Battlefield 4: “We should be slapped” for BF3′s unlocks, says creative director

Battlefield’s key differentiator is its hardcore appeal, but it’s this very quality that prevents it from commanding the same success as Call of Duty. Battlefield 4 creative director Lars Gustavsson admits to VG247 that DICE hasn’t always balanced this tension as successfully as it might have.

[HaMM4R]

"Hardcore appeal" HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[UnholyLight]

Well definitely there is some hardcore appeal. Battlefield is sort of inbetween. Battlefield is the best trade off between fun gameplay and a level of realism.

I can't play games like Operation Flashpoint because they are just so frustrating and boring

[Gazondaily]

To be honest, I preferred the way you had to struggle with jets to unlock the counter-measures. Its what helped be become a better pilot. But each to their own I guess...

[BlackTar187]

Accept if you were a late joiner the fight to become better was basically just frustrating. You don't become a better pilot by being spawn shot by missles as you just get off the ground.

For early people yea but after about 6months it wasn't doing anythign but being annoying.

[Soldierone]

It's just weird they jumped to that. There are plenty of other issues with BF3 that I hope they looked at.

-Quick Game should only be for DICE servers, not "dont kill the admin, let him be a god" servers. THIS alone would make the game way more accessible than dumbing down the pilots.

-Spawning is an issue. At this point with BF3, I prefer spawning "randomly" on the map. At least then you have a fighting chance to run somewhere and not get spawn trapped. ("but but but you haz no skill if yous gets spawn trapped!!!" stfu, not everyone plays with clans or groups of friends!)

-If a person is bombing the spawn base, the jets and vehicles should spawn faster than if they were actually in the field. This would prevent people from spawn camping with jets and heli's. There should be a 5 second buffer from take off.

[BlackTar187]

Soldier,

I agree man good post.
Quick game into servers with 100000000 tickets was annoying and the same map. totally agree

Spawning in a spawn camped small square was annoying. They should have a timer for enemy heli and jets that is active on how long they still inside the zone before they blow up. I mean one that continues to go not just a 5 sec and boom but a 1 min that is forever with them in the vehicle.

Bombs i think would be helpful to not explode inside the spawn zones but this is a problem for people posting up at the line and firing with complete protection. I dunno but great post.
Bubbles up

[Kleptic]

the base zoning, and camping it creates, was a mess in bf3...

I don't get whats so hard to overcome balance wise...Even the people doing the spawn camping, aren't doing it because its 'fun'...it happens because the enemy team you are playing is terrible, and you just want them to either quit or for the next round to start as soon as possible...preferably both...

I've always felt a simple answer to this is related to vehicles, and the 'winning' teams deployment...

If its a map with vehicles...if you hold all flags and have the enemy held in their own deployment...your team stops spawning vehicles...the enemy team stuck at deployment should receive some kind of easy to understand message like: "focus on their vehicles" or whatever, and everyone uses guided weaponry or something to easily wipe out whats left...without vehicles on the big maps, there is no way to hold an entire team of 32 players in a base...

you don't get your own vehicles back until something is taken...an incentive for both teams to avoid a shut out, and just aggressively fight for a single position, out of base, if you're up against the less fortunate...

the other, for non vehicle maps, is the time it takes at deployment...it could just be layered in as 'rules of engagement' or something...if you shut out the other team, you wait longer at deployment if killed...allowing the stuck team to pick a few people off, and get a window of reduced numbers to move out of their own spawn...

The problem isn't the unorganized teams getting shut out...there is no way to fix the lack of team work and inherent lack of talent that a group of randoms is going to possibly have...but you very much CAN put measures in place that remove any incentive on pushing a team back that far...

for public matches...most platoons of friendly guys would just walk away from their deployment if they happened to start shutting the other guys out...NO ONE has fun doing that...my platoon would do it all the time...but when its just a few platoon guys mixed with randoms, both friendly and enemy; there really needs to be some changes to further address this...

imo at least...but w/e ha...

[Regis]

I believe you just gave the best ideas that dice needs to incorporate in BF4 and possible future games.

[Flavor]

Battlefield series has gone straight vanilla. It is just a call of duty wannabe, and it could have been so much more.

[BlackTar187]

I've played every BF i believe. I've played most COD's not CODMW3 though. I don't see that much COD in BF . I still feel the core of BF has remain intact for the most part. I don't know about 4 but other then Metro on BF3 which was still a fun map for me i don't see it that much.

but to each their own. BF 2142 had some close quaters maps. They had big outside the walls areas of those maps but the most fighting was done at the corridor entrances.

[lfPetrini]

I love Battlefield but I have to agree. The last releases are losing that BF feeling, and they keep adding nonsense features to make it feels like COD

[BlackTar187]

Hey guys im asking this 100% with the intention of having a conversation about it.

Can you elaborate? I have played all the BF's and would like to know specifically. Im not against seeing your side of it if you guys can clue me in a little. I could just be getting old and forgetting what i remember from all the other BF's

[HaMM4R]

For me its really about a few things.

1. Regenerating health. It really makes medics redundant, thereby decreasing the amount of teamwork.

2. Vehicle regenerating health. In what universe was this ever a good idea? It makes engineers redundant thereby reducing teamwork.

3. Dumbed down and simplified classes. All of the classes are just melded into 4. I think battlefield 2 had the class system almost perfect, but BF3 came along and messed everything up. Who thought it was a good idea to give the forward assault class the medic capabilities? All it does is encourage people to rush and not help out the team.

4. Vehicle unlocks. Really puts players who have just started playing at a disadvantage.

5. Lack of mod support. Mods were the best thing to happen to battlefield and they removed them.

6. DLC. There is DLC planned before the game is even out! Infact there is more content in DLC than there is in the base game. I have to pay double the amount just to get the full experience. And the fact all of the DLC is planned just really gets to me. Its like instead of feeling they should add something to the game and think how they can improve it, all they are thinking about is how they can make more money.

Its a shame really because I really do love battlefield.

[BlackTar187]

Hammer,

Thanks
1. Regenerating health. It really makes medics redundant, thereby decreasing the amount of teamwork.

I agree although my medic buddies in bf3 were really helpful and i gues i just never really was heavily affected by this but good point

2. Vehicle regenerating health. In what universe was this ever a good idea? It makes engineers redundant thereby reducing teamwork.

OMG this couldn't be any truer in encouraged people to run the entire time to get health back. this is 100% even if your post ended here im bubbling up for that.

3. Dumbed down and simplified classes. All of the classes are just melded into 4. I think battlefield 2 had the class system almost perfect, but BF3 came along and messed everything up. Who thought it was a good idea to give the forward assault class the medic capabilities? All it does is encourage people to rush and not help out the team.

I agree i guess(this falls into getting old forgot what it used to be )

4. Vehicle unlocks. Really puts players who have just started playing at a disadvantage.

Only agree here in that the unlocks make the more advanced players(in time) even stronger. They should balance out unlocks so they are options in style not in which one gives the most advantage to the already heavily armored vehicle.

5. Lack of mod support. Mods were the best thing to happen to battlefield and they removed them.
Bf3 is the first one i didn't play n PC (i did but orgin sucks balls so i played for like 2 hrs on PC) Loved the mods on BF2 like vampire hunter and such.

The DLC is lame agreed. Nothign to say about that other then Agreed. I miss the real Expansion on BF2. I loved the Night ops one where all the maps were at night and you used NV and had a gun to get up into windows and such. Plus adding NYC etc

[HaMM4R]

Thats fair enough. If people do disagree with me id love to hear why.

[WeedyOne]

@Hammer

I agree with some of your points. However regenerating health and regenerating vehicles don't make the class abilities redundant.

For one Medics have the ability to revive a downed player.

Also the vehicles regenerate VERY slow. If you relied on that to survive you will not survive long without the help of an engineer.

The rest of your points I fully agree with.

[Pandamobile]

Have you played Call of Duty?

Have you played Battlefield 4? They're not remotely similar. At all...

You have guns and you shoot people. That's about where the similarities end.

[HaMM4R]

You are correct. They are different. But battlefield is slowly becoming more of a casual call of duty style game. The gameplay between the two will always differ, but at the end of the day BF is just trying to casualize which is a huge shame.

[Pandamobile]

How is it more casual than say Bad Company 2?

I've put 1000+ hours into BF2, 2142, BFBC2, BF3 and around 8 into the BF4 beta and nothing has ever screamed "casual" to me.

What even defines a casual shooter experience? Instant gratification? Quick pacing? Floaty controls and weapon handling? Is it just an arbitrary distinction given to games that sell well?

[HaMM4R]

As far as I'm concerned it was after the first bad company things started to go down hill. Bad company was in development before call of duty became really successful therefore it had no influence on the development of the game. It stuck with the core battlefield experience. No regenerating health, a more in depth class system and a battlefield weapon unlocks system. When BC2 was in development call of duty was a huge franchise and therefore the development of BC2 was effected by that. Regenerating health and dumbed down unlock system.

But BC2 still kept in tact the feel of BF far better than 3 did. The classes are geared towards teamwork, no vehicle regenerating health, AWESOME DLC and best of all it felt unique to BFBC1, which in my opinion BF4 does not over 3.

[Pandamobile]

Agree to disagree I guess.

The Bad Company series was good, but Battlefield 3 is actually a Battlefield game. If you've only played Battlefield games on consoles, then that may the problem. BF3 is an entirely different game on PC.

[lfPetrini]

I have played all the BFs also on PC and I can't remember a single one in which I could just get my vehicle back to base to regenerate, besides the last one. And I'm pretty sure this isn't a console only feature. And the classes are now messed up. And there is that breath holding system when sniping. It would be a good idea if it was done just to add realism, but it saddens me they just did it because of COD.

[Soldierone]

Why keep trying to be COD though? It sold well, but its on its way out and what is Activision themselves doing? They go pick up Destiny which is something entirely different. So what, if that game launches like COD, then suddenly is space shooters galore with Destiny Wannabe perks?

What was COD trying to be when it got big? Something different. People were sick of WWII shooters, COD went and stepped out of that to a modern setting, and it exploded. Was it first? No, it just stepped away and people noticed. Now everyone is going "we want that COD title, so make it" and no one will get it until they learn to make something new.

[thejoker1000]

“We should be slapped”
i will slap you with big f***ng smile on my face

[SITH]

Should be slapped for nerfing weapons.

[HeyImBen11]

For making the game more fair? You were probably one f the USAS 12 users.

[SITH]

I used what ever got the job done, just like I used what ever got the job done in reality. My choice of weapons was based on power, speed, range, and lethality. It was not based on whether it was socially acceptable with the cry baby committee. My skill was based on how fast I pulled the trigger, and put reticule on target. Little babies like you who got butt hurt over being shot by a weapon that fired explosive rounds should not be my problem when you are afforded the same access. In reality, frag rounds are even more lethal with a 6 meter kill radius. In the game before being nerfed, it was less than three. I do not expect a degree of realism in the BF series except with the weapons. And when a high explosive tank round hits and explodes pointblank in front of an enemy soft target with virtually no effect on target, there is a problem. A nerf problem.

[HeyImBen11]

Oh yes, you wer a Usas 12 with flagrounds user LMAO! You just wrote the most stupid text ever. It was the most OP weapon in a BF game ever created, end of story. There was nothing like "based on how fast i pull the trigger". LOL.

I hope you'll never have the chance to work on a videogame, you will probably say to your players "If you are complaining about the gun that kills ever squad in a few shots, shut up, you can use the weapon too".

LMAO!!!

[My_Name_BTW_Is_Dante]

So now BF3.5 will be casualized.

[cell989]

what pissed me off about BF3 the most was when they introduced the Premium service and all those noobs that bought it unlocked everything without breaking a sweat, It took me many hours of gameplay to unlock everything, to have the right to ride a fully equipped jet, only to let the noobs have it by just paying

[Gigaguy777]

Premium doesn't unlock anything, it gives you DLC. That's it. Please think before you post good sir.

[cell989]

yes all weapons in the original game become available as well as all enhancements for vehicles like heat seekers, stealth, and guided shells

[isa_scout]

I forgive you DICE, after all is said and done BF3 is still a helluva lot better than COD. Just worry about implementing everything you learned into BF4 and everything should be fine...Oh by the way, I'd so buy SW:Battlefront 3 over pretty much anything right now so get to work.

[EL Lanf]

I don't see it as dumbing down. It's just a case of not making the inexperienced players have another thing to disadvantage them. It's not like they're getting everything, just the bloody basics. It's one thing for the unlock system to make you more specialised, it's another if it simply makes you more powerful.

I unlocked just about every vehicle unlock within the first few weeks of BF3 being released, so I'm not butthurt either. If you can't take down new players just because they now have a similar level of equipment as you, then maybe you're just bad.

[urwifeminder]

Great to see they allowed chopper spawn camping in bf4 beta so many people on buildings with c4 love the look but dice are slowly loosing me sure I suck at the game I know but at least I could kill something before lol.

[quenomamen]

No you morons need to be not just slapped but kicked in the nuts for never fixing the godamn 2, 3 floor glitch in OP Metro and that stupid ass new Counter Knife in BF4. Yea ok, you can counter me trying to knife you, so then can I counter your counter ? And can you then counter my counter ?
How about just letting the first fucking guy die and be done with it.

No now where sitting here playing effin knife patty cake instead of playing the godam game. Nice move DICE, whats next a second chance perk ? Drop a live grenade when you die martyrdom perk ? If I wanted this type of nonsense in a FPS Id play Call It Doodie.