“Strings Attached” To Xbox One Self Publishing

It turns out yesterday’s announcement of the Xbox One allowing indie developers isn’t quite as good as it seems according to Retro City Rampage developer Brian Provinciano.

According to Provinciano, Microsoft’s self-publishing announcement is “another example of them changing policy, but it sounding better than it is when the whole story is revealed.”

[allformats]

Hmm, many developers are skeptics of MS's self-publishing announcement. Let's just hope they come through with their promises!

[NewMonday]

what is it with MS, can't they just do something good without a catch for once?

[iamnsuperman]

It is all about history though. They may have turned over a new leaf but it would be stupid to forget the past and clearly a lot happened last generation that has made people/ indie developers uneasy about Microsoft. You have to prove yourself before you gain people's trust/respect.

[Hatsune-Miku]

"Hmm, many developers are skeptics of MS's self-publishing announcement. Let's just hope they come through with their promises!"

@ allformats

hope is unnecessary when it comes to microsoft because they always find a way to do silly things.

there is a better company out there named sony that is actively doing amazing things to appeal to gamers. its nice to hope for things but because these consoles arent necessary to sustain life gamers should support the better console.

people are hoping xbox one doesnt have bad hardware reliable issues, people are hoping it is supported a lot, that the cloud will aid its meager hardware power, that the system will get a lot of first party exclusives, and all sorts. sony is doing a lot of things right with ps4 that naming them all will making my mobile phone run out of ink. i always see people hoping for common sense ideas for the xbox one but are disappointed a lot or they try to explain things away.

the ps4 is better than the xbox one in everyway when it comes to video game so kneeling and holding hands in a circle chanting the things you would like from microsoft that ps4 is doing is silly. im getting a ps4 first day.

[DragonKnight]

Am I the only one that thinks that everything Microsoft says should directly be followed by Dr. Evil Air Quotation gestures?

http://cdn.meme.li/instance...

[Blachek]

Hope is a necessity, especially given my pre-disposition not to like Sony, based on my preference of "because".

Sony is not doing everything better. I want a media hub in my living room, XB1 will do that for me. To what extent exactly, I'm not sure. But I know I watch as much TV with my Wife as I do play video games alone, it's an investment for my living room and home. Sony is only good for games, the vast majority of exclusives which I have no interest.

I am going to wait to see if XB1 plays out after launch to be what I'm after, see how their marketing sells it and go from there. In all likelyhood I will end up buying 1, but I almost assuredly won't buy a PS4 unless Sony can produce an exclusive I think I need to have. I don't have the time for video games that I used to or the money to spend on consoles that only I can enjoy.

[xHeavYx]

It's a trap!

[gaffyh]

@Blachek - Yes, you need to buy a $499 console to watch TV. LMAO.

PS4 will be as good a media hub, if not better than Xbone, barring the TV integration. PS3 is already a better media hub than the 360, so why won't PS4 have all the same features and more? Also, Torne.

On topic - Sounds like what Cboat was saying on Neogaf, he also said there will be a kinect-less Xbone in 2014, so yet another reason to wait a while before buying this console.

[NewMonday]

@Blachek

you can get that new Google USB dongle, today almost any TV or device connected to a TV has a media hub, this is something standard today not revolutionary.

[Mr_Nuts]

You know it's funny I mentioned a few articles ago when they announced this that there would be a catch and I got disagreed to death for it.

http://n4g.com/news/1318726...

http://n4g.com/news/1318745...

Why do people never learn but instead call you Sony fanboys when all your doing is using your common sense and learning from Microsofts history

[HiddenMission]

@Blachek

Really all in one media center...really.

So all the XB1 does is replace your TV and cable remote kind of...

Truth is it has not been confirmed which providers will support it.

It doesn't replace your DVR if you have one.

So the question is what is it really doing that you can't get else where? Answer Kinect...and that's it...again kind of considering smart TV's have motion cameras and voice recognition already built in.

The only reason to buy a XB1 is for a small list of AAA exclusive titles and that is it. Most of those titles that we know of are more of the same either by existing IP's or same genre and no matter what anyone says Titanfall is nothing more than an FPS with mechs which has been done before...but now it's being done by the guys who did CoD so it must be the best thing ever...right.

Sorry for the rant you just seem to be very uninformed on what the consoles actually offer.

[dedicatedtogamers]

@ Mr_Nuts

You get massive disagrees because this site has gone full-blown Console Warzzz circa 2006, except this time around it's Xbox fans - not Sony fans - who are running around like chickens with no heads, desperately trying to defend their precious baby any way they can. What I'm wondering is where are all of the Xbox defenders from yesterday who insisted "it's over. Microsoft is gonna dominate the indie scene now" simply because XBox One supports quasi-self-publishing (and not even at launch).

I love getting called a "Sony fanboy" simply because I have stern words to say against Microsoft. Even though I play just as many games on my PC and Wii and my handheld systems. I'd be happy to be labelled as "Microsoft hater" (that's slightly closer to reality) but "Sony fanboy" reeks of paranoia.

"T-the t-the Sony f-fanboys! They're around e-every corner! Loook! There's one in this thread! L-look! There's one replying to your messages! Quick, that guy said something unkind about Mother Microsoft. He m-must be a SONY agent of disinformation!"

[XboxFun]

@ Mr Nuts and Dedicated

So where is the catch? The title of this article doesn't even reflect the actual story.

You guys are really trying way too hard to spin this into a negative.

The person of this article took ONE quote from one of the many developers interviewed and turned it into the title of this story.

And this was approved?

You guys get mass disapproves because(edit) you are wrong. Look at you two feeding off of the sensational headline and patting each other on the back. The headline has NOTHING to do with the story.

[Mr_Nuts]

@dedicatedtogamers

True...very true

I just want to know where they all came from, as someone pointed out a few days ago, they've only recently joined since either the reveal or the E3 show...and even now more people are joining just for that purpose.

"What I'm wondering is where are all of the Xbox defenders from yesterday "

Look at that there's one of them right below you and above me

HI XBOXFUN...how are you, fish doing ok...hows you kite lessons going?

[ThanatosDMC]

MS forcing Silverlight in order to use Netflix on PC. F Microsoft.

It used to work without perfectly but now it's the new and enhanced way. Lame.

I'm glad Netflix is going to drop Silverlight for something else. Too bad it wont happen anytime soon.

Same thing will happen to Xbone. MS will flip the switch somehow and screw loyal fanbase.

[dedicatedtogamers]

@ Mr_Nuts

"I just want to know where they all came from"

At best, they're just enthusiastic fans who are so passionate about gaming that they only just NOW made an account on the biggest aggregate gaming news site to jump in and defend Microsoft. Like our friend Mr XboxFun here, who joined 2 days ago and yet seems to know all the "big players" in the N4G community and who to "call out".

At worst, they're 100% shills who either make new accounts or drum up old accounts (seriously, I've seen members from 2006 appear after being absent for 3 years who return to post nothing but Microsoft Defense Force stuff).

Or it's people who've made alt accounts to accomplish one of the above situations.

In reality, I think it's a mix of all three. Microsoft wants to win the mindshare on the internet and they ain't gonna do it by simply letting fanboys rant and rave against them.

[indysurfn]

See! The masses DO forget in 6 months. Remember the PS2? Yeah it announced the same thing.

Remember the xbox(original), yep. Remember the xbox360 development kits for starters? The

devil is in the detail. How much will it cost? No really, it may be free to make the game(as

if that is special). How much to get it to market place, and tested by Microsoft, or a

approved testing company? What you going to do when they ask you how many people tested your

game. Have you tested it on a server. And a million quality questions that require multiple

independent individuals? What security measures you have in place? Do you have a Kinect

version of the game. Who reviewed your game for sexual content, sensitive issues. Do you

think all those Indie devs that complained about hoops, and red-tape where just kidding? You

think they are going to treat you better than several Indie developers making a game? If so

why would you do business with a company like that?

This is just a PR stunk because they know the masses forget, which is why they brought up the

CLOUD as if it was a new gen concept.

[XboxFun]

So still no answers? More congratulations for each other. You two love to talk a good game and get bubbles for feeding your nonsense to other sony fans. But when presented with actual food for thought, you guys seem to clam up real quick. In fact who is to say that you two aren't the same person and just bubbling each account up? You sure defend each other so.

Where is the catch?
Why was an article approved with a title that doesn't reflect the actual story?

Or will you two just talk off topic about who is who on N4G? Isn't that better suited in a PM?

http://n4g.com/news/1319276...

More clarification and straight answers.

[fr0sty]

@Xbox Fun, those strings attached are limiting developers from taking full advantage of the system.

"On PS4, for example, developers can tap right into the system; use every bit of RAM and all of its power. Indies have access to everything that the AAA studios do, from platform support to development and release. The indication on Xbox One is that it's essentially XBLIG 2.0. Instead of XNA, it's Windows 8. Windows 8, which is already struggling to gain developer interest, will gain a boost from developers wishing to target the console. However, it won't be as full-fledged as published games on the system."

In other words, unpublished games on XB1 are gimped. When even published games only get to use 6 of the 8 CPU cores and 5 of the 8GBs of RAM, unpublished games are going to suffer even more.

[fr0sty]

In MS' defense, they seem to be trying to clarify the mess around this. Phil Spencer recently tweeted that the goal was to not limit unpublished games' use of the system's RAM. We'll see how much their actions match their words though.

[rainslacker]

@XboxFun

Currently there is no catch. Or at least it's unknown. That is what the author is referring to based on the quotes from the indie developers. These indie devs don't know anything about it, and it's respectable that they at least admit they aren't too excited about it because they don't know the details. They are using their prior history with MS to remain skeptical on the idea until more is known. Something many a commenters on here would be wise to do themselves.

Everyone is assuming that this will give full dev kit functionality to the home user, or super small indie dev teams out there at a very reasonable price. I can say with 99% certainty that that will not be the case. All indications point to a run-time environment similar to XNA or PSMobile. That is a far cry from being able to code directly to the console hardware that big devs and established(or well funded) indie devs are able to do. Giving full dev kit access to everyone and their brother means the system would be hacked within a week of implementation.

Doing game programming contract work myself, I actually do like what MS is doing regardless of how they implement it. But I am not willing to scream MS praises about something that isn't going to be anywhere close to what people are making it out to be based on my own experience with how closed console dev software is. At most I will say "good for MS for doing something positive". No doubt some people who like making games, or are just hobbyist will love this feature, and no doubt some quality content will come from it.

[Urusernamesucks]

Okey?... whats the catch?

[bicfitness]

Whoever thinks that MS will allow full access to the hypervisor and all resources of the machine is delusional. Why the Hell would 3rd parties bother with licencing fees then? Will EA just release all their titles for a 70/30 profit split? You bet they will and there goes MS' income off of AAA software. The Devil is in the details, and I guarantee that there are details missing.

Plus, I don't know who would believe a word MS says after all the backpeddling we've watched them do on "principles" and "visions" in the last couple of months. They'll say whatever they can to dig themselves out of the hole. They've proven that they are the masters of obfuscation and double-speak. So let's wait until A.) more details arrive B.) the program is actually implimented in a year or whatever.

[Funantic1]

I seriously doubt a indie developer would really need the hyper-v because they won't exceed 5 gigs of RAM. They'll require far less RAM than a triple A game.

[NewMonday]

@Funantic1
it is wrong to assume Indy games are small little things, games like the Witness, Outlast and DayZ standalone,Warthunder and Warframe are not Angry Birds.

Indy just means you don't need EA or Ubisoft to sell your game.

[ThanatosDMC]

Some/A lot of indie games look even better than a lot of those so-called triple A games. Only difference is they used kickstarter and took a long time to make.

[torchic]

I think, fanboy or not, we should all be skepitcal of Microsoft when they make promises, it's the absolute least they deserve after their post-Kinect attitude towards the hardcore and what they initially tried to pull with the Xbox One.

self-publishing, Xbox One as a dev kit, no-DRM, TV, Games with Live etc. all those features sound great but I can almost guarantee you that there's a boat load of fine print behing every single one of them.

I don't trust Microsoft, and neither should you guys, not because of their product offering but because of their practices.

[jeffgoldwin]

And least we forget in all fairness, don't fully trust Sony either because of the security breech they tried to cover up and we fined heavily because of their wrong doing.

http://www.gameinformer.com...

[DigitalRaptor]

"tried to cover up"

Really, jeff? Like any company who has been breached/hacked, the first thing to do is find the hole, plug it, secure your systems and THEN inform people. There was no cover up, only an idiot would claim that.

I don't fully trust any company I support, but the least of which would be a company that puts their bottom line before the best interests of a consumer/developer.

[DragonKnight]

@jeffgoldwin: See, your comment had nothing to do with fairness in any way. You were just looking to cause trouble. What torchic said were examples of things directly in Microsoft's control. Things they wanted to implement and then changed their mind when the proverbial sh*t hit the fan. The PSN hack was not in Sony's control, they did not "backpeddle" on anything, and they followed standard protocol for situations like this.

Had they immediately told the public about what was going on, it could have hampered any investigations and counter-measures. But of course let's just forget about all that and try to blame Sony "in fairness."

[Hicken]

Hey, jeff. Busy being a fanboy again, I see.

So, when every other company in the world first figures out what the problem is before telling people there IS a problem, it's alright. But when Sony does it, they were trying to cover it up.

Yeah, that sounds pretty fair. I guess we should, in all fairness, not forget how breaches in Microsoft's security were blamed on the users, even though it was completely their fault. Oh, and that was after they spent months denying there even WAS a problem.

... somehow, I get the feeling you've already forgotten all that, though.

[nosferatuzodd]

Jeff when Microsoft found out about the red ring of death actually they know from the beginning that there was a flaw in the system
But did they address it no they were hell bent on trying to defeat Sony so bad they didn't give a damn about their loyal fan who buy their system and got the red ring i wish Microsoft love you guys the way you guys bent over backwards to defend them

[cleft5]

It's a step in the right direction anyways. I would prefer this coming from Julie Larson. No disrespect to Marc Whitten, but Julie is the big boss and I would prefer to have her stamp of approval on something that is said to be fully implemented at a later point in time. Still it is a step in the right direction.

[B-radical]

Title is misleading

[RM-TatoTiburon]

i really hope there is a catch...i don't want a full open console for everyone. This is not only for indie devs it also can used by mods and hackers and i will be piss off if we start to see mods or hacks for COD or BF4 or any game that ruins the multiplayer experience.

[HiddenMission]

Sorry wrong person :)

[avengers1978]

Of course there will be strings attached, they have to look for people ripping off other licenses, they have to look for mature content, and I'm pretty sure you need to be connected to a PC to develop games, I don't think you can just do it all from the console itself, and you probably need windows 8 on your PC as well.
I wouldn't get to excited for it until everything is known, and they actually put it out there, MS doesn't always follow through with there promises... Milo anyone

[rainslacker]

I think the catch most of these devs are referring to is more along this anology.

Sony allows you to develop games on the PS Vita. The catch is you have to use PSMobile to do so. PSMobile is a Mono run-time environment that allows you to use 64MB of memory(think this is right, been a while). It does not allow you direct access to the hardware like a real dev kit...hence a catch.

It's still not a bad thing, particularly for the hobbyist who likely wouldn't know how to write their own API's for direct hardware interface in the first place. For the bigger indie devs that know how to do this, it's not a reasonable alternative, as run-time environments affect performance.

[showtimefolks]

its MS there always a catch

know to over promise and under deliver, for once can't MS do one good thing and stick to their words

we will give you halo 3 and Ac2 for free oh wait no we can't

[Tee7soo]

xbox one is just getting better and better, day one.

[Ksar]

Same here. Best line-up so far.

[IcyEyes]

Do you work for M$ ?!?

[Aghashie]

@ IcyEyes

Haha! Come on, cut the guys some slack. There is nothing wrong w them being hyped 'bout the box. I am not getting one, though. But I reckon competition is the lifeblood of every industry.

We need them as much as they need us.

Anyway... Out of sarcasm, you make me laugh w ur comment.

[DragonKnight]

@Aghashie: IceEyes question is valid given the fact that the title says "strings attached to xbox one self publishing" and yet someone thought that that was a GOOD thing. Evidently indie devs are not in agreement, so someone saying "Xbox One getting better and better" is perplexing at the least.

[Aghashie]

@ DragonKnight

Yep... Indie devs are not very happy w MS. I give u that... but I was thinking on something difetent w I wrote my comment.

Allow me to elaborate a little bit.

I do not care if a fan bashes another fan cause he likes another product. That does not affect me at all. I will always make my own choices no mater what.

What amazes me is the collective behavior gamers are adapting lately against other gamers. Games are meant to entertain, not to fuel up negative attitudes against others. The more I read on sites and forums, the more convinced I am that this addopted attitude is a form of racism.

"I can't be your friend cause u like (Playstation/XBox). Jeez, bro. Yo gotta be a moron liking that s@it. You know what!? Get the f@ck out of my room - go, I meant it, go! Morons are not allowed in my room. Yeaaaa, you can take the Comic Book's you brought for me... Don't wanna read them anyway. Ha! I am gonna troll you so hard over the internet that you whish you didn't even have a computer! Everytime you post something - bang! - I am gonna be there trolling your sorry @ss. Yea, yea... I don't need friends like you... you f@cking niga."

I know my example is exaggerated. I wrote it that way in an attempt to highlight what I mean.

Some comments are inevitably funny, but still an attempt to troll someone is an attempt to troll someone.

As a say, I can't care less. I am just amazed by the stupidity on this social generation.

:/

[Consoldtobots]

don't be so naive aghashie, MS started the dirty pool last gen and it only devolved into a war since then.

[PFFT]

IcyEyes, do you work for $ony?

[DARK WITNESS]

I trust that was sarcasm...

[nick309]

Ps4 line up is mostly indies & mmos until they show new stuff at gamescom. .. Dosnet 100% bother me though as im getting all next gen consoles... I dont see why people argue which has the best line up anyway. Get both = get more exclusives.

[lgn15]

Nope, I think he might be getting a different console as you. Shocking I know, the almighty "dark witness" knows best he must be some kind of fool to like a different thing.

[DARK WITNESS]

@ lgn15

lololol,, the almighty Dark Witness, that made me laugh..

I owned both systems in the past, if MS can write their wrongs in my book I may own both systems again, but it's very unlikely.

I don't have a problem with other people wanting the xbox, I use to be a big xbox fan but I never had any problem with people getting the ps3 back then.

It does make me laugh when I read why some people want one and why they defend it and I like to talk about it just like anyone else on this website and if I think someone is talking like a fool I will say so, just like you prob would..

[I_am_Batman]

To be fair they started out pretty bad. But I'm glad to see that they are making the right moves now. Better late than never.

It was pretty obvious that MS had to introduce self publishing at some point before or shortly after the launch to be competative in the indie scene. I'm surprised that you will be able to use your own X1 as a dev kit though. That sounds awesome if it's done right. I hope for more details on how this will work soon.

[Consoldtobots]

making the right moves??

that makes it sound like this is all MS on their own volition when in reality they wouldn't have budged an inch if they preorders didn't start to tank and Sony's grow by leaps and bounds. It's one thing to put out a fire because you like doing the right thing and another to put one out with a gun to your head.

[sonic989]

i think that comment doesnt belong to this article
" is getting better and better " line should be used if it was positive article
so your comment is generally of topic

[GameCents]

Actually the article is positive. The submitter changed the headline to spin it into a negative.
Go ahead and read it and tell me what these strings are.

[Cherchez La Ghost]

Of course you're going to have rules. Just as long MS will be fair and open-minded to gamers who want to create games.

[vega275]

If he's already decided not to make games for xbox one or get a xbox one. How does he know anything about how they will allow or limit self-publishing. He's said on a number of occasions tha t he's had bad blood with them. I'm pretty sure they wouldnt keep him in the loop of anything new they are doing.

[Grown Folks Talk]

Exactly. They didn't even intend to release the info, yet he knows the exact details somehow. He admits bias, & based on past experiences will immediately downplay anything they do.

[MonChiChi]

Haha you act as if this guy doesn't know other indie devs or something. Ppl talk if you have not realized.

[Grown Folks Talk]

And why would they know full details from something that wasn't going to be announced for another month? And how come no others have said the same themselves then?

[vega275]

first off if MS just anounced this yesterday and will give further details about it down the road. meaning no one outside of MS knows the full details.....including these so-called other dev's he may or may not know.

second: by his own admission in the article. he has no intention of making any games for the X1 or buying one. so i highly doubt he would care to get any details even if they did.

[Brucis]

There's pretty much always 'Strings Attached' in business.

[pompombrum]

Do Sony have strings attached to their self publishing service?

[xReDeMpTiOnx]

No Sony allows full access the same access all the first party devs get no strings attached.

One of the indie devs states that in the article

[Clarence]

M$ again following Sony's lead again.

[iamnsuperman]

Does that really matter? It doesn't matter who comes first with what as long as it is there.

[Clarence]

Yep it does. Mainly because this is something they are doing because they tried, to f;ck over gamers and indie developers.

Now their trying to save face by again reversing their policies. Not to long ago Xbox fans on here talked $hit about how much support Sony was giving to indie developers.

Some even going as far to say that the indie game won't be good because its not a AAA game.

Now all of a sudden it's all good.

[ainsleyharriott]

Well it's pretty similar to what's on the 360 anyway with the XBLIG

[Cherchez La Ghost]

@Clarence

Calm down. Things happen for a reason. I hope the DRM Blacklash was a wake up call for them. The problem was their vision for gaming and consumer expectations were on two different levels. The issue was not sharing their ideas and listening to gamers. It's not what you do, it's how you do it. If you phuck up, do you want the world to ride on you negative always?! Or learn from your mistakes and keep it moving?! Everything is a process in life. "AND I HOPE" MS learned from their mistakes and change for the better in the future for themselves and their consumers.

[devwan]

@ainsleyharriott and that, according to devs, just isn't as good compared to what Sony offer indies.

[Tctczach]

Couldn't be that they are actually listening and trying to make things better. Shame on you Microsoft. How dare you make your console look better.

[hellvaguy]

If were playing the following game, sony copied the first xbox that included a hard drive instead of memory cards. Also ps4 has mandatory paid online that was also copied from guess who? Xbone is copying blu-ray.

No company is innocent of it. They all copy each other which is good overall for customers.

[SilentNegotiator]

More like Ouya's lead. Ps4 doesn't work as an indie dev kit.

[joeorc]

@SilentNegotiator

"More like Ouya's lead. Ps4 doesn't work as an indie dev kit."

well yes and no, sony has been allowing the playstation consumer to use their platforms to be used to make indie games and applications, for the most recent example the retail psvita unit can be used to test and run your playstation mobile created software.

and yoshida confirmed that the ps4 will have somthing akin to playstation mobile for the ps4 so its not right now , but the ps4 will have that functionality in the future of end user indie development on the ps4.

[theWB27]

The article title implies there's been some kind of update to the announcement other than what we heard today and that's not the case. We don't know of any strings attached because everyone is waiting on more clarification from Micro before they make their decision.

More Dev reactions-

Kevin Dent, CEO of Tiswaz Entertainment, sees the move as a way to open up console development to the masses.

"I love it," Dent told Polygon. "If you want to put a swear word in there, I fucking love it.

"If they're going the route of iOS where anyone can publish — where some kid in Ohio can make the next Angry Birds in his mom's basement (just to throw in a stereotype), this is brilliant news."

he policy reversal is "a move in the right direction," 17-Bit's Jake Kazdal told us, and the change has caused the studio to put Microsoft's next-gen console back on the table.

"We [previously] did not have plans to publish on Xbox One in the near future, but now it is a possibility, which is nice," Kazdal said. "A healthy range of choices for small developers is nothing but good news."

Gaijin Games' associate producer Dant Rambo sees Microsoft's reported move as good for developers and consumers.

"One of the bigger things, being a developer and a consumer, is that it puts Sony and Microsoft on equal footing, in a lot of ways, which is always good because it forces them to have to compete even more for our money," Rambo told Polygon.

The Rampage developer doesn't have anymore news than the next person, but stated regardless if it is true the relationship between the two is too damaged for him to even care.

[MoveTheGlow]

Yeah, the article's pretty misleading. Headline news, everybody! People are skeptical of details before said details are released!

Look, when I get a console, it's probably going to be the PS4, but I'd like to live in a world where indie developers have a stronger voice in the industry regardless of console. The little guys (and the mid-sized companies in Japan) are the ones that still make games I care about, so of course I'm going to say that.

[devwan]

Quoting Polygon and an interviewee who thinks some kid can just decide to make games for the One because he bought one from his local store.

Nobody knows how it'll work but you'd have to be blinded by the green light to expect every single person out there with a One to be able to produce and release games just because they bought the console... that's ridiculous.

[MoveTheGlow]

"Nobody knows how it'll work..."

That's the end of this entire story to me. Will there be strings attached to this plan? Absolutely, I'm sure. Does this article indicate anything new at all, any details, any quotes from people planning the thing, insiders, etc.? Nope. Just "I hope they don't do this other thing." I love busting the Xbone's cajones as much as anyone else, but this article's insubstantial.

[ceedubya9]

Whitten's own interviews paint a completely different picture than what Provinciano is talking about. It very well could be that this was Microsoft's plan at first, but what they seem to be doing based on interviews and the information we have at the moment seem to not have anything to do with Windows store. He probably has just as much inside info as everyone else (meaning not much at all right now). We'll all know soon enough when they finally give the full details.

[Geezus]

i'll leave this here:
"Our vision is that every person can be a creator. That every Xbox One can be used for development. That every game and experience can take advantage of all of the features of Xbox One and Xbox LIVE. This means self-publishing. This means Kinect, the cloud, achievements. This means great discoverability on Xbox LIVE. We’ll have more details on the program and the timeline at Gamescom in August."- Marc Whitten (xbox corporate vp)

[Clarence]

I'll leave you with this

Everything M$ has tried to pull with their Xbox 1 announcements has been a shot in the face to gamers and indie developers. All the reversals of their polices shows that they only care about the themselves. This guy Marc Whitten is going to say whatever he thinks is going to get the consumers and indie developers back on M$ side.

We've all seen what happens when you interview M$ top employees about the Xbox 1.

@geezus
MY comment is exactly why M$ is doing this. The average joe will not be able to afford to develope games on the Xbox 1. If M$ had this plan in mind, why is it you won't be able to do it when the console is first released?

I'll tell you why, because they just made it up yesterday. Everything they've done after E3 has been the result of the backlash. If they cared about consumers and indie developers then this would have been one of the first things talked about at e3.

While Sony had 5 indie developers on stage with demos running on big screens,
M$ could have battle back by saying every xbox 1 will allow you to develop games. I'm not saying this isn't a great thing, but M$ has proven time and time again that the consumers and indie developers are afterthoughts.

I don't have to make everything negative about M$. They doing a great job at it by themselves.

[Geezus]

so thats why theyre allowing anybody to self-develop with a retail console and with their self-publishing policies?
they could of easily just allowed self-publishing to make people happy and then go the nintendo route or the sony route where theres self- publishing but the retail consoles are locked out for anything but gaming and multimedia features, but MS is not and they are improving on that model, and giving US consumers goodies.
Stop trying to make everything negative this is good news and hopefully sony will follow suit by opening up their retail consoles for development.

[GameCents]

Waaaa waa waa waaaaaa. Lol shut up Clarence. Your bitter tears are salty and delicious but I wanna have other people's tears now. You've had your turn.

[joeorc]

@Geezus

"Stop trying to make everything negative this is good news and hopefully sony will follow suit by opening up their retail consoles for development."

that is the thing though, sony already said they were doing this well before this announcement by Microsoft, but yet i think that is what [Clarence ]has in his main point.

you say that

"hopefully sony will follow suit by opening up their retail consoles for development"

when Sony was already doing just that. for example the PSVita had with its first 6 months release allowed the end user to test their own software on a retail PSVita unit that they could if they wanted to make games and software for the playstation Vita. remember the Playstation Suite? that was talked about on stage the very same time NGP was announced by Sony.

but yet you have many still saying that Sony need to as you said:

"hopefully sony will follow suit by opening up their retail consoles for development"

I mean when this news broke, many were saying outright that this trumped what Sony was doing, yet ignored what Yoshida already stated months ago about the direction Sony was taking with PS4 development for the indie developer.

[GraveLord]

Really? It's just a bunch of PR crap. Here's what you need to know:

“On PS4, for example, developers can tap right into the system; use every bit of RAM and all of its power. Indies have access to everything that the AAA studios do, from platform support to development and release,” Provinciano explains. “The indication on Xbox One is that it’s essentially XBLIG 2.0. Instead of XNA, it’s Windows 8. Windows 8, which is already struggling to gain developer interest, will gain a boost from developers wishing to target the console. However, it won’t be as full-fledged as published games on the system.”

Basically indie games will be limited to a very small amount of RAM and system resources. The Xbox One is already weaker than the PS4 but these limitations will limit even indie games from appearing on the system. Not all indie games can run on a cheap laptop, which is what Xbox One will be reduced to with all of its limitations on self-publishing.

[Funantic1]

There needs to be regulations. I don't want every person thinking he can make a game and throwing it on the X1. That would be way too many games to browse thru.

[Clarence]

Oh it will be regulated. You can believe that.

http://www.dualshockers.com...

It will most likely be to expensive for the average joe to develope a game on the Xbox 1.
You will have to take out a personal loan.

[Ron_Danger]

Plus it will render achievements even more useless than they are since people will just publish free games themselves and boost their gamer score with things like "100 pts for hitting start."

[GameCents]

Or get a second job.

[Funantic1]

@Clarence the article link you provided is outdated because MS changed some of those policies since then.

[devwan]

When have ms done anything that doesn't leave the person tangled in red tape? That's not the ms way, they'll have very strict control... and if people think it's as simple as buying a $500 console and you're putting games out with no further costs, box ticking, promises made, etc. etc. you've not even sat down and thought about how it could possibly work for more than a minute or two.

[SharnOfTheDEAD]

It is our Vision, Vision? Why? Did they have an an epiphany or something? Because that wasn't their fucking vision 2 months ago. TV and Sports was their vision, ya know the important things?

It's good that they are doing it, but no doubt in my mind there will be strings attached. Such a thing should not be an after thought. Securing the Indie market should have been high on their agenda. This is just to try and give them a better image...

End of the day, a Whore with make-up is still a whore.

[Bzone24]

Shouldn't this be a rumor and not news?

[SharnOfTheDEAD]

This is one of the Sony guys I was following on Twitter Shahid Kamal Ahmad @shahidkamal Thought it was a pretty good passion fueled rant. Read from Bottom to Top.

Why do indies like working with us? You know what? Screw what I say. Ask them.

Why is our console going to be the most powerful? Because as Cerny said, we went out to our partners, we sucked it up and we listened.

My personal policy? I will break my back for our partners and our customers. Like that? Work with us.

I out my personal reputation at stake on behalf of my partners and my company. That’s my fucking policy. Walk over me before I let you down.

Why do I stick my email and personal Skype up on public display? That’s not policy. My PR would think I’d lost the plot.

Don’t talk to me about policy. Talk to me about people. Talk to me about games. About creativity. About new, cool stuff. About YOU.

What was my policy? It was to listen first.

We didn’t form an “indie policy”. I called and met every one I knew and they sent me to others they knew and I listened and responded.

Many of you in the business know me. I am a developer to the core. I bleed bits. Biz Dev is a tool. Policy is the formalisation of ethos.

[devwan]

love it!

THAT is PASSION. That is what you'll never get from a m$ suit.

[SharnOfTheDEAD]

he's extremely passionate and wants the best out of things. That's passion is what MS are missing atm, not this #DealWithIt attitude, thats not the way.

[Urusernamesucks]

Its is pr dude. How is this any diffenrent from what Geezus just said?

[Ron_Danger]

So can you actually program games on the XBox One or just alpha/ beta test them since they're saying it's a debug kit? I see tons of comments from people saying they can't wait to make they're own games, but have yet to see any articles that say you can program on the system.

[Geezus]

the retail version can serve as a dev kit similar to the ones actual Devs use to develop games according to Ms it will afford the same functionality also the Unity Engine can be used for free and it supports kinect

[Ron_Danger]

Cool... But that only partially answer my question. Are you still going to need a powerful computer to write game code and compose music, or can it all be done on XBox One? I think people might be confusing this with something like Little Big Planets level editor or the map editor in the Far Cry series.

And stop with the phantom disagrees. This isn't a troll attempt. I'm genuinely curious about it because if you can fully develope a game using just the XBox One then that's awesome.

[Geezus]

"As for what the process will be like for gamers and indie developers to publish on the Xbox One, Whitten only shared the basics with us today. He says that it will be a simple process of visiting a website to sign up as a developer to set up your console as a devkit. You'll be able to download the devkit and edit source code on your PC to transfer over to the Xbox One." from kotaku
http://kotaku.com/microsoft...

[Ron_Danger]

Thanks Geezus... At least some people on this site are mature

[Bolts]

Well DUH. Nobody program directly inside thier dev kit. Lol

[ElementZero]

Retail console with the update will have close similarity to a full capable development unit but they won't function the same in terms of freedom when developing. If you still believing in this ask yourself why would EA,Ubisoft and other big publishers pay for a hefty developer license and development equipment? They can just buy a bunch of retail consoles and develop their AAA paying the minimal license fee. There is clearly a missing piece of detail here. My personal view, this will be a way for Microsoft to promote the Windows store even more, I wouldn't even be surprised if they even introduce the ability to develop and play the same game on your Surface, Windows 8 machine and WP8.

[DiRtY]

Can somebody tell me what these negatives are? The article failed to name them.

[Cmk0121]

what strings are attached?

[GraveLord]

Limited system resources. Basically indie games will be limited in the same was as Apps. Self-Published Indie Games = Apps

[ramtah]

Pff still getting PS4.

[ElementX]

Pff still getting both

[PFFT]

ramtah
Pfff good for you.

[Rai]

once again..MS isn't helping themselves by not be clear.

[ceedubya9]

Well, they weren't going to announce this until Gamescon. This leaked when it is possible that all of the details weren't finalized. Call Microsoft slow in getting the message out, sure, but this did get out before they were ready to make it public. It makes sense that they aren't ready to give out all of the info yet. Sadly, recent events still don't make it look any better to most people.

[Rai]

Ms really shouldn't of answered anything, let it leak and answer nothing until gamescom.

[PFFT]

Im sure the will have more info at gamescom.

[ceedubya9]

Some things that I think people need to take into consideration when taking Provinciano's word as gospel:

He obviously has a bad history with Microsoft. He openly states that he has no plans to support or buy an Xbox One. Considering his current relationship with Microsoft, I'd look into his comments as nothing but speculation at this point. Plus, he seems to be the only indie developer to speak at this point as if he has inside information on what this new policy is. I'd be highly surprised if he does. Cautiously optimistic seems to be the tone of most developers, though.

[gamertk421]

Nothing different from what was said yesterday, but with a decidedly negative connotation, because, you know, it's N4G.

[sigfredod]

Lol another 180 on XBOXONE, doing all that PS4 anounce since day one, oh well soon they will change the number from one to 4 RFLOL

[Grown Folks Talk]

Complain to high heaven about the original policies, then continue to bitch & moan when they change the policies to what you want. "Oh it's just a PS4 now." Well when they tried to differentiate themselves you all cried like babies.

[christocolus]

This article is so so misleading, what are the strings attached? , has ms confirmed anything? This article makes no sense, Its just another pathetic attempt to bring ms down for no reason and its really so sad, any type of article is put up here its almost as if those at the top here are fan boys themselves but guess what? this sort of articles won't change anything or even gamer opinions it only gives N4G a bad image. MS started the push for indies with XNA on xbox 360 and they will continue to innovate where ever they see fit...

[unicron7]

Of course there are strings attached. It's Microsoft. There's a reason why most indi devs hate MS now. They were screwed repeatedly.

[NeoTribe]

The second I heard about all this, the first thing I thought was im sure theres some hidden bull somewhere Microsoft is hiding. Its amusing watching a corrupt company like this try to hide its face now that its been exposed. Lotta little tricks and PR swindles. There lucky they have a "special" kinda fanbase that wont unlatch from the teet.

[Rnarkus]

I seriously don't understand you people. Okay, so Microsoft tried f*cking us over in the beginning. They realized it was a mistake and now they are backtracking on everything they originally had. What's the problem here? All you people say they "changed it for themselves" which makes no sense. They changed their polices for the gamers, because they saw it wasn't popular. I mean get the f*ck off your high horse and realize that this is the way it is. Stop having delusional thoughts that Microsoft is doing it for themselves and not the gamer. That's just soooo stupid. I mean apparently ANYTHING Microsoft does is bad. They are trying to f*cking fix things for christs sake!

End rant.

[unicron7]

They weren't going to change anything until they saw how crappy their preorders were going on gamestop and amazon. Money was the deciding factor in Microsoft's change in direction, not it's fan-base. They could care less about what people want...which is obvious from the kinect that they are trying to force on everyone at launch. No thank you. I will never forget that they tried to throw us under the bus for the sake of a few extra bucks.

[NeoTribe]

They seen sonys dominance and seen the money go by bye. So they are slowly giving you your consumer rights back. Just enough to shut you up. Sony didn't try and screw us over in the first place, so that's why there getting the majoritys buisness. Plain and simple. When your gf cheats on you do you get rid of her or try and build the trust back again. The trust is gone my friend. Move on.

[Hueynewton2012]

My goodness its as simple as this. Gamer' s who do not have blind loyalty to MS are critical of what they do because MS's original plans didnt iclude any of this. The bottom line for me is, why should i trust anything they say or sell when they knowingly sold me two system that failed in under six months after purchase? How the fuck do consumers trust company is beyond me..... someone give me one reason why they should be trusted...

[SniperControl]

Damn, wrong article!

[JohnCartenper]

Who cares

[JunioRS101]

This obviously wasn't central to the Xbox One's development if it's just being changed now. Which means that the Xbox Interface wasn't developed and coded around the idea of indies, which means there probably won't be a promoted or supported indie scene, because they already had their 'no indies' OS and interfaces developed by the time they made this U Turn, and I don't know if they can manage to rework their whole marketplace infrastructure adequately by launch time.

Microsoft, we caught you trying to pick our pockets, and only when we noticed you pretended like you were going to shake our hands.

[JohnS1313]

Microsoft sure is getting desperate. What's next? With the Xbone be free?

[_FantasmA_]

M$ will find other ways to screw people over. For example, I wouldn't doubt it if you need to buy an XboxTV to receive the TV content. There goes $1000!

[kostchtchie_]

Dunno how this could work, look at all the trouble developers have putting patches and stuff out for there games on MS system, and what about MS stance on being closed system, how will this affect what you can and cannot do as indie developer, as much as i cannot stand MS, i am gamer and if this self publishing for indie developers helps make other gamers experience on there system better i am all for it

but i am skeptical, i mean if they really wanted to do all this, it should have been at the for front of there campaign, instead what did they do? try and lock the system down, control used game market and push draconian DRM on gamers and retail, and after the back lash now we get all these changes...

i personally will never pickup MS system ever but i hope they do not screw over fellow gamers or indie developers