PS4 production yields are high, but Xbox One might be in trouble for release day

The huge hit Microsoft took for its faulty Xbox 360 models is still fresh in everyone’s minds, so don’t expect history to repeat itself. The Xbox One is huge and bulky for one reason: cooling. In fact, the cooling system in the new console is effective enough to persuade the engineering team to actually boost the CPU’s speed by 10%. Even if the Xbox One stumbles a bit out of the gate, Microsoft learned its lesson about the necessity of proper cooling and quality control. In spite of the XBOne’s lengthy list of issues, you don’t need to worry about your day one edition catching a bad case of the red ring.

[golding89]

"However, rumor has it that the Xbox One‘s production isn’t going quite so smoothly. Reports came in recently from Asia that Microsoft is lowering its shipment forecast for the fourth quarter. Supposedly, the estimated seven million units has slipped to 6.2 million."

This rumor was shot down a few weeks ago. No news here.

[MonkeyNinja]

Do you have a link?

Also, you're talking about a rumor that was debunked a few weeks ago. Maybe a few weeks ago they (said they) were fine but now they're having issues with BD drive and Kinect like article states.

[mewhy32]

Actually the bone has been in trouble since Feb 2013 and got slaughtered by Don Mattrick at E3.

[vigilante_man]

Old news mixed with Sony's recent comments = nonsense.

Sony just started earlier and will ship more in the same period. They are spreading out their stock around 32 countries.

This does not mean XB1 has hit any problems. It may be slightly more complicated architecture which leads some to believe it may be more likely to encounter yield issues.

Still seems like XB1 will ship 7m and PS4 10m by Mar/Apr 2014 as predicted by both. Enough for all us core gamers!

[GmIsOnPt360]

So in other words the person who posted anti MS article needs no link only person who posted pro MS knfo

[YNWA96]

A positive PS4 story mixed with negative X1 story posted by natureoflogic.... Fanboyism at its best.... Got 1 bubble, give me hell....

@ mastercornholio, get some TP? Also, ripped apart by neogaf, the greatest loser site there is, where people hide behind profiles and spew shit all day long...

[jackanderson1985]

If two MS staff who are involved with console development (not Nelson he's just a PR head) say production is fine it's heralded as complete bullshit and they're only saying it cuz they're MS staff.

however if two sony execs say the exact same thing it's herald as news from the mouth of god himself?

even at the rumored lower yields for MS a 6.2mil shipping isn't bad considering 360 sales in it's first 8 weeks launching only sold 1.5 and it took nearly 8 full months for it to reach 5mil in sales... 6.2 isn't a bad number

if combined console sales exceed 10 mil before February i'll be truely shocked

[Ritsujun]

More 180's are coming to the Xbone180, POOR conSOUL.

[MonkeyNinja]

@ jackanderson1985

"...if two sony execs say the exact same thing it's herald as news from the mouth of god himself?"

How many times has Sony been caught lying to us (the consumer)?

And how many times has Microsoft been caught lying to us?

That's why many more people trust Sony over Microsoft.

[jackanderson1985]

@monkeyninja

sony have lied about alot of things in the past, same with MS and same with every company ever.

it's usually why these companies hire decent PR companies to handle these sorts of things so their own execs don't get caught out.

have sony lied about the PS4 this time around? probably not but hell we don't know what's going on in the background they could be yanking our chain on alot of items that'll only come to light 1, 2 or even 5 years down the line.

MS got a shitty PR show case to the xbox one, they clearly kept their main PR dude out of the loop about the DRM stuff, penello likes to talk but i doubt he knows half of what he's saying and is just regurgitating it from memory and i dunno if yusef has been caught lying yet (suppose you could point to the initial reveal as lying since it was pre-recorded but hey people expect those sorta things now)

so to sum it up Sony's PR has been on the ball while MS's seems like they've had a few too many whiskeys, fallen down the stairs and think they're in Tallahassee

also seeing as this is my last bubble if you do happen to direct a Q at me as alotta users do and then go "ha he doesn't have a reply to that" i usually would reply but alas the bubble system prevents me from doing such a thing.

[MonkeyNinja]

Shills are so annoying. Go away.

[Retroman]

a buddy of mine who work for MS a engineer on x1 technology those RUMORS are true. he said is MS trying to cover-up bluray, kinect issues.

[ma1asiah]

@ MonkeyNinja

A Little History lesson for you:

"Most people, I think, don't even know what a rootkit is, so why should they care about it?"
- Thomas Hesse, Sony BMG's president of global digital business, responding to the outcry over Sony's DRM Rootkit spyware uncovered on its music CDs

A quote from Sony in 2007: "We have a very different approach to exclusives than some of our competitors," he continued. "We don't buy exclusivity. We don't fund development. We don't, for lack of a better term, bribe somebody to only do a game on our platform."
http://www.eurogamer.net/ar...

Now take a look at this from 2009 titled "Sony Will Pay Devs for PSN Exclusivity": "Sony has declared a willingness to back up its aspirations for exclusive content with cold, hard cash. Its Pub Fund, just announced today, will match developer funding for exclusive games headed to the PSN."
http://www.ps3informer.com/...

"We're certainly not interested in Gimmicks."
- Kaz Hirai0 E32k6, right before showing off Eye of Judgement.

"I believe that the Sixaxis controller offers game designers and developers far more opportunity for future innovation than rumble ever did. Now, rumble I think was the last generation feature; it's not the next-generation feature."
http://www.1up.com/news/son...

The real reason the Sixaxis had no "rumble" and was later discontinued in favor of the DS3, was because Sony were being sued by the company Immersion over patent rights. Sony lost to the tune of about $90 million. Sony insisted [at the time] that the lawsuit had nothing to do with why the Sixaxis was lacking "rumble", something we now know was a lie as the DS3 was announced shortly after the lawsuit settlement.
http://www.engadget.com/200...

Reasons as to why you should never trust any company

Both MS and SONY are capable of PR spin when it suits their own interest don't think SONY is above lying for their own gains.

[Muerte2494]

by Ablert Penello and Yusuf Mehdi, both who are Microsoft employees. I also remember a Microsoft employee saying: "DRM isn't something that can just flipped on and off like switch." Yet here were months later and no DRM. Microsoft has proven more than anything that their words cannot be trusted. "Specs on paper don't matter." Yet all we've been hearing are number trying to paint their machines as "just as good as" PS4.

[Regis]

Well we would know the said employees name unless you are talking about major nelson

[hellzsupernova]

agreed! funny how sony has been so quiet about all these power rumours just letting killzone and infamous speak for themselves while Microsofts launch titles get torn apart (Ryse im looking at you)

[wynams]

If PS4 performance superiority is myth (as Microsoft and developers such as id's Carmack have stated ad nauseum) then please answer this:

Why has the #XboxOne had 2 overclocks since #E3?

[Muerte2494]

What I find funny is that when John Carmack was asked about which console he preferred out of Xbox360 and PS3, he said Xbox360. He didn't have a problem declaring Xbox360's alleged superiority then.
Now even though PS4 is clearly more powerful than Xbox One, Carmack's response is : " They are pretty much the same." Granted they have similar architecture, PS4 has more raw power. Why is he so reluctant so say PS4 is better?

[KYU2130]

I disagree. MS has been hyping the XB1 as far superior to the PS4.

[dmeador]

The logic of so many pro-Sony peeps on this site is hilarious.

@Muerte
They realize how much people are caught up on numbers, and thats all your hearing about if thats all your listening for. And you are pretty confused if you think the big changes on MSs part didn't entail many people working for long hours to make things happen.

@hellzsupernova
Sony has said time and time again they have the superior console, hardly quiet. They are simply keeping a lower profile, bc they are afraid they will rock the boat.

@wynams
Horrible logic. So if the PS4 had increased its power since E3 then that proves that they are the under powered system?

@Muerte again
Cant remember the cognitive bias this is, but you are assuming he is biased on his choice for the X1 vs PS4, based on you believing one is superior

@KYU2130
Say you work for MS pr.... thats kinda your job. I would think the product you have made is going to be shown off as better than the direct competitor

[Deltaohio]

@wynams
If you were building a console that was half fan and have electronics wouldn't you want to push your system further? There is nothing wrong with getting a few extra MHz out of a machine. Forget the competition you just want more power. The games at E3 before the up clocks looked just as good as any PS4 game.

[abusador]

Give it up already stealth troll, your embarrassing and corny. Your lame agenda is conspicuous. Take those 20 free microsoft points and call itba day or go join major bshi%%er and pendejo in gaf lol

[ZHZ90]

I don't trust Albert Panello and Major Nelson.

[windblowsagain]

Xboxone may be fine, who knows.

But it was rushed forward because of SONY.

[NoLongerHereCBA]

Golding89 is actually telling the truth. This has been posted over a week (maybe 2) ago. Don't see why he is getting negative votes.

[MasterCornholio]

"by Ablert Penello and Yusuf Mehdi, both who are Microsoft employees."

I dont know about Yusuf but you cant trust Panello because he was just caught lying to posters on Neogaff with all the BS that he posted.

[Qrphe]

>the truth

Well, ain't that so easy to get all the time and guarantee

[Muerte2494]

@VaizardNL,

Here is where people on the neogaf come in handy. The only major difference between PS4's architecture and Xbox One's is the memory and GPU. Everything else is pretty much the same. Sony is having phenomenal yields yet Microsoft is cutting the launch market by over 34%. I sure you remember earlier reports of esRAM causing yield issues. There is no other conclusion you can draw from it.

Bullet points
* Similar architecture to PS4 except for EsRAM
* Rumors claiming yield issues due to EsRAM
* PS4 not having yield issues
* Xbox One only launching in 13 markets (-34%)instead of 21
* Ps4 launching in 32 markets (>60% more than Xbox One)
* Gamestop capping Xbox One's pre-orders
* No solid launch date for other markets aside from slimmed down 13

There are literally too many things pointing to the yield issues with EsRAM. Even though it was a rumor, every move Microsoft has made since seems to support it more than debunk it. Open to any arguments people may have with my presentation.

[NoLongerHereCBA]

It could be true, but it could also not be true. My response was more to the fact that this news is just a rehash of old news together with the new PS4 news.

I think there are more differences between the PS4 and the Xbox One than just the GPU and RAM, but the PS4 is definitely more like a standard PC, which will make it less prone to yield issues.

I have to wait till next year anyway, so I don't mind :)

[jackanderson1985]

Neogaf gets alotta things wrong aswell just to highlight... didn't they come out with a list of things recently about MS that proved to be false?

[THC CELL]

Sound to me xbone might of.been rushed rlod. Might happen again. Let's hope not

[kneon]

Lower yields and higher failure rates are not necessarily related. In fact they could have lower yields because they are doing more rigorous testing to avoid high failure rates.

I expect the Xbox One to be the more reliable next gen console because Microsoft knows that they can't survive another RROD fiasco.

[jmc8888]

But that doesn't mean they'll be successful.

The time aspect is always the most crucial for reliability.

They can add whatever steps they wish by analyzing a past product production process, but this is a new one, and they are rushing it.

All bets are off for anything rushed, and this puppy is.

[jackanderson1985]

if you looked into the causes of the RROD you'd realise that the likelihood of it occuring again are slim to none. hell how many of the newer xbox 360s have this failure rate?

[jmc8888]

Your logic makes no sense.

Why did the 360 have a RRoD if the Xbox didn't have it?

You simply can't go off past products to determine a future.

What you can say, is that like the 360, the Xbox One is horribly rushed.

Being horribly rushed is what caused faulty things to make it into production and past QA.

Thus is THIS crucial aspect the same or different from the 360? The same.

The new 360 models or the old ones or any in between have nothing to do with the Xbox One. It's a different product. Using different components. In different configurations. Using a new OS...so on and so forth.

The only thing you LEARN about a new production line, comes when you start producing in that new line. Rushing stunts that learning.

So you can't compare apples to oranges, this is completely different.

It's a new roll of the dice. Their QA has a whole new situation where it can pass or fail. But they are rushing it, which doesn't help.

[TheGreatGamer]

Old news and nothing to worry about, I honestly don't think xbone has enough demand for microsoft to run into any supply issues

[kewlkat007]

Another Article by this guy..where is it that Ms's is having issues?

[Deadpoolio]

Which issue would you like to look at;

The one about the 32mb of eSRAM frying the GPU from overclocking.
The one where the chips that run the Kinect are frying.
Or The one about the blu ray drive crapping out.

It makes sense that they are having issues to anyone who isn't a delusional Xbot. They cut 21 countries down to 13, claiming localization issues. Then out of 13 only 5 will have fully functioning consoles/Kinect. That makes no sense, when you say you cut8 countries off of 21, it sounded like the other 13 were supposed to be fine.

The supposedly got their FCC certs before Sony, yet are just now beginning production, since Major Microsoft felt the need to tweet pics of the "first" consoles off the line.

And lastly Sony actually hands you an oppertunity to launch before NOV 15th yet you choose to launch after, Not that I buy into the "cause the 360 launched on Nov 22nd 2006". I would bet it's because they're having issues and rushing now to catch up....But the delusional can choose to believe whatever they want there are just too many red flags that don't really make sense

[AAWELLS09]

Hey can you provide links to each issue?

[01animeking]

i don't think they're prepared for a novemember released

[Deadpoolio]

I don't think they are either. There are too many flags and anyone who isn't delusional xbots have actually noticed. i.e. Only 5 countries having full functioning Kinect at launch, after cutting 21 to 13 countries.

Supposedly them having their FCC cert before Sony...IF that were true why exactly are they just now starting production, unless there were issues that needed to be fixed or there are still issues. The tweeting pics of the first consoles off the line and first palette just seemed desperate...

Something just isn't right at Microsoft, I have no desire to get one until I know were not looking at another epic 55% failure rate, but I wouldn't wish those problems even on the most delusional Xbots, even IF they don't have the common sense to question the warning signs

[BoriboyShoGUN]

Exactly all signs point to the XBOX being rushed out. Every dam gamestop i hear about has 2 to 3 times the PS4's for launch. I just hope you XBOX guys dont end up getting screwed!!!!

[MASTER_RAIDEN]

microsoft was planning on shipping 7mil to asia? thats 6mil too many. nobody in the middle east bothers with xbox. and japan? hah...

but anyway, im sure their production is actually going just fine. just a bunch of baseless rumors. would honestly hate to give them an excuse to have lower launch sales. if youre gonna get crushed by the ps4 come launch, dont pretend like it was because you had trouble at the ol' xbox factory. calling it.

[vigilante_man]

The 7m is worldwide by the end of this financial year (Mar/Apr 2014). Sony are said to be aiming for 10m in the same timeframe (rumours of 16m sound a bit high).

[Deadpoolio]

You do actually realize they aren't baseless right? just based off the fact alone that Major Microsoft claims they got their FCC certs before Sony, yet they are just now 1 week ago starting production...Why? Sony has been producing consoles since July.....

Look you may not want to face facts, but obviously something is wrong. There is NO way you get your FCC certs but wait till September to start production for a console your launching in November.....They even felt the need to tweet those pics

They even had a perfect opportunity to launch before Nov 15th, but because they're most likely not ready they're launching a week later.....

Sony is looking at shipping 16 mil at launch MS 6 mil down from 7. Again, Why? 21 launch countries cut to 13, citing localization issues. They why out of 13 are only 5 going to have a fully functional Kinect....

There is just so much to question and wonder about, unless your a blind delusional Microsoft fanboy, who refuses to question the great and mighty Microsoft, who has a history of knowingly releasing defective hardware, i.e. 360 had a 55% failure rate for the first 4 years, and every hardware iteration had a different issue after that. Something is wrong whether they want to admit it or not, either there are issues or there were issues that kept them from starting production till September

[Mr_Danski]

MS has said to have had yield troubles for like 3 months now. This wouldn't surprise me tbh.

[Belking]

Xbox-one is fine. Don't believe then hype. ps4 yields are high because it's tech is more off the shelf pc than xbox. xbox-one is much more customized.

[Angels3785]

Last I checked gddr5 isn't off the shelf PC....Neither is a custom clocked gpu and a completely open arcitecture where the cpu and the gpu can access memory.....no pc can access memory simultaneously....

Plus....last gen the ps3's cell was a highly customized cpu that ran SPE's rather than the traditional cores...but you weren't making excuses for the ps3.....and you denied the fact that the cell more than made up for the slightly weaker gpu in the ps3.... double standards at their finest....well done Belking.

Lastly there is no evidence to suggest xbox one is highly customized any more than the ps4. Its got its overclocks and esram and the dgpu thing is debunked...unless you are a misterx follower....in that case god help you.

[BoriboyShoGUN]

Dam Belking your Hilarious!!!!!!!
I tell you no matter what it is you try and spin it to a XBOX positive. Oh the XBOX is so much more customized thats why, "I love my AA batteries" my god man! Geez by all means purchase what you like but you dont have to be a mindless zombie sucking the XBOX juice GEEEZUSSSS!!!

[abusador]

U sound crazier and more needy by the day. Im starting to believe your the kayle under a diff. Name, he was talking gibberish like u until the xbox one specs were released and he feltbdumb and had a meltdown lol Now his gaf sn says "ive seen the light" lol

[PFFT]

@angels3785

Perhaps GDDR5 isnt BUT everything else is off shelf.
So expect bottlenecks galore.

[SilentGuard]

Yet another example how Kinect is going to ruin the One. $100 more expansive due to its inclusion. Lower spec and less powerful console due to investing in development of Kinect and to keep price down. Delayed release in many countries due to voice control issues. Now it is causing production problems. MS heavy emphasis on Kinect and requiring it with every console is the XBOne's Achilles Heal. In a year or two MS studios will probobly go back to pushing Kinect exclusives when they find out 3rd party developers won't.
But hey, at least we can all have the magical experience of turning our console on by saying "Xbox On."

[younglj01]

Personally I think Microsoft meant to release Xbox One an week or two before Christmas,but with Sony announcing an November release I don't think MS wanted too allow an month head start...

There might be issues with the first patch of consoles and I think waiting until March-May of next year will be when they have everything fixed if there is problems with the Xbox One...

[stuna1]

Why would Microsoft want to release 1 to 2 weeks before Christmas, and miss out on Black Friday!? We're talking about the 1 and only major time that's guaranteed to move consoles.

Obvious you have read more into my comment than was there! So pray do tell since I am concerned clueless!

[younglj01]

If you really think Black Friday played an factor on their release then you will be concerned clueless.Also releasing on the same day of the 360 is also an ploy.

Personally they should have released it on the same day of CoD:Ghost but it seems like you know more about this topic then I do...

[dmeador]

@youngglj01
You cant be serious. You dont release a major product at the end of the biggest shopping season of the year, and have half of your first month out right after people have spent a good chunk of their discretionary income. Yes he does know more than you by default. You are right though, it is an evil secret ploy by MS to release it on the anniversary of the 360.

[Funantic1]

Rumors. Come on people use common sense. Once they have started the schematics of production there's nothing that can stop that but parts shortages/ defects, high demands on sales, or manufacturing machinery failure. This article really makes no sense. First it says MS is cutting back production, then it's the Blu-ray and Kinect issues. So which one is it? I suppose fanboys will say all 3. Lol. Get out of here. I'll have one regardless.

[KYU2130]

Just to clarify, the XBone doesnt have a ring like last the 360. Its a circle, so if the systems catches anything it will catch a case of the red eye!! unless the the error LED is pink(pink eye)

[urwifeminder]

As long as my xbone arrives I will be happy have no concern for other gamers their Cheetos can go stale for all I care.

[Volkama]

Yields are typically a lot lower on cutting edge technology. I'm sure both consoles are fine :-/

[jay2]

GOOD!

[kingPoS]

I'm curious as to how Sony managed to make the PS4 as small as it is.

Can't wait to see a tear down in two months.

[Campy da Camper]

Man, can you imagine someone coming up to you on launch day and saying, "excuse me. May we use your console as a tear down so we can make a video?"

MINE. MINE. MINE. MINE.

[MultiConsoleGamer]

Agenda piece. Opinion from someone who has no idea what's going on inside MS. Front page of n4g.

This is definitely getting old.

[abusador]

So are the executive responses tht are even less credible given all the lies microsoft has been caught in through the years, sttarting with the worst one in gaming history when thy denied rrod publicly, knowing damn well thy tested xbix 360 and saw the huge failure rate.

Major nelson, penello, the kinect lame andball the others lie and blow smoke frecuently, its embarrassing.

[MRMagoo123]

I dont think anyone but complete fanatics believe anything MS says anymore, look at penellos specs thread in Gaf lol the guy knows less about how the components work than me ffs, why have a spokesmen that has no clue how the insides work tell ppl how they work lol.

[deadfrag]

X1 haves a gigantic yield inside so its more natural that they get bad yields!Another thing in respect to J.Carmack words,he told that he didnt benchmark anyone of the new consoles yet,and the reson he stated that the two are pretty much the same is related to the physic hardware inside the two systems.

[Ivel88]

this posting is to how everyone above was talking about MS lies and sony only speaks truth fact of the matter both lie but here is a link for all you that think sony is squeaky clean and then consider some of the things sony has said because there could be a repeat in certain areas. http://www.wired.com/gameli...

[dmeador]

I'm going to have to bookmark this for the certain argument that always is brought up by Sony fanboys. Bubbbles

[redwin]

Lol, problems with the blue ray. That's Sony sticking it to Microsoft again.

[PFFT]

Good for Sony and its horde.

[richie007bond]

Feek me another BS story, both consoles will do well X1 preordered and payed , 2014 ill buy a ps4 games matter first and foremost.

[CuddlyREDRUM]

All I care about is if Amazon has my launch edition PS4 shipped to me day one. The more consoles there are around this Holiday the better for everyone.

[jmc8888]

Why are people such morons that they say there will be no red ring of death this time around?

You mean they can say with certainty, that because they made a better cooling, there won't be a big flaw that gets overlooked because they were rushed somewhere in the system because like with the 360, they are currently in a major rush.

Not every 'rush' overlooks problems, but almost every problem was overlooked because they were 'rushed'.

Thus what is the most important aspect beyond the actual design? The timeframe which it can be properly tested...i.e. rushing it.

Great that they seemed to have learned lessons, but why anyone still says some other problem overlooked due to rush can't crop up is a bit asinine.

Maybe they get lucky that the rush doesn't impact them. Obviously this would be best for everyone who buys one. But why people can be so sure based off nothing but faulty logic is another subprime and derivatives meltdown just waiting to happen.

People just can't say, they put in more cooling, and no regulations changed the solder and thus there will be no issues. They are rushing it, and perhaps something else falls through the cracks. Maybe it's some disc drive problem. Maybe it some wonky ethernet...maybe the wireless portion will be have a flaw. Who knows. But when you rush, you don't have the time to properly test, especially during a production run, all the components of a console.

Any console can have problems, but the ones that are rushed, seem to have the most problems, and Xbox One is the epitome of rush.