The Kinect Camera Is Still a Problem for Microsoft's Xbox One

Microsoft (NASDAQ: MSFT) is one of the biggest companies in the tech industry. Its software helped to spur the personal computer revolution and the establishment of the Internet age.

The company plans to debut a successor to its popular Xbox 360 console this fall, the Xbox One. The soon-to-be-released console has gotten off to a turbulent start, having to reverse course on a number of features, policies, and strategic visions in order to quell consumer outrage. There are lingering issues that could plague the device, however.

[NeverEnding1989]

I don't like Kinect, but Kinect 2.0 is looking to be something special.

I have no interest in paying an additional $100 for it, but in a few years time once devs get some experience with it, people will be looking at the PS4 and asking "where's the camera?" The 5% of the PS4 userbase that goes out an buys the camera won't be enough for devs to give the same features on the PS4 that the X1 has.

Like with Blu-ray this gen, once devs get a handle of the technology you're going to start seeing superior exclusives and multiplatforms on the X1.

[antbolton89]

Yes, all the games they have shown for kinect 2 look great.

[fattyuk]

Don't see the connection between comparing blu rays discs to add on cameras?

[Tony-A]

I see it like this:

I may very well be excited for Kinect, but whether I am or not, a consumer NEEDS the ability to choose, especially when it drives the price up higher than a very capable and more popular competitor.

There is a big difference between ensuring your audience that you'll want a generally unnecessary peripheral and MAKING them buy a generally unnecessary peripheral.

Instead of forcing it, and the price along with it, onto the consumer's wallets just so you can give developers a reason to add an arbitrary feature that people might not even use, it would have been much more reasonable to - at the very least - gather your first party studios and develop software complete with Kinect features that a gamer simply cannot play without (not in a literal sense, of course).

As you can see, things such as an HDD in every console or a Blu-Ray drive in every console is an entirely different story because those two features give DEVELOPERS the tools to develop software that would otherwise suffer without it. This is not the case for Kinect, and Microsoft would benefit from finding a point where it very well may be.

Overall, a bad choice. But honestly, who cares at this point? Microsoft has had an abysmal summer trying to make their hardware appealing to the public. All they can do now is hope that the damage isn't as bad as some can make it out to be.

[JokesOnYou]

I don't want X1 to just end up being a 360 with better graphics, I don't want a ps4-like X1, if I wanted that I'd buy a ps4. I want new options and experiences in core games, if Kinect is released as an add on there is less reason for devs to take advantage of it, not to mention its heavy integration in the UI Kinect v2 is already being used in some unique ways and some ways we've seen before things like this will only get better over the life cycle of X1: 

Dead Rising 3 uses Kinect so zombies can actually hear you in game then swarm you/it also enables you to point at the screen, a cursor appears and you can direct survivors to attack with voice commands. 

Forza 5 will have head tracking and Autovista mode. 

Killer Instinct uses Kinect to automatically detect who's playing and load their settings - even if you give the controller to another player during a match. 

Ryse you use voice commands to control your surrounding units in battle, fire pilums or arrows, or block incoming attacks. 

Project Spark uses Kinect to draw and create landscape features. 

Crimson Dragon uses Kinect to control your dragon movements and fight. 

COD Ghosts & Battlefield 4= no details announced but obviously voice controls, possible motion features like leaning around a corner. 

This is just a sample of what we know so far, there is more going on behind the scenes about implementing Kinect in some pretty interesting ways, Microsoft have invested heavily and they are committed to introducing these new experiences by helping devs with lessons learned from the original Kinect. 
"Microsoft showed how if you touch your temple in the FPS demo, it'll immediately turn on x-ray vision in the video game. If you raise your controller, your character will raise a shield."  http://gizmodo.com/the-xbox... Then of course there will be full Kinect games like Dance Central and Kinect Sports Rivals. 

Kinect v2 also allows for face mapping because it is a built in "system level feature" and will be available to any game that chooses to use them. 
http://www.shacknews.com/ar...

-If you don't care about these Kinect options then please just buy a ps4, wii-u, play pc games, or games on tablets, I mean there are other optional platforms you have if you don't like Kinect but stop being selfish and let those of us who want something different enjoy what only the X1 does. Fortunately Microsoft went all in with Kinect and its staying, if that means 60mil vs 70mil sold in 5yrs so be it, I'm not a shareholder as a gamer I'm thankful for new experiences, not how much money each company makes.

[spaceg0st]

@jokesonyou

well said.

I'm choosing ps4 as my primary console along with my friends, and i'm hoping the psCamera will have similar capabilities, because i see a lot of promise with kinect 2.0.

[Gozer]

I want kinect with the X1. I am separated from my son because of a relationship split and the X1 comes with in game video chat. So I cant wait to play some 64 player BF 4 with my son.

I guess if every X1 comes with Kinect it means it will be an option for devs. I just dont really care if kinect is included for everybody else, I certainly waant it.

[Tony-A]

@JokesOnYou:

The fact that you don't just want an enhanced 360 or a PS4-like XBO doesn't change with the fact that Kinect is mandatory. The truth is, no matter what peripheral is added to the console, these next gen consoles don't suddenly become just "enhanced" versions of their predecessors.

Furthermore, simply listing what Kinect adds to certain games does nothing for two reasons. Firstly: they're launch titles. The point of a launch title is to show off graphical improvements and implement every possible feature the console can do. None of what you see with the Kinect and those launch titles is indicative of what XBO games will be like down the line.

Lastly, not a single one of the features you mentioned identifies the issue. The issue is that there is no reason for MS to require consumers to have Kinect. Those are all great for an additive experience, but is not must-have.

It's great that you mention that there is always other options, because that's exactly what MS wouldn't want. It also makes for an easy choice for those who would rather not spend an exra $100 for a forced (yet unforced once you have it??) camera. Why not just wait however long it takes until a camera-less SKU hits stores?

[JokesOnYou]

@spacegost, thanks and hopefully even without ps camera being including theres nothing saying devs can't do more to support ps camera, its just going to need sony to make some big AAA games that use it well so that they can get it into a significant portion of the install base homes= make ps fans want it. Either way there will obviously continue to be great ps games, so no big deal. I'm just greedy because games are already great with traditional controls but why not ADD to that?

@Tony A I'm glad Microsoft is forcing it for the reasons I already stated. I'm also aware that some don't want it, and as you acknowledge there are other options like ps4, although from just the people I know, none are so put off by Kinect that they don't want an X1, but I'd be foolish to assume that some tight budget conscious folks can't afford or justify $100. Either way, that's life, we can't stop having broader options, different tech, different strategies just because some don't want it, that's why we have a free market. More importantly I don't give a shiii if that's not what micro wants to happen, 'cause again, I'm the gamer, not the shareholder, I see in the short term they probably could sell a few more if they stripped it down and made it cheaper but in the longterm I see the benefits of its inclusion, maybe I'm wrong we don't know but at least WE AGREE THERE OTHER OPTIONS IF YOU DONT WANT KINECT. I mean its really very simple if I don't like something I don't buy it, I voice my concern and then I don't go to every ps4 thread and say why I think ps4 SHOULD include a ps eye and move.

[Mario18]

Lol like how PS move has much more support then your kinect does?

[negative]

"his" kinect????

get over yourself.

[Gozer]

You are obviously out of the loop when it comes to MS products. You make 0 sense.

[malokevi]

Personally, I'm excited to see what they can do with it with 100% adaptation, and I'm extremely excited to finally have a Kinect as part of my setup.

The idea that I can activate the console without a controller, and it can sign me in by looking at me/recognizing my voice... very cool. I'm the sort of person who spends 50% of the time on my XB360 listening to music or watching Netflix. That's 50% of the time where I would rather not have to be clutching my controller.

Very exciting, if your into that sort of thing. And the prospects for developers as they begin to familiarize themselves with the amazingly versatile new dev toolkit... nowhere to go but up.

[DragonKnight]

"Personally, I'm excited to see what they can do with it with 100% adaptation."

I think you meant adoption and that doesn't exist. Adoption implies everyone uses it. Now that they removed the dependency of it a lot won't bother to use it so there is not a 100% adoption rate only a 100% ownership rate.

[malokevi]

http://www.thefreedictionar...

I mean exactly what I said.

And the fact is, that developers can count on 100% of the people who buy an Xbox One to have a Kinect on hand, whether it has tape over it, its unplugged, or sitting there primed, ready to use.

You misunderstand the reason for letting people unplug the censor. Its to appease know-nothing, flag waving southerners who would rather castrate themselves than be possibly subject to anything reminiscent of "surveillance"... nothing more.

Nothing has changed as far as Kinect-focus. And, quite frankly, the people who do decide to invest 500$ in a console will almost certainly be making express use of the integral sensor that ships with every unit.

Just think about it for 5 seconds... I know its hard. Just try.

[mcstorm]

I agree, I spend my time with on my 360 the same and adding my skybox to it as well is a good move. I have a Wiiu and I have often played on the game pad with the tv on in the background for football scores ect and being able to have them on the same screen to would be another plus for the one. IM also liking the look of Kinect 2 it looks a lot like what project natal was.

[Bigpappy]

Why do we have to always argue with anti-Xbox fanboys about what should be included with Xbox? Are these guys thinking of jumping ship and getting themselves an Xbox One?

Good job by 'Jokes', 'malokevi' and 'mcstorm' explaining why Xbox One needs to stay as is. We need these features. The like the newness of gadgets with appreciate Kinect and the multi-tasking with split screen.

Like 'Jokes' said: "If you don't care about these Kinect options then please just buy a ps4, wii-u, play pc games, or games on tablets". I thought that would be obvious to you guys who are always talking about options. He just gave you 4 options. Now please go away so we can waste our money as we see fit! Thank you.

[DragonKnight]

@malokevi: Adaptation is still the incorrect word. Adaptation implies a need to get used to or a change. Unless every single game for the Xbox One is a Kinect game, then there is no adaptation going on. You've also used it in a sentence incorrectly if you're discussing developers adapting to Kinect development as, again, it would have to be every single game and they've still done Kinect development in the current gen anyway.

"And the fact is, that developers can count on 100% of the people who buy an Xbox One to have a Kinect on hand."

That's not the same as it being used and is still potentially damaging for Kinect only games. Just because a person has a thing, does not guarantee that they will buy something that uses that thing. Motion control has not been adopted by the core gaming audience in a large part as of the Present. There currently is no indication that that will change just because of PR that says the Kinect 2 is more advanced. There is far greater precision in gaming with an input device than a motion device and serious gamers care about that precision.

"Nothing has changed as far as Kinect-focus."

You don't even know what that focus is for gaming. Most of the Kinect focus has been for the non-gaming aspects, not the gaming aspects. For all you know, the game centric Kinect focus could be very shallow, ultimately useless features or games that don't appeal to the core audience, as evidenced by the Kinect offerings of the current gen. To state otherwise is to suggest intimate knowledge that hasn't been revealed to the public yet, and the likelihood of that is minuscule.

"And, quite frankly, the people who do decide to invest 500$ in a console will almost certainly be making express use of the integral sensor that ships with every unit."

You have no way to prove that.

@Bigpappy: There's this new concept known as "opinions." Everyone has them so you'd better get used to it.

[trafalger]

"Everyone has them so you'd better get used to it."

but you've stated your opinion, over and over and over again. if a consumer hates the food or the service at a restarant they simply go somewhere else or complain. if they don't get the results they want after complaining most sane people move on. meaning if the ps4 offers you what you want in a game platform why do you seem to spend MORE time talking about the xbone and/or m$ while never appearing to be happy with anything they do or offering anything you're interested in?

this is why you will be labeled a troll or a shill for sony and why others will continue to tell you that. so instead of going away you're a right-fighter who refuses to stick with sony articles. that to me suggests you enjoy this conflict and really, desperately i might add, want the xbone to fail. and will waste as much energy and time thinking what you say will have some impact.

[DragonKnight]

@trafalger: You really have an obsession with me, like I said before. And you can't handle my calling you out for being a hypocrite which is why you blocked me. You waste time over and over whining about what you don't like about me, then say you don't care about what I say, then proceed to repeat the process. You even interject yourself anywhere I comment and make subtle personal attacks against me with your off topic comments. Sounds very familiar actually. Keep going. I'm not the one that follows you around being hypocritical, but you'll see what happens when you harass users.

[iamnsuperman]

"Like with Blu-ray this gen, once devs get a handle of the technology you're going to start seeing superior exclusives and multiplatforms on the X1."

I personally don't think that is going to happen. Similar to my recent blog I did here: http://n4g.com/user/blogpos... those two things are also unrelatable. There was a need (due to better graphics....) for Blu Ray as it made life easier for developers having a larger amount of memory to develop onto.

The Kinect doesn't (and will never) offer this same need. It doesn't make gaming fundamentally easier to play which is what innovation needs to work. It will always be an extra (unnecessary) input (similar to how voice commands have been in game before) and not replace how we play already. There are some cool things (recognising facial expressions and player profiles) which could take off except for the fact the price for those "cool" things wont let it. These types of minor inconveniences and bonuses need to be done with limited extra cost added on

@below thanks corrected

[Bob Dole]

The Kinect is offer this same need? ;)

[JokesOnYou]

"Blu Ray as it made life easier for developers having a larger amount of memory to develop onto."

bluray does not add "a larger amount of memory" all it adds is more space for data on a single disc, every ps3 game aside from MGS4 which included 9+hrs of cutscenes could have been done on at most a couple of dvd's, 99% of multiplat games this gen were done on 1 dvd, many of which were slightly better on 360 and perhaps the biggest game Skyrim which has 200+ hrs of gameplay was on 1 dvd. Im sure devs loved the extra space but if anything bluray proved why it wasnt A MUST/necessary this gen, unless you can point me too these huge ps3 games in regards to content that cannot be recreated without significant impact to the length, graphics or experience if it were on multiple discs on 360.....just as Kinect is NOT A MUST for next gen games but imo Kinect will at least add more to the the gaming experience in some cases very little, in others it may truly add alot depending on the game type, bluray never offered that just more space= convenience for devs.

[DragonKnight]

@JokesOnYou: "every ps3 game aside from MGS4 which included 9+hrs of cutscenes could have been done on at most a couple of dvd's"

Could have, but didn't need to be with Blu-Ray, thus creating a convenience. No matter how small, that's what iamnsuperman was getting at. Plus, the extra space could have been used for anything if developers wanted to, but parity (and Microsoft's extra disc cost) demanded that they not do that.

[JokesOnYou]

Dragonknight I agree, except for the part about disc costs, that's a cop out excuse, you and I both know parity comes from $$money and time. In other words if I'm a multiplat dev what incentive do I have to make this bigger better game on bluray unless sony pays me for more content to show off the extra space on 1 bluray disc...with Kinect micro is giving them the dev tools free, allowing Kinect implementation at the system level which makes added functionality quick, minimum extra cost/time and even sharing past lessons learned for any dev who wants to utilize it, this is why we are already seeing more support for Kinect at this early stage, its not intensive like making extra levels or maps, characters, etc to fill up a bluray.

[trafalger]

"Could have, but didn't need to be with Blu-Ray, thus creating a convenience."

that sounds fine and dandy but it was far from convenient. you had to install part of the game and in-between chapters gamers had to wait. which is why and many others questioned just how convenient bluray was when so many games required part of the game to be installed before you could even play. to make matters worse most games could not have full installs which could alleviate even more load times and less wear of the lens.

[DragonKnight]

@trafalger: The blu-ray drive itself was the problem, not the format. The speed of the PS3's drive was lower than standard players, but that doesn't invalidate the fact that a game like MGS4 could be played on 1 disc on the PS3 as opposed to 3 or 4 on the Xbox 360. Spin all you want, but that's an irrefutable fact.

[s8anicslayer]

@NeverEnding

Think about what you just said for a minute. You make absolutely no sense and contradict yourself. Sony gives you the option to buy their camera when a game or application has a feature that either requires it or has an attractive feature that uses the camera which attracts you. Therefore you may purchase it if you'd like. What game that will be available in the first year that has been announced thus far makes the Kinect 2.0 such a viable improvement over it's predecessor that warrants so much praise over xbox fans? None! John Carmack has already stated that he was unimpressed with the new Kinect and there was a lot of lag displayed by the camera. My point is and will always be is that the Kinect should be an option like the PS camera and not a required purchase especially for unproven and unpopular technology.

[user7402931]

in order to have superior multiplatform and exclusive games you need superior hardware. x1 does not have superior hardware. its hardware is not even equal to ps4 hardware.

[DragonKnight]

"people will be looking at the PS4 and asking "where's the camera?"

No they won't. I guarantee that will never happen ever.

[Welcome2Die]

Agreed. 100%
I never, not once needed a camera this gen.

[Gozer]

@ Dragonknight
I see you are trolling another X1 story. You dont need to come to these waters to be a prick. I dont think you gained all those bubbles for being honest.

[DragonKnight]

How am I trolling? What did I say that was negative towards the Xbox One at all? Can you point it out?

And I am being honest. No one who buys a PS4 is going to ask where the camera is. They simply will not care. They'll have better things on their mind, like how they are going to afford the crap tonne of exclusive games that will be out for it. No one cares about the camera. In fact, I'm willing to bet that the same can be said for the Kinect and that if there were a way to measure if the camera were actually being used (even though that would validate it being a spy cam), then the number of concurrent active users would be extremely low in comparison to how many own the device.

How you can call "No they won't. I guarantee that will never happen ever" trolling against the Xbox One despite no mention of it at all boggles the minds of everyone in the known universe.

[trafalger]

"I dont think you gained all those bubbles for being honest."

those bubbles reflect the community as they support his stealth trolling. remember when parents used to suggest if you have nothing good to say then don't say anything?

[DragonKnight]

@trafalger: Still waiting for that example of you not caring about what I say. You just keep looking for my comments yet don't care right? Yeah, I'M the troll right? Suuuuure.

[objectivePSfan]

You're reasoning here is logically invalid. This argument "once dev's get some experience with it" is bs. The kinect has been out since 2010 and there have been ZERO games that are worth getting for the core. Sure kids love it, but for gamers who read n4g, there's been absolutely nothing compelling for us.

Microsoft first party studios have had plenty of time with the kinect and they have shown us nothing. So now you think other developers are seriously going to invest their time and resources developing for it? If microsoft first party studios can't deliver good games for it, what makes you think Ubisoft/EA will? Ubisoft and EA could care less if kinect is popular.

There has been NOTHING demonstrated so far to show that the new kinect will be any different. What game are you just dying to play for the kinect come launch time?

[Bigpappy]

I read N4G on a daily basis. Love Kinect Sports and Adventure. Loved Fruit Ninja and the catapult game. Kinect 2 will be even better.

There were a lot of core games who bought and had fun with Kinect. This one is much improved and I expect M$ will be demonstrating this in the next few days.

You guy really think you have some kind of supper intelligence over other console users. You are the exact type of people that call my house every week telling me why I have to switch to their service over what I already have. I just hand up on them.

I will wait and see what M$ shows and make my decision based on that. Done need some one with user name "PSfan" telling me what I should want in an Xbox.

[ape007]

MS, the system is all around near perfect (and so is ps4)

everything is top notch, games, specs, controller, online

the only bad thing about xbox one is the Mandatory kinect, 100$ is a big deal for people overall, look at any 100$ price cut for anything, look at 3DS sales after price cut as a prime example

it's a simple as this, u either buy a 499$ xbox one or a 399$ ps4, no other alternative, if u have your competitor as an alternative then that's a failed marketing model, u must have your own alternative SKU, u don't want the 399$ flood of consumers go to sony

not that kinect 2.0 is bad or anything, it's actually very cool but mandatory 100$ purchase will backfire in the long run

in the end more choice is better, it's a simple elementary school ABC logic, why can't they listen

[NatureOfLogic]

I've used kinect many times, and just didn't like it. I haven't had a chance to use it with the UI yet, so I can't fully determine It's usefulness. Kinect 2 is really looking no different to me, but we'll see I guess.

[T2]

Im not sure why people even think Kinect 2 is some groundbreaking thing everyone will jump on... Did COD come out and say "holy crap kinect 2 integration for our game day 1", Battlefield?, Destiny, any developers? I haven't seen one good integration for kinect 2 as of yet.... and believe me voice activation will get old real quick, its like the thing you want to show all your friends and then never use again, like google maps, who actually speaks to your phone? just type in the location its easier and you don't look like a tool.

[gaelic_laoch]

I wonder how many people are honestly excited about motion control? My gaming chair has an arse groove that will only be getting deeper!

[Deep-throat]

Kinect pfffffffffffffffffffffffff

I'm sure they will release Kinectless box.

[ape007]

"pfffffffffffffff"

lol

[Thomper]

I hope not...

Interesting name btw..... Advertising???

[KonsoruMasuta]

Have you never played MGS 2?

[captain_slow82]

xbox one cost more than a launch day ps3 in the uk

ps3 came with blu ray wifi built in and built in rechargeable batteries in the pad

360 came with a dvd player we had to buy wifi dongle for the 360 we had to buy a plug an charge kit.....

back then a blu ray was about £500 for a good player....

here we have MS saying we have the best tech its all about kinnect this is MS blu ray

but is it?

nope its a failed example and there excuse to charge more.

i really see MS as kids in the game and it really goes to show as of late.

[Belking]

MS can afford to take some hits. They are loaded with money. I'm glad Kinect comes with my xbox-one. I was gonna buy it anyway. I;m glad the consoles are different. What would be the point if they were both the same. It's not all about hardware though. MS has the best features along with a great xbl service. I have no problems with what i'm getting. I;m sure they will offer xb1 without kinect next year.

[Bryan574]

Everyone's favorite orwellian camera filled with a bunch of NSA goodies like night vision, facial recognition, 3d tracking and a heart rate monitor.

[Izzy408]

The PS Eye?

[SynestheticRoar]

Kinect these NUTS to your face for free.

[2cents]

Bottom line, the kinect is integral to the consoles functionality. As with the recent change to policy they have already made a dumbed down version of the Xbox one for all the paranoid androids out there who will be getting a very run of the mill console. For the people like me who embrace and revel in new technology, we will be making fools of ourselfs in living rooms around the globe. Don't you dare take kinect away from the console. I don't want a gimped Xbox one, I need it to be different enough from the ps4 to feel comfortable with buying both so that I have two unique experiences.

If the One sells without a kinect then it's no different to the PS4, just another games console that is not as powerful. Kinect is good, it's needed to differentiate itself from the rest of the industry. Giving developers greater opportunities to do things most of us haven't even thought of yet. Not just a tacked on afterthought which is what will happen with the ps4 and eye. Sony have actually done more harm than good by removing the camera just to get a larger install base initially due to the price.

I'm a firm believer of karma, in my eyes the Xbox has done nothing but try to correct wrongs it was not aware it had committed since its big reveal. Sony has done everything in its power to exploit and damage their image with cheap digs , when many who know the truth that both had similar plans but MS went first. I feel completely happy with my Xbox One Day One Edition preorder and am itching to play ryse, DR3 and Forza.

Most importantly, 'The New Kinect' is and will be an amazing experience which will become second nature in no time at all. I pity people who hate change and evolution. We all live in an ever changing world and no matter how hard you try, there is no stopping the future where things will never be the same. Embrace it or get stuck in the mud. Keeping gaming separate from everything else is key, and remembering why you started playing games in the first place.

[Gamer666]

I feel sorry for all the people who bought move for ps3 this generation. Rather then it being a success it has become a failure. Sony seems to want to forget about move. As it doesn't even have a primary title next gen.

On the other had MS is saying that Kinect was very successful for certain things like voice, dashboard, fitness, rail shooters, social sports, and Dance titles at the very least. So they have included it on every Xbox going forward.

There are a lot of families that look at how a console benefits not only the gamer in the home, but the whole family. By enclosing Kinect with Xbox, they are appealing to the casual crowd that looks at the Sony console, and says "what's in this for the rest of us?"

As more of a core gamer though I would love to see house of dead for Kinect and Time Crisis for Kinect. And also would love to play a Ages of Empires or Warhammer RTS with the depth of play found on PC but using Kinect instead of a keyboard.