PlayStation 4 Boss: Microsoft's Xbox One Policies Surprised Us

Andrew House, president of Sony Computer Entertainment, on the battle for next-gen console domination.

[black0o]

''we constructed our E3 presentation because there was somehow a suspicion that the policies and approaches taken by our competition would create an industry trend in that direction. The reason we made such a strong statement at E3, and continue to do so, is because we were surprised by that''

thanks sony for saving us the gamers

[showtimefolks]

no doubt sony saved gamers this gen, otherwise MS and EA would have charged for for every little thing

[Skips]

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

Will never be forgotten... It will go down in gaming history and will no doubt be in one of Sony's montages. lol

Almost 14 million views from a 20 second video. XD

[Outside_ofthe_Box]

Despite what has just been said we will STILL have people saying that they were 'waiting' to see what MS was doing.

[AbortMission]

I like how when I "like" a comment on N4G, the likes go up by quite a few Lol

I'm seriously just glad that MS abandoned their DRM crap. No matter how much of a screw up they did, at the very tiniest least did they backtrack on that crap. Now we gamers won't have to deal with that EA-level bull$hite

[jah-Fu]

god that is stupid. hyperbole much

[ZodTheRipper]

I'd not even say that Microsofts approach with the Xbone was bad, it's rather the fact that it was way to customer unfriendly and restrictive. Some ideas certainly had potential but I have rather Sony's extremely consumer friendly approach than some good ideas cause in the end, I want value for my money and Sony managed it to become one of the top companies in general, who offer exactly that.

[Sleepless]

Digital distribution model (Steam like) is going to happen in this generation on XBOX and PS4....Sony just delayed it....I mean...these consoles lifetime is like 10 years, so it will.

About Indie games, I think they fit better mobile platforms ( mobiles, Vita, DS..), their market is going to be much bigger than consoles and they have power enough to run most indie games.

[ZodTheRipper]

Sony delayed nothing, Sony is completely supporting digital distribution while keeping the physical media for those who prefer it. I don't know what you are talking about.

Further more I wouldn't say that Indie games fit better on mobile platforms, maybe on handhelds but certainly NOT on smartphones or tablets. You can't properly play games with a touch screen and I tried it many times. Indie games on PS4 are a good thing as long as the traditional AAA experiences are there, and we all now they are because that's what keeps the gaming business running.

[abzdine]

one more reason to buy a PS4. maybe that DRM will come back one day on xbox, MS have no dignity they change message everytime

[Gaming101]

Phil Spencer, Boss at Microsoft Studios is on record as saying 'the concept of a digital ecosystem “remains a core philosophy” for the console as it evolves over time.'

That's code for "Our DRM policies will slowly but surely return in hopes that customers won't take notice/won't want to trade up for a different console when they've already invested tons of money in games and accessories for their X-bone"

You will never escape those policies, Microsoft even said the infrastructure of their DRM policies were hard wired, they can easily adjust and go back to some version of those policies anytime they want to. That's capitalism for you, so don't be fooled!

[badz149]

I think, aside from the higher ups in Microsoft, everybody else was caught by surprise for that matter.

[quenomamen]

They're still doing it bro, $5 per character in Killer Instinct. Aaaaaaah MS you never cease to surprise me.

http://www.gamespot.com/gam...

[showtimefolks]

Gaming101

That's the thing i will never trust MS when it comes to gaming consoles, right now they are saying all the right things but they will back track again and its guaranteed

MS turned away from core gamers for past 3 years yet fanboys still defend them, i guess enjoy your dance central or kinect type games 4-5 years from now when we will still be getting excellent AAA exclusives

jah-Fu

people like you deserve xbox one and MS, a match made in hell and also enjoy paying for each character in KI, EA and capcom are already influencing MS

Sleepless

you do know that sony is pushing digital downloads right? many big games were available to download 24 hours before on ps3 so we can play at midnight. But in your eyes only MS can push digital because they used the magic word CLOUD GAMING

when sony actually bought a company for $340 million just for cloud gaming

also indie games don't deserve to be on Mobile, touch screen gameplay will never ever replace Controllers. NEVER

quenomamen

but fanboys don't want to see it that's the issue

[showtimefolks]

you want to play free to play
well pay for xblive

you want to record your gameplay
well pay for xblive

you want to use netflix
well pay for xblive

almost everything is behind a paid wall, i don't know how anyone can defend MS. If one company which is in the same damn business can offer those things for free why can't MS?

keep back tracking MS, you haven't learned anything from last gen or sony/nintendo. You keep saying wrong thing and show wrong features only to later back track and call it listing to consumers lol

i guess sony already knows what consumers want so they don't have to back track

MS wasn't going to include headset or hdmi cable in the box, only reason they did it because sony was doing it

no shame in learning from sony MS

[nukeitall]

When we naturally all move to digital games, and disc is finally considered stone age technology, the digital polices will not have changed.

That means, Steams pioneered policy of not being able to resell, trade, gift or even lend your games will be available.

MS is the only one attempting to pioneer this, and in order to do that, they *had* to be sure that when you no longer possess your game, you no longer have access to it.

That is the only way you could do it!

We just got held back half a decade in physical disc stone age whereas most other mediums already are moving rapidly forward to digital. Blu-ray sales are shrinking, music cds has shrunk, and physcial book sales are shrinking too!

We don't need costly and polluting physical media anymore.

[Serg]

@Nukeitall

Physical disc stone age... spend more than half a second of thought on that topic and perhaps you will realize how stupid this statement is.

Games on PS3 range from 7GB multiplatform games with 3 hour campaigns and 5 MP maps, to 50GB behemoths. That was 720p.

Now we have 1080p, which almost doubles the texture size. In other words, games will get even bigger next gen, making 50GB a must for over 90% of full price games.

XBox One and PS4 come with 500GB of storage each. Around 430GB is the usable space on such a hard drive, minus 5-10GB for the OS, savegames and patches. You get 420GB of free space for games, which results in 8 games. In other words, ridiculous. And if someone was going to mention USB harddrives... don't even bother, the fact that you think you can run games off of a USB harddrive says everything about your technical expertise, or lack thereof.

On to the next, and perhaps biggest problem. The average internet connection in homes is only around 10 MBit/s, and that is a generous estimate. Which means it would take 12 hours to download a 50GB game with 10 MBit/s. Publishers wouldn't want that to stop people from downloading their games digitally, now would they? The solution? Trimm GB for GB until the size becomes acceptable. Meaning we will get gimped games left, right and center because due to their smaller size, more people are capable of or willing to download them.

Get that digital only BS out of your system, it wasn't a reality when MS blew smoke about it when PS3 released with BluRay, it is not a reality 8 years into the console cycle, it will not be a reality 10 years from now and perhaps not in my lifetime. So get over it and move on.

[nukeitall]

@serg:

"In other words, games will get even bigger next gen, making 50GB a must for over 90% of full price games."

Do you just like to throw out BS numbers and assume they are facts?

The vast majority of games do not need a lot of space. Those that do, use pre-baked scenes in a video. In engine, consumes relatively little space. There is also texture compression that is common on bleeding edge hardware like PS4 and Xbox One. The latter more so.

"The average internet connection in homes is only around 10 MBit/s, and that is a generous estimate. Which means it would take 12 hours to download a 50GB game with 10 MBit/s. Publishers wouldn't want that to stop people from downloading their games digitally, now would they?"

Then if bandwidth is a problem, then why are all games released digital day one?

Heard of background downloading as you play? Yeah, both the PS4 and Xbox One offers it!

Steam, the biggest PC video game market is all digital. Don't see a problem there. In fact, the vast majority of PC games are now sold digital!

"don't even bother, the fact that you think you can run games off of a USB harddrive says everything about your technical expertise, or lack thereof."

Heard of USB3?

I think you are the one that needs a little technical expertise!

"Get that digital only BS out of your system, it wasn't a reality when MS blew smoke about it when PS3 released with BluRay, it is not a reality 8 years into the console cycle, it will not be a reality 10 years from now and perhaps not in my lifetime. So get over it and move on."

I can only assume your lifetime will be very short. For that, I am truly sorry for you, young grasshopper!

[Serg]

Devil may Cry 4 came out in 2008. It fit on one Xbox 360 disc, which is 8,5GB in total, minus the mandatory XBox 360 intros in various resolutions and security stuff from Microsoft, the usable disc space for the developer was a little over 7GB, which they filled. Are you telling me that the disc space had nothing to do with the fact that in order to beat the game, you play with Nero half way through, then with Dante the same levels, the same enemies, the same bosses, backwards, the only difference being voice over lines and cut scenes? Is this what you consider good game design? I call that gimped. They couldn't cram more stuff in there, the disc was full already, yet they couldn't let the campaign be 4-5 hours long. In order to make up for it, they had you beat the game twice.

One level in Killzone 2 was around 2GB, so 3 levels, a few models, the menu, music and sound would fill up a DVD9, the 360's disc.

And lastly, Hideo Kojima said in an interview, that BluRay was not enough for him to make MGS4 into everything he invisioned. He had to cut corners in order to make his game fit 50GB, in 2008.

If you aren't bright enough to put 2 and 2 together to figure out why most games this gen were only around 7GB small, and by extension, why games on Steam rarely exceed 12GB, you aren't bright enough to understand why digital only will not be viable in the foreseeable future.

Compression is used no matter how much space you have, to save bandwidth.

USB isn't viable, period. Anyone with half a brain and the ability to peel bananas knows I was talking about 3.0, since both the XBox One and PS4 have 3.0 slots.

[Death]

@Serg

PS3 games on Blu-ray required redundant data on the disc to compensate for the drives slow read speed. You can't use any games footprint on the PS3 as a valid arguement. MGS4 filled an entire 50 gig Blu-ray and still required 5 gigs installed on the HDD to play. Later came a patch that allowed a full game install that took up all of 9 gigs total. Without optimization/compression, MGS4's 9 gigs wouldn't fit on a single DVD9. With compression, absolutely. Say what you will about Hideo, but what he said and what was real aren't exactly the same.

[nukeitall]

@serg:

I will keep it short, if 50GB is not enough, why is Sony using the same disc format, blu-ray, for their next generation system?

Fact of the matter is the vast majority of games on PS3 used far less than the capacity and the data was just replicated to be read faster, because the blu-ray drive had insufficient read speed.

[Oner]

Read speed is a BS excuse as speed didn't mean anything since the throughput was more than sufficient on the PS3. Plus CAV vs CLV for the PS3's BD vs the 360's DVD when tested was a wash, so in real world application it wasn't actually slower or faster than the other that was "noticeable". It's just a point for those who don't technically understand the difference between the two to say 12x is "faster" than 2x when they don't account for read rates across the disc along with throughput...

[Death]

@Oner,

You are looking at speed the wrong way. On paper, it was more than fast enough. The problem was accessing data at different locations on the disc. It simply took too much time to search for the data from one end of the disc to another. Especially early on, the easy solution was replicating the data. Instead of going from one end to the other, data could be read at it's closest location. HDD installs were madatory to replicate data to the HDD which was much faster thean the Blu-ray drive.

The way I look at Blu-ray is much more simple. PC's are much more capable than consoles. They need to produce much higher resolution textures than HDTV's can display and have much more powerful CPU's and GPU's that can eat up more resources. Blu-ray made absolutely no impact on PC gaming. Why would consoles benefit from Blu when PC's ignored it?

[Revolver_X_]

@nukeitall

PC being all digital makes sense. Never in retail history could you ever resell PC games. The whole CD key stopped that a decade ago. You obviously only play Xbox because you have no knowledge of blu ray. When MGS4 came out, the standard bluray was 25GB. Hideo had to get a specially made 50GB bluray. Now we have 100 GB bluray discs on the market. The sophistication of bluray surpasses DVDs a 1000x's over. Hence, the X1 going bluray.

@Death
The problem is you bring up PC in a discussion of digital content on CONSOLES. Troll much? Of course PC doesnt need bluray, but without "Know how", how much $$$ would a good gaming PC cost to a casual consumer? More then this gen of consoles. I swear ppl forget what console is for. Sony and MS could build a console to go all digital, but at what pricetag? Consoles are designed for the most output for the least pricetag possible. In time it will be all digital, but for now contrary to nuke's thinking, consumers wont pay that price.

[dantesparda]

Damn Serg schooled the hell out of Nukeitall. Serg is spot on while Nuke, you look like a fool, you fanboys try to spin things to hard, it sad how much damage control you's have to do

[Rainstorm81]

@death cause all PCs dont have BD drives, not to mention many games can be bought digitally.

Throughout the life of the PS3 was the first step for blu-ray discs....once quadruple layered 100GB discs are widely in use, it may have more of an impact.

[bonafide732]

yea i dont think people realize that. some people get labeled fanboys etc etc but they dont realize that if MS and EA had their way OUR videogame industry what we love to do in our free time would be headed in a different direction. that was my gripe about everything and its not as easy for me to open my arms back up like its all good now

[darthv72]

so basically, MS got in trouble for leapfrogging over everyone else and trying to get to the same end result as the industry is heading anyway.

Like it or not but sony has been working on their own DRM policies for several years. They tried it with music and movies and they have been working on one for games.

what they lack is the unified strategy to tackle all 3 formats at once but they will figure it out. and when they do they will convince the consumer that their way is the right way.

it should not be surprising to anyone that this will happen. MS was just doing it sooner rather than later and they totally glossed over explaining why it would be a benefit more than a hindrance.

The digital age is upon us and the ability to protect the IP is at the front of every publisher, developer and consumers mind. We rage about it now but in the end they will get it out and people will accept it no matter what.

Just because you or I may not want it, there will be others who will buy into it because that is the only way they will get the next big release. The smart are outnumbered by the not so smart and it is the not so smart that will be swayed into believing what is being sold to them as the next big thing.

[user5575708]

well on the upside at least there was enough horrible feedback and lack of preorders to get MS to change its policies back from the "were going to destroy gaming and make it annoying and miserable" policy

[MrBeatdown]

Good ol' nukeitall.

"We just got held back half a decade in physical disc stone age whereas most other mediums already are moving rapidly forward to digital."

Blame Microsoft. They can still offer digital customers every single benefit they initially promised.

They just don't want to, unless they can control the used market too.

Sure, if MS went with the policies you love so much only on the digital download side, you couldn't buy discs in store and get the same digital features, but I'm sure you wouldn't have any interest in "costly and polluting physical media" anyway.

[KwietStorm_BLM]

What do you mean thanks for saving us?

[quenomamen]

Yea, Fanboys still buying an X1 no matter what MS does to them.

" You can only save, those who want to be saved "

[Bluepowerzz]

LOL this kid started gaming properly when ps2 launched he wont understand or he isnt a proper gamer full stop no questions its a fact to not see what were seeing now your soul is lost forever.

[negative]

Wow Sony circle jerk party look out for crossfire!!!!

Sony saved gamers my A**. This has to be the stupidest statement ever.

[KwietStorm_BLM]

27 disagrees for asking the guy a question. Never mind the fact that I love PlayStation. Do you all see yet why people call this site a Sony haven?

[irepbtown]

He means if Microsoft had got their way, the future of gaming would look bleak. The; mandatory online check ins, kinect always on, not being able to share games etc, I would definitely be worried as a gamer.

Sony have 'forced' MS to change their policies (for the better) and gaming now looks a lot brighter. That's why Black0o said Sony saved us.

[Themba76]

and to thank them im going sony first this time the deserve my money ill wait 1-2 years for xbox one.

[EXVirtual]

@abzdine and Gaming101,
Thank you! The DRM was the first thing they flip flopped on and that was almost 2 months ago, but you need a patch. And they´ve programmed the XB1 to not require the kinect barely a week ago. Add that in with the features behind pay walls, Spencer´s comment, the Forza 5 DRM and the fact that the DRM is Hard freakin wired into the console spells nothing but 'DRM will come back in 1 and a half-2 years'. And when that happens, all gaming websites will IMPLODE on it. The threads and comments sections on NeoGAF, youtube and of course here will go crazy as hell. Sony never planned any DRM. It was confirmed back at the reveal people. Xbox fanboys just didn´t want the MS bashing to go through the roof. Not to mention that they were prancing and jumping when they covered the DRM with that patch even though they were ok with it. Like really? That patent in January was identical to the one with the PS3. AKA: Fake. Again, MS only reversed when they saw the atrocious pre-orders on the X-bone. Don´t be fooled.

[Sleepless]

As I was saying digital distribution is going to come this generation for sure....dont believe it?

GTA V - If you buy the digital version on PSN you get 75% discount in another Rockstar game. Read the forums, people are queuing up for this. This grants Rockstar that you aint gonna sell your copy...first punch to kill secondhand market.

You are gonna see a lot of this from both sides, Sony and MS.

You are gonna embrace digital distribution.

Funny thing it is Sony who starts. (Talking about AAA titles at launch like GTA V)

[DARK WITNESS]

We don't mind digital coming, infact it's already here anyway.

The way R* are doing is simply the better way of encouraging it. The way MS went about it was the wrong way, that's the difference.

Everyone keeps saying that MS doing DRM would = steam.

MS never gave us one real benefit and there was never any hint from them that we could expect the sort of benefit that steam gets from selling digital.

I firmly believe that MS would quite happily carry on charging full price and even old games and sales would only see a small discount compared to the value we get buying pre-owned games in shop and from ebay. MS potentially would have put a stop to all that, put a lot of small people out of business and would have had game prices in a headlock effectively.

Sony has already been doing a lot with digital download, nobody really has a problem going digital. There needs to be the right incentive for the consumer though. That is where MS failed hard.

[Sleepless]

@DARK WITNESS

"We don't mind digital coming, infact it's already here anyway. "

Well, people do mind. They want a physical copy because they want secondhand market. This was all around these forums right afer MS E3 conference.

"MS never gave us one real benefit and there was never any hint from them that we could expect the sort of benefit that steam gets from selling digital."

They didn't have a chance. I know they ruin it because of misscommunicating, but it is neither MS nor Sony who is going to give us these discounts...is going to be the distribution companys...to encourage us to embrace digital distribution and kill secondhand market. We are going to see in the near future this kind of discount on XBL and PSN...same kind of discounts in both platforms.

Don't be naive, its distribution companys, EA, Ubisoft,..., who rule, not MS or Sony.

BTW: MS gave us an incentive...you could share any game with ten of your friends. Try to do that with GTA V on PSN.

[DARK WITNESS]

" Well, people do mind. They want a physical copy because they want secondhand market. This was all around these forums right afer MS E3 conference. "

Have you heard anyone complaining about buy digital on the ps3 or 360 up till now, No. being able to buy digital was never a problem which is why I said people didn't mind. Trying to restrict what people can do with their hard copy and using digital as an excuse, that is what people minded !

Yes many people want to have a physical copy so they can sell it on if they want. Having a digital store does not mean that has to stop, but that is exactly what MS tried to do.

That is why people were up in arms about it, that is what all the raging on the net was about. it was never an issue before then.

" They didn't have a chance. I know they ruin it because of misscommunicating, but it is neither MS nor Sony who is going to give us these discounts...is going to be the distribution companys...to encourage us to embrace digital distribution and kill secondhand market. We are going to see in the near future this kind of discount on XBL and PSN...same kind of discounts in both platforms. "

MS didn't have chance... you really think that. How long had the xbo been in development ? Let me help you - Years! So if it was always their plan then they already had the answers before they ever even went on stage.

MS didn't have a chance, they had a 1hr presentation to discuss all of it. Instead they spent all their time talking about TV apps.

They didn't ruin anything because of their miscommunication. Everything was ruined long before that, they only made it worse with miscommunication.

The miscommunication started because of a backlash they were not expecting.

"it's not MS or Sony who is going to give us these discounts... its going to be the distribution companys". Do you not realise that if MS had their way, MS would be THE DISTRIBUTION COMPANY !! That was their whole point !!

" Don't be naive, its distribution companys, EA, Ubisoft,..., who rule, not MS or Sony. "

Really, so thats the reason why they were all trying to distance themselves from MS when it all kicked off ??

EA actually came out and said they had nothing to do with MS's policies.

If they were in control, how come they could not get sony on board with DRM, assuming they were the ones to benefit from it.

" BTW: MS gave us an incentive...you could share any game with ten of your friends. Try to do that with GTA V on PSN. "

I can already do that with more then 10 people.

If I was the type of guy who is not bothered about sharing my games, what else is there ?

what about the poor old developers? I mean the idea of killing the 2nd hand market is so that devs makee more money from game sales to the people who otherwise would be buying 2nd hand... the only problem is now those same people won't need to buy anything because their friend can just share the game with them.

so now the Dev's don't make any extra money, the publishers don't make any extra money and the Retailers go out of business because they are not making any extra money either.

So who wins exactly? MS ?

[MasterCornholio]

Im happy that Sony stood up to Microsoft and announced that they were not going to go in the same direction. Thanks to Sony and all the backlash Microsoft went through a bunch of 180s with their console and made it more friendly to consumers again.

Edit: BTW i wonder how all those people who stated that Sony would use the same DRM policy's as Microsoft feel?

[maximus1985]

With Xbox loyalist it's always half full. We say Microsoft is backtracking, they say listening to consumers. I mean literally Microsoft can do no wrong in their eyes so I say "hey have your Xbox one". In fact we should stop complaining FOR them and leave them while we move forward

[n4rc]

People really do just believe whatever they read without question.. As long as Sony says it anyways..

Gullible as hell.. Sony is lucky to have you.. Lol

[maximus1985]

As Microsoft is lucky to have :)

[n4rc]

I'm guessing you meant to add "you" at the end there..

Fair enough.. But I take everything I read with a grain of salt.. I don't blindly follow Microsoft.. I know they spin info to their benefit like anyone else..

But when a Sony exec says something like this.. When there is evidence to the contrary.. Its just PR.

Sony hopes you ignore their music and movie divisions when it comes to "we hate DRM" claims..

[PeacefulChaos]

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

[Cueil]

he's 100 percent full of crap... I know that for a fact

[InTheZoneAC]

xbots should be thanking us for all these sudden changes by M$

sooner or later M$ is going to have their way with their install base and get over on them one way or another.

[NatureOfLogic]

@ blackbo

Sony basically just silenced all the MS sheep claiming "bu but Sony will too." Only the Xbox fanboys truely believed Sony would make the same mistake as MS. I think it was only being said to only temporarily soften the damage and negativity that MS was receiving, but then Sony E3 just devastated MS instead.

[M-M]

Exactly, they had that "You're going down with me!" mentality. The Xbox fanboys(not fans) knew that Microsoft would receive backlash for it, and that they didn't want Sony to have the upper hand on the matter.

[black0o]

and the press also did spike.TV IGN ..etc all were like ''publisher won't allow one company to do a thing while the other does the something else" it was really a win for every gamer on a console that night not just sony's fans

[jah-Fu]

A sheep is a sheep. Be it Sony or MS. Your logic deceives you. Bias does not.

[FlameHawk]

That is why they are taking jabs at Microsoft, seeing the consumers getting f'ed like that didn't make them happy and had to call them out for that.

[Soldierone]

I honestly thing MS was holding out, hoping Sony would follow. You have to admit, its obvious publishers were pushing for it. You had EA randomly out of the blue go "hey guess what? No more online codes!!!! YAY!!!" Short while later, the same measures are put in place for Xbox One.

EA doesn't randomly just do that, no matter how small the profit margin was. The pieces fell too perfectly for any excuses.

Sony simply went "no lets not do it, look at the backlash." And they are profiting off it by looking like the good guys. The option was always there, they just never decided to implement it.

[DragonKnight]

No, it wasn't. There are several sources, from Sony, saying the DRM was never their consideration going way back to when Eurogamer interviewed them about the patent on their own disc based DRM. Sony never had any intention of putting that DRM on the PS4.

[ZodTheRipper]

Funny that people still think Sony had big DRM plans in mind. I mean why would they? The business model is working as it is while keeping all involved parties (Publishers, Developers, Retailers and Customers) happy.
Microsoft, being the greedy bunch they are, just tried to profit from all of them by creating their own rules. It would have worked in a world full of Xbots but certainly not in the competitive business gaming became in recent years.

[NateCole]

Except Sony never did plan for this. MS being big headed asssholes thought they could get away with it.

[christrules0041]

http://www.explosion.com/38...

Clearly stated it was mot a part of the plan that was considered. To quote the article:

“Dating from about our February event, there had been questions about what our online policy would be,” he said, in an interview with The Guardian. “And I have to say that we were slightly perplexed, because we had no intention of changing from a model that I think has served us really well for several platform life-cycles.”

At its February event Sony did not know what Microsoft had planned, details of which did not emerge until the Xbox One unveiling in May. “Of course, it was really the actions of others, and the reaction coming from consumers, which led to more speculation,” added House. “So we felt that with E3, it was a really good opportunity to set the record straight. But there weren’t any changes that we’d been considering.”

[shinrock]

oh no no no nooooooo. Sony is the angel of the industry. ea ubi knew not to approach the next gen with profit in mind.didnt the pubs and devs get the memo from n4g that this is the entitled to free gaming generation.

also totally unprofessional gamescon presentation. they have the momentum so the dig was immature and uncalled for.

[Soldierone]

To be honest, almost every MS conference this generation had a swipe at Sony. Remember when they went "We won't bore you with sales figures like our competitor" at one E3?

They always do that, its nice to see Sony get balls and do it back.

[cootdog123]

Lol I guess so they only CHANGED everything about the system for launch.

[TheOneEyedHound]

Anderw house looks like a cooler Geoff Keighley? Anyone?

[DragonKnight]

That's insulting to Andrew House.

[Outside_ofthe_Box]

I don't know about 'cooler', but I can kinda of sort of see where you are coming from with that comparison.

[MasterCornholio]

Andrew House isnt anything like the Doritos king.

IMO

[slimpickens]

This is why I have nothing against Sony personally even though I prefer XB0 anyday.All gamers especially XBox gamers should look at the jabs as an attack on MS trying to screw us over even more. So basically it's them defending even Xbox fans for the sake of gaming. Somebody had to do it and finally it's paying off. Yeah Sony went a little overboard with the jabs but something had to change and now we have a game console dedicated on bringing us games and free stuff. Hopefully this trend continues and we get a MS that's much more caring and respectful to it's consumers.

[Azmatik]

Nice comment

[The_Sneauxman]

you get a bubble for Intelligence

[Pope_Kaz_Hirai_II]

Stopped reading at I prefer xbone anyday cant give you any credibility after that stupid comment.

[maximus1985]

And we couldn't agree with you after "stopped reading"

[KonsoruMasuta]

You disgrace the name of Kaz.

[Lunarassassin]

I don't think the jabs were really overboard. At least sony didn't namebthere competitors or laugh at them.
In microsofts gamescom event there was a pre recorded video where microsoft asked: what do you want in independent publishing?
And one of the replies from 2 devs sat next to each other said: just like sony! *laughs* *high five eachother*

[STANK08]

You guys are delusional if you think Sony didn't or (doesn't) have stake in a all digital future. For one, Sony has a patent on DRM tech which was rumored to be featured in the PS4. And don't get me started on the DRM ridden VITA. Sony is the poster child for DRM

Ask yourself this, Why is there an update every other week on the PS3? Why is there a 1 account per memory card on the VITA? Why was other OS removed?

Truth is the Industry as a whole is inching toward a digital future. The only problem is that it was MS that was ushering it, which I have no problem with.

[badkolo]

but ms couldve ushered it in by just adding those lines to the games themselves, " cant be played unless online to get all features, and other things like that couldve been handled in a way as to not freak people out

[EXVirtual]

You sound like a desperate MS sheep.
Ya know that patent wasn´t even related to the PS4 right?
http://www.eurogamer.net/ar...
Please don´t come and talk to me about an all digital future. Physical and digital distribution can coexist happily. Look at DVDs and Netflix. Look at CDs and Itunes. Why is gaming any different? The future of games isn´t screwing consumers over. This is why gaming isn´t taken seriously. You´re delusional if you think it´s ok for a greedy company to pull that BS.

[Soldierone]

Everything you stated for Sony was to prevent piracy, not an all digital future.

"Why one account per card on Vita?"
Uhh, because almost every PSP owner was stealing games and Sony needed to do something to show developers Vita won't allow it? Same with Other OS, people figured out how to steal games. So who's fault is it? Sony's or the people stealing games? (And the PS3 hardly ever updates anymore) Sony has not implemented anything that breaks a game at all. Even if you buy games used, they still function as long as you pay for them.

MS randomly demanded everyone be online 24/7 and thats too much to change in such a short while. They needed to transition to it, which is what they will probably do now.

[DragonKnight]

@STANK08: They had a patent for DRM for the PS3 too and that never happened. What other stories are you going to pull from the void?

[AceBlazer13]

the void a.k.a his ass

[king_george]

@AceBlazer13

Lol not gunna lie that was pretty funny XD

[The_Sneauxman]

I don't need to explain the OTHEROS removal again.. this is ridiculous. Quit grasping for stuff to complain about if you don't know why.

This just shows your unintelligence

EDIT: Thank you to Soldierone for the complete rundown, bubble for you sir

[ziggurcat]

@stank08:

The only people who were saying that the PS4 was going to implement DRM because they filed a patent were the members of the Sony doom patrol, who desperately tried to throw Sony under the bus.

As it has already been pointed out, Sony filed an identical patent just prior to the PS3 launch, and we all know used games were blocked, right?

An update every other week for PS3? The last update was June 27, which was almost 3 months ago, so try harder.

Why was other OS removed? Because some idiot (who was later taken to court by Sony for something different, and has his *** handed to him) wouldn't leave well enough alone. Had he not ****ed around with thing he had no legal right to **** around with, other Os would still be around. Sony had zero intention of ever removing that feature.

[jerethdagryphon]

The reason for the rash of small updates was resecuring the system after the main key was uncovered geohot was responsible for dissemination of that and got in trouble .

[rainslacker]

Andrew House admitted in this very article that Sony has a stake in DD. He also admitted that they have a stake in physical distribution. "Both ends of the spectrum", as he put it.

To me that's perfectly fine. They can and do co-exist.

What the industry is itching for doesn't matter if the customers aren't there for it. These past few months showed that a large percentage of customers were not on board yet.

What comes in the future we can only speculate on.

To answer your questions though, 1. They're fixing stuff or adding features. 2. couple possibilities, one to help prevent piracy, two to restrict or make less convienant "importing" digital titles. 3. Because it was a back door for piracy on the PS3, or as some believe, Sony was selling too many systems to act as servers without seeing a return on games...take your pick.

[pyramidshead]

The original XB1 was a train wreck for THIS time period. Half of the world not on stable internet connections.

The original XB1 console vision would be more suited to have been brought out in 2020 maybe when entire cities and exchanges are all pumping out reliable fibre broadband.

No-one has a problem with a digital future it's how microsoft went about implementing it. Like myself, many people wouldn't have bought purely for the always online policy because their connection would be too shite!

[ziggurcat]

"No-one has a problem with a digital future it's how microsoft went about implementing it."

this.

i actually like the convenience of purchasing digitally - i have made several digital purchases of disc-based games in the last year alone - but treating a disc-based title like it was a digital title (i.e. by only allowing it to be traded *once*) was the wrong approach, imo.

[shinrock]

they honestly believe Sony doesn't want to profit. they believe sony just loves them.

[trywizardo]

yeah thx sony for making MS change their mind , now you'll be in second place cause you forgot to make games you just made trolls on MS ...

[AbortMission]

Have you been in a brain dead state all throughout the PS conferences in E3 and Gamescom? Or are you just delusional Lol.

[trywizardo]

sony at E3 sucked it didn't show much exclusives and 2 of the demos got crashed the only thing they did that impress their fans was trolling MS at the END of the the show , and at gamescon they showed indie ...

[PSVita]

Ugh so we're back to the "no games" again lol I can't wait to see whats next

[PickAShoe]

trywizardo is doing all his research on Playstation using Bing.

[Jdoki]

Didn't Sony just announce 33 titles for Day 1 release?

If you're going to play the quantity game that stacks up against the 23 MS have announced.

Personally I'll go for quality, and that sits firmly with Sony to me. Your preference may be different, but the BS about no games on the PS4 is factually wrong.

[PSVita]

I believe they each have the same amount 33 to 33.

[Monkeyonfire13]

Seriously you must be a newb! M$ has Designed the xbone around the Business model, Sony has made it for the gamers! M$ has backed EA in microTransactions(Farmville) model and had made it imposable to be a indie Dev on the xbone without paying Huge sums and signing away your license to Major dev and most of the royalties(aka Money). Sony has invited everyone to publish on the Psn right along side the Big titles with no loop holes, just Make whatever you want, whenever you want and No deadlines.

[BlaqMagiq24]

Ughh yet another MS fanboy talking out of his ass again. Nothing new here

[STANK08]

@badloko Being online to authenticate the game was not the culprit, The family sharing was. What would stop me from adding 10 random strangers to my circle, download each game from their library, and hide offline and game till my heart content?

Family sharing opened itself up to this type of abuse thus required you to stay connected. I also blame MS terrible PR for failing to express MS vision.

[Jdoki]

I agree, I think the way MS handled PR was awful.

There would have been far less outcry if they had given the messages a positive slant. I liked some of the ideas and concepts MS announced (even though I had no plans to buy an X1) - but they made everything sound negative. Instead of addressing issues head on they were evasive for months before their ill-timed reactionary press event..

I just don't think they were in a position at the time to give positive messages and Sony forced their hand with such a positive February event.

Instead of being able to say 'LOOK at these awesome always online games', 'LOOK at the benefits of Family Sharing', 'LOOK at these demos showing the cloud if you're always connected' etc, everything sounded like marketing BS and hugely negative.

They just made themselves look like untrustworthy money grabbing weasels.

[ACEMANWISE]

No mortal with the inheritance of power should use it to enforce their own will. Instead use it to enforce thy will of the weak for whom you've been granted power.

[EXVirtual]

It surprised me too. I thought you would have to be borderline retarded to do that with your product, especially when you know your competitors aren´t doing it. But MS seems to look at consumers as walking dollar signs. Sony isn´t my friend, but they seem to respect my common sense. What kind of feedback did Microsoft think they would get? A lot of people on the web and of course here on N4G aren´t sheep. Did they expect praise? It truly boggles my mind. Even though they did a 180, people don´t easily forget either. The trust for MS has been broken. I know a lot of Xbox fans who like the Xbox, but have never liked MS as a company. I also think that anybody who says Sony is just trolling MS and not making games is stupid. Sony makes games, Microsoft buy timed exclusives and make FPS´ and racing games with DRM (Forza 5). And just remember to think ahead. I can guarantee that MS will have exclusives for 1-2 years and then multiplats will be the games that you´ll get on the XB1. If that´s the logic you go by then if you criticized MS with the initial policies, you just trolled MS. When you see bullshit call out bullshit. Point, blank, period.

[rainslacker]

I think they expected the backlash to be contained to a very vocal minority. Why they would think such a thing, especially when the rumors caused so much hate, is beyond me.

Either that, or they just thought people would buy it anyways. Somehow the Windows OS mentality creeped into the Xbox division.

[memots]

I'm one of those. I likemu Xbox and the 360 , I love the 360 comptroller but I hate what ms have done.

[AceBlazer13]

trust me they surprised a lot of us.

[AbortMission]

But not the

*puts on glasses*

the Last of us

(that sounded weird)

[PSVita]

"Yeaaaaaaaah!!!!"

[maximus1985]

We won't get fooled again! Oh no oh no .....lol

[sAVAge_bEaST]

Never the plan to instill DRM, and other draconian measures.. So the nay sayers can never say that again-, "sony was going to do it too.'"

O.T.\
Alot of positive buzz from the Mainstream, for the Ps4.

[Hicken]

They're saying it anyway, just look above you.

I was surprised. I definitely did not expect them to follow through with what the rumors said. I knew Sony wasn't doing it, and Nintendo evidently wasn't, so there was no way Microsoft would go it alone.

Wrong. Dead wrong. It was like that time I used real logic in a dream and wound up getting shot two dozen times.

Not making either mistake again.

[Monkeyonfire13]

Sony was talking about it Years ago and it was a short talk. It was clear that one disk one owner wouldn't work and scrapped it ages ago. M$ thought "Hey lets make as much money as we can". So there little DRM plan was hatched. Obviously this isn't a great business model. For sure they wanted it more like "Steam" but space is Very limited on their little proprietary HDDs. So the one disk model was born...and crashed Hard.

[Ligerzero_007]

My personal opinion, the only reason Sony mocks Microsoft so bad lately is because Microsoft sets themselves up for it. Everyone knows Microsoft screwed up royally for this generation, and Sony is capitalizing on it. You can't tell me that if Sony made those mistakes like Microsoft made, that Microsoft wouldn't take advantage and rip Sony a new one for it; because they would in a heartbeat, and everyone knows it. But because Microsoft screwed up so bad and Sony is capitalizing on it, Xbox fanboys are pissed and are telling Sony and their fans to grow up and so on. It would be no different if the situation was reversed.

[sAVAge_bEaST]

110% agree, ,, M$ would act even worst,.

M$ has no class.

(They and all their fanboys, were saying Sony should go bankrupt, drop out, along with nintendo,.. Now (since they are having horrible numbers) -are trying to say "competition is good", and "we need M$",.. No, M$ is a cancer to the industry,.. and they are the ones that need to disappear.)

[Monkeyonfire13]

Have to say i would agree. Sony messed up on the Ps3 launch and M$ fanboys were loving it. So what happened? Sony admitted fault and shaped up. It took a while, Sonys a huge company. Poor M$ fanboys take any chance poke at everyone else instead of giving praises for they're beloved X-box. Really they can't can they, they've been trailing Sony for years in many aspects. Face it M$ is a software company and Sony is a hardware company. Sony has been around for a while. If they decided to do an OS, everyone would be on board.

[yellowgerbil]

These guys are so genuine. They aren't suits, or at least can appeal to gamers in a way that isn't corporate.
I watched the MS gamescom and the guy talking was like a stereotypical 80s stockbroker, reminded me of they 80s guy in the futurama episode terminal bone-itis....

[babis1974]

i was suprised too but not because of that , but BECAUSE PS4 WON'T COME HERE IN GREECE IN THE 29TH OF NOVEMBER!YOU SOLD US!

[ghoh1]

m$ is a cancer that should be removed

[NeloAnjelo]

See MS and EA would have shafted us other wise. Why do you think EA abandoned its online pass? It's because of the One's DRM. It wasn't for good will or anything.

And with MS and EA being partners, EA was like WTF is what up with the reversal? Then as a result MS struck a deal to subsidise all FIFA 14 sales in Europe, under guise of offering value. This way EA gets guaranteed revenue, and MS looks like it's giving something back...

All speculation of course... But makes perfect (business) sense.

Dirty tactics though.

[Monkeyonfire13]

Not much of a battle, Sony is wiping the floor with Microsofts entrails.

[Cmk0121]

At some poiint trying to mock MS just becomes petty, they are dominating in every aspect they can at the moment yet constantly want to attempt to throw mud at MS. "Act like youve been there before" is all i can say!

[joeorc]

@Cmk0121

"At some point trying to mock MS just becomes petty, they are dominating in every aspect they can at the moment yet constantly want to attempt to throw mud at MS. "Act like youve been there before" is all i can say!"

Not saying what you said is not true, but think about what you are complaining about for a sec, and ask where was this outcry when Sony and their fans were being mocked, not one year, not two year's but over 4 freaking year's in a row, hell just recently, "Sony had to sell building's just to make profit" while Microsoft is raking in all this cash.

Its this exact Arrogance that has got Sony into so much trouble in the PR front in the past, that is now a problem for Microsoft.

But where was your outcry then?

it was all this time, when the majority of the fans of a certain console slap the face of other's and now expect them not to do something in kind?

While i agree, its petty, but like i said the Playstation fanbase, and Nintendo's fanbase has had to put up with this type of petty attitude for quite a while.

I mean many times a vast majority call the online game forums, bias with most member's being Sony fanboy's, and stating that most of the time they say the sony fanboy's are the worst.

but yet i have not seen a web site devoted to "hate" on any of the big three of this size for other than sony.

example:

can you show me a web site page that is devoted completely with hatred for Nintendo, and Microsoft with this sheer number:

2,833,125 people are tired of Sony's bullshit.

http://www.thebestpageinthe...

for petes sake there is even a mocking Gif, so is that just good ribbing? Is that all in good fun?

the point even if the intent was to mock, than you have to admit that Microsoft has quite a ways to go before they hit that level of being mocked.

a few months of this is nothing like what Nintendo and Sony have had. Was it "just good ribbing" for over 4+ years straight and many telling Nintendo and Sony fans to just suck it up?

"Act like youve been there before" is all i can say!"

So like good lil children they need to stay in their child seat and let the Microsoft grownups talk?

Like i said you cannot have it both way's. you cannot over and over slap someone and not expect payback in kind.

remember that so lovely Song this lil gem

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

With more than 2.5 million combined views, the most popular Sarcastic Gamer parody song finally gets its very own officially-sanctioned video.

Previous video incarnations of this song were called "The PS3 Song"

Visit SarcasticGamer.com for even more of our parodies and video game entertainment.
Vocals by Jeromy "Doc" Adams.

Incredible video production by M-Freakin-J.

We hope you enjoy this video as much as we do. Great job MJ!

a major gaming site mocking the ps3 With a catchy song right? but it was all fun n games for people.

right..lmao

Advice gain some thick skin, is all i can say.

[tonywood]

Although i'm not a fan of digital distribution and DRM, my main issue with charging for online is not having full control of content I paid for. XBL is ok if I can make MP matches how I want....but no dedicated servers. Somehow that's worth $60 a year, YEA!

[thisismyaccount]

10 "Facts" about Microsoft/Console divsion.

Fact 1 : 2005 360 had a failure rate up to 50%, some claim 66%. The console (most of them) was not well "polished"
Fact 2 : Piracy hit the 360 shelfs waaay before it did reach PS3, did help a lot (estimation = every 360 owner had/s easily at least 2 360-consoles (1x working, 1x broken and prolly a 3rd for pirated games)
Fact 3 : Sony help Microsoft (unintentionally) ; many ex-PS2 arsetwat left Sony and joined M$.. (there a quite a lot of ex-Con playing on the 360.. but not viceversa)
Fact 4 : M$ likes to throw money out of the window, 35 Mio. for a stupid or for few exclusive GTA4 deals... back then : 35 Mio. meant -> console exclusivity.. now you only get .dlc for that amount of money
Fact 6 : 360 had (apparently) great games the first 2 years only, from then on it´s was a Halo/GoW/Forza only box
Fact 7 : M$ and their attempt on DRM (first 180 of many)
Fact 8 : Don had to leave.. M$ (Get a 360 instead of the Box 1 - guy)
Fact 9 : Kinect is not required anymore, Major Nelson and Co. said countless times it was part of their "ecosystem"..
Fact10 : And now you get Fifa 14 for free, but while supply last and only for those DAY1 Editions AND you have to be living in one of the 14 countries.

Look the console will have fun games, not going to deny that. But ppl. should not forget what M$ really tried to do... believe it or not : This Xbox One is M$ original idea for their first Box 1 back 2001, yep. They already wanted to implement this back 2001, they couldnt (hardware was crap, no cablebox avai. dunno the reasons).

Most of those games on the box 1 will be avaib. on the PC, like DR3 (most likely) and Porject Spark for Win 8 though. It will be the same story again :

Box 1 will be a Halo playback tool and nothing else, ppl. claiming Forza is great, ok their opinion (played first 2 and didnt like´em), but for a franchise you believe to be a BIG one, well let me tell you : They barely sold 10 Mio. copies world wide since the creation of the game back 2005 ?.. Only Forza 4 managed to sell past the 4 or 5 mio.. total sales : ~16 mio.

The only thing i can say : DO NOT jump to the PC, IT is not worth it (did that back 2004, skipped PS360... AND it was the worst decision one can make...seriously, console may be more expensive, but the variety of games and more AAA... you won´t find them on the PC platform at all)

I mean, i really miss playing on my 50" at 1080p... spent 8 year playing on 24" but with Downsampling ... what a time waste.

[jimmywolf]

agree overall with what you say but the last line

"the only thing i can say : DO NOT jump to the PC, IT is not worth it"

PC gaming is worth it an offer more then just a game, mods,cheaper price if you don't mind digital only ,unofficial patches/fix for when dev ignore the game.

i enjoy my desktop very much just as i enjoy my ps3 for gaming

[thisismyaccount]

Sorry, but have to disagree with you on that. I´m not saying, i didn´t had any fun, played HL2 and Guild Wars 1 .. which were unique to the PC platform.

Overall though, noone on the PC can deny that they lack in diversity. The past 4 years or so, i played console ports, MOST or the majority of them were for free (PSN+ Membership).

The PC Gaming Alliance founded long time ago DID NOTHING at all to contribute, PC will never be the leading platform, simply because there are bazillions of diffrent pc setups outs there... it´s funny to see ppl. getting 4x titans and not really having a "4x titans" super expierence because :

a) every game is made for 1080p, that means textures espec.
b) on the PC, you have to wait for a texture overhaul .rar to brag about it, and there are only like 5 games that have something similar avail.

- Half Life 2
- every TES Game
- Doom 3
- and i don´t know any others...

It´s not worth it, to get a Titan GPU for 1k€ and look at "1080p" optimized textures :).. it´s pointless really;

I´m going back full force console, i asshole skipped the PS3 because it was friggin to expensive and after a while lost interst in gaming in general (didnt play any masterpieces like Uncharted, any GOW, or LAST of Us or now soon to be released Beyond... too many i skipped because Sony decided CELL was the best thing in the world)

50" at 1080p > 30" at 2560 by 1600. I would build a new PC and play only on the PC if

a) i could get at least 3x TFT with tiny bezels and use them in portrait mode for cheap (IPS panel)
b) games would have optimized textures for PC resoltuions
c) Console games will be ported 1 or 2 years later to the PC

.. and that´s not going to happen (except for a); somehow we could say that the PC and Xbox are alike when it comes to game diversity.

[HeroReborn]

There was once a time everyone despised Steam. Now most of everybody loved it. Publishers want this model replicated over all platforms. Personally I feel it would be better for gaming due to the extremely high cost to make a AAA game

[cell989]

that was one trend that got killed by Sony, thankfully

[AutoCad]

thanks for setting us back 8 years sony.

[H0RSE]

I guess the sort of thing MS pulled is supposed to anger me, and if it doesn't I guess I'm supposed to be categorized as a "blind fanboy sheep," or something similar, but the truth is, not everyone is upset, and furthermore, some of us actually didn't mind or were even looking forward to the original vision of the Xbox One.

I know I'll garner a lot of disagrees, since it's apparent that people on this site have a hard time accepting or even entertaining any opinion that isn't theirs, but I believe a good portion of the backlash towards MS's initial polices were due to the overall negative stigma surrounding the DRM in the media, coupled with a lot of people simply not being ready for the radical direction MS was headed.

This is not an attempt to shift the blame from MS to other factors. If MS is guilty of anything, it was their poor communication and lack of in-depth explanation of their initial policies and their lackluster responses to the community afterwards, but revealing policies that others saw as unfavorable? How does this make them a "bad" company?

Perhaps if Xbox was the only console available, I might see things differently, since there would be no other choice, but that isn't the case. If you weren't pleased with Xbox, you could get a PS4, or a Wii U, or even stick with current gen systems.

It seems like a lot of people wanted both systems to essentially offer the same experience, with their differences being in the games they offer and perhaps hardware, and when this wasn't the case, people got mad and sided with the system they saw as more favorable, and even after MS changed their polices, people were still not satisfied, and even used the fact that changed them as ammo against them. The whole fiasco behind MS policy reversals, the reasons behind them and why the community was still unhappy, is like the "I want you to want to do dishes," logic. http://www.youtube.com/watc...

You aren't in a personal relationship with MS. neither of you are committed to one another and neither of you owe each other anything. They are offering a good for consumers - that's it. Apparently it seemed many thought it was more than that. Sorry, MS wants your money, as does Sony - that's what corporations do.