Answering A Fanboy Request/Question

Correct me if I'm wrong but, Microsoft is getting their Public Relations behind handed to them aren't they? They have been for quite a while too, so it shouldn't be a surprise when anyone does it.

From the very reveal of the Xbox One, right up to this very second; anything Microsoft says has either been damning, confusing, arrogant, or untrustworthy. Knowing this, the defenders still ask the same thing: "Why don't I see ____ ragging on Sony?" Where blank represents a person or group and where the question is asked immediately after said defender provides a piece of information they believe to be an indictment against Sony or PS4 fans in some way.

Take the recent Xbox One petitions. It's undeniable that PS4 fans have trolled the petitions once they found out about them. Of course the Xbox One defenders will label everyone who dislikes the Xbox One as a PS4 fanboy that obviously participated in the trolling from the get go regardless of the truth. There is at least 1 petition, possibly more though that's not provable, that was begun by an Xbox One fan who was ignorant of the depth of what Microsoft were trying to do to consumers/gamers. To deny that is to be naive.

Discless gaming and game sharing never required DRM, but for Microsoft they are a package deal. Game Sharing was always just a glorified demo sharing service, and that aspect of it was always hidden by Microsoft from the general populace because no one would be excited to share demos. These are facts now, and hindsight is 20/20 so you can't fault some of the shills for being excited about services they never had complete knowledge about. You also can't deny that there were/are people still excited about the restrictions, or at least willing to accept them due to their misinformation.

So why aren't anyone ragging on Sony? Can you find a reason for them to rag on Sony not rooted in the Past? Any time a defender comes to the Xbox One's defense, the same tired arguments about the PS3 are made in a lame attempt to somehow link them to the PS4. Sorry folks, but PS4 and Xbox One are a new ball game. Past games don't apply.

Right now the PS4 holds pretty much every advantage necessary in the Public Eye. It has a tech advantage over the Xbox One, it has a price advantage over the Xbox One, it has transparent executives who appear far more approachable and down to earth than Xbox One executives, its designer has deep roots in gaming, I mean I can just keep going on and on. Some will try to say that the Xbox One has better games, but that's subjective and not entirely accurate for either side as neither side has shown all the games they have available yet.

What is there to rag on the PS4 about? Is there something legitimate to find wrong about the PS4 that would warrant the same kind of negative press that the Xbox One is getting? Are PS4 devs/execs purposely hiding things like Xbox One devs/execs are? What? I genuinely would like to know.

Everyone here is guilty of their own generalisations and pre-conceptions, no one is innocent. But in truth, when you see someone defending restrictions, dismissing concerns, and taking the words of anonymous "developers" as fact, how can you honestly say that you don't find people like that to be, at the very least, either completely naive or complete trolls/shills?

Personally, a game system that is $100 cheaper, comes loaded with optional features that aren't forced on you, has earned the praise of countless game developers, has executives that are willing to be totally transparent and engage the gaming community, and has a massive focus on games and gamers; will always trump a system that can't work without an add-on with a checkered past of questionable quality, services that require pre-existing 3rd party hardware, free apps locked behind ads and a paywall, executives who are either arrogant or have no background in gaming, and hype talk that's just wrong or comes from an anonymous source that will readily admit to being unwilling to back up their claims any day of the week.

So I ask you, fanboy that has a grudge and no problem defending deception, circumvention, evasion, and at one point restriction; do you have a reason for me or any gamer that actually enjoys having a GAMING console focused primarily on gaming first and foremost to hate on Sony or the PS4?

Flame on below.

[HammadTheBeast]

Exactly, people cry about there being lots of Sony supporters on this site, but don't realize it's because every argument can be countered.

[Bimkoblerutso]

What's sad is that this obligation certain groups seem to have to participate in "console wars" (on both sides, mind you) trivializes all the BS Microsoft is trying to pull.

There are things Microsoft was trying to do that made even me, a proud owner of both previous Microsoft systems, angry and confused. And yet, every time I express my discontent, I am accused of being a fanboy...as if Microsoft WASN'T trying to take a huge dump on my consumer rights, and I'm just being unreasonable.

[nukeitall]

Well, let me counter an Sony loyalist rant that says:

"Sorry folks, but PS4 and Xbox One are a new ball game. Past games don't apply."

while in the same blog says:

"will always trump a system [Xbox 360] that can't work without an add-on with a checkered past of questionable quality,"

So it is fine to ignore the past for PS3/PS2 and forgive and forget all the crap (like mismanagement of PSN leading to hacking, and optical drive lawsuit during PS2), but focus on it on MS when they didn't hide behind a lawsuit that ended after the generation was over and instead provided unprecedented 3-years of warranty, offer refunds for repaired consoles and paid for shipping.

That is ok, I'm used to the double standards by the fangirls here and the bias this site has. After all I witnessed one bubble fangirl profiles having massive bubbles shortly after and comments/articles being censored with double standards. Yup mod friends of fangirls.

... I won't name call you, because it is against policy, but you KNOW WHO YOU ARE!

[DragonKnight]

"So it is fine to ignore the past for PS3/PS2 and forgive and forget all the crap (like mismanagement of PSN leading to hacking, and optical drive lawsuit during PS2), but focus on it on MS when they didn't hide behind a lawsuit that ended after the generation was over and instead provided unprecedented 3-years of warranty, offer refunds for repaired consoles and paid for shipping."

You know what's great? That you completely got the quote wrong. That system that you seem to think I was talking about, it was actually the Xbox One. The 360 can work completely fine without the Kinect, the Xbox One can't. But hey, why get your facts straight when you can try and make a person look bad.

"That is ok, I'm used to the double standards by the fangirls here and the bias this site has. After all I witnessed one bubble fangirl profiles having massive bubbles shortly after and comments/articles being censored with double standards. Yup mod friends of fangirls."

Such maturity, such insight... not.

"... I won't name call you, because it is against policy, but you KNOW WHO YOU ARE!"

This is a very interesting quote, but for reasons you should be unaware of. Hmmm.

[Bimkoblerutso]

Hypocrisy cannot be used as a logical defense for an argument (not that there even was any). In fact there is a named logical fallacy for it: tu quoque.

The fact remains that Microsoft was attempting to establish policies that were not conducive to consumer rights....so people got angry. Imagine that.

[HammadTheBeast]

Actually the consoles sold in the first two to three years had nothing done about them, in fact, MS refused to admit that it was a design flaw, and made tons of excuses. Their customer support was pretty much useless, asking you to unplug it and plug it back in (stuff like that), and even when they magically did accept the repair, they'd send you back someone else's refurbished console. This is all just from my first hand experience.

The only reason they changed was because 55% flaw rate was a pretty bad statistic to have.

[Outside_ofthe_Box]

***"I'm used to the double standards by the fangirls here and the bias this site has."***

Are you trying to imply that you aren't guilty of double standards and are not bias at all?

[Outside_ofthe_Box]

lol @ you hitting the disagree, you know it's true ;)

[TheRealHeisenberg]

@ nukeitall

Don't waste your time trying to reason with "them". It will end up being nothing more than an exercise in frustration.

Just agree that MS is the devil and all will be ok...my bad...I meant M$.

[The_Klank]

If it was opposite day I could argue a couple things that I didn't like about Ps4 like for example:
Psn+ required for online play .or.
No more sharing games between Ps4s for separate accounts.
I'm sure there is more if I really had to think about it but tbh that's all I got right now.

Now to continue this opposite day thing I could think of a couple things I like about Xbox1 for example: (side note: I've sat here for 5 minutes trying to think of something)
It has a HDMI in for the first time on a console which could have some interesting uses in the future.or.
Multitasking is a big feature of the XB1 which could potentially make life a little easier.

In reality if I was to sit here and do what I just done up there I wouldn't have to struggle to come up with answers.

[The_Klank]

I'd love to know what people disagree with.

[jessupj]

I didn't disagree with you, but I can hazard a guess why other people are.

Sure, the whole 'online requires PSN+' is a little bit of a drag, but it's a lot easier to swallow when you're getting so many free games with it. I've been a member for 16 months and I have 112 games on my hard drive. It's insane. There's also a lot of other online features that aren't behind a paywall. So compared to XBL it's still light years ahead when regarding value.

The sharing thing also a drag, but it honestly was a privileged, not a right. To be honest, I'm surprised it was ever implemented in the first place. Obviously Sony didn't intend for people to use it to share games amount their friends. More likely it was there in case your PS3 died and you needed a new one.

But there's a very minor things when compared to the fact MS tried to royally f*ck gamers with their restrictions.

[zerocrossing]

Going on what we know right now, I've honesly tride to pick fault with the PS4 but really what's not to like?

The Xbone on the other hand, well simply put all the rediculous draconian DRM restrictions just were'nt nesecary to allow for those nice little features MS removed when they dropped their original DRM policies, and to whoever is still whining about loosing family sharing, look it was just a timed demo of a game that you family or friends owns so it's not like you could keep on sharing that game with a friend for as long as you wanted like you can with an atual disc.

[AtomicGerbil]

As always I will wait for user feedback instead of buying any console day one, but weighing up the known pros and cons PS4 is clearly my preferred option at this stage.

[Geezus]

its not hating on the console it more or less hating those "fanboys" who spew nonsense for example using your own example the game sharing being a demo thing which was a complete rumor that originated from a paste bin made by who knows who saying they were working on the xbox which was debunked by an xbox executive saying they were not demos ( not that it matters anymore since the feature is gone" yet people still run with it like it the truth just like any rumor that paints the one in a negative light. People find anything to nitpick on the xbox while giving the Ps4 a free pass for example when sony announced their digital game sharing feature a couple days ago sony users were like "zomg take that xbox pwnd" "shut up and take my money" "xbox took gamesharing sony gave it back" without anyone pointing out the fact that is is the exact same feature that the ps3/360 have been doing this entire gen and that it will all be also be available on the Xbox one and is nothing revutionary. But
the absolute worst thing which i seen is those fools who say why would anyone buy a xbox when you can get a ps4 only an idiot would buy an xbox because everybody want a ps4 right? and everybody who doesnt is inferior, really!? Some ps4 users just irrationally hate on the xbox any game and anybody that affiliates with it (bashing insomniac for sunset overdrive exclusive and not being loyal to PS but praising them for making a new ratchet and clank or bashing kojima for saying he likes what the xbox offers and the possibilities with kinect... this is what drives those of us who prefer the xbox crazy the irrational hate that become a sort of obsession from those on the other camp and the constant double standards employed by those Ps users ....end rant.

Tl;dr the hypocracy is the worst . nobody hate the console/brand we dislike the self- entitled smug fans who are so close minded they dont even want to admit that a Pc is a better gaming platform cuz they cant handle sony losing at anything.

[zerocrossing]

So the thing about family sharing just being a glorified demo trial was a rumour? Huh, and here I thought it was factual. Well if that is the case then my bad, but honestly I don't think family sharing should have been removed anyway, it could have been easily implemented with digitally downgraded games or made available with games installed on the hardrive.

[DragonKnight]

I read up on the whole game sharing thing and the two "execs" you're talking about made some tweets saying that the pastebin rumour wasn't true, but also higher up execs played a game of evasion. So really, we have to think about it this way.

Would only Microsoft be allowing their first party games to use a game sharing plan that let 10 people play a full game for however long they wanted while only one person bought it, or would 3rd party devs be forced to allow that as well.

When we look at it through the business lens of profit, Microsoft's game sharing plan seems absolutely ludicrous and you'd be hard pressed to believe that publishers like EA or Activision would allow 9 people to play their games for free, then multiplied by 9 for every person that bought an Xbox One. Something about that game sharing plan wasn't mentioned and stinks of fish. We can table that issue though because Microsoft chose not to be transparent about it and have since removed the feature.

Here's the thing though. Everything you just stated about PS fanboys, applies to the opposite end. Consider also that there A LOT of casuals and former Xbox fanboys who have written off the Xbox One and won't go back.

The Xbox One has a lot of reasons to be hated on, and most of them stem from Microsoft trying to tell people what they like, what they can do, and being completely evasive or secretive about the console. Microsoft are, with the Xbox One, behaving like Nintendo did at the beginning of the Wii U's life.

We are expected to believe in hype and buzz when Microsoft says the cloud is going to make a single Xbox One console have, at the minimum, the power of 3 Xbox One's when all evidence, all facts, say that that's not going to be the case. When devs making Xbox One games start hyping up the cloud and are pressed for answers, they either come up with "dedicated servers" (which doesn't require the kind of cloud computation that MS is hyping) or they employ more secretive talk.

But anyway, no one cares about PC when it comes to consoles, only PC gamers who are insecure and have to write out the lists of parts they have in their rig. PCs will always have a hardware advantage, but obviously console gaming has always been getting more of the industry's focus and thus more of the games. It isn't about Sony, it's about wanting PC gamers to stop bombarding the conversation of any console topic with their specs and feeling superior because they chose to spend stupid amounts of money on graphics.

**EDIT** Sorry, 10 people. I forgot that the original owner doesn't count as one of the 10 people.

[Gimmemorebubblez]

You sir/ ma'am (Sorry it's the Internet) could be an advocate or a lawyer, you construct your side of the argument brilliantly, that it is almost impossible to pick holes in it . Excellent blog, you are gifted at writing. Anyway on topic, the Ps4 is the way to go next-gen as of now, however I think all of us have been sipping the "Sony" Kool-aid, in other words it should have been expected for Sony not to implement DRM. Bare-Bones online play should have remained free. Ps+ is great service no doubt but I feel that we are letting Sony know that it's "Okay" to charge for something that shouldn't be charged for. MS after making billions from a service that should be free then tried to pull DRM over us because they thought that if we were sheepish enough to pay for XBLG than we would be sheepish enough for DRM. What I'm saying is gamers should campaign to make bare-bones PSN free again or atleast ask for a once off payment instead of a yearly payment . We should not let either company take advantage of us. So even though I will sub to PS+,#keeppsnfree because if you give either company an inch, they will take a mile. Sorry I'm on my crapple iphone;(

[DragonKnight]

I am a sir, and thank you.

"in other words it should have been expected for Sony not to implement DRM."

And it would have been had the small bloggers, right up to the big media personalities like Adam Sessler, simply accepted that Sony were straight up honest about their used games/DRM plans since February. At E3 all they did was restate what they had said in their February PS4 reveal, but they wouldn't have had to had people stopped trying to lump Sony and Microsoft together.

As far as online is concerned, Sony is charging for multiplayer but it's a bit different than MS did. For starters, PS+ is required for actual multiplayer, not for online features. So if you're playing a single player game that has online features, you don't need PS+ to access those features. Asynchronous multiplayer (that is, multiplayer where it is a human player vs an A.I. character but still online) doesn't require PS+. Pay and Free MMO's won't require PS+ either, so you won't be double charged for playing a game like FFXIV for example. The requirement is strictly for games with synchronous multiplayer, so a fighting game with ranked matches for example.

As far as we know, based on what Sony has done with PS+ on the PS3 so far, there will be no ads nor is PS+ required to access apps such as Netflix.

Although it does suck that we have to pay for multiplayer on PS4 now, it is a smaller/easier pill to swallow with everything we can do that DOESN'T require PS+ and everything we get with a PS+ subscription.

[matgrowcott]

"When we look at it through the business lens of profit, Microsoft's game sharing plan seems absolutely ludicrous and you'd be hard pressed to believe that publishers like EA or Activision would allow 9 people to play their games for free, then multiplied by 9 for every person that bought an Xbox One."

You've said this, but I'm guessing you're pro-used market?

EA and Activision would rather give access to 10 people per account - one at a time, with an option to buy if someone else is using the spare "space" - than have those same 10 copies bought used.

Buying digital means that publishers get double the amount they would at retail. Having three people buy digital is worth more than having three people buying physical, probably as much as five or six people buying physical.

Setting up a system that allows people to play unlimited, but which you can only access if nobody else is playing it, is incredibly clever. Old games would be dead, digitally, but it'd really push new titles at launch, and it'd push the version that benefits publishers the most.

[DragonKnight]

@mattgrowcott: The difference between used games and family sharing is that a used game is being played only by one person at any time. To extend it, if a used game represents a spot on a server, it's only one spot. Game sharing represents at least 10 people playing one user's game and at least 2 spots on a server at any time because two people can play the same game at the same time. It also represents 10 new spots on a server to be made instead of 1.

That's why it's hard to believe publishers would allow 10 free games as opposed to 1.

[matgrowcott]

"The difference between used games and family sharing is that a used game is being played only by one person at any time. To extend it, if a used game represents a spot on a server, it's only one spot."

I can see where you're coming from, but you need to look a little wider to see why the Family Sharing would work.

Publishers don't want you buying used games. That's been established time and time again, and while there's nothing anybody can do to stop you buying used games, they CAN try and draw you into a system where you want to buy digital (dropping the price isn't an option until brick and mortar stores are done away with).

Sony will do it with Gaikai subscriptions, I think. Microsoft were going to do it with Family Sharing.

If 10 people went out and bought a single copy of a used game each, the publisher would get nothing out of it. Maybe one of them will buy DLC. Those people are definitely not going to buy your game new. Ever. It's done.

On the other hand, by allowing up to ten friends to play a single person's copy of a game - perfectly possible with physical copies, by the way - and limiting it to two people at a time, they're creating a situation where they can actively say "do you want to buy this game?"

Some people will say no the first time. They'll wait it out. When they realize they're fighting with two or three other people over a single spot and they've waited days to buy, maybe they'll cave and buy a digital copy.

And here's the thing: that digital copy is worth two physical copies. If three of ten people buy a game they wouldn't have done otherwise, that's six copies of a game sold.

And they're STILL not giving anything to the used or rental market. They're not even feeding stores. They're getting more money, they're widely increasing their userbase.

The Sony downtime proved people were willing to spend money if they had things for free first. That's where the IGC game from. Microsoft were taking that idea and running with it.

And that's presuming Microsoft didn't have Netflix-style per-publisher deals in place (which I'm guessing they probably did) and that we'd have had access to full games, multiplayer, achievements, anything. There were a million ways of making this work within the constraints of what we were expressly told.

[rainslacker]

I think you highlight one problem in your post, although indirectly. It's the amount of misinformation out there. Game sharing for instance. People see a post, take it as gospel, then roll with it. Other people continue to parrot it as fact without the whole truth, or with no truth, and eventually it becomes truth. Very few people actually take the time to research any of this information. It's odd they would do this when, if they want to mention it, it seems like it would be important to them, so knowing the facts would be beneficial. The few that actually do seem to try and research this stuff, and put the facts out there get ignored, because it means removing a console war talking point.

This is of course true with all sides, not just one over-zealous group of fans, but it is a problem and only leads to the constant back and forth of "my system is better than yours".

Right now the PS4 has definite perceptible advantages over the X1, and a lot of that has to do with the way MS has introduced and marketed the console to date.

I personally don't hate the X1. I just really dislike the way MS has tried to push off a DRM riddled console onto the public. Not in the interest of furthering the industry, thus furthering innovation and profits, but seemingly in the interest of furthering their own interest. I know all companies seek to further their own interest and profits, but it should never be done at the expense of what the consumer wants.

With the DRM/online reversal, the X1 is much more attractive to me. I'm still not too keen on the Kinect, but it wouldn't keep me from buying the system. However, due to the way MS has started the next gen, I'm going to wait on it. I don't believe in rewarding a company that doesn't even try to appear to have the consumer's best interest in mind.

[DragonKnight]

I think the most damning aspect of what MS did was when publishers like EA tried to distance themselves from MS by saying "we didn't ask them to do that."

Even if that is almost certainly a lie, it really hurt Microsoft to not have the support of ANYONE in the public eye. Beyond shills anyway.

[BillytheBarbarian]

Damn man people really hate Microsoft

[zerocrossing]

I don't hate Microsoft, I hate their crappy policies and business practices.

The original Xbox One's DRM policies like forced game installs, 24 hour online check-ins and used game restrictions were a joke and simply had to go.

If Sony had done the same they would have gotten just as much hate for it.

[BillytheBarbarian]

Maybe. I just think it's Sony's turn to run the show this Gen regardless of DRM and all the other stuff.

Beating a dead horse. I'm not buying into nextgen at all. I can wait to watch it all fail.

[stuna1]

Exactly! Although we have those who believe Sony fans pick and choose what to like! If that's the case there wouldn't have been a reason for Sony supporters to start their own petition to insure that the same restrictions didn't come to the PS4.

Microsoft was taking a wait and see approach! In actuality they were trying to strongarm the competition as well as the Industry into going along with their vision offf what they thought gaming should be, but the gamers spoke out!

We as gamers have forgotten the power we hold in the Industry, we can make or break any developer or console maker by being united, but that's also our greatest flaw! We aren't united.

[DragonKnight]

Microsoft brings the hate on themselves. From the start of their Xbox One campaign they showed what their biggest focus is and seem to act like the politicians of the gaming industry. People can smell garbage in everything Microsoft says and does. You get one first impression, and Microsoft squandered theirs. They can turn everything around eventually, the PS3 is proof of that, but right now they're just going to have to take their lumps and, if they were smart, be honest and at the same time very careful of what they say in the future.

[PopRocks359]

Didn't Sony take the brunt of the PR damage back in 2006? I thought it was well established how people were frustrated they weren't focused on gaming, but more about just looking flashy. I remember quotes like "The PS3 is not a game console, it's a computer," and they wound up being seen as the bad guys, even spawning that whole Wii60 thing that fans enjoyed.

I mean, it makes a lot of sense. Microsoft made a lot of Sony's 2006 mistakes and THEN some. Begs the question as to what Microsoft fans were expecting.

[BillytheBarbarian]

It's really going to come down to who gets the one must own game. So many "me too" games people are getting bored. Ooh call of duty with more polygons. That game moves so fast people could care less. It's going to be the same across the board...madden, FIFA, halo, Tekken, NBA 2k, same games with slightly more detail.

Whichever console comes out with Shenmue 3 will get my purchase. Lol

[rainslacker]

I think every system has must have games. Even the X1 has some appealing games, regardless of how much people may hate it or dismiss them as "not really exclusive".

For many though, myself included, they were really turned off by what MS tried to do. It's hard to get over such a negative first impression, and for the time being MS is still doing what they did at the beginning by using misdirection, and coming across as extremely greedy in their approach to the next gen. Maybe it's because people are being more critical of them now, but they definitely are having a problem in how they are talking to the public.

[BillytheBarbarian]

That and just how their presentation seemed to talk down to us gamers. I felt like they were talking to 12 year-old kids that had no clue how to run a basic word processing program.

That was what angered me the most. Sometimes I think they hire people with strong english accents to make their products sound elite whereas it made people even more angry. Reminded me of that english guy at the end of Titanic that you hated but he got to live because he snagged up that kid. I had the same feeling toward Microsoft that day. Hahaha!

[FRAKISTAN]

and the latest example, xbox one and Kller instinct git booed at EVO and ms fans labelled them as PS fanboys

[BillytheBarbarian]

And there it is...dragonknight cracked. Hahaha! Anyone can line up games and knock them down. What's wrong with QTE? Shenmue and God of war rock that stuff and those are epics.