the situation is even bleaker for the Xbox One. Find out what a frame buffer is, then come back and we can hash this out. Where in the actually eff would the Xbox store a frame buffer for a 3840 pixels × 2160 pixel resolution frame? How much memory does that kind of frame take up?

Hint: The math is 3840*2160*8/1024/1024 (In Megabytes)

The DDR3 pool is the only thing large enough to contain the frame. So now since you have to compare DDR3 speed directly to GDDR5 speed (and GPU power to GPU power), what seems more likely? Who among us is uninformed enough to believe that the PS4 can't do 4K gaming, but the vastly slower system can?

Its not about picking sides; its about respecting the truth.

[WarThunder]

WOW! hahaha! who believes what MS says must be brainless fool...

[Cueil]

wow... the ignorance of people on N4G takes another step forward... I understand you don't believe him, but don't pretend to know what you're talking about

[JokesOnYou]

lol, game creation is filled with thousands of steps,(coding etc) some are very minor in nature, some are major steps, all of course are important but what I do know as has been stated is that ALL developers who created games for 360 last gen are used to developing xbox games utilizing eDRAM/eSRAM. In fact its well known even with this "complexity" as you call it the xbox 360 was said to be very easy to develop for, so it seems you want to introduce a issue where there is none.

Now if what you mean is that ps4 development is more straight forward then OK, fine at the same time as micro architects believe there is a bandwidth and low power consumption advantage by utilizing DDR3+eSRAM combination so clearly at least from Microsoft point of view just a straight forward approach wasn't ideal(balanced) therefore eSRAM was a better choice and does not ADD anymore complexity than last gen so why not go that route???? Again I have no idea which is in FACT the best, generally I'm prone to believe both strategies in regards to RAM have their pro's and con's (historically it always works that way) but I'm stating this is micro's logic for their decision, you may disagree, call it PR or whatever but your OPINION that their strategy has no "advantages or benefits to developers", well that's not surprising its expected on this site that anything in favor of Microsoft will be doubted but fortunately you aren't a 1st or 3rd party developer for X1 and you are NOT in any creditable position to know this. Which is why, although I don't take micro's claims as fact, I definitely view most n4g folks spewing matter of fact type claims on yet unreleased products really as just useless unsubstantiated talk to support their agenda.

[Eonjay]

@Jokes

Your long winded response is littered with credible points. Also, you are right to say that people often present opinions as facts. Thats why I always encourage people to educate themselves before engaging in a debate. Only then can you establish who is credible and who is not. I openly engage in flame wars because I enjoy it. I like the debate and I find that when you encounter people who are informed, everyone can benefit from a gain in knowledge and perspective.

I am an independent developer, so when I give technical commentary, I do so from an informed and educated frame of reference. When I say that a unified pool of memory is easier to work with, its because I have experience programming and I have the educational background in computer architecture to make such a claim.

I do like your fighting spirit however and I do appreciate you actually using technical arguments/references to make your points.

[loulou]

pure click/flamebait. gamingbolt know what their audience wants on n4g.

if you read the whole interview on digital foundry, the guy was speaking in terms of heat and power. nothing to do with how difficult it is to work with.

gamingbolts flamebait should be banned

[scott182]

The 8 gb of GDDR5 in the PS4 is making Microsoft devs uncomfortable about what they are working with.

There, I fixed the title.

[ceed911]

You realize that none of you people matter though right? All they need to do is fool the kids and parents, the average consumers.

You have no idea how much of a minority N4G is and the rest of "hardcore gamers", we don't make a difference, we don't make the company profitable.

Sony/Microsoft care more about the bros who only buy games like FIFA, Madden, and Call of Duty. They care about little kids wanting the Kinect or the Move and having fun motion games so parents buy the systems.

You and I are nothing. Like it or not none of this tech talk matters.

[Ju]

@Eonjay, why x8 ? A Pixel - assuming we use RGB32 - is 32 bits wide, which makes this x4 = 4 bytes per pixel. With that said, a frame would roughly fit into a 32MB buffer. It's a bit unclear to me if a complete FB needs to fit into ESRAM, though, but true, it is very unlikely, this will ever be used in games - at least not if you want to draw more than a couple of stick figures and use more than one buffer.

Also, MS added a "VRAM-MMU". The HW can "virtualize" the ESRAM into DDR which can make it look like a 8 GB pool. But still, with that, I doubt the full bandwidth will be available. At least it makes it easier to map memory into esram. Paging to and from ESRAM is done by the MoveEngines, no CPU or GPU data transfer needed - but yet again, all it really gives you is taking r/w ops away from CPU or GPU (so helps you with ALU) but it still will use memory bandwidth.

All in all, MS screwed up. If the goal was to use all this to make a cheaper machine, they failed. XBone is $100 more expensive. If the other goal is to make the more powerful machine, they failed here again. PS4 is more powerful.

It's all smart engineering, but it took them too long to get it too market and Sony passed them laughing out of the window. Lucky for them the GDDR gamble paid off.

[tordavis]

While GDDR5 is faster than DDR3, none of this should matter to us gamers. We aren't making games, we are playing them. Just show me the games!

[DigitalRaptor]

Hmmm who am I going to believe?

Eonjay - an independant developer with experience...

or loulou, JokesOnYou - known Microsoft/Xbox fanboys...

Who am I going to believe?

Developers coming out with clarification to Sony's PR that unified memory is superior to ESRAM....

or a Microsoft employee outright lying to people and trying to push it as fact....
-

Yeah, it's funny how those loyal to Microsoft are under their spell in a ridiculous way. It's kinda like this sort of deceit was made for their ears only. Dear me.

[CrazyJ]

@Eonjay
Your math is wrong..
With consumer 4K(which really isn't 4K but rather 2160p)
Resolution(2160p) 3840*2160 = 8294400 pixels
Bytes per pixel for 24 bit color is 3 bytes or 24bits/8bits per byte = 3 bytes.
So total memory for just the framebuffer would be 8294400 * 3 = 24883200 bytes
convert that to kilobytes 24883200/1024 = 24300KB
and lastly convert that to megabytes
24300/1024 = 23.73046875MB

32MB > 24MB last time I checked.

If we use 32bits per pixel or 4 bytes we get
3840*2160*4/1024/1024 = 31.640625MB which pretty much is 32MB.

4K is really a terrible term since it only technically specifies the horizontal resolution was only primarily used for cinema and video production. Just for fun lets do the math using the largest standard 4K resolution.
Full aperture 4K or (4096 × 3112)
MB = 4096*3112*3/1024/1024 = 36.46875MB
So unless you were talking about Full aperture 4K then the XBOne should have no trouble using it's esram to store the framebuffer if that's what they'll even use it for.

[loulou]

lol digitalraptor you droids get your marching orders and then dont stop.

http://www.eurogamer.net/ar...

have a look, read what is said. the guy is an architect not a dev. and this wrote especially for droids like you rubbish is exactly that.

the power difference between the two next-gen consoles is not in doubt. but gamingbolts flamebait is.

eonjay. wtf are you doing on here?? you could hit any random site and find a better community. people in the business dont post on here.

this is the western front of the console wars

[kickerz]

How I see it on N4G, whenever I see a comment with heaps of disagrees it usually means it's quite a truthful, honest statement. And if u get heaps if agrees your usually just dribbling $hit. Just dosnt make sense.

[Deadpoolio]

Low information people can be fooled by M$ and their BS talk....They know nothing about consoles or computers so they believe anything they are told

[nveenio]

The only teams who will use any system to the max capacity are Sony's first-party teams. Microsoft's first-party titles don't even push their system further than the third party titles. So for anyone looking for more than another MS title, Sony is still the place to look.

[AAWELLS09]

Give me a full in depth run down of RAM, like what it does, what its made of, and the differences in DDR3 and 5. Explain in detail why its better to use PS4's RAM versus X1's.

[ShinMaster]

That's like the opposite of what game developers have been saying.

[Dee_91]

These are not the droids you are looking for.

[P0werVR]

What's truly funny is how folks on here fool themselves into thinking people really waste there time trying to fool them.

Microsoft don't care about you, you've already made your mind up. Microsoft care about the people who are going to use their console, and when they get it that they won't be disappointed.

@Deadpoolio

As you can tell by my pic I've been playing games for quite a while and have been through so many platforms. No platform better than the PS2 era, but this time around I feel Xbox One is the console to go.

I can assure you I i know a thing or two about consoles and computers and imo, I believe Xbox One is better. Of course not better first party games, but a better console overall.

[pixelsword]

I'm trying to stay out of the power thing by basically stating that the games will tell the tale, but as far as I know, none of their big ticket games are 1080p except

Forza@1080p

so I am thinking that it's not so easy to use that ram in that configuration; but the PS4 has

Killzone@1080p
DC@1080p
Knack@1080p
Infamous@1080p
Resogun@1080p

Now I'm not saying that the xbone can't do 1080p because that's stupid with Forza staring at me that I just wrote, but since there's less 1080p games right now for the xbone, it tells me that the xbone might just be a little harder to squeeze to get that power out.

[Rhythmattic]

Powervr

Many here " believe " your out right wrong.

[SilentNegotiator]

This is ridiculous. It's just a Microsoft employee trashing a superior type of RAM because they aren't using it.

@Pixelsword
Killzone has been confirmed 1080p, but what sources do you have confirming the other ones?

[Evilsnuggle]

Please name one high end graphic cards using eSRAM . Name one high end graphic workstation from film that users small pools of eSRAM. You cannot because they don't they all use large pools of gddr5. Worst that 32 mb eSRAM is not 1 pool.

[da1writer]

@silentNegotiatior

Knack @1080p -
https://twitter.com/digital...

DriveClub @1080p -
http://gamingbolt.com/drive...
^DriveClub is also striving for 60fps before the PS4 is released -
http://www.playstationlifes...

Resogun @1080p/60fps -
http://www.eurogamer.net/ar...

Can't find anything about second son though...

[SilentNegotiator]

@da1writer

Ahh, thanks. I only looked up Infamous and assumed he didn't have any sources for any of the others since that one had none (except I knew about KZ).

Now that I think about it, though, I think I had heard before about Driveclub being 1080p native.

Bubble up for being helpful

[memots]

Sound about the same when MS said Blu-ray was not needed then went out and backed Hd-DVD.

[MazzingerZ]

That's a dev problem, at the end of the dat they have to develop a quality game, don't really care how hard they work or if the work overtime without salary

If the game is awesome it will sell well, if it's bad and buggy won't get our money regardless the reasons behind it

These news feel more about a person's preference than a real problem with the X1

[saber00005]

@givemeshelter, the reason why we care about specs is because it won't hold game developers back from creating better games, in the future, for the console. People say specs aren't anything... They really are..

[Chrischi1988]

I disagree, people on PC gaming websites know better, but on console gamer websites, there is so much misleading information and wannabee experts.

[pixelsword]

Oh, someone beat me to it; As far as Infamous, here's a comment from Digital Foundry:

"At a confirmed 1080p resolution as well, Sucker Punch's latest is the most polished and CGI-like title on display. It looks gorgeous in play, with its per-object motion blur being up to God of War: Ascension's lofty bar of quality, and the character's pyromaniac moves bringing out the developer's sterling effects work. The visual standard is unlike anything we've seen achieved on PS3: Delsin swaps to a smoke form in the blink of an eye while lunging at opponents with fiery fists, lit particles fly, and the billows light up brightly with each flaming swipes. Heat haze effects also make an appearance, making every punch and glide a sight to behold."

http://www.eurogamer.net/ar...

I seldom pull bull when it comes to talking about specs of a game, PC, or console; if I say it, you guys can pretty much take it to the bank that I at least heard it from a website that claims to have had a hands-on experience with a game. I don't lionize consoles or games or pretty much anything unless it's clear that I'm joking.

[Godmars290]

How when they defended going with DVD instead of HDDVD or Blu-Ray for the 360? They've done nothing but defend and compensate for it ever since.

[JokesOnYou]

Actually 99% of 360 games released on DVD without the need of a 2nd DVD. Last gen only solidified the idea that HD DVD and Blu Ray was NOT NEEDED for gaming as it would have been a added cost that wasn't necessary to make 99% of the games released last gen. The proofs in the pudding, Sony successfully used ps3 as a Trojan horse for bluray, but even ps3 exclusive games didn't offer or anything that wasn't possible on a DVD. Cleary this gen with games requiring substantially much more space than last gen from a practical standpoint although possible lol, it would not make sense to use DVD.

As for the GDDR5 vs DDR3+eSRAM claim I have no idea whether they are right but it won't matter much really, most multiplats will be almost identical and both are plenty powerful to make great exclusive games. Majority of gamers will see Ryse and say "Holy crap that looks like an awesome next gen game." The same majority will see KZ SF and say "Wow, that looks amazing"....and just like that folks are going to buy either console or both based on THE GAMES THEY LIKE MOST, not specs and if they truly can't live without knowing they have the latest and greatest cutting edge graphics regardless of gaming preference then they are going to buy or update their gaming PC.

btw this is OLD news with 1 quote taken out of context from a very well done Eurogamer interview that has already been posted, usually I see mods/members report similar news submissions.
http://n4g.com/news/1368003...

[jeffgoldwin]

Or when ps2 defended no hard drive (used memory cards) or no ethernet port to connect to the internet. Same concept.

[Godmars290]

JokesOnYou:
Except that 1% were high profile, high demand titles such as Halo, Forza and GTA. With each of those series either workarounds were introduced or full on system upgrades were done. Are examples of exactly why the choice was a bad one, unlike the ten score copies of the Battleship FPS, a remake of Blinx or Barbie's Dream Adventure.

@jeffgoldwin:
What are you even talking about. That was an entirely different console generation were DVD was actually high end media storage and the internet wasn't so prevalent. Devs didn't have the luxury of updates to compensate for the release of a half finished game.

You may as well try pointing out the shortcomings of Windows 8 during the 1970s. The ineffectiveness of black and white film during the 1920s.

[Death]

Godmars,

What exactly do you think Blu-ray did for the PS3? GTAV had one less disc in the case thanks to the power of Blu-ray. Wow, on the Xbox 360 you needed to insert the install disc one time. Biggest, largest budget game to date and that is the difference. What exactly did you see this gen? MGS's 50 gig Blu-ray that was actually 9 gigs installed to the HDD? PC's smoke PS3 and Xbox 360 graphics, how many games came out on Blu-ray to do this? Blu-ray is a storage medium. It won't make games look better, it makes it so you can make games longer in theory. The problem was a good part of that data needed installed to the HDD to work. Blu-ray on the PS3 was too slow and not efficient. If anything it hurt games more than it helped. You want fanboy to quit defending Microsoft's decision to not force Blu-ray on them, please enlighten us with what it did.

As for Halo, Forza and GTA needing the second install disc, not a bad trade off for the amount of HDD storage saved from mandatory installs from Blu-ray. DVD9 games could play entirely off the disc. Not the same for Blu-ray.

[JokesOnYou]

Godsmars what are these work arounds you speak of? Skyrim is one of the biggest games ever in terms of content and gameplay hours its also been praised for its open world graphics, and note its an open world game which if any game should suffer from work arounds due to multiple disc it would be open world games. The games you speak were done that way by choice and again the fact that you acknowledge ONLY 1% of games needing 2 discs only hurts your case that Bluray was NEEDED, it might be hard for you to admit but that simple statistic proves it wasn't and don't pretend that's because only Barbie games fit on 1 disc when tons of the most highly rated and successful games this gen shipped on 1 disc.
http://www.destructoid.com/...

"Simply put, this is a beautiful game. The scenery on display here is almost unparalleled in the genre. From scenic viewpoints atop snowy mountains to the rushing streams and waterfalls I found myself often just stopping and admiring for a while." Here just read about what Skyrim accomplished on ONE DISC, if Bethesda can do this, then that speaks to devs making choices for their games instead of being limited by DVD format:
http://www.metacritic.com/g...

[Magicite]

Lol Lost Odyssey was 4 DVD's!
Jokesonyou always writes walls of texts and gets shitloads of disagrees, even when he actually says truth, pathetic :D.

[_FantasmA_]

JokesOnYou has been fooled. Man what a puppet you are. And all your Xbot boyfriends give you bubbles all day for the crap you say. I don't blame them though, I mean they have lots of free time because there's nothing to play on their BroBoxes.

[Godmars290]

@JokesOnYou:
"Godsmars what are these work arounds you speak of?"

Removing 2GB of erroneous security codes on DVDs to allow for more space. Allowing for HDD installs. Separating SP and MP modes to different discs so that 360's w/o HDD could play either mode. The current Xbox is radically different from the one which was originally released. It's limitations directly impacting some games on the PS3 and PC.

[rainslacker]

Is it possible the games were not made as big because of the DVD size limit? There's something called the lowest common denominator, and in some cases games were built for them. In others, more features were added to the blu-ray versions. In other cases, some of the bigger games of the gen came in quite large...particularly those exclusive 1st parties from Sony.

Saying that the space wasn't needed is being naive. The games were tailored around the space available. I highly expect that next gen, games will see a sudden boost in disc size since the limitation of a smaller format is no longer around. Coincidental since it's just a new gen? I highly doubt it.

As to the article, generally the less a programmer has to work with, or around, the simpler it is to work with. Cache memory is an extra step. Doesn't make ESRAM bad by any measure, just means the architect is really grasping at straws.

While reading the article, I wondered to myself why the developers would give a rats ass about power consumption of the console. That's a system architects problem, and for the most part, people aren't too concerned about such matters while playing games. It would appear to me that Sony isn't worried about power consumption given the size of the case. It's small enough that the power has to be low in order to allow for proper heat dissipation.

But yeah, lets ignore the many devs who said the PS4 is awesome to work with and follow suit with an architect of it's competition.

[nosferatuzodd]

lol good one MS hey everyone look! it's aprils fool day today lol

[OlgerO]

Funny that this is coming from an xbox one dev because all other devs dont seem to have a problem with it.

[max0583]

It just came across my head.a large amount of people here talk tech and say how easy it is to ''dump everything on the GDDR5''and everything is solved.I ask myself how many people here make games.everyone seem to know how to developed for Xb1 and PS4.all you guys are surely making games.

[True_Samurai]

Are you a Dev? No? Than move along cause I doubt you know as much as me as and I have no idea what's it all about :p

[wishingW3L]

the reason the PS4 has 8GB of unified GDDR5 it's because that's what developers wanted. But if you put slow memory like DDR3 then you would have to speed it up with esRam to not bottleneck the available bandwidth for the GPU but then that wouldn't be "unified memory" anymore.

http://www.vg247.com/2013/0...

Cerny: "My first tour of the developers, I had a questionnaire where I just asked them their thoughts on what the next generation might bring. The largest piece of feedback we got was that they wanted unified memory.”

[Ezz2013]

hmmmmmmmm, amazing how not a single Dev is saying any thing bad about ps4 and nothing but praise ....because Cerny made sure to make what all dev's wanted

and the only dev who is saying unified GDDR5 Ram is Uncomfortable.....is xbox dev -__-

i wonder why i that ?! hmmmmmmm

*Detective Mode Activite*

[Hicken]

Just because you're ignorant on the subject, True_Samurai, doesn't mean everyone else is. And you don't have to be a dev to understand. That's just a quick excuse you guys use to try and discredit anybody who actually DOES know what's being talked about, so that you can pretend you're on the same level.

[True_Samurai]

^^^^ than explain. It's easy to talk when you "Google" on the subject and "pretend" you know about the matter. Unless you have the hardware and is working on projects with GDDR5 or eSRAM. than I can say you guys don't know jack shit about the matter

[Ezz2013]

so much fail

again you still didn't show me a link to one dev who is saying anything bad about ps4 hardware

all of those dev's don't know any thing about hardware
and that one "xbox" dev know better than the rest
right ?!

[DigitalRaptor]

Man so much non-existent factual representation in an argument. The Xbox guys are so desperate this time around to justify something that is factually inferior.

Some people can't face that generations are different, companies make different decisions each generation. Sony remedied all problems of PS3 from a technical and hardware architecture standpoint. Cerny was lead architect for a reason, as the SCE hardware team understood where PS3 went wrong in terms of developer and user satisfaction from an extremely early point. http://www.youtube.com/watc...

PS4 was made with developer input from its inception. What makes you believe that Cerny's approach would not be the best for developers?

[come_bom]

Got to love fanboys! They sure like talking out of their a**, even if they don't understand one bit of what the guy from the article is saying.

[solidboss07]

The article is full of shite. PS4 is a GPU centric console using GPU centric memory.
XBone is a weaker GPU centric console using CPU centric memory accompanied with a cluster fuck of stupid design choices, such as esram.

[IcicleTrepan]

@solidboss07 I know for a fact you have no idea what you're talking about. RAM + EDRAM/ESRAM has been a well known and accepted good design for years and Microsoft did not come up with that idea. So before you say something stupid, do some research.

[max0583]

Yes,I agree.and all the developers saying how PS4 is faster are working on PS4 games.they have not touched XB1.So until they make a XB1 game I'll take this for what it is

[corvusmd]

What's most funny is how PS Fanboys know nothing about how hardware works, yet are constantly fooled by how one number is bigger than another, and therefore ASSUME it's better without knowing any of the other details. Not to mention that despite "being 50% more powerful and easier to make games for" PS4 can't produce ANY games that look better than XB1 games...NOW is the time we should see the most difference. PS4 is supposed to be easier to develop for on an already well known and more powerful GPU right? So what's the hold up? The system with the mysteries of power and performance to unlock is the XB1...and it's already looking the same if not better in some cases. You throw in a VASTLY superior network service and an actually innovative peripheral that is impressing any nay-sayer that uses it....and that's a much better system. But her' it's all about games right :gaming-console" fans? So if you love PS4 exclusives and HATE XB1 exclusives, then by all mean, stay with PS4 (and pretend you're still true gamers). Throw all the number specs out there that you want, the proof is what shows up on screen, and your argument loses there. Cry and whine all you want, I'll never see it, I've learned not to respect a PS fanboys opinion because they never include facts, it always just resorts to attacking a person for disagreeing with them. Hating an XB1 makes no sense if you are a true gamer, if you don't like any exclusives, and don't want to play on a better network for cross-platform games, then by all means, PS4 is your better choice...but all the "hate" for XB1 is so see-through.

[GrandpaSnake]

You are not going to convince fan boys, let alone claiming the xbone has the better network is bait for them as well. I'm not just a "gamer" im a "tech head" but i can see your biased towards the xbone plain as day. Honest question here, what makes the xbox live network so superior to what playstation is offering with ps+? We all now xbox live doesnt pay for dedicated servers on 360, is it the UI? do you believe because microsoft created windows decades ago their UI will be better? IMO the xmb for the playstation is far more accessible and customizable. Just so you know, I'm microsoft A+ certified.

[Ezz2013]

Funny how you call ps4 fans have no idea what they are talking about
yet there is the specs to back them up and the dev's as well
and yet, you have nothing but bad PR from MS
to believe so you can feel happy about your self

and pretty much every single dev have nothing but praise about ps4 hardware
name one developer outside this "XBOX" dev who is saying any thing bad about ps4 hardware ?!

i will wait ...

as for the rest of your comment about games,online etc...that's only your opinion
which is something i really don't care about

[Jaqen_Hghar]

A man connects to online games and downloads his PS+ games just fine on PSN and has all the apps he wants. What makes XBL so much better? Also Infamous is already the best looking next gen game and it's open world. The Order, ND's game, and SSM's game will show the superiority just like this gen it will be first party studios. Also KZ is the best looking launch game in a man's opinion.

[givemeshelter]

You're just as bad as those PS fanboys you speak of...

[Aceman18]

I can see why you only have two bubs, you say a set of fanboys think they know what they're talking but you are acting like a fanboy who refuses to listen what actual 3rd party devs are saying since they know what they are talking about.

Not one devs has said the PS4 is hard or a pain to develop for, I think you and the others who think they know better than the devs themselves make yourselves look like fools.

[n4rc]

been saying this for awhile now...

if every sony warrior is right, and the x1 is so garbage in comparision.. then why the hell arent sony's games blatantly better?

you can try to understand these specs and twist them however you wish.. it doesnt hide the plainly obvious fact that both are producing nearly identical games

[DigitalRaptor]

Wow. A wall of text of blind nonsense that has been proven inaccurate and downright misinformed TIME and TIME again.

"VASTLY superior network", eh? Where are your FACTS to back this up? Or have your fact run out... again?

"Hating an XB1 makes no sense if you are a true gamer"

Are you too caught up in your defence charade against PS4 that you can't see that it's not XB1 that people are more concerned with, it's Microsoft people have beef with. True gamers don't support anti-consumer corporations - it's as simple as that.
--

@ n4rc

"if every sony warrior is right, and the x1 is so garbage in comparision.. then why the hell arent sony's games blatantly better? "

Like corvusmd, if you weren't so caught up in your defense, you'd see that most of the hate stems from Microsoft, but in relation to your question, PS4 games are blatantly better (sample gameplay gifs included).

Killzone: Shadow Fall -> 1080p/60fps in multiplayer. open-world style gameplay, expansive and detailed environments, impressive particle effects and lighting, highly detailed character models. https://copy.com/vx8N7u3MG4...

inFamous: Second Son -> 1080p/60fps. open-world game, incredible animations, great detail, impressive particle effects, dynamic weather and lighting (day and night), environmental destruction, tight fluid gameplay and incredible visuals and animations. http://farm4.staticflickr.c...

And that is mentioning just two of Sony's super-talented first party roster.

[t3rrorc3ll]

@n4rc albeit at completely different resolutions. One is full HD for most games the other is always sub HD with drama even maintaining 30fps

[LordDhampire]

Yeah honestly @corvusmd, you make it seem like you know nothing about hardware....if You knew anything you wouldn't all for microsofts smoke and mirrors, I don't know if your just a complete fanboy or your just ignorant.

Specs don't like and you of all people if your know anything about hardware works that ram isn't as important as everyone is making it out to be they both will get the job done, they both have pretty much identical cpu's with a higher clock speed on xbone, that leaves just the gpu the backbone of any gaming system......they have identical generation of gpus the ps4 just has a higher shader count, the ps4 won't be 50% faster but there is no denying it will be faster

and the problem with the xbone is microsoft not the hardware, games and games, but all microsoft does it recycle the same games over and over, they didn't start listening to what the gamers want until they realised how bout a situation they were in, I guess they got cocky because of fans likes you who through 3 RROD still just went out and blindly bought new ones instead of holding microsoft accountable.

and if launch games from the past should show anything it shouldn't be the difference between games, launch games always have been terrible, it won't be until games have some time to be optimised and companys know how to work on the hardware, yeah it might be easier hardware but most these console developers have been straight console developers and don't know how to work on the hardware.

[Christopher]

As a programmer, I'm laughing my ass off right now.

This is akin to Sony saying the PS3 is easier to develop for than the 360. Just... utterly laughable.

[Pogmathoin]

Cgoodno, i am a genius, i laugh at all of you... So there.... Guess i will not get many agrees like the mental case who said X1 has a power brick...... Typifies this site... An asylum....

[DistroyerOfFanbums]

I agree, it's also ironic that this time the XB1 is more like the PS3 and the PS4 more like the 360 as far as having the better GPU/unified architexture(PS4/360)
Complicated architexture, Move engines/Cell Processors harder to program for(XB1/PS3)

Moreover, no one can say anything on this site about what's better any what's not. Unless you've worked on both of these consoles your words on the matter is like a cup with wholes in it, it holds no water.. All people who say one is better then the other are fans of that console. We have to wait and see what the games would look like and perform. Only then can we make a valuable conclusion :)

[Godmars290]

But isn't this MS saying the exact thing?

"On paper we have the weaker hardware, but don't underestimate our system because we say so?"

And as many times "easier to program for" was used the only thing that amounted to were how multiplatform titles looked on the 360. And even then there were exceptions. Meanwhile PS3 titles often set general performance benchmarks despite repeatedly stated handicaps.

So now after asking developers what they want in a game console the PS4 is now "easier to program for" while MS seems to be scrambling for excuses and support for the XB1 before its released. Has a bad habit of showing off PC renders of their system's titles.

[Christopher]

***But isn't this MS saying the exact thing?***

No.

1. He said GDDR5 is "uncomfortable" to work with, first. That's just a lie in comparison to eSRAM. If Sony said the PS3 was easier to develop for than the 360, then, yeah. But, that's not true.

2. The xbox 360 has eSRAM and did not have the effect that they are claiming now. Heck, the PS2 and PSP utilize eSRAM and didn't have the improvement in potential. Why? Because it's extremely limited with concern to GPU processing (since you are still always slowed down by RAM access and general bottlenecks). So, no, this is just like the Xbox 360 in design. In fact, the "newest" feature Microsoft is bringing to the arena this generation over last is the Hypervisor implementation. Otherwise, this is just an improvement on the xbox 360, which was unable to utilize eSRAM to outperform others in a noticeable fashion.

3. Regardless of this, both consoles will be putting out some beautiful games. My comment, though, is about someone trying to make eSRAM look easier and less complex than GDDR5. In the end, I do believe that Sony will be able to produce the more "technically advanced" games out there, but third-parties will design/code to the lowest common denominator as long as both maintain a larger than 25% market share. If one drops below that, then perhaps trends will change. But, not until then.

[2cents]

Cherry picking words at its finest.

As mentioned by some above, this is a console developer not a game developer and the words have been conveniently massaged to paint a different picture. Who is worse, the people who come up with this trash, or the people that buy into their fabricated drama.

This is one of the most in depth interviews I have seen in a while and there is no hate for Sony by these guys. This rubbish totally tries to take the credibility from the piece. Well, didn't work for me.

[Magicite]

Its funny that so far only X1 dev have stated that GDDR5 is hard to work with.
GDDR5 is future, DDR3 is soon to be obsolete, you can already preorder or even buy DDR4.

[Golden_Mud]

You do know that both have there own series , GDDR6 is releasing next year , DDR4 is releasing next year ; GDDR series utilize the GPU , the DDR series utilize the CPU and for that the PS4 GPU is better than the
Xbox One's GPU , but on the other hand Xbox One's CPU is more powerful than the PS4's CPU and what Sony believe is that the GPU is gonna effect the CPU but they already denied huMA so that's a let down but on the other hand the Xbox One have HSA and that is something like huMA

[t3rrorc3ll]

Ihoussanah Xbox one cpu is exactly the same as the one in the ps4. Stop being an idiot

[LordDhampire]

the xbone one is slightly stronger, such a low clock speed difference will not make a difference in anything, probably 2 fps, especially on such a low clocked processor in the first place, the processor is not very important

they are the same processor ones slightly higher clocked, real slight

[Thunderhawkxbox]

What you don't like a truth fact I won't blame you . None of the Sony fan boys will like it

[pwnsause_returns]

GDDR5 Is Uncomfortable To Work With...said no one ever....

[GribbleGrunger]

In a week were Sony praise MS for quickly changing policies, we see an article from an MS employee putting the opposition down with lies. Yep, that's MS.

[Flutterby]

I gave you a well said because that is exactly what MS are doing , anyone that knows anything about ram knows for a fact the straight gddr5 ram will be easier to work with compared to the esram combo MS have. It is just a straight lie there are no points to argue at all , I can't even believe the MS employees are allowed to lie right to ppls faces like this.

[donman1]

But but but... the cloud... THE CLOUD will make it all better and more powerful...

More damage control from Microsoft. This has to be a new record with the amount of PR spin and "believe me please" Microsoft have been doing since E3.

All this nonsense has done is re-enforce my decision to preorder the PS4.

[Blaze929]

when did console gamers become to tech savy lol. All this back and forth about something majority of console gamers don't care about.

It's ironic. All this tech talk yet you all are console gamers...instead of PC gamers? No one is going into Walmmart asking which system has the best ram or ANYTHING technical for that matter.

You all need to relax and let the games speak.

[IcicleTrepan]

That's because they're all talking out of their asses. N4G couch engineers are the worst ever, they don't even do their research. Literally all the information they know came from N4G articles.

[Flutterby]

@ icicle

I always find it funny when uninformed on tech ppl seem to think everyone else must be as clueless as them, maybe go study some computer tech about ram , frame buffers and bottlenecks along with other things such as how gpus work and cpus work , then you might be able to add to the convo rather than just suggest everyone is clueless because you are.

[AbortMission]

Damage control is always funny Lol

[ArmrdChaos]

What is even funnier is the amount of time some spend arguing about this crap. Somehow they have it in their heads that someone is keeping score. This site is less about news and more about "therapy" for socially broken individuals.

[Rageanitus]

It's even more funny to see fanboys talk about ram between both PS4 and Xbox crowd thinking they know it all.

Let's just sit back wait and let the developers produce the games for us. We will see how the consoles really stand out in 1.5 years from now.

http://www.developer-tech.c...

[NewGen45]

It funny how Sony fans are in denial and can't accept defeat

[awesomeperson]

Oh the irony.

[ALLWRONG]

"Its funny how Sony defend inferior technology ;)"

I bet this gets removed for trolling first.

[Flutterby]

Why wouldn't your comment get marked for trolling , the whole point in your comment is to troll and isn't anything to do with anything, hopefully you lose a bubble as well. Trying to act like the site is Sony biased is a waste of time , it's not anyone's fault that Sony is more popular , the more popular the product the more fans you will have.

It isn't Sonys fault or Sony fanboys fault that MS made the weaker console, it's MS' fault.

OT the guy isn't a game dev he is one of the console devs , and from what I can see MS are the ONLY ones saying gddr5 is harder to work with than the MS ram combo. That tells you all anyone needs to know , think about it MS ARE THE ONLY ONES THAT THINK THE GDDR5 RAM IS HARDER TO WORK WITH

[ALLWRONG]

If my comment is removed so should the first comment. Fair is fair, even if you don't know what that word means.

"Trying to act like the site is Sony biased" Who are you trying to fool? Every gamer on the net knows N4G is Sony biased. It is what it is.

[Bathyj]

Hes trying to convince us that having a really good band-aid is better than not having a huge, open, bleeding cut in the first place.

[candoa]

and you know this because you have both console at home and you did a benchmark. Specs are nothing but numbers, I have seem a 375hp car defeat a 520hp car. we won't know until both consoles are out.

[LordDhampire]

yeah but technology is a little different that a car, technology doesn't work that way, ....weight can affect, and change the balance on between a 360hp car and a 520hp car, think of the weight as ram, if the ps4 has 4gig that would be a massive difference, but they both have powerful ram, and you can't really say which one will work better...but since they are so close they won't change the difference that is the engine of the ps4 the gpu

[AuToFiRE]

Their devs aren't skilled enough to work with anything better than windows 98

[BallsEye]

whatever you say but...games will tell...and so far XO games talk very well.

[MRMagoo123]

Yeh they talk very well about how the console cant run a basic 2d fighter in 1080p and how to even manage 60fps in said fighter they had to remove things like special effects and what not along with make the game sit at 720p, and i guess Ryse a kinect 360 game cant get 1080p or 60 fps but is instead 900p (probably upscaled to 900p) and barely staying at 30fps, then you have DR3 another 360 game with no A.I to see for miles with all the zombies and that game too is 720p and struggling with 30fps. Yeh the games talk very much about the weak hardware contained within.

[HighResHero]

I think I remember them defending their restrictive DRM also and trying to say that it was "the future".

[Gamer1982]

DDR5 uncomfortable to work with?? Thats the most ludicrous thing I have ever heard! Devs have used DDR5 on PCs for many years now and can use it very well not to mention they have already started to come out an say how hard it is to use that ESRAM correctly.

[Fantangoooo]

i am usually a pro ms fan. but the way the xbone has been handled is just been bad. Secondly i find it hard to swallow that ddr3 is better than gddr5. AMD themselves say otherwise as some have highlighted.

[Groo]

Sounds just like our President defedning an inferior Health Care Plan

[MiHX2]

It's funny that you got a bubble for nitpicking about MS.

[Persistantthug]

I think everyone is getting too caught up in all of this ram talk, when what we should be concentrating on is the XBONE's 3 awesome sauce GPU.

POWAZ!

[MRMagoo123]

Yeh like the fact its not even 1.3tfps its only really 1.1tfps because of the kinect which they say they might be able to unlock for devs at a later time lol. Every news MS gives out about the xbone seems to be a downgrade that they try to spin into a positive

[Tooly]

ms please just stop....pleaseeeeee

[nosferatuzodd]

they're really making them selves look bad lol

[OlgerO]

This is one of the more painful things microsoft has done to get ahead.

[HighResHero]

It's interesting because this info won't really reach the casual gamers in general and the people that it actually will reach (like us) know it is nonsense.

[deep_fried_bum_cake]

I've not seen any complaints about GDDR5 from devs. I have seen some about ESRAM though.

[EXVirtual]

I haven't heard any devs complaining about the GDDR5 RAM is a pain to work with. But I have seen complaints about the ESRAM. So is this just trying to defend a weaker system?

[Kayant]

I will just leave this here best explanation on the solution --> http://www.neogaf.com/forum...

[Hitman0769]

Not
Ever
Obsolete
Good
As
F
N.E.O.G.A.F.

...said no one ever xD xD xD

seriously tho.. fanboy wars like who cares bro. can't we all just get a bong?

[Kayant]

Loool Nah Fanboy wars are funny ;).... It's great entertainment to me once in a while :p. But the comment really does put things into good perspective on the philosophy both companies are going by.

[Hitman0769]

I was under the impression their philosophies are the same. Making money babyyy :D

[PFFT]

Yeah ill stay away from SonyGAF.
A bunch of Bullsh!t and misinformed articles in that B***H!

[adorie]

Sounds like another Junior Member was banned.

[SuperWeeb]

I wouldn't say Neogaf is a Sony only website, they're constantly talking about WiiU, 3DS and 360... Most people there seem to know their stuff, though there are a few elitists that act like complete twats.

@adorie
To be honest, getting banned as a junior means nothing... Neogaf has the worst moderation I have ever seen, and that includes 4chan pre-snacks era.

I personally got banned for saying in a thread regarding the trans journalist getting called an it, that he acted completely inappropriately and shouldn't have raised an issue all over twitter and news sites, and that they should have discussed the issue privately with the individual instead. I also mentioned that getting called "it" is nothing to get offended about and should be shrugged off... Instant perma ban.
Despite sending an email asking why I was banned, I haven't received anything back and to this day believe it was a mod banning on conflicting opinions... Especially since people in the thread saying all gamers are bigots and hypocrites, and insulting eachother weren't banned.

tl;dr = It's a good site for news, you're an idiot PFFT.

[adorie]

@Nabbic
I stay away from controversial threads, and let's be honest here,alotofthe threads on there garner chaotic responses. Sometimes I am a bit surprised that I am not banned or haven't been, yet. Lol.

Anyway, if my memory serves me right,and correct me if I am wrong here, but I think if you are banned as a Junior, that's it. "GG, NO RE"

[rbluetank]

very helpful read. Kayant thxs!

[GTgamer]

That's funny i heard the opposite well i guess if a MS employee said it then i have to believe it remember when they said HD-DVD was the best choice and blu ray wasn't well look how beautiful that turned out.

[ziggurcat]

*facepalm*

that's why all devs are saying how easy it is to develop for the PS4, right? And why development time is much faster... because GDDR5 RAM is so "uncomfortable"... ?

[nosferatuzodd]

yeah most be?
Look Microsoft will do anything to trick people they've bin doing that for 30years now anyone remember the scrooogle add that backfired on them, or the gears of war pc version, or the Milo kid where is he? the list gos on

[FlameHawk]

I like how only Microsoft PR guys are defending the Xbox but its developers who are saying the PS4 is more powerful, who would you believe developers who work on the games and know the power difference because they have worked on both the PS4 and Xbox One or a biased opinion from someone who has only worked on the Xbox One.

[Fantangoooo]

i wont lie for the sake of being sane.. i will buy the ps4 first and see what happens.... but a far as this ddr3 better thing goes..

http://i.qkme.me/3s5m02.jpg

[ThatCanadianGuy514]

8 gigs unified is better in every possible scenario then 8 gigs split, with a 32mb esram bandaid.

[wishingW3L]

the bandad part was funny and true. XD

[alexkoepp]

Fact of the matter is X1 contains more RAM, theoretically capable of higher bandwidth, and better latency than GDDR5.

[ThatCanadianGuy514]

That is false.

Provide your in depth reasoning as to how that is possible, and i will disprove it right now.And please, don't just copy & paste some other idiots theories.

[alexkoepp]

8 Gig is less ram than 8 gig + 32, fact.

Don't remember the exact figure but PS4's RAM is 176GB/s PEAK theoretically, while XB1 is 68GB/s + 150Gb/s, fact. (I may be a little off on this one but XB1 is 200+)

DDR3 latency is less than that of GDDR5, common knowledge.

[JackStraw]

no.

[Nekroo91]

expect 32mb cant do much, expect rendering skys, or targets etc . and 512mb of gdrr5 = 1gb of ddr3 fact.

so 95% of what you see on screen uses the ddr3 at 68gb/s.

if the esram could process everything they wouldnt use the ddr3 retard! but its only 32mb!

[ThatCanadianGuy514]

8 gigs of slower ram + a tiny, itty bitty 32mb pipeline doesn't outdue 8 gigs of GDDR5 (which is faster and more efficient overall)

And you're doing exactly what alberty penello did.You're essentially using his own arguement.You're using MS's own fuzzy magic math that doesn't make sense.

You can't add 8 gigs Gb/s and the esram GB/s speed together and use that sum total as a basis.That isn't how it works.And that is why albert was laughed and shamed into hiding since then.

Esram on it's own, at as you said, (peak theoretical) meaning, absolute best case scenario, for a split second, at the right moment, could MAYBE process more per second then 8 gigs.However, it's 32 freaking MB's.What can they do with that? Absolutely useless.

Xbones 8 gigs ddr3 is not as fast or efficient as PS4's GDDR5 ram.That is just simply a fact.Even outright cheating reality and adding bogus esram numbers doesn't change that.

Hell, 4 giggs of GDDR5 could outdue 8 gigs of DDR3

[alexkoepp]

Lol, only in a sony fanboys universe is 512MB = 1GB

[IcicleTrepan]

@DayZ:

'Hell, 4 giggs of GDDR5 could outdue 8 gigs of DDR3'

Are you on a crystal meth fantasy trip again? Are you seriously this whacked? DDR3 and GDDR5 are the SAME memory in different configuration. Your comment shows how little you know about anything. Please stop posting pesudo-engineer nonsense and have mommy restrict your net access.

[Skips]

@alexkoepp

DayZ - "Hell, 4 giggs of GDDR5 could outdue 8 gigs of DDR3"

He's right... -____- I thought this would be pretty common knowledge by now. lmao

"Lol, only in a sony fanboys universe is 512MB = 1GB"

http://www.amd.com/Publishi...

^^^ And only Xbox fanboys would deny AMD themselves. lol

[alexkoepp]

@Skips

From that website:

"Insist on GDDR5 memory for an outstanding mobile computing experience!

GDDR5 is the ideal GPU graphics memory for the mainstream mobile users to achieve the right balance of high performance and power consumption for the ultimate on-the-go visual experience

Notebooks with balanced amount of graphics memory and superior memory bandwidth will almost always provide a better visual computing experience

Ideal memory capacity for mainstream notebook users is 512MB to 1GB of ultra-fast GDDR5 memory "

It's all for a gaming laptop, does that apply here?

And lets not forget the most important part:

"Extra unused graphics memory consumes extra power, generates excess heat, may effects battery life <b>and will not improve system performance unlike RAM which can be allocated for other applications or caching purposes</b>"

@DayZ

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

This is an example of what that 32MB can do, this is actually only 16MB processing 3GB of data

[da1writer]

Actually, we could pull various resources but I'll just pull something from AMD (the very guys chipsets being used in X1 and PS4).

http://www.amd.com/us/produ...

Fact: 512mb of GDDR5 = 1GB of DDR3

To your comment, the PS4/X1 are using a laptop/tablet chipsets. Go look it up if you like..

[LordDhampire]

mine blown

but really I hope this was just trolling and a joke, but you are right on both facts so I will give you a agree

He is right that it contains more ram, I believe like 48mb more ram on something not positive on that 32mb I know on the very least

and it does have a higher Theoretical bandwidth, will that bandwidth ever get achieved...no but it is theoretically higher

[Daves]

Is he worried about the gamers electricity billS?

I'm confused as to why he's taking about power usage.

[DoubleM70]

It's all about heat buddy. You don't want a RROD this time around do you? If I'm not mistaken aren't Microsoft doing somethings on the software side with DirectX 11.2? I think it's a technique that shrinks a 1GB render into 16MB.

[Daves]

I won't be getting a RROD, this time, or any time. Zero interest in MS.

I was just wondering why he was mentioning power usage. Power usage on consoles has to conform to new regulations... which they both do.

So it's a mute point.

[xKugo]

Really bad decision by Microsoft to go with standard DDR3 system memory instead of the fast, graphics intensive memory of GDDR5. With the launch of DDR4 and GDDR6 launching next year, XB1's RAM is going to become extremely dated extremely quick while the PS4, using a unified pool of 8gb RAM of GDDR5(2gb more than the best single card dGPU on the market) is still going to hang tough throughout the generation.

Going to be soooo interesting.

[Ketzicorn]

Oh so it wasn't a Dev that said it like the article states but MS Architecture lead. Great title there.

[DynDasE]

Xbox One developers are just sucks because even old/new indie devs love GDDR5.

Oh, I forgot. They are frustrated because they can't use it whilst they want GDDR5 so bad.

[Goku781]

There they go again.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?...

[Software_Lover]

What? High bandwidth is high bandwidth. I understand his power concerns, but, then again I dont.

This is an edit: I can see his point of view in that Devs programming for the Xbox360 should have no problem programming for the XBone because of the similar memory setup. esRAM vs edRAM, but still, these types of answers/interviews just add fuel to the fire.

[Crossbones]

So the lies continues.

[silkrevolver]

I'm sure Xbox One games will look good. Especially exclusives that take the time to work with the esram, but...

...It's almost undoubtable that the PS4, especially down the line, will be able to churn out significantly better looking games than One.

Technically, as well as the fact that Naughty Dog and Sony Santa Monica will be making games for it.

But, to each his own. The One has some features that the PS4 doesn't.
I just don't give a shit about any of them.

[GoldPunch-TR]

nice try microsoft

[strigoi814]

oh my tummy...stop it M$ stop i need to breathe...cant stop laughing...!

who do you think you are joking??? people from 60's era??
after all this lies and explanations, stupid people still trust this company?? my goodness wake up!!!

[JamieL]

Please tell me you're a female, there is just no way a guy of any age, race, denomination, sexual orientation, or political party, uses the word "tummy". God it kills me to see that. (I know, it's a super weird peeve)

[Reem]

If you don't have internet go for the 360!

***bots clapping***

[TechMech2]

It doesn't really matter about power. Third party Devs are going to build the same game for both consoles, and pc's and not try to take every bit of power of each system to find its strengths. First party devs will, but most people already either enjoy first parties of a company or they don't.

[Grave]

Now we're cooking with peanut oil!

[jgrigs09]

Honestly, I don't give jack shit which consoles has better graphics. In my opinion, I like the Xbox One games more than the Playstation 4. So I'm getting the Xbox not the Playstation 4.
Gameplay>graphics

[PraxxtorCruel]

You said it man! Bro hug!

[ded1020]

Doin it right

While I'm a long time Sony fan, the best way to know what you want is as you said, gameplay. My brother's going xbox because he just likes their controller and suspects CoD to still play best there. People like what they like. (I do think MS has the better launch line-up though. Def going to his house to play some KI at launch =p)

[TimeSkipLuffy]

I agree with some parts of your comment. While I think graphics will be at the same level, I prefer the PS4 for games.
In the long run Sony has proven to deliver outstanding games exclusively for their console because of the increasing numbers of game studios they own.

[LiQuiZoN]

I'd also add it's very short term thinking that m$ has better games. Sony has a proven track record for several console generations. And the launch lineup isn't even better IMO. Although I agree I'd like to try killer instinct.

[CEOSteveBallmer]

Uhmmm MS, There's a reason why GDDR5 is invented and is the latest graphics ram in the computer industry. This is just like defending how HD-DVD is better than blu ray where not a few years ago MS also defended it

[shahab91]

You are talking against Microsoft Steve, so thats why Microsoft is driving you out. XD

[CEOSteveBallmer]

Im tired with those whackamoles you call "Investors", im retiring so I can play the real deal, the "PS4". Xbox is Bill's idea not mine, I told him sooner or later it will be a bad idea, PS2 made us lost millions of dollars, luckily for the early launch of PS3 sony made mistakes which gave us an advantage, but right now i don't know where we headed, so Better leave now while things are still okay because xbox division's finances are separate from the Windows division of MS. So if xbox screws up, that would be bad. Anyway I'll be Seeing yah guys on PSN, but i'll still be on XBL. I really like PS4, because they have many talented "Developers, developers, developers, Develoeprs!!"

[mhunterjr]

There's something humorous about folks who know nothing about computer hardware engineering arguing about spec sheets.

[DoesUs]

Haha. No, just no.

[jmc8888]

Is that like saying a fast car needs more gas?

Except we're talking about a handful of watts that basically changes nothing.

Does Microsoft know what a console is? Could never tell with anything they've done here in 2013.

[hellrazor]

Well some would say the ps4 is not even in the next gen war to start with...the ps4 can't run 4k games confirmed by sony only 4k film playback ...the xbox one can ...confirmed by ms...native 4k and upscale to 4k so when the 4k kicks off ps4 left in the dust....and ps4 wifi no 5ghz just 2.4 ....and still using old school Bluetooth instead of wifi direct like xbox one and off the shelf parts compared to the more custom silicon xbox one uses.and then the online side of things, dedicated servers on xbox one and not for ps4.hmmm yeh ps4 sounds like nex gen ....lol lol ......so ps4 fans go do some research about the power you need to run 4k games and then tell me the ps4 is the more powerful console ...... And about this gddr5 vs DDR 3 + esram it's clear by most of the comments you have not even a basic understanding of the tech ....but thanks you make me laugh -:)

[shahab91]

Http://assets.diylol.com/hf...

[Tooly]

ERRR WRONG TRY AGAIN OFF THE SHELF PARTS NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT DO YOUR RESEARCH SON YOU MAKING A FOOL OF YOURSELF.

[uncharted56]

Keep telling yourself that. Fact PC>PS4>XB1.

[TechMech2]

Online multiplayer. Fact. Xbox live > PlayStation network.

[Software_Lover]

What!!!!!!! Stop it people, just stop it.

[KonsoruMasuta]

The Xbox can play 4K games? That's bs!

4k Pacman, maybe.

[BG11579]

I didn't know Microsoft were developping games for the PS4...
How else would they know it's hard to programs the PS4's DD5? There aren't many devices that use DD5 in an architecture with unified memory system...

[jay2]

Lol. No.

[abusador]

Oh boy these guys at it again? What thy don't know is that instead of swaying ppl to their side, they are actually putting ppl off with their pr bs to save their lives and lies. It's really sad whoever eats these lies up lol

By the way games like Infamous and Killzone that look and seem to play better than competition say hello and use gdrr5 :)

[Metfanant]

This is what happens when "gaming" journalists try to analyze technical articles when they have no clue what they are talking about...

That comments taken completely out of context...they are just saying that when you look at power (consumption:electricity), cost, availability etc that it made it uncomfortable when they were designing the console...

They feel their setup better fit their vision at the time it was designed...

[Lboogieskells]

Oh the "Balance"?

[srd4484]

I don't get it. Cerny used the same term in his interview and you didn't attack him. MS uses it and all hell breaks out.

[Hicken]

@srd4484: Because Microsoft used it as an excuse to explain away the weakness of their system.

[captain_slow82]

MS be like but but but we have the secret milk sauce and all are customers be kids

on another note keep pissing in the wind MS because thats what your doing :D

[lifeisgamesok]

The thing is if the PS4 is so easy to develop for why aren't Sony games blowing Xbox Ones out of the water? Why would it even take 3-4 years to distance themselves?

They have some good looking games but the Xbox One games look just as good if not better. Nothing is touching Ryse

[Metfanant]

You mean the same Ryse that is running at 900p and 30fps while something like Killzone Shadow Fall (which looks better than Ryse btw) is running at native 1080p and 60fps(multi) 30fps (single player)??

[lifeisgamesok]

The difference between 1080 and 900p is barely even noticeable

And while the art style of Killzone looks good it could use some shader work

Killzone is so generic even Sony Fanboys are saying this

Look at the foliage in Ryse single player compared to Killzone's it isn't comparable

And Ryse characters (main and npc's) are 85,000 polys with no LOD

Killzone characters are 45,000 polys with LOD meaning they aren't even 45,000 polygons at all times

And like I've mentioned before if GG the creators of Killzone Shadow Fall thought that Ryse was being ran on a high end PC until Crytek showed them the cords and no PC in sight they must think Ryse looks better since high end pc's today would outperform a Ps4

[ziggurcat]

@ lifeisgamesok

the 85k is *only* for the main character....

your bridge, i think it's over there. now go away.

[Madderz]

I read somewhere that going from 900p to 1080p actually does require 40%(ish) more power/work...

Was quite in depth actually.... Lets see if i can find it....

Unless anyone else can clarify?

[Jaqen_Hghar]

KZ Shadowfall looks better than Ryse and is more open. Infamous looks better than both and is open world.

[lifeisgamesok]

Infamous looks good but still not touching Ryse single player

I would definitely buy Infamous if I was getting a Ps4 I think it'll be very good

My only gripes are the main character, and the world looks pretty empty for an open world game

[Jaqen_Hghar]

a man disagrees. both in stats and overall looks KZ wins and Infamous kills both.

[imt558]

@lifeisgamesok

Well, pure 1080p and upscaled 900p to 1080p is noticeable difference. Trust me. Aaron Greenberg said that XO will upscale all 720p and 900p games to 1080p. And that's not good.

Here is 720p upscaled to 1080p and pure 1080p ( second picture ) :

http://i.imgur.com/5s48iLh....

http://i.imgur.com/IPLimo2....

Results with 900p is little better.

[Metfanant]

1 the difference between 900p and 1080p is noticeable...and it's bigger than the difference between 720p and 900p...

2. I doubt you even know what a shader is

3. Who says it looks generic? We have only been show what 2 of the environments? The Vektan City and the jungle...

4. Frankly I'm not impressed by the no LoD...it's actually a waste of resources...you can't tell how many poly's there are when a character is off in the distance...it's a waste to render all 85k all the time

5. The environments in KZ are MASSIVE compared to Ryse,,,that game started out as a Kinect title so you know it's completely on rails...

6. All the single player footage we have seen of KZ was on an old build that was designed BEFORE the Ps4 had 8gb of RAM...

I'm trying not to knock Ryse because it's a beautiful game...but KZ is in another league on a technical level...

[reko]

@lifeisgamesok

you think 900p is better than 1080p?

wow...

[solidboss07]

Really? GT6 is as good as Turd 10's next gen effort. Anybody with a PS3 knows what to expect with PS4 - the best graphics, as that was the crux of your silly argument.

[LordDhampire]

lol Microsoft needs to stop, no one even cares about power consumption at no time have I ever heard someone say hey turn that off the power bill in gonna be ridiculous...and the old consoles were built on a much bigger manufacturing process...these consoles power consumption is so low it doesn't even matter

I realize these developers want to defend there products but their reasons at this point are laughable, they could of at least brought up latency or something not power consumption....

if your going to buy a 500 dollar console I don't think you care about 16 dollars per year in power costs

where did Sony or Microsoft get the thought in their mind that lower power consumption was better, I would of much preferred a full fledged processor in the new consoles instead of a mobile processor, yeah it keeps heat down but come on if you can design a box to handle heat of the cell then you can design it to handle a desktop processor

[uncharted56]

Yup this is getting sad now. Its like MS wants to embrace the negative press. Instead of focusing on the strong of their console they keep addressing the negative.

[Lboogieskells]

It's hard to remain diplomatic when Microsoft lets their employees spew out nonsense like this.

[thexmanone]

PS Bots on damage control

[Caleb_H]

No, it's MS employees on damage control. And quite frankly, they're a few months late and a few miles short.

[Goku781]

Yeah MS is lost.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?...

[Tontus]

lol, nonsense.

[lodossrage]

Sony went around to developers asking for input and made the system based on what developers asked for. And the development community has been praising it to the high heavens.

So who is saying this is uncomfortable besides this MS employee?

[Caleb_H]

This title is really misleading. The term "dev" is usually used in reference to game developers, not console architects. In this case, the term dev refers to an Xbox ONE architect who says "ESRAM good, GDDR5 bad.", which we all know is complete horseshit.

[badkolo]

becuase you build the x1 and ps4 and know the real difference right?

[slampunk]

This headline is rubbish, and it's just gamingbolt (crap website) trolling for hits.

It's from the DF article speaking with the MS engineers who built the XB1, not game devs as the title suggests... read the DF article as it's taken out of context....

[SwiftArsonist]

funny to see a lot of people saying that its the other way around and have no knowledge of the inner workings etc, they just read somewhere that GDDR5 is better and assume its right. We talking about one of the engineers that worked on the console telling us that is balance is key and its automatically wrong. like telling a heart surgeon he cant do open heart surgery. sony pony logic

[lodossrage]

Well look at the facts

Sony built the PS4 off what the developers themselves asked for, including GDDR5. You never once seen them say it was uncomfortable to work with.

This here is an Xbox One hardware architect saying the competition's workings are uncomfortable despite every other developer having nothing but praise.

You won't catch me saying anything because I'm no programmer. But it's hard to take the word of the competition when EVERY OTHER person in the field outside of Microsoft praised the GDDR5.

It has nothing to do with "Sony Pony Logic" as you say. If you can show at least two links with developers or architects that AREN'T MS employees saying the GDDR5 is uncomfortable, I'll eat my words.

[thexmanone]

Sony built the PS4 off what the developers themselves asked for, including GDDR5.

Do you have a link were the developers asked for GDDR5. I can not find the info.

[lodossrage]

@thexmanone

Here are two with developer praise of the GDDR5

http://www.eurogamer.net/ar...

http://www.computerandvideo...

I'm not going to go crazy googling links. You can do that yourself. I found more than just those two of course. But I gave you two, you can do the rest

[JuniorCE]

Microsoft needs to stop this BS...

[Cherchez La Ghost]

Fact is there has been too much talking. I'm not believing in jack sheit until I have both consoles in my house. You people here kill me in N4G.

[josephayal]

ddr3 meh!

[gamer7804]

not to split hairs, but this article's title misquotes, he said takes you to an uncomfortable place, that doesn't mean its uncomfortable to work with, he unfortunately doesn't clarify what he means. The interviewer should have followed that up w/ a question

[bumnut]

I hate these articles, the comments sections are full of idiots that don't know what they are talking about.

[Niv]

How do you think sony built that tiny ps4 ?? Even with a large 7970m based GPU

GDDR 5 ram sips on power compared to the ancient DDR 3 ram

[marcofdeath]

If you can not feed your CPU and GPU what is the point?
GDDR5 256bit at 175GB/s(this is peak) VS Esram1024bit + 256bit at 200GB/s(this is with out PEAk).... Just the FACTS....

[Ulf]

"GDDR 5 ram sips on power compared to the ancient DDR 3 ram"

Umm.. no.

[JuniorCE]

Micro$oft is so full of shit...

[WeaseL]

One question, whats an xbox dev doing programming on a PS4?

[eridc3301]

Hmm then why do all modern high end graphic cards have gddr5. ddr3 please.

[Ulf]

How about: "Why do high-end gaming PC CPUs use DDR3, and not GDDR5?"

[MasterCornholio]

But their GPUs use GDDR5 ram.

Sounds like GDDR5 is better for graphics than DDR3 otherwise GPUs wouldn't use it.

Plus AMD confirmed this themselves and they are the manufacter of both APUs.

Nexus 7 2013

[Ulf]

...and games like Skyrim and GTA4 are bound by the GPU at resolutions 1080p and under... except no, they aren't.

The best games are CPU bound, as I see it.

[Ulf]

LoL @ all the would-be game devs in this thread, who have never once seen the APIs for using the ESRAM, and have no idea what they're talking about.

It could be as simple as setting a flag on a framebuffer or texture when it has memory allocated. "If" it is just that simple, said folks are looking like fools to real devs who read this.

[jairusmonillas]

Even the latest GPU from NVIDIA and AMD are using GDDR5. You can't fool anyone Microsoft.

[hellrazor]

That's because their standalone graphics Cards,the x1 memory pool is for CPU and gpu and other Dpu's to use.....their is a reason that gddr5 is not used in system memory on pc the next pc memory will be ddr4 not gddr5/6..

[badkolo]

its amazing to read how knowledgeable the n4g devs are lol , they talk like they know but in reality ,most know absolutely nothing but speak as they do

[1nsomniac]

"GDDR5 Uncomfortable to work with" although it's been the staple hardware for over the past 5 years on PC - The PC undoubtedly being the easiest platform to develop for.

...Yea well done on being the top of the leader board for the most stupid comment of 2013!

[marcofdeath]

"That is real code that is running at that bandwidth. You can add that to the external memory and say that that probably achieves in similar conditions 50-55GB/s and add those two together you're getting in the order of 200GB/s across the main memory and internally."

XB1 1024bits + 68bits = 200GB/s real world
PS4 256bits = 160GB/s real world

Feeding GPU
XB1 1024bits at 200GB/s 4x more, 30% more BW
PS4 256bits at 160GB/s
And the winner is XBOX ONE!
PS4 fanboys don't like facts.
One last fact, GDDR5 will not work well with CPU......
How in the hell is that GPU using 1024bits any way? Wow!

http://www.eurogamer.net/ar...

[Ulf]

Your math is wierd, and your statement is really unclear.

It's true that the XB1 CPU has better bandwidth to its DDR3 (30 GB/s) than the PS4 CPU does to the GDDR5 (20 GB/s), but bandwidth is usually only an issue for the kind of embarrassingly parallel work GPUs are good at.

It's true that the XB1's CPU memory latency is lower than the PS4's.. that's actually kind of a big deal, due to its impact on cache miss performance, that the uninformed won't understand.

It's true that the XB1's CPU is clocked higher, which obviously will also result in better CPU performance than the PS4.

It's true that the XB1's ESRAM is faster than the GDDR5 in the PS4, but.. the space is a little limited, if you're thinking "1080p framebuffers". 720p will probably be better on the XB1 in some ways, though.

Those points all make the XB1 look pretty good, but... It's tough to match up to the raw bandwidth of the PS4's GDDR5 when coupled with about 40% more GPU muscle.

The end result is that the PS4 will likely see higher-rez framebuffers than the XB1, and higher framerates -- but only in GPU-bound games (which is _not_ some vast majority of games, as most people on N4G seem to believe). CPU-bound games will likely see better framerates on the XB1, but the framebuffer resolution will still likely be in the PS4's favor.

End result:

You like higher-rez? Near 1080p? Don't mind a little tearing and slowdown during intense game moments? Get a PS4.

You like steady framerate, and can deal with not-much-more-than-720p? Get a XB1. This latter point will need to be pounded home to the fanboys over time, because they like to la-la-la away all the advantages the XB1 has in this dept., but its true.

[wishingW3L]

all you say is true but you're forgetting about one huge factor... That the PS4 has more CUs for ALU. That diminishes any advantage the XB1 might have with the CPU.

XB1 only has 12 CUs (14 with 2 disabled) and if devs dedicate any of them to ALU then the renders will be greatly affected. Meanwhile the PS4 has 18 and the recommended balance from Cerny is to use 14 for render and the other 4 for ALU. You can still use all of them for render if you want but after 14 CUs each additional give very little performance boost so is better to use them for ALU.

-----------------
"Sony found that using 4 CUs in GPGPU tasks can be more efficient and with better overall results than using all of them for rendering tasks, but they don’t stop developers to use them only for rendering or GPGPU, as they wish depending on the game demands. It’s not mandatory at all. Sony is only providing more resources to the developers."
--- http://www.vgleaks.com/play...

[Hakoom]

what r they gona say next?
blu ray isnt required? lets go back to dvd?

[JunioRS101]

Whoever came up with the idea of using the word "balance" for PR over at Microsoft must have gotten a raise.

Very, very clever choice of words. VERY clever choice of words.

The word "balance" insinuates a positive connotation, even though by definition it does not actually mean anything good for Xbox One when used in this context.

"Balance" could suggest that since PS4 is VERY powerful, X1 is UNDERPOWERED so that there is a net balance between both consoles when measured against "neutral" potential.

Almost too clever... Aliens? Perhaps.

[marcofdeath]

If it was underpowered the XB1 games would not look and run better than PS4 in every category, that said you did get your first 1080p 60FPS game called Flower.

[JunioRS101]

Has there been even a single instance where a developer has suggested that Xbox One is MORE capable than Playstation 4?

Seems kind of odd to think X1 "looks and runs better than PS4 in every category" and yet no multiplat developer has ever eluded to such a thing being the case...

So, in other words, what you're saying is not only untrue, but the opposite of reality, which is that PS4 is the favored platform for multiplat games.

I honestly don't know where you came up with the idea that Xbox One runs games better than PS4..? Haven't you been reading all the articles on this website and others where multiplat developers have said they favor the PS4..?

[hellrazor]

Forza 5 1080p 60 fps -:) but yeh your rite .....-:)

[OmegaShen]

This makes me think when they were talking big about DVD's...... What happen to that Microsoft? Plus didn't they say they didn't need HDMI at one point?

Microsoft likes to lie, my question is: Will it have the same fail rate on 360 or higher? Because it seem to take them along time to get it fix.

[hellrazor]

Am not saying ms is any different,but don't think for one minute sony ant full of it.......short memory's people have ......

http://uk.gamespot.com/foru...

Have a read and learn ....

[OmegaShen]

Thing is, Microsoft beats them. Look at how long Microsoft has been around and plus you comparing PS3 problems to 360's 50%.

There is even word Microsoft won't be adding anything to keep your Xbox One game from sliding around and they say standing it up isn't at your own risk (yet Sony is trying to not to cut corners). Plus I remember hearing about Microsoft knowing about the rrod before lunching the system. Thats just sad.

[MartinB105]

Typical Microsoft FUD.

[marcofdeath]

Feeding GPU
XB1 1024bits at 200GB/s 4x more, 30% more BW
PS4 256bits at 160GB/s
And the winner is XBOX ONE!
PS4 fanboys don't like facts.
One last fact, GDDR5 will not work well with CPU......
How in the hell is that GPU using 1024bits any way? Wow!

http://www.eurogamer.net/ar...

[Reem]

Go to GAF buddy witch such ridiculous statements and they will destroy you, but I can do it too. I just scrolled over your link and this is the result:

"in real testing you get 140-150GB/s rather than the peak 204GB/s"

Your own link owns you buddy lol

[srd4484]

what does gaf know? They trashed AP when he said the XB1 can read/write. Gaffers were proven wrong.

[Reem]

They were right, AP was yapping 204GB/s, which was proven wrong. Of course the Gaffers can't know everything as they don't have the Xbone infront of them yet, but they were more right than AP.

[Metfanant]

you realize that the "200gb/s number is just for the ESRAM right??...all 32MB of it...while the 8GB of system memory is only capable of 68gb/s....ALL of the PS4's memory is 176gb/s...

btw...the GDDR memory is bad for CPU's was debunked...

if you want to talk about "facts"

Xbone GPU:
1.18 TF GPU (12 CUs) for games (10% reserved for "snap" OS function/Kinect)
768 Shaders
48 Texture units
16 ROPS
2 ACE/16 queues

PS4 GPU:
1.84TF GPU (18 CU) for games + 56%
1152 Shaders +50%
72 Texture units +50%
32 ROPS + 100%
8 ACE/64 queues +400%

[hellrazor]

Link to gddr5 good for CPU?
CPUs have to process commands one at a time,can not jump que,if theirs a bottleneck the CPU just sits and wait,but the gpu works different if it don't get info back it's waiting for it can move on and do other tasks "more to it but in easy info"
And that's what makes gddr5 no good for CPU use,timings .....
Why do you think that pc's use DDR and not gddr,the g in the gddr5 stands for graphics.....
Oh buy the way your other info that you copied and pasted missed one thing out..

Its all about what the system can process PER FRAME AND TOTALY SYNC.

the specs of memory bandwidth and speed can cope ....

[marcofdeath]

Here's a classic case of someone who does not know or understand what's going on, did you notice he didn't place any links to his FACTS. I'll start off with his first statement, Xbox ones memory system is looked at as one memory pool by developers just like the 360, that can back feel or read or write from the DDR3 that's a fact.

http://www.eurogamer.net/ar...

So to add to that it does not matter 32 or 8 MB because they can feel from each memory. So you are wrong. Here is the bigger question PS4 256 bits is how much your GPU can use at any one time, but for some strange reason Xbox ones GPU can use 1024 bits at any one time.
Fact.

Also if GDDR5 worked so well with the CPU they would use it instead of DDR3 on PC motherboards, they do not and there is a reason for this, please do your homework.

Next problem is the bit rate of your GDDR5 it's 256 bits at 176 GB second (peak) but Xbox one has a has memory from ESram 4x 256 bits per lane equals 1024 bits at 150 GB /second (peak), when you add the main system RAM 4x 64bit lanes equals 256 bits equals 50 GB / second (peak) that is 200 GB the system wide bandwidth at a bit rate of 1024 bit. Fact.

Now your GPU specs look to be accurate but let me add the detail that Sony like the 14+4 balance that they left out originally, is that your bandwidth will not allow you to feed 1152 shaders or 72 texture units or 8 aces. Because if it as you say it was +56+50+50+100+400% there would not be one Xbox one game that could compete, but that's not what we see, is it. Stay out of NEOGAFantasyland.

[Lboogieskells]

Spam much?

[supes_24]

Gotta say, MS is really screwing themselves this gen. I loved my 360 but I'm really bummed about the One. Wish they would've planned better or thought this through. It's too bad too, I go for whats better for me and I will not defend a company no matter what, in the end it's all about me and who I spend my money on. MS made a huge mistake this gen and I wish they didnt because I'm a gamer and would love to have their console but in the end it's all about my money and where I'm spending it. So far PS has won me over.

[JediDiah]

I love games. :)

[Red_Devilz]

Thats why they need "Teh Phawah of Teh Klaaaaud"

[B_Real]

Who cares if the Xbox One is less powerful. The Xbox 360 is less powerful than the PS3 and there is very little graphical difference between them. The techies on the internet act like small differences are huge and make a big deal out of everything. Fact: the Xbox One is less powerful. Fact: it won't equate to much of a graphical difference between the consoles. The past is the best indicator of the future and the PS3 isn't an incredible leap over quality than the Xbox 360 and the original Xbox which was more powerful than the PS2 also had a negligible graphical upgrade. People are making a much bigger deal about this then they need to.

[Metfanant]

if you actually had a clue as to what you were talking about you might be onto something...

but in this case the past is not even CLOSE to any indication about the future....

1. The PS3 and 360 have RADICALLY different architectures...the PS3 is exponentially more difficult to develop for...in addition, the PS3's GPU is weaker than the 360's, and also has a much more constrictive memory architecture than the 360...

2. the PS2 was SIGNIFICANTLY less powerful than the Xbox and it CERTAINLY showed...the problem with the Xbox is it was too late to the party, and was up against arguably the single greatest console of ALL TIME (PS2)

3. This time around the Xbone and PS4 have very similar architectures, but the chips are completely stacked against MS...not only is it less powerful but it is ALSO the more complicated hardware to develop for...

[bromtown]

They keep talking about power consumption, an obvious sign that they wanted a media centre not a games console. The XBox is meant to be on as long as your TV is on, so that's games, films and cable - whereas the PS4 is only on when you want to play games, maybe watch Netflix or a bluray. Either way, less than an Xbox.

You can't say that GDDR5 is uncomfortable though, that's just BS - especially for devs. I mean, I'm no expert but surely accessing a single pool of relatively high speed memory, is easier to programme for than to programme for some slower memory and a 4x 8mb memory chips which can supposedly have 2 way communication. Even basic maths says that's more operations.

They're more concerned about power consumption and heat than they are about games, which is the only reason to buy a games console.

[tigertom53]

really how cares about specs, all I care about is that xbox one has better graphics over last generation, a better controller, improved chat audio, new interface with tons of new features...

[ssbains]

Ppff

[ssbains]

Microsoft backing aging, cheaper technology in DDR3, like they backed HD-DVD before and Kinect 1.0.

Microsoft had over 50% failure with RROD on the XBox360

They are now also now also forcing consumers to fork out $100 for Kinect 2.0 whether you use it or NOT, enjoy your $499 price tag

There initial appoach on used game strategy, 24 hour mandated check-in and inies was appaling, causing there XBox czar to leave for Zynga and Steve Zballmer to step own as CEO

When has Microsoft ever got its gaming tech and strategy right?

High end gaming rigs have moved over from DDR3 to GDDR5, which is NOT in XBone

[MasterCornholio]

Ballmer is stepping down due to other things as well such as the failure to turn Windows 8 mobile into an extremely successful platform and his bliunder with the surface tablet. Don Mattrick left due to his screw ups with the Xbox INE.

Nexus 7 2013

[assdan]

In a comment today sony said that lower CPU clock is always better for processing, that's why they went with a lower clock

[srd4484]

lol. Fine disagree all you want. But don't act like you know more than these tech guys who designed the XB1. Makes you look silly.

Wasn't it the fanboys at neogaf who said that you can't read/write? PROVED WRONG!

[Alvidta]

WOW LOL look at all this butt-hurt

So a Xbox One Dev says they're comfortable with esram and not GDDR5 and crap hits the fan

ROFL.. you people are so defensive..
some of you need to think for a moment and realize that they're comfortable with this layout
but hey whatever offends you guys... btw take that stick out your asses.

[Thomaticus]

MS should just focus on the games. Take people minds off of what's in the box. Average consumer doesn't care....but when you bring it up, people find out the truth.

[Pintheshadows]

I go away to London for the weekend and come back to this drivel spouting fool completely destroying any reputation he may of once had. Wow, MS is on a constant cycle of one step forward one step back. They just haven't improved their position at all. It hasn't got worse since the big reversals but they keep putting their foots in their mouths.

[TheOneEyedHound]

Harder to work for? That's why

Destiny
AC4
Watch Dogs
EA
Capcom
Have choosen the Ps4 as their lead platform.
When Sony said at their unveil that the Ps4 was made for the developers they weren't kidding.

[mochachino]

I don't think xone is that bad of a system but MS's PR is pathetic. They treat us like morons.

[oweowe]

This is the first time I heard a game developer is taking power consumption into consideration.....lol

[theFLeXy]

i wonder how much ms pays people/companies to say things like this.....

[KingOdin89]

Teh cloud lightning strikes that gives the xbone 1.21 jiggabites of extra ram to power its flux compacitor to take you into teh future of gaming.

[swerve121]

Its funny how people care complaining talk about RROD crap. It called warranty systems go out stop being so damn cheap. I have one for my PS4 and XB1 if it breaks it goes right back to the store. We will know the truth behind these systems in a month. We all though the PS3 was gonna blow the XB360 outta the water. Buy where yall in for a surprise

[Holeran]

"Buy where yall in for a surprise"

???

[thejigisup]

I have a second gen ps3 fattie that has yet to just "go out", my ps2 still works perfectly fine, same with my ps1, though I have noticed I should probably hit it with a can of dust off. Xbox was a huge brick which if u remember correctly nearly burned a few houses down...that's pretty shitty and I'm sure a standard warranty on a console doesn't cover your house or memories lost or even lives(I'm speaking potential here). far the ps3 hasn't rrod on me and I didn't need to send something back to get fixed or replaced. I didn't set out to buy a system that if need to be without once I owned it. It is fairly rude to just tell people to stop being so cheap because these systems are not cheap in the slightest. There are a lot if young people that work hard all year saving up tfor the new systems, or even just for the unfortunately average American 400 and 500 isn't something easily parted with. If you make under 25k usd a year you could argue that 4-500 is a sizable portion of income. It's not about being cheap at all people want to purchase something they enjoy without it breaking for no part in user fault.

[thejigisup]

O and I wasnt surprised bc by my standard the ps3 is blowing the xbox360 out of the water, and continuing to put out a very high level of quality product as far as games, services, and products go.

[voodoogts]

The 360 had a similar technology like esram and it made games ran better on the 360 rather then on ps3 on multiplats

[ZeV]

Wrong...Some games are better on 360...But,Look at gtaV or LA Noire,Metal Gear Rising and many others,these games are clearly better on PS3...I don't talk about PS3 exclusives,they're far better than 360.

[Vip3r]

Isn't GDDR5 more power efficient than GDDR3?

[thejigisup]

Similar to presidential debates I'd love to see lead designers and lead architects go head to head and support why their console design choices are better, that would be fun. Definitely more factual and hopefully easier to gather all of the information a lot of their people pull from not so reliable online sources. We'll call it the "Meet you makers debate". Id pay to see that.

[kingPoS]

Quote

“In terms of getting the best possible combination of performance, memory size, power, the GDDR5 takes you into a little bit of an uncomfortable place."

Ok... I of Nick Baker because he has done...
Just as I know of Mark Cerny because he's done...

Well, I know some of what Mark's done what's regarding system architecture. Does anyone know what Nick does for a living. I googled him and got that he's a naturalist of something. That can't be right can it?

[ic3fir3]

this wars is so ridiculous
ps4 and xbox one its the same shit, only on videogames, and core gaming get for play a games

[ballsohard2013]

alot of Know it alls on this site... if all this were so easy, ms and sony wouldnt be paying engineers and tech geeks 75,000/100,000 and up.

Both systems have strengths and flaws, lets see what happens. I just want top notch games for both my ps4 and x1. Thanks

[Nik_P757]

Sony used GDDR5 at third party developer request. Must not be that uncomfortable. Probably just shows why Sony first party games are s much better, they understand technology better.

[GaminGuys]

Sony understand technology better? :FACEPALM: dude not one of the compnies in the top 3 understand consumers. I'll give MS their due: they listened about DRM and Sony listened regarding indie first but lets be honest here, you want the best AAA games and that goes MS's way. You wouldn't miss out on anything if you didn't go that way though, how would you ever know...

[Nik_P757]

MS for the best AAA games? Please explain because as far as I see Sony has stacked exclusive AAA games against MS.

[LiQuiZoN]

I have to disagree. Ms is far from having best anything. Certainly not anything in the AAA game category. This tells me you didn't have a ps3, because it's not even a reasonable argument.

[Clarence]

M$ needs to stop

[KontryBoy706]

and ain't these the same nuts that said Blu-ray wasn't needed and would never be utilized? How many multi disc games are there on the 360 again? Oh yeah, how's HD DVD doing?

[GaminGuys]

Well I wouldn't like to burn 3-4 discs for FFX then again I wouldnt want to sit offline for months, the lesser of those evils is whoever you choose it to represent you.

[Cuders]

Key words " XBOX ONE DEV" biased because he works for them. i would like to hear this coming from a company like Ubisoft or Rockstar, and that will never happen.

[GaminGuys]

Rockstar are about as good at getting people online as Sony dude. Wait for the hack.

[GaminGuys]

Jesus another flaimbait article. Listen here and listen close. Both consoles play games extraordinarily well. Trust. So long as both deliver as they do today, they are both good consoles. Just that Sony is online for 7 months of the year. XD

[urwifeminder]

Blah blah just hurry up and sell me one already.

[Shakengandulf]

Best comment so far.

[Saithraphim]

Why do MS keep doing this to themselves? Its like they haven’t dug themselves deep enough into a hole, now they want to insult our intelligence...."Uncomfor table" what is there a bouncer at the gate of the bus carding them each time they try to send something through?

[clevernickname]

In other news, trampoline salesman quoted as saying that trampolines are a safe and inexpensive form of exercise for children.

[BobBelcher]

Looking at the comments- Why are Sony fans so vindictive?
Even neutral parties don't stand a chance.
Just an observation.

[larrysdirtydrawss]

Well first this is OLD NEWS already posted
http://n4g.com/news/1368003...

@Eonjay
"Not only does ESRam add a complex step of micro managing memory"

-Nah, not saying he's right or wrong about DDR3+eSRAM being the better route vs GDDR5 but eSRAM is a natural evolution of eDRAM which devs have been using quite well for years on 360. In fact if you read it they both work the same however eSRAM is just a progression of eDRAM that quote: "we could clean up a lot of the limitations that we had with the eDRAM"
http://www.eurogamer.net/ar...

ya,devs for years have been begging to have the majority of their bandwidth stuck in a 32MB sive of esram.. GDDR5 is pure garbage,thats what the G stands for,not graphics

[deecee33]

Seems this article is old news and the headline is click bait, no? Didn't the quote from baker refer to Microsoft's discomfort with using GDDR5 over DDR3 due to supply-chain related cost and power consumption? Not sure why they're trying to use Baker's interview from weeks ago to try and stir up something new. This quote is NOT from a third party dev, and it's not even being quoted in the right context.

[Villz85]

What the hell?

I'm an Xbox One guy for my own reasons this biased PS4 site won't/refuse/can't understand.

First of all this is another unsupported blog/comment by that I mean no links to official interview or video. It's just words with a name picked out for view in my opinion and can't be believed it was actually said by these people unless there is evidence.

I just think it's funny that there are loads of 'Dev' comments bigging up the PS4 and you lot are all over it with your keyboard in one hand and something else in the other further down. Loving it bashing Xbox and praising PS4 for reasons you won't/refuse/can't give.

Now there is one of these dodgy 'Dev' posts for Xbox and it's all rubbish, biased yeah yeah talk. Why do you muppets believe the PS4 garbage yet reject the Xbox garbage as 'PR'?

Worst thing about PS4 is some of its fans for me, put me right off.

[GinkgoID]

Hmm. Reading this I realise that am tied of these these types of articles and particularly the endless "my dad's better than your dad" comments that follow.

Bring on Nov and the release of both consoles so we can all get on with actually playing games on whatever our preferred NextGen console is.

[BobBelcher]

Shuhei Yoshida - I completely respect this guy.

PS4 - A solid console w/ PLENTY of games coming to it.

Sony/PS4 fans - I would rather have a Zombie Apocalypse.

[cell989]

Xbone team, you really got to try harder

[SynestheticRoar]

Their the same ones that said blu-ray was over price technology, and that dvd was the way to go. Look how that turned out 6 disc for final fantasy.

[IWasHere]

Why the hell is in Microsoft's world on the 6th October the 1st April? lol

[BobBelcher]

nope.

[Nivalis]

Yes because anyone is going to listen to claims made in favor of a console and against another by the people who make the one they're in favor of

Just what in the world do people expect, a ps4 dev giving the Xbox one praise and the Xbox team giving Sony praise? Rightttt..

Whenever someone opens their mouth to downplay the competition while boasting about their own, the best thing you can do is ignore it as bullshit propaganda.

[kasser]

He says they chose it for low power requirement.

Yet I still see they could not manage to include the power supply inside their console.

[microproze2000]

loll, i like when MIcrosoft acts like a kids to prove themselves :D

[urwifeminder]

Once again the sony pages are a ghost town with little comments don't fall in love with the hate and loose sight of what you guys are defending lol,almost no comments in playstaion articles hilarious.

[mmj]

What they neglect to mention is that they have had to fit a considerably less powerful GPU to make room for the ESRAM, PS4 might consume more power but it is more powerful and has no external power brick.

[saber00005]

That guy's logic is invalid. I know how video games are made. It's microsoft. Enough said.

[Vanakka]

I know, it's so hard to develop games with a Nvidia Gtx or an Amd Radeon Card card sure this guy i tell you.....

Oh wait wasn't there PC's at E3 running Xbox os

[ivnheim]

This is getting ridiculous. Im getting very tired of the MS Bullshit.

Just let it die, PS4 in terms of performance is better than Xbone, if they want people to buy their system they better offer great games and services instead of been talking nonsense to people and hurting even more the perception of their brand

[SoulSercher620]

Of course the only person that would say that is an xbox one dev

[Krosis]

Well had it been a Sony Dev praising Sony hardware that wouldn't be an issue. Why the double standard on this site? Who cares?

[Krosis]

It's really funny seeing how many people think this type of RAM will make a huge difference.

[DevilishSix]

Either way I am looking forward to new consoles as it's been far to long between generations, it needs to be five years max. The 360 will be eight years old when the new X1 arrives and the PS3 seven years when PS4 hits shelves. Yes there has been great games in those addition years but the cycle is to long, these new machines are going to be outdated in short time if not already.

[Harpers_Ferry]

You know what's really uncomfortable? When "professionals" get involved in this console war bullshit. Playing it up at events and for major press events is one thing, but this is just awkward. Talking up your own hardware is fine, but the second you feel the need to bring up the competition, you just come off as insecure.

It's like the difference between Coke ads and Pepsi ads. Pepsi feels the need to try to diss Coke constantly, while Coke typically stays classy and just tells you to enjoy their product.

[andron]

This is just flame bait. They are only taking quotes from DF's Xbone interview and making their own story here.

Here is link to DF original story: http://n4g.com/news/1368003...

Here is full quote from article with question for those who don't want to click link:

"Digital Foundry: Perhaps the most misunderstood area of the processor is the ESRAM and what it means for game developers. Its inclusion sort of suggests that you ruled out GDDR5 pretty early on in favour of ESRAM in combination with DDR3. Is that a fair assumption?

Nick Baker: Yeah, I think that's right. In terms of getting the best possible combination of performance, memory size, power, the GDDR5 takes you into a little bit of an uncomfortable place. Having ESRAM costs very little power and has the opportunity to give you very high bandwidth. You can reduce the bandwidth on external memory - that saves a lot of power consumption as well and the commodity memory is cheaper as well so you can afford more. That's really a driving force behind that. You're right, if you want a high memory capacity, relatively low power and a lot of bandwidth there are not too many ways of solving that."

[JuniorCE]

Oddly enough, it's a microsoft employee who said that B.S... No wonder...

[pete007]

i am not whaisting my grammar with you ps fanboys, but, actually ps3 uses a 3.2 GHz xdr 256 mb pool wich virtually would tear to pieces the gddr3 used on the 360, right?
even if ps4 has some edge, most people wont notice once the games will start pushing respective hardware to its best. youre making a show of some gigaflops diffrence, but when it comes to real raw power you all shut your big mouths when we start talking about some real machines with current real hardware(aka pc)
i am sticking with MSFT as long as their familly aproach and entertainment hub beats by far sony offer. for hi end gamming i have my pc rig that kicks alone some 10 Tf and smokes both systems, now go do your homework and leave the tech stuff to the pros

[Grindlefly]

You might want to turn on spell check on your high end pc :)

[pete007]

not exactly 10 tf, but its easy to do the maths
1 core i7 at 4.4+ asus GTX680+EVGA GTX 680
all synched at 1,20 GHz

bout 8tf total

no need to turn on anything, theres no game to max this rig yet , even unnoptimized games run locked at 120 fps full hd on my 50" 3d Panasonic VIERA

[Grindlefly]

Sweet rig

[Sh0ckWav3]

ok, not a tech guy here, but my question is if esram is soo much better, then why not just used 8gb of esram for the workload? why go with ddr/esram combo?

[pete007]

because 32mb of esram cost a fortune, just like the 10 mb of edram on 360. Microsoft doesnt sell the ONE at a loss just like sony does, because this time consoles wont stay around for that long due to competition. mobile gamming, tablets, all sort of device now is used for gamming. with some devices beeing updated very quickly, soon beeing a real threat to consoles. so i believe the best was not loosing a dime on each selled product because we dont know if the business model will continue to work on traditional ways. i predict myself a short gen this one, when wee see the specs, my God!! on 2 years time theyll be prehistoric!! if they dont copme out a next gen in about 5 years, the hole industry will have problems, because the HW devs cant stall their advances and SW people need to provide the right tools to push HW. correct me if....

[Kidmyst]

Yeah so, the PS3 was said to be hard and uncomfortable to develop for and look how great games were still made. Give Devs time.

[Gr1mmyshadows]

lmao if this article isnt fanboy bait then i dont know what it.
why do people even choose sides for. this isnt politics or religion. It sure isn't Star Wars! Its gaming, something we all love.

[LCEvans]

Why is it every time I come to this site to look at some news on the xbox one the comment section is filled with a bunch of clowns (PS4 kids mostly)? its the xbox category not the ps4's? I couldn't care less about spec's tbh so say what you will, im getting the xbox because I want one not because of specs as for graphics im happy with the current gen so who cares.

Now grow up and do something more productive instead of commenting on every news article.