Two, three GPU's. Let's end this.

Let me start this off by saying I would normally never make a blog.

I had a user send me a personal message I simply could not ignore, after the Xbox One rumors of having multiple GPU's being confirmed to not be true and as if Microsoft giving a descriptive layout of the actual APU and GPU structure wasn't enough before that either. I still have people sending me personal messages trying to say otherwise.

Anyway I had someone send this message just today, telling me to wait until the 30th, you will be proven wrong.. The same NDA nonsense. Not only that but claiming it has three GPU's, not just two, capable of achieving a total of 4.26 Teraflops altogether. As if it couldn't get any crazier, they of course used an off screen image of the GPU diagram but just wait, that is not all. You might be asking yourself how did they come up with such a ridiculous number..?

http://semiaccurate.com/201...

Well I will explain, what really blew my mind about this one particular message is what this person was saying, they were making up numbers that didn't even exist in this diagram. The diagram they were claiming to be reading from.

They claimed that the larger squares were all graphics processors. This is what they said to me and this is a direct untouched quote.

"grafix processer 1 = 1.95 tflops = orange square( Likely 2 DPUs working together with a cpu core or two to manage 1 probably for physics 1 for straight grafix)

Graffix processer 2 = gpgpu = 1.31 tflops = pink square (jag cores working with 12 cus for gpgpu in main soc)

Graffix processer 3 = 1 tflop= yellow square (Likely 2 more DPUs(dedicated Processing Units) working together, one for 1 rendering 1 for shading, also working with some cpu for management)"

The only square they were able to get right was the the pink one, the actual main GPU that says 1.31 teraflops. Which has been known for a long time now to be the only GPU.

So I provided them with this picture, a direct image of the diagram. One that is not off screen and much easier for them to read.

https://semiaccurate.com/as...

Let me ask you people, do you see three GPU's or only one? Do you see anything else besides one box that lists the amount of teraflops achieved for the GPU? I see one again. Even in the presentations off screen image, it says and I quote "GPU & GPU MMU Clients" GPU is singular, not plural.

Another thing is do people even know what an APU is? This is what an APU is, please read up on it. Here is a diagram of AMD's APU's.

http://eecatalog.com/caciuf...

All these people are assuming because Microsoft showed that split ESRAM, CPU and GPU diagram.. That it has some secret GPU and its different.. What many of you don't understand that is what an APU is.. All Microsoft did was add ESRAM.. See Microsoft's diagram.

http://cdn3.wccftech.com/wp...

Stacking chips is nothing new, shouldn't amaze you now with how similar it is to AMD's regular APU diagram. Its just hard for me to believe I still have people messaging me about this. When so much proof is out there that completely goes against it all.

So I cannot wait until the 30th, I thought when an actual employee of Microsoft dismissed this it would be enough but sadly far from it.

[EXVirtual]

I had a user send me this BS too. It's funny how they only brought this crap up after the dGPU rumor was confirmed false. Great blog and yeah, I can't wait for the 30th either.

[darthv72]

i really dont know what is supposed to happen on the 30th. I get that is the day the NDA's are supposed to be up but what more is there to really find out about the system(s)?

Both Ms and Sony know not to show their hand right away. its like a game of poker, each one thinks they have a better hand and sony has the better poker face because they havent really gone full bore into revealing every minute detail about their system.

MS on the other hand has been talking and talking and people interpret what they hear and twist it to fit their agenda and then it gets all out of context and .....etc.

Does it really matter if there is 1 more or less pixel on the screen? Realistically, both are creating attainable platforms...not concepts that are out of the realm of possibility.

People will find justification in their platform purchase regardless of what anyone else says or does. For me, my justification is the games. Always has always will be. I have never denied myself the opportunity to play games on any platform because of policy or specs or mob mentality.

I will be here on the 30th and when the NDA's drop and nothing new is revealed (or even if there is) can we stop the childish behavior and get back to talking about the games.

Pretty please...with sugar on top.

[Keregan]

First of all, who the heck are you ? For someone who wants to dismiss all the research done surrounding all this bandwagon 3gpu stuff you don't bring much arguments do you ? That lead me to believe you didn't read all the blog on this and that you don't have much knowledge on the subject. You gotta work on you credibility dude.

P.S. Why the heck does a guy use a female avatar ????

[PrimeGrime]

What the..? Firstly what are you even talking about?

"you didn't read all the blog on this and that you don't have much knowledge on the subject"

Who is anymore credible around here? We all all in the same gaming site, is Microsoft not enough credibility for you? Their own employees? It has nothing to do with my personal credibility but using common sense.

Also what does my avatars have to do with any of this? Firstly my account doesn't even specify my gender so why even bring that up? Secondly these pictures are of musicians that I like to listen to? Is there some harm in that, I didn't know we were going on a date or meeting up in person later.

This isn't facebook. It is n4g.

[pixelsword]

My avatar is a sword. I offend swords when they find out I'm not one.

[Enemy]

Hey Keregan, this isn't a personal attack, but I hope you realize that your post comes off as if it was written by a butthurt child.

Who is PrimeGrime? He's like us- an N4G user, and he has plenty of valuable information to back up his argument in this blog. Instead of keeping your cool and having a genuine discussion, you question his credibility as if you had anything better to say. You didn't, and don't. Your post just gave away where you stand in this whole thing.

A better question, we could all agree, is who the hell are you, and why did you even bother posting here? You wasted everyone's time. It's as if the blog personally hurt so bad (because you know it's true) that you went even as far as to nonsensically and irrelevantly attack his avatar for no reason.

If you really want to talk about avatars:

1. You don't even have one. You're faceless and have no personality.

2. What do you have against females? Are they not attractive? Are they not people? They're easier on the eyes than males are. But you'd rather see a male. We're getting somewhere now...

3. Elaborate on why you'd rather see a male avatar. You're almost there.

[Software_Lover]

Why don't you guys list the name, if the person sent you the PM's? It would make it easier for us to determine what is going on. I dont believe, nor do I care, if it has 2 gpu's or not, but it seems as if we have a serial PMer here. Determining who it is (new member, old member, respected member) goes a long way.

[PrimeGrime]

Really I have to call out names like a child and point fingers? I thought it would be much more mature to leave the persons user name out of this who said that especially in a blog.. That makes my blog more credible? Calling out n4g user names? You have to be kidding me.

Hell if it makes you any happier PM me, I will send you the entire message that was sent to me and that persons name in a personal message to you. You can even PM that person and talk to them about it yourself to see I am not lying.

What you think I just made that up. The entire point of the blog is show how delusional people are being about this.

I am not going to call out names in blogs though, it does nothing.

[Software_Lover]

I'm gonna say this.........

If you had kept it to yourself and just dealt with it in PM I would agree with you but you are contradicting yourself.

If it was important enough, and it got under your skin so bad, as you say, that you had to make a blog about it, then post who did it. It's that simple. I'm not asking for people to start posting every pm they get, but when you make a blog about a PM, why not put who posted it to you?

[PrimeGrime]

Or better yet like I told Convas if that isn't even enough for you I will take a screen shot of the entire conversation and send it to you with a PM. If you seriously feel that makes some difference which it doesn't.

So if you want to waste your time further with nonsense like I said PM me and I will send it all to you. As if the persons name is that important anyway.

[AfterThought]

From what I read this was not specifically about abuse in PM's. So I also am not quite understanding why the persons name is going prove anything other than they sent a PM. It was about the ridiculous nature of the PM's sent and how insane some Xbox fans are being about all this misinformation.

Determine what I have to ask. All you would determine is that a person sent a message to them. This blog to me seemed to be about about rumors and why they are not true. Not labeling people who send messages to each other.

[Enemy]

@ Software_Lover: If I pulled up the list of people that have similarly threatened me via PM, exposing them on these comment sections hardly solves anything.

The ongoing problem is denial of facts. Microsoft themselves have debunked the rumor. If that's not enough, then what is?

A random, misinformed forum poster claiming "but but wait for September 30th" is clearly a more credible response these days.

We will wait for September 30th, and what happens on that day will be unrelated to the wishful fan thoughts hoping that a bunch of GPU stacks are hidden deep inside the Xbox One.

[Software_Lover]

But you haven't made a blog about a SPECIFIC person PMing you. He has. Right now, this blog is not responding to that PM, its responding to the entire N4G community.

If someone sent me a PM (first of all I only respond to 1 out of 10 pm's) I would not make a blog about whatever It was. But if I felt the need to make a blog, from a PM, you can bet I would let that person on blast.

sidenote: There seems to be the misconception that I don't believe him. I never said that.

[pyramidshead]

All rumours like this tend to end up coming solely from one misterx blog who has a massive track record of being horrendously fanboy-centric(and people say sony fanboys are bad, read some of the comments on that site, holy shit), and more importantly WRONG. There is a long list of interesting claims he's shouted from the tops of mountains only to be proven wrong time and time again, I can't see how anyone can still believe his spchiel.

[mkis007]

Never again will I read a post on that. I kept reading thinking it was video games version of the onion. but no...they really believe themselves. Ugh it needs to be over.

[GodGinrai]

*sighs*

How will you feel after the 30th when no mention is made of this? Or in december when somebody opens one up and takes a look at its guts and the publishes their findings online?

Let. It. Go.

EDIT: Ms have the money and resources to make the most powerful console..but they wanted profit from day one, so they cheaped out on some chips. They only have themselves to blame for this whole "whos more powerful" pissing contest. They should have taken sony more seriously. They should have taken gamers more seriously.

[Persistantthug]

Microsoft Corp has virtually unlimited amounts of money....

But Microsoft GAMES does not.

[Convas]

What kind of rebuttal is this? You've done nothing to explain to us WHY this information is suspect.

The very SAME SemiAccurate source you're quoting has this to say about the Xbox One GPU:

The GPU block is where things start to get really interesting to the point where calling it only GPU is almost a misnomer. Graphics are by far the majority of the transistors here but there are at least seven other blocks in that area. The exact count is a bit nebulous though, Microsoft claims “15 special purpose co-processors” not counting the CPUs and GPUs, eight of which are audio. That would leave seven for the rest of the system and those should end up in the GPU block. SemiAccurate knows that there are several important sub-systems in the XBO that are not on the diagrams or in the talk but we are not sure if the 15 count includes them or not.

There are components that are PURPOSEFULLY unlabeled and unexplained in the diagram. You're entire argument is bunk.

[PrimeGrime]

What are you talking about also? You people can't get anymore delusional can you?

"There are components that are PURPOSEFULLY unlabeled and unexplained in the diagram. You're entire argument is bunk."

I didn't purposefully do anything, these are images from the actual presentation, one even clearly a off screen image of the projection shown at the conference by Microsoft. The other just a more detailed image, showing it more clearly.

Off screen presentation GPU diagram image http://semiaccurate.com/201...

Detailed presentation GPU diagram image https://semiaccurate.com/as...

Everything is labeled and explained. I seriously have no idea what you are talking about, like I altered this to support my argument? You can find every image on your own as well. Everything provided here is either by AMD or Microsoft.

http://semiaccurate.com/201...

http://semiaccurate.com/201...

The title from the GPU structure presentation is "GPU & GPU MMU Clients" What else is there to explain? That is a diagram of the actual GPU in the APU, Every component is detailed and has an explanation in those diagrams.

Did you "PURPOSEFULLY" not pay attention the presentation or diagrams at all? Are you as blind as the person who tried sending me this message in the first place, making up information that didn't even exist in the diagram?

You look just as absurd as the person who sent me that crazy message claiming the Xbox One's GPU can reach 4.26 Teraflops...

Hell if you don't believe me, that someone did send this to me, PM me like I said above to others. I will gladly send you the name, the message, hell I will even take a full screenshot of the conversation and send it to you in a PM.

[Convas]

"Everything is labeled and explained. I seriously have no idea what you are talking about, like I altered this to support my argument? You can find every image on your own as well. Everything provided here is either by AMD or Microsoft."

Wow. Did you even read my post? What has happened to reading comprehension on this site?

I didn't accuse you of doing a damn thing, I said the sources you are using to corroborate your argument are actually WORKING AGAINST you.

I said that there are parts of the GPU diagram that are unlabeled and straight up missing AS DETAILED by SemiAccurate and a few other tech sites that broke down the Xbox One Hotschips presentation.

SemiAccurate states in plain english that EVERYTHING IS NOT LABELLED AND EXPLAINED, THAT THERE ARE THINGS THAT ARE NOT EVEN INCLUDED IN THE DIAGRAM. That's the mystery here.

How you can be using them as a way to say that the diagrams clearly explain and define everything when I've given you a quote from them confirming that there are missing and unexplained details on the released information, is beyond my comprehension.

Again, READ MY POST. Your reactionary response is clearly one that has not weighed all the facts.

Hell, I post it again.

Semi|Accurate: The GPU block is where things start to get really interesting to the point where calling it only GPU is almost a misnomer. Graphics are by far the majority of the transistors here but there are at least seven other blocks in that area. The exact count is a bit nebulous though, Microsoft claims “15 special purpose co-processors” not counting the CPUs and GPUs, eight of which are audio. That would leave seven for the rest of the system and those should end up in the GPU block. SemiAccurate knows that there are several important sub-systems in the XBO that are not on the diagrams or in the talk but we are not sure if the 15 count includes them or not.

TL;DR: Microsoft is holding back descriptions and information about the Xbox One's GPU block. How hard is this to understand?

[PrimeGrime]

"TL;DR: Microsoft is holding back descriptions and information about the Xbox One's GPU block. How hard is this to understand?"

Clearly pretty hard for you given that they gave a complete diagram of the GPU's structure like I previously said.

Alright see you on the 30th then like every one else.

You are the one who seems to have a failing degree of comprehensive reading skills. I completely understood what you said, the problem is you didn't even understand the blog in general but want to talk about reading comprehension.. This had nothing to do with what a site said, people or you said. It had to do with what Microsoft has said, proven and shown in these diagrams including the fact even when they crush this rumor to bits about the multiple GPU's.. You seriously have the nerve to say Microsoft is holding back information still...? Really?

Oh let me guess this so called non-disclosure agreement right, this thing where supposedly the Xbox One is even certified by the FCC already but there is so much hidden information left to be known about it? Good god, you people are off your rocker.

You are not getting anything of what I have said here and are jumping in the pool with every other idiot claiming that we all have to wait until the 30th. Microsoft is hiding everything, they can't show it now because they have a NDA..

This is so ridiculous already. Whatever, like I said. I'll be here on the 30th and unlike you many of you which I know can't admit you are wrong, I will gladly even save a bubble for this blog, just to come back and say I am sorry for being so wrong about this if it somehow ends up being true, which is impossible at this point.

So I'll be here. I just hope you are cause a lot of you people seem to just run and hide once something doesn't go your way.

[OldGirl]

People don't seem to be understanding anything here.

I read all the comments and the blog thoroughly.

It isn't about what SemiAccurate said, its about what Microsoft has said about the Xbox One. You people or these sites can make up all the stuff you would like but they are not Microsoft (which is the huge problem with the Xbox One) but Microsoft on their own has given detailed specifications on their system showing it does not contain anymore than one graphics processing unit.

Not about hidden parts or secrets. It is about what has been proven to be in the Xbox One. That is the main problem sites and uneducated users making up random information when Microsoft has given enough detail on this for a 5th grader to be able to understand. People are still beating this horse raw even when it has been proven by the company to be nothing but more rumors.

You know as much flip flopping that Microsoft has done, they did say one thing that made a lot of sense.

"Ha, don't believe everything you read!"

A lot of you should take note stop trying to create something out of nothing, just let this rumor die already. Absolutely incredible to see some here defending it after all this.

[wtopez]

I thought it was 8 GPU machine running @ 16 GiggaHurtz.

[MRMagoo123]

There will be something new made up about the xbone after the 30th and it will be a wait till release day thing instead, they will say there is some patch you have to download to unlock the power of the xbone and it turns into a 4gpu super xbone. It is getting really silly when the xboners dont even believe the guys from MS.

[memots]

then its wait for E3 then gamescon ....

[Kayant]

Great blog. Wanted to also add something - At about 5:49 of this video ---> http://www.engadget.com/201...

This is what a MS engineer had to say about the XB1's architecture

"We don't target the highest end graphics but more of a broaden entertainment play" They focused more on the IP they got with AMD. Obviously that makes sense because neither did Sony it wouldn't make sense in a console because it would be too expensive.

So how the XB1 is supposed to be around a 4+ TF machine is stupid. A GPU alone of equivalent power cost £580/$650. With that MS will never make a profit considering XB1 is only $500/£429 and we know they have stated they should be able to make a profit from day one.