Digital Foundry vs. the Xbox One architects

Two months away from the release of the next generation consoles, many have already made up their minds about which machine offers more gaming power before a single game has been released. Compare basic graphics and memory bandwidth specs side-by-side and it looks like a wash - PlayStation 4 comprehensively bests Xbox One to such a degree that sensible discussion of the respective merits of both consoles seems impossible. They're using the same core AMD technologies, only Sony has faster memory and a much larger graphics chip. But is it really that simple?

[iamnsuperman]

I feel Microsoft has brought on the confusion themselves getting PR men to talk about technological stuff when you should get the tech guys to talk about that. Look at Sony's method. Cerny talks technical and the PR men talk PR which is for a reason. He knows what the system can do as he was the lead on building it. Microsoft should have done the same. Getting Penello in the GAF forums was a bad idea. He knowledge was shown up.

[majiebeast]

Dat balance.

[pyramidshead]

lol ikr

Balanced weak specs are still weak specs.

[NewMonday]

having weaker specs puts the XB1 at a disadvantage with 3rd party multiplatform games, MS can't leverage that like they did with the 360, but the XBone should be good enough to make interesting true exclusive 1st party games that will set the console apart, but MS will need to have a consistent investment to convince gamers not PR.

[AsimLeonheart]

lol. MS has been so desperate with PR ever since the console reveal. A company should never lie about the capabilities or features of a product. Lies always get exposed eventually and only result in shame and loss of credibility. MS is trying too hard to win the PR battle. They should accept their console's weaknesses and highlight its strengths instead of outright lying about them just to look better or equal to PS4. Even PR should be based on facts and truth.

EDIT: After reading the whole article, I think it was a detailed explanation. I feel like MS now admits that their console is weaker and that is why they continue to emphasize "balance" whenever figures come into discussion.

[devwan]

@newmonday "the XBone should be good enough to make interesting true exclusive 1st party games that will set the console apart"

This is maybe more likely if they really get an idea of where the One's strengths lie and designing their games to those strengths, but it will likely take some time to get a truly worthwhile picture of that. So instead of saying "I have a great idea and plan for a game, let's make it" it's be more "I've noticed we get decent performance if we do x, y and z and avoid doing a, b and c, let's make a game that uses lots of xyz and not much abc".

Not ideal, as most people prefer the design of games to be a truly creative process free of tech barriers, but there are a rare few that excel in the confines of hardware limitations.

So I suppose microsoft need to find themselves some of these rare-breed creative programmers.

Of course, most great games don't rely on truly cutting edge graphics and tech tricks, so the whole question is moot :)

[torchic]

@pyramidshead

exactly! like we get it we're all so so happy for you Microsoft, you have a really balanced console but it's still much weaker than PS4!

why can't they just accept that? why would they want to live their lives in such hardcore denial?

[ProjectVulcan]

It's an interesting read. What I got out of it is this: if the developer is incredibly talented and designs the game for this hardware and exploits every small trick and squeezes every design win, the gap will be smaller than you all think. But there will still be a gap.

By implication it confirms my suspicions that in reality Sony's hardware is infinitely more simple to use.

Despite them saying they are mystified why people have claimed their hardware is complex it seems ever more obvious after that article that relative to PS4s superior raw performance it is more complex to extract anything like the systems peak.

PS3 and 360 is case in point. For 95 percent of the time for 95 percent of of the developers and their budgets out there it was easier to extract as much or more performance out of 360. Only a few high budget top end devs could make PS3 sing.

Except this time round not only do you have essentially more complex hardware in Xbox one you have theoretically inferior potential performance on top, unlike PS3 V 360.

You have less, and what you do have is more complicated to exploit. Erk.

[Computersaysno]

The balance!!!

Honestly Messi hasn't got the best right foot in the world but he surely has the best left one and that still makes him one of the greats....

As long as you have it where it counts and Sony do. Where it really matters for developers like ease of use and fill rates PS4 has killer advantages

[nukeitall]

Haven't we learned anything from the past. Remember how Sony focused on bandwidth on the PS3 and decided to have split memory with a VRAM pool with superior bandwidth and general purpose RAM?

Turns out, more RAM was preferential than bandwidth and subsequently the PS3 had pretty poor performing games.

You play the same game now?

Again with the memory bandwidth and of course now also CU, but it turns out latency and CPU matters!

This goes on and on, from the PS3's memory footprint of 48MB of RAM vs Xbox 360s 32MB of RAM, yet can the Xbox 360 can support cross game and party chat to the bandwidth discussed above.

Real developers excited about games KNOW performance is the sum of it's parts, not particular parts.

That said, don't be fooled by carefully crafted numbers and look at the results, but more importantly all the power in the world doesn't make a good game.

All the power of PS Move didn't produce a single title worthy compared to Wii Sports! I had so much fun with Wii Sports, yet Sports Champion bored me to death despite PS Move technological superiority!

@vulcanproject:

"It's an interesting read. What I got out of it is this: if the developer is incredibly talented and designs the game for this hardware and exploits every small trick and squeezes every design win, the gap will be smaller than you all think."

I think that is only partially right, because MS went with a well known design pattern with a small fast cache, just like the Xbox 360 eDRAM.

This is the same team that designed the Xbox 360 that designed the Xbox One so I'm sure they designed it as an equally balanced system.

This in so many ways mirror the PS3 vs Xbox 360. More "cores" (or PPE) and more "memory bandwidth" in the PS3 didn't have the fallout we expected. PS3 certainly got similar PR back in the day.

[JokesOnYou]

Good read. I won't pretend I understand it all but it sounds like microsoft knows exactly how they want X1 to perform in relation to games. I predict when we get the final bench tests the overall performance differences will be marginal at best.

[devwan]

@nukeitall "MS went with a well known design pattern with a small fast cache, just like the Xbox 360 eDRAM. "

Did you even read the DF piece? The MS guys confirmed it's not a cache at all - it's a scratchpad - user managed memory. Any benefits of this setup require careful planning and implementation and that's all down to the programmers, it's not a cache that's just there that makes things run faster using its own hardware magic.

Anything that requires such micro-management and excessive planning to obtain decent results is going to struggle to be universally effective. There are parallels here with the ps3's non-standard hardware requiring new or different programming techniques to obtain best use of resources... the only problem here is the xbox one requires this as it attempts to gain parity with ps4, unlike the ps3's hardest pushed efforts that out-shone the 360.

Basically put, xbox one's esram is not "raw power", it's an addition to offset the system's memory bottlenecks and to be effective will require planning, forethought, skill, time, manpower... jumping through hoops. It's not simply raw power that's there for the taking with ps4.

As for the whole "balance" thing, that's very cleverly worded PR spin that's only there to reassure troubled xbox fans to keep them loyal to the brand...

@Jokes " I won't pretend I understand it all but it sounds like microsoft knows exactly how they want X1 to perform in relation to games. I predict when we get the final bench tests the overall performance differences will be marginal at best."

See - it worked. It's there to hoodwink those who don't know better and reassure them that MKB - Microsoft Knows Best.

"In terms of getting the best possible combination of performance, memory size, power, the GDDR5 takes you into a little bit of an uncomfortable place." - complete damage control technosloblock, Panello couldn't have said it better himself. Really unworthy of a supposed "Technical Fellow".

[nypifisel]

You got a point. "Balance", is just a buzzword. I can't believe DF would be so uncritical. Matte of the fact still stands, the Xbox One will never preform as good as the PS4 and it's actually all down to raw power, the GPU in the PS4 is just that much better in pretty much every aspect (so is the RAM, eSRAM is a cop out to make manufacturing cheaper, nothing else).

[gaffyh]

Talk in confusing technical jargon so that nobody understands anything, so you can say "MS knows what they are talking about."

Massive damage control, no real new information, repeating the same thing trying to get people to believe it.

[Death]

Are we actually talking a few frames a second as being the 50% increase in power the PS4 has?

Here is my question to all those that believe the PS4 is more powerfull. What is the benefit going to be of all this power? Will the games look better, have more textures, faster frame rate, or a higher resolution? What do you think you will see to justify the arguement?

We had a "weak" Xbox 360 slug it out with the super-computer like PS3 and it's Cell processor along with it's massive Blu-ray drive. GTAV just released with the biggest budget in gaming to date. I'm pretty sure the PS3 version got a very slight edge up on the Xbox 360 version but if you don't run them side by side you might not know which is which. Is this difference we can expect next gen?

[thechosenone]

Gaf breaks down the PR spin
http://www.neogaf.com/forum...

[tokugawa]

good read

once devs (if they dont aready) have the tools to use every piece of silicon correctly, then they should be able to make some stunning looking games.

@ fanboys. seeing as the ps4 is massively more powerful right? we should see the difference in november yes??

i cant wait to get both myself

edit gaf breaks down the spin rofl..

99% of gaf know f'kall just like here. and just like here there is a huge bias. the difference is only the quality of the mods. it is the fear of the banhammer that keeps gaf readable

b3d would be a better place for a breakdown.

[LonChaneyTV]

I agree specs do matter, I upgraded from a ps4 to two Nvidia 770s, not bothering with such petty technology again. Agni's philosophy tech demo here i come!!

[Haules]

HAHA DF are using a HD7850 card as a reference to Xbone GPU.

Xbone uses a HD7790 which is way slower than the HD7850!

What a useless article.

[DigitalRaptor]

@ JokesOnYou

It's nice to stay positive about your purchases, but let's face it, decisions are made for a reason, and wishful thinking is not the answer. Facts are: http://www.computerandvideo...

@ Tokugawa

Since when have launch titles ever been the judge of anything? I would've thought by now that you Xbox fans would've learned to look ahead and judge the long-term, but nah. Nothing's changed.

[tokugawa]

digitalraptor

normally i would agree. but, seeing as everyone keeps talking about 50% more power, ease of use, better ram and ofcourse the massive power difference. i think that it is fair to assume that when all that is combined, the difference should been seen out of the gate no??

i think more like it is the droids like yourself that are already preparing the excuses.

[dantesparda]

@tokugawa

So why is he a droid and you not a bot then? Cuz it seems that all MS fanboys think that only Sony fanboys are "fanboys" and "they" (MS fanboys)are not. The fact is the PS4 is more powerful, period end of discussion. The problem is the MS fanboys cant accept that so they keep coming up with every excuse in the book to try and deny that it, just like how the WiiU fanboys kept trying to deny that the the WiiU is just a current gen system.

You're not going to see the big "50%" difference at launch, especially from 3rd parties, cuz of parity. Now all you MS fanboy need to stop calling the Sony fanboys, fanboys, cuz you's are fanboys too.

Personally I go with whoever has the best system, and so far thats looking like PS4 to me. I bought the 360 in 2005 and jumped ship in 2008 when they started abandoning the hardcore. But honestly, neither system is looking that great technically

[Ju]

See, it's very simple:

"You can use the Move Engines to move these things asynchronously in concert with the GPU so the GPU isn't spending any time on the move. You've got the DMA engine doing it. Now the GPU can go on and immediately work on the next render target rather than simply move bits around"

...

unless you have a unified memory pool allocating the full bandwidth where switching render targets is setting up a different memory address. No memory move needed at all.

Now, even in layman's terms it should be plain obvious that

a) not moving data is infinite faster than moving data and
b) it is simpler to handle and
c) does not require any power at all (re: power savings using fixed function HW).

This is one example. We would have built something like this 30 years ago (actually, if I think back, that's what the Amiga did when PCs had b/w "graphics").

But today, there is no benefit to such a thing.

[pixelsword]

In time the games will tell the tale.

It seems like the architectural styles of Microsoft and Sony has switched in terms of ram, but if the cpus aren't designed the same, it may have no consequence.

I wonder why Ryse is not 1080p although that may be just a lack of experience on the console; if that's not the case, then Crytek is being honest and turn 10 is not. I'm thinking that's why Ryse isn't 1080p, and it casts doubt on Forza's specs not being upscaled. I don't think that's the case.

In time the games will tell the tale.

[kevnb]

Sonys method is, "dat ram!" Xbox one is a cluster you know what.

[vigilante_man]

Have got to say that was an interesting read (a bit technical in parts). They should of had this conversation months ago. Not once did they try and say that the XB1 is as powerful as the PS4, just that they balanced their system to meet their multi-purpose needs.

In reality you would expect a pure gaming console that can do social media and TV stuff should be more powerful than a system built for gaming, social media and TV at its core.

Lets praise the honesty of the interview.

Just one thing confuses me: They went for 218 ESRam. Why not higher? I remember Mr Cerny discussed Sony having ESRam of 1,000 but decided to go for the more simple instant raw power. He added that it would take a good few years to unlock the true potential of the 1,000 ESRam but wanted developers to hit the ground running on PS4.

So if Mr Cerny is correct it will take a few years before XB1 starts to make full use of that ESRam and even then they lose out on GPU power. If you are going to go with ESRam go for big numbers in speed like 500 or 1,000 to make the trade-off worth it.

[Nekroo91]

@vigilante_man your messing everything up, your mixing esram speend with memory size. cerny said that the 8gb of gddram+ edram would achieve 1000gb/s but that would make the console complicated to work with and devs dont want to waste time with that

[Elzer]

Look at apples iPhone 5s today. Its A7 chip architecture is heavily customized that it blows the rest of its competition away. On paper it lacks the raw power. Smartphones today tackle performance based on more ram and more cores. But why is it that the iPhone 5s dual-core and 1gb ram "specs on paper" outshines in most tested benchmarks compared to smartphones with 2gb ram and quad-core processors?
It seems to me that Sony has brainwash most uneducated gamers into thinking that utilization, optimization, and efficiency don't exist...

[kevnb]

@elzer
truth is most people don't know much about specs and are really easily mislead. apple doesnt try to impress people with big numbers, its always been about selling the experience.

[Ju]

Well, if it'll take XB devs years to unlock the ESRAM than it's a little too late. The XBone will need that ESRAM to deliver. It will need to max it if it wants to match the PS4 - from day one.

[Parapraxis]

"truth is most people don't know much about specs"
Well, you sure as shit don't.

[gaelic_laoch]

"Microsoft should have done the same. Getting Penello in the GAF forums was a bad idea."

May as well of sent a chimp in a lab coat out to explain the inner working of the XboNe!

[nukeitall]

The difference is MS has done a lot of tweaks to figure out how to balance their system. How do you explain that to the masses that has the slightest idea of technology beyond use?

It's like a race circuit, more horsepower doesn't mean faster lap times if the circuit has many turns and twists.

Unfortunately the masses has been educated by one side that pure numbers they CAN understand is how it should be measured instead of real engineers tasked with designing said system.

Remember how Intel focused on the Gigahertz and AMD beat them in performance?

At some point people thought more Hertz would yield more performance too!

[n4rc]

Yup... Its marketing 101

Its the people that jump all over the $199 50mp cameras then later wondering why their friends $400 20mp camera destroys it in every aspect..

Using the racing analogy... Power is important.. But tires, weight distribution etc can be seen as bottlenecks that hurt the cars overall performance...

Its why a 200hp lotus elise will completely spank cars with twice the power on a track... Balance is key

My point isnt that x1 will be faster.. My point is people that look at a few specs and think bigger numbers means a better product are uninformed.

[Angeljuice]

@N4rc
Sony just built a 300hp Lotus Elise, that's the problem with your metaphor.

[WeaseL]

Why people try to compare it to cars is beyond me the price between cars is thousands of dollars not $100

[XabiDaChosenOne]

@n4rc " .. Power is important.. But tires, weight distribution etc can be seen as bottlenecks that hurt the cars overall performance... " This statement only proves how much more efficient the PS4 is. Not only does the PS4 has better drivers and a unified archtect but it is also bottleneck free. The same cannot be said about the Xbox one hardware. Prime example: the ESRAM

@nuketall
Your problem is is that you are clinging on to some fantasy that within the Xbox ones complex architecture that there is some treasure chest of power that will exceed the processing power in the PS4. News flash, there isn't. The Xbox one is making the same mistake as the PS3, except unlike the PS3 which was superior to the Xbox360 when programmed for to it's strengths (Uncharted 2,3, The Last of Us etc.) When a developer eventually "masters" the Xbox ones architecture it will only minimize the gap between the consoles a little bit, not close it. And than you have to think about devs on the PS4 side is only going to get better with the hardware as well so essential a handful of devs mastering the Xbox one architecture will only keep the gap from being bigger than it already is.
This is only one of the reasons why the PS4 will obliterate the Xbox one.

[sAVAge_bEaST]

Nukeitall -"The difference is MS has done a lot of tweaks to figure out how to balance their system."

See the problem with that statement, is that Microsoft currently has Crap drivers, (windows OS has always had crap drivers,. That is why Mac's are so popular, for certain tasks, such as Midi control , and Graphics,.. (all graphic artist's use Adobe on Mac's) Sony is way ahead , in fact they built their system to be more efficient, and use better drivers.

[RevXM]

True that you cannot rely on Hz alone, but these two machines are pretty similar.
Not that we know the Hz of the Ps4 for sure, but they both use most of the same core AMD technologies only Ps4 have better numbers and the better RAM setup on paper and probably different secondary chips too handle background tasks but the secondary chips doesnt really play that big of a role when it comes to games I suppose.

Suppose angeljuice is on to something X1 is a lotus elise and PS4 is a somewhat modified lotus elise with a forced induction system would seem like a fair comparison to me.

[MysticStrummer]

"It's like a race circuit, more horsepower doesn't mean faster lap times if the circuit has many turns and twists."

That's bad for MS then, because they not only have weaker hardware in the One, but they also made programming for it more convoluted. PS4 has stronger hardware and is easier to program (fewer twists and turns).

[Parapraxis]

Well then nukeitall, since you seem to be so "knowledgeable" on the topic, maybe you can explain how the xbox one will outdo the ps4, given the specs available, and the overwhelming agreement in the dev community that the ps4 will outdo the xbox one in every regard.
Of course you will not have a specific reply, if any, to my post, because you wouldn't even know where to start.
Tales from your ass are running thin.

[MrZweistein]

Agree.

[otherZinc]

It sure is funny how you guys never read important articles.

I've said before, "you can't use "Basic Math" when analyzing power of the XBOX ONE".

Forza 5 is running at 1080p "native" @ 60fps! There are ZERO PS4 games accomplishing this.

People interview Mark Cerny all the time. When is someone going to ask him: why are there no 1080p "native" 60fps games at launch!

It should be easy to accomplish, as Killzone:SF doesn't have 2-4four player Campaign Co-op! And, Drive Club always show ghost cars as the AI. Those things are Memory eaters, so, at least they can make those 2 SONY exclusives run 1080p "native" @ 60fps...

[iamnsuperman]

This is the problem with your statement. You completely ignore what developers think is more important. It is all about the developers and what they think is the most important. It isn't so much about the systems themselves. A lot of the launch game have much more going on behind the scenes.

A lot of developers (this and next generation) see 720p as fine and 30fps a minimal because they can then pump resoruces into other areas to improve the overal experience. Using your Forza example they have had to compensate for that. There isn't even night or all weather driving in the game. Forza uses "baked lighting" while its competitor doesn't. But that is because that developer thought 1080p 60fps was more important while another developer (its competitor) thought lighting was more important (other things as well)

You can't completely ignore what the developer thinks is important. There is so much more going on than just frame rates and resolution. This generation coming is going to be about who can push the lighting and physics (all that kind of gameplay improvements) more than who can get 1080p at 60fps because of the notion that 720p at 30fps is fine in a lot of developers eyes

[MysticStrummer]

Once again, Forza gets a pass for doing the same thing CoD gets slammed for, omitting things in the name of resolution and frames per second. Humans are funny.

[static5245]

Your statement is just wrong all over. Killzone:SF has confirmed 1080p 60fps on multiplayer. Planetside 2 will be running like its on max settings on PC. FF XIV confirmed 1080p 60 fps. I'm not a fanboy. I don't even own a PS3. But a simple search on google you can find these facts.

[Ju]

Resogun runs 1080@60fps and only uses 2 cores (or so). Most of the game runs on compute (gpu) - incl. it's mighty impressive physics system.

And, well, and so does Ridge Racer (I mean...a racing game running 1080@60fps on PS3)

On the other hand, which other XBone game actually runs 1080p (I mean native) besides Forza?

[dantesparda]

KZ MP mode = 1080/60
KZ SP mode =1080/30 (maybe higher framerate)
DC 1080/30 (aiming for 60)
Resogun 1080/60
AC4 MP mode = 1080/60
and im sure Im missing a few

Whereas X1
Forza 5 1080/60
Killer Instinct 720/60
Ryse 900/30
Dead Rising 3 Dynamic Res@30fps

[Parapraxis]

"Forza 5 is running at 1080p "native" @ 60fps"
...yeah, lets see if that actually pans out by launch.

protip, the TGS showing of F5 left a lot to be desired.

[abusador]

lol hahahahaha u need to recheck ur info about no games on ps4 being 1080p native and 60fps lol and a racer doing it on next gen is not a big feat as it has already been done last gen with racers that do more than Forza 5 :) By the way did you hear that Forza at TGS didnt look as good as before? lol oh myyyyy

Ryse dropping to 900p with framerate issues
Dead Rising being like 720p and just reaching 30fps
Titan fall is like 720 p at maybe 60fps but it should have been 1080p rez/60fps being its only a mp game and Kz Sf mp is confirmed 60fps/1080p
doesnt seem like apowerful console to me

Meanwhile in sony world you have Driveclub at 1080p maybe/maybe not 30/60 fps with dynamic goodness, night/day, weather effects coming, etccccc

Kz Sf is 1080p/60fps mp
Infamous looks like the best next gen looking game!
Resogun is 1080p/60fps

Well you get my point :)

[THEDON82z1]

After reading this article it just seems to me that M$ did all the costume designing in there tech on Xbone,just to end up making there games perform somewhat closer to PS4 games..Truth be told unless its 1st party game..Developers do not what to go through all these move engines and sh@t just to get marginally better performance which in the end still wont surpass PS4 performance(especially after they really come to grips with its architecture and Sony costume designs).This is crazy if M$ was going to take this route they should have gave developers a real reason to invest resources in figuring out the tech in Xbone, not just to get closer to PS4 performance. 2 OR 3 years down the road we going to see that fake ass "BALANCE" philosophy start showing real cracks in Xbone!!!!

[otherZinc]

@iamnsuperman

Forza 5 doesn't use Baked lighting!

Forza 5 use "Dynamic Range Lighting"!

Night racing isn't difficult at all as everything is hidden in darkness.

To have AI Cars with Damage on the track, is FAR More taxing on RAM than night racing:so where are the AI Cars in Drive Club? They only show ghost cars...

Turn 10 has added more in Forza 5 than any racer to date.

[corvusmd]

I agree...if you mean by "brought it on themselves", they told the facts to little kids that have no clue what they are talking about, but see one number is bigger than another and assume that means it's better. The problem here isn't really MS telling you how the XB1 works, it's been pretty consistent since the beginning in that regard. There have been tweeks here and there to architecture, but that happens in production phase, and in this case have only been for the better. Games running on both systems look amazing, and anyone saying that games on PS4 look ANY % better clearly haven't been paying attention. Take a step back and look at the bigger picture. If PS4's major advantage is having a more powerful and easy GPU to work with, then why aren't we seeing that HUGE advantage on day one? The whole theory behind PS4's system is putting all that workload on a powerful GPU will make it streamlined and easy to work for (I know cerny said we will see the benefits 3-4 years later, but that's both systems). If PS4's GPU is that much more powerful and easy to work with, the biggest gap should be today...this GPU isn't new to the industry, developers are very familiar with it, that's how we knew it's specs so fast. Not being able to tell graphical differences on day one does not bode well for PS4 being a monster compared to XB1.

Both systems look great, stick to what games you like and what sort of online experience you want. PS fans (myself included) made this same exact mistake last gen of saying that PS was much more powerful, and games still look better on XB360 most of the time.

[beerzombie]

Best answer today; For me its Forza and Halo. I like them both along with the controller. My friends that I really know all play on live also. That's what this is all about the games and the friends not some high end specs. even though higher specs would be awesome nothing changes for me. Sony fans just get ready for the big lie coming.

[triforce79]

Benchmarks and exclusives are what prove a consoles capability's not spec numbers,i think wiiu with its edram design basically a memory heavy design will outperform xbox1 and come really close to ps4 in raw graphics just like Shinen said about how they don't see ps4 pumping out much better graphics than wiiu.....

Xbox1 has AMD gpu

PS4 has a 1.8 terraflop gpu

WiiU has a custom E6760 gpgpu with edram on board,remember microsoft saying if they used edram they would have much more power ie bandwidth RAM but it's harder to use...

[sonarus]

PS4 is the more powerful console. All this just reads like a whole bunch of damage control.

Honestly there is nothing wrong with that if microsoft is willing to dig deep and develop some compelling games that will be fully exclusive. Titanfall is a start but we will see how exclusive that is. Halo 5 or Halo 6 is just more of the same ol same ol.

[Gekko36]

@All

OK, I've just read the whole article and what I've gleaned from this is 3 primary factors.

1. ESRAM is an evolution of eDRAM which means any developer that worked on the 360 will find working on this simple too.

So no difficulty getting to grips with the new architecture.

Cool!

2. The design of the system and integration of ESRAM will allow developers to use this very high speed process, quicker than GDDR5. Again, Cool!

3. Looks like the enormous void between both systems touted around on N4G isn't as big as they thought and again seems to be an apples and oranges situation again.

So shall I buy an XBOX One?... You bet you hairy arse I will!

[Ipunchbabiesforfun]

You apparently can't read than...

[mkis007]

Actually no... With the GDDR5 memory they just put it on there, they have to program for the 32mb esram when doing the same thing on xbox1

[SegaSaturn669]

Andrew Goosen is saying: multiplats will look as good as ps4!

So, he's playing catch-up rather than making it better. Ominous sign.

[UncleGermrod]

I don't agree with that. They never really said the xbox one has more power than ps4, and the only direct comparison they made is when he says that sony also touted the importance of balance. This whole article did nothing more than give better insight to the xbox one hardware and back up previous statements about the gap not being as large. So i think the whole point was to shed some light as to why MS think the xbox one can hold its own..they never said it would exceed. But in the end it will not be like ps2 vs xbox1 ...id say typically at best the ps4 version could have some crisper looking bushes and trees in the background and maybe play 10-12 frames/sec above xbox one. So all the fanboys can sit in front of their computers with their pants down and watch side by side comparisons which mean nothing to either side...have fun with that

[imt558]

Another PR bullshit in this article????

[yewles1]

*grabs popcorn* Consider me an... Observation Fellow.

MWUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

[Ohlmay]

First the "Cloud" and now it's "Balance". I'll hold judgement until I see Halo 5, that'll be the game that will push the Xbox One to it's limits.

[CRAIG667]

I think 343 are a very capable dev team but we are not going to see anything push next gen consoles within 12 months of release. I look forward to seeing how halo looks but it will not be any kind of benchmark for the x1, even infamous ss will look dated at some point down the line...

[Gekko36]

@Ohlmay

Bit presumptuous don't you think? You have seen any games let alone played them on a production machine.

[LordDhampire]

no halo has ever pushed limits, so I'd wait for a different game

[Walker]

GDDR5, so good it's uncomfortable.

[cyhm3112]

NES is even more balanced, I love that console.

[Einhert]

Uh oh, two of the most passionate topics on N4G, consoles and their respective performance.

*Insert obligatory popcorn comment here*

[fOrlOnhOpe57]

Better specs is one thing but to know what youre buying into, instead of trying to cut through totally unnecassary crap is something else.

[Kayant]

"Just like our friends we're based on the Sea Islands family"

So both the PS4 and XB1 use rebranded OEM HD7000 parts it seems ---> http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...

Lmaooo I like how misterx now says the 27th doesn't matter now ---> http://misterxmedia.livejou...

My gosh you guys should read the comments they're unbelievable

Off to neogaf for more drama...

[pyramidshead]

I've seen a pattern in the misterx fake blog and his fake insider with all of the fake user accounts, all made by the same guy(they all type the exact same way lol). Whenever something is about to happen, let's say like hot chips symposium and this end of September NDA, there is always a heavily damage controlled blog post right before almost as if he knows he's wrong.

As well as having 0% accuracy in his wet dreams about the XB1 we can actually see a time line forming of past damage control milestones, and most MS fanboys swear by it:

Wait until May reveal
Wait until E3
Wait until Gamescom
Wait until Hot Chips Symposium
Wait until *minor events that involve the consoles*
Wait until TGS
Wait until September 30th NDA lift

And NOW all of a sudden, what do we read? Oh shit, that NDA won't reveal anything and now MS are apparently hiding the secret sauce for a full year so the newest entry is:

"Wait until 1 or 2nd year XB1 games" I mean LOL. How absolutely convenient.

Gold stuff on the blog, if anyone wants a decent laugh please give that guy some hits.

[MasterCornholio]

" Well, in that case Xbox One will be 1.31Tf console in people minds and sales will be low."

Wow this guy is in extreme denial. I cant believe he actually dedicates a lot of his time to fabricating all sorts of BS. The main reason why sales will be low (if true) is not because of the XBOX One having a 1.3 Teraflop GPU its because of all the confusion that Microsoft has caused around their product.

[Gekko36]

@MasterCornholio

Didn't realise I was in the presence of either Nostradamus or Doctor Who.

Whats next weeks Euromillions numbers, gotta beat the french somehow.

Tell me Tell me oh great and powerful OZ

[Sarobi]

Hahahahaha... that guy is something else.

[ABeastNamedTariq]

"Misterx: Well, in that case Xbox One will be 1.31Tf console in people minds and sales will be low. Games will not make the justice because SDF will crush the media with brainwash and lie articles. If only we will see this level of GFX on Xbox One as in this video(and developers are ready for this level of GFX on PCs and Xbox One but weak PS4 will hold multiplatform back). That for sure will make games do the justice and that could prove Xbox One power without showing specs. But Japan companies and Sony 1st party will draw even better CGIs renders and will present them like real-time gameplay. So no...if MS wants to stop the PR dissaster and sell some Xbox Ones they should amaze people with specs. All other methods will not work."

How was he believed in the first place. 0_o Look at this f***ery.

[Flutterby]

Lmao mrx aka elite24gamer , the guy is a complete joke

[PrimeGrime]

Do people believe me now that this person is messaging everyone about this crap? God I can't stand Elite24gamer.

I even made a blog about him here, that quote, was from him, saying the Xbox One could max at 4.26 teraflops.. and then when I flat out proved he is making up bullshit. He completely changes everything he said, then tries to tell me the Xbox One can achieve 2.37 teraflops.. Lol.

This..

"grafix processer 1 = 1.95 tflops = orange square( Likely 2 DPUs working together with a cpu core or two to manage 1 probably for physics 1 for straight grafix)

Graffix processer 2 = gpgpu = 1.31 tflops = pink square (jag cores working with 12 cus for gpgpu in main soc)

Graffix processer 3 = 1 tflop= yellow square (Likely 2 more DPUs(dedicated Processing Units) working together, one for 1 rendering 1 for shading, also working with some cpu for management)"

Lol when this is what the diagram actually says.

https://semiaccurate.com/as...

... Then this..

"The fact is, from the HOTCHIPS presentation, is that the Xbox one GPU is very complex. It has the core GPU & two additional custom blocks built on the same die.

1.3tflop block is the gpgpu. Not the whole gpu as diagramed at HOTCIPS.

GPGPU calculations= textures/particles/shading. 360 had unified shader arch. its was the first prototype gpgpu.

X1 geometry engine block is 1.7billion poly/s. Polys dont have flops now?? not true. 1.7bp/s= 0.97tflops...Fact...GOOGLE IT!

1.3tflop GPGPU + 0.97tflop geometry engine= 2.37tflops for X1 gpu."

Probably is MisterX since that guy can't seem to make up his mind either. That guys blog is beyond any level of stupidity I could ever try to attempt to comprehend. He takes the most random shit and tries to act like as if it has some secret meaning but literally has nothing to back up his claims other than some "insider"..

He even makes up quotes, saying Sony said them but when you search for these quotes.. Lol all that comes up is his blog.

Cool lying is easy. My dad is Bill Gates and I know Steve Ballmer personally, I know for a fact the Xbox One is more powerful cause I am at Microsoft HQ daily, I also have tons of insiders to back up my claims but I cannot disclose their names or any information about this until the 30th. /s

[Nekroo91]

i have no doubt that xbox can balance that raw power gap between x1 and ps4 but in the end devs will use the extra power that sony gave them..

[gaelic_laoch]

I honestly wonder what went through the heads of the Hardware Devs up at M$ BS HQ!

If the tools were available to a company that is neck deep in the computing industry to produce a well balanced powerful console why has the xbone been overpowered by SONY's PS4?

Only conclusion I can come to is they wanted to produce the most cost effective product to maximize profits from the get go!

[MazzingerZ]

They took for granted gamers when designing the X1, they thought:

x360 gamers already pay today to play online without any extra benefit that cross-game chat, game invites...even during first xbox did they pay for it without any extra feature than going online..they are loyal

They pay for expensive HDD, battery packs, they buy a new console when their old RROD, they believe us every year about great exclusives to be announced at E3 during the last four years and forget fast that we lied

so hey, give them better graphics and they will be happy and blindly purchase our console, create simple HW architecture that delivers nice next gen games but at the same time doesn't cost much, the downside is that games won't be dramatically better during the coming years but who cares, the XBOX brand is strong and people will purchase it anyway, we will make profit regardless

we don't care about our reputation in the gaming industry, 3rd party want money so they will release their games on our platform even if they dislike us, business as usual, we will make money and our gamers customers care more about us making money than they getting great exclusive gaming experiences like the others get at the competition(SONY, Nintendo)...in our case they get our console so we can make money and sales figures look good...they always celebrate that while the others get games.

[gaelic_laoch]

Very well put!

I come on here daily and I do trash talk the xbone alot,something I honestly hand on heart would rather not do had M$ not crouched down crapped out a knock off second rate console with so many strings attacked it could have been made by Jim Henson! I am also under no illusion that SONY are the good guys in the console business, they are just a little more clever knowing that customers want AAA HW without the BS.

M$ got sooooo lucky current gen with the 360 and they should have built on their strengths using the loyalty of their customer base. Instead their entire business model for next gen was based around locking down and cornering off the console market then charging top drawer bucks for features that should be taken for granted as free (and using basic features like NETFLIX etc SHOULD be free!)

The worst thing that has come out of all this is the amount of gamers blindly apologizing on behalf of M$! It shocking really! If SONY pulls the same crap I will be on them like a nasty rash also!

[DoubleM70]

Oh yes the object is to make money. Ask Sony have they been raking in the profits lately.

[WeAreLegion]

One of the production teams was headed by a man who both loves video games and has an IQ of 184.

[NeloAnjelo]

Cloud + Balance = Weak Sauce

[Statix]

To summarize this article:

Richard Leadbetter (who has shown in the past a favoritism for Xbox) started sweating upon hearing the reports that ACTUAL DEVELOPERS (whom Leadbetter merely chooses to call "unnamed sources;" perhaps to make them sound more dubious than otherwise) are experiencing a ~50% performance advantage on the PS4 over the Xbone. Thus, in his desperate haste, he immediately got in contact with the architects of Xbox to get their damage-control explanations/excuses in effort to minimize the significance of the aforementioned developer reports.

Leadbetter keeps quoting his article of the "only 24% benchmark advantage" of the PS4, but that article has already been shown to be false and incredibly flawed by people who aren't pro-Xbox or biased (e.g.: http://www.neogaf.com/forum... ). Not to mention contradicted by actual developer sources, using actual console dev hardware, who say the PS4 possesses ~50% real-world advantage.

Btw, Adrian Chmielarz (former People Can Fly developer) is NOT an anonymous source, and he also corroborates the ~50% PS4 advantage, saying that "all the AAA next-gen developers" he's talked to has said the PS4 holds said advantage.

So keep swimming against the tide, Mr. Leadbetter, whilst your credibility continues to erode.

[NeloAnjelo]

Great little write up there.

[Software_Lover]

Again,

I, personally don't care about power. I mean its not like we're talking about wii-u vs ps4 specs here. The subtle differences between the games are just for pissing contests for the fan boys.

Edit: games matter. Always have, always will. Even this Gen. I'm not trying to downplay the importance of system power, but we won't know a damn thing until we get our hands on the games. Even then, becoming immersed in your favorite game, you forget about specs and just enjoy what you're playing. Specs come into play when you turn off your game and get on the internet.

Both consoles are using the same apu, just customized differently. I doubt that we see game breaking code on either console. It would have to affect both

Both consoles are close enough that it will not make a big difference. When the consoles start to release their system sellers specs won't matter. Halo will sell consoles. GTAVI will sell consoles. Naughty Dog will sell consoles. Hell, even Mario will sell consoles if Nintendo doesn't screw it up

[n4rc]

I don't think the games only is the right way IMO either

For all the cool extras like snapping Skype or using kinect etc.. Is that worth a few fps to the user? For lots of people it will be..

I fully expect the ps4 to have some unreal visuals and games... And may indeed have a few fps over thr x1 in multiplats.. But thosr extra features are why.. X1 has tons of power, they chose to utilize it in a different way by offering more options to the user

Sheer performance is what pcs are for..

[snp]

Respect your opinion but i disagree. All those 'cool extras' are things i'll happily do on my PC, or through pre-existing media boxes.

I want my console to have sheer performance. In my world 'games' are what consoles are for.

[2cents]

Wow, I've got a headache after reading all that! Sound like they fully believe and understand what and why they have built and speced the Xbox the way they have.

Come on 22nd Nov!

[WeAreLegion]

This is why Microsoft thinks they can just do whatever they want and they'll get our money.

[2cents]

?

Define "this"

Unless your reply was meant for someone else, I dont understand your comment.

[N4realGMRZ]

So the XB1 is a far more efficient machine, Makes sense since the games seem to look and run better. I love all the uneducated comments about PR after the tech team shamed every wannabe in this forum....the "proofs in the pudding" as they say and right now MS's pudding looks better...no argument there!

[Nekroo91]

more effecient?! so why cant ryse play at 1080p instead of 900 to reach 30 fps.... i dont call that efficient

[n4rc]

Because of the scale and detail of the game?

Do you understand how games are designed? 1080 isn't a cap or standard that must be met...

It can be a goal.. So they will design the game accordingly, keeping the resolution and frame rate in mind...

But if you have a vision for your game that exceeds what's possible for 1080p and a acceptable frame rate.. Then you lower the res or change your vision...

You can do either... Cod isn't even HD (under 720) and most people don't even know or care about it...why is it suddenly so important now?

[RytGear]

Exactly, after all the bullshit Xbone fans shitting all over Driveclub only being 30fps.
Its better than having to make a 720p FIGHTING GAME to be able to reach 60fp.

Another thing people forget is that just because its balanced doesnt mean its more powerful, all it means is that all the weak components can run the same.

[joefrost00]

You do know rise has parts were you play out hundred men battles
KZ multiplayer only is 1080p 60fps
And its a first person shooter which is the easiest genre to get graphical performance from
Even the order which dont come out for a year is native 800p look it up and I doubt it has 100 man battles
Ryse is epic in scale kinda like when you compare ninja gaiden, DMC and God of War
God of War never was able to lock in 60fps because it was big in scale and it was an exclusive
But from what I seen and played as a whole X1 are looking and performing better

[N4realGMRZ]

I don't know to be honest, but lets ask a far more sensible question....Why can't DriveClub run at 1080P @ 60FPS like Forza 5 ? I call Forza Far more efficient that Driveclub.... makes sense? :)

[BG11579]

There is worst, apart from the demo at E3, that was running in PC, all of the following videos never had more than 5 characters at the same time on the screen...

Sometimes, there are thing more important than frame/rate and resolution.

[Angeljuice]

No it isn't more balanced at all (that's just the latest spin). Read my comment below.

[joeorc]

@N4realGMRZ

".the "proofs in the pudding" as they say and right now MS's pudding looks better...no argument there!"

that is called an opinion, one of which i do not agree with..

and this:

"no argument there!"

So you are Agreeing with yourself?

LOL

[nerdeu]

Clear difference between 900p and 1080p. Also, throughout the different test, the PS4 gets all from 4 to 16 fps more than the X1. It averages about 10 fps difference between the consoles.

[flunkers]

Which tests are these? When have both consoles been tested side by side with the same software?

[Sevir]

The Tests Ran By Eurogamer on Graphics Chips that replicate a ballpark approximation of the next gen consoles...

The things like 50% more sharers, 50% more CUz and 50% more processing thread, and a more powerful GPU... The benchmark tests showed proved that having all this gave an overall framerate difference of 10-15 frames... So all this actually states that Sony's Console is simply more powerful which has been the point.

This entire interview was honest, I applaud MS to get there technical experts and designers to spill the beans, but they pretty much confirmed that they didn't go for raw power to match the PS4, they went with a cost effective design that will give them decent performance across the board for all of the console's features. They say balanced but it's a response to dodge the already known fact that while the Xbox one is very much balanced and capable, it's weaker than the PS4 and by a 30-40% margin which will show.

[static5245]

This is the video I think he is speaking of.

http://youtu.be/G6VLvKHAeXQ

[flunkers]

Appretiate what your saying but I'll wait for actual hardware tests rarther than assumptions. I agree the GPU is stronger in the ps4 but thats only one part of the story

[Angeljuice]

The trouble is the setup is too complex in an effort to play catch-up. They talk about their 15 processors, but have also said that to improve yields, any of those processors can be redundant and the workload is taken up by the CPU.

This can therefore mean that in any given Xbox One, there could be several non-working processors which kind of screws the whole balance theme. How many Xboxes will run to their full design potential (if any)? What percentage will have several processors crippled at once? Will you have different framerates etc from one machine to the next dependant on how 'lucky' you were with your purchase?

They also make a point of saying that the RAM is no more difficult than the Xbox 360 to program for, however this is a moot point as PS4's is now a lot easier than the X360's ever was. There are some clever 'workarounds' going on in the box, but if they had approached the system in a different way (ala PS4) these complexities would not be necessary in the first place.

[Deltaohio]

The reason for the non functioning processors is for redundancy. Something I haven't heard Sony say anything about. Without arguing performance between the two I would say the X1 would be more reliable and probably have less units turning into bricks. There are vents galor. Their chip is huge to disparate heat better and they even have cores for redundancy. The RROD lesson was a bitch.
When I see the playstation I see one vent in the back. And when you take into consideration the "50%" increase in power you have to wonder how well it's gonna stay cool.

Also they did go the same route as Sony. They just chose dif RAM. The eSRAM is an extra piece of the system that can be easily used by those who developed on the 360.

It would be like us having a similar car. Yours is faster. Similar engine except I have a turbo. Is yours more easy to tune? Yes. But to someone who works on cars with turbos it's not a big deal and you can get certain boosts in performance then a similar engine without a turbo. That doesn't mean mine is always better but the difficulty in tuning is relative.

[Angeljuice]

They said themselves that allowing for redundancymeant they could massively improve yields. This can only mean that a lot of Xbox owners will have a gimped machine without even realising.

[Ko_Uraki]

The real minus point of the xbox one is its price. The other things are the typical and useless debates about "which is the most powerful hardware" that happen every 5-6 years. The xbox one will be more than capable to face the PS4.

[Goku781]

100 dollars more capable?

[gamertk421]

Yep. If $100 is a deal breaker from playing the games you want and getting everything else that comes with the experience, then you have the wrong hobby.

[Goku781]

@gamertk421 I have owned almost every system since Atari 2600. Money is not the issue, the issue is when a company like MS have a track record of selling people s#!+¥ products, smile and lie about what they are selling you I.E. kinnect was really necessary, the machine had to be always on (the 180 stuff, sorry not lies), their specs (they made it and act like they don't have a clue), being 100 dollars worth more than a stronger system, things like that. But if that's fine with you, you can be my guest and take my place standing in line for that on day one. Enjoy.

[Deltaohio]

Never seen so much hatters in my life.
Everything he said went completely over my head but didn't change my view much. All I got was xbox 360 but way better specs.
Yet ppl who are unqualified just wanna hate just for the sake of it.

[Angeljuice]

Hatters make hats, haters hate.

[Deltaohio]

Well fuck me and call me sue. Good point.

[MultiConsoleGamer]

Everything you have heard about the power of each machine is wrong. Everything you have heard is either propaganda and / or corporate PR. It has been delivered by pundits and partisans. It's data that only fools believe because it's exactly what they want to hear.

All the fanboys will tell you the other side is lying, but that only proves their ignorance and further proves my point.

Also one company has a well established reputation for selling their products with lies and hyperbole, and in the end their hardware never delivers the goods.

I consider every disagree vote I receive to be a small victory for the truth, because after all, when you're dealing with fanboys, the truth hurts .

[XabiDaChosenOne]

Do you have any intent of proving the claims in hour first paragraph or are you just venting out of fustration?

[Hicken]

Your point is as tangible as the hot air you're full of.

PROVE IT.

All you've said is, "You're wrong, and if you disagree with me, it proves I'm right." What are you, a politician? Your opinion isn't worth the paper Monopoly money is printed on, because there's NOTHING to back it up.

Par for the course for you, I know, but I thought you'd grown out of saying such garbage.

[MultiConsoleGamer]

Toy Story Graphics
Emotion Engine
Reality Synthesizer
50% more powerful!
4D Gaming
Super Computer
Power of the Cell

Etc.

Liars are always the first to say "oh yeah? We'll prove it!" when confronted with their obvious lies. This is how you know they are lying. They always instantly adopt a defensive posture. The same can be said for the mindless, hostile, insecure fanboy drones who believe these PR lies.

[Hicken]

"Everything you have heard about the power of each machine is wrong. Everything you have heard is either propaganda and / or corporate PR."

Then you proceed to list a handful of PR statements, a few true things, and at least one thing that remains to be seen.

What part of the Emotion Engine was wrong or a lie? The Cell's power? The PS4's 50% power advantage? Not sure exactly what you speak of- since you're intentionally vague- but the PS3 certainly was used as a supercomputer(both by the US military and through the Folding@Home project).

You've left out a lot of things, presumably because we don't know how true they are yet, or because they WERE true.

You sound like a paranoid conspiracy theorist... now that I think of it, it's not the first such comment.

Do you immediately assume prosecutors and scientists are lying? That nobody's innocent?

Godlovesgamers scoffed at my claim of being a writer with a lot of projects going on at once, but I can prove it. Of course, he's got me blocked, so he doesn't have to be proven wrong. In the meanwhile, he'll keep spreading the same BS than I'm lying, while having his eyes closed and his fingers in his ears.

Apparently, you're doing the same, as statements from third party developers, system architects, and even parts manufacturers all count as PR bull to you.

[MultiConsoleGamer]

^tl:dr

Remember what I said about defensive fanboys? When the truth hits too close to home they instantly go on the offensive. What else would you expect from a brainwashed corporate drone?

Folks, this fall I will be enjoying both the PS4 and the Xbox One, and I won't care about the "power" of either system. I will simply be having fun. After all, if power was the only thing that mattered I would play all my games on PC. Listening to people argue about which console is more powerful is like watching children argue about who has the fastest big wheel on the playground. It's even worse when neither side has all the facts.

One last thing, all you need to do to disprove any lies coming from either side is just look at the games and judge for yourself. Even the dumbest fanboy can agree with this common sense logic.

[xKugo]

Seemns like Microsoft took a somewhat foolhardy conservative approach to graphical output, set features, latency and system balance. They'll end up paying the price later down the line.

Btw, MisterxMedia is spewing so much BS out of his mouth it's unreal. Somebody should really help that guy/girl.

[True_Samurai]

Here we go let's see what the n4g developers have to say

[WeAreLegion]

A lot of developers are on N4G. It's a major gaming forum. It's feedback. Many developers are on Reddit, too.

[Sarobi]

"we're based on the Sea Islands family" ..BUT...BUT THE NDA!...THE VOLCANIC ISLAND SERIES!??!!? /s

[christocolus]

Nice now looking forward to the great games coming out at launch and sometime next year...d4 , sunset overdrive , halo 5, dr3, forza5, ryse ,project spark. by mid next year we will start seeing the next wave of games that will be developed using the consoles full capabilities..personally I'm excited at what rare, 343, blacktusk, epic, remedy, square,crytek,dice, konami , capcom, platinum, lionhead and other talented devs would be able to do with the hardware..this is going to be great..

[beerzombie]

Yes it's finally said; the games not some specs to talk about the games and Sony doesn't seem to have any launch games to talk about so they talk powerful specs.

[DoesUs]

WOW!......no surprises, and just what most of us already know. A very nice and powerful machine. But has a number of hoops it needs to go through to get the best performance from. PS4 by contrast, has less hoops to go through to reach its optimal level, which still is the more powerful machine.

Frigid and Elite will not be well after the "shocking revelation" that the gpu is not based on the Volcanic series!

But but the NDA!!!

[obelix01]

Well like millions of other people the technical stuff just discussed is something most don't understand. I don't understand it. I understand the ps4 has more power, according to all the hype surrounding it. However that's irrelevant to me. I simply prefer the games X1 has not to mention the superior online experience that has already been established with the 360. In the end its the games & fun factor that does it for me. That's why I'm buying a X1.

[Kuse]

Man everyone on this website is a developer and a programmer! Its the best site ever...

/sarcasm

[sAVAge_bEaST]

I thought this debate was settled last week,. (except for the secret sauce Believers,, and the NDA -B$ters)

It's ok guys, you still will have a billion transistors, the revolutionary Kinect gimmick, and DA Powaar of da Clowdz!!! ;s

[fyapitt]

All said and done ....still getting one

[noloyalties]

Finally a good article to explain and back up MS thinking.

To continue these car analogies. PS4 is a drag racer on a road course, XBox One is now more clearly defined as a Formula1 road course driver.

[Hicken]

Um... no. Not quite.

The XB1 is more like a DTM car, while the PS4 is like an F1 with the ease of use of a daily driver.

[JohnS1313]

The Xbox 180 is an F1 car that crashed and burned and is laying off to the side next to some bales of hay.

[UncleGermrod]

Does everyone realize how lame these comparisons are? spoken like the words of a true virgin....uhhhh my xbox is formula 1 car. Let's just wait and see. Sounds to me like both systems will perform well. Ps4 would seem to have the edge by all accounts but articles like this just back up the idea that xbox one should hold its own just fine. Either way, what difference does any of this flame war garbage make in the end?

[GraveLord]

""Yeah, I think that's right. In terms of getting the best possible combination of performance, memory size, power, the GDDR5 takes you into a little bit of an uncomfortable place,""

-Sounds like Sony engineers outclassed Microsofts!

""This controversy is rather surprising to me, especially when you view as ESRAM as the evolution of eDRAM from the Xbox 360. No-one questions on the Xbox 360 whether we can get the eDRAM bandwidth concurrent with the bandwidth coming out of system memory. In fact, the system design required it," explains Andrew Goosen."

-360 was easy to develop for when compared to PS3. Comparing PS4 to XB1 is completely different and PS4 destroys XB1 in terms of ease of development.

""My take on it is that when you buy a graphics card, do you go by the specs or do you actually run some benchmarks?""

-Both. PS4 wins out no matter which your go by.

""Firstly though, we don't have any games out. You can't see the games. When you see the games you'll be saying, 'what is the performance difference between them""

-We'll see the game in a few months. That'll render your little PR campaign useless.

""We've had the opportunity with the Xbox One to go and check a lot of our balance.""

-Oh, so you're saying PS4 is unbalanced? LOL. Pathetic.

""Everybody knows from the internet that going to 14 CUs should have given us almost 17 per cent more performance," he says, "but in terms of actual measured games - what actually, ultimately counts - is that it was a better engineering decision to raise the clock. There are various bottlenecks you have in the pipeline that can cause you not to get the performance you want if your design is out of balance.""

-We already know the Xbox One GPU is weaker than the PS4s, so increasing the CUs would't really do much FOR YOUR SYSTEM.

[GraveLord]

""Sony was actually agreeing with us. They said that their system was balanced for 14 CUs. They used that term: balance. Balance is so important in terms of your actual efficient design.""

-Oh, so you agree that Sony's engineers aren't stupid and are capable of building a powerful balanced system? Good.

""Interestingly, the biggest source of your frame-rate drops actually comes from the CPU, not the GPU," Goosen reveals. "Adding the margin on the CPU... we actually had titles that were losing frames largely because they were CPU-bound in terms of their core threads. In providing what looks like a very little boost, it's actually a very significant win for us in making sure that we get the steady frame-rates on our console.""

-SIGH. This will vary from game to game. A game build for consoles should be GPU focused. Let's face it, both PS4 and XB1 have weak-ass CPUs.

""What we're seeing in titles is adopting the notion of dynamic resolution scaling to avoid glitching frame-rate. As they start getting into an area where they're starting to hit on the margin there where they could potentially go over their frame budget, they could start dynamically scaling back on resolution and they can keep their HUD in terms of true resolution and the 3D content is squeezing. Again, from my aspect as a gamer I'd rather have a consistent frame-rate and some squeezing on the number of pixels than have those frame-rate glitches.""

-Or you could have a powerful system that wouldn't need dynamic resolutions at all and have a consistent frame-rate.

NOTICE HOW THEY NEVER SAID THEY HAVE THE MORE POWERFUL CONSOLE OR THAT THEY HAVE BETTER GRAPHICS? THAT'S BECAUSE THAT HONOR BELONGS TO THE PS4. I'm sure the Xbox One is a balanced system. But it's not better than the PS4. Sony 3 generations of engineering experience, that's not even counting Vita or PSP. Sony just has an amazing engineering team. Microsoft never really had a chance.

[Grave]

So it boils down to this:

You are gonna pay $100 more for 25% less frames per second.

Seems reasonable. Not.

I look at it from a PC gamer perspective. When upgrading a graphics card (or any other part) never ever have I said "Oh look at that, its more expensive and it doesn't perform as well as the competition, I'll take it!" lolz.

[alexkoepp]

But remember also in the PC world you can make a great $800 PC but hipsters shell out $1500 for the crapbook pro or whatever that worthless crap apple puts out haha

[stiggs]

Why is it that 90% of the comments in this thread are from Sony supporters? Will someone please explain to me the lure of posting derogatory statements in a thread dedicated to a competitors gaming console? It's so asinine...I don't get it.

I would even equate some of your comments to a form of bullying or bigotry. Most of the people that comment on N4G are in the camp of "if you're not with me then you are my enemy". What ever happened to sportsmanship and the concept of tolerance? Why can't you just accept other console owners as gamers instead of "the competition"? When it comes down to it we all love games and that should be enough to establish a binding sense of community.

The PS4 is a bit more powerful than the XBOX One. WHO CARES! Just buy what you want and be happy with that decision. Don't stick you meager chest out and belittle someone for making a different purchase than you. Frankly, you guys come off as narrow minded hate mongers.

I've singled PS4 owners out because it seems that they permeate every article revolving around the XBOX One. But make no mistake, XBOX fans can be just as obtuse.

I happen to be buying both consoles because I can appreciate the merits of each system. But even if I just stuck with the PS4 or XBOX One I wouldn't let that fact dictate my behavior or influence my interaction with other gamers.

[OC_MurphysLaw]

+Bub.... well said.

[Animal Mutha 76]

Absolutely right. The behaviour of many on here is disgraceful. The reputation of N4G on many other enlightened and good natured forums is that its a pit of fanboyism and hatred. The Sunday Sport of gaming - Brits will know what I mean.

All of this venom over 2 boxes that aren't even out yet. I maintain that the end products will be more similar than different and I want both to be successful for the good of our hobby, but that's not good enough for some on here who's lives seem to be enriched by the thought of one company failing.

I no longer tell people that I frequent this site. I certainly wouldn't recommend it as a source of balanced news and intelligent discussion.

OT - Eurogamer have done a good job of just putting over the information given without being judgemental. That is for another article. It certainly seems to indicate that there is no secret sauce in X1 and that MS are trying to manage expectations that have been damaged by Sonys effective PR campaign with hardcore gamers.

[mayberry]

@stiggs^
You said "The PS4 is a bit more powerful than the XBOX One."
A "bit" should of been written as "significantly", thats why gamers prefer the PS4 over the XBONE. And thats also why people who post on this forum who constantly downplay the difference between the two consoles are considered "in denial","trolling&qu ot;. We want truth, not excuses as consumers.

[meatysausage]

Your the exact person he was saying that destroys a site like this.

[Kujii]

Sportsmanship, tolerance and public internet comments sections will never go togther. Ever.

You just need to sit back and enjoy the show

[BOLO]

Welcome to the world of competition/favoritism. This is about making an investment in a product you want to be proud of...Not making friends or people happy. It happens in all aspects of life and business and is akin to the my d*ck is bigger than yours mantra. Ofcourse we will argue/state facts/figures in regards to consoles...The problem is the excuses/lies/irrational explanations brought forth by M$FT and Xbot's alike has caused abit of frustration and aggressiveness from the PS camp. So with that said if one can't take the heat...Stay out the kitchen. So far from the lies/indecisiveness of M$FT, I've concluded/observed...

Xbot's = Muppets

M$FT = Jim Henson

[cell989]

Totally agree with you

[slampunk]

@stiggs

What a refreshing and well written comment (Rare on N4G)!!! Couldn't agree more.....The "one console" gamers on this site are hilarious....

I'm also getting both and cant wait to the end of November!!!

[OC_MurphysLaw]

Its a good read and definitely sheds light of some of the math from MS. Does it totally answer everything? No but MS goesmuch much deeper than previously in other interviews which great..

[voodoogts]

My money is going to a company that is making gains. Not a company struggling to make profit the last four years. XB1!

[BOLO]

Windows Phone is getting smashed by Samsung/Apple...Windows 8 has a less than stellar reception/sales...Xbone's cable TV/Steambox DRM dynamic got backlash...And Steve Ballmer is being canned in the next 12 months...I would say M$FT is well on their way to being in Sony's market cap loss shoes.

[t3rrorc3ll]

Really. Again with this crap. Microsofts gaming division does not have access to all of the companies profits. The gaming division much like their phone division and OS division are operated as separate entities. To think that Microsoft would in anyway take money from their OS division to prop up the gaming division is just a delusional. Lets look at SCE the part of sony that is the gaming division. It's is worth more than micorsofts gaming division. Seriously some of you guys have no business knowledge and act so retarded

[ethomaz]

Secret sauce...

[Thunderhawkxbox]

Woow I didn't know you are here too just to remind everyone he's Sony fan boys at vgchartz and he always negative about Xbox one and again he thinks he knows about everything last time he said forza 5 graphics looks like a cartoon so u can judge him from what I said

[ethomaz]

Forza 5 looks like cartoon/toy... what the issue here?

[Ashlen]

I think MS should have just stuck to advertising there system by number of transistors water cooler sizes and types of science.

[IQUITN4G]

That's what I love about Rabid Sony fans, they're all incredibly clued up on tech. There I was thinking they were mostly idiots

[TheRealHeisenberg]

They are. I'll just leave it at that.

[DevilishSix]

I find it interesting that many defenders on here of X1 always use the MS designed the system so its balanced and all the tech tweaks will make the consoles close in power, yet they never mention that Sony has tweaked and optimized the PS4 just like MS did with X1 so its not like X1 is optimized and PS4 is not.

I just find it funny that is used as a arguement point for X1 totally disregarding Sony as a hardware manufacturing and enginering company.

[oscarcat59]

Most of Sony money comes from their insurance branch not their electronic business. So I wonder how good their hardware and engineering side is. We will find out in November.

[t3rrorc3ll]

Yet Sony's GAMING division is worth more than microsofts. Againj learn about business structure moron

[Smootherkuzz]

Seems they are going to be great consoles with great functions and games. they the same but different, they use different ways to bring the functions alive. But the fun value will be great for both consoles.

[NeloAnjelo]

Basically MS is saying " listen up suckeres, you lots are fools, we know everything and you don't, so shut it! Our words mean more than everyone else, and your tests are wrong"

Ok MS. Keep trying to justify the OS and Kinect, rather than optimising for GAMES!

[Chris12]

I'm glad we have a fully qualified electronics engineer at N4G, can you link us to your tests? Or anyone else's for that matter.

I'm buying PS4 but it's comments like yours that are really giving gamers a bad name at the moment.

[NeloAnjelo]

Clearly you didn't read the article or you would have seen the analysis and understood my comment. Anyways, it's clear that MS is on the defensive with the XBOX1's power. Yet eveything else contradicts.

Read that however you want.

I guess comments like this give gamers a bad name. I call it as I see it.

[Chris12]

I read it, the difference is I didn't act like a tit once I had read it.

[RenegadeRocks]

LOL !

[Metfanant]

can this PLEASE put to bed the nonsense about all the hidden special power that misterX is spreading? forget about this NDA nonsense and MS making a reveal later this month...

MS is being very open about their tech now...there is nothing else hidden

[CJDUNCAN]

I don't understand the tech talk, so all I can go off is history. The PS3 was supposed to be the vastly superior machine, and for all intents and purposes, it didn't deliver. The 360 was the easier machine to design around, now both the PS4 and X1 are saying how easy their new consoles can be optimized with developers. So we as gamers win regardless.

Who cares if the raw power says the PS4 can give us a couple more wrinkles on a skin texture. All of the tech is theoretical, meaning possibilities not assurances. Both machines will be great, but all of this backwards and forwards is foolish. We all by now have chosen which console we will get. Some days I'll play my brother's PS4, heck I already have Infamous Second Son pre-ordered for myself on his console!

Maybe we are in the age of entitled gamers...

[wishingW3L]

the only thing this article shows is out of touch the MS engineers are because unlike Mark Cerny they aren't actual game developers. All their R&D is based on theory and not practice.

They say that they find surprising that some game developers find the esRam hard to work with because it is an evolution of the edRam on the X360. But what they don't tell you is that most developers used the 10MB of edRam for free 4x MSAA to not having to deal with it. In fact, Cerny did a presentation discussing why Sony didn't go with 4GB of GDDR5 and esRam even though it gave them a bandwidth of 1000 GB/s. I think these MS engineers should go watch it and learn something because if Sony learned something with the PS3 is that theoretical numbers are meaningless.

[theWB27]

Oh...so now that Cerny is the media darling and PS4 architect/dev it means that's the only way to go? Do you believe more systems have been made by developers rather than engineers?

To your second paragraph...he's talking about the public thinking its harder to develop for, not the actual devs. I haven't heard any controversy from devs talking about how hard it is to develop for the X1. The misconception about memory bandwith has been from the public..not devs.

What would they learn from Sony? As pretty much everyone has pointed out...the PS4 isn't some magical work of art. It's a straightforward, easy to design for, powerful machine. There isn't anything inherently exotic about it.

If anything, Sony learned from Microsoft this past gen which made them go this cheaper, less custom, friendlier design path.

[wishingW3L]

if you weren't a butthurt fanboy and had a much wider understanding of what is being talked here you wouldn't have written this comment. And that's why it'd be pointless to discuss anything with you.

[theWB27]

"if you weren't a butthurt fanboy and had a much wider understanding of what is being talked here you wouldn't have written this comment. And that's why it'd be pointless to discuss anything with you."

To vastly simplify that...you basically had no reply to the rubbish you wrote.

"lol, pretty much. These poor MS engineers did the best they could but Sony bested them and now at this point the only thing they can do is damage control.

I bet they were making the XB1 based on what they could gather about what Sony was doing with the PS4. But then all of a sudden with the increment of ram that took everybody by surprise and the 18 CUs on the GPU due to the additional space in the die because of no esRam, MS's plans went down the crapper. And what's left is late tweaking, damage control and hope for the best."

This next one from you implies Microsoft would've known what Sony was doing from the R&D stage of development and thus had the time to change everything about the X1. Negative...

It's so hard for people to understand Microsoft isn't chasing Sony. Sony isn't chasing Microsoft. They both have their own visions for their console and they followed it. Micro was pretty successful this gen going the opposite way of Sony...no Bluray, no Cell etc...but now it's time to copy?

I appreciate your reply of butthurt fanboy...if you could've defended the crap you wrote you would have...

[joefrost00]

Them same people you say that are out of touch invented and do DirectX
The main programming language for games

[DoesUs]

Direct X isn't a programming language.

[yewles1]

"Every one of the Xbox One dev kits actually has 14 CUs on the silicon. Two of those CUs are reserved for redundancy in manufacturing, but we could go and do the experiment - if we were actually at 14 CUs what kind of performance benefit would we get versus 12? And if we raised the GPU clock what sort of performance advantage would we get? And we actually saw on the launch titles - we looked at a lot of titles in a lot of depth - we found that going to 14 CUs wasn't as effective as the 6.6 per cent clock upgrade that we did."

And THIS is BS because...

http://anandtech.com/bench/...

[wishingW3L]

lol, pretty much. These poor MS engineers did the best they could but Sony bested them and now at this point the only thing they can do is damage control.

I bet they were making the XB1 based on what they could gather about what Sony was doing with the PS4. But then all of a sudden with the increment of ram that took everybody by surprise and the 18 CUs on the GPU due to the additional space in the die because of no esRam, MS's plans went down the crapper. And what's left is late tweaking, damage control and hope for the best.

[oscarcat59]

I see extra circuits built in to reduce the work needed done by the cpu, gpu and memory. I also see software being matched with the hardware. Sony went with brute force Microsoft went with a more complicated design. I think it will all depend on the tools given to the game developer and money they have to work with more than the hardware. In the end both ps4 and Xbox one will play games great. Also I get tired of the Xbox one costs one hundred dollars more. You get the Kinect. And if it is that big of a deal I doubt you can afford either. Both will cost you too much.

[t3rrorc3ll]

Still trying to justify $100 for inferior console

[oscarcat59]

Not really neither of us knows moron unless you have both and compared them moron. And the gaming division for Ms is pocket change. For Sony it is far more than that moron. I plan to get both but you are an idiot buying the hype of either company. Let's wait and see before the crap is thrown around moron. Like being called names moron.

[MRMagoo123]

Hmmmmmm i think its kind of funny how their are a lot of MS fans here with the comment " I dont have a clue about any of this stuff but i believe major nelson" Yet in other articles about actual devs saying the ps4 is better off their own backs and we get comments like "The devs have no clue MS have super secrets that no one knows about"

All i got from this article is what we knew all along, the secret NDA and the dGPU was bs and can all be put to bed, the ps4 is the most powerful hardware of the two.

I am sure MS will have some good games on their console anyway but lets not pretend they will have a console on par with the ps4 performance wise when its not true, even if we try to say that MS somehow configured all the components to their peak, Sony would have done the same thing with the better hardware.

[1nsomniac]

Straight from the Microsoft's technicians own mouth "... {DDR3]memory is cheaper as well so you can afford more. "

OK so you chose DDR3 because your cheap with the excuse being because you could add more for less, yet you didn't add any more.... Well done Microsoft, well done!

[AceBlazer13]

fact cant be avoided that the xbox one is gonna have to run to where the ps4 can skip to.

[Reem]

MS has done it again! ...which is fooling the bots lol

[joefrost00]

PS2:
Toy story graphics
PS3:
So many more teraflops than the 360 almost double in power
We saw how that turned out
PS4:
50% more faster(note not one developer every say more powerful just faster when developing there is a difference)
The magazine(edge) actually lied in their article which was proven in this
Digital foundry basically said they were lying when talking about the memory bandwidth
And you say MS is doing it again lol
Sony (even game journalist have said this) have a history of over promising on their consoles 6usb ports and dual screen gaming ring a bell
The only thing you sony fanboys fall for the same thing every time lol

[AceBlazer13]

Ps3 isn't crashing trying to run gta v though.

[urwifeminder]

Said it before but I would pay the extra 100 bux not to have sony logo on my console.

[t3rrorc3ll]

You should change your avatar. That guy is a good actor. Your a dumbshit

[urwifeminder]

Thanks for the reply I really enjoyed the insult and look forward to your next one enjoy your games.

[FlunkinMonkey]

I would pay 100 'bux' to not have you on PSN.

[urwifeminder]

Me as well I tried it once thanks for the contact.

[Jeedai Infidel]

All these numbers mean to me is that games are going to look and play way better than the current gen versions, so I win no matter what system I choose(which will always be all of them eventually). Call me when math class is over, lol.

[BX81]

Here is what is going to happen. Just like last gen sony is going to be a little more powerful. Ryse looks great and so does kz. I'm getting XB1 first because I like to game on live and so do my friends. I see bias gamers acting like choosing one or the other makes you dumb. Choose the system you feel comfortable with or both. Arguing about a small difference in the consoles is stupid when pc's blow them away. I like consoles more than pc's because I don't like the idea of upgrading often. Good article to read.

[abusador]

Ryse drops to 900p with crap gameplay, dead rising barely made 30fps with low resolution and now Forza has been seen to have a visual downgrade at tgs Lol great balance, meanwhile at Sony camp kz sf mp 1089p with 60fps, resogun 1080p at 60 fps, infamous looks better than anything on next gen consoles and ppl are really asking where the 50% difference in speed and 30% in raw power is seen! Selective memory and ignoring things doesn't make your argument true. So many idiots hoping for the dgpu and now that that is dead thy talk about about special architecture, some of you guys are really sad, just give it up man especially since thy both have customized architecture and ps4 even has more customized Chips for instant dling and other stuff.

[joefrost00]

Damn you dumb
Ryse has 100 hundred man battles you play
KZ is a FPS which everybody knows is the easiest genre to do graphically
DR3 is actually higher than 720p with everything going on and no load times totally open world infamous dont have half of the stuff going on as dr3 do
Forza suppose downgrade lol
Its funny only one site is reporting this
But I know MS paid everyone else not to report it
Also look it up The Order is native 800p and that game dont come out for a year
Atleast ryse is a launch game and im sure ryse is on a bigger scale

[abusador]

Watch ur mouth lil man because i know if you were in front of me you wouldnt be talking like that. Your the idiot that cant comprehend things well. You talk about Ryse? 100 man battles of what idiot? Npcs that all look like twins, linear as hell and gameplay is lacking!!!! Plz go pull that bs on someone else Kz SF is doing more than Ryse. All Ryse has going for itself is a protagonis thy used all their assets for but neglected the gameplay and the npcs all look alike, smh
Dead Rising 3 isnt anything to write home about with another game where all the npcs look alike and gameplay looks super repetitive. The game had tons of fps problems until they now say its locked at 30fps but well see bcus Microsoft loves to pull the wool over ppls eyes.

Infamous is open world and looks to school most devs on how to do it! and do it right! Kz Sf has a protagonist and npcs that look different from eachother while still mainting visual fidelity.

Dont make me school you man, seriously!

[kewlkat007]

You guys still going at it...

[jhoward585]

All talk but no proof.

I don't even know why most of you brother with this PR rant.

I don't know about yall..

I need proof...show some games demos, better yet show me titan fall running on an X1 hardware.

GIVE US SOME PROOF MS.

[Games_R_Us]

Surely all teh games that are running at TGS and have been show should be proof enough. Im yet to see anything on PS4 that blows away the Xbox One as of yet.

Oh wait, thats right, they cant even get the PS4 working at TGS!!!!

[larrysdirtydrawss]

that dragon alone from deep down i wont say made the xone graphics look dated,but it really showed the difference having 50% stronger gpu,an extra GB of ram,and all your bandwidth used for your main(and only) memory can do.and the game has a way to go yet as i dont think its a launch game... hell, the division(only seen the ps4 version) did this also..

[bromtown]

What I can't get away from is that they were paying a lot of attention to power consumption, GDDR5 is more power hungry than DDR3 and the Xbox One is a media centre meant to be left on for long periods of time, but GDDR5 is undoubtably the better RAM for gaming purposes. Essentially the games portion has been compromised for the media portion.

May be an overly simplistic point of view but that's how it seems on the face of it.

[Holeran]

60% of the time the console with the best developers wins all of the time.

[mkis007]

That doesn't make sense.

[Holeran]

did you get the reference or not because your comment was the next line in the movie.

[mkis007]

:) I am the only one the commented

[Gamer666]

Wow there are a lot of people in these threads that know absolutely nothing about system design and architecture.

REALITY:

We will not know which console has the better design and architecture until about year 3-5 of the generation.

The games now look good on both consoles, but outside of Killzone's AI, Forza 5's AI and physics engine and deadrising's bizillion's of zombies on screen at once there has been very little earth shattering news from either console on changes to gameplay this generation. Sure the graphics of all the games are greatly improved, but graphics are only a small part of what makes a game great.

Time will tell the true story.

[wishingW3L]

do you realize that both consoles have the same architecture and same design? lol

the only difference is the ram set-up. PS4 has GDDR5 and used the space left in the die for 2 more CUs while XB1 used that space for the esRam, so it has 2 less CUs (12 instead of 14 because 2 are disabled vs 18 on PS4). And that's all there is to it when it comes to just the hardware. PS4 wins at everything but CPU read/write bandwidth because of GDDR5 latency.

The next battle to be fought is software wise. DirectX vs Sony's custom low level APIs based on openGL, OS's memory foot-prints, etc. On this regard MS might win everything except for the APIs in the long run because Sony offers more low level extensions on their APIs than directX.

[larrysdirtydrawss]

talk to any dev on beyond3d,latency wont be much of a problem for that ram.. and they rather have their main ram getting the bandwidth instead of the majority going to a tiny 32mb space.. there already been quotes from devs saying the esram is a pain in the ass to work with

[PsylentKiller]

I don't understand how people just look at the paper specs and jump to conclusions from that. I'm picking the X1 first because my experience on live has been better than PSN. The free games are awesome but the chat is inferior to line xbox offering, for me at least. I feel more comfortable with an xbox controller and now with all the upgrades it will be even better. The GPU, CPU, RAM, have nothing to do with why I'm picking the X1 over the PS4 at launch. Not to mention, for me, Home Gold will be cheaper than PS+. I'll get practically two subscriptions for $60 with gold. Home console and my gamertag. Anyone can get gold on the home console in the family room and I'll get it on my console in my room with my gamertag. I'll have three consoles in my home so I'll pay $120 but if I add another it will still be $120 because of the home console and gamertag thing. With PS+ it's $50 per gamertag. 3 tags means $150 and 4 is $200. I know you'll get to take them anywhere but all the people I know will have home gold which means it wont be a problem if I go and play at their house even if the gold wasn't linked to my gamertag.
I think everyone should make their decision on all factors, not just internal components.

[isarai]

you got poor info bro, PS+ is cheaper than Gold by $10/month and one plus membership gives everyone on that console the same service. Also you have yet to try the changed gamepads, seeing as how they are both pretty different from the current gamepads(especially the Dualshock 4) how can you draw any conclusions? Also PSN only locks direct multiplayer behind PS+ which means at base value PSN still offers a better deal, that coupled with the fact that you get free games with plus, there are over a dozen GOOD free to play games that don't require plus to play, you can upgrade your internal HDD and is overall a $100 cheaper console means with your logic of making your decisions on all factors you should be leaning more towards PS4 at this point using only the factors you're taking into account. Factor in how important your friends list(or which console you're friends will be getting), profile, games, etc then it would make sense to go for XB1 but based on your post you're mainly factoring in the price of everything which overall PS4 is far cheaper while on paper offering more

[SynestheticRoar]

It's simple arithmetic. The one with the highest number wins. That's the PS4 ftw. Only the inbread with two left hands, and no basic understanding of math. Will pick X1.

[t3rrorc3ll]

Just for parity the word is inbred. Come on man. I want to buy a ps4 and not have to play with people like you or Xbox fans either. Can't we just have a social group of gamers who aren't you guys?

[Games_R_Us]

Great write up and interview. Proof is in the pudding bitches. If you still wanna argue about power, buy a PC! :)

[Metfanant]

the meltdown on the MisterX blog is almost sad...i feel bad for them...almost...

[mkis007]

So bad...

[mkis007]

At this point, or the end of September for conspiracy theorists, I think we all need to just take a break from this specs battle. Who cares right now? Is anyone really going to cancel a preorder at this point? At the very least you can go flip whatever console you don't want for some bonus $$$. Everyone is pretending like these specs arguments really matter to all the other commentators. We have all decided what we want at this point; 1 of them, both, or neither. I feel like everyone is just http://www.youtube.com/watc...

[BG11579]

The Xbone is so well balanced that you cannot put it vertically.
This would upset the balance. ^^

[larrysdirtydrawss]

OnYou + 18h ago
Good read. I won't pretend I understand it all but it sounds like microsoft knows exactly how they want X1 to perform in relation to games. I predict when we get the final bench tests the overall performance differences will be marginal at best.
jou,i was waiting for your response,i basically nailed it in my head exactly word for word what you were gonna say. they need to hire you for p.r..... you defend it like its your child... just admit it cheapened out on power,and just enjoy the games instead of worrying how ppl should think. you'll sleep better at night

[Max-Zorin]

I see the fanboys are at it again.

[kakashi81]

so can DDR3 and Esram simultaneously read and write giving it the 209GB they were talking about?