Wii U eDRAM Explained by Shin'en

Iran White writes:

Lately, and really all along, there has been some confusion as to just how the large amount of eDRAM (32mb) fits into the Wii U memory hierarchy, and just what advantages the huge amount gives the Wii U.

Shin’en, whom we feel know as well as anyone in the business, have been so gracious as to offer the gaming world what they describe as the General Impression they have of Wii U eDRAM.

[Need4Game]

All Xbox 360 games on Wii U, why not?

[Qrphe]

Regardless of what they say, they obviously didn't have enough resources to do what they wanted with the game since NAN ended up 720p.

[ibroman]

They only used one core for that game i bet if theybused more it would be 1080p.

[disciple9]

They actually had the game running in 1080p, but it was a waste of fill rate as the game looked no different, so they used those resources for extra effects instead

[Qrphe]

@disciple9

Exactly my point, they didn't have the extra sauce for 1080p. Same reason Toki Tori 2 went 720, Pikmin 3, W101, MK8, etc.

[PopRocks359]

Mario Kart 8 is confirmed to be 1080p. http://playeressence.com/e3...

So is Zelda Wind Waker HD. http://www.cinemablend.com/...

So is Smash Bros. http://www.eurogamer.net/ar...

[disciple9]

And you took a vague approach and assumed the system wasn't strong enough to do 1080p even though mario kart 8 the most visually impressive Wii U game atm and one of the most visually impressive games period is running at 1080p 60fps. By that approach ps4 and xbox one don't have enough juice to do the same as their games all ran at 1080p 30fps. They used one core basically, and only 20% of the consoles resources and with that they ran the game on two screens, done effects that they couldn't do on PS3 and Xbox 360, had very impressive visuals for a launch title and none of it was really optimised and despite only running in 720p(by choice) they still had a solid 60fps. That to me is very promising. The console may not be as powerful as xbox one or ps4 but it's definitely no slouch

[Qrphe]

MK8 hasn't been confirmed 1080p at all. The screenshots Nintendo released in fact show a build running in something much lower than 1080p.

@PopRocks

I fail to see how that's a source of anything as far as MK8's resolution. The other two are 1080p however.

[RFornillos4]

@Qrphe, i believe you're not getting disciple9's point. it's not that they didn't have the extra sauce for 1080p, in fact the console is capable of that as pointed out by PopRocks (confirmed games to be 1080p) -- since they noticed that rendering in 1080p for their game didn't look any different when rendered in 720p, they decided to use the extra resources for other effects.

and to quote Shin'en's statement: "So all in all ‘Nano Assault Neo’ only used a fraction of the currently available resources on Wii U and looks and plays quite nice. And for the future, don’t forget that in many consoles, early in their life cycle, not all resources were already useable or accessible via the SDK." -- the fact is, they didn't even use all the available resources of the console.

looking at Wii U's games now, it's comparable and at times better than newer PS3/360 titles (recent releases). and this is still early into Wii U's cycle. going back to the games released on PS3/360 during their early cycles, games didn't look as beautiful, yet late into the cycle we get games like Halo 4 and The Last of Us, which are superb.

so as Shin'en said: "So we are sure the best is yet to come for Wii U."

[starfox79]

Devs are aloud to choose weather a certain game needs it ?? they basically say with half the edram in wiiu that we know of 16MB u can get 1080p native,so wiiu has 32MB and in that 30% unknown there is said to be another 32MB/64MB ?? also Miyamoto said they might make pikimin3 4k compatible could answer that rumour of lots more edram,if 16MB gets you 1080p i'm thinking 64MB gets you 4k support it's easy maths.

[SilentNegotiator]

@Poprocks

Your first source offers neither quote from Nintendo, nor evidence. That's why you're using lesser known sites; because they're getting their "facts" from sites like WiiUDaily and NintendoEverything.

Of course Zelda Wind Waker HD runs in 1080p; it's a 2 generation old game that uses cel shading. It would be beyond pathetic if it wasn't.

Smash Brothers is the only 8th gen game on that list that is confirmed 1080p.

Don't let sites like GamingBolt fool you with redirected lies from sites like WiiUDaily. Remember when ZombiU was supposed to be 1080p?

[lilbroRx]

That is false. They had NAN running at 1080 60FPS. There are still videos of it.

They stated clearly that the reason they made it 720p is because it actually look better than it does at 1080p. They were able to ad post processing effects that they couldn't do at 1080p 60 FPS.

Get your facts straight.

[TruthbeTold]

Another thing to take into account about Nano Assault Neo beside the fact that they purposely went for 720p, is that they were not trying to push the hardware at all. They stated in the earlier interview that Nano Assault Neo was a test run of sorts, so that they could get a great little game out on the system, and learn what it's capable of. They did, and plan to go further with their future games.

Are people really trying to make the argument that because NAN is 720p, that these guys couldn't do it, and are lying? That's offensive.

[herbs]

Starfox79 don't be silly :{ Miyamoto said a game like Pikmen could benefit from 4K resolution enabling the player to see more of the environment etc. I absolutely can't stand it when fanboys like yourself twist words or facts to your own fanboy logic agenda. Stop spreading your fanboy delusions Foolfox your making an ass of yourself clogging the message boards and giving false hope to other delusional fanboys like yourself.

[Stroke666]

@herbs...jumping to 4k? I believe the debate was a bout 1080p vs the 720p they chose to use. Yes miyamoto said a game like pikimin would benefit from 4k as far as sesing more of the environments however in 1080p its still going to be a sight to behold

[Qrphe]

This is confirmation that the E3 MK8 demo was running at a much lower resolution than Smash. Both screenshots are provided by Nintendo.

http://s15.postimg.org/l13g...

[herbs]

Stroke666 read the comments before posting or are you illiterate? Can you not comprehend that I was pointing out someone else's stupidity? Notice how the first sentence is replying to someone else. READ and COMPREHEND before posting.

[mrbojingles]

WOW They only used ONE CPU Core on Nano Assault Neo. That game is super pretty.

[falcon97]

herbs: he said compatible ?? read this punk...

http://mynintendonews.com/2...

please stop talking rubbish youve been scarred by all the fake twisted articles on here,now your officially delusional because Miyamoto said compatible,the author says it might benefit ????

[mrbojingles]

Calm down you're taking this stuff way too seriously. God forbid people on the web have differing opinions than you.

I don't know if you think I was being sarcastic or what, I wasn't. What's wrong with being impressed by Shin'en's developing skills on a platform, much less a good game like Nano Assault?

[MNGamer-N]

Can we quit whining about ram now and enjoy next gen games please? Thanks.

[ChickeyCantor]

If people stopped talking about power then maybe. Maybe then developers wouldn't have the need to explain their platform.

[andrewer]

wow, 5 disagrees tell everything. gamers, what is more important to you?

[PopRocks359]

SSpecs are great for arguing facts, such as PS4 being the strongest and therefor most graphically capable platform of generation eight. However in the end, the PC will gain parts in a year or so that flatten that console; it's just how the market has worked for decades.

And yet despite that people are very excited for the new consoles despite not necessarily being on par with PC tech. Why? Games. Games, games and more games. That's all it boils down to in the end. Subjectivity is the word I would use.

Love Killzone and Ratchet? PS4 > PC.

Love Mario and Zelda? Wii U > PS4.

Love Halo and Killer Instinct? XB1 > Wii U.

And I'm sure you could make an argument for PC, but I don't really follow PC games so I don't have one for that lol.

tl;dr Games will typically decide your favorite console, not its specs. The ones who SHOULD be concerned about specs are PC gamers since specs are very important for running games on the platform. With consoles, most games that are developed are tailored for it so you need not worry about such things.

[zebramocha]

@mngamer the ps4 and bone 7BG to 5GB for games code,the wiiu only has 1GB for games.

@sidar have you seen digital foundry shadow of the colossus ps2 vs ps3 ? The ps3 has better frame rate,if the ps2 had the ps3 power then that game would've looked and play better.

[ChickeyCantor]

What is your point? What does that have to do with anything I said?

[zebramocha]

I was going by the first part of your comment about power,you make sound like it's irrelevant,my point being if the game is pushing something to the extreme then it does matter.

@pop PC's are fragmented in power so there is not point trying max out 780 when most don't have that or a balance configuration.

[starfox79]

WiiU has Havok nextgen built into devkits with compression x10,in other words 1GB is now 10GB,yes ps4 and xbox could also use it but what games would ever need 70GB or 50GB ? i'll tell u none a game bigger than say 10GB isnt even possible with the time and resourses you get even on a AAA game so RAM isn't a bottleneck sorry try again...

Plus if WiiU uses 1.5GB in the future that would be 15GB with compression...

Also Sony themselves said ps4 isn't much more powerful than ps3,Sony's words.....?

Also X is open world everything you see is realtime and Killzone was just a fps not in an open word and X still looked technically better,also X is doing lots more open world,mech vehicles,land,air,water,city&# 39;s,weather cycles even rainbows,ect Killzone does none of these things sorry....

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

[ziratul]

Wii U is more powerfull than XBOX 360 and PS3 when used properly, but problem is that Modern engines like Unreal 4 are focused on even stronger hardware PS4 and XBOX one have. I am Wii U/PC user and I hope those two will satisfy my gaming needs just fine.

[Catnip]

I'm Wii U/PC as well, and other than missing a few Sony exclusives, I think I'll be all set this generation!

[andrewer]

PC/Nintendo always worked for me, it's the perfect combination IMO. When PC has the power and tons of games, Wii U has the exclusives that I really want to play.

[disciple9]

I have to agree, even the best looking game on Xbox One, Titanfall is coming to PC and that was the only thing swaying me to buy that console. When you don't bother with Sony or Microsoft and have a PC you only miss out on a few good games and most times they are not really system sellers in my opinion. But with Nintendo you could miss out on loads of great games that you can only get on a Nintendo system. Hence why the industry is pushing for them to go third party so much, cos they want Nintendo games but don't want a Nintendo console. Foolish if you ask me cos like with all things in life, you can't have it all

[zeroskie]

Even if that's true, you're comparing a next gen console with 2 last gen consoles.

[jcnba28]

If they have no problem optimizing UE4 for mobile, I'm sure they can do it for Wii U.

[ABizzel1]

It's not the same engine.

UE4 mobile is not UE4 used on PC and consoles, the same with Frostbite Go.

[Dgander]

ABizzel1 The PS4 UE4 demo didnt look as good as the PC demo so my guess is no console version is the same as the PC version.

[EliteGameKnight]

So the Wii U is powerful then? Nano Assault Neo is a very attractive game, and to say that it uses only a fraction of the Wii U's resources is excellent news. I hope this puts to rest that foolish rumor that the system is only as capable as current gen systems.

[Angeljuice]

@EliteGameKnight

I somehow doubt that.

But it may prompt the questions:

If it is so easy to program for, why do the games take so long to surface?

If they are barely touching the power of the system, why are they not pushing the hardware harder?

Edit: Sorry, just the way my cynical mind works.

[EliteGameKnight]

I fear that the slow announcments of games may stem from the low point in Wii U sales that have plagued the system for the past few months. It may also be caused by the release of poorly made ports from a number of developers hoping to make some fast money off of the system's initial release.

Quality game creation is a slow process and if there is rumor and conjecture surrounding the system, saddly some may opt out of creating games for it.

On the bright side however, more support may come due to the apparent success of Pikmin 3 in Japan. Since its release two days ago, The Wii U is above PS3 and X360 in sales. If those sales translate over to the North American and European markets, then sales will hopefully be back on track, and support will also return.

[ChickeyCantor]

"If it is so easy to program for, why do the games take so long to surface?
"

When people say it's easy to develop for console X they mean it's easy to interface with the hardware to perform certain features. Thus programing for said console is easy.

This however has NOTHING to do with the complexity of crafting your games and the direction you're heading into. Gamelogic and Art assets need time.

New games usually build on modules from other other projects. Such as A.I. components. This saves tremendous time. But specific game mechanics most of the time need to be written from either ground up or in combination with existing code. Standard game assets are mostly reused, specific art assets is build from the ground up.
Starting from scratch takes way more time. Either Way you need to write code and create assets.

The complexity of the project is determined by the ambitions of the developers/designers. WiiUs api takes away most of the low level programming and gives developers a high level interface. This way developers can focus more on creating games and its content. Games simply take time to make, Nintendo only gave them some leverage so that they get their project off the ground faster. After that developers need to do all the complex stuff that makes the game.

[bobacdigital]

Look at how many ported games ran on the Wii U without much of an issue without an immense amount of optimization... Some of them actually had PC Textures also like Need for Speed and Trine...

The games that ported over to the Wii U from the 360 and PS3 were late gen releases.. It took those consoles almost to the end of their lifespan to be able to produce that kind visual fidelity.. The Wii U is running all those ports on roughly 1.2ghz and at less than half the wattage (33w peak output so far).. It is also doing it without much optimization to its tools to build software.. PS3 and XBOX had the benefit of the tools being refined over 5 to 6 years.. You couldnt even IMAGINE The Last of Us on a PS3 until what 6 years later? It took multiple uncharted games to get there.

Also lets not forget it is also mirroring it to the tablet as well in a separate resolution. COD Blackops 2 can run split screen on the tablet and television with each player doing their own thing...

The Wii U has power .. it has shown it by running most prior gen games with little optimization... Once we see a game actually built FROM the ground up on the Wii U a year or so from now we will all start to see what it can do ...

Nano Assault and Pikmin are a good indication of what it can do now .. but after Smash Bros and Mario Kart we will see what it truly can do.

[Ju]

^^ You are probably right. But (!) the problem with that is, we have played those games already. The tablet doesn't really help because it prevents the WiiU to go beyond PS360. Need for Speed was optimized to reach the frame rate of current gens. And while there might be more in the box, it was/is the wrong time for Nintendo. By the time they will probably utilize the potential, we are already in the next gen which again will leave the WiiU behind. A little bit cheaper and it will have a market for the typical Nintendo games, but I doubt it will take over the mainstream or even be able to compete. I'd hope it would drop in price eventually (<$200) just to consider it a second machine. I have no need for "just" another console - that slot is already filled.

[ABizzel1]

Ok I ignored the first person, but Nano Assault Neo has a great art style, but it's not a technically demanding game as evident by the amount of Wii U resources used.

That being said the Wii U is the more powerful overall compared to the PS360, however, the PS360 has several advantages over the Wii U (CPU, naturally good RAM speeds by comparison, Blu Ray / DVD?). The problem I personally have with the Wii U is that the Wii U is 6 years older than the PS3 and 7 years older than the Xbox 360, and it doesn't flat out out perform them.

A Quad-Core CPU, 4GB of RAM, and any GPU 6550d < would have been all Nintendo needed to flat out beat the PS360 hardware wise and instantly show the difference in performance, as well as provide the console with enough power that developers could still port PS4 and X1 games down to the Wii U. But instead Nintendo tried to pull another Wii and make an anemic console compared to the hardware available to them (even low end parts were good at the time).

I've enjoyed my time with the Wii U, and it's more than likely my second next-gen console purchase, but Nintendo failed when it came to giving the Wii U the horsepower it should have had for evolution's and competition's sake. A lesson learned hopefully.

[TruthbeTold]

If you take into account the separate ARM processor that runs the operating system, and leaves the 3 CPU cores for pure gaming, the Wii U, for all intents and purposes is a quad core.

Also, considering the small amount of RAM the last gen systems had, AND had a large portion of dedicated to the OS, the fact that many of the tougher memory intensive tasks are handled by the eDRAM, then the 1 gig dedicated to gaming, and 2 gigs overall of the Wii U is quite a jump.

Plain and simple, specs wise, PS4 and XBox One have more RAM, and more powerful GPU's. CPU-wise though, all things considered (cores dedicated to this and that, much longer pipelines, and lower core per core performance), the Wii U can hang, and overall, the Wii U is behind, but is a plenty capable machine.

[ABizzel1]

"If you take into account the separate ARM processor that runs the operating system, and leaves the 3 CPU cores for pure gaming, the Wii U, for all intents and purposes is a quad core."

From what the developer said the Wii U is a Tri-Core CPU, that functions more like a single core CPU that acts with tri-threading but weaker threads.

The ARM processor running the OS is great for CPU usage, but that doesn't help with the fact that the CPU isn't good to begin with.

"Also, considering the small amount of RAM the last gen systems had, AND had a large portion of dedicated to the OS, the fact that many of the tougher memory intensive tasks are handled by the eDRAM, then the 1 gig dedicated to gaming, and 2 gigs overall of the Wii U is quite a jump."

The 360 only had 10% of RAM dedicated to the OS while playing games, the PS3; however, has the same problems the Wii U has with split RAM . The eDRAM is beneficial, but it doesn't help with the fact that the RAM isn't large enough for the evolving demand of games (see the trend).

When bringing a game from PC down to PS360 there are HUGE compromises to where generally 2 teams have to build 2 versions of the same game. Those same compromises are going to have to be made for the Wii U, the problem for Nintendo right now is that the Wii U hasn't sold enough units to warrant the work it takes to port it down to the Wii U, while PS360 have about 80 million users each, and PS4 and X1 can receive a direct port since they're powerful enough. That's why developers are saying the Wii U will end up being a Nintendo 1st party only platform if they don't get sales up, and they don't drop publishing fees (which they've just done).

"Plain and simple, specs wise, PS4 and XBox One have more RAM, and more powerful GPU's. CPU-wise though, all things considered (cores dedicated to this and that, much longer pipelines, and lower core per core performance), the Wii U can hang, and overall, the Wii U is behind, but is a plenty capable machine."

I agree, the CPU realm of all 3 consoles are lackluster IMO. The 8 cores for the PS4 and X1 are their saving grace, but the jump in CPU performance from the last gen isn't comparable to the RAM and GPU outside of OOE.

Overall the Wii U is more powerful than the PS360, but none of the 3 are powerful enough to continue into the next-gen. Lifetime sales are the only thing that will keep the support coming.

[ibroman]

Have you seen the X trailer? It looks better than any ps360 game i've played by a longshot.

[PigPen]

I believe the best is yet to come for Wii U, and I'm looking forward to it.

[ABizzel1]

For the first time I agree with you.

[HalfNerdHalfAmazing]

The proof is in the pudding just look at Mario Kart 8 the game is running at 1080p 60 fps The PS360 is not capable of that.

[Campy da Camper]

New mariokart looks flipping fantastic. Can't wait for that game.

[ABizzel1]

@HalfNerd

Lies.

Virtua Tennis, Sony's NBA games, Super Stardust HD original, Pixel Junk Racers, Wipeout HD, Gran Turismo HD Concept, and Gran Turismo 5 Prologue are all 1080p @ 60fps

Super Stardust HD 3D 720p @ 120fps (60fps per eye for 3D)

[herbs]

None of the games you mentioned are actually rendered in 1080p most are sub 720p or some variable resolution and then upscaled, in fact many PS360 games are rendered at a lower resolution than even 720p and upscaled. Pikmen 3 is also rendered at 720p and upscaled as well however future Wii U games will be fully rendered in 1080p, PS360 are not capable of this.

[awesomeabe1998]

Correct me if I am wrong but this article means that a correctly used Wii U's graphics are equal to the graphics of a PS4 or XBOX One.

[TruthbeTold]

I would say sort of/kind of/but not really. What it means is that when used properly, the eDRAM covers pretty much all of the things that make putting out a 1080p game difficult to do. So with the CPU cache, eDRAM, shader efficiency, and all 3 CPU cores being used properly, we'll see some amazing looking games, that greatly surpass what PS360 are capable of.

However, PS4 and XBox one have enough power that the Wii U probably sits somewhere just beyond halfway between PS3 and PS4 as far as what we see on screen goes.

I guess bottom line, we'll see some amazing looking games on Wii U where sensible people will say, 'Hey, that could be a Xbox one game it looks so good. But as far as the PS4 and Xbox one exclusives, where their top developers squeeze all that they can out of those machines, you'll see far more effects being used at once, perhaps better physics at times, and more intensive use of advanced lighting techniques.

In terms of PC then maybe something like:

Low settings = PS360
Medium settings = Wii U
High settings = Xbox one
Ultra settings = PS4

At least for now. Within a year or so of course when the most modern and expensive GPU's on the market start being taken advantage of, PC will again be on a level untouched. In terms of resolution, it already is.

[ChickeyCantor]

No,

Ps4 and xbox one have more computing power. No one can dispute that and if they do, they are ignorant as hell.

This means that WiiU has a ram unit that aids in storing and retrieving data fast. Which allows for all kinds of techniques. This however does not mean it will reach the visual complexity of the PS4/X1.

But that's ok! Because I'd take awesome art-directions over brownish realistic wannabe games any days. ( not saying Ps4/X1 games will be all about boring photorealistic art )

Mario Kart 8 looks great. So no doubt WiiU games will look great.

Edit:
Ah I keep posting too late before someone else already replies.

[Firan]

Wii U should be able to produce next gen graphics but due to RAM differences the scale between Wii U and PS4/X1 games should be very different.

For example PS4/XB1 can produce next-gen graphics for huge open world games while Wii U should be able produce same visuals for smaller games like Mario Kart or Smash Bros.

[ABizzel1]

@awesomeabe

You're absolutely wrong.

The Wii U will have good graphics, and artstyle and trickery are going to help it hold it's own. The difference is the PS4 and X1 don't need trickery to make their games look good.

By trickery I mean, PS4 and X1 games will have better draw distances, real time effects, ray tracing (as in Killzone), particle effects (look at Killer Instinct and watch Jago's fireball), better physics, tessellation, larger maps, more NPC's, dynamic AI, dynamic weather, etc... These are all things the Wii U will not be able to handle to the same degree as the PS4 and X1, or for that matter mash into one game.

That's not to say the Wii U will have bad graphics. Take the best graphics from the PS360 and the Wii U is more than capable of running those games from a GPU standpoint (CPU is a different story). Games with beautiful graphics like The Last of Us, God of War, Halo 4, Gears of War 3, Crysis 3, Killzone 3, Rage, Alan Wake, Heavy Rain, Beyond 2 Souls, and more are all possible graphically on the Wii U and to be honest that fine for most Nintendo fans.

[awesomeabe1998]

When people know that the Wii U is a 1080p console, and that the PS4 and XBOX 1 are also 1080p consoles, they will not pay attention to slight advantages in edges and other things like that. Most people dont understand eDRAM and such things so they would just think that its the same so it wont make a difference.

[ziratul]

We will find out how Powerful Wii U actually IS when we compare Watch Dogs to PS360 and PS4one

[TruthbeTold]

Assuming that Ubisoft has made it a point to optimize the game graphically for each title. Not so sure about that. I hope so though, because it would make for a great comparison.

[PygmelionHunter]

Are you for real? Ubisoft doesn't give a crap about optimizing for Wii U, if they did, Assassin's Creed 3 would have performed better on it.

[ziratul]

I believe they have optimized Witch Dogs, they had plenty of time. Why do you think that they have optimized Watch Dogs for PS4? At least it will give us descent overview about Wii U power.

[PigPen]

You won't find out that way. The Xbox One, Playstation 4 and Wii U versions will be the same. Don't forget we're talking Ubisoft here. You find out by matching up first party games. That means you will have to wait till 2014 to actually get that chance. But you could cheat, and going to tell you how. Without the actual games on store shelves, compare trailers. Compare "Killzone with Monolith Soft X". Although they are just trailers, tell me that X doesn't hold its weight. Now that might not be the case down the line as developers can squeeze more power out of the consoles.

[DivineAssault]

who cares? Bring the games on plz.. Havent seen much for wii u in a very long time

[PigPen]

DivineAssault aka Mr. Wise

That's the honest truth, no matter what company you choose to follow. I can't believe you actually got disagrees.

[herbs]

Nice to see so many insightful comments on the message boards for a change no one is on a dastardly troll quest, this is so refreshing why can't N4Gs audience always be like this. Hopefully I didn't speak to soon.

[TruthbeTold]

Definitely. I think that some people were worried that uninformed people may think that the Wii U has equal capability as the other two consoles. But as we find the happy median between those two and the HD twins of last gen, pretty much everyone is content, so things are becoming more peaceful. In fact, for many here, they plan to buy a Wii U along with their PS4 and or XBox one, not unlike last gen when Wii was quite the companion console.

[BosSSyndrome]

Wow. I had no idea what eDRAM was before now. Not much of a tech-learned fella. Thanks. :)

[SonyPS4]

Wii U hardware is better and more capable than what people give credit for.

[herbs]

One thing Nintendo deserves credit for is being able to do more with less. They have a history of using some antiquated parts in most of there consoles compared to the competition and often they are percieved to be able to match or exceed performance through some clever ingenuity or engineering.

[unknownbystander]

In my honest opinion it's not really the hardware that is most important (don't get me wrong it does matter but to a certain point). It's how you use it. My analogy : If you play the strongest character in a fighter without knowing his or her moves vs someone who picks the weakest fighter and knows their moves.............well you would most likely be beaten by the weaker fighter because his controller knows the nooks and crannies of the fighter. It's like choosing a very powerful sports car without knowing how to drive. (Probably a bad analogy). Hope you get my point though. What I'm trying to get across is that you can't create a good game if you haven't invested enough time to learn about the console's architecture.

[marloc_x]

I feel all will have great games regardless of what is printed on the cardboard box it came in.. Wii U will certainly hold it's own.