MS surprised by 'how negative' reaction was to Xbox One DRM

Microsoft's director of product planning Albert Penello says the firm expected controversy over its original always-online Xbox One pitch, but was surprised by "how negative" the reaction was.

[Irishguy95]

They should've paid attention to the last 10 years then. Maybe they just saw it as other companies get away with it why wouldn't they?

[zeal0us]

All they had to do was pay attention to the incident Adam Orth caused before the May Conference and E3.

[JokesOnYou]

Yeah micro really f-d that up. I still think the bigger problem was mixed message rather than drm itself, lol you could tell they hadn't done a "hotbrief"/ consumer focus panel which is ask themselves the worst questions or purposely try pick holes in the plan, you had different spokesmen contradicting each other....if you come out with that type of idea you need a solid plan AND reward users with incentives. Ive talked to at least 20 folks here at work and ALL of them would rather be able to share all their paid for games with as little as just 2 close friends online as oppose to being able to sell it back to gamestop.

vvvv I wouldn't say out of touch..just plain wrong, a mistake, misjudgement, bad call, yo know it happens same as Sony or any other company who makes a poor decision, if they wete perfect then customers would always be happy if they were "out of touch" then they wouls STILL have the same policies.

[Anthotis]

That just shows how out of touch Microsoft is.

[MestreRothN4G]

^
Yup, I'm surprised by how surprised they are.

Well, actually I'm surprised by how surprised they CLAIM TO BE. I don't believe this recent "oh, but I didn't know you didn't like DRM BS".

[tehpees3]

They perceived the Adam Orth reaction to a bunch of internet users making noise.

[abzdine]

they still have DRM in their mind? i believe they will bring it back at some point but i dont hope so for the X1 owners at that moment.

[blackbeld]

Ohh mann.

I not gonna be surprised when they put back that DRM crap. Once the instal base is big enough about 30 million they will force DRM through your throat.

I hope for the best.

[DragonKnight]

The only way they could have been surprised by this is by admitting that they don't listen to the consumers. If they had, like many above have said, then they'd never attempt to do so. It's either that, or they looked at Apple getting away with it and thought people wouldn't care. But different audiences have different ideas on things like this and, as the provider of a product, it's your job to research what people want/like and what they don't want/like.

[P0werVR]

@abzdine

Very true, and why you are not expeting of them not thinking of DRM is beyond me.

But given the situation in what they provide at the end of it should benefit most gamers depending on the inevitable transition to digitalization.

DRM will restrict gamers (something frowned on) to a sustainable digital ecosystem and why true gamers hate this. Even if it becomes successful it's perceived by most gamers that it won't last long and some gamers actually believe in this, FACT!

So you are very right in what you claim along with most console gamers even if they don't know better, boy is gaming going to be sweet for PS4 owners long enough to see the rise of cloud computing. Oh YEAH, Outlast day one!

[Omegasyde]

@blackbed

I completely agree. Once they hit their sales goal after say a year what prevents MS from reverting policies?

By that time, the Xbox one install base has two options buy a ps4 or "deal with it".

I know "some" users were upset that Sony removed otherOS due to piracy/exploits. Who is to say MS won't just "flip the switch for DRM" to ON and state the same thing? All they have to do is update terms of service.

.

[Darrius Cole]

No, the problem wasn't the messaging, it was the message itself. There is no way in hell they are going to get my money and then own the game at the same time.

I don't care who they are... Microsoft, Sony, Valve, Nintendo, etc.

[user5575708]

Honestly the reason i think they were so shocked is because they were so honed in on what they were creating they forgot what the average consumer actually likes, and who those consumers actually are.

This is how I believe they think

Microsoft: buy our console. you dont own it. its ours. but you can rent it until we discontinue the service...or when your internet goes down

Microsoft: hmmm preorders are terrible and internet is angry. lets retract all the negatives for now and release a day one update. then when our install base is high enough and people have invested enough money...we'll slowly bring back DRM and restricted use of used games in a new update...and we'll give everyone free stuff at that time so they don't notice

[badz149]

@Anthotis

out of touch? what an understatement. I personally think that they were too deep up their own arses!

[dantesparda]

"MS surprised by 'how negative' reaction was to Xbox One DRM"

Then they are f-ing idiots

[indysurfn]

Are you listening Google and Apple? They are signaling what you need to exploit! Apple and Google are both wanting to enter the console market. Guess what? If Google is Sony's only competition with a retail disc, then Microsoft would be pushed OUT of the games market.

So Microsoft is only think the online requirement was the problem? What about never really owning a game? Paying a fee to sell your game.

Needing a sever to play would also mean once xboxtwo comes and they turned off the 300,000 severs the xboxone would not longer function(conveniently way of forcing your customers to upgrade).

What about only being allowed to sell it to a store they approve. Only being able to buy used games from a store they approve.
All this is BS, they tested our reactions several times, and even talked about polls over a year before the February reveal. So I call bs. They just thought they could wait until preorder sales came in, and they would be in business from loyal fanboys like me, and get away with it. WRONG I now hate microsoft can't wait on my PS4. Even if it had been 1/2 the power of the xboxone I will not sale myself out, not even for you mastercheif!

[nosferatuzodd]

they surprised at that then they don't anything

[N2NOther]

Or the uproar people were in for months ahead of the reveal surrounding the rumor that the new console was going to restrict used games. It blows my mind that they were either deaf to it, or straight up ignored it and then were "Surprised."

[mewhy32]

Surprised? How in the heck were they surprised? You tell people that they can't do what they want with the game that they paid for and then tell them that you have to have an internet connection at all times to even play or your xbone becomes a blu ray player only? How did they think that wouldn't piss people off? They just thought that they could do what ever they wanted and people would just go along with it. Then came Sony and pulled the rug right out from underneath them LOL. Sony did listen to gamers and now they're reaping the benefits.

[kostchtchie_]

@JokesOnYou

is there reason you have so many stars on site where you are heavily disagreed with on daily basis, i think i will get mod to look at your account

[MazzingerZ]

He says some people "understand" today and want that back, always online, in other words he just said MSFT will reintroduce DRM in the future once gamers are ready for it according to MSFT of course, they will say gamers demanded it

[nirwanda]

@JOY
The problem with MS vision of sharing your games was that it was limited to an hours play only so I would rather own the disk and lend them the full game instead.

[Regis]

I believed people are mad at the 24/7 DRM and pay to play on another xbox DRM

[zeal0us]

The DRM was way too strict. The primary function of a game console is to play games. No one want their $500 console to become utterly useless after 24hrs of not connecting.

[kneon]

I think the real problem wasn't that is was too strict, it was that you had no choice.

They should have provided two options

- Play games from disk and continue on as you always have
- Install the games from disk or download and be able to share your game, but then you have to deal with the always on and DRM

Forcing it on people was the root of the problem.

[vigilante_man]

@kneon
You hit the nail on the head. They should of gave those two choices. Well said!

[StoutBEER]

Agree with you kneon. I don't think anyone could have said it better.

[Darrius Cole]

@kneon

Nobody would have bought into the DRM if they had been given the option. Well, not nobody but almost nobody.

Nobody is going to pay for a game that they can't sell back, when they can pay the same money for a game that they can resell. People do that math in their head instantly. No one would buy the DRM system if they had the choice to buy a system with no DRM.

Microsoft was hoping to use its brand loyalty to coddle / force its fans into the DRM system. But it wasn't going to work. When the pre-order numbers came in low they changed out of fear. Pure and simple. Fear is the best motivator.

[kneon]

@Darrius Cole

I've only ever bought one used game, have never sold a game and only very occasionally lend out games, and I'm not the only such person.

For people like me there are some advantages to what Microsoft was proposing, though it would need some tweaking before it would be acceptable to most people. For example they should have allowed you to play even when you can't check in every 24 hours just by inserting the disk to prove ownership.

Had they given people a choice and found the right balance between restrictions and convenience then this all could have turned out very differently.

[Darrius Cole]

@kneon

I buy used but very rarely, probably 1 out of 10 games, I buy used. Even then it is mostly stuff that is more than 6 months old. I almost never sell back. I still have Soul Calibur 2 for the Xbox 1(the real "1"), and KOTOR.

But the point here is not really the behavior of the consumer, it is the value in having the option. Options to buy or sell when and if you want to, have value, that's why they trade them on Wall Street.

Checking in over the internet is the only way to police any DRM. There has to be a way to know that they person actually has a copy of the game and is not simply using a copy that he made from someone else's disc.

The change you listed is how the XBO is now. It doesn't have to check-in after the 1st day patch (which is still going to upset some people who don't know that), but the game disc has to be in the tray.

[Anon1974]

Right here this tells me there's a problem. The fact that they didn't anticipate this level of negativity to their DRM scheme says to me they couldn't be more out of touch with gamers, and it worries me for the console going forward. If they had even pitched these policies to a room of even 20 gamers they would have quickly understood how this would be perceived. Hell, even the rumors of the possibility of this type of DRM was setting gamers aflame months in advance of when they actually made the announcement.

They just weren't paying attention, or were simply too arrogant and dismissed what gamers were saying. Saying, "We knew we'd piss people off but not the majority" reminds me of the early days of the 360 when they knew they had problems with 360's coming off the line but choose to ignore the problem, publicly denying there was even a problem for over a year because, really, it was only affecting a minority of gamers anyway.

What does this say about the company when they were again willing to thumb their nose at gamers until the mob rose up and took them to task, forcing them to back off? People have in the past criticized Sony for arrogant comments related to the PS3's launch (and not without merit in some cases), but what does this comment illustrate, showing Microsoft was willing to piss off gamers from the get go, just not realizing how many gamers it would actually turn off?

[princejb134]

lol honestly i dont see how they didnt anticipate it
like common are they really that stupid to shove weird policies down peoples throat
24 hours checks up for the game you play? like really MS, sometimes my internet provider acts funny and i cant get online
trying to eliminate used games? this will benefit the developers no doubt, but how about us poor students that cant afford brand new games, so we use gaming to get away from our studies for a while
the list goes on and on

but to me MS is lying they knew people will react to it but they just didnt think their loyal fans would care enough and still purchase the console

[Baka-akaB]

They anticipated it of course . They just chalked it up to us being a minority of angry nerds and the world being supportive .

[XabiDaChosenOne]

This comment was so on point that it's balancing on the head of a pin with it's eyes closed.
"We knew we'd piss people off but not the majority"
This comment right here tells me they knew that thier policies were going to piss of the hardcore fanbase but they thought the causals were going to roll over and take it anyways. How wrong they were, lol these guys are unbelievable.

[Narutone66]

If they are surprised by the negativity of the DRM, they are more clueless than I thought. The sad thing is, they are implementing it right now under a different name/guise, and hired reputation managers are spreading lies here in N4G.

[schlanz]

Totally agree. It's crystal clear they don't give a flying **** about core gamers beyond their loyalty to Halo, Gears, and Forza. They are more focused on their own schemes on how to get mass market appeal while circumventing core gamer concerns. Well that's come back to bite them in their smarmy asses, and their reversal of fortune and backtracking just makes them look more pathetic than ever at this point. They clearly over-estimated the ability of their core franchises to appease what would be the early adopters of the system to the point of forgiving all their bizarre rules and restrictions.

It doesn't matter how much they believe in their product's original vision, without early adopters, or rather, with most early adopters rushing to the PS4 that would spell out a disaster for MS.

Now they say they listened. Now they care. Get real, MS. You never did care, and you still don't.

[BuLLDoG909]

Surprised ?, i guess MS ran out of super lube, their just surprised that gamers wont bend over and take it so easily anymore. MS got biatch slapped back to reality.

[donman1]

Typical Microsoft... just simply have a disconnect with consumers. Its all and only about making that dollar at all cost. Plus winning the American market this current generation clearly gave them false hope in implementing that failed DRM policy.

[stuna1]

All this adds up to is Microsoft saying they didn't know! No difference from a judge telling a criminal that ingnorance is not an excuse for breaking the law!

Bullsh#t is obvious and Microsoft is playing on the gullibility of their consumers! Just think a software giant that doesn't realise the negative as well as the positive consequential effects of DRM!? That statement alone should pry open some eyes, for the simple fact people should already know that PC's gave birth to DRM! and who has developed software for PC's since when? Microsoft!

So to me all this is saying is Microsoft is trying once again trying to deflect and minimize their own mistakes.

[Deadpoolio]

They literally just wanted to see how far people would let them put it in....They did the same thing with the XBLG, people said they were crazy and nobody would pay to play online or have everything locked behind a pay wall, and because they were right that time and people were willing they just assumed that they could push this and everything would go their way again...

They would have had better luck saying if you buy digital it will be like they wanted it OR you could continue to buy retail discs and it be the same way it was on the 360...

Even though literally none of those restrictions or anti consumer crap were at all necessary for a digital "future", Sony has been offering 99% of the games digitally day 1 for like 3 years and NONE of those restrictions were necessary.

[rainslacker]

In their software division(outside gaming) restrictive DRM is absolute. It is registered to a single computer in most cases.

However, they aren't ignorant of the views of DRM, and since people have been complaining about DRM since it started being used in the internet age, MS knew full well what they were getting into. They just believed that their product was more desirable, and that people would overlook it because they wanted to play the games so badly. They learned the hard way that you can only push people so far and so fast. They tried to hard, and failed because the benefits didn't outweigh the restrictions, which was the complete opposite of other successful DD models...such as Steam.

[MysticStrummer]

"They should've paid attention to the last 10 years then."

Even if they ignored all that, they could have just paid attention to the months leading up to the reveal, when all the DRM rumors were going around and people were vocally opposing the idea.

Actually, some weren't opposing the idea as much as just saying "PS4 will have DRM too!". Even they knew it was bad, but it was ok as long as Sony fans got the slap too.

[rainslacker]

There were a lot of the "It's just the way it is people", but I was still really amazed at how few supporters there were for the whole idea. Not just on here, but across the whole net and gaming media itself. Things have gone back to normal troll/counter-troll discussions since the reversals, but for a few weeks there was some uniformity among the community.

[-Superman-]

Microsoft does not read people comments, or feedback? Did they really not see that from EA thing? Really?

[adorie]

If MS are surprised, then that can only mean they don't know their fanbase well, or are out of touch.

[dasbeer88]

Whoever were surprised by this negative reaction should immediately be fired. As far as I'm concerned, about 80% of the workers at MGS (Microsoft Game Studios) should be laid off and replace them with people who has true experience with video games.

[StoutBEER]

We'll if you look at it as trying to please consumers most every one is online with everything they do. Music, movies, TV, shit even games. The miscalculation on their part is that it's most. Not all.

[YNWA96]

I do believe MS messed up, but they would have gone to publishers and asked this before announcing. As much as MS screwed it all up, I would like to know who else was behind them but stayed quiet because of the backlash. There is no doubt some of the big guys want this, but time is not right. Future consoles from all will be DRM, just hope its not like IOS.

[iceman06]

That is indeed true, but also part of the problem. Instead of getting in touch with the consumers, they just talked big money with bid money people. So, OF COURSE they would be on board. DRM, itself, is not the real problem. The problem is the restrictions of the DRM and what options the consumer truly has inside the ecosystem that is set up by the company. Stream has managed to figure out a great way to have some restrictions and also provide an incentive for the consumer. THIS should be what any company must do to be successful with DRM. However, the fear is that the console makers and publishers collude to get what they want and leave consumers with no choice but to buy in or play somewhere else.

[-Foxtrot]

After how bad the SimCity DRM was.....REALLY Microsoft

[Deadpoolio]

Or Diablo III. Or Final Fantasy 14...The list goes on and on

[bigfish]

There we go, its what weve all been waiting for- confirmation that MS are not a video games company but a money interested corporation. They were oblivious where as sony would never had made the same decision as they are a proper video gaming company at heart and passionate rather than profit orientated.

[xXxSeTTriPxXx]

They saw that pc gamers would take it up the a$$ without a real fight, so they thought console gamers would follow suit.

disagree all you want tis plan turth.

[Retroman]

"MS surprised by how NAGATIVE WAS TO XBOX 1 DRM"

really??? oh' shut up with that lie.
if MS will make a PR comment make it true for heaven sake.good lord these companies just lie for the hell of it and expect consumers be blind sheeps.

[DeltaCanuckian]

Or the reaction to months of rumours beforehand.

[TheXgamerLive]

DRM was/is a good thing, it's the future of video gaming and its best for developers that spend hundreds of millions to make your fav games while comp like ganestop profit hundreds of millions.
9year olds and the uneducated were the voice of change sadly.

Sorry, im a bit angry about the whole thing.

[nypifisel]

That's not how consumer behaviour works with any other product so why do they think they can force it? It's quite frankly not even how the law works (not in EU anyway)

[shutUpAndTakeMyMoney]

MS is retarded

[nypifisel]

See MS isn't as innovative and forward thinking at they would like you to believe, quite the opposite. Launching a console which main focus is Live TV is a perfect point seeing how Live TV is on it's way out. GO PROGRESSIVE THINKING!

And being surprised at backlash when you're trying to screw your customers just shows how disconnected MS truly are.

[Irishguy95]

The Xbox division sure...MS as a whole?

[nypifisel]

Maybe not every part of MS but just look at Windows 8, Windows RT and all that crap. It's just terrible.

[Jazz4108]

Ms cant contract it without being sued. Ms will never revert back to the original plan but I do see them adding the family share plan which people enjoyed. If you think ms would revert you must be a sony fan wanting them to be sued all over. Its over they messsed up and corrected there ways and the consoles still not even released so there is no damage to anyone legaly.

[JetsFool3500]

& they still didnt learn there lesson smh

[TheDarpaChief]

Bill gates is probably a heroin addict by now with all of the shit going down in this console race

[Irishguy95]

I doubt he gives a **** to be honest.

[ginsunuva]

Bill Gates doesn't care; he's not really involved with MS anymore, especially the console division.

[TheDarpaChief]

Really? Thats news to me

[Eldyraen]

I doubt he really cares too much about it.

The whole Xbox division could fail and be would still have more money than the console brings in.

[Deadpoolio]

Bill gates retired years ago he literally has NOTHING to do with Microsoft anymore, he just sits and home and collects his checks for his company

[ABeastNamedTariq]

I hated it. It was wayyy to draconian.

[wynams]

I hated it too.
Also, anyone buying in to the 180 definitely needs to be aware that MS likely will return to those draconian DRMs once the install base is saturated.

If you trust MS I can give you my paypal email for some quick "loans"

[yellowgerbil]

that right there is why no one should buy an X1. They are completely out of touch.

[cell989]

its funny cause now theyre blaming their loyal fan base for not "keeping up with the times"

[theWB27]

Give it a rest with "no one should buy an X1" crap. Completely out touch? They expected controversy, but not to the extent it became. How is that out of touch?

They have fixed everything and then some with the every X1 is a dev kit, if you're accepted into the program then it's free, free self publishing. Kinect not needed for the system to function.

Free games in Europe....there are people out there who would genuinely rather game on Xbox than PS or Wii.

We'd have the exact same system as when they first announced it if they were truly out of touch.

[Xsilver]

so ur saying we should turn our backs on Sony who did everything right and jump to microsoft who was doing everything wrong and now changed how about .............................. ..............NO.

[XabiDaChosenOne]

" They expected controversy, but not to the extent it became." So your telling me that they predicted that taking away basic consumer rights were going to upset "some" people? MY GAAAAWWWD!! What black magic is being performed at Redmond HQ to forsee these revelations? For the love of Christ! Can you be anymore of a tool?!

[yellowgerbil]

You good sir are a sheep. Baa to your xbox overlords.
They were not trying to expand gaming, they were trying to CONTROL gaming. For that they do not deserve anyone's business. A year down the line once they've actually been punished for their misdeed then I say go and buy to hearts content. Right now the only disciplining they've recieved is a stern talking to. They need a spanking to set them straight, just like sony needed back in 06. That spanking reared them into the Sony they are today.

[fsfsxii]

Daaaaaaamn. O_o
What an MS sheep you're.

[Darrius Cole]

Which girl should I choose...

The one who was always loyal and honest.

OR

The one who cheated on me with my best friend but has since stopped, when she saw that I was going to leave her over it.

You don't get points for fixing things that are a blatant violation of basic policy and trust. Microsoft came into this generation with the intent to abuse their loyal fans.

[rainslacker]

If they expected controversy, perhaps they should have prepared for it better than, "Have you seen the games", and "We have the 360 for those without internet", and "Have you seen the games"(yes I meant to say it twice, because it was their go to thing).

You say(elsewhere) that they had a grand vision for the future of gaming where convenience and integration were king...I say, why couldn't they actually tell us what that vision was?

I still, to this day, don't know what their true vision for the system is. Well I can figure it out for the system, just don't know what their vision is for the future of the gaming industry, and I care more about that than I do about them having totalitarian control over my media content purchases or usage habits.

As far as I'm concerned, MS can do whatever it wants with all it's media features, Kinect, etc, but until they can prove to me that they actually care about the game industry, they have lost my respect.

[Sitdown]

So you knew exactly how negative people were going to react? Let me use an example for you.....if I tell you I am going to hit you in the head with a hammer.....you anticipate it will hurt, but until it happens, you do not fully understand the level of pain. That does not make you completely out of touch with the source of pain....just somethings you can't fully prepare for, and only increase understanding through experience.

[Del_B]

This is a brilliant yet flawed analogy to describe MS's situation. My counter to that analogy would be that over the years, gamers have been hit on the head with many things (ranging from newspapers to even other hammers) and each time they have gone ape-shit. Just because you have been hit with a hammer multiple times doesn't mean it won't hurt if you are hit again. Gamers have always been quick to hugely overreact (though I don't think this situation was a massive overreaction). Therefore the reaction should have been somewhat expected.

[coolasj]

This video is going to be quoted for the rest of the week. Do yourself a favor and just watch it now.
http://youtu.be/8QrZP0AmUvk

[Skynetone]

thanks for the link

I actually think hes a good spokesman for xbox, hes not following some scripted pr bs and not avoiding the questions

[rela82me]

That was a great interview... I think any quotes taken will be twisted to make people arguments better. However I heard nothing I'm upset over in that interview.

[stage88]

It shows how out of touch they are with gamers.

[negative]

You mean the minority of whining internet crybabies??? Then yes they are out of touch.

@cell989
Arrogance?? or the balls to take the next step forward and change how everyone plays and shares games. while $ony simply improves graphics.

Talk about being stuck in the past...

[cell989]

no the million preorders they missed out for their arrogance

[MysticStrummer]

"Arrogance?? or the balls to take the next step forward and change how everyone plays and shares games."

Enough people didn't want what MS was proposing that they had to change their stated plans multiple times during the next few months.

Telling people what they should want is arrogance.

[Deadpoolio]

You mean a step that Sony took a few years back right? Cause they have been offering day 1 digital on about 99% of every game released for about 3 years now, and NO it didn't not require trying to control their customers...

None of that was ever necessary for a digital "future" cause the digital future has been here for a while now and it didn't require anyone to tray and fist their customers rectums

[sAVAge_bEaST]

Letting a friend take over for you, in game, over the internet- but like your playing in the same room, That's a step forword,[=[
Making it more of a social network,and sharing 1 of a kind ,in game moments, That's a step forward, [=[
Letting game devs, make CrosSxPlatforMxGaming between PC, and Ps4, that is a step forward, [=[
-xbox does not allow cross platform gaming, now that's a step back.

[ape007]

out of touch??

xbox one is the most complete nextgen system out there, nextgen gfx, nextgen online gameplay using cloud dedicated servers for almost every game

conclusion: xbox one is more complete than ps4

good luck countering that

[Imalwaysright]

Without a strong 1st party? Couldn't disagree more.

[stage88]

I'll counter all of that with just one word and number.

PlayStation 4.

[davez82]

Why is microsoft still talking, do they never learn

[SegaSaturn669]

They're microsoft, much like the titanic, they thought they were invincible. Such arrogance. I wish they ended up at the bottom of the ocean. Windows 9: under the sea.

[Imalwaysright]

Are they surprised that we aren't idiots? Is that what MS thinks of us? That we are idiots?

[GryestOfBluSkies]

yes they do think that. drm was "ahead of the consumer" according to an earlier quote

[Imalwaysright]

I saw it. Downright insulting.

[JokesOnYou]

@Imalwaysright
"Us" well first you'd have to be a Xbox 360/X1 fan for these policies to affect YOU. Your history unless you've suddenly had an emphiphany certainly does not suggest you were ever a fan of either. Yet you cry foul and clearly you only like the console that was in fact sticking with traditional policies. I think xbox fans like me are the one who had a dog in the fight here and thus what could have been good for me is gone because people who were never buying a X1 or at least don't talk as if they are interested in buying one complained, as for the xbox fans who did hate the proposed drm, I understand their point and the merits are debatable and Im sure we could have a reasonable conversation about it because at least they have a dog in the fight. I just think its funny how those who should care the least are the most vocal.

[Imalwaysright]

I'm A GAMER and these type of comments are directed at me and at all the gamers in this world. Step down from your Xbox fanboy pedestal. You're not more special than any other gamer in this world. Not even MS thinks that you MS fanboys that defend them at every turn are that special after all, they made all those 180s for people that would NEVER buy a X1 and are not X1 fans, despite you corporate apologists, NOT Xbox FANS, saying that you were ok with them taking your rights as consumers.

Oh and if they think that we GAMERS wouldn't fight tooth and nails for OUR RIGHTS and that we'd be ok with our hobby becoming more restricted then they surely believe that we are stupid.

[ThatCanadianGuy514]

Well..

Xbox fanbase is..you know..

[Bundi]

On second thoughts, you aren't worth the bubble.

[ThatCanadianGuy514]

"On second thoughts, you aren't worth the bubble."
And yet, you wasted one.

Just proven my point lol.

[MysticStrummer]

@Bundi - Your comment is perfect evidence of what DayZ said...

[fsfsxii]

They were targeting the misinformed public, and guys like ape007, theWB, jokesonyou and the rest of the xbox clowns.

[OrangePowerz]

I wonder why people didn`t like that they couldn`t trade in their disc based games or that they had to connect every 24 hours.

[Regis]

You need to see that I have a life and that I am not always on an xbox if I could take it too my job everyday then I could but my job requires me to leave all electronics in a locker in the break room.

[OrangePowerz]

???

[Angeljuice]

You got me there Regis, what on earth are you talking about? I did lol for the randomness, so thanks for that. I've got to give you a bub + for funny (even if I don't understand).

[ToffeeNoseNelson]

I got it Regis, all of it and I LAUGHED OUT LOUD

[cell989]

the arrogance keeps reaching new levels, they really havent learn their lesson yet, they still dont think theyve made any mistakes, those DRM features will come back once they have a big enough install base, when xbots are in so deep they wont be able to abandon their xbone, thats when MS will bring the original policies back into full force

clearly its the gamers fault- Microsoft logic

[Gamesgbkiller]

"So was I surprised that people had a reaction to it? No. I mean, we knew it was going to be a controversial decision. Was I surprised how negative the reaction was going to be? Yes,"

FUCKING LOGIC!!!!!!

[jXales]

i still dont see why it cant be an option? 24/7 checking gives X perks. of keep offline without perks?

thats the bullshit that they claim X then reverse. and cant see the consumer friendly option standing infront of them.

online checkin was most likely advertising oriented imho.

.

[GryestOfBluSkies]

why are they even still talking about it... they are completely clueless.

[GarrusVakarian]

I'm surprised that they thought the reaction would be positive. MS act like they can do no wrong and then always seem to have reasons why it isn't their fault when people disagree with them.

You would get alot of respect if you just admitted you made mistakes every now and again instead of insulting your fan base.

[rainslacker]

A little humility does go a long way at times.

[solidjun5]

"MS surprised by 'how negative' reaction was to Xbox One DRM"

Well, when you have an employee -well former employee- named Adam Orth saying "Deal with it," do you really expect gamers and the media to accept the DRM policies with open arms?

Also i think the family share plan -this still wasn't explained well cause i thought publishers would want this as this would cut in sales- was a good idea from what I gathered. I think it was the 24/7 DRM implementation that was causing angst.

[staticdash22]

I'm not holding against them anymore. I moved on, but it did hurt my perception of the xbox brand and I probably won't buy another one of their consoles. Was microsoft paying attention to the build up before the may 21st console reveal? The adam orth situation? The always online rumors? Were they looking at the forums? Where was their research that they did for the past 8 years of the 360's lifespan? I think MS was trying to be too ambitious, we're only living in 2013 not 2030 and not the 22nd century.

I think MS has alot of cool things they want to do, but they feel like they're being held down by the consumers who "aren't on their level". it sounds pretentious, but I think that's why the american market gets so much attention from the brand besides it being american native. One of the most developed places, with certain internet speeds being great. But they are not realizing that the average consumer isn't living a 100% digital lifestyle. It's just not happening.

[hankmoody]

I didn't have a problem with any of what they were trying to do but they bungled it with the presentation. I'd have to be a true fanboy not to be able to admit that.

[Chapter11]

Goes to show how out of touch MS is. Buying Nokia, the Zune, Windows 8, X1 DRM. Has MS done anything right in the last five years?

[Regis]

Buying Nokia is a good move for them they could then expand there marketplace on to Nokia phones without any extra charge as well as make the Nokia phone able to interact with the xbox on so many levels.

[Angeljuice]

Yes Nokia were going in an odd direction with their own app store where everything was overpriced compared to apple and android (that's probably what excited Microsoft most about them). I think it was probably a wise decision (on both sides).

Oh man, did I just praise Microsoft *washes mouth out with soap*

[Patrick]

lol, Yeah, they figured if they could get away with selling so many defective products, they could get away with anything. Shame on people for disagreeing with them, their Microsoft....lol

[Bundi]

I know right? I mean what gamer doesn't want to have their rights infringed on like that? I mean why were people complaining just because you guys wanted to control what we do with our games that we paid hard cash for?

I hope the sarcasm isn't lost on you guys.

MS really should get their heads out of their rears when it comes to this issue! They dodged a bullet when we forgave them, they should just shut up now!

[Angeljuice]

" I mean why were people complaining just because you guys wanted to control what we do with our games that we paid hard cash for?"

Correction: with "their" games that we were allowed to license off of them at full retail value.

[Lionalliance]

Well no shit!

[Activemessiah]

They had plenty of heads up from the rumours regarding the PS4 having DRM, Sony did come out and say there wasn't but the backlash was there... that was enough of a warning not to go through with nazi sh*t like that.

[torchic]

by "how negative" they mean how bad the pre-orders were.

[Ashlen]

We knew people weren't going to like it, but we did it anyways.

[joeorc]

@Ashlen

"We knew people weren't going to like it, but we did it anyways."

the

[break a few eggs to make an omelette]

but for Microsoft those few Egg's, were Grade A and were not going to just sit there and not let Microsoft break them without telling there would be Bacon and toast to go along with the Eggs unless someone does something now to stop them.

smile.

[WeAreLegion]

So, nobody who works at Microsoft uses the internet? That would actually make sense, if they're only allowed to use Internet Explorer.

[Angeljuice]

They all use BING so the internet just kept telling them how great Microsoft are.

[WeAreLegion]

Haha. Have you tried the Bing It On challenge? I chose Google every time.

[nooneknows]

Huh? What kind of statement is this?

You didn't see the negative out bust to the rumors? C'mon man. This is kind of a weird statement. People were already on their tale because of rumors and you don't expect a negative out bust when its confirmed.

[chrissx]

Microsoft is the real life umbrella corps

[quenomamen]

So you admit you guys are clueless about what gamers want then ? Another reason I pre ordered a PS4.

[vigilante_man]

They WILL bring in DRM in less than 2 years.

Firstly for digital only and then for all disc based games from a certain point onwards. And you know what? People will still accept it - makes you wonder...

[EXVirtual]

EXACTLY!! I can't believe how foolish people can be. This is why companies pull this BS. I will never accept DRM. Not now, not in 20 years.

[kenshiro100]

I'm surprised that they're surprised about the backlash. What did they expect?

[OC_MurphysLaw]

I think they expected some back lash...but not to the level that came. I don't honestly think anyone saw that level of back lash coming ....nor did anyone honestly think they would pull the 180 they did so quickly.

I said it before...and will say it untill it gets written...their needs to be a book written about this.

[corvusmd]

Old news, this horse has been beaten to death enough. Yeah, they tried to push games into a digital realm like Steam succeeds with, yes they were surprised at the backlash of console gamers that don't understand and aren't ready for this...yes they paid a huge price for it and still are. However, continually bringing this up is just pathetic now, it's old....it looks like someone that just wants to hate MS but really has no reason why. If everyone looked into what was actually happening, I bet at least 70% of people that say they hate it, would get over it quick once they realized it wasn't that bad, and actually allowed for some good things as well. EITHER WAY, it's done and over, Sony was experimenting with the idea too, so picking on MS for this is old and tired...stop living in the past.

It just seems insecure that everytime MS starts gaining momentum with XB1, someone has to say something like "did you know that XB1 was supposed to have DRM???" "I bet it comes back some day" It's just scare tactics all over, leave it alone

[Gamer666]

Personally, owning over 2,000 games on my Xbox 360, and buying many both at retail and digitally...

The new policies would've saved me a crap load of money! (Buy retail, get digital free)

I would think MS would want people like me happy... Not the people who only buy a few retail games per year. They don't make as much money on that crowd as they do from me.

[MasterCornholio]

I didn't like their DRM policy at all. In my opinion it was a lot more restrictive than it needed to be. But since Microsoft reversed their policies it really isn't an issue anymore. However i will never forget what they tried to do to our rights as consumers.

http://www.xboxshun.com/

We won and that's all that matters.

[OC_MurphysLaw]

I thought his answer was pretty honest. "So was I surprised that people had a reaction to it? No. I mean, we knew it was going to be a controversial decision. Was I surprised how negative the reaction was going to be? Yes," said Penello

Doesn't sugar coat it...they knew it was going to not sit well with some... they just didn't know it wouldn't sit well with the vast majority. Once they realized it was not just a vocal minority but in fact a majority that were unhappy they pulled the trigger. E3 was I am sure that tipping scale.

[sashimi]

Microsoft so out of touch with the common people...

[SpideySpeakz]

No one likes DRM. There's absolutely no benefits of it for the consumer. The sad part is, MS actually thought gamers loved it. This is the reason why I'm sticking to Playstation.
They are clueless, and really don't understand gamers.
That's why the 360 has not had 1 single good exclusive in the last 4 years.

[OC_MurphysLaw]

Steam users completely ignore the fact that their is DRM. That was the test case/barometer MS thought they should be looking at.

[SpideySpeakz]

But look how cheap Steam games are. There's literally a sale everyday. I remember getting a brand new AAA title for $29 on Steam.
You really believe MS was going to lower the prices of AAA titles on XBL if DRM was implemented? The publishers would never agree to that.
Beside, console gaming should be more convenient than PC gaming. That's one of the many purposes of owning a console over a PC.

[OC_MurphysLaw]

@MassEffect23 I get the comparison you are making and I do agree that console makers wont ever truly get to Steam level sales, prices, frequency as it stands today. But there are real world reasons for that.

As long as Sony, MS and Nintendo have actual boxes to make and sell they will forever have to play nice with retail stores. The Best Buys, Walgreens and Gamestops of the world are where those boxes get sold so they can't just go in and completely undercut them by large margins on software offering online. Software is where most of the money is made for all with regards to consoles. Steam can under cut retail because they don't make a box to sell at retail. Therefore they don't care if they are selling games cheaper then retail. Publishers may curb steam pricing for new games but they are more than happy to sell copies later on at discounted prices.

You also said "You really believe MS was going to lower the prices of AAA titles on XBL if DRM was implemented? The publishers would never agree to that." The publishers would never agree to that? Really....cause they do. The agree to that on Steam, they agree to it now on PSN & XBLA for all of the online digital games. All of those games have DRM attached to them.

[AceofStaves]

I think what surprised MS most was how quickly the negative perception of the XB1's original policies seeped into mainstream media. If it had simply remained a hot topic on gaming forums, groups, and sites, we wouldn't have seen the degree of backlash that countered the XB1 reveal all the way up to post-E3.

If the negative reaction had remained amongst the 'hardcore,' I doubt MS would have changed its policies. But once it directly impacted pre-orders, the company quickly realized the had to adjust course or face possible domination by Sony once PS4 launched.

I give them props for doing a pretty decent job of adjusting to the stark realities they faced, but they brought it on themselves by doing such a piss-poor job delivering the product's message.

[OC_MurphysLaw]

well said... I think you summed it up pretty well.

[Roper316]

@ Omegasyde

" All they have to do is update terms of service. "

Couldn't agree more, everytime I have said that everyone says MS isn't that stupid & would be sued if the put the DRM back in.

These fools don't realize that once they agreed to the new TOS prior to updating it takes away all their rights legal action.

[joeorc]

@Roper316

"These fools don't realize that once they agreed to the new TOS prior to updating it takes away all their rights legal action. "

Yes and No, you can still keep your system from an update, but you may not be able to install newer games, or use the online function of the gamer's network. Also unless the other functions need or require such an update to the new firmware you may still be able to use the other functions without the need for the update, it just may depend on what are the software requirements.

As for legal action, you would still be able to bring forth a law suit, but being able to win such a law suit may not be in the cards, though that still does not preclude your ability for you to bring one against any corp.

[christocolus]

its all over now....getting my very own xbox one very very soon...good job ms

[_cyrax]

How can you not expect a negative raction, which world were you living? You tried to force the future on everybody when it wasn't even close

[Scatpants]

If I could share games I wouldn't mind the DRM so much. They should have had game sharing with digital games and still leave the ability to purchase used games then it would have provided the best of both worlds. Why they got rid of sharing altogether is beyond me. That was the only new feature that I was actually interested in. As it is now they provide zero resons for me to buy it over the PS4

[diehllane]

I agree that things will eventually go all-digital.
I think that if you want to transition that way and have the DRM in place, you'll need to offer incentives.
Why should a digital copy of a game that I can't resell or give to a friend cost the same amount as a physical copy that I can trade into Gamestop or sell on CraigsList when I'm done with it?

They need to reward gamers for making a sacrifice and going the all-digital route.

I think everyone understands there needs to be some special DRM in place for all-digital to ensure you can't take that downloaded game and upload it onto a torrent site for someone else to download onto their machine.
I doubt that daily connectivity is the best way to go about it.

[Asv6SEMPER]

I am more suprised how they can still think about the DRM after all the massacre.

[N4GJD]

Now Microsoft is trying to get everyone to perceive them as the good guy? There were no benefits to anything they planned to shove into everyone's throats. And family sharing would have been far more harmful then used games.

[BX81]

Shoving down throats is an exaggeration. They presented some dumb ideas that the masses didn't want and then they changed them. I hardly call that shoving down consumers throats. Could they have had a better plan? Yes! Did they make it right in the end? Yes!

[AtomicGerbil]

Months before the reveal a 30 second session on Google would have given them enough negativity to realise it was a mistake.

They fell into the same trap Sony did pre-PS3 in thinking they were untouchable. Never underestimate anybody who is passionate about their hobby.

[Gondee]

We lost a lot of cool features because people heard DRM and bitched their tits off. fuck the uninformed

[SilentGuard]

No reason family sharing can't be done with digital downloads. MS screwed up when it wanted to force disks to function as digital downloads.

[BX81]

I didn't mind the whole drm thing as much as kinect needing to be connected. I like the idea of using the net to do different things but needing it to check in to play what u payed for is f@cking stupid.

[AceBlazer13]

Exactly they had some good ideas,but somewhere along the line they just screwed up.

[JunioRS101]

It was so negative because you only talked about the bad things and never once mentioned the biggest bonus of DRM services like Steam, which is CHEAPER games!

If everyone had any clue how incredible Steam Sales are, they would never have complained about the idea.

Getting AAA games for $5-$15 just a month or two after original release makes you reconsider how much you value being able to share or rent games.

[AceBlazer13]

Simply mentioning it wouldn't be enough.They needed to bring that cheaper price tag up front.But no they wanted to take and not give.If they're serious about this digital future they best as be willing to go balls deep.Meaning take a hit for the beginner of the transition and then when everyone sees that this could benefit them the profits come in.

[cheetorb]

Like most corporate America (and government for that matter), these douche bags are so out of touch with the everyday person. That's why they are failing so bad.

[AceBlazer13]

Really Microsoft your surprised? Well a crap idea usually gets crap results.Surprising isn't it?

[MultiConsoleGamer]

This company is clueless.

[Jneal7]

Turns out gamers aren't too fond of DRM. I know, I know, who woulda thunk it?

[mt]

I am surprise why no one buys my expired milk from my local store.

[Enigma_2099]

Given how fast you did that about face on the policies, I imagine this is true.

[EverydayGuy]

Bad timing overall, with Edward Snowden leaks of the NSA. Putting people on edge, then suddenly MS announcing DRM and Kinect always online requirement push people over the edge.

[MotherLight]

Microsoft is so full of shit. I can't believe anyone even listens to anything they say anymore.

People knew the system had DRM before it was even announced. Did Microsoft care then? Did they care when thousands were making petitions to stop it from having DRM prior to its announcement..? No, I guess they just missed how everyone cared about this long before they actually showed the system to anyone.

Surprised my ass. Any person who uses the internet could easily see how displeased people were with the ideas of DRM long before then.

Microsoft didn't give a shit then. It was only until they saw it would affect sales that they gave a shit and decided to change it. Nothing stopped them before hand from seeing people did not like it. They still released the thing with DRM but instead expected it to be forced onto users as if they just wouldn't care that much.

The big difference here is they thought they could get away with it without anyone complaining. They knew all along no one liked the idea of DRM. So this surprise shit doesn't fly.

I don't get how anyone is fooled by their sappy crap right now. Oh we never knew it would receive such back lash, oh it came as such a surprise...

Poor Microsoft, like a billion dollar company like that doesn't have analyst who are literally paid to do just that. Sit around looking at trends but yea sure they never noticed this before.. It was all a surprise and such a shock because DRM has been so well received in the past right Microsoft?

[xbone_done]

Really Microsoft? What arrogance.

[FAT MAN GO BOOM]

MS thought gamers were mindless followers and that stealing theirs consumer rights would be a breeze ... show a game or two and they would come calling... But that did not happen that sent gamers running because we are not as mindless as MS hoped.....

not to worry they will try it again... and sooner then you think...

[unicron7]

Meh, they are still mindless if you ask me. The fact that anybody still wants to buy an Xb1 baffles me. MS's word is laughable at this point. They are so out of touch with fans.

[demonicale666]

Just shows how out of touch they are with the world. NOBODY likes DRM, are they stupid or something?.

[hollabox]

The problem being it was all about presentation. Sony had/has allot of the same policies but knew how present it better.

[-Gespenst-]

Then they're truly out of touch.

[LordDhampire]

Jesus microsoft is dumb, all they do is try to emulate other companies, steam can be a always online service because you have to download the games in the first place, its not trying to sell you discs

ios is maibly a phone os, so of course your alway going to have service....

If microsoft had used BING to search DRM it would of seen how much people hate it....microsoft really has no clue...Im so glad ballmer is leaving maybe things will start to look up

[JuniorCE]

Well... Stealing money from people with DRM wasn't a great idea...

[Kidmyst]

I would not be surprised if MSFT re-introduces the DRM policy in some fashion down the line. It seems they and some developers (IE: Cliffy) really wanted this.

[yellowgerbil]

Consoles will never succeed as all digital. It is not a matter of time, no you did not jump the gun, no you are not forward thinking.
Discs are important in many ways. Most importantly seeing a game on a store shelf is the #1 way most people learn about games. Only a small percent of gamers are hardcore to the point to where they follow sites like this and follow companies.
Digital games are good as a supplement but the industry will suffer greatly without disc based gaming and AAA blockbusters.
Ouya is doing great is it not?
PSPgo was a smashing success was it not?
PC games sell better than console do they not?

[steve30x]

They werent looing at what steam is doing because you only need to login to steam once and then you can play offline for as long as you want without having to login every twenty four hours.

[unicron7]

Shows how out of touch they are with their fans, and why I preordered a PS4.

[MasterofMagnetism]

They really are idiots to think that those policies were a good idea.

[Minute Man 721]

This is the reason I'm getting a PS4 at launch, was leaning with the X1 first unlit I here DRM. The majority of gamers are not idiots. Want proof? Look at how the Sony brand fell all because of the launch price of the PS3

[rathic]

The thing people never bring up, and the most concerning to me is the issue of servers. When Microsoft or any company that decides to go the route of online based DRM decideds to end support for a game and that games servers, we all effectively lose that game.
I had this happen recently to me with mercenaries 2. This needed a connection to the server to play and since the server was taken down due to lack of players I was unable to play the game. With the ps3 I could use it offline and the issue was corrected. If you have a system or games that require an always online connection you can start to see how years down the road our older games might just disappear with the flip of a switch from the company that chooses to no longer support a game or server. This is the most concerning issue of online DRM pertaining to software for me. Especially since I personally love to play my older classic games.

[schlanz]

"People got in their minds that what we were trying to do was evil or anti-customer when, in fact, we were looking at what Steam does, we were looking at what iOS is going, we were looking where the customers were going and saying 'I think we can actually give you a better all-digital experience."

Is he for serious right here? *FACEPALM*

Steam and App Store/Google Play:
NO SUBSCRIPTION FEE
CAN PLAY YOUR GAMES OFFLINE
STEAM HAS ABSURDLY GOOD DEALS.. DAILY
THEY ARE 100% DIGITAL

Honestly we can all understand DRM on a digital game and that there isn't an option to re-sell a digital title. Most, if not all of us, are okay with it because there really isn't any BS involved, and the games are typically cheaper to begin with.

But to tell us what we can and can't do with PHYSICAL MEDIA... you are out of your f'ing minds, MS.