Microsoft's Penello: No way is Xbox One giving up 30% power advantage to PS4

XMNR: Much of the focus in the console war between the PS4 and Xbox One has been the perceived power advantage Sony's console has over Microsoft's. Following a published interview with Rev3Games Thursday, Microsoft Director of Product Planning Albert Penello explained why there's no way the company is willing to give the competition a huge performance advantage.

[abc1233]

"Penello then brought up similar instances where Sony and fans of the Playstation proclaimed superior performance with the PS2 and PS3 before concluding that, "in the end, games on our system looked the same or better."

Haha, four words: The Last of Us.

[cl1983]

Your comparing an exclusive to what?

@ abc below

He stated the games on both systems looked the same or better, I'll go ahead and mention Gears because they all had the same type of shading, quite frankly I dislike that type of shading.

[abc1233]

Any game on the 360. If games on the 360 looked the same or better then there should be at least one game that can match TLOU...

[Maddens Raiders]

@abc1233 - There are way more words than just those as well. Uncharteds, GOW3, GT5, KZ's, LBPs, Motorstorms, MGS4, SuperStardust, Journey, Heavenly Sword, Heavy Rain, etc, etc..

"While a free speed boost is of course nice, this isn’t going to make up the massive performance lead granted by the PS4′s GPU, which has 50% more compute units (cores), and thus 50% higher theoretical peak performance."
http://www.extremetech.com/...

This is just another MS pr spin job. The next thing Panello will say is, "we've actually packaged a PS4 into each XBOXONE."

[abzdine]

Penello needs to buy himself glasses..
thanks for the laugh btw

[NewMonday]

"Microsoft's Penello: No way is Xbox One giving up 30% power advantage to PS4"

like he has a choice in the matter

and the PS4 power advantage is actually

GPU 50% more
shaders 50% more
fill rate 100% more
RAM is 8G totally on 170gb/s
architecture has both hUMA and HSA

and the GPU can do CPU tasks

[abc1233]

@Maddens Raiders: Yeah I know, but I just thought those 4 words would be enough to end it then and there.

@cl1983: Yes that is what he said, but why does that go against what I'm saying? Multiplats had no bearing on the performance of the hardware last gen considering the different architectures, that's not the case this gen. How does Gears come close to TLOU?

[PLASTICA-MAN]

"Microsoft's Penello: No way is Xbox One giving up 30% power advantage to PS4"
He is right because the amount is at least 40% without counting the hidden hardware surprises Sony didn't announce yet. And the games wil look at least 200% to 300% better thanks to the magical expertise of Sony first Party studios like Studio Santa Monica and Naughty Dog.

Mister Penello, it is easy to talk, but can you prove with ACTS?

[360ICE]

Well, for yeah. It's a fallacy, though, if he wanted to make the point that 360 could compete in the power department, because the PS3 is well known to be hard to work it. PS3 exclusives smashed 360 all over the place in the graphics department, even if Halo 4 and Forza Horizon looked very nice indeed.

[Muerte2494]

Math is universal for a reason. It helps us explain/understand things that otherwise wouldn't be explainable. This is done through physics, matter, and formulas.
We're not saying theoretical performance from Xbox One isn't possible, just it has yet to be proven. PS4 numbers (RAM) are proven aka constant as oppose to ESRAM (190gb/s min - 204gb/s peak *theoretical).
This was company playing the "number don't matter" game earlier this year. Now you're throwing bloated esRAM numbers and slight upclocks. 10% increase to the CPU and 6% (clock not shaders) increase. That's still only about an 8% increase overall in performance. PS4 is still 42% more powerful. But hey numbers don't matter.

[scott182]

Multiplats looked better on the 360 generally and played better, the 360 had advantages that developers liked, it was much easier to program for. Ps4 doesn't have that Problem at all it sounds like...

[Lboogieskells]

To everything!

[JokesOnYou]

"People DO understand that Microsoft has some of the smartest graphics programmers IN THE WORLD. We CREATED DirectX, the standard API’s that everyone programs against. So while people laude Sony for their [hardware] skills, do you really think we don’t know how to build a system optimized for maximizing graphics for programmers? Seriously? There is no way we’re giving up a 30%+ advantage to Sony. And ANYONE who has seen both systems running could say there are great looking games on both systems. If there was really huge performance difference – it would be obvious."

-Looks at wii u games, then ps4 games and X1 games..yep, he nailed it.

[u got owned]

Penello: "I'm stating that not everyone knows all the facts. There are still a lot of important details about the platforms that are still unknown..."

hummmm!!! double GPU anyone... Makes me wonder.

[NewMonday]

@JokesOnYou

hello, ever hear of OpenGL?

directX is not "secret sauce", it is only relevant to MS platforms because they don't allow anything else, what developers want is low level access and the PS4 gives them that.

the most recent KillzoneSF MP previews at PAX are absolutely fantastic and absolutely nothing running on consoles comes close in graphics.

and in the graphics department DriveClub totally dominates Forza.

[joeorc]

@cl1983

he also stated this:

"We CREATED DirectX, the standard API’s that everyone programs against."

And his Arrogance is very one sided, because OpenGL is just as viable of a standard in Graphic's API

[ProjectVulcan]

OpenGL is great. Tiled resources Microsoft banged on about as if its a revolution and exclusive to windows and Xbone? Well that feature was in OpenGL first anyway!!!

[Elimin8]

@ Maddens Raiders... I seriously LMAO on this comment!

"we've actually packaged a PS4 into each XBOXONE."

[ABizzel1]

It's too late, You already gave them the advantage when you let them have a more powerful GPU which is the most important part of a gaming console.

They can over-clock all they want to try and match the PS4, but the PS4 can do the exact same thing and we'll be back from the start.

[raytraceme]

SO I guess this guy forgot what sony's 1st party did with the "alien tech" that was the cell. What Sony's ICE team can do is equally or even greater than MS and their team. MS uses DX while Playstation uses opengl plus their their own stuff over it to get closer to coding to the metal.

[andrewsqual]

Yes its called Unreal Engine 3. Here is a list of games that used it http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...

And Penello waited 4 months after the console reveal to say this why?
Remember, you can't spell reversal without reveal.

[thechosenone]

Penello has resorted to lying now I see. I've now officially lost all respect for this company.

[Freedomland]

Why Microsoft pleading their case like nobody would believe them.
Actually they gave a real hard spin to their policies and now they are doing same with the hardware, using the language and terms no layman will understand and even well versed in computer feel puzzled.
Remember that when Sega came up with a term Blast Processing related to Genesis against Nintendo and it proved to be a marketing stunt and don't forget 64 bit stunt of Jaguar.

http://segaretro.org/Blast_...
http://videogamecritic.com/...

All X1 fanboys be ready to compare all X1 launch titles graphically with the E3 showing of the same games and you know what i mean here.Nvidia vs AMD.
Disappointment is not an option.

[strifeblade]

@plastica-man

What hidden surprises in sony's architecture? not one tech site has even questioned anything about sony's revealed architecture while numerous techsites know msoft has not fully revealed their specs. Every tech sites states the ps4 architecture is off the shelf.

HELL ITS SO OFF THE SHELF I WOULDN'T BE SURPRISED IF I FOUND A BAG OF MS.VICKIE'S HIDING UNDER THERE LOL.

[gaffyh]

PS4 IS more powerful than Xbone in every technical way. Fact.

PS3 was more powerful than 360 overall. 360 had advantages in certain areas, such as unified memory and a better graphics card.

Conclusion = PS4 games will look better than Xbone unless a developer rushes a PS4 version and takes time on Xbone version.

[Death]

It's incredible how many experts there are here at N4G. Have you seen a PS4 with your own eyes? Have you seen the XboxOne? Can you explain why the actual experts aren't sure what all the customizations mean on the XboxOne?

Graphics don't mean shit. Blu-ray didn't do shit for games. You can Last of Us all you want, but the fact remains it isn't the hardware that made the game what it is, it was the developers. If you knew anything about PC tech, games running on a 7700 or 7900 can "look" the same, the difference will be how many fps you can play at. There is no game that exists on either platform that wouldn't look exactly the same on the other console. Biggest difference maybe a frame or two per second.

Forget "code to the metal" and any other illusions of power you think you know. The difference at the end of the day will be native resolution and frames per second. HDTV's limit resolution more than anything. Comparing PC numbers to the consoles is ignorant at best since resolution is reduced. This leaves fps as the biggest defining factor. It is highly unlikely we will be able to see the differences between Xbox One and PS4 games. Why not wait and see before we "know" something.

[joshuatobi]

Im a playstation guy and adding everyrhing up they may have a second gpu in the wings considering they had drm and were probably counting on the extra money from software sales to offset losses since they were guaranteed money because people had to buy new. Now they dont have the drm so it would be a catastrophic loss if they implemented the second gpu but might be willing to do it since sony is whipping their asses in preorders and want some respect from gamers. I think they are gonna most likely absorb the losses and add that gpu so they have another marketing thing to say, one up sony and see if its enough to turn a profit down the road

[pixelsword]

"People DO understand that Microsoft has some of the smartest graphics programmers IN THE WORLD. We CREATED DirectX, the standard API’s that everyone programs against. So while people laude Sony for their [hardware] skills, do you really think we don’t know how to build a system optimized for maximizing graphics for programmers? Seriously? There is no way we’re giving up a 30%+ advantage to Sony. And ANYONE who has seen both systems running could say there are great looking games on both systems. If there was really huge performance difference – it would be obvious."

"-Looks at wii u games, then ps4 games and X1 games..yep, he nailed it."

-Looks at windows 8, the fact that Windows programmers have yet to make a worthwhile game besides Solitaire, and... oh, let's throw out an old game like God of War III for good measure.

Granted the 360 had a lot of great games, but his statement carries very little weight in reference to overall achievement on the 360 versus the PS3 in terms of scale and graphics. I do believe that the Sony talked the most garbage and delivered the least of what they talked about (120fps, 1080, for example) but even that does not take away from what Sony achieved already.

So I'm afraid I have to counter with:

not really.

[DOMination-]

Crysis 2/3 on 360 looks as good as any ps3 exclusive. The PS3 was the more powerful console on paper and some games showed that but the gap between them in final end product is not as huge as is being made out

[MazzingerZ]

"People DO understand that Microsoft has some of the smartest graphics programmers IN THE WORLD. We CREATED DirectX, the standard API’s that everyone programs against. So while people laude Sony for their [hardware] skills, do you really think we don’t know how to build a system optimized for maximizing graphics for programmers? Seriously? There is no way we’re giving up a 30%+ advantage to Sony. And ANYONE who has seen both systems running could say there are great looking games on both systems. If there was really huge performance difference – it would be obvious."

1-SONY has more expertise in creating games
2-It's not "people" who lauds SONY for their HW but developers themselves
3-it goes beyond just graphics, the "smartest" 3rd party developers in the world built the PS4 HW indirectly as the architecture is built based on their feedback as well, SONY took its time to visit them and ask about their dream HW for next gen, they had someone that spoke their language and they respected: Cerny

We should stop comparing coming gen this way, it's not just about graphics this time or sell numbers but dev times, PS4 is told to be as fast to develop as the PS2, you know that was they key fir the PS2 success, so the possibility of some smaller studios( or indies taking the next step)to develop only for PS4 is there just like some multiplatform releasing first on PS4 as they will be ready faster, then port to X1.

[Consoldtobots]

not another generation of these effin retards living in denial......

this is why MS and their fans are better off IGNORED!!!

[FamilyGuy]

I really like this quote

"If there was really huge performance difference – it would be obvious."

It actually IS obvious

Killzone Shadowfall is gorgeous, has large environments, highly detailed character models, realist cloth texture that sway in the wind naturally, at 60Fps and 1080p

DriveClub looks more realistic than any other racers so far. The car models are nice and the subtle color tones makes it look more true to real life but on top of that realistic lighting effects blow other games out the water. Day, mid-day, night, rain, it all looks phenomenal. The light that the headlights produce when you're on a track at night are above anything I've seen in a racing game. The sense of speed while racing on the tracks, the glare and partial reflection seen on the on the window are amazing too.

Infamous Second Son, open world, extremely high detail in the character models, lighting effects caused by the powers, the realistic looks of the wet street when it's raining and the reflection off that wet street surface. The particle effect seen when Delsin uses his powers, the speed of the game play shown: attacks and movement, the lighting effects of the sun.

Knack - Just wait for large, bright explosions and reflective surfaces, some enemy attacks when they're using glowing weapons. It's obviously not as big a deal as the others but it has it's moments if you're watching. During Sony Feb reveal when they show Knack being played on the Vita there's a very quick explosion, watch how the room lights up and the reflections on the floor and wall surfaces. This is an example of the unexpected beauties in Knack.

Destiny, Everyone agrees that the game looks phenomenal right? Everything we've seen has been game play from the PS4 version. There is no PC version whatsoever so don't try to claim it's PC graphics, it's only been shown running on PS4 dev kits.

Tech Demo of Deep Down needs no explanation, at TGS they'll be showing a playable copy.

Tech Demo of The Dark Sorcerer, running on PS4 spec'd hardware. Also needs no explanation.

Penello.. the differences ARE obvious.

http://s18.postimg.org/cnfm...

[Ritsujun]

Aww, poor Xbosh.

[mewhy32]

OMG. Just do the math. It's probably more than 30%. I mean the bone fans and marketing execs are really getting desperate.

[The_Con-Sept]

Microsoft's PR team is really flustered. holy crap I can't believe the crap they are spewing! Bringing up the past as if it is a future.

A wise man once said: "The best way to predict the future is to invent it."

And Sony has set out to have us achieve greatness. Too bad Microsoft is too busy seeking 1.

[YNWA96]

50% more fanboy too! Yes! Awesome :)
C'mon guys, just enjoy the games, these pointless arguments have to stop sometime...

[RyuCloudStrife]

I though the PS4 was 50% more powerful?

[Gozer]

Lot of butt hurt sony fanboys in this thread. Nothing can change the fact that Ryse looks better than anything for ps4.

[mcstorm]

Wow wtf is this site turning into. Who really gives a carp what console has better graphics the one and ps4 will have the same multi platform games that you will not be able to see the difference in when you are playing one or the other as you will not be playing them side by side.

Buy the console that has the most gamea you want it is really that simple. If you want games like forza, halo you need a one if you want get, kz ect you need a ps4 if you want Mario Zelda ecr you need a Wiiu if you don't want any exclusive games but want bf or cod buy the console that more of your mates have so you can enjoy it online with them. Really people its that simple.

[Rainstorm81]

funny how people say N4G is a Sony fan site yet the first 5 comments have at avg 200 disagrees

[starchild]

I thought console gamers didn't care that much about graphics? At least that is what we PC gamers always hear from them.

But graphics related articles always get by far the most comments and the fiercest fighting. Why is that?

I don't get it. The difference between the PS3 and 360 was very small, while the difference between either console and the PC was huge.

Why does it matter if a couple of exclusives by a handful of very talented developers looked better on the PS3? Certainly that only effects those games. If you enjoy those games then you also get to enjoy some great graphics in those games. But it doesn't change everything else about the platform.

Personally it all seems a bit silly for Sony fans to try and rub marginal graphical advantages in a few games in the faces of Xbox fans. If you REALLY cared about graphics, you should be gaming on the PC, period. All the best looking games are on PC and the graphical advantages are across the board in every game, not just a couple of exclusives.

[Snookies12]

The Last of Us really was a gorgeous game. Halo Reach/4 did a good job of impressing me though considering how old the hardware was. That goes for both Halo and Last of Us.

[Thatguy-310]

halo reach does't come close to Uncharted 2/3 or The Last of Us

[Snookies12]

@dboyc310 - When did I ever compare Uncharted, or even Last of Us to Halo? I was pointing out that both series for their respective platforms are really good looking. Given the fact that Halo is a bit more open than Uncharted is though, it looks really good for what they're working with. Though I'm not knocking Uncharted, I love the series, just stating a fact.

[Elit3Nick]

especially considering that halo reach/4 are sandbox fps games with large maps, with uncharted and TLOU since they have much less play space they can focus on better textures and effects. Halo looks amazing for its size.

[Manic2014]

@dboyc310

That just seems like a completely bias opinion. Both halo and TLOU is great. what you said is completely bias, try looking from both sides not from the system you favour.

[malokevi]

Halo 4 looks fantastic, as does TLOU. Two different artistic directions, two different types of game, two different platforms. Direct comparisons are meaningless.

[kabala]

Show me a game on the 360 that looks better than TLOU then show me a game on the PS3 that looks better & run better than Halo 4 with 2 player campaign co-op, 4 player campaign co-op, forge, online multiplayer. Throw Gears, Ghost Recon, Rainbow Six Vegas in the mix. Bottom line both consoles played to their strengths.

[Volkama]

I actually find naughty dog's games have a horrible grainy appearance over slightly shiny textures. Not sure if it's deliberate (like mass effect film grain) but it's not to my tastes.

Besides that I love their attention to detail on the visuals, but didn't enjoy TLOU enough to finish it. Each to their own though, and I'm sure I'll pick up ND's next release too.

[BallsEye]

Like I wrote elsewhere..
I would agree but the last of us had a huge graphic downgrade from the first e3 demo to the retail version.

e3
http://cdn.dualshockers.com...

http://s.pro-gmedia.com/vid...

later..

http://community.us.playsta...

http://punchdrunkgamer.com/...

http://www.abload.de/img/aa...

http://www.abload.de/img/mo...

While it's a great game, they've BS'd about the graphics. Now if you disagree you better give some arguments and reply. Please look up The Last of us Graphic Downgrade. It's everywhere, even on official sony forums.

[HammadTheBeast]

BallsEye

Pre.rendered screenshots. Do not. Equal. Gameplay screenshots.

And there's the slightest decline in graphics.

[SniperControl]

@ballseye

Wow, just wow, are you really standing by that?

Everyone knows E3 game reveals are all bullshots, remember this.

http://www.abload.de/img/ge...

Hands down TLoU, is better than anything on the 360.

[Yomaster]

The Last of Us looked good for the age of the console it was running on. However, as great of a game as it was, there were times I looked at graphics and thought, "Damn, that looks like crap."

I don't fault the game for it, but merely the age of the hardware it was running on.

Regardless, TLoU, let alone any other console game, graphically pales in comparison to anything on a decent PC GPU. Not trying to run the PC master race card or anything, but calling ANY console game gorgeous at this point is a bit of a stretch. "Good for what it has to work with" is more relevant.

[BallsEye]

@SniperControl

No, honestly halo 4 beats every current gen games. Even got plenty graphics of the year awards. native 720p with beautiful AA, something even Last of Us doesn't do. Please check out real screens and real gameplay.

[BallsEye]

@SniperControl

No, honestly halo 4 beats every current gen game. Even got plenty graphics of the year awards. native 720p with beautiful AA, something even Last of Us doesn't do. Please check out real screens and real gameplay.

[Evilsnuggle]

I own 360 and PS3 you can't compare the last of us to any other game this gen. in terms if graphics the gap is to huge no game this gen comes close to tlou . I would not believe it if i did not see it myself
With my eyes.

[GarrusVakarian]

Without being biased here, there is NO way he can actually believe that Xbox 360 games look better than PS3 games, basic observation says otherwise. Ive never played a single Xbox 360 exclusive that looked anywhere near as good as The Last Of Us or Uncharted 2 and 3, or God Of War 3 to name a few.

Multiplats on the other hand......

[adventureghost124]

True with both of those statements, however they could have looked better on the PS3 than the 360 if Dev's took the time to learn the PS3 Architecture. Which I know was a pain to program for, but you see how it turned out at the end if this generation. And we will definitely see most if not all titles looking better on the PS4 this upcoming Gen

[Machiavellian]

When people compare graphics do they also compare environments. Scope in a game makes just as much difference than just Eye candy. Case in point would be Killzone SF and BattleField 4. People talk about how good Killzone looks over BF4 but forget the scope of the 2 games. Another thing people forget is the ability of developers. When you have multiplats you see what can be done in a limited time between both systems.

[Funantic1]

That has to do with the studio more than the PS3. Naughty Dog does a great job.

[Eonjay]

According to math, which isn't unbiased, the PS4 is roughtly 40% more powerful than the Xbox One. This isn't even up for debate. To be far though, I don't expect Penello to admit that. Why would he? Seriously?

[SniperControl]

@fun

What???

ND created those graphics because the PS3 allowed to them to create those graphics.

[rigbybot127]

@SniperControl Actually, it was their talent, and the space of a Blu-Ray disc that allowed them to make their shining masterpieces. The PS3 and 360 were about neck and neck in terms of power; it was just the disc space that set them apart.

[SonyNGP]

Famous last words.

[Narutone66]

Read title: No way Xbox One giving up 30% power advantage to PS4.
So, it's 50% then?

[GarrusVakarian]

Agreed. All you have to do is go onto Youtube yourself for proof that PS3 exclusives look better than Xbox's. Its not about being a fanboy or being biased, its just basic observation. But i do think Forza 4 is a very very nice looking game.

Although i think in that quote he was referring to multiplats because alot of the time the 360 multiplats looked better than the PS3 multiplats. There's no way he could have been talking about exclusives.

[abc1233]

If he's talking about multiplats then he should know that the reason behind that is gone for next gen considering they both have x86 architectures. So now that the X1 doesn't have the advantage of being easier to develop for, how are they going to make up the difference in hardware performance.

[aceitman]

wow ever since Penello stepped in he is talking a lot of smack hopefully we will see who is the one telling the truth , once the systems launch we will see final product on the games and vido comparisons (head to head will do a lot of them ) to see which system is having frame rate issues and graphic details . launch dates cant come fast enough.

[GiantEnemyCrab]

Alan Wake looked damn amazing.

But I have to agree Uncharted, Killzone, TLOU, Heavy Rain set the bar high. I give more credit to the developers than anything else. They have some of the best people in the industry working at these studios.

[GarrusVakarian]

Damn i forgot about Alan Wake, i loved that game so much, and yeah it did look really good graphically.

[HammadTheBeast]

Alan Wake had some amazing lighting for it's time.

In the end, it's all down to the studios.

[wishingW3L]

Alan Wake was kind of decent looking but it had poor frame-rate, it was sub-HD and the animations were absolutely horrible.

[WeAreLegion]

You guys should try the PC version of Alan Wake with mods. Absolutely gorgeous!

[Volkama]

Ah I tried Alan wake recently. PC version all maxed out (without mods). I thought it was visually quite poor, mostly because the animations were terrible. I also didn't like the combat at all. Another highly rated game I didn't get in to. Quantum break looks more to my liking though.

[starchild]

You have to be kidding me about Alan Wake supposedly having poor animations. The animations were just fine. Not the best I have seen, but certainly not poor. Well above average I would say.

In any case the animations definitely couldn't ruin the visuals. That's absurd. Alan Wake on PC is one of the best looking games on the platform. It would probably crack the top 15 if not the top 10 best looking games on PC. And it has some amazing competition with the likes of Crysis 3, Far Cry 3, Tomb Raider, Metro Last Light, Battlefield 3, The Witcher 2, etc.

[corvusmd]

That game was good, but not the Xbox killer you want to believe at all...nice try though

[CYCLEGAMER]

I wouldn't sit here and say that any game on the xbox looks better than GOW or Uncharted 3, but I will say that it took a VERY long time to get that power out.

The XB1 will be my first choice, you probably will not see the TRUE power/difference of the ps4 until around 2015-2016.

[THC CELL]

Hmm I would not say that, God of war looks better than some of the next gen games we seen meh to me all u want God of war, developers will show ms up. Nd will finish it all. Btw ms are blind so there u go.

[rigbybot127]

Yeah. Xbox One is still gonna have gorgeous games. I'm mostly going with PS4 because of Rime, Everybody's Gone to the Rapture, and whatever Naughty Dog is cooking up.

[NextGen24Gamer]

Penello said:

"I’m not saying they haven’t built a good system – I’m merely saying that anyone who wants to die on their sword over this 30%+ power advantage are going to be fighting an uphill battle over the next 10 years…"

And he also said:

"People DO understand that Microsoft has some of the smartest graphics programmers IN THE WORLD. We CREATED DirectX, the standard API’s that everyone programs against. So while people laude Sony for their [hardware] skills, do you really think we don’t know how to build a system optimized for maximizing graphics for programmers? Seriously? There is no way we’re giving up a 30%+ advantage to Sony. And ANYONE who has seen both systems running could say there are great looking games on both systems. If there was really huge performance difference – it would be obvious."

That's real talk right there! Common sense stuff.

11+22+13=46 - 4+6=10 - 1+0=1

[AngelicIceDiamond]

"I’m not saying they haven’t built a good system – I’m merely saying that anyone who wants to die on their sword over this 30%+ power advantage are going to be fighting an uphill battle over the next 10 years…"

Hes speaking DIRECTLY to Sony fans with this comment?

Lets see.

Albert Panello: Lead planner for Xbox One and Xbox 360 and also influenced the X1's architecture and specs.

VS

Your everyday N4G Sony fans.

Forget the lottery I rather bet on this.

[MasterCornholio]

Its more like

Albert Panello: Lead planner for Xbox One and Xbox 360 and also influenced the X1's architecture and specs.

VS

Mark Cerny: Lead system architect of the PS4

He said this during gamescom "The PS4 is the World's Most Powerful Console"

Who should we believe?

[AngelicIceDiamond]

@Master The games that get launched and beyond.

[acdata]

.

[acdata]

one nightmare "The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim"
your "four word" has painted texture and lots of scripted AI & events
ps3 cant handle real game like skyrim GTA IV and ....
lost time i checked after more than 7 years of development on ps3 saint row 4 run in SD resolution and 15 fps

[THC CELL]

Yawn. Last of us beat every single 360 exclusive to date. Also my pedigree chum don't blame Sony blame developers. Rumor has it gta v lead platform on ps3

[SpideySpeakz]

Fact: MS was heavily involved in first content for GTA4 and Skyrim. Microsoft paid 20mil for exclusive day 1 release for GTA4. Skyrim content came first on the Xbox. PC didn't even get this content first even though that's the leading platform. That tells me MS had their greedy hands all in R* and Bethesda's cookie bar.
I wouldn't be surprise if they paid them to make it run shitty on the PS platform.

They've already been caught bullying publishers years ago. MS are corporate snakes.

[acdata]

so it seems Ms paid Blizzard Entertainment to make ps3 version of Diablo3 the worst version, funny.

[T2]

How does poor programming reflect on ps3 ? And more importantly how is this related to ps4 with totally different architecture

[joefrost00]

I hear you sony fans scream Last of Us to you blue in the face
When in all honesty it suppose to look good
One the game was slow as shit
Two wasn't never really that much stuff going on
And technically you had clipping and serious AI issues
If I remember didn't halo 4 win best graphics of the year last year

[rigbybot127]

@THC CELL GTA V was developed on both PS3 and 360, simultaneously. I agree that The Last of Us beat every 360 exclusive, but the best games of this generation (Portal 2, Bioshock) were on both systems, and ran very similarly.

[SpideySpeakz]

Because MS has policies in place that states every multipat game should run at the same level of fidelity as the competitor. http://www.gamesindustry.bi...

That's why Sony exclusives are vastly better than MS exclusives.

[JamieL]

I think saying Sony exclusives are "vastly" better is pushing it a little. I agree you can say they look better, but ya'll try to make it seem like it's a generation better or something. The difference is not that big at all.

[MizTv]

It's very sad

[Belking]

sorry bud, TLOU was god but it wasn't better graphically than some of the older games on ps3. Graphically it wasn't that impressive. Uncharted looks better to me.

[aceitman]

@belkin u have a lot of positive stuff to say about ms and a lot of negative against sony on ur comments , so I take it as u never played tlou, trolling r u.

[MysticStrummer]

Sorry bud, but you're either blind or insane. I just saw TLoU for the first time a few days ago and it's clearly a graphical advancement over any of the UC games, though they all look great.

[aceitman]

does penello put his foot in his mouth with this one,
http://www.gamespot.com/new...
if its meaningless then why the hell are they bumping up there specs, nice pr move penello.

[ziggurcat]

the funny thing is that before anything was announced on either side, when rumoured specs came out (that turned out to be mostly true), xbox fans were beating the "bu-bu-but power isn't important, only games" drum probably because penello said how comparing specs is meaningless.

now that the xbone specs are pretty much out there (although xbox fans are grasping onto this non-existant dGPU), it's "xbone is more powerful" even though the PS4 remains the more dominant console spec-wise.

they're even claiming that the CPU speed on xbone is faster despite the fact that nothing has been confirmed regarding the PS4 CPU. if recent rumours are true, it *might* be somewhere in the 2.0GHZ range (an FCC report stated that 2.75GHZ was its peak, but there's no way that it'll be anything close to that number).

[TheTwelve]

Exactly. All Albert did was discredit himself by making claims that are obviously wrong to anybody with eyes to see.

[stage88]

@abc1233

+bubbles well said.

This Penello guy have obviously never played any of the PlayStation exclusives. The ignorance from him is appalling.

[TheHierarchy]

The last of us looks good but it's character's don't move as real as halo4's. Halo 4's facial animations were number 1. http://youtu.be/GbjA6rB98Yk...

you'ed be kidding your self about halo 4's level of detail. now lets go on to Quantum Brake; that game has number 1 looking characters. they move as good real life it's self...and i don't see ANY game on PS4 moving like how they do. SHOW ME THE PROOF!

[fghtrer3fb5erg]

Haha youre a joke bro! Youre comparing cutscenes lol, Quantum brake was all cutscenes, show me real gameplay bro! All we have seen about ps4 games was real gameplay.

[fghtrer3fb5erg]

Haha youre a joke bro! Youre comparing cutscenes, how dumb is that..

[TheDevKit]

@DatRamboX

Halo uses real time cut scenes.

[StoneyYoshi]

@ TheDevKit

And The Last Of Us doesn't??

Just watched those halo cut-scenes, and even though they are well done. It is well behind The Last Of Us. I have never been so attached to characters in a video game in my life like i was with The Last Of Us.

[Rainstorm81]

The opening cutscenes of TLOU were not only gorgeous but emotionally moving....Literally every time i play the game from the beginning i get chills.

I played Halo 4 and immediately when Master Chief awakens you realize how great that game looks and is probably 360s best looking game.

But when it comes to Facial animations and character animation, most 360 games are lacking especially compared to TLOU or Uncharted, While Halo 4 does look great, its outmatched

[AlphaJunk]

@abc1233 after 7 years, one Game is all you've gotten? And that's a very different environment with nothing similar on 360 to compare.

[ziggurcat]

1st party: killzone 2, killzone 3, uncharted, uncharted 2, uncharted 3, heavy rain, god of war 3, god of war ascension, MGS4... shall i go on?

3rd party:

l.a. noire, max payne 3, tomb raider, remember me, and dishonored (to name a few) all looked/performed better on PS3.

[rigbybot127]

@ziggurcat Max Payne 3 ran better and had better foliage on 360, but the rest of the games ran better on PS3.

[joefrost00]

You do realize the 360 was a more powerful system but things like cross game chat and party chat and voice messaging during games takes up ram
They had more ram allocated toward system features thats why you have a graphical advantage for the ps3
If MS would have cut those features out like sony did and put it towards games,
The games would have not been close 360 would have looked far better

[jetlian]

actually 360 had more ram even with party chat etc on. 360 games have bigger worlds and more stuff going on!

ps3 was suppose to be 2 times the power and ended up being weaker! same thing sony said about ps2 and it was weak.

http://kotaku.com/john-carm...
1:50 to 2:05

go compare halo to killzone, halo is wide open by comparasion. halo's do 4 player sc online, forge recording etc.

open world games in general struggled on ps3. skyrim even gta4 was sub hd same with rdr.

[abc1233]

Open world games struggled? And what about Infamous 2?

[joefrost00]

Why do I have disagrees for telling facts
Anybody who disagrees with me tell me what part did I lie about
And if im not mistaken didnt halo 4 win best overall graphics last year
Infamous 2 had a open world but one thing it was slow as shit and you never had that much stuff going on at once

[BX81]

Some parts of the last of us didn't look that great. It's a good looking game all around. This gen ps3 had the better looking exclusives but it wasn't like it blew the competition away. It still looked better though. I thought Xbox had some great looking games as well. Alan wake and gears are good examples. I think in the end, overall the ps3 had lesser games I wanted to play but looked great. Xbox had more games I played and looked pretty good.

[Docknoss]

If You sony fans didn't really think this were true you, wouldn't be here trolling and defending the PS4's superiority. I take this as a good thing.

[THamm]

Yes to even admit that there INDEED is a performance gap is something. All this time they claimed that we haven't seen anything and that the X1 is the leader, now they're saying that Sony is ahead but not as much as it was at first.

[Chevalier]

Exactly. Microsoft also said you didn't need HDMI for HD gaming, that you don't need bluray (but now has it) and also that PS3 was only good as a media center yet now wants to be the media center in your living room right? The ones that were going to have DRM and dictate your gaming experience? The ones are making Xbox One into a box that will sell you things with ads? Yeah I totally want to believe what MS says.....

[Volkama]

My 360 doesn't have hdmi, outputs 1080p60 over component just fine.
My 360 doesn't have a blu-ray player, plays games just fine.

Maybe they were right? That was a long time ago though, so either way has little bearing on this next set of consoles.

[ZHZ90]

I don't sit on Neogaf but I got shocked that people at companies like MS like Albert, dear God! They write comments they do read our posts!/off-topic

Anyways I feel like they are trying to convince people like myself to move from PS brand to Xbox brand but they fail to do it, why would I buy more expensive console with inferior power.

[Deadpoolio]

Or uncharted....Hell almost every Sony game looked better than anything the 360 had 1st or multiplat...Sony's studios cannot be touched by MS tiny few stables that make more than just kinect games or are not being used at all

[MizTv]

That's why I go with ps
The best exclusive games
"Real Exclusive games" not "Timed Exclusive"

[3-4-5]

My guess:

4-5 years from now PS4 will have a 5-10% power advantage.

Only the BEST dev's will be able to take advantage of it.

[palaeomerus]

Doubtful. Both consoles are so PC like that they'll be getting most of their dev-experience related "power increases" from library updates and GPU driver and API revisions.

It's all pretty much on the table from the start.

[moparful99]

Lol^^^ Resogun looks better than anything announced for either console and its from an indie..

[moparful99]

Lol^^^ Resogun looks better than anything announced for either console, is only using 50% of the PS4's processing, and its from an indie..

[rigbybot127]

@moparful99 Yeah, indies are ruling the next gen; Rime, Everybody's Gone to the Rapture, Below, D4, and Resogun notwithstanding.

[2cents]

Hooray, the console war has officially started! Now it gets exciting.

Time for SDF to get into 5th gear and really let it rip.

Oh the joys of gaming.

[BallsEye]

I would agree but the last of us had a huge graphic downgrade from the first e3 demo to the retail version.

e3
http://cdn.dualshockers.com...

http://s.pro-gmedia.com/vid...

later..

http://community.us.playsta...

http://punchdrunkgamer.com/...

http://www.abload.de/img/aa...

http://www.abload.de/img/mo...

While it's a great game, they've BS'd about the graphics. Now if you disagree you better give some arguments and reply. Please look up The Last of us Graphic Downgrade. It's everywhere, even on official sony forums.

[Ninjamonkey82]

Spamming and tbh wrong.

[strifeblade]

There you have it sony fanboys, take this info and shove it. This is the big response from msoft you have been waiting for that 30% advantage you thought ps4 had is non existant (remember when ps4 was 50% more powerful? fanboys make me laugh). I have been saying this the whole time- msoft has so many subsystems unknown to us all and the customization of its architecture easily excels sony in some areas and more than makes up for it in others. The cpu is already clocked higher than ps4 lol.

[jaren92]

2 words halo four

[Animal Mutha 76]

I believe him more than any of you armchair engineers.

He doesn't know everything about PS4 and has admitted that but you can bet your ass he knows more about it and the tech of X1 than anyone on here or GAF or SA or B3D or any other f*cking debate for hits website.

He's not trying to score points here or 'save' X1 as you couldnt do that through just neogaf. I respect him for taking the time to address questions and concerns on GAF even sometimes to a hostile and in my opinion disrespectful audience.

If Cerny talked in a similar way I'd believe him as well. These guys are not PR puppets. They are passionate about what they do and they are going out of their way to address their customers directly off the books.

[thetruthx1]

Anyone know why MS reps are now talking up game performance?

That's right you guessed it ***9/29*** :-)

Sony's contractual agreement with AMD will expire allowing Microsoft to reveal the custom silicon and the actual real specs of the Xbox One

For anyone that thought MS linked up with 30 of IBM's best hardware engineers along with AMD in 2010 to put a 6 series Radeon card in the One you're very funny lol

Since Microsoft stepped foot into the console business when have they ever launched with hugely outdated tech :)

Keep in mind this console has to at least keep up for 10 years

15 co processors, 8 for audio, 5 for graphics, and two unknown

If MS decided to go for the overkill they'll reveal W2W with a dgpu

Microsoft can't wait to expose Sony the only question is will Sony keep bragging until October

And the only developers that recently got the final SDK's are Capcom, Crytek, Ubisoft, and EA. Have you been wondering why a game like Assassins Creed or Watchdogs never show the Xbox One versions? It's because by the Sony agreements they aren't supposed to

Battlefield 4 has cloud dynamics

Remember the Need for Speed developers said one version would be better than the other ;)

Either Sept 29th or later in October the most powerful gaming console will truly be revealed :)

[HammadTheBeast]

Sigh. Just. Sigh.

Need for Speed and BF4 devs said it would run better than CURRENT GEN.

HUEHUEHUE BIG ACCOMPLISHMENT.

Apparently, you morons think the XbO is hiding some super flashy tech.

Then why is it the same price as PS4 (-kinect)?

Lol LATA

[ziggurcat]

1. Link to prove Sony is preventing MS from talking about *their own specs*.

2. You're still clinging onto that non-existent dGPU...

3. Again, Sony can't prevent MS from disseminating their own hardware to developers. Nonsense.

4. Yeah, and it was hinted at being the PS4.

5. BF4 has never been shown on xbone. Even at PAX, they were demoing the game on PC with xbone controllers.

6. No because devs have already stated, as well as a rep from AMD before they were forced to retract their statement, that the PS4 is the more powerful system.

7. And it's because ubisoft has a deal with Sony, just like EA has a deal with MS... And how activision only shows CoD on Xbox... Doesn't mean they're not allowed to show it on the other system.

Try harder.

Edit: and please let me know if you need any help dislodging that giant foot from your mouth when you're proven to be wrong.

[shutUpAndTakeMyMoney]

cry xbox fans.. cry!!
http://www.amd.com/us/produ...

[strifeblade]

you know whats funny- gddr5 right now has a 25-35 gb advantage over x1 memory and that advantage will grow smaller in the future. But you know what advantage the x1 memory has over ps4? the latency and that advantage will never diminish. So for all those games that use 140-150 gb of ram (probably the majority of multiplats) the advantage lies with the x1 due to the lower latency lol ps4 will only have the advantage when the game actually uses over the 150 gb amount which will be quite rare foir now lol. Havn't you noticed the majority of fans stopped talking about gddr5 because the advantage they thought they once had is not all there lol. The theorital peak of the x1 memory is higher than ps4 memory sitting at 201- but its meaningless sameway that bull**** about ps4 being 50% stronger they forget its only theoretical as we can already see from the games- both systems look on par with eachother.

[moparful99]

@strifeblade Sony has engineered their GPU to be able to do onboard compute functions making latency issues a non argument..

They also engineered an additional bus giving direct read/write access to the shared pool of memory.. Mary Cerny clarified that that they easily could have had a terabyte of bandwidth to the memory but determined that Unified memory was the goal.

Do yourself a favor and do research before spouting opinion as fact. Read this article, Cerny manages to in-depth explain the technical functions of this setup clearly without ever once mentioning the competition and without coming off as smug. My money is on Sony's hardware having a significant advantage.
http://www.gamasutra.com/vi...

[Cueil]

if Microsoft allowed their fist party developers to let their games drop below 20 fps I'm sure that they could also have squeaked out some extra visuals :-p

[nosferatuzodd]

lol

[palaeomerus]

Honestly I haven't seen much of ANYBODY get excited about Ryse. I'm not sure that a roman sword brawler is all that exciting a product.

[Cueil]

yes... lets compare alpha code with final code on frame rates >_> that's not how you do things

[nosferatuzodd]

if that was true then why trying to upgrade Cpu at the last moment i tell you what they saw what ps4 is capable of and got scared

[palaeomerus]

The people who saw at BF4 runing on PS4 hardware at Gamescom didn't seem too scared of PS4's power. They said it looked worse than expected. Of course it hasn't shipped yet but...hype is just hype.

[moparful99]

@paleomerus Much like how at GamesCon in the Xbox booth BF4 was running on Pc's disguised as XB1's?? It has been reported that BF4 is running awful on both consoles which speaks far more about Dice than it does the consoles.. Quit trolling.

[Persistantthug]

XBOX One will have 3 GPUs.

lol

[Eddie20101]

and a masseuse for happy endings and...
and cookies and warm milk.

[Persistantthug]

@Eddie20101,

I'll take 3 to go please!

;)

PS.....And I'll take 1 Wii U....just in case.

[Eddie20101]

Xbox One nor Microsoft have to give anything...........PS4 and Sony are taking it by being better.

[KingTrash]

Uncharted looks better than The Last of Us. Both are nearly flawless games but if you're gonna talk about the best looking PS3 game, I'd go with Uncharted 2 or 3 for sure.

[CRAIG667]

hahah the last of us?!?!!? it only took what? 7 FU%^ING YEARS.

[Rageanitus]

I actually did not like the Last of Us graphics/style for some reason Uncharted 3, GOW 3/Acension, KZ3 Looked BETTER.

[NewZealander]

you cant use the last of us, thats like me using halo 4, and while both halo 4 and the last of us are amazing looking games its impossible to judge how they would preform on the other consoles.

i played some of the last of us, did it look good? yes it looked great, was i blown away in awe of the best graphics ever? no, it was nice but i have seen better looking games, and it wasn't particularly fun in my opinion.

[Comnnsence]

Why is everyone still comparing on the past? PS3 were and still is more powerful than the Xbox360. The 360 had a full year headstart, therefore giving developers more time to get acclimated with the system, thus able to extract very decent graphics from the system. As you can see, 360 is showing its age now because all games look the same. I'm not bashing the 360 because i did chose it over the PS3, but if your still debating on the past, then why would Xboneless not learn from the past to continue that trend? The developers finally are able to utilize the PS3 function which now is showing better graphics than the 360. Sony learded from their past which is why they invested in better products. This article is nothing but damage control. If power doesn't matter then why keep on feeding into it?

[gamer70]

All the talk about the PS3 being more powerful than the 360 is just a bunch of fanboy hyperbole. The PS3 had poorly allocated ram and an inferior GPU. Fact is, every single game that fanboys hyped up for graphics on the PS3 was not even graphically consistent throughout, and that includes TLoU. Neither consoles featured a game that was graphically consistent throughout due to hardware limitations. This is an irrefutable fact! Developers have also stated that the only difference between the two machines are the trade offs, and which are preferred most.

What I've said here is just pure common sense no fanboy bs, you can disagree all you want but it still doesn't change a thing. In the end it was the developers the made the difference not the hardware. Something that you fanboys need to learn to accept.

[listenkids]

Did xbox original have multiplat games to even compare to ps2? That's 2 consoles you don't put into one sentence.

As for ps3, when they weren't shit ports to it, they looked and played better, fact.

[CJDUNCAN]

The Last of Us looked amazing but multiplats hands down looked better on 360.

[tokugawa]

on one side we have a PR mouth from microsoft

and on the other side a bunch of idiotic fanboys repeating numbers quoted by sony that they know nothing about.

not only that, sony has a history of inflating the performance of their consoles.

for me, it is not that important because i am buying both this year. but, in all honesty, i dont believe microsoft or sony. the proof will be in the pudding.

i.e: the games. until then, i think that they are both full of shit

[JsonHenry]

I think what this guy is getting at is that, once again, we are going to have a generation of gaming where Nintendo looks last gen and Sony and MS will be close to each other in visuals even if one of the two has a slight advantage.

[Raiden]

I really can't wait to see what happen at the end of this month after NDA, What. Wouldthe last of us look like on the 360 i wonder never compare exclusive

[marcofdeath]

The Last of Us still don't look better than the last
Halo!

[50Terabytespersec]

LOL MS just spent Billions on Nokia for what?
Why they couldn't spent the money and take a loss on the Xbox One??
Now they got to run some phoney tech campaign about how the systems are similar in power.I have been at the edge of cutting edge for over 10 years.
Let me tell you this Bandwidth is everything!
I dont care how fast your CPU's are and how much memory you have ..
I you have no bandwidth your frame rate and detail will suffer ! Especially in HD or 4k ..It is basic Math not BS phoney ad or technical BS they sell you..
If you have 100GB bandwidth and some else has 200GB bandwidth . DO the math DUH

[GarrusVakarian]

So glad im getting both, can't wait to see what the 1st party devs manage do with each of their respective consoles.

[OlgerO]

Im sure there will be some real gems over the years. and even if the PS4 is 5 percent more powerfull, it will still be the to go to system for multiplats

[thisismyaccount]

It more like 40% or even more.

PS4 :

1x Memory pool, no add. mambojumbo inside the box

Xbox :

2x Memory pools, 15 add. co-processors, 4 Move Engines, 1x High End Audio Chip (for multi stream), extra? gpgpu chip and what not...

PS4 more powerful, less complicated and cheaper.
Xbox less powerful, more complicated and 100$ more expensive.

[negative]

I'll wait and let the games do the talking. Your simplistic hardware comparisons and fanboy biased conclusions mean nothing right now.

With that said, there is no way Microsoft would allow the competition to have that much of an advantage. Relax, though, it's not the end of the world pal.

[IcicleTrepan]

You aren't a hardware engineer nor are you a software developer with experience on both platforms. I don't think your statement counts for anything.

[MysticStrummer]

PS4 was designed with lots of developer input. Which do you suppose they would like better, the more straightforward setup or the more convoluted setup?

Hint : They liked the 360's setup better than PS3's because it was easier to work on.

PS3 was more powerful than 360 but it's more convoluted system made it tougher to work on.

PS4 is both more powerful and simpler to work on than the One.

[yellowgerbil]

it doesn't really matter for years down the line. No one knows how to push the limits of either system.
My money is on Sony. Hardware is about juggling what power and affordability. The kinect is pricey, think that is why they are using things like the older ram type and stuff.

[user7402931]

ps4 is more powerful than the xbox one. fact.

[waltyftm]

Easy now, some people cant handle that fact.

[user7402931]

Its all good, im just bringing the cold hard facts.

[Elit3Nick]

Oh I didn't realize that you played them both yet, oh wait...

[user7402931]

glad you realise this now.

[vigilante_man]

It does seem like Microsoft are starting to accept that on paper the PS4 has the obvious power advantage regarding graphic capabilities (pretty much core in a gaming console).

It is the second or third time he has mentioned this.

I am glad MS are getting 1,000% out of the XB1. And from seeing PS3 exclusives we know Sony developers will do the same.

Well done everyone??

[XboxFun]

PS4 and Xbox One games look exactly alike. Fact.

[user7402931]

killer instinct 720p. killzone 1080p

[ape007]

^^^^

pimp, Forza 5, 1080p 60fps :)

[T2]

@ ape - its a driving game ... Seriously how hard is 60 fps on a driving game

[ziggurcat]

oh? because i'm sure i would be able to find several posts from you dumping on PS4 games as looking inferior to xbone, including BF4.

[Hercules189]

@joecanada try asking the driveclub devs, also fps is more important than realtime clouds and lighting that youre not going to notice when youre going over 80 mph. In a racing game fps means a lot, it gives a better sense of speed.

[moparful99]

@Ape and Hercules ResoGun 1080p 60fps only tapping 50% of the PS4's processing power..
https://dl.dropboxuserconte...

Edit Download that direct feed and tell me that all of those particle effects and buttery smooth framerate isn't impressive.

[CalamityCB]

Didn't realize you had access to the full specifications of both of the consoles which go into full detail.
No facts yet, only speculation based upon simple hardware introductions which the many of were done months ago now.

[corvusmd]

He said it perfectly!!! It makes all these stupid fanboys that say "PS4 is 40% more powerful" and "PS4 more powerful...fact" look so damn stupid, they clearly have NO clue what they are talking about...from a business point, MS is well aware, and fully capable. These little kids saying otherwise just have no clue...and it's been proven over and over and over....you'd think they'd learn.

The more we actually learn..even going into launch is that PS4 is NOT more powerful in the endstate, it has a much more powerful GPU, but that's it... games already look the same, both will get better...MS has the easier and more efficient drivers, much better network support, and deeper pockets. It appears that Sony fanboys are just setting themselves up for another PS3/360 fail

Another thing I don't get is Sony fans saying it will become more apparent how much better the PS4 is with time....true games for both systems will look better, but this time the advantage is a more powerful GPU, not a hard- to-program-for Cell processor...so, really all the tech advantage should be available NOW....it's a proven GPU already, there's no tricks to it...in fact that's it's strongest feature is that it's streamlined...so if games are already visually similar....that doesn't fair well for Sony

[christocolus]

Dude ..you have made the most sense so far...ati even acknowledged how good ms graphic engineers were regarding the work they did on the xbo 360 xenon gpu ...avalanche studio head also stated that when it comes to drivers to optimize hardware that ms has always been at the forefront...why people can't realise this is beyond me..there is really  nothing much to disagree with here...MS has been in the pc business for a while...and if sonys hardware is easier to develop for with a much stronger gpu then its only normal that their launch titles should be way ahead of the competition afterall they keep claiming to have had everything out before ms even dev kits..but sadly it doesn't show in their games...and if sony fans keep claiming the games will look better with time then they should also realise the xbox one games will also look better with time.I can almost bet that halo5 will look better than all i've seen from sony so far....but let's keep our fingers crossed.

[Deadpoolio]

Actually how would you know considering that Micro$haft has had EVERY demo since E3 running on Windows 7 power PCs with Nvidia graphics cards...Even though the One80 is designed around Windows 8 and AMD chips....Which has been confirmed 3 times now, that they have been running everything on PCs with Nivida....Meanwhile It was also confirmed several times that PS4 footage and demos have all been on PS4 dev kits

[Deadpoolio]

Your forgot the significantly better RAM....And NO that little 32mn of eSRAM with their DDR3 is NOT = to the GDDR5....

Nor is Azure going to do anything for the One80 graphically, again Xbots don't even have a simple grasp of computers as often as I see the morons with DA CLOUD will make graphics better... Azure is not designed to work with the GPU and will not graphically improve anything

[JamieL]

You make yourself look so childish every time you comment man. I think I could literally answer any comment I've ever read from you on this site with, "So what?". It's entertaining in a pathetic kind of way, and I can't be too hypocritical because I'm on here reading it probably too often. To be honest I would be embarrassed to be as petty in life as you in this way. Do you think you are “standing for what’s right” in any way, shape, form, or fashion? I really can’t see what the benefit could possibly be to have this kind of attitude, and it is really sad seeing how far we’ve fallen as a society. What do you get out of spreading so much negativity about MS products? I don’t just mean you either, if anyone on either side can answer me that I would love to get some answers to that. What’s the real payoff of fanboy trolling?

[iamnsuperman]

I usually respect what this guy says but wtf is this:

""People DO understand that Microsoft has some of the smartest graphics programmers IN THE WORLD. We CREATED DirectX, the standard API’s that everyone programs against. So while people laude Sony for their [hardware] skills, do you really think we don’t know how to build a system optimized for maximizing graphics for programmers?"

Great but hardware isn't just programming you know. It is how it is built which is why you had issues when the 360 launched. Also you can only programme so far. It is restricted by the hardware itself which is where Sony gets its credit for (because they know about hardware)

[vigilante_man]

Lets hope for gamers sakes that XB1 does not suffer any hardware issues - and the same with PS4.

We are all putting our hard earned money into their pockets..

[GodGinrai]

I agree, sort of. A company as big as MS..they could have gone with a more pwerful GPU. sure it would have raised production costs, but I am saying this as somebody who is buying the X1 first, It would have made that £420/$500 price tag less of an issue. even if they were selling at a loss, the gains longterm of being in their position financially and having the most powerful console would have made life easier for them, especially after "180-gate" the most powerful console does not always win. History has proven that, but is a nice feather to have in your cap.

Im glad Penello feels strongly about this however,because he could have had a mattrick like response..instead he feels ..something about it.which is good. maybe next time round He will be more mindful and push for the more powerful console.

MS extended the X360 long past its sell by date through software. If they can really improve the console over timne through the cloud ( I dont know..and im not saying either which way what they can and cant do with it..they are the ones doing the R&D and spending money on this stuff) and constant software improvements then we may be suprised by X1. Especially if they invested in more in house studios that really use all those features (kinect 2.0, smartglass etc) ininnovative ways. Its almost like watching them learn this all over again in some ways. but now they are listening.and they have to because they have a whole lot riding this.

If they coupled the things they are good at with the most powerful cosole, they would be an even more formidable competitor to sony than they would have ever anticipated. Im just sharing my thoughts on the matter is all.. not picking a fight.

[acdata]

sony doesn't build console hardware the gpu & cpu made by TSMC OR GF RAM and HDD made by samsung and hynix .it seems they only made capacitor and resistor :D for its console .so don't say sony know about hardware and of course foxconn assemble sony bought hardware . so i don't know when you talk about sony you say they build hardware for itself!!!?
Microsoft is graphic technology leader in world and every other one else flow them.

[Deadpoolio]

PSSSST FoxConn assembles ALL of Microsoft's hardware also, SO quit trying to pretend that it's just Sony and precious MS has never done that.....

They were number 2 on the list of American companies right behind Apple, of Companies who have Foxconn assemble EVERYTHING MS makes

[acdata]

@Dildopoolio
you did't understand what i write.

[iamnsuperman]

@acdata
I never said Sony built it themselves. What I said is they understand how X works with Y on a hardware level. This is why they get credit. Sony products are generally well built (regardless who assembles them or where the parts come from). Remember Sony decides what goes in and where/how something is built (that appropriate level the product must pass)

[franko]

Xbox one - Amanda Bynes
Ps4 - Kelly Brook

[Roper316]

what matters is the games so I ask the following questions.

when was the last time a MS 1st party studio won a GOTY?

When was the last time a Sony studio won GOTY?

When was the last time a Xbox exclusive 1st, 2nd or 3rd party won GOTY?

When was the last time a Sony exclusive won 1st, 2nd or 3rd party won GOTY?

When was the last time MS released a new core 1st party or 2nd party IP?

When was the last time Sony released a new core 1st party or 2nd party IP?

[FlunkinMonkey]

Exactly, MS fans are a bitter mess.. Just reading their waffle in this last hr has made me continuously shake my head.

They won't answer your questions because they know Sony battered them. Fact.

[GodGinrai]

As an Xbox guy, I aggree with you. these are the things that they need to now work on.

The answer is simple:

Invest in new studios..and go shopping for some highly respected and talented ones. Approach a few unestablished indies and help em out..bring them into the fold. the result..a tonne of exclusive games.

[XboxFun]

Who cares about GOTY!!

Does this stop anyone from buying record amounts of Gears, Halo, CoD, BF4?

You Sony fanboys love to walk around and strut this GOTY as if it has any bearing on what players will play.

Thank goodness we focus and buy games while you guys focus on what's GOTY.

@Chevalier

Excellent logic you seem to have.

So Halo, Gears, CoD and BF are mediocre because they didn't win GOTY? I guess God of War 3, Jak, Killzone, inFamous, Resistance and others are mediocre too, right?

GOTY has nothing to do with most people's personal preference. How many of the folks here on N4G were fighting mad when Skyrim won GOTY?

Was that game an achievement in excellence? Especially on the PS3?

[Chevalier]

So you don't like excellent games and only like mediocre ones that sell more? Wow. So now it's bad to make great games guys, just please make more shovelware it's fantastic!

[GodGinrai]

its not so much about GOTY as it is about a steady stream of quality exclusive games to entice core gamers to the console. It benefits us as X1 customers and MS interms of making sure they get every core gamer they can.

[palaeomerus]

GOTY isn't a guarantee of excellence. It just means that editors at a site liked it. And games that don't win GOTY aren't necessarily mediocre. What a dumb thing to assume!

And Remember God of War Ascension and Gears of War Judgement? Both sold below expectations around 1.3 million because they both felt like phoned in rehashes that had no good reason to be made apart from putting one more title out. The fans just didn't show up because they knew it was a half-hearted effort.

[jmac53]

This smells a little like desperation to me. He says people read too much into numbers on a spec sheet but those numbers mean something. Sure exclusives will be great on both systems and will look good but the real difference is going to be multiplatform with the power gap.

[wages of sin]

What he said is absolutely correct.

[joeorc]

@wages of sin

"What he said is absolutely correct."

really: here is what he stated!

"We CREATED DirectX, the standard API’s that everyone programs against. So while people laude Sony for their [hardware] skills, do you really think we don’t know how to build a system optimized for maximizing graphics for programmers? Seriously?"

the truth of the matter:

In a console-specific version, DirectX was used as a basis for Microsoft's Xbox and Xbox 360 console API. The API was developed jointly between Microsoft and Nvidia, who developed the custom graphics hardware used by the original Xbox. The Xbox API is similar to DirectX version 8.1, but is non-updateable like other console technologies. The Xbox was code named DirectXbox, but this was shortened to Xbox for its commercial name.

the real truth is OpenGL is just as viable of a graphic's API and its shown that it can be just as viable of a standard as directX.

but him saying

"We CREATED DirectX, the standard API’s that everyone programs against."

is not only Arrogance, but also OpenGL is also a standard Graphic's API that people also.

"everyone programs against"

[KILLERAPP]

November sure is going to be fun, even if you don't buy a next gen system your in for a show when the comparisons come...

[Mr-Dude]

OMG yes... It's gonna be a rapture hihi

[badkolo]

wow yyou all got owned today, love it, but go ahead, go nuts with your kiddie remarks, the proof is in the pudding.

he basicaly said for the next ten years dont expect a gap. #dealwithit

[FrigidDARKNESS]

I totally agree.

[T2]

Oh ok well since it came from an unbiased source I totally believe him , just as when mcdonalds states their hamburgers are top quality 100 % all beef ....
Lol

[MRMagoo123]

you know sony said put any game on any console next to the ps4 and the ps4 will look better every time, so if you believe this guy you have to believe sony as well right?

Sony have proved they have the better hardware look at direct feed of Killzone lol its miles ahead of anything on the xbone so far and then you add to that second son an open world game and it looks better than any game shown so far.

[Asv6SEMPER]

Am i just totally getting stupid or is Albert Penello just right now admitting indirectly that PS4 is 30-40% more powerful?

must be a fake, can't be the real One, i d'ont see Microsoft with his extreme arrogancy being now totally reamistic.

[badkolo]

well this proves thew misterx shit was fake, he is in fact saying raw number wise sony is a little more powerful but the x1 is designed better and will squeze out more or the same as the ps4 can for the next 10 years

[Metfanant]

Hey Fridgid...EliteGamer...MisterX ...

Why would Albert keep saying that the consoles are so close when you guys keep telling us there is a second GPU tucked away inside the Xbone?...are you calling Albert a liar?

[FrigidDARKNESS]

Hey Mef. He only can say things that MS will allow him to say.

[Metfanant]

Oh please...he basically admits that on paper the PS4 is more powerful...but goes on to talk about how the balance of the Xbone's architecture will make up for it...

If there was a second GPU you can sure bet the comments would be different...

[T2]

Oh ya we all waiting on that secret non disclosure agreement right ?

[windblowsagain]

I have never seen a 360 game come anywhere near this.

And on PC the only game that graphically as capable is Crysis3.

https://www.youtube.com/wat...

[waltyftm]

I have the game(thanks for the freebie Sony) and never ever get tired of playing that level, simply stunning, love them Naughty gods and Sony's kit.

[MasterCornholio]

A lot of people will disagree with me but i found the desert scene in Uncharted 3 to be absolutely breath taking.

http://wakpaper.com/large/D...

P.S Thanks to PlayStation plus i managed to play this game.

[waltyftm]

Stunning.

[starchild]

Oh please, you are so biased and blind. Even Tomb Raider on PC looks much better than Uncharted 3. This is OBVIOUS to anyone with working eyes and isn't a rabid fanboy of a particular console.

[chaand]

I think alot of you guys are crazy i mean i don't see. Anything that looks 40% percent better than anything. Unless its a huge graphical leap its non since. Why would i debate who has the best lighting effect on a face when i can't really tell now if ps4 release a game that looks like fully. rendered 3d pixar movie that run smoothly with no jagged edges then we talk until then i can careless about a extra piece of detail on a rock (xbone all day)

[solidjun5]

Eh. I'm sure in a few years both systems will be putting out extraordinary games in terms of power and graphics. In the mean time, I think we should enjoy both.

As for the PS4, I'm just waiting on Naughty Dog and Santa Monica to make use of the GDDR5 memory to its full potential.

[Jodicus6645]

Pretty sure no one should be fooled by this. Just like MS to say something to defend themselves and not get into the details. Not being biased just facts here. The statement IS true when it comes to multi platform titles, BUT in the case of the XBOX it was newer better hardware launched after the PS2 was released. Not to mention EMOTION chip architecture took some learning to develop for. The last statement also stands true for the PS3 era along with the XBOX 360. Developers struggled to learn the CELL chip architecture and multi platform became big for sales from third party developers to increase profits. Thus not much time was spent to learn it rather just to get a working version. This is why exclusives look better on PS3 then third party titles.

PS4 and XBONE era however there is not exotic chip architecture and they are both built behind the model of modern PCs. Specs will now matter and PS4 will have a hardware advantage out of the box. XBONE will have graphics fidelity increase with cloud computing...however I am not sold that this is a smart resource at this time 2 years from now yes I think very possible for everyday consumer to have the network resources available to them to make this work...this is going to backfire mark my words first person who tries to play a game offline and it looks like crap or even worse doesn't work because it can not get to the Xbox Live Cloud for the graphics computing it is gonna get ugly. But back to my point PS4 is stronger from a box to box comparison minus the cloud computing. And with both consoles having a similar PC architecture there will no longer be lazy half working ports.

[LordMaim]

Jesus Christ, Microsoft is in full spin mode today. Why do they need all the damage control? Let's just wait until November and let the systems speak for themselves.

[Bundi]

Leave JC out of this.

[Lboogieskells]

God of war 3 tramples any 360 exclusive. I won't even mention the others titles.

[KwietStorm_BLM]

Well you don't have to be "willing" to give up a power advantage. It kinda just happens.

[Belking]

This is something a lot of already knew. Fanboys need to learn the difference between actual specs and actual performance means.

[Bundi]

Them is fighting words Albert! Exciting times ahead, as a gamer I'm excited to see what this fierce competition breeds.

[XabiDaChosenOne]

Seems like Microsoft is slowly coming to terms that there is a noticeable gap between the PS4, not without the kicking and screaming of course but they are getting there.

[OlgerO]

Yeah they are practicly admitting that the PS4 is more powerfull. maybe not 30 percent, but even a few percents more would make it the best destination for games

[robotgargoyle]

Aside from Infamous series, PS3 games are "on rails". Linear games. Of course they would look better than most games. COD always looks great too, on the 360.

PS3 does has more better looking exclusive games due to MS giving up the ghost on exclusives.

In my opinion, LA Noire looks as good as Heavy Rain, Red Dead Redemption looks better than Infamous series, Gears of War series looks as good as Killzone series. Tomb Raider reboot looks as good as Unchartered.

[Guitardr85]

umm..what are you TALKING ABOUT? Do you even know what on rails means? What direct comparison are you making between 360 and ps3 games?

Anyway the X1 must be hurting pretty bad if the only thing MS and its fanboys can do is argue about the previous generation! "PS$ is better?...Well...360 games looked just as good as PS3 games so nnaaaaaa!" lol.

[robotgargoyle]

I guess "on rails" is a little off base.

You have admit, the more linear a game, generally speaking, the better graphically it is.....and a lot of these linear games have scripted moments that tire at the 2nd/3rd playthrough. The storytelling/ dialogue in TLOU was exceptional. Gameplay did not reinvent the wheel or innovate.

I admit Sony's stable of exclusives are superior. We all know it comes down to the exclusives, but people act the system is a "vastly" better experience. Multiplats narrow the gap for me.

.
Ncca 14, Madden 25, Batman: Arkham Origins, GTA 5, Diablo 3, Assassins Creed Black Flag, etc. All multiplat. In a good year you get about 3 exclusives? You get about double that in multiplat games.

[hankmoody]

The reaction I see here on N4G in regards to Penello's statements remind me of when Bill Nye (The Science Guy) effectively shot down the theory of creationism yet all the religious nuts the world over just shook their heads, saying "No No No No No" over and over again, refusing to accept facts.

The PS4 hive mind here is a bit disturbing to me.

[H0RSE]

They keep claiming that xbox fans are "grabbing at straws" for any excuse to to make the X1 more powerful than it really is, and although for some that may be the case, overall Xbox fans are just being rational, coming to terms with the fact that even though the PS4 boasts more powerful specs, it isn't going to directly translate that power advantage into a 1:1 ratio of better graphics/performance.

System parity and diminishing returns, pretty much guarantee that multiplats are going to largely look the same on both consoles. Even if the PS4 versions have better performance and/or visuals, it's likely not going to be anything substantial or noteworthy. Of course, much of this doesn't matter to many from the Sony camp, since ANY sort of improvement, even 1fps, is still seen as better, and they will use it to fuel their arguments. Where xbox fans grasp at straws trying to say the X1 isn't the weaker system, Sony fans are grasping at straws in their claims at how much better their games are going to look and play.

The only place you may see real differences, is with exclusives, and since they only release for one console, it makes these games less meaningful overall. Why would an xbox player care how great TLOU2 looks or plays? - they can't play it, so they tend to care less. The same goes for X1 exclusives and Sony fans. Multiplats are where the comparisons are going to take place, and the differences between them aren't going to mind blowing.

[JAT2304]

It comes down to the weakest link. Developers will not program the game to max out each console. They go with the lowest performer, causing that console to "look" better. I has happened with the current and previous generation of console. It happens with PC's as well, read the minimum spec's on a PC game box.

[Godz Kastro]

This is obvious by looking at the games.

[EXVirtual]

First off, Penello knows the PS4 is more powerful. It's the fact. Except it. Secondly, wasn't this the same guy who was saying specs don't matter?
This is funny. If it wasn't the case, this guy wouldn't need to say it.

[gamertk421]

He did "except" it. As in he takes exception to it. He's a straight shooter.

[christocolus]

ms is on fire baby...sonys been talking smack time ms stood up for themselves besides i like where he says not everthing about their hardware is known yet....i actually remember ati last year claiming that the gpu for the xbox one could handle avatar type graphics but since then they have been numb on the matter...ms definitly has been in the pc industry longer and are more familiar with the software and drivers that run the hardware..some months after the launch of the xbox 360 ati actually praised the engineers at ms for the work they did on the xenon gpu.ati said they were some of the most skilled set of guys they had ever worked with...and that they were very great at what they do.....ms surprise us once again pls....nice job penello. congrats to the entire xbox team....halo5...halo5....halo5

[nooneknows]

Your forgetting the lazy ass devs of this generation who are responsible for that.

Have you seen some PS exclusives? They look better than anything on the 360.

[DoesUs]

Stating things as they are, in a manner of speaking. Yes PS4 has more power, but we are not seeing it. November onwards will tell a different story, when games on both will be debated to death and peeps will see just which is the hardware champ.

Also, If 40% more power means almost nothing, why did MS bother with a mere 9% boost to the cpu, and a 5% bump to the gpu?

At the end of the day, he will defend MS to the hilt, its his job, same goes for Sony.

XB1
GPU: 1.31 Teraflops
16 ROPs
12 compute units

PS4
GPU: 1.84 Teraflops
32 ROPs
18 compute units

This is just the GPU, this is a significant gap. BEFORE the superior memory setup, and not needing to jump through hoops, and quite a number of hoops at that.

Funny stuff right there.

[GABRIEL1030]

"Playstation 4 GPU is said to be capable of 1.8 TFLOPS while it also uses GDDR5 memory for fast memory access at 5500mhz. Meanwhile, the Xbox One's GPU is reportedly capable of 1.23 TFLOPS (before the 150Mhz clock speed boost) and uses DDR3 memory at 2133mhz"

The maths don't lie !

[joeorc]

@GABRIEL1030

your right it math does not lie:

Playstation 4 GPU is said to be capable of "over" 1.8 TFLOPS while it also uses GDDR5 memory for fast memory access at 5500mhz.

that's the Key word

over 1.8! not just a max of 1.8

[jjb1981]

Sony has been an expert in streamlining quality hardware for decades. I'm not downplaying Xbox one at all but Sony knows what they're doing.

[ONESHOTV2]

its so funny that these fan boy on here hype the PS4 so much its just like when the ps3 came out they hype it up as well look what happen a few years later the games start looking not so good compare to a better pc system.. yeah this is not about pc gaming but i just hate when people hype shit up.. BTW i got a PSVITA PS3 PS2 and PSP im no fan boy i just hate some of these people on the internet that hype shit up so much

[JunioRS101]

Yeah, sure, Microsoft has talented programmers. For the software side of things...

Sony has been in the hardware game longer, and if microsoft has better programmers, where were they during the last stretch of the 360's life? Playing TLOU? Give me a break.

At least with Sony we have actually SEEN and PLAYED the evidence. We know they have the best first party support, because if they didn't, Microsoft would have given gamers a 10/10 Masterpiece by now.

Or am I wrong..? Surely the best programmers in the world should know how to make great code for games..?

Surely the best programmers in the world would know how to optimize code to fit more assets into a game that would then be visually evident upon the game's release? Surely the best programmers in the world would have given us the best looking games of this last console generation?

But no. The not-best programmers in the world gave us Uncharted, TLOU, Heavy Rain, MGS4, and LBP...

[Regis]

The Best programmers are people who can work with the cell chip effortlessly.

[MasterCornholio]

YUCK

That mutated baby of crazy Ken was a b!tch to program for. If Naughty Dog, Sony Santa Monica and Quantum Dreams were able to pull off amazing looking games with that thing imagine what they can do with the PS4?

We already have a taste with this.

Killzone Shadow Fall: http://www.gadgetfreak.gr/w...

Infamous Second Son: http://static.giantbomb.com...

The Order 1886: http://imguol.com/c/entrete...

Not a game but impressive none the less

The Dark Sorcerer: http://images.vg247.com/cur...

:)

Good things to come for the PS4.

[Regis]

I meant for how hard it is to program for I do mean that games will be much more amazing, however now those developers now have the ability to write and program for the cell under their belt.

[90Supra]

@MasterCornholio

If that's what The Order: 1886 is looking like...

http://i190.photobucket.com...

[SilentGuard]

So glad MS decided to spend so much effort developing Kinect instead of putting the best hardware possible in the system. I'd much rather turn my console on with voice commands than have the best graphics I can get.

[DarkAzureIIIX]

So when fanboys were like it doesn't matter Microsoft was like yeah it does. :)

[Niv]

There's no point hiding specs. It's gna cum out.

[MatriXcian]

The Microsoft fanboys seem to forget PS3 exclusives won Best graphics 3 years in a row.

[testerg35]

I would have to say that the PS3 was capable of better graphics because of BR. You could store so much more high res textures vs a dvd.

Now that MS is also using BR, I don't think the gfx between the two consoles will be any different.

[gnothe1]

I remember reading the ps3 was capable of 1.8 TFLOPS...so now...sony stated the PS4 was 10 times more power than the PS3 an yet the PS4 can do 1.8 TFLOPS...which one is it...either PS3 isn't what they claimed it to be or the PS4 isn't what their claiming it to be..

•1 VMX vector unit per core
•512KB L2 cache
•7 x SPE @3.2GHz
•7 x 128b 128 SIMD GPRs
•7 x 256KB SRAM for SPE
•* 1 of 8 SPEs reserved for redundancy total floating point performance: 218 GFLOPS

GPU: RSX @550MHz
• 1.8 TFLOPS floating point performance
•Full HD (up to 1080p) x 2 channels
•Multi-way programmable parallel floating point shader pipelines

Sound: Dolby 5.1ch, DTS, LPCM, etc. (Cell-base processing)

Memory:
•256MB XDR Main RAM @3.2GHz
•256MB GDDR3 VRAM @700MHz

[joeorc]

@gnothe1

"I remember reading the ps3 was capable of 1.8 TFLOPS.so now...sony stated the PS4 was 10 times more power than the PS3 an yet the PS4 can do 1.8 TFLOPS...which one is it...either PS3 isn't what they claimed it to be or the PS4 isn't what their claiming it to be.. "

omfg, for the PS3 they were talking about the entire system, that not talking about the same as just the PS4'S GPU!

AND THEY STATED WHEN BUILDING THE ps4 THAT THEY WERE TARGETING TO MAKE THE ps4 ABOUT 10X THAT OF THE ps4. TARGETING IS NOT THE SAME AS SAYING THAT IT IS!

That is talking about 1.8TF just for the PS4's GPU alone.

[Supermax]

Unlimited power.ps4 preorder cancelled.

[Hakoom]

when i see a game on X1 that can top a game from naughtydog then ill agree with noobnello

[worldwidegaming]

keep your secret weapon a secret until the very end. I am sure they have something up their sleeves or R.I.P.

[iron333monkey]

its funny how MS tries to win by comparison yet Sony just shows off the goods...and in my opinion it always pays off

[quenomamen]

@ JokesOnYou

"People DO understand that Microsoft has some of the smartest graphics programmers IN THE WORLD. We CREATED DirectX, the standard API’s that everyone programs "

And let us put ourselves in these programmers shoes shall we ? When you as a programmer are given a piece of hardware that is less powerfull than the competotion and told to work your programming magic to try and make up for that dissadvantage. I know what I would do, adjust the speed + 100 - 200 MHz, cuz other than all new hardware there's nothing much that I can do. This is nothing more than minor speed increases so they can at least say tried. Should tried harder from the get go.

[MultiConsoleGamer]

I've said it before and I will say it again.

Most of what we have heard about the power of both consoles is a lie coming from agenda motivated sources.

All you have to do is look at the launch games to know the truth.

[horndog]

Look at all the fanboys trying to make themselves feel secure and confident with their eystem. Its like someone throwing a rock at a hornets nest. The only defense they have against the fact that no game on ps4 looks 40% better than any xbox one game is their specs. Lol!!

"Bu but teh spekz on Teh pAPer

Bu bu but teh Math "

BUTthurt is what you guys are. We still haven't seen a game on the ps4 that shows 40% more power than x1 and never will.

[GraveLord]

PS4s GPU has 40% more power. That is a 100% a FACT.

How that will translate into actual game performance is yet to be seen. We haven't really seen next-gen games running on final code on either console.

Multiplatform titles will look better on PS4. That's just a fact. If you can't accept that you are delusional. Numbers don't lie. As of right now that is all we have, NUMBERS.

Come November we should have more than just numbers, we'll have full on BENCHMARKS from website like Digital Foundry.

I have a feeling these "fanboys" are completely justified in touting the PS4s extra horsepower and at $399 the PS4 is the best console for multiplatform games. Period.

[marchinggamer]

YOUR FULL OF SHIT. Your 40% benchmark is based on TF(teraflops) which if you actually knew anything about hardware would know is about as accurate a gun without a calibrated sight!

[Azfargh]

You must be a time-traveller to affirm they will NEVER will achieve 40% more than XBone.

[jairusmonillas]

Deal with it. PS4 is 40% stronger and 20% cheaper.

Blame it on Kinect, not only it made Xbox One weaker it also puts a useless expensive tech as mandatory and so it increases Xbox One's price but its real value is really $350 without Kinect. LOL

[GraveLord]

Looks like he's on full-on damage control mode. Its only a matter of time before he gets banned from Neogaf.

Numbers don't lie. PS4 wins in that deparments, if you say the numbers don't tell the full story, you're right. And that goes for not only the Xbox One but for the PS4 as well.

[marchinggamer]

I'd love to hear about these "numbers" considering there hasn't been any benchmarks yet. Also what the specs currently shoe they are about equal

[buynit]

the damn consoles are going to be about equal.. Ps4 is not going to have this massive advantage in power that everyone on n4g claims..

Ps4 fanatics need to get over it...

40% more power is a lot! Enough to make its game look noticably better yet nothing on the ps4 looks better and none of its games are doing anything amazing atm...

[tubers]

OFC! They can probably threaten the publishers if the PS4 version isn't on "parity".

http://www.dailytech.com/So...

"We're a little biased, so obviously we're going to look to protect our own space as best we can and get exclusivity," said Chris Lewis, head of Xbox Europe. "Whilst I can't be specific about the terms and conditions, you can be very confident we seek to maximize our own advantage to ensure the playing field is even, and certainly plays to our advantage wherever possible.

[marchinggamer]

Im just laughing in the background because none of these people can even read specs/ understand what they mean. "OMG GUYS THE PS4 IS THE BOMB GUYS GDDR5!" Funny thing is I can't wait to see that slow ass gddr5 working with the cpu.

[BIGBOSS08]

november will be the beginning of a very rough time for microsoft. they really should have just shut up a long time ago. the sales will be so heavily in favour of PS4 the first year, theres nothing microsoft can do to counter it. they need to take kinect out NOW and release at $399 to even have a chance and even than i doubt it would outsell PS4.

see ya later microsoft. cant say you didnt try hard with the xbox and xbox 360 but its time to give it up.

[sandman224]

Everyone needs to stop judging, we can read all we want about specs. But in the end its up to the developers to utilize the power. If the devs don't take the time and money into there game it's not that big of a deal. From what I've been reading about certain games like bf4. It's said to look comparable to medium settings on PC. At 720p so it can't be that powerful.

[_FantasmA_]

Is there an hour that passes by where some MicroDouche doesn't make an ass out of himself by bashing the PS4? I mean can't they just brag about their system without mentioning the PS4? Are they really that insecure that they have to compare themselves and try to steal the spotlight? M$ wishes it could be like Sony when it grows up. Unfortunately, they're still a bunch of babies.

[883]

This is happening too often -- to the point that not only does it look terribly suspicious, but potentially embarrassing.

One has to wonder if MS is outright paying for forum PR/damage control in order to make it appear that the public perception of their product has changed more than it really has. I don't blame them too much if they have/are doing such things. However, the fact is that generally the gaming community momentum is VASTLY in favor of PS4 and the agree/disagree here on N4G are usually a good indicator of this. BUT and it is a really big "BUT" all of a sudden there come these odd waves/cycles and perhaps more importantly, it is often for only the first hour or so of a new story where the pro Xbox-One agree/disagree numbers seem to either match or even exceed the pro PS4 opinions. Then things return to normal (massively in favor of pro PS4 comments) after that first hour or so of comments or for another week.

Seeing the above pattern I wondered if I was the only one who noticed these patterns and ended up finding this conversation. Makes me at least wonder if N4G agree/disagree buttons are getting some MS love in this fashion.

http://www.giantbomb.com/fo...

[JuniorCE]

PS4 graphics beat Xbox One, difference is noticeable, says developer!

http://www.examiner.com/art...

[McScroggz]

You could be the greatest architect to have ever lived, but if your building is 10 stories shorter saying, "Don't you think I know how to build great buildings!" doesn't do anything to prove your point. By nearly every measurable and logical assumption the PS4 is mathematically more powerful with the added bonus of things like a unified memory pool and fewer potential bottlenecks. I suppose the Xbox One could be basically as powerful as the PS4, but there is simply no evidence or reason to make a logical leap that it is.

I don't fault Penello for standing up for the Xbox One, just like I don't fault Microsoft for trying to create hype for Ryse; but at the same time it is kind of sad that even a relative laymen such as myself realizes how much of a farce these statements are.

[gamer2013]

Albert Pennelo says that there are things about the XB1 system architecture not fully understood. He also go's on to say that there is no way that they are giving up a 30%+ advantage to Sony. After Hotchips, I'm still trying to figure out what the additional 8gb of flash memory is for and wonder why people aren't talking more about it's purpose and advantages. I'll bet that if it was PS4 news it would be over 1000 degrees and according to certain fanboys, officially seal the doom of the XB1 though!

Well I'm not a developer or a techie, but I think that there is more to the story here then meets the eye. No poster here or on any other site knows more about the XB1 and it's capabilities than Mr. Pennelo. I think that the sensible thing to do here for everyone would be to give the man the benefit of the doubt.

[McScroggz]

"I think that the sensible thing to do here for everyone would be to give the man the benefit of the doubt."

He works for Microsoft, so if anything we should be skeptical. One of the reasons so many people, especially people into tech, love Cerny is because ever since the reveal of the PS4 he has given a lot of specific information about the console and realistic examples. There is a difference between a Sony guy (who is the lead system architect) saying their console is this powerful and more powerful than the competition while backing it up with facts and examples and people at Microsoft just saying there are things we don't know about the system.

I mean, if I were Microsoft and there really was secret things that made the Xbox One a lot more powerful than people thought I'd be talking about it every chance I got and I'd be very specific about what it was.

[kewlkat007]

%s..it's amazing what fanboys hold on to..

[SynestheticRoar]

If your buying anything specs matter. PS4 is the higher spec console. Plain and simple. THE END.

[Kos-Mos]

Same s***, different wrapping. And you kids will make a war about no difference.

[Silly gameAr]

This guys should just quit talking.

[gigoran]

I wonder what fault they have built into them this time. Having at failure rate of over 50% at one point in time is nothing to be proud of.

[jairusmonillas]

PS3 and 360 had different processors/gpu, while PS4 and Xbox One have almost similarities, no cell BS. Pure comparison and PS4 is 40% more powerful. If Microsoft wanted a strong one they should've drop the silly kinect zzzzz

[first1NFANTRY]

Still not getting an xbone

#dealwithit

[i3eyond the Circle]

I know Ps3 exclusives look better visually but aren't games like Halo 4 more technically advanced during gameplay? The lighting, the scale, the particles, destructibility, physics, 4 player Co-Op, less scripted scenes and more in your face action?

I'd love to see a first party Xbox360 built on the same premises with the full hardware and proprietary engines. Alan Wake is a sort of taste of what the Xbox360 could do with the smoke and mirrors approach...you see in most Ps3 exclusives. Fixed cameras, graphically enhanced in-engine scripted scenes etc.

They all look great but actually in your hands gameplay only Killzone seems the most robust and graphically good but even then that game doesn't have a large scale.

[Azfargh]

This is an option of the game director, nothing to do with hardware.

Imagine the consoles as batteries. They have power to do many things, but you choose were and how it will do what they have to.

Simple as that.

[Bolts]

All of this power advantage isn't worth a damn unless the PS4 can render all games at 1080p. The PS4 should get to this baseline first, then do all games at 1080p 60 FPS. Those are the bench mark that the bench mark for this gen. If the PS4 is so powerful then are the native 1080p and 60fps shouldn't be a problem.

[SatanSki]

Truth is, without knowing all hardware facts noone, even ms and sony cant say what the gap is. It can be bigger and it can be lower. Only games will show

[nukeworker1]

The last of us fuck!ng sucked! Quit lying to yourselves. Every ps fanboy has their pannies in a wad whatever happen saying heavy rain looked the best? Those self proclaimed Sony titles is a one a done deal! 6 months later everyone is saying heavy rain what? Last of us who? Lol you butt hurt fan boys find anything to whine about!

[Sadist3]

I keep hearing all this talk about Sony has this and Sony has that. I don't care how many teraflops or whatever the system has, that doesn't matter. I want to see the power, and right now I don't see all this superior power over the X1. I don't want to hear, "well the Last of Us looked fantastic." The Last of Us was one of the last PS3 games made before the PS4 is being released. So basically you're telling me to wait 7 years to see the superior power the PS4 has over X1? Yeah right. I believe what I see, not what I hear.

[FinalomegaS]

err once november release passes and the good old boys at NeoGaf break the HW of both down... it's going to be a whole lot of mud flying.

going to make all these threads look like a walk in the park.

[FANTA1180]

lmaooooooooooooooooooooooo

all these kids in here , talking about hidden power inside of a console

a. non of you physically have a ps4

b. you dont work as a sony engineer

c. you have zero knowledge about anything except for what you read online.

people throwing numbers like they are sony's head chief ...lmao

keep assuming.

[Rhinoceros]

The equation is clearly more complex than A + B = C. Fanboys wanna tie a ribbon on this thing, but the package is all hot air and speculation. Gamers need to fall back.

[FANTA1180]

agreed.

[Rhinoceros]

Xbox detractors have such an ego, and we don't even have all of the information yet! Calm down, children. We will get our TRUE benchmarks eventually.

[IQUITN4G]

Graphics look great now on both current gen machines and so anything xbox1 outputs will be even more impressive. These things become even less important outside of internet sites, with the general consumer not having a clue. Games next gen on either console will look gorgeous

[corroios]

After all that Microsoft told and went back, i dont understand how come any true hardcore gamer believe in any off the stuff they are saying...

They tried from the start to hide the specs and they were caught off guard by sony. Then start to talk about the power of the clouds, but it didnt work because it was explained. then they were forced to changed every single new policy for the xbox one. They even changed the fact that Kinect can be disconected.

[dmeador]

Dont think anyone will make it down to this comment, but I'd just like to say about 1 in 3 comments on this sound like they are from someone who only knows what a GPU and GDDR5 memory is from what others have said on the board. Sad

[iliimaster]

this is stupid xbox360 never put out a game that looked better than god of war 3

[gano]

Fuc xbone they are lying that is all.
360 couldn't touch the ps3, so dvd was better thn bluray.
what happened to hddvd again.

[iliimaster]

lol right why go to bluray then they have copied sony at every turn 100 $ more for a webcam and features that hide behind a pay wall if i was sony i would release a controller exactly like the 360 and sell it for 30 bucks

[CuddlyREDRUM]

In fact, he added...

"We will overclock the system until it starts of fire before that happens"

[fsydow1]

Here we go again, Microshit trying to spin again,lets overclock the CPU and see if our games can hit 720p and at least 30 fps. Lol ,don't these guys ever learn.

[gamer2013]

Hey! Who let the 12 year old in here?

[fsydow1]

Hey, stop letting Microsoft jerk you off in your twisted little reality,lol.

[Kidmyst]

And MSFT one thing we have all heard this gen is the PS3 was tougher to develop for than 360 so many games were developed on the 360 and that's why they maybe looked slightly better or ran slightly better. BUT devlopers have said very openly the PS4 is much easier to develop for. So it'll be interesting this gen how Developers create games on multi plats after a year from now when they get more comfortable with them.

[MonkeyOne]

I'm more disappointed that there's no SSD option for the hard disks on these systems because I have a feeling that 500gb disk is gonna be slow as shit and that will be a bigger bottleneck than memory bandwidth.

[Soldierone]

So in other words, MS will be opening their wallets again for timed exclusives and hope that third parties restrict content to match on both consoles, AGAIN. Meanwhile Sony's first party studios slowly creep away with better everything, and the fanboys just go "you cant compare first party to third party!!!!"

And third parties will come up with excuses galore to avoid saying "we had to hold it back so its the same experience...."

How about instead of kissing butt, we wake up and demand that the known 30 percent of lacking power be fixed???

[Izzy408]

and then...... you woke up.

[Soldierone]

So you are happy with MS holding things back just so they can rush a console to shelves and make a quick buck?

When they could very easily push the power up 30 percent with a simple improvement?

[Izzy408]

Here's the thing, NOBODY really knows the full specs of the X1 hardware; therefore nobody should be crowning the PS4 as the most powerful console just yet.

As far as 1st party games are concerned, there is no PS4 exclusive game that shows "ps4's superior" graphics over the X1 exclusives.

Overall, I could care less what MS does to the X1 from here up until release date as long as the console is reliable and capable of rendering great looking games.

[Jamaicangmr]

"Penello then brought up similar instances where Sony and fans of the Playstation proclaimed superior performance with the PS2 and PS3 before concluding that, "in the end, games on our system looked the same or better."

When did Sony claim the PS2 was more powerful than the Xbox? I remember reading an article where Sony actually stated that they didn't need to be 1st or the most powerful to win and made reference to the PS2.

If i remember correctly the PS2 was even less powerful than the Dreamcast.

Someone needs to shut the guy up. I find it funny though how he makes direct reference to the PS4 but i don't hear people screaming about MS taking jabs at Sony. Does it only work one way or i guess its because we all know at the end of the day the PS4 is more powerful PERIOD.

The PS3 is and has proven that it is more powerful. The early days were hampered by programming difficulty and hardware familiarity. I admit that the difference between multiplats are negligible, alot of times it's because MS paid devs to not utilize the PS3 to it's full but make the games as similar as possible but when all else fail the exclusives for both systems speak the truth.

[DoubleM70]

You were making a great argument up until you said Microsoft was paying the DEVs to make the games look similar as possible. Everybody did not have time to optimize a game to PS3 specs. Like a first party Dev could. They are just working on one platform, but a 3rd party was working on multiples and the tools were just better on the 360.

[Jamaicangmr]

"I’m merely saying that anyone who wants to die on their sword over this 30%+ power advantage are going to be fighting an uphill battle over the next 10 years…"

Just noticed this, so MS is adapting the 10 year plan as well. Interesting how that was overlooked.

Game on.

[DoubleM70]

I'm pretty sure if you give a first party Dev 3 years such a Naughty Dog to work on game it should be outstanding.

[unicron7]

The reason why 360 games ran better is because of the ease of development dummy. The cell was hard to program for. Simple as that. Now you lack a power advantage AND an ease of development advantage. Sony is going to smoke you in the looks department this gen. That's just a fact. Microsoft die hards can keep making up all the excuses they want to defend their bullshit this upcoming gen...but I'm going to where the Sony franchises are and the superior hardware at a better price.

Microsoft is raking you guys through the coals and all you keep saying is "Mmmmm more." Pathetic.

You know how I can spot a fanboy? When they go against all logic and reason when picking a console. I see absolutely no reason to pick up a XB1 over the PS4 at this point. The only thing I can see is people preferring those exclusives...but personally, I don't see what the fuss is all about regarding them. Titanfall is timed, and dead rising I can live without. The rest: Multiplats that will perform better on my PS4.

[DoubleM70]

Do you believe that when all the latest Engines are build off of Direct X11.1. 3rd Party will perform better on Xbox platform. Also Hardware specs are on paper lets see real world performance. Here that damn Titanfall thing again. Microsoft invested money into Respawn to bring them dedicated servers. Don't hold your breath for TitanFall seriously.

[unicron7]

Direct X doesn't mean crap when it comes to multiplatform development. Ease of architecture is what matters. Keep living in fantasy land if you think Microsoft titles are going to have any performance advantage over PS4 titles this gen.

Keep ignoring the fact being put forth in front of you. That seems to be a growing trend among Xbox loyalists around here. Luckily, they and their lame excuses are in the minority.

On paper it outperforms and in motion it outperforms. It's as simple as that.

[lawgone]

@unicron7 "You know how I can spot a fanboy? When they go against all logic and reason when picking a console. I see absolutely no reason to pick up a XB1 over the PS4 at this point."

Really? You mean like you just did? Considering neither console and no games have come out yet you sure do know a lot of facts. You must develop for both systems. Basically you're believing every piece of Sony PR and trashing every piece of Microsoft PR due to a bias. If you were logical, you would calm down and realize they'll both have very similar performance (just like last gen). Maybe you'd even go as far as waiting until they come out and playing some games on both consoles before making wild claims about what each one is and isn't. You know, because you're logical.

[unicron7]

I'm using logic when it comes to released information. It's completely obvious that MS is being outperformed in specs and price...and yet people are sticking their heads in the sand. Shit gets old after a while. I've seen several stages of grief on various forums since MS unveiled the XB1. People still seem to be stuck in the Denial phase. Wish they would catch up to the rest of us who are in the Acceptance stage.

Accept that it is overpriced for what you are getting. They are trying to screw you as a consumer.

[BLow]

The 29th is coming people and the landscape of gaming will be changed forever when MS reveals the GPU. Get ready folks its going to be a bloodbath!!! This day just needs to hurry up and get here so then all the fans for both consoles can go at it. It's gonna be great!! Can't wait!! I'm being sarcastic people...or am I.......hmmmmmm

[gamer2013]

Oh god I hope so for the sake of the Internet! I don't want to go through another generation of Sony nerds beating their boney pasty white pigeon chests. It's really come to the point of being unbearable. I'd happily settle for a reveal that completely levels the field between the two removing any advantages of either.

[srd4484]

AMD to release their new GPU on Sept 25th. On Sept. 26th, Phil Harrison will present an Exclusive XB1 presentation. AND at the same event, 3rd party games will FINALLY be shown off. Meaning BF4, Ghost, FIFA, etc...Seems odd they're showing off in EU but nothing at PAX or Gamescom.

[xKugo]

Is so sad to watch you Xb1 rely so heavily on this rumor of an APU+ dGPU architecture. The fall back to Earth from dreamland is going to be tough for you guys.

[DoubleM70]

Another thing if you think the gap is that big on $400 and $500 dollar hardware your sadly mistaken. The Arch is very similar Sony the better GPU, but Micrsoft has the better software.

[unicron7]

Better software is completely subjective. I think Killzone SF and Second Son blows away anything I've seen on XB1 thus far.

[lawgone]

Sony fanboys never cease to amaze me. It's comparable to talking to little kids who's best replies to information contradicting their world view is, "Nuh uh! Nuh uh!"

Last gen, fanboys said PS3 hardware was vastly superior to the 360 and claimed games would look noticeably better. After the systems launched, numerous comparison videos showed games that looked nearly indistinguishable between each system, if not slightly better on the 360. It's the same thing all over again.

But I digress. The bottom line is this:THEY WILL BOTH BE GOOD SYSTEMS. ENJOY THEM. PLAY BOTH. PLAY ONE. WHO CARES. JUST SHUT UP ABOUT IT ALREADY!

[noctis_lumia]

uncharted 1
uncharted 2
uncharted 3
god of war 3
god of war :A
LBP 1
LBP 2
RES:2
RES:3
GT5
MGS4
The last of us

these are some of the games that crush every single xbox 360 games out there ans shows why the ps3 is indeed the most powerful of the two kkthxbb

[FANTA1180]

you are the epitome of being a fanboy.

personal opinion doesnt mean you are correct.

[unicron7]

Dang...forums are being hit hard by these clowns right now. lol Paid MS drones no doubt. Can't fool us guys. An inferior product is an inferior product. No way to escape that.

[MyFPS]

Im sure xbox will do great and ill get both but i bet a thousand pounds the three different software types running on it slow the heck out of it.until they tweek it in a few updates. hopefully there be an option to disable the hdmi entertainment feature.

[Mkai28]

Penellos video interview with Adam

http://m.youtube.com/?reloa...

[srd4484]

AMD to release their new GPU on Sept 25th. On Sept. 26th, Phil Harrison will present an Exclusive XB1 presentation. AND at the same event, 3rd party games will FINALLY be shown off. Meaning BF4, Ghost, FIFA, etc..

[xKugo]

I think part of his comment is true, in the since that perhaps the power gap between the PS4 and XB1 won't be as signifigant as some people want to believe, but at the same time, the notion that Xbox 360 exclusives held their own against PS3 exclusive is just flat out wrong. They neither had the diversity, graphical fidelity, game-play or appeal that the Sony exclusives possessed. I know many Microsoft fans like to point out Halo and how it sells boatloads but there is one equivocal fact that any gamer can agree to: Sales do not equal a great game. I think that Halo, just like Grand Turismo, is living off of former glory. Look I'm building a high-end PC now, but before that I was a die-hard PlayStation fan and even I will tell you that Halo 3 will probably go down as the greatest FPS game ever made. That game was pure genius and addiction in the form of a game. I have no shame in admitting that but at the same time, the Halo games that followed were lackluster at best, especially Reach,which ironically sold more units than Halo 4(Imo the better of the two games). So yes, while Xbox exclusives sell like hotcakes(Gears and Halo) they didn't have the zest that PlayStation exclusives did. Btw this is no knock on Microsoft developer talent because they have just as much talent as Sony developers do(taking Naughty Dog out of the equation). However, because Microsoft is so bent on getting the most MONEY out of their games, I think they very deliberately hinder creativity and supplement it with mass appeal(aka tried and true franchises). THIS is my main problem with MS, coupled with the fact they clearly don't care about their HUGE hardcore base, is why I will never be a Xbox gamer again.

[Harpers_Ferry]

I don't care at all about performance numbers one way or the other, this guy is coming off as far too defensive, and it's unprofessional as hell.

If there was any lesson to be learned from Don Mattrick, it's that sometimes it's simply better to keep your mouth shut.

[Izzy408]

The truth is nobody, and I mean NOBODY here really knows the full specs of the X1. So for those who desperately want to believe the PS4 is 40-50% more powerful than the X1, how about you hold off on that until we know everything about the X1 hardware.

[Rhinoceros]

+1 bubs to you, Izzy. I don't understand how folks are willing to go out that far on the limb to say what they're saying before all information has been disclosed.