'Forced Camera Anti-Consumer' Says Sony

Sony says decision to offer PS4 without a camera based on consumer choice.

[JimmyLmao]

What more can I say... Sony speaks the truth.

[darthv72]

The odd part is everything the PS4 has been designed to do has been with the camera in mind. The controllers built with the move light bar, the social interactions with video chat (just to name a few).

when sony showed off the system, they did so with the camera and until they actually made the announcement that it would be separate, it was lead to believe that this time they would make it part of the package.

it obviously gave them the opportunity to cut the price of the system by not including it but seeing as there is more legitimacy to it being part of their initial vision, personally, i will be getting one when i do get my ps4.

to me, its the total package.

[-Foxtrot]

"The odd part is everything the PS4 has been designed to do has been with the camera in mind"

Not really...to me it seems like a gaming machine which has a focus on games and gaming related features.

I just think they have catered to the crowd who will want the camera so one side doesn't feel short changed.

[iamnsuperman]

I guess you could see it as anti consumer to not include it but I think the price justification really comes into play here. If we had to have the camera and the PS4 was gimped so that its price wasn't a lot higher a lot of people would be annoyed. It is a balance really. It is a shame but how many people are going to use the camera features? I suspect initially a lot but that would soon tail off.

At least the option is there for those who decide they want it (i.e. there is UI support for it) but it still isn't forced on the masses (as I think the masses really do not care about camera features and only a small proportion do)

[Wikkid666]

-Foxtrot

Then please tell me why the light bars are on each and every controller.

[thehitman]

I actually agree that Sony wants the camera to work and be successful but at the sametime they know what the consumers mainly want. They put the option there for those who want it and give great incentives to use it by having so much hardware and software integration at the start. Sony is probably hoping people pick up the camera anyway.

I myself have no interest in the camera as I had 1 before and I also have a Move controller but if you have a GF and she likes that sort of thing then its a great addiction.

[-Foxtrot]

@Wikkid666

Pretty sure they've said they have other plans for the lightbar. It's not JUST for motion control or the camera.

They fitted it in there so they can do other features with it while people who want to play the camera can use the same controller without switching to something else

[KonsoruMasuta]

Wikkid666, for people to utilize if they do buy the add on.

[JetP0619]

@ wiikid, the lightbars serve a lot of other purposes not just with the sony camera. for example different colors on it are used to identify who's player 1 or 2 or 3 or 4. It doesnt need the camera to function though in a way it has some benefits as it recognizes who is who when playing and thus it rearranges player positions from screen.

[hakeem0996]

LMAO Anti-consumer ,says the guy who charged $600 for the PS3 because he wanted to shove Bluray down everybody's throat .Yeah right !!!

I guess MS was right, and streaming was indeed the future . I've never purchased a Bluray movie .

[CynicalKelly]

It's called good PR. Sony have smart to capitalize on Microsoft's blunders and the current mentality of the majority of consumers.

They patented technology to block used games being played on their systems yet capitalized with good PR at E3 to make gamers think they care about gamers.

They are just doing the same thing here.

[GiggMan]

@Wikkid, the lightbar is for other stuff also. It tells which player is which. Can change colors during single player gameplay (think mood ring lol). Plus it just looks cool as hell...

[georgeenoob]

A "forced" camera is what's going to motivate developers to take advantage of such complex technology with kinect 2.0. If you don't want the camera, then don't buy an Xbox as simple as that. Stop pretending something's being forced. Kinect makes Xbox 1.

[Wikkid666]

Light bar only works with the camera... so it was 100% thought of with the camera in mind.

[Revolver_X_]

@Hakeem

A. When PS3 launched it was the cheapest blu-ray on the market.

B. If streaming is the future, then why did MS 180 the whole Always Online? Oh yea, X1 has a blu-ray in it, in case you didnt know.

Good try though

[Saigon]

Its such a play of words. I actually thought Sony made this statement in relation to MS but it turns out that this was a statement in regards to Sony's decision not to include the Camera. While I say good move for Sony, bad move for journalism.

[darthv72]

@revolver, PS3 was not the cheapest BD player. There were models from Samsung, RCA and even Sony that were cheaper. The reason they were cheaper was just prior to the PS3 release, they got price competitive with Toshiba and HDDVD.

Keep in mind that the PS3 came out when both sides took to giving away free movies as an incentive to garner consumers.

The average price of both a Bd player and HDDVD player was roughly $400 and that was when the Ps3 came out at $500 and $600 respectfully. Now obviously the PS3 did more than play movies so that was one way sony was trying to justify the pricing.

As to your 2nd point, streaming has long been at the front of MS which is why they invested more into their streaming engine (silverlight) and use that as the primary delivery engine for the movie and tv services on xbl.

Their involvement in the whole HD war was to stall the physical adoption and have consumers look at streaming as the better alternative to getting HD content to their TV's. There is some legitimacy to their idea.

just look at the increased number of streaming services since the 360 came out. some would say it was inevitable but in truth it was ushered in at a faster rate than the bluray adoption rate in comparison to DVD. And it is because of 1 word.....

convenience.

[loulou]

idiotic "sony speaks the truth" gets 54 agress to 18 disagrees

yet

darthv72 speaks the truth and it is 17 agrees to 28 disagrees

how could anyone that is not a fanboy pretend that n4g is not choc full of sony fanboys.

"other plans for the light bar" like what? it changes colour when you get shot in game?? yeah i always look at my controller when i am gaming.

are people really that stupid on here?

[XboxFun]

There is no doubt Sony took the camera out of the package as a direct result of price and under cutting MS.

Which is why they didn't release the price of the system when they first revealed the PS4.

A very smart move to wait and see what your competition is doing and offering, and then one up them by taking out certain pieces to make your system cheaper.

[Nekroo91]

"The odd part is everything the PS4 has been designed to do has been with the camera in mind"

if that was true we would see some games at launch using the camera... like the ones using kinect on xbox.

so dont make those assumptions

[Outside_ofthe_Box]

I think Sony should have bundled("forced") it in.

The PS4 might not get things that aren't gimmicks, but are actually welcomed additions like head tracking now because it's not bundled in. Head tracking is something that would give players an advantage over those that don't have a camera. Devs aren't going to want to risk imbalance in their games by having something like head tracking in it when they know not everyone is going to have a camera.

I know not everyone wants to pay the extra money for something they don't necessarily want, but yeah most would have the PS4 anyway or Sony could have just taken the extra loss.

Oh well, it definitely looks like the PS4 camera is getting a lot more support than the Eye did on the PS3 anyway.

[Legacy212]

@revolver
But no one asked for blu ray. Blu ray was new and scary technology in a world dominated by dvds. At the time HDtv werent that common in most homes. Im sure people were thinking why am I paying 599 or 699 or whatever for a blu ray player when I dont even have an hdtv. The fact is companies take risks and in sonys case the risk payed off. Companies need to take risks to innovate and I think that mictosoft deserves a chance to prove thrmselves just like sony did with the ps3

[shinrock]

that makes sense.

[madpuppy]

Same here, I pre-ordered the PS4, an extra controller, Knack and KZ:SF and the Camera. I think that they were going to be a pack in but, to beat MS by 100.00 they decided to leave it out. there are just to many obvious clues to that view. the controllers having a light bar, the advertised feature that the PS4 would know if you switched sides on the couch and would swap the screen accordingly. the PS4 being pre-installed with the software that requires the camera.

[NateCole]

To the idiots mentioning Blu ray. Kinetic optional. Blu ray is part of the PS3.

[parentoftheyear]

I'm glad they aren't forcing a camera on us. I had both kinect and PS eye. I used the PS eye for little big planet and that was it. Xbox kinect we bought it and played a dancing game once or twice. It just doesn't appeal to me as a gamer. Ps4 I'm buying asap xbox1, only when kinectless SKU available. If not then I won't.

[GmIsOnPt360]

BUT forced Blu-Ray was not? Its all a matter of perspective.

[GarrusVakarian]

Foretelling an industry standard(blu ray) is not the same as forcing a gimmick camera that is useless for hardcore games.

[-Foxtrot]

Oh come off it, blu ray players back then were really expensive, you were actually getting more for less with the PS3. I wish I knew that back then before I called it.

Without blu ray I doubt the Last of Us, Killzone, God of War and Uncharted would of looked THAT good without it.

It was a good long term call in my opinion, Microsofts DVD format held some games back in my opinion, for example look at L.A Noire instead of fitting all that pre order DLC on the disc they didn't because the 360 couldn't fit it all on so we got cut content.

[CocoWolfie]

what?! thats like saying a dvd drive is forced, and you can play both dvds and blu-rays on a blu-ray player

[GiggMan]

I know you're glad that HD-DVD was an option on 360 lol. If someone is going to force something on me I hope it's meaningful.

Kinect has no benefit for actual gaming Blu-Ray does.

[KonsoruMasuta]

What!? Blue Ray isn't a peripheral. That's like saying the DVD drive was forced.

[Sitdown]

Is the HDD forced? You don't necessarily need it for games.

[Death]

Blu-ray didn't make Uncharted, GoW, or any other game look nicer. Take that theory and toss it since it was unproven. Metal Gear couldn't be done since it was 50 gigs, blah, blah, blah. The digital copy was 9 gigs. Blu-ray needed duplicate data on the disc to speed up seek times. It was a bust. Sony used Playstation gamers to finance their war against HD-DVD. They won, we paid. Life goes on. If you want to believe that the programmers and Cell/GPU were not responsible for making the games look good, that is your prerogative. Blu-ray was simply a storage medium. Nothing more, nothing less. With the added cost of Blu, a couple games that were released didn't include a second disc. The downside was it chewed up a lot of HDD space.

[Drekken]

Give me a break. Are you still crying about Bluray?? Bluray has been a gift to gaming AND movies. Sony innovates and adds it in when it is needed. They did the same with DVD with the PS2. You really need to get lost with this crybaby argument.

A forced always on camera is way different than a larger medium for a new generation.

[Bimkoblerutso]

It wasn't so much the camera itself that was anti-consumer. It was the implementation. They could have designed the system around the Kinect and NOT forced features that basically turned the thing into a corporate spy-cam.

...oh wait...they totally changed direction with that? Those privacy shattering features that were essential to the functionality of the device were done away with within a couple of months?

Yeah, Microsoft was just seeing what they could get away with. They weren't trying to push the friggin industry forward.

[Ezz2013]

Blue Ray is forced ?!

i wonder why MS is putting it in xbox1 then

[DialgaMarine]

I guess Blu-Ray is somehow optional with XBone?

[NoLongerHereCBA]

Sorry to say this, but this is quite hypocrite of Sony to say. They removed the camera from the PS4 in order to offer a price below that of the competition (MS). I know they talk about it in the story, but if they didn't need to undercut the price, they would've kept the camera.

In my opinion Sony is sucking up too much lately. I know I get plenty of dislikes for this post (N4G duh), but you know that it is true since they have said so themselves. Live the lie al you want guys.

[thehitman]

Even w/ the camera its cheaper than the xb1. So I dont get your point. Sony camera is 59.99 MS camera is like 149.99.

[NoLongerHereCBA]

@thehitman (my last bubble so I can't respond)

It is about it being forced upon you. Whether it is 200 or 20$ is not of the essence. Sony would've gone for a 500$ price if the camera was included probably, since they are currently losing money per PS4 sale.

Sony was going to include it in the price initially, but they decided to remove in order to undercut the Xbox Ones price. That is what it is about.

Edit for JetP0619: I am not sure if it came directly from Sony. Could be that it really was just a rumor but:

"IGN claims that “multiple sources” say that PlayStation 4 was going to be priced at $499.99 – the same price as Xbox One – but the PlayStation Eye was removed from the base package at the last minute in order to undercut Xbox’s price strategy. “The last minute” could mean a number of things, but it likely doesn’t mean “on the day of E3.” Sony has even stated that they were elated when they learned of Xbox One’s price point, because it meant the had the advantage.

Those sources say that Sony informed retailers of the removal of the camera after deciding it “months” before E3, but didn’t comment to those retailers on how or if this impacted PS4′s price."

Link: http://www.gengame.net/2013...

If it really were only rumors than I apologize, but I believe there to be some truth in it, due to the lightbar in the controller etc (even though it has simple gimmicky futures that you rarely use, since you never look at your controller while playing a game)

[JetP0619]

link please or it never happened. From what's been shown ever since the reveal back in February 22, It was never confirmed that Sony originally had planned for all the ps4s to come bundled camera. They've always talked about catering to consumer's interests

[Kayant]

@VaizardNL

"Sony would've gone for a 500$ price if the camera was included probably, since they are currently losing money per PS4 sale"

What??? The point of including something is to offer it at a cheaper price so how it will now become $100 is stupid when the camera is $60 it would be cheaper because they're mass producing more at a time.

Also MS are not making money on the XB1 either they are trying to break even or at worst low margin which we don't know how low it will be. Breaking even is not making a profit. Like Sony they making money from services and games.

From the article -
"The strategy will continue which is that we're looking to be break even or low margin at worst on [Xbox One], and then make money selling additional games, the Xbox Live service and other capabilities on top,"
http://www.computerandvideo...

[Gamingcapacity]

Like I've said in previous comments, Sony never announced the camera was going to be part of the system. That camera cost less that $30 to make so even if they did have the camera they could still undercut the X1 by over $70.

There was nothing suggesting that Sony were going to include the camera other than people jumping the gun because they announced it at the same time to give their camera the best exposure as possible.

When the ps2, ps3 and ps4 were revealed the consoles where sitting in the official Sony stands but they were sold seperately. My point is that they can reveal stuff with the console but never intend to bundle them.

Sony never announced the camera being bundled so people really need to stop using that in arguments.

Edit: Really? Cut $100 or by removing something that costs less than $30 to make?? It doesn't add up and it doesn't add up with the claims made by sources but OK.

[darthv72]

@gamingcapacity, what you neglect to understand is that both the eyetoy and pseye were afterthoughts. They were not initially shown at the same time the systems were revealed.

they were released many years later as an add-on with limited support. This time, however, the notion of them making a new and improved ps4 eye with the the whole system being built to take advantage of it says that it was in their original intent to incorporate the camera as part of their complete experience.

Many have based their entire argument on "intent". Just look at the "intent' on Ms with the original policies that they changed their mind on. how or why is not the issue but the intent was there and that is usually enough to detract many from even seeing what strides they made since then.

So now back to sony, the original intent was to include the camera as a way to enhance the experience and by making it part of the system package would ensure a level of support that prior cameras lacked.

They chose to remove it from the package to cut costs. It was a risky move but one that seems to be paying off on their side seeing as Ms has stuck to their word in saying they want a kinect in every box.

[Rainstorm81]

@darth

The PS eye released less than a year after the PS3 launched not Years later.

Besides if it was ONLY to cut costs why did Sony bundle the PS4 two controllers Killzone SF and the camera for 499.99?

http://cdn2.sbnation.com/up...

Honestly with that bundle they could've just bundled the camera with every system.

[Gamingcapacity]

@darth
I don't really see the revelance between the two. It's just an updated camera to work with Move, video chat and the new DS4. The Playstation Eye had a lot of problems with background cancelation and quality of stream in poor lighting. It's simply an update to the PS Eye.

Why do people think that Sony needs to undercut the X1 so badly. It doesn't need to undercut the X1 by $100 (maybe $50) in the US and it certainly doesnt in Europe and Japan (it could retail for the same price and still sell more. PS3 outsold the 360 in Europe and Japan while being sold for more).

I really think Sony planned the strategy way in advance of E3. Decision go a lot deeper than a quick change within hours. They have people that weigh up all the details and then it would probably go through meetings to plan it all out.

[2cents]

"a decision was taken - and I think it was absolutely the right decision - which is, to force bundle a camera is probably against consumer choice."

I agree completely with this comment if what your selling is a camera that is an accessory to the experience.

As much as I would like to avoid the hate that I will undoubtedly get for saying this but the PS camera is not as well realised or integrated into the PS4 experience as is the kinect is to xbox one.

The Kinect is a superior product, and the utilization is far more involved then what a 'camera' can offer. Coupled with the fact that the whole user interface has been built with the kinect in mind, there is a greater need to have it integrated with the xbox one experience.

I also totally understand that many people don’t get, or want the kinect and the experience it offers and would be happier with an Xbox One without it. But this is a new generation of consoles, which means new tech and experiences.

It comes down to personal choice.

p.s. please don’t take even more bubbles from me just for expressing my opinion, im not hating on anyone, just giving my thoughts on the situation.

[AngelicIceDiamond]

Yeah, Anti consumer for the PS4.

[zippycup]

no Sony now some people would want the camera so they added light bar to controllers it dosent bother us who don't care about camera but later on if i decide i want one i don't have to buy all new controllers

[AlphaJunk]

The odd thing about Sony's statement is that almost any cell phone or tablet you buy has a camera - why is no one calling that anti-consumer? Everyone should get over the camera thing. Geez, a bunch conspiracy theorists and crybabies.

[Mithan]

That is crap. It isn't "anti consumer".

What is next? It is anti-consumer to offer a game pad with the system? Is it anti-consumer to put in a hard drive?

Was it anti-consumer to sell the PS3 at $600 with a Blu-Ray player?

Using Sony's logic, it is.

Come on, don't be stupid.

The PS4 is obviously the better value here, but Sony shouldn't start turning into arrogant idiots like they did with the PS3 launch.

Microsoft has chosen to offer a camera (which the majority of us feel is useless). Knock them on price, don't knock them for being "anti consumer", at least for this.

Microsoft chose to offer a camera as a key component to their system. Good for them. I don't care for it personally, but it is far from "anti consumer". Sony is just plain dumb in this article.

[malokevi]

Exactly. Its all about choice. MS chose to include the camera for what they think is good reason, and people are free to choose not to buy an XB1. Suggesting that anything is "forced" is retarded.

Most of us live in a free country. Do what you want with your money. Personally, I'll be grabbing an Xbox one on day 1.

I've already started using voice commands when I want something done =D Just a little warm up...

[lifeisgamesok]

MS is trying to create new gameplay experiences and they have some good ideas on ways to implement Kinect

Example: In Dead Rising 3 you can say a word and the zombies will hear you and come after you in a dark area

If they don't include it developers don't use it because they don't know how many users have Kinect

[GTgamer]

What type of dumb shit is that make noise and zombies come shit i listen to music when i play games DR2 and people in my house are loud so that makes it bad for me.

[lifeisgamesok]

That's just one example and I'm pretty sure people that are buying the game are fine with it. You're probably a Sony nuthuger anyway lol

[Hufandpuf]

Just turn that option off.

[NoLongerHereCBA]

I think this option is quite awesome (if you have the option to disable it). Let's say you are playing the game and you are trying to keep really still in order to not alarm zombies, but then you have a Giant Sneeze incoming and you alarm a horde of zombies towards you. Yes it sounds gimicky and it might be, but it is awesome that things like this can be added to the game due to the camera being included. The likelyhood of these type of things to be included if the device wasn't delivered with every console would be very small.

[Xsilver]

@lifeisgamesok you do know a simple mic could be used for that little feature smfh so why do we need kinect again, clearly you and MS can't find a reason to use the kinect.

[Regis]

Do you not see the movies where one person attracts a horde of Zombies to keep them away from others?

[malokevi]

Spark mocap, facial animation capture and dialogue recording. Check that.

"Wahhhhh I hate one feature in one game and therefore Kinect is useless wahhhhh"

Thats what you all sound like... and nobody cares :p

[Kayant]

True but it hasn't stopped devs from developing multiple of kinect titles that are on the X360 atm or developing for the two past eyetoys.

The point is there are just about as many people that don't care for kinect as a gaming peripheral/extension as there is that do. Do you force all does people into paying for the kinect?

Then there is the UI naviagtion/voice controls which are gimmicks to me because I would only use them a couple of times again like me some people may not be interested in this. Do you force also force these people into paying for the kinect?

[Majin-vegeta]

Kinect is sh*t and a gimmick.Where are these so called innovative ideas M$ kept harping about back when kinect first was going to release??

[abusador]

Didnt you see Milo? Oh wait.......

[-Foxtrot]

They were never going to come out...as soon as it went from Natal to Kinect it showed you that Natal was a gamers wet dream and how it was basically an exaggerated lie of the real product they were going to release later down the line

In my opinion I think they did it so hardcore gamers would buy it and give it a chance.

[WeAreLegion]

That being said, I think Milo was a great concept that could be done properly one day. A few developers are doing similar things with Oculus Rift. Most of them are creepy dating sims though.

[sloth3395]

they use to do that in splinter cell games just using a regular mic just like with rainbow six you could use voice commands with a mic only to tell your team to frag and clear a room Kinect was never needed for anything like that before

[Xsilver]

@life i like how your example is completely useless and is a perfect example of how people will not use that feature because its obstruction from the game you're playing please give better examples since MS can't.

[TheTwelve]

You can also press a button on your controller, that will make your character in the game make a noise, and leading the zombies to come.

(I'm assuming you want to make the zombies fall into a trap, right?)

If you're saying that you have to stay quiet while playing Dead Rising with Kinect in case the zombies come after you...well, that's just plain stupid.

[WeAreLegion]

You can do that with a headset, too...

[Kayant]

Personally I agree especially if the device started life as an optional peripheral.

[darthv72]

In most respects, what starts out as an option could eventually become a standard. Ms is wanting to make kinect a standard. they have to start somewhere.

[Rainstorm81]

I feel like Kinect shouldnt be standard as we havent seen useful implementation yet.

Mostly motion games for casuals and voice commands for the hardcore

I think dual screen Smartglass/Tablet implementation Next-gen will be more attractive to Core gamers than both motion controls and voice commands

[Steven3657]

I am much happier saving money than being forced to purchase the camera.

[BlackWolf]

Sony knows how to win people over... :)

[GarrusVakarian]

Choice is a very important thing. Glad i can choose not to buy it instead of paying extra for something im never even going to plug in.

[abusador]

Sony knows how to talk that talk but also walk it!!!!! While other companies are doing 180s, smoke, mirrors, downgrades, taking weak jabs at competition, scurrying for their lives and lying the whole way through, Sony is providing, upgrading games and giving the best services!!!!

Im get irritated because Nov. 15th isn't coming fast enough!!!! grrrrrr

[JamieL]

Sony's on it's last leg homie, they can't make another PS3 mistake.

[abusador]

According to ppl like you Sony wasn't going to make a ps4 bcus it was on its last leg with Vita. Do you know Sony is still one of the richest corporations in Forbes 500? Sony may have lost money bit thy have billions, not only that Sony gaming in total is one of there shining stars, don't get fooled by the bozo talk on here homie.

[JamieL]

Dude, you can't ignore the numbers when it comes to this stuff. The PS3 was a financial disaster for Sony. I think you need to look into how corporations work. As a gamer I say the PS3 was awesome and is still going strong, but Sony isn't in this to make gamers happy at the expense of profit. When a corporation stops making profit it's done, period. Do you not see the major shift in Sony's tactics? They need to start turning a profit period. If they don't make money they won't stay in business, no matter how many gamers back their decisions. I'm not saying I want this to happen or even agree with these policies, I absolutely loath the system and how it's built on nothing but greed, but if you think Sony's in this because they have a big heart for gamers, then their PR department has done their job with you, well.

Edit: You say " Sony may have lost money bit thy have billions, not only that Sony gaming in total is one of there shining stars, don't get fooled by the bozo talk on here homie"

How long do you think the shareholders will watch their money disappear? They can't just keep losing money on every venture, all I'm saying is the PS4 can't be another PS3 or all your "Matter-of-Fact" talking about Sony's financial superiority won't count for $hit. Homie.

[thejoker1000]

you can learn from that microscam

[user7402931]

go sony! woot woot.

[4logpc]

Sorry but this is PR Spin. Many places have said they heard from Sony themselves the camera was cut to keep the cost down.

[Majin-vegeta]

Lol no.

[4logpc]

Lol yes

[Death]

Typical PR BS. Sony and Microsoft will say what people want to hear. The PSEye being an "option" means it will get little to no support. This is how it has been since we all started playing video games. If Sony were trully about choice and against being anti-consumer, then why did they decide everyone gets to pay for PS+ if they want to play online? Where is the choice that had been offered by Sony for the past two gens?

Sony didn't make a camera standard because they wanted the price advantage. It has nothing to do with making games better or being pro-consumer.

If history has taught us anything, if the Xbox One does not sell as Microsoft expects, Kinect will be removed or it will be "free" when Microsoft drops the consoles price to be more competitive.

[from the beach]

Well said. I've literally zero confidence in buying a Sony camera as a separate product, after picking up PS Eye/Move this gen. Either include it and do it properly or don't even release the thing.

[Brix90]

Ps eye and Kinect benefit Live stream gamers with sharing gameplay especially when you can use them as a webcam to live cam stream. Its all about choice an they gave consumers that, I think that both made good cameras with potential for something but MS did it wrong by not making it optional.

[Brix90]

There charging for PS+ because Sony spent millions on buying Gakai cloud service which is worth the money considering we'll be able to play remotely anywhere. Also PS+ isn't needed to play F2p, use Netflix, YouTube or any other service for that matter. Not to mention all the free games we get a month, so that sounds good to me.

So no games are supporting the eye because it's optional.

http://gamingbolt.com/war-t...

Not mention that PS eye has the same features as Kinect like facial and voice recognition.

[XboxFun]

"There charging for PS+ because Sony spent millions on buying Gakai cloud..."

I really doubt that, they saw a chance to get extra money and they took it, plain and simple, they're a business just like MS. The reason those F2P and other apps or not behind the paywall makes no difference because they know most will pay for Plus to get the full benefit of the console's features and AAA games. So placing those apps where ever doesn't matter.

I doubt the majority of consumers are buying a $400 PS4 to only play F2P games that can be played on the PC for free also.

[Death]

PSEye does not have the same features as Kinect. It has some of the features of Kinect. They are completely different technologies. As for head tracking with PSEye or Kinect, unless you have a multi-monitor display and a graphics card that supports it, how will this work? If I am sitting in front of my tv and look right, I see stairs. If I look left I see a window. Place a monitor in those positions and it's really cool. Head tracking on a single display doesn't really work.

As for Gaikai, how does PS+ fund it? Are you thinking Gakai is going to be free? Sony hasn't released much information (does this mean the PS4 is rushed?), so I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion. Either way, you can justify that the Gaikai aquisition adds value to the additional fee, but can't understand why the inclusion of Kinect adds value to the Xbox One. It's odd. What if you have no interest in Gaikia or Plus and still want to play ALL games online? Where is the pro-consumer choice?

[JamieL]

I disagree with all of you, Sony is charging for MP because they need to make money period. I don't think they made anything off the PS3 until 2012. That sucks, and corporations don't last preforming that bad. I think they saw how successful the 360 was for MS and cloned their model. I see the PS3 as the 360 2, but if you think any corporation in the world is in this for anything other than profit, you are stupid plain and simple.

[Legacy212]

So my camera on my phone and on my laptop is anti consumer? Come on kinect is xbox one anx xbox one is kinect. Just like phones and lap tops have cameras whether or not I use them is up to me but it still drives the cost of the devices up and no one complains.

[MrDead]

They are saying not having the choice is anti consumer. They are not saying having a camera is anti consumer.

[Legacy212]

Yea but I dont have a choice to buy an iphone without a camera is that anti consumer from apple? Same goes for most laptops. Should I go up in arms against apple, hp, or samsung? The camera drives the cost up on those items. Its hypocritical to judge microsoft for trying something innovative and new but not saying anything about other companies.

[Tctczach]

Coming from the company that cut it out for a price cut? Ok sure.

[LordNikon]

But those were just rumors. So you can't even say for sure if that line of thinking is fair against Sony.

[Tctczach]

http://m.ign.com/articles/2... really? Was it? Multiple sources seem to disagree with you.

[LordNikon]

Yes, its a rumor. Multiple sources, no confirmation.

[ziggurcat]

not that it matters since you don't even have to plug the thing in anymore, but MS should at least think about putting out a SKU that does not have kinect at a lower price point. i think they'd sell like hotcakes if they were to do that.

[CrossingEden]

Yea yea more jabs at the competition sony, now go back to advertising features that already exist, like being able to sign in on multiple accounts on the same console. Maybe they take so many jabs at the competition because they have nothing new to offer besides new tech and steam games, half of which are already out.

[Brix90]

Sony was just saying that it's better to have choice and with all the backlash on Kinect the camera bundle would seem anti consumer. There not saying its anti consumer since there selling a camera after all.

[Campy da Camper]

Look, if people want kinect then give it to them. If people do not want kinect then let them buy the system without it. Why is that so hard to understand? Devs can do easy patches for spots of games that require you to stand up or wave your arms: it's called mapping controls to the buttons.

[corvusmd]

Well this is a complete waste of an article. We knew this back at E3. Just trying to stir up more fanboy wars I see.

[hankmoody]

How many of you die hard PS4 supporters are aware that you are being taken for a PR ride with these comments? The Kinect is an integral part of the Xbox One, the same way that the controller is. It's a peripheral that will get solid backing from not only MS but devs as well. Like I've said countless times, the fact that the devs know that there is a Kinect packaged with every XB1 will make them much more likely to develop their titles with Kinect features in mind than they would a peripheral (the PS Eye) that will have nowhere near a 1:1 ratio of systems to cameras.

This is the same company that tried to jam Blu Ray down everyone's throats with the PS3 at a ridiculous price, one of the main reasons why that system took so long to start selling in decent numbers. Sony's just feeding off of all the negativity you guys are so happy to spread around and they're pretending to cater to you all just so you can buy their product and help give them a leg up in the next gen race.

[XabiDaChosenOne]

Jamming Blu ray down your throat? Like they jammed DVD and CD down your throat also? Like Nintendo jammed cartridges down your throat? Like any console with any type of media format being jammed down your throat? Was this comment supposed to be a joke?

[ChipdiddyChip]

Sony not including the camera with the console has got nothing to do with 'consumer choice' and more to do with 'price' of the console and business. Any person with common sense will see that but fanboys wont, and now they are using the 'anti consumer' bullcrap to put Microsoft in negative light, like they did at Gamescon and E3. Its disgusting tactics and unprofessional imo and I don't support companies that play that way. People will still eat it up though which disappoints me a lot.

[My_Name_BTW_Is_Dante]

Forced touchpads, lights, & share buttons are anti-consumer when talking about the hardcore gamers too. They should allow you to use the PS3 controller or make a controller similar without all of the other gimmicks attached to it.

[XabiDaChosenOne]

But these don't come at an extra cost to the consumer, I'm sorry sir but your comparison was horrible.

[nightfallfilms]

More Sony PR BS!! Why does Sony have to continue with its childish rhetoric? Let your awesome games and system do the talking, you got my money. But you make me wonder sometimes why I am supporting you when you continue your corporate bad mouth strategy that seems like it was cooked up by a five year old.

I for one like that Kinect is bundled and don't mind paying the extra $100 for it. Having three kids makes that a no brainier along with the xbox's functionality being built around it. Now that being said I am a bit pissed at MS for going with a weaker console because of it. I still plan on owning both consoles anyway, just looks like this time multi platform games will have to be bought on the PS4.

[TheRealHeisenberg]

Yep, Sony will have my money too. All they need to do is keep MS out of their mouths.

[ALLWRONG]

And what is forced online pay to play Sony? If forcing anything is anti consumer then why do you force people to pay to play? Sad thing is it's something Sony used to trash MS for, then they copied it. Sony also forced Blu-ray in the PS3 causing the price to go up.

Keep talking Sony because all this is going to come back and bite you in your ***.

[EXVirtual]

I agree that paying for the online is a pain in the butt. But I guess Sony just wants to expand the service.
Plus, MS trashed Sony quite a lot back when the PS3 came out. But I'm not really bothered about these statements.
There's no forced camera and I'm good with that.

[whitesoxfalife1976]

OK let me chime in on this,

When Sony announce the ps4 in Feb,they really didn't elaborate everything on what's to offer for us the sorta briefed the idea, reason being no console being shown,

When E3 came around they were intended on reintroducing the camera as a whole package then the price and etc,but when Microsoft did there thing back in May and later@E3, Sony said "shit let's not add the camera because of the backlash that MS have gotten earlier that morning. Remember MS went first at e3. Sony called an audible and went in hard @MS.
When they said the system wud be 500, Sony then said nah let's undercut they asses by making it 400. Sony had spies at the Microsoft e3 event to send back that info, cuz it was right on cue when Trenton came and stated we are cheaper and we are not gonna force you what you don't want on your ps4.... Everybody went wild for about 3-5min.

I really think Sony was gonna do something similar like Microsoft. Instead they went the b1ch route.
At least this how I perceive it to be....

So in return microsoft had to do all the policy reversal or the famous180 as everyone calls it, after they heard Sony didn't follow up on their end of the bargain.

I bet Microsoft was like "damit Sony why did u audible on us, we thought you was on board in moving the industry forward"

so the way I see it is that give it a few years from now all them policies will be back in place from Microsoft and no one will notice to much of a difference. In fact Sony already announce a bundled camera&game,its still cheaper than 500 so Sony will likely sneak the camera back in future packaging as originally planned. And we all forget about what happen in 2013 the year of the BS marketing.

[TheRealHeisenberg]

I don't know if any of that is true but if so I'd have to say well played on Sony's part...sort of.

[whitesoxfalife1976]

Yes indeed a well played tactic, companies does this all the time tho, its just we got to see it blatantly right in front of our eyes.

[buynit]

i wish Sony would of sold every ps4 with the camera it would have persuaded developers to code for it.. Kinect takes off and ends up adding great experiences to games then we will see all the, well ps4 can do it too...

[UnHoly_One]

Translation: "We planned to force it on people, too, but changed our mind at the last minute to undercut MS on price. Now we are saying things like this because our fanbase worships everything we say and do and they will take it as gospel."

[kingPoS]

I do wonder if you can use the camera to take or shoot 3D pictures & video.
Sony's been real mum on that particular detail.

For some reason the pastel colors of PlayStaion's face buttons seem less threatening than they are on the Xbox. lol For some some odd reason I never actively noticed the playstation's subtle tone of the action buttons until someone compared it the Xbox's bright schemes.

Go figure!

[whitesoxfalife1976]

And that is the thing they really haven't gone in depth of their camera I said the same thing myself, but they are riding off the coattails of Microsoft bad pr.

No one really knows what Sony camera have to offer just tidbits of info here and there....

[TheObserver]

Sony never forced include a camera in PS1, PS2, PS3, and they are not about to change their track record. People are seriously grasping and reaching to do damage control for Xbone and MS.

Xbros "Sony is going to do it too" syndrome is hella funny. First it was DRM and 24 hr check in crap. Now this.

[buynit]

No no no... You got the syndrome all wrong its " Sony CAN do it too" or the infamous " Sony did it first"

Sony didn't add the camera because kinect wipes the floor with it plain and simple. Sony dropped it to gain an extra 60 bucks advantage but i can also understand Sony easing off this area. Sony does have a lot going on and imo are in a position to dominate in more areas Im looking forward to remote play on ps4 games and streaming my ps4 game to another room.

I like the over all picture Im seeing with Sony especially since i already have a vita i will have a ps4 and plan on getting a vita tv if i really can stream my games..

But Im loving the xb1 too the way everything interacts with your entertainment is great imo xb1 has a better shot at dominating the living room, how can you not love the "tv tv tv" Feature? I can see the xb1 taking more of my time out of the 2 thanks to the hdmi input.

[MultiConsoleGamer]

Spin.

They dropped the camera because people hated it. They dropped the camera because they wanted to reach a lower price point than the Xbox One.

Meanwhile the DS4 controller has a light bar and it was designed to be used with the camera. This whole story is just more spin, and once again Sony is on the attack.

[marcofdeath]

Albert Penello ‏@albertpenello

@Authentic201 We upgraded the CPU and GPU in Xbox One several weeks ago.

https://twitter.com/albertp...

http://www.gameora.com/tag/...

[MAULxx]

These camera gimmicks are a waste of development time & money.
The only thing good for gaming & potential for these things is using it with VR. When we get the VR headset for PS4 then I might consider a camera. That's the only scenario to see these things as an actual gaming peripheral & a must have option.
It would be pretty awesome with VR.

[FAT MAN GO BOOM]

Only a moron would excepted the forced camera's and think it is a perk meant for them. When MS has an agenda.

Only morons think it is just for the consumers experience...

Less then half of the Xbox 360 owned or used their cameras... but now You have no choice but to pay for something many of theMS consumers don;t want...

I am glad sony is letting consumers choose what they want to spend their money on, I am glad I will not be forced in getting a camera...

Killsome me those that say Sony left out the camera just to sell the PS4 a lot less then MS over priced POS...

Even with the Camera and a PS4 I still save 40 bucks...

I am sorry I pissed at MS... after Owning both Xbox original and the Xbox 360 I am sadden to see them try to undermine gamers and feed us nothing but lies and lies...

nothing comes out as yes or no but in sever shades of grey and are spun and spun till people forget what the hell they were asking...

MS give us a Console At a fair price for fair hardware, let us choose if we want the camera not.... If I was to buy an X1 I would not hook up the Camera so why are you forcing us to do that...

I was looking to owning all three systems again Since Nintendo made the wii U which I like but hated the Wii, I was looking forward to owning a MS,Niny and SOny system again...

But with MS releasing this POS X1... No way I am buying that... I will make do with the other systems I have...

My only hope is MS X1 fails and fails fast. Only to have MS release a down to earth system that fair in price with nor forced camera.... Because as a gamer there are many great games I would love to play... but MS is asking way to much...

[arbitor365]

the move has always been treated as a peripheral. they never shoved it down people's throats like microsoft has with the kinect. just look at microsoft's 2010, 2011, and 2012 E3 conferences. and look how they dumped all these resources into garbage kinect games like star wars, fable the journey, and steel battalion.

with sony they used it as a peripheral with great games like killzone 3, heavy rain, and littlebigplanet. while the only thing the kinect could offer to AAA games was voice commands.

the fact that the kinect's most used and most coherent feature has been voice commands, pretty much confirms that it is a piece of trash.

[SITH]

LOL http://www.youtube.com/watc...

[NightStalker33]

I personally don't think it's "anti consumer", since people know what they're buying, and the only thing they're losing is an extra $100 for something they might want.

Now, Microsofts earlier DRM and used game policies....

[Gamer666]

The simple reason that sony is not doing a Kinect like device is not about anti-consumer, it is simply about cost. If they could do it for free they would've included it. No fanboy can come up with a reasonable argument on that.

Simply putting a high tech camera/mic on a console is not anti-consumer. In fact, it is pro-consumer because it adds more functionality that broadens gaming to non-gamers and helps with media functionality. That is not at all anti-consumer.

MS is simply offering a different package then sony. Nobody has to buy a PS4 or X1. So if you don't like the idea of paying $100 for a camera/mic system, buy a PS4, if you like the idea buy an X1...

I will get both, but myself and my family will play more X1 then PS4... This is because X1 is family friendly with the camera/mic... PS4 is only friendly to gamers. There are absolutely no family friendly game titles announced on PS4 that you cannot get on X1... And X1 does cross platform family games (such as Just Dance) better than PS4. Then, it has games like Disney Fantasia and Kinect Sports Rivals which are big leaps forward for Kinect.

The only reason that Sony is calling this anti-consumer is because they have nothing that can compete with it. Their current camera/move combo is brutally horrible in comparison with Kinect functionality and Sony knows it.

[tiffac008]

Sensationalist title not once was there a mentioned of "Anti-Consumer"

Anti-Consumer and Consumer Choice are two different things.

I suggest everyone to read through the article and not only look at the title because the title was clearly made for hits by taking everything out of context.

[Antwan3k]

but forced Blu-ray on the PS3 was pro-consumer?..

people have short memories...

[Gamer666]

Really this is BS...

Last gen Sony put Blu-ray, hard drive, and cell processor in every PS3 sold.

One could argue that all three were anti-consumer... Blu-ray was not yet a worldwide standard so why was it so important? X360 shipped without a HDD and many users were fine with that, and the cell processor abnormally raised the price of the PS3.

[XabiDaChosenOne]

All three of these components did nothing but improve games (cell is some what up for discussion(than again Uncharted, Last of us etc. Would not be possible without it but I digress)) We have seen many instances throughout this gen when Bluray was almost a necessity and we have seen plenty of devs praise the PS3 for having an HDD in every console. Kinects practicality does not hold a candle to any of these components and never will, stop reaching.

[Gamer666]

Kinect has innovated a new way of playing games that was previously not possible... Virtual sports, dancing, fitness, and rail shooters genres all benefit from Kinect... Also, in core games the voice recognition that Kinect provides is many times better than a standard headset/mic.

There are many other processors that can easily beat the cell and are less costly... As witnessed by Sony's move away from cell going forward...

Blu-ray... The same thing can be accomplished using compression or multiple DVD discs...

Forced HDD... If you are a casual gamer buying the Kinect games above, how would a hard drive benefit you?

(Personally, I don't use Kinect much, but I understand its appeal...)

[XabiDaChosenOne]

"Kinect has innovated a new way" There is not one thing you listed that Kinect "innovated" on. I'm mean seriously rail shooters? How in the he'll do rail shooters benefit from a laggy input device? The rest of your list was made mainstream on the Wii. Ever heard of Wii fitness and Wii sports? These came out WAY before the Kinect.

"There are many other processors that can easily beat the cell"
On which competing console? The 360 or the Wii? I'll wait..

"Blu-ray... The same thing can be accomplished using compression or multiple DVD discs... "
Yup, who needs Blu ray when you can get crappy alternatives. Actually Compression and DVDs make Bluray so irrelevant that both Nintendo and Microsoft decided to adopt the blu ray media format!! Oh wait....

"Forced HDD... If you are a casual gamer buying the Kinect games above, how would a hard drive benefit you? "

To download movies and tv shows and the occasional AAA budget commercial game like COD or GTA5 and it's DLC...but casuals don't do that right.

As I said, stop reaching!!