CVG - Considering how the Uncharted series has raised the bar on several levels and now with The Last Of Us being arguably even better, do you think Naughty Dog has done enough to be considered the new king of computer games?
Speaking on what’s coming next for Naughty Dog, which could be either their new IP or The Last Of Us Part III, Druckmann gave what he seems to feel are realities of the project he’s talking about. That it’ll both be “really ambitious” but also “really hard.”
Neil Druckmann talks about Naughty Dog's Next Game which is really ambitious and parts of it are hard to make! pic.twitter.com/IqY2KEI1Gb
— DomTheBomb (@DomTheBombYT) March 1, 2024
"I’ve really surrendered to knowing it’s going to be really hard, knowing it’s going to stress members of the team out"
As if crunch wasn't stressing them enough
So the people who remained in a studio that had tons of workers quiting and others laid off said that they don't have to crunch, and you are just believing that
They absolutely will wind up having to crunch. Happens at the end of almost every software project development cycle, especially with release date pressures. It's part of the job. Obviously they aren't in a crunch when they aren't in that late phase. But it's wishful thinking if they think they won't see that stress again. Druckmann himself seems to be aware of that.
Yes I believe them. The people who want to crunch can do it. The people who mentally and physically can't, don't actually have to. Some have young babies at home. Things have changed since the Schreier report.
@helicoptergirl
It wishful thinking to think some workers can choose to crunch or not to do so. That’s akin to people you work with saying they don’t have to do work they don’t like and you’re the one that has to take up the slack. That’s not how things work. Especially if your the person assigned to a specific task that has to be completed for the development to move forward. It’s a team sport when it comes to making a game. As with most things in life. Now that they are a smaller group, it’s even more important for everyone to pull their weight. Peace
@rlow that was exactly the mentality before the exposure and it was talked about and reported on. It's different now. You know, sometimes things and attitudes just change for the better. They knew they needed to change and they have and they're not stopping trying to make the creative environment as good as it can be.
When someone pays another person to do a specific job in exchange for a certain rate of pay, it's called work.
They didn't sign to crunch and neither were they paid for it, people were hospitalized in Naughty Dog
Exactly most of these people wouldn’t last a season in the trades.
I f******* love how many people are doing a complete 180 on their views of crunch culture despite the awful stories reported on over the many years just because we’re talking about NaughtyDog
You can’t just cherry pick what to be mad about
“They signed a contract…it’s called work…that’s life…it’s a job”
I mean really guys, if this was EA you’d be having a field day
I bet you any money if any of these guys regardless of studio went in and said to their superior “Listen, don’t feel like the over time tonight, I’ll just stick to my normal contracted hours if that’s alright” I highly doubt they’d be given a warm response
@Tristan1982: The problem is crunch is because of the inefficient management and sudden changes in projects. ND made major story changes based on some feedback, that results in months of rework, redesign, etc. And none of those changes were built into the project from the get-go, so they still have to meet a deadline.
@H9: One person. And they did sign up for crunch, ND is notorious for hiring people who don't mind it. That's the problem, they tell you who they are, people just aren't listening. And, they did get paid, just their QA level of people are paid shit, which is an industry issue for something so freaking important. And people wonder why we have such broken games at launch. Because companies don't want to pay to deliver as long as people will buy enough to get them past first few months of patches and then re-release a major patch with an expansion to get people to come back.
@-Foxtrot " You can’t just cherry pick what to be mad about " -- N4G home of 'hold my beer' on that alone.
The kindda guy to guilt trip others into overwork or tell them to be better slaves ('employees'). Exactly what corps like. How does it taste?
Assuming you have a job, how would you feel working 80 hours a week for the same pay? You’ve not experienced crunch otherwise you wouldn’t be speaking like this.
As somebody who has crunched before. No, it wasn't my choice, no, you couldn't handle it, and no, you don't work in a better industry than I do.
exactly, get the game out before PS6 and if it takes crunch, or over time which you get paid for, get on with it
"Assuming you have a job"
Assuming I haven't worked more for less, I suppose. And yes, I do.
"Shh... your in the era of feeling sorry for people."
I feel awful for the people that fought for the workers and got stuck holding the bag and lost everything.
"no, you couldn't handle it, "
You mean "I"
I really hope this isn't management BS stress. I get wanting to put the best out, finding the best new ways and concepts, and ensuring your design is just top notch and not wasteful and fulfilling, but when I hear some manager talking about this my first thought is "Are these jerks changing paradigms on a regular basis that's making people play catch up and redo work to meet their new goals?"
That it’ll both be “really ambitious” but also “really hard.”
Not 'is' but 'will be', kinda suggests that they haven't started yet, hope not.
Come on ND, a game PLEAAAAASSSSEEEE. Desperate this gen.
From the article:
“Working on this new game, it’s really ambitious, parts of it are really hard,…”
That is the actual quote. They are already working on it.
Yeah, a lot of people push fake narratives about NaughtyDog and misquote things. That quote is very straightforward.
https://twitter.com/MitchyD...
Above is the complete debunking of a false story that still gets spread around all the time. And the bad faith actors doing it also only pin it on Druckmann for some reason and ignore Straley. They want to portray Druckmann as an evil schemer, even when the false story they're spreading doesn't align with their narrative. They don't care about reality ...
SuckerPunch doesn't get even 1% of this criticism and they haven't provided any update whatsoever on their next game, and it's a sequel not a new IP, so turnaround would be quicker. That's not logical.
Also, just off-topic slightly but..
Does anyone think that layoffs now may well be making space for AI integration of game development, and 'crunch-time', 'unsustainable', 'big budget' are all terms been used to butter us up to receiving the news that AI integration will help and maintain the level of AAA games that were accustomed to? Perhaps the layoffs were the devs that didn't join a union quick enough and if only they had the smarts of SAG members and strike while the time is right, before its too late?! Imagine DEV's on strike at a time like this, there's already a game drought.
I work in manufacturing. Layoffs here to. Especially people with no skill. I feel bad for them more then anything.
I work in advertisement, Im being laid off in may despite being the 3rd best on my team of 15 just under the team lead and assistant team lead, and the assistant team lead is out next week. Yet the last two years we've all been congratulated for record numbers. Times are weird.
Game drought. Lol what. I can't keep up. There's so many dope games releasing. I gotta ask what do you play
Not Naughty Dog games, not this gen. You know, Naughty Dog? Who the article is about?
Is this supposed to be a big gotcha after Microsoft laid off 1,900 and we're ignoring that? Let alone the over 16,000 other layoffs from Microsoft in 2023?
This is an article talking about Sony, no one said anything about Microsoft
And we should always be reminded of it like people are doing with Microsoft, Sony shouldn't get a free pass either
Yes, and this article is 100% about Sony firing people.
ND says new game is ambitious - until Sony lays off 900 more staff to save costs!
Sony publishes new gameplay video - until Sony lays off 900 more staff to save costs!
Sony announces weekend sale deals - until Sony lays off 900 more staff to save costs!
A new The Last of Us 2 documentary reveals that Naughty Dog almost made a different version of the PS4 and PS5 game similar to Bloodborne.
Kind of a misleading comparison. They were simply talking about the game being melee oriented and more of an open world. I wouldn't compare a game to a soulslike based on that.
Open world in a very specific sense though. The sense of exploration and discovering shortcuts within a large, challenging area would feel great in a survival game like TLOU. But I'm sceptical it would be nearly as satisfying without the bonfire/lantern respawn system.
A more melee oriented Last of Us 2 would've been so much better imo. The combat mechanics barely got any use from me cause everyone just shoots at you, and then the Scars with their bows are even more annoying. Level design was also more Bloodborne, and I love the level design in Souls game, there's a real sense of scale and exploration due to the branching paths. We really gotta move away from open world in the style of GTA and BoTW and do it more like Souls.
Completely agree with your final comment. Semi-linear open worlds like those in soulslikes are by far the most satisfying. Even Elden Ring (which is of course amazing) loses some of its heart due to it's open world.
@SnarkyDoggy
Of course, my comment was my opinion, and may be different to yours.
I completely agree that Elden Ring's world is incredible. The design of every inch of its map is fantastic, with so much care that has been put into its layout and design to tell a story in the classic ambiguous way that FromSoft always manage. I would argue with anybody, any day of the week, that there is no finer example of open world design anywhere in gaming across all platforms and genres.
However, the 'heart' that I speak of is perhaps more aligned with gameplay. The more linear form of the previous games provides a distinct level of focus and determination that Elden Ring lacks due to the nature of it's open world. In Dark Souls, Bloodborne, etc. you often have between one and three bosses available to you at any time, requiring dedication and a certain level of grit. You have to learn each boss, master the techniques required and vanquish them before moving on. Between 60% and 90% of the bosses in each game generally result in this experience.
I had no such experience in Elden Ring, except for the fight against Malenia, because the nature of the open world meant that there was always something else to do and explore. The open world encouraged this, meaning that I spent most of the game over-levelled for the bosses I was facing. And I didn't even go out of my way to over-level.
To conclude, the heart of Soulsbourne games isn't inherently the difficult; it's the grit and determination required to beat them. There are other things that factor into the soulslike genre, but that gameplay loop is the real soul of the series. And Elden Ring, mostly due to it's open world, lacked that particular aspect.
As I have said, you are welcome to disagree with me! But I hope that further explains my original statement.
I don't think we need to move away from a gta open world style. There's room for all. I enjoy open and linear along with in between. If you have an issue I imagine it's on the devs.
An in-between then should be considered more often. I'm just not a fan of the long stretches of land of nothing. Idk whatchu mean by the last thing tho, I like ND.
Def did good with their own thing I'm so over the whole copy souls combat sheesh I can dee if in certain games it would be bosses that looked like a souls boss but straight out copying the combat and feel takes away from a game that supposed to be its own lol
Following a string of remakes and a cancelled The Last of Us multiplayer game, Naughty Dog needs to leave a mark within the PS5 generation.
The second NaughtyDog show their next game, I think we all know that any concern about them leaving a mark will be gone. NaughtyDog publicly stated that they're working on multiple big single player games and when they're shown off they'll be closer to release. Demoing TLOU2 3 years early caused some crunch so they're avoiding that now.
https://gamerant.com/naught...
SuckerPunch are also yet to leave a mark this gen or announce a PS5 game. There was a long 6 year gap between First Light and Ghost Of Tshushima too and they had to cancel another game and restart development. https://youtu.be/aR_E-nbeI4...
I think both will be fine. GOW Ragnorok and Horizon Forbidden West were iterative sequels still also made for PS4 and they still took around 5 years.
And?
Yeah the next game might be great but it doesn't automatically excuse and cover up how they've handled themselves in the recent years.
You talk about Sucker Punch but at least they were focused, they had a game it didn't work, they restarted development. They didn't come out like Neil did with Factions and pretend everything was hunky dory "Yes we will have info coming at the end of the year, Yes everything is going smoothly" etc
The fact is so far for being Sonys biggest studios NaughtyDog hasn't done a new IP since TLOU in 2013 and the last NEW game in general was TLOU2 in 2020. Everything they've done has been Remasters or Remakes, hell they even took over the awful PC port of TLOU. By the time a new game comes out it will be 2025 at the earliest.
Key people have left, the work has gotten slower, structure doesn't seem to be there anymore, there's been rumours of management issues, crunch, they've cancelled something, Neil the ONLY guy in charge now seems to be more bothered about his TV show...I mean, come on. If this was any other studio these concerns would be justified.
@Foxtrot, if only you where as critical of other none Sony studios your complaint would be more believable. Why should you expect ND to abandon the Tlou ip after on a mere 2 games when every other studio has made several sequels to their popular ip. You hold ND to this standard you won't hold any other studio to. The ND haters better get their complaints in now because once they show off their next game everything else will pail in comparison.
Fanboyism is like the idea older generations had regarding corporations and tenure/loyalty. They all thought they mattered and cared about them. Only to realize how little do these companies people work for care about them. That same treatment, is for gaming Companies.
Naughty Dog has really hurt you so so bad. It's honestly very pitiful at this point
@derek
Lmao I have been, I call both which is why people say the yOuR nEgAtIvE reply to me. No one is off limits
One minute you’re a Sony fanboy
The next your a Microsoft fanboy
So on and on…
@Redeption
Here he comes, upset because someone said something about a studio he adores
This is why studios fall, like BioWare, because of die hard fanboys like yourself who hates when someone says something mean about them. Bless.
I do find it adorable you have this massive thing about me, just being an overall ass about it. Not surprised at someone who boot licks GaaS games and defend them so…
None of these replies so far have actually countered my points, you think calling me as a person does that when it really doesn’t.
Fox, I know what you're getting at but jeeze man this whole Neil thing, you gotta let it go. The guy is a writer. You guys didnt like the story, we liked story. End of.
And as for ND, who doesnt want a new ip from them. We all do. Remember how people call out on R*? These guys haven't released a game in 10 years...q0 freaking years. 1 trailer was all it took and they forgot everything and looked forward to 2025. This will be the same with ND...unless they somehow do a redfall of some sort.
@Fox, you made no valid point to address. You still haven't explained why ND should abandon Tlou after just 2 games with the ip or why anyone should expect a new game from ND now since the just released their last one just 3.5 years ago. The rest of your rant was just regurgitating internet nonsense about factions based on speculation of speculation or the fake supposed mass exodus of ND employees.
@derek
No no, you just choose to ignore points and gloss over them.
Yes the next game might be great but like I said it doesn’t excuse how they are currently handling themselves.
Sucker punch did restart development before GoT sure but going off interviews and their portfolio they seem to be better structured at the moment
Neil did continue to big up Factions, there’s a bunch of update posts on their social media. Look it up they are there
ND hasn’t done a new IP since 2013 and the last brand new game that isn’t a remaster or remake was in 2020.
Key people did leave the company, you’re talking about a mass exodus? Never mentioned those words in the above post. Key people. Which is true. Amy Hennig left, Bruce Straley, Evan Wells.
I mean I could go on, I’m not saying anything wrong. You just don’t want to admit that there’s anything wrong with ND which is why great studios can decline because die hard fanboys refuse to say anything
I remember people trying to cover BioWare in the early days and look what happened
So yeah boot lick harder I guess, they aren’t gonna give you a tour of the studio you know.
@Redemption-64 TLOU 2 broke him since they killed his father Joel. It’s sad. We know he’ll rip whatever ND does next.
@outsider1624 The last Rockstar game was 5 years ago. Did you forget about RDR2? Lol
@Steak
Oooo more personal attacks and immature responses from N4G assholes because they can’t come up with decent counter arguments. What? Did I call you out in a previous article months or years ago and you’ve held a grudge ever since?
How scary…
Yeah I didn’t care for the story in TLOU2 but even if I did and loved the sequel my opinion on ND right now wouldn’t change. I know that’s a hard pill to swallow but…that’s how it is.
Exactly right. Sony Fanboys will disregard valid criticism for sure. Just like Xbox Fanboys do. It's a shame because naughty dog used to be great.
I'm sure their next game will be awesome, like what happened with TLOU2. That game is one of the best (or literally the best) looking during PS4 days. If they don't release a new PS5 exclusive game during the console's lifetime, that will be the time I will help you criticize Naughty Dog.
Foxtrot, whilst there are valid reasons to have concerns about Naughty Dog, the problem with many of your opinions is that you're holding unrealistic viewpoints about them that could also be applied to other Sony Studios.
Sucker Punch have two games, Infamous and Ghost of Tsushima, which came out in 2020. That's since the PS3 generation. Santa Monica has God of War only, and it took them five years to release God of War (2018) after Ascension and then almost four years to release Ragnarok (2022). Guerrilla Games made Killzone since the PS3 era and created Horizon (2017) followed by Forbidden West five years later in (2022) and their VR experience in 2023. Media Molecule released three games from 2014 to 2020. Insomniac are an exception but they have made three Spider-Man titles and a remaster across more than five years, as well as Ratchet and Clank at launch. Bluepoint Games has released four games since 2015, two remasters and two remakes.
Naughty Dog had The Last of Us Part 2 in 2020 and The Last of Us Part 1 Remake in 2022. They have three franchises, Jak and Daxter, Uncharted and The Last of Us.
Why are you acting like anything strange is going on here in terms of gaming releases? They're on par with all other Sony Studios barring Insomniac.
What I will give you however is the bad communication on Factions, key personnel leaving and an over reliance on remastering. But beyond that, we can't really say much until we see what their new IP looks like.
Some key people may have left but if you take a minute to look up who is there its absolutely insane the people working there are some of the best in the industry. They will be fine
ND has allegedly been trying to address crunch culture, which may go some way to explaining the slower pace, and that would be a good thing.
I'm personally no longer in a rush for any game anymore as there are already more good games in existence than I'll ever have time for, plus I'm less interested in 'movie games' than I used to be.
I'm personally disappointed with Naughty Dog's output this gen, I'm more surprised that people aren't upset with them since they're only significant releases have been unnecessary remakes of games that aren't even old enough to justify the treatment.
It reminds me of Square-Enix where, for the longest time, they avoided releasing/announcing a new FF game, it's like they didn't know what to do with the franchise, so they kept using left over assets to make direct sequels and side games. I kinda feel that Naughty Dog is in the same position and just milking their most popular franchise (I'm really shocked they haven't tried to milk Uncharted as well). For me, this raises warning flags, even though I don't think Naughty Dog is quite at that point, but we'll see what happens in the next few years, surely, they would have a brand new game ready for release by then.
***The second NaughtyDog show their next game, I think we all know that any concern about them leaving a mark will be gone.***
I'm not into blind fan-service like this. Naughty Dog has to earn my support and right now they haven't delivered in over 3 years.
Listen to yourself dude, the idea that a dev team can knock out games of thie quality put out by ND every 3 years is ridiculous. It's been 3 years and for a good chunk of that 3 years we were in a global pandemic. I understand wanting to see what's next, I am hungry for that too, but the idea that because ND haven't released a 'new' game in 3 years they must be struggling is bonkers.
I think it's more annoying because instead of directing man power to a new game, they've gone to mention several times that they've directed resources and labour to producing the remakes of TLOU 1&2 which you can easily argue weren't needed.
***Listen to yourself dude, the idea that a dev team can knock out games of thie quality put out by ND every 3 years is ridiculous.***
What they have produced in the last 3 years have been time wasters that are telling me that they're focused on old games and not new ones. Let alone having to can an ill (and IMHO wasted) attempt at a GaaS MP stand-alone game. Let alone there are two ND teams now and the one has been working on a game for over 4 years now and yet nothing on it.
Compared to what has come out of ND to what I want to see? ND has to earn my support and right now they haven't delivered in over 3 years.
I'm not a fan of live service at all, but I do think Factions had the potential to be pretty fun a chance of being quite popular for Sony, shame it's not being salvaged in any way, like a non-live service or a standalone non-f2p.
Certainly had more potential than Marathon and Fairgame$ lol.
I am hoping they can use a lot of the live service factions for just a MP mode on Last of Us Part 3. Similar to the first
@CrashMania I think you meant Concord. Marathon is being made by Bungie. They know how to make multiplayer.
I know they'll release a big title this gen, but it is really delayed as are many PlayStation 1st party studios. Likely too late to release more than one this gen though, this live service BS really jammed up everything 😞
As much as I'm loving my PS5 and enjoying the games released thus far, I got to admit, despite an initial strong start with first party games, it's lacking quite a fare bit compared to previous generations.
Other than the The last of us part 1, Naughty Dog has yet to actually release a new game for PS5 whereas in the past multiple titles have come out for Psone, PS2, PS3, & PS4.
Many of Sony's other first party studio are very quiet, with no new PS5 titles announced from them... Hopefully we'll see something from their studios sooner than later.
We are only 3 years into the generation, Sony has done far better in their release cadence then for any other generation before. People complain online too much these days becuase we are constantly told we have something to be upset about by the fake news merchant's.
This is simply not true, I've been there for every PlayStation launch, and while this one had better launch titles than say PS3, 1st party has been lacking since. 1st this cross gen stuff just made for very half step feel sequels, and although good games, they don't feel like a "next gen" thing because at their core they aren't. Now it's this live service push delaying all major projects. Year 2 is when PlayStation generations start dropping those next gen experiences, those games that wow you and show you what this new hardware can do, changing even the foundations of how games can be designed, yet here we are entering year 4 and the only 1ST party games made specifically for PS5 are Spider-Man 2, Ratchet and Clank, and Demon's Souls
the only game I see in the horizon that has been announced that is really showing the next gen I have been waiting for is GTA6.
PlayStation 3 took off in year 3
PS4 took off in year 2
Ps5 is holding a line…
But has yet to scream gen defining as of yet.
I have no doubt they will…
But this is the slowest of gens as of yet and yes.. Covid had its impact.
The good news is, where Sony was going to go with live service is not the goal any longer.
They have read the market, and the market no longer is on board with “attempts” at live service.
Said the same thing and I got roasted.
PS3 gen by this time we would have Uncharted 3 already from ND.
We had shit load of 1st party AAAA games by then
@Zenzuu @isarai Spiderman 2 Rift Apart, Returnal, and Demon Souls are still much better than Killzone Shadow Fall, Knack, Infamous Second Son, and The Order 1886. Yes the PS4 had more exclusives during it’s first 3 years. But they weren’t better. Give me quality>quantity. More PS5 exclusives will come.
You sure are missing a ton of games bruh. We are at the end of PS5s 3rd year, by this time on the PS4 we had
Killzone shadow fall
Knack
Playroom
Driveclub
Infamous second son
Little Big Planet 3
MLB 14
Bloodborne
MLB 15
Order 1886
Until Dawn
Ratchet and Clank
MLB 16
Last Guardian
Uncharted 4
And that doesn't include remaster/remakes, standalone expansions, VR and smaller titles like unfinished swan.
PS3 had
Genji
Resistance fall of man
Folklore
Heavenly Sword
Lair
Motorstorm
Ratchet and Clank tools of destruction
Uncharted Drake's Fortune
Warkhawk
Afrika
GT5 Prologue
Hot Shots Golf 5
Little Big Planet
MLB 08
Motorstorm Pacific Rift
Resistance 2
SOCOM Navy Seals
inFamous
Killzone 2
Ratchet and Clank a crack in time
Uncharted 2
Also yes quality is also part of my issue, gowr, hfw, Smmm, and even DS are all games designed around limitations of older generations and while they are all great games, they are still ps4/3 games, just with high res and faster loading screens, but this hardware can do much more than that above previous gens, and things like R&C Rift Apart, Matrix UE5, and GTA6 are really showing what we should have been seeing as the new standard over a year ago
@isarai, nope this gen we've had 2 Spiderman games a gow game, returnals, ratchet, ff16, gt7, gt7vr, hfw + burning shores, demons souls etc etc. No previous playstation has ever had this amount of quality exclusives this early, none (maybe the ps2 my memory is foggy there).
Yes i knw about rdr2. The point was actually about how i saw people being disgruntled because they haven't released gta since 2013..and saying how they've fallen/will fall after houser left. One trailer was all it took to frget everything..lol.
This is why I haven't bought a PS5, I just haven't had compelling reasons to do so, it's a pretty weak line up thus far compared to previous gens.
ND's last brand new release was a mere 3.5 years ago, why is everyone expecting a brand new game from them now given current dev timlines. The remakes/remasters are fine it allows the company to earn money while they cook. Especially given the technical craftsmanship on display in their games it will take time.
Because as far as anyone knows, that time gap hasn't resulted in much development leading to any new releases anytime soon.
This is true
3.5 years
So they should , SHOULD have smoothing in the next 6months to 1.5 years
Which means, they SHOULD, perhaps have something to show pretty soon/ soon-ish
And IF they don’t, I will become worried too
Naughty Dog has more than one team though. One team launched a game 3.5 years ago, and cancelled the MP project they'd broken off from that game. What have the rest of the devs been working on? How does ND have nothing new to show 3 years into a new gen? Not even a title?
I would say they have provided me with two of the best experiences this generation so for now, in my opinion they are my favorite developer.
They are really freaking amazing no doubt there...
I think they are....they are one of the few companies to push themselves, do harder things to create better experiences and always try to get the best out of the console.
I'm not saying their perfect, they kind of have a little reputation with the online games where they fix the stuff that doesn't need fixing and leave the stuff that does need fixing. Plus I never liked what they did to Uncharted's multiplayer with Uncharted 3 but they've done a lot for gaming and I respect them for it.
I'd say they are! They have achieved this generation what no other developers have. Awards left and right for many different things from all over the world. Goty, best character, best story, technical achievements, etc.
They definitely are the best developers this gen and closed it with a gem, The Last Of Us. Can't wait to see what they have for PS4!
I don't really know to call them King... can anyone rightfully hold that claim? I will say, they are VERY good at what they do.