Shin’en: If devs have a hard time making great looking games on Wii U, not the hardware’s fault

"In a recent interview with Manfred Linzner of Shin’en, the developers of Nano Assault Neo, the developer stated that if developers are having trouble making Wii U games look great, then it is the developer's fault, not the Wii U's. This comes after Nano Assault Neo was met with critical acclaim, often regarded as the best looking Wii U game on the market" -- Nintendo Enthusiast.

[PopRocks359]

Considering Nano Assault looks superb for a downloadable game, I think these guys have every right to talk. Wii U is not the Xbox 360 people keep making it out to be.

[BlackWolf]

I really like the way this guys speak in defense of the Wii U. They speak with the experience they have gained from developing with the console. I'm confident that this guys know what they're talking about.

[PopRocks359]

I would say so as well. Nano Assault Neo looks very impressive for what is practically a Wii U doanwloadable launch game. It has particle effects, physics, lighting, a great and detailed art style and it runs at 60fps (not sure what resolution it is rendered at though).

I would argue Nano Assault looks better than a lot of 360/PS3 games and it already performs a lot better than most as well. Most people writing off Sin'en's experience with Wii U probably never played the game.

[n4f]

no i prefer to believe random strangers in n4g, they have way more experience
/s

[ritsuka666]

Nano Assault Neo is a underrated gem of Wii U, people should look fot this amazing game.

[Murad]

I was actually looking up pics for the title and realized that it reminded me of Sin and Punishement and I like the overall coloring of it. Definitely looks like something I might pick up if i ever buy a Wii U.

[badz149]

It's kinda funny when Wii U fans are arm in arm over this. It's almost ironic that for many years now people are blaming the PS3 for all the bad ports and games with mandatory install instead of the devs.

[Venoxn4g]

yea, they are since DS and all their games are graphical benchmarks and with good gameplay, i love shinen

[LOL_WUT]

So basically this guy has only made a downloadable game on the Wii U as opposed to a full blown retail game? Maybe I'm the only one but I would like to see this guy prove is wrong on the Wii U and no with an eShop game. ;)

[X1PS4WiiU]

You're implying that you know the limit to this guys knowledge based on an assumption.

[deafdani]

LOL_WUT, just because a game is downloadable doesn't mean it can't be amazing (yup, I just used a double negative)!

I have Trine 2 on Wii U, which looks stunning, and according to Frozenbyte (that game's devs), the Goblin Menace expansion that they included on the Wii U version was absent from the PS3 and Xbox 360 versions because those consoles couldn't handle said expansion without a serious graphical downgrade. (Yes, the Goblin Menace looks spectacular, even better than the main game, which is already serious eye candy).

And according to pretty much everyone who has played it, Nano Assault Neo is an absolute looker. Of course I don't know because I haven't played it myself, but if there's so many people saying it, it's probably true.

Being downloadable means nothing nowadays. A game can still be pretty demanding for a system even if it's not a full blown retail game. Trine 2 is a perfect example of that.

A lot of people here take you for an insufferable troll, but I think otherwise. You can be a bit extreme with your opinions sometimes, but I don't think you're ill-intended and I suspect you can be pretty logic and rationale.

If you can, I recommend that you buy Trine 2 for Wii U, if you haven't already. So you can see by yourself how superb a game can be both artistically and technically, despite being digital-only. On top of that, it's a great game as well, it's not only eye candy, and it even has online play. Maybe we could play together, even.

;)

[PopRocks359]

Your buddy there told me in another thread that the Wii U is confirmed to be only on par with the Xbox 360.

I don't see how anyone that isn't a troll can maintain such an opinion after Need For Speed's Wii U port. Or Nano Assault Neo being run on Wii U and not the former for that matter. Or Crytek confirming their latest engine running on all next gen consoles, including Wii U.

[deafdani]

That's why I said a lot of people think of him just as a troll, whereas I think otherwise. It's a matter of perception, because LOL_WUT isn't as blatantly hateful as people like Hatsune_Miku, Mika, Maria Hel Futura, and the like. THOSE are the ones I consider bona-fide trolls.

But I see Lol Wut as someone who's pretty intense on its opinions, and exxagerates sometimes, but I've seen him also saying good things and valid criticisms about Nintendo. I think it's more his signature ";)" at the end of all of his posts that infuriates so much people, because it comes across as trollish pretty easily. :P

Anyway. Would you like to add me on Wii U? gurfinki is my NNID. :)

[Brucis]

That downloadable game looks better than some full-blown retail games.

[lilbroRx]

First off its not one guy.

Second, the individuals who make up Shin'en also work for other groups and have made games and software and a myriad of platforms.

Third, most of their games were retail starting with the GBA.

Gets your facts straight and stop trolling every good Wii U article with rabid fanboyish ignorance. Its so sad to look at.

Why do you fear Nintendo's success so much?

[AKR]

Excuse me - But Shin'en isn't some off-shot indie developer. Their games are actually really fun. Remember - these are the same guys who developed Jett Rocket, Art of Balance and FAST: Racing League on the Wii through Wiiware. Those games look better than 90% of the system's retail games and that was accomplished with an insane 40mb file size limit.

Do you REALLY think they don't know what they're talking about?

[XboxFun]

GTA V, TLoU, Gears of War 3 are downloadables too, does this make them any less of a game?

[slivery]

What?

[WhiskyWhiskers]

I am not understanding you bringing up those games either. I could understand if they were only digital titles but they aren't.

I am not agreeing with XboxFun or LOL_WUT before you people get all butt hurt.

I just don't understand how using retail games, that can also be downloaded as an example in all this when this was originally about digital games, not retail games.

Others made great points but this was not one of them. You know how many other downloadable retail games you could list off at that point? Way too many as to why comparing retail games to actual digital only games in that sense, makes none.

[XboxFun]

Being retail or digital makes no difference in the quality of the title.

As LOL_Wut implied, because it's a digital title that it can't hold up to the production values of a full retail game which is absolutely false.

Any game can be made downloadable regardless of size or production value. Being one or the other makes no difference in the quality and polish of the game.

These guys have every right to state their opinion about the WiiU whether they made a full retail game or just a downloadable title.

[WhiskyWhiskers]

That I completely understand obviously, the fact is those are retail games. What I am talking about had nothing to do with quality between digital and retail games but the fact you brought up retail games as if they were digital games only or something.

That is what made no sense and still doesn't. It is not the best comparison to make is all I am saying at least not the way you said it.

That is not how you had said it at first, if you said something along these lines like you can also download retail games, does that make them worse? Something like that. If that had been so, I would not even have bothered questioning your reasoning for mentioning retail games.

You should have just said what you told me now, in the first place.

[Murad]

I have a question; have you made a game? No, well, then you shouldn' troll another person. Computer Science isn't an easy course and people who can make a game of this caliber deserve praise; you on the other hand, I do not what major you've ever done or if you're a drop out, but I assure you, you're insulting someone that has worked harder than you to gain the rights to speak up, unlike you.

[XboxFun]

And that X looks absolutely stunning. The WiiU is more than capable, as I have said many, many times before the power has nothing to do with anything it's the games.

[Software_Lover]

The wii-u is more capable then the X360/ps3. That is a fact. It just isn't selling well because of the lack of games and most devs probably dont want to think of ways to use that controller.

IMHO, there is absolutely no reason, other than no HDD, that GTAV should not have been on the WII-U. The HDD could've been the kicker and is probably the one thing lacking for devs. It might just be the underlying factor as to why they do not want to create games for it

[b777conehead]

the hdd no excuse has the deluxe model has 32gb of internal storage. but you can add a external hard drive also. but if you buy the physical disk there should be no issue and on the 360 it lets you use a usb flash drive they could have done the same on wii u

[The_Truth_24_7]

Super Stardust >>> nano assault neo geo.

[X1PS4WiiU]

I agree, but thats irrelevant.

[N4g_null]

Im really liking how they tie every thing to the edram. The bandwidth is very raw. Like he explains it is not your normal in out design. So a normal bandwidth stream isnt possible to measure since you can do so much with out leaving the mcm.

the ps4 tries a similar method with the gddr5 yet it is not even close to the refresh rate of edram.

gpgpu programming truly is the future.

[fghtrer3fb5erg]

its so capable that it can run bf4 in higher settings than the ps4/xboxone, before nintendo brings better looking games to the wiiu, they need to freakin upgrade their OS to a better one, if it wasnt for miiverse half of the ppl who own a one wouldve already quit playing games on wiiU.

[AbortMission]

Lmfao, let's not get too delusional drone.

[AKR]

With the work they've done in the past with their Wiiware titles, as well their immensely beautiful Nano Assault NEO on the eShop - I think it's safe to say this guy is more than qualified to give tech-info on the system.

It's nice to see at least ONE developer speak good of the Wii U's specs instead of something outrageously asinine like:

"Hurr!Hurr!Hurr! It's not a PS4! Hurr!Hurr!Hurr! It's not powerful enough for us!!!"

[jairusmonillas]

No one is having trouble with Wii U. it's just not worth the investment for 3rd parties.

[Misaka_x_Touma]

dude .. dude.... DUDE!!!

[Pancit_Canton]

Journey > Nano Assault if you want to compare indie games and downloadable games.

[Hicken]

Nobody's comparing, though.

Here's the thing: the Wii U is and will be capable of great looking games. That the end-of-gen games look as good as they do on far less powerful consoles means the Wii U should be very capable, as well. Only a fanboy would think otherwise.

However, there's also the truth that, in comparison, the Wii U will lag far behind the PS4 and XB1 in terms of graphical capability.

[Misaka_x_Touma]

is Journey on Wii U?

[Moncole]

Journey isn't an indie game. sony funded everything about it so it can't be indie.

[slivery]

Nano Assault is just such a small scale game. I already said this in another article today. Hard to imagine people are going on so heavily about its graphics, yes they are good but they should be on the Wii U for how small of a game it actually is. The scale of the game is extremely small really it isn't doing anything that demanding either like games Resogun for instance..

This game is very comparable to Super Stardust which isn't very telling either. That game ran on PS3, so that isn't saying much for a game that looks so similar to be running on a new system.

[PopRocks359]

Shin'en previously confirmed that Nano Assault Neo was not possible on the Xbox 360 or PS3. Saying how small it is in scope only speaks volumes in comparison between the platforms.

[TruthbeTold]

Except you are wrong on that. Shin'en was asked about whether or not the scale of a game would downgrade graphics ability and they debunked that.

http://hdwarriors.com/size-...

[LOL_WUT]

Basically what I wanted to say was what slivery said. I was just in a hurry and didn't think it through.

And @ deafdani I bought Trine 2 the same day I did my Wii U they had it on sale I believe. It's a good game which I still need to beat I might just do that now that i'm done with Ghosts n' Goblins my other VC games can wait. ;)

[deafdani]

Really? Well, get on with beating it then! Tell me if you want some coop. After you beat the main story, the Goblin Menace story unlocks, and that one looks gorgeous. :)

[NightStalker33]

Absolutely gorgeous game. For a small, downloadable game that has been confirmed to be using barely a fraction of the Wii U's power, it absolutely screams effort.

[D_RoyJenkins]

Yeah I'll take the word of dozens of respected 3rd party Dev studios over a Dev studio that's in Nintendo's pocket

[NightStalker33]

Ever heard of a company called EA? I hear they and Nintendo have a few issues between each other. Sounds like a company you'd think are respectable.

[D_RoyJenkins]

They are. I love their work, especially the Battlefield and FIFA IPs

[Brucis]

>dozens
Name them.

>Dev studio that's in Nintendo's pocket
So I can't take Naughty Dog's or Santa Monica Studios' word about the PS4?

[ZeekQuattro]

Well played sir.

[D_RoyJenkins]

Awww man, off the top of my head: EA, Gearbox, Bethesda, Epic.....damn, this is harder than I thought. I'd look it up but I'm having too much fun with GTA V. Oh yeah, Rockstar lol

[Brucis]

>EA
Is not a dev and almost universally disliked.
>Gearbox
Has gained some infamy for Colonial Marines and their statement was not on specs. They had also stated that it was powerful and simply couldn't think of a natural reason to put BL2 on the Wii U.
>Bethesda
Is a dev that is known for having very buggy games and problems with ports (ask many PS3 Skyrim owners how good it was at launch).
>Epic
Is now know as a 'dudebro' dev thanks to Gears of War, despite developing other games, and has been catching flak thanks to some of Cliff's comments. Backpedaled on comments laughing at UE 4 on Wii U. Also known to have made an engine that, while popular, has serious pop-in issues.
>R*
Haven't actually said anything negative about the Wii U and have said that they are considering a Wii U version of GTA V. Reggie noted that R* had positive comments.

[D_RoyJenkins]

Man you sound very biased and close minded, I feel sorry for you.

[Chrischi1988]

So, Crytek isnt a respected 3rd party studio? And actually almost all studios backpedaled on their stance about Wii U is not powerful enough. How comes, that all you fanboys always take news older then what the same studios said afterwards and act like the first is right but the second aint, even though its a newer statement from the same respected people, as you call them.

Crytek is known for their top of the line graphics, which almost everytime they release a new game, you need a top of the line computer to play it at full resolution. I believe in that particular thing, crytek is even more capable of knowing something, as a studio like EA is. And everyone knows, that EA is acting childish, because Nintendo didnt want to implement Origin as their one and only online network for playing games. Why didnt EA demand the same thing from Sony and MS? Just to be fair here, Nintendo had every right to refuse and EA got pissed, but they never demanded it from the other console manufacturers, thats not fair, is it? And then acting childish because of it, bashing the console, not offering any support of games, which they already introduced for Wii U years ago on E3. EA is a mere child mentally. Anyone who doesnt see that, should actually shut up and dont act like they know anything about it.

Ask yourself just one thing: IF Wii U is that bad, how comes EA was so interested in making Origin Wii Us main Onlineplay Network and why is EA so angry about not being able to attain that position on Nintendos console, so they have to play that childish game? The answer is simple, because EA knows Wii U isnt bad at all and saw the Wii U combined with their origin network as something really powerful, powerful enough to take on steam on PCs... just to make you think about some of that.

[D_RoyJenkins]

To sum up your comment, anyone who says something negative about Nintendo is childish right? Got it, let me get back to GTA V and Dragon's Crown

[shuuwai]

why tweak a game just for nintendo?
3rd party games don't sell well, it took the dev 2 console cycles too see this. -_-;;
Gamecube, Wii...

How about they fund and help little studio make games for their console.

Sony is doing it, MS is kinda of doing it. -_-;;

[Brucis]

>3rd party doesn't sell well
http://i.imgur.com/7lvbhzc....

>How about they fund and help little studio make games
W101 and Bayonetta 2.

[shuuwai]

I meant Indie games, no i wasn't attacking nintendo, So 8 indie playable was at E3 for PS4, I wish nintendo did something like that. -_-;;
thanks for photoshop image, Please tell me why 3rd party are not making games for wii u. >.<
Nintendo defends Wii U region locking, makes me sad.

[Hicken]

The problem with your chart is how much of those sales was 3rd party shovelware. The Wii had, arguably, more shovelware than any console in history, and that all sold quite well as a whole, being profitable for the publishers that released the games because the games sold enough to make a profit over the paltry amount of investment put into said games.

Just go to any GameStop and take a look at (what's left of) the Wii wall, and you'll see what I'm talking about.

Individual third party titles don't tend to do well.

Also, Platinum Games isn't really a little studio. Not by reputation, anyway, which is more what shuuwai likely meant.

[Misaka_x_Touma]

that funny
like tell me how No More Heroes did on ps3

[arbitor365]

http://m.ign.com/wikis/xbox...

the wii u is about a fourth as powerful as the competition in almost every single facet and it carries an inferior infrastructure.

blaming the devs is just pathetic and full of damage control. the wii u hardware is hot trash. get over it.

[marloc_x]

Wii U is a tight machine. Do you just scrutinize numbers on paper? Would welcome your Miiverse tag!

[arbitor365]

a "tight" machine? whats that supposed to mean? im not having sex with the damn thing.

Im looking to buy a console that will last 6-7 years. the wii u will not carry next gen games. period. which is why im not wasting my money on it, just to play a bunch of rehashes and last gen experiences

[Klad]

If you don't wanna play last gen experiences, don't buy a PS4 or Xbox One either then, because thats what your gonna get! But anyways, whats wrong with last gen experiences? They were great & will continue to be great, with a few extras on top!

[marloc_x]

HaHA! Thanks for the chuckle arsebitor365!

[Chrischi1988]

You are funny man. This list doesnt even show, where PS4 lacks and where Wii U is good at. Biased list...

[arbitor365]

sorry that you cant handle the facts. the wii u has no advantage over the PS4. none whatsoever

[solidjun5]

Gamingsince75?

[marloc_x]

No advantage?
Mmmm.. well I appreciate the differences of the machines, that's what makes our hobby as fun as it is.

Nintendo has next gen exclusives that I will not be getting on my PS4.

Nintendo encourages me to play online, free..

Miiverse is a fantastic and unique community of gamers. Ninty's own staff including Iwata participate. Some of Google's team were on lately!

Wii U is very good, devs that love their craft will create fantastic games..

And I will still always welcome you on MiiVerse, when you are truly, "HARDCORE";)

[gmgarciam]

You guys do know that shin'en is a second party studio of nintendo right??? so these guys are good developers of course but they also have the advantage of working for nintendo.

[AKR]

If that's the case, then every positive remark Sony Santa Monica and Naughty Dog make about PS4 is biased and shouldn't be taken seriously.

....logic

[MNGamer-N]

Nano Assault new is and AWESOME game. Super fun twin stick shooter reminds me of the old days when you had to have skills at the arcade.

[Junker]

I kinda agree with his statement. Its like a game. People blame the coaches when its really the players

[DivineAssault]

most AAA devs havent even touched it.. They had other companies make the ports wii u has.. If nintendos 1st party exclusives increase the install base substantially, im sure we will see a lot more 3rd party titles get released.. I just hope they arent all ports.. I would like some exclusives from them cuz i know nintendo wont release any M rated content.. Not that games need it to be good but sometimes some violence & all the other stuff is needed to enjoy a console to its fullest.. It feels good to slaughter someone in a game from time to time.. PS4 will provide me with plenty of that but it would be nice to have some on wii u..

[paleselan]

Bayonetta? M rated game by Nintendo.

[DivineAssault]

game by PLATINUM, not nintendo.. Theyre only publishing it.. Platinum, Ubisoft, & Activision are the only companies supporting wii u.. Platinum has no choice but to let nintendo publish cuz no1 else is willing to take the risk.. Ubisoft & activision have so much money coming from everywhere that they dont give a damn if the games sell or not

[MasterCornholio]

Even with weak hardware you can make fantastic looking games however the level of visuals (graphics) is dependent on the consoles hardware.

For example, you can't get a game like GTA V to run on a Nintendo entertainment system because the hardware is to weak to handle a game like that.

The Wii U is more powerful than current gen systems (PS3, Xbox 360 and the Wii) but its still a lot weaker than other next gen systems (XboxOne and PS4) which means that the most graphically intense titles won't be able to run on it due to its slow GPU, slow CPU and 1GB of ram that the system has for games.

But this won't stop the Wii U from having plenty of fantastic 1st party games to play which is the main reason why anyone would buy a Nintendo console.

Nexus 7 2013

[Chrischi1988]

GTA V runs on PS3 and Xbox360... How can u even say something like that, without feeling dumb?

[Nevers0ft]

Shin'en at it's core is a dev team that loves to exploit the hardware, it's in the DNA as many of their team are ex-demoscene coders (as are DICE - some their lead programmers were members of "The Silents" demo group), they see it as a challenge to squeeze every last drop out of a console. They dig deep into the hardware and you only have to look at their back catalogue over the years to see the results. Although there may be a natural bias in their comments because at the end of the day they are a Nintendo exclusive publisher, they know what they're talking about... The Wii U might not be a PS4 or XBone, but it's no slouch.

[thomasmiller]

Bayonetta 2 and monolith's x look better than anything on the ps3 or the 360 has, and the wii u is just going to keep on getting better, regardless what the trolls say, the wii u can do amazing graphics, but hey what ever helps the trolls sleep better at night!

[brewin]

I personally love all my game systems and mostly play my 360 and ps3. However, the Wii U is a stunning piece of hardware when it is utilized properly. Pikmin 3, Zelda, etc all look amazing! I am interested to see if Assassins Creed 4 and Watch Dogs on Wii U are the next gen versions or ports of the 360/ps3 versions. These games could make the haters shut up about the power of the U. It may not have as much raw power as the other next-gen consoles, but it sounds as if it is just using a much different architecture that devs dont yet have a grasp on. Once this all gets figured out the U will be a beast! I cant wait to see what these shin'en guys can do and what Nintendo has in store for 2014! Right when the One and PS4 are going through their droughts, the U will have Mario Kart 8 and Smash Bros. Thats gonna sell a lotta Wii Us.

I still blame Nintendo for this lull and not communicating what the Wii U is, but they will turn it around and become a dominant force in the home console market. They offer something that no other companies can, plain and simple. Its because of this that I am able to bear the wait for the next Xbox and PS systems. Id rather see how thta plays out and wait for sales and bundles this time around. Regardless, its a damn good time to be a gamer, unless youre broke!