Pach-Attack- How Much is Microsoft Paying Sony?

GT:On this week's Pach-Attack, Michael Pachter looks at how much Sony stands to gain from Blu-Ray implementation in the Xbox One

[Marcello]

Hey Pach forgot to mention a buck for every bluray disc sold for xbox one, that will run into 100`s of millions !!

[blackmagic]

Sony only gets a small fraction of the royalties from the blu-ray standard, they are only one of the nine major electronics firms that founded the Blu-ray standard and they are only one of the eighteen firms making up the Blu-ray Disc Association which continues to develop and collect royalties on the Blu-ray standard and there are dozens of other companies that own and collect royalties from the BDA on the critical patents that the blu-ray standard requires, ironically, Microsoft being one of them for their proprietary VC-1 video codec.

Pach, once again, showing his very limited knowledge.

[kneon]

Out of all the members Sony and Phillips hold the most IP used in bluray so I expect they get more than the others. But it's still not as much as people might think. Besides, Sony and Phillips also are the main owners for the CD and DVD IP so Microsoft has been giving them money all along. Switching to bluray is likely only a small bump up in royalty payments.

Also these kinds of tech royalty deals usually have maximum limits and sliding scales that reduce the per unit royalty after certain targets are met.

[greenlantern2814]

but they do get some of every blu-ray sold so he has a point, may not be accurate on the numbers but i am sure sony is happy to have more people buying blu-rays. of course this is assuming people that are buying the xb1 dont already have blu-ray players. which they most likely do. so his speculation could be very pointless

[AmazingBrian]

@greenlantern2814 blu-rays aren't just movies dude.... the games will be on blu-ray format too

[magicted]

Even though Sony is on the Blu-ray board the own most of the patents for Blu-ray disc and Panasonic own most of the patents for Blu-ray players. Both those companies do get a little more in royalties then the rest.

[pixelsword]

Dear xbone fans:

Thanks for the cash to fund our "gamez".

Signed,

PS4 fans

j/k

[pixelsword]

Oh, I forgot:

:)

(click to zoom in)

http://whitsblog.com/wp-con...

[ALLWRONG]

I love watching people pretend to know what they're talking about.

[Minute Man 721]

No one used VC - 1 anymore, thou it gives a softer 3D'ish look to films

[blackmagic]

@Hollywoodland
I didn't say sony didn't get any money from blu-ray nor did I say that microsoft makes more money, I said sony is not the sole beneficiary and only recieves a fraction of the total royalty paid as a result.

SMPTE is a standards association. MPEG LA, an intellectual property rights management firm, is the entity which collects on behalf of the codec patent holders.

page 8
2% or $0.02 per title
http://www.mpegla.com/main/...

@minute man 721
There are 8 blu-ray releases using VC-1 this week (July 9th).
http://www.blu-ray.com/movi...
http://www.blu-ray.com/movi...
http://www.blu-ray.com/movi...
http://www.blu-ray.com/movi...
http://www.blu-ray.com/movi...
http://www.blu-ray.com/movi...
http://www.blu-ray.com/movi...
http://www.blu-ray.com/movi...

[Tsar4ever01]

Yeah, this is probably true, Sony's getting a little something out of this. But on the other side of the coin. Sony may be paying some patient royalties to MS cuz their console is every bit of AMD hardware as MS's console, also PS4 officially supports MS's DX 11.1 api, it been confirmed on many sites already. Whether or not devs utilize dx11 for sony games or not doesn't matter, the FACT is ps4 could run it may be enough to have to pay MS. Even though sony has upgraded it's own api that presumes to surpass the the limitations of dx 11 & opengl named PSL/PlayStation Shader Language but we won't see any graphical effects of psl till later in the console life cycle.

So the lesson of this post is patient royalties in biz sometimes SWINGS BOTH WAYS, ya'll.

[SniperControl]

@HOLLYWOODLAND

Not sure about this Hollywood, maybe you can correct me, but didnt the studios decide to drop the VC-1 codec and go for the H264 codec instead due to a higher compression rate?

I am sure i heard this somewhere? but i could be wrong.

[dedicatedtogamers]

What Sony will gain is reputation, not necessarily money. For every Blu Ray that sells on X1, it will be a vindication for the PS3. It also means that more cross-gen games will appear on PS3 for a longer period of time.

And if/when another format war arises, people will say "Remember how BR versus HD-DVD turned out? I'm buying whatever Sony supports".

[Sitdown]

Just like they did with betamax ehh?

[dedicatedtogamers]

@ Sitdown

If the best "zinger" you can muster is a failure from the late '70s, that kinda proves my point, doesn't it?

I mean, you could've gone with something like UMD or minidisc, but betamax? C'mon...

[Heartnet]

i think the average Consumer has completely forgotton Hd-Dvd..

[Sitdown]

@dedicatedtigamers

Since my post went over your head it's evident that you don't even understand your own rant.....as you prove my point; you think people will now automatically blindly go with Sony just because bluray won out over hd-dvd, when history has shown the market has regularly turned down products that Sony has supported regarding formats. Can you explain your ps3 vindication theory? Also your cross gen logic.

@Heartnet
Exactly, and I doubt most people automatically think Sony when discussing bluray.

[madpuppy]

@Sitdown

regarding Betamax, it was (is) a better format than VHS, but, not enough for the average consumer to care and spend more on it, also, VHS had an 8hr recording time and betamax, being smaller only had a 6hr recording time on it's slowest recording mode. so, a more expensive price and shorter record time over was a deal breaker for the consumer that didn't mind the degradation in quality in comparison, a win for JVC for sure.
But, Betamax was VERY popular in the professional sector and is still used in the television industry, (although, digital media eg: HD and solid state) is replacing it now.

[HugoDrax]

I remember how it turned out. It's funny because at the time the more affordable/consumer friendly product was HDDVD. It was cheaper to manufacture and cost less than Blu Ray. The deciding factor was Universal Studios which was supporting HDDVD format at the time. I recall reading an article that stated Toshiba could only fork over approx 180Million to Universal and Sony countered that offer with 300-380 Million. Once that was decided, it was a done deal. Blu Ray format was the victor. I'll look for the articles online, may take a while but I do remember the war as being Sony vs Toshiba not necessarily Sony VS Microsoft.

[mwjw696]

@madpuppy Betamax has not been used in the industry for 10+ years. I don't know what backwoods tech place you know of. Digital and DVD has been the base for a long time.

You also forgot the main reason VHS took off vs Betamax. PORN! VHS was the only ones that would let the porn industry use their tech. It almost single handily won that war.

[loulou]

dedicated to fanboys. wtf? seriously? you just write any nonsense to get bubbles.

if anything, ps3s blu-ray what sort of vindicated by the lack of multi-disc games on. that is all.

saying that the x1s blu-ray inclusion is the vindication is utter nonsense. and wtf is this cross gen sh#t you are talking about????

and like i said, your typical pathetic bubble fishing comment. you truely are the worst troll on here

[badz149]

Sony never countered the $180m given to Universal and Paramount by Microsoft. It was a bold move but worked to delay the inevitable as Transformers was mad exclusive to HD DVD at that time.

the deciding factor was Warner who up until that time, released on both formats but ultimately decided to side with BD, possibly convinced by the sale ratio of BD which was always higher than HD DVD. following that announcement, all major studios except Paramount and Universal are on the BD bandwagon. they had to jump ship and then Toshiba announced the discontinuation.

[DigitalRaptor]

@ loulou

Pot. Kettle. I hope you know the rest.

[truthteller]

@dedicatedtogamers

I agree. Sony does have an edge at cross-platform games but only with first-party studios. Third-party will most likely make for all consoles ( current gen and next, not excluding 360 - example Destiny ) or only next-gen. But I also doubt Sony will let it's studios make cross-gen titles b/c they want PS4 to sell. Maybe Japan studios.

[loulou]

ofcourse i know the rest raptor. i dont suck sonys bell, so automatically i am an xbox fanboy... even though i have a ps4 on pre-order

[Heartnet]

a buck for every disc? way to high me thinkz.. 2 dollars royaltys for the drive.. ur looking at pennies if that per disc

[HugoDrax]

How about how much is SONY paying Microsoft for use of Direct X11 in the PS4?

Both companies are paying one another. Microsoft is paying SONY a small fraction for Blu-Ray, and SONY is paying Microsoft a small fraction for use of Direct X11.

*EDIT*
What ignorant Sony fanboy clicked Disagree, but didn't reply? without doing research to see I stated facts? Not rumors, but facts. It is a fact that Direct X is a component of Microsoft Windows. It is used by a plethora of software applications for graphics visualization. Also used for games developed on the Dreamcast, Xbox, X360. Now it will be used by Sony on the PS4.

Microsoft Source:
http://www.bit-tech.net/new...

Sony Source:
http://www.geek.com/games/s...

[sak500]

Well said Auric...

LOL, Sony uses Windows in their notebooks. Only to fanboys it's like a victory if X1 uses bluray but for those two big conglomerates it's nature of business and they are not mortal enemies to each other. They have been collaborating on many things for tons of years and only started against each other over consoles.

[Persistantthug]

DirectX is not something anyone needs or has to use.
DirectX is an API tool, and its main purpose is to consolidate many different devices, so that, for example, an ATI GPU can effectively be programed the same as an NVIDIA GPU. This is used so that is makes it easier, primarily for PC programers.

One downside of DirectX, is the fact that developers can't ever really get the full potential of said device.

None of Sony's consoles or handhelds have ever used or needed DirectX.

[blanket14]

I thought ps4 uses open gl not dx..............

[YNWA96]

Remember, Sony are not in this for the money....

[pixelsword]

At any rate, yeah, whether people will admit it or not, Xbone purchases will go to sony; nothing wrong with that, it's just the way it is.

I guess blu-ray is needed this gen.

[showtimefolks]

It's some good pocket change but nothing major

Sony computers use windows

It's the fanboys who think about this stuff, end of the day ps4 has build a lot of momentum and I expect Sony to roar back into #1 from day one. As someone who bought ps1 this time around reminds me of launch of ps1-ps2 when Sony was on fire

[alb1899]

What is The point on this.......isn't Microsoft a more prosper and richer company?
Isn't Bill Gates the richest person on earth?
Isn't Apple making some parts of the iPhone with Samsung......so what?
Does that make apple less better than Samsung or something?
Does it make SONY BETTER THAN MICROSOFT?
How much pay SONY to Microsoft in the computer business?
Who needs who?

[Funantic1]

These companies have always paid licensing fees to each other. The Microsoft Office and Windows fees are far more expensive depending on which edition the Sony Vaio computers use. The fees were once $120 once but Microsoft supposedly slashed the prices a whole lot this year. And the fees for the blu ray disc are like 12 cents. Plus the fees paid for the blu ray usage is $9.50 but divided between 9 companies of the BDA. And fees eventually go down. Microsoft can easily pay this without hurting.

[KillrateOmega]

Eh, not that much (from the perspective of corporations of that size), but it's still something.

Better than nothing, right?

[RIP_Cell]

Sony is just one of the members of the BluRay Association

[Gimmemorebubblez]

Yup, they are one of the many members but they are one of the 4 propriety owners of Blu-Ray technology and they control the rights to the use of Blu-ray in consoles. MS will pay them a minimal amount, its something but nothing to brag about. MS will pay maybe $4 in royalties and Sony might receive $1 for every Xbone.

[Belking]

but they are one of the 4 propriety owners of Blu-Ray technology and they control the rights to the use of Blu-ray in consoles.

That's not true. They don't control the rights to bluray used in a console. It doesn't work that way.

[Th4Freak]

@Belking Company, Shareholder, Patent, License. Take a look at these concepts and you will understand how it works.

[popup]

..and don't forget, with the power of the cloud, $1 is actually worth 10

[kneon]

These sorts of industry organizations normally license their technology on a fair and non-discriminatory basis, so Sony can't block a company from licensing bluray, provided they meet all the normal criteria and agree to the standard license.

[CertifiedGamer]

I said it since Microsoft was pushing for DRM that Microsoft wants to sway customers to buy Digital so they could try and avoid paying Sony and save big on just digital distribution but everyone knows how that idea turned out.

[hakeem0996]

MS DRM implementation was because the publishers ask for it and also because they want to destroy GAMESTOP. As for their pursuit of digital it because digital is the future.None of these measures has anything to do with SONY . MS and SONY have been paying each other for stuff since for ever . Yes MS will pay a few cents per disc to SONY but SONY still pays them for the codec they use . MS pays them for the CD,DVD,Bluray rights and Sony pays MS for codec ,use of windows in their computers and tons of other MS software . it's a give and take relationship

[kupomogli]

@hakeem0996

Both Sony and Microsoft stated that publishers didn't pressure them into adding DRM for their consoles. It's something Microsoft did on their own.

[Gamingcapacity]

Digital is the future we can agree on that. But what is wrong of offering consumers both?

We are at the stage that there is a higher demand for physical media for games than digital (on consoles). Sony and MS both offer digital versions of games so to try and kill physical media is a bit to soon. Let it die out naturally and let consumers convert to digital with a smoother transition.

[Sitdown]

That would make sense, except for the fact that not only were they still going to use bluray...but the used game policy was going to cause more people to purchase new.... which means even more blurays being sold.

[xtremexx]

could this be a reason why the Xbox One is $100 above the PS4 apart from the kinect? cause obviously the tech in the Xbox One like processor .etc are cheaper since they are weaker than the PS4's

[Foxgod]

The tech doesnt differ much in power and price, it really is Kinect that raised the price.
Kinect is an expensive piece of equipment that had a lot of hours of R&D into it.

[xtremexx]

GOD DAMMIT MICROSOFT

[Foxgod]

Well, they are hoping to set their console apart from the rest.

[raiden-49]

I don't know why there are so many dislikes they did put the hours in to "fix" the Kinect to make gamers like it more see by the results its not working.
EDIT:Also the fix part doesn't mean I don't agree about how shitty Kinect v1 was but it was.

[Kenshin_BATT0USAI]

People are assuming the Kinect is a $100 piece of hardware. I just want to point this out. As much as I don't care for it, it's pretty impressive in what it can do, and I can bet that it's over $150 alone. I wouldn't be surprised if Microsoft is selling the X1 at a loss.

[S2Killinit]

in my opinion what drove the cost high is because of all the data gathering capabilities of kinect. I don't think we will see too many games that will justify all the R&D that went into Kinect reading how you feel, or whats your heart rate, or where you look and for how long, or where the blood is rushing in your body, or how many people sit in front of it and whether that person is you. the last two or the ones that scare me the most by the way because Microsoft bragged about them to a group of industry analysts saying Kinect was the future of charging people for a rental based on how many people are sitting in front of the kinect. They even made the patents for these features. Personally I don't think MS will have the guts to implement these technologies in such a way, anytime soon, but the Kincet will be the catalyst that sets the precedent of invading peoples homes in ways that were unheard of only a few months ago. Once people buy into xbox (and they will) and it becomes normal to have such a device with these types of technologies in your home and be ok with it, then the next step will be to use the said technology to make money. Its kind of like the frog that gets boiled slowly, never jumps out of the pot story. Kinect will be the trojan horse that sets the precedent for all corporations to gather information from your homes using all sorts of devices you use.

[Qrphe]

"I wouldn't be surprised if Microsoft is selling the X1 at a loss. "

One is certain it will be selling at a loss Kinect or not if the PS4 also is. You're right about the Kinect's manufacturing costs, Kinect 1 retailed for $150, surely Kinect 2 is around that price specially since it's way ahead technologically.

[isa_scout]

It's impressive watching it on the internet(for some people I guess), but what happens when it's in the hands of the consumers? I think it's going to end up being like the kinect 1.0 on the 360. Mine started to collect dust after a few weeks because all MS released were casual shovelware titles, and lets be honest when you get home from work the last thing you want to do is wave your tired arms around in front of your TV.Kinect is cool for what it is, a device designed for kids and grandparents.

[rainslacker]

Not likely. Keep in mind that there is going to be tech in the PS4 that Sony will be licensing from MS as well. MS and Sony will be licensing tech from Motorola, Samsung, and likely many other companies as well. It's just the way computer stuff is made nowadays.

Patent licensing of this nature is usually fractions of a penny per unit, or sometimes just a base price to license the tech.

Everyone assumes that the Kinect is the main $100 price difference, which is reasonable considering all it does, but I doubt it actually costs MS $100 to manufacture each Kinect device. Foxgod is accurate though that they would want to recoup R&D costs on the device, but that's likely part of the overall R&D budget for X1.

[TwistedMetal]

so either way xbox one fanboys lose. you will still be giving money to sony so you might as well go all the way and get the superior ps4 which has the better blueray player an discs.

[True_Samurai]

Yeeeeaaa but Blu ray has a codec that belongs to Microsoft. So they're paying Microsoft also :-p

[Foxgod]

Sun and Oracle also get money, considering java is used on Bluray disc's.

[rainslacker]

VC-1, the codec you are referring to, is actually owned by 18 different companies. It is considered an essential patent and licensing fees are paid either to the MPEG LA licensing body, or directly to it's members. The standard itself is open to implementation by anybody, but licensing may be required.

VC-1 is already supported by PS3 and is the standard codec for the 360.

It's worth noting that Sony is one of the 18 members who holds a patent that is part of VC-1.

Overall this whole debate is stupid. These companies aren't really at each others throats. And any licensing fees paid through this stuff is paltry compared to other costs involved in manufacturing these systems or games.

I'd also like to point out, that most of these fees are paid by the actual practical application of the patent application. For instance, in Foxgod's example of Java, Sun isn't likely to get anything unless the disc actually uses something that is Java based. That fee will likely come from the development tool used to make the content in question, and isn't paid on a per unit basis.

[True_Samurai]

^^^ VC-1 is no longer the codec they have upgraded

[rainslacker]

Mind if I ask what codec Blu-Ray upgraded to? All I can find is that it is one of the codecs used in Blu-Ray. BTW, blu-ray actually supports several codecs. VC-1 was just the commonly accepted one used for movie playback. MPEG-4AVC is the other compatible format that's a choice to use for HD playback, but they've both been available from the start.

[True_Samurai]

^^ VC-9 of course

[rainslacker]

VC-1 is the official release VC-9. VC-9 was never an official release, but a provisional standard. VC-9 is a standard that BD-ROM was going to support in 2004, in 2006 they used VC-1 instead as that was the official version of the codec released by MS.

[CalamityCB]

Whats wrong with giving Sony royalties?
Please remove the fanboy rod outwards from the butt. You may discover a whole new world of video games.

[TwistedMetal]

well Ms didn't put bluerays in there x360 and they tried to make hd dvd the winner so they feeling salty right now as well as all the xbox 360 hd dvd owners. I would like to see those fanboys comments about hddvd killing blueray lol. also like to see there comments on x360 selling more then ps3 because ps3 is winning as well. don't bet on a loosing horse. history here shows us the winner will be ps4

[blackout]

What stupid A$$e$. Sony as well as every other hardware maker aint seeing nothing cause the pay MICROSOFT for there WINDOWS licence. Stop trying to use your N4G brains to much. And guess what Microsoft owns that all by themselves. Now ask how much is a windows licence. Thats the real question?????????????????????? ??????????????????????????????? ??????????????????????????????? ??????????????????????????????? ??????????????????????????????? ???????

[Kenshin_BATT0USAI]

In strictly console speech, Microsoft is the only one that uses Windows OS stuff for their consoles.

[aviator189]

I'm not even going to bother commenting here anymore, at least for the time being.
Even if I want to disprove someone with factual evidence, I'll probably get an insane number of disagrees..

I honestly think I'm almost finished participating in this online community.

[TwistedMetal]

don't let the door hit you where the good lord split ya on your way out son. don't fight the ps4 and you will be able to relax and live in peace on n4g its that simple. for some reason you guys brains are incapable of doing the thing that will allow you to survive and that's support the ps4. survival of the fittest and smartest

[omi25p]

Yeaah but the X1 has a better exclusive line up.

But either way im getting both.

[NatureOfLogic]

At the end of day, MS will be paying Sony. The more successful the Xbox One becomes, the more money Sony gets. MS backed the wrong horse and is now literally paying for it.

[Foxgod]

srcasm: Yeah, those 10ns of millions of MS their money going to Sony will really hurt them. /sarcasm

Besides, they also had to pay royalties to use the dvd player, it doesnt make much of a difference.

[n4rc]

Do you understand how many licenses each console has to retain?

Sure its a laugh to fanboys that ms is paying Sony.. But I would be surprised if Sony wasn't paying ms for one of their licenses..

Its a standard business practice.. Nothing worth getting worked up about

[True_Samurai]

They're paying Microsoft for that VC Codec just to let you know

[n4rc]

Lol.. Good to know.. Was just assuming but nice to know I was right haha

[rainslacker]

Did you know that Sony is part of the VC-1 Patent pool? Along with 17 other companies including MS. It's possible they're both free to use VC-1 without any licensing costs. We'll never really know unless they decide to just mention it one day for some reason.

MS did develop the standard though, which is what it is, a standard. Individual codecs can be made by anyone, although most companies would just use the MS SDK's available for cost reasons. VC-1 is part of SMPTE. SMPTE is a set of video standards. A commonly known one is the color bars used for color calibration on TV's.

[humbleopinion]

The VC-1 Patent pool mostly consists of Microsoft patents, so either way you have to pay them directly for patent implementation (which Sony does), or indirectly via the MPEG LA, which in turns pays Microsoft most of that amount since they're holding most of the patents for VC-1.

But doesn't really change the big picture though. It's a global world where each electronic product you create will require making payments to multiple companies and trade bodies thanks to hundreds if not thousands of registered patents. Microsoft for example probably payed Sony indirectly for DVD licensing costs since Sony held a few patents there as well.
But these sums of money are negligible per unit anyway: a few cents of royalties per copy divided between multiple patent holders.

So it's not as if something drastically changes now: Microsoft will simply license one tech instead of the other. But if anything, the slow shift towards digital distribution changes things the other way round: you don't have to pay royalties to hardware companies holding patents on physical media, but instead you pay for software patents on digital distribution - an area where Microsoft (being a software and internet giant) obviously has far better hold than Sony.

Bottom line, patents are a huge mess. One of the funniest stories last gen was about Microsoft making tens of millions of dollars from Sony thanks to a patent which they DID NOT EVEN OWN (controller vibration from Immersion):
This was thanks to a clause which Microsoft made when settling over Immersion's patent infringements. Microsoft payed a big sum to settle while Sony went to court, but Microsoft's settlement also involved buying some of Immersion's stock and some other clauses relating to the case against Sony - and this netted them around 20 million dollars after Sony lost the case:
http://www.crn.com/blogs-op...

[Baka-akaB]

Why are people even surprised and acting that way ? When it comes to software and of course pc hardware , they were already business partners .

Is someone going to have a ruptured anevrism too when he realises that part of the iphone and ipad's hardware is manufactured by Samsung and how many patent makes the pay licenses to each others ?

[SpinalRemains138]

As another poster mentioned, so eloquently, an Xbox fan, may as well purchase the PS4 now.

You're supporting the superior console whether you buy a PS4 or you buy a Bone.

Why not avoid the Bone altogether & play Warframe and watch Netflix sans paywall, and play Naughty Dog games?

Seems like a no brainer to me. Maybe I have no brain tho :p

Seriously though, who the hell cares. None of us are seeing a dam dime of that cabbage.

[Kenshin_BATT0USAI]

I just want to point this out. I can play Warframe on my pc for free already. That is the least convincing reason to buy a console.

[SpinalRemains138]

Rad it in context, papa.
I'm discussing the purchase of a PS4 over the XO.

[Foxgod]

The Ps4 uses DirectX btw, MS owns DirectX, so Sony and MS probably got an agreement with each other to use each others tech license free.

[bessy67]

Vita also uses Skype, which is owned by MS. Although I guess that probably doesn't cost Sony much since no one owns a Vita...

[scott182]

lol, that was pretty good.

[sexbobomb91]

That number of disagrees tell me otherwise.

[bessy67]

OK, I guess 28 people own a Vita. That actually sounds about right.

[Trevonn]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...

[Tyre]

Thx TwistyTrev I knew Foxgod was lying sack of $h#t, on almost every article he commented with that DirectX BS. He doesn't know anything about programming languages or hardware architectures, He just states flatout lies to confuse people on articles about the consoles. We caught you...He's just a biased & camouflaged Xbox fanboy spreading lies in favor of his buddy 'The Xbone'.

[wenaldy]

"The Ps4 uses DirectX btw, MS owns DirectX, so Sony and MS probably got an agreement with each other to use each others tech license free."

Holy shit, that's BLATANT lies... PS4 uses PSSL/ HLSL. And PS3 uses OpenGL.

[mixelon]

No it doesnt, nor has any Sony console to date.

And thats not a big deal at all.. Games running on macs and linux use openGL rather than directX too, and even a lot of windows games use openGL instead of, or in combination with DirectX.

[rainslacker]

Even if that were true, which it's not, DirectX doesn't cost anything to use. MS provides it for free to anyone who wants to use it. This information is readily available on MS own website and within DirectX's own EULA, from consumer to developer to manufacturer.

Either way, that would be a software thing, not a hardware thing. If there were a fee, it would be paid by the developer, not the console maker.

[fsfsxii]

Stop lying please.

[XtreemGamer]

Don't lie Foxy... PS4 is using linux(well, FreeBSD to be precise). DirectX API is only for Windows. PS4 will use (like PS3) OpenGL and OpenCL.

[wenaldy]

He finally showed his true color..

[cee773]

Panasonic and sony both will make millions off xbox one simply because these two own most Blu Ray Patents, Panasonic Owns most of the Blu Ray lens patents while sony own most of the Disc Patent

so rather its A console sold or A game Panasony will receive 100's of millions of dollars from Microsoft by the time the next gen is over with. Just like Motorola makes hundreds of millions just off the wifi Patents.

Sony will make Millions off Halo, Gears , forza etc.

[joeorc]

Blank blu-ray disc's from some where/wink

[C-Thunder]

Man, that guy is so cocky.

[LoveSpuds]

I too got a really smug vibe off him, bit of a prat really.

[solidworm]

Win win for Sony this gen.

[FrigidDARKNESS]

Lmao pachter said Drive Club look Stupid to him.

[No_Limit]

MS gets royalty for every android device sold. MS gets royalty for various codec and Skype usage. Sony has to pay MS to license Windows for every one of their PC sold. Patent royalty fees goes in circle in the business world.

[fsfsxii]

I thought Andriod was Linux based
http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...

[No_Limit]

It is not the OS licensing, it is the various Patents within the Android OS that belongs to MS that requires venders to pay royalty fee.

http://blogs.computerworld....
"Microsoft's haul from mobile: $800 million from Android royalties in one quarter"
"Microsoft General Counsel Brad Smith and Microsoft Deputy General Counsel Horacio Gutierrez wrote in a blog that at that point Microsoft had patent deals in place that brought in royalties for more than half of all Android smartphones sold in the U.S."
"They based them on estimates that HTC pays Microsoft $10 per Android device in patent royalties, and Samsung pays between $10 and $12 per Android device in patent royalties."

Imagine those royalty fees from the Galaxy lines of phones and tablets. It literally makes the Blu Ray fees look like child's play in comparison.

[fsfsxii]

http://www.nasdaq.com/artic...
Hmm, turns out you're right. But how would they profit from Android since its linux based and linux haas nothing to do with MS??

[No_Limit]

" But how would they profit from Android since its linux based and linux haas nothing to do with MS??"

HuH??? Are you serious???? You already knew the answer to that. Just like how this article is proclaiming Sony will get a ROYALTY fee for every xbox one sold. It'll come around to you soon. LOL

[n4rc]

Lol.. Why are Sony fans such pricks?

Been wondering this.. I see very little of these so called "Xbox fanboys".. The only time I really see shittalk to PS fans is where they are being annoying little idiots spewing lies and misinformation.

Honestly.. I've had all 3 PlayStation's
. yet I don't see a reason liking one means you have to hate the other.. Especially since I'm a real gamer, I own them both. Or especially the need to think people are morons if they don't see things my way..

Am I a bad Sony owner? Lol .

Edit.. Response is typical, thanks for proving my point lol

[OSIRUSSS]

I don't think anyone asked you what consoles you owned! No one frakkin cares!

[scott182]

Oh thanks, I was wondering what it took to be a "real gamer" maybe I will move back in with my parents so I can afford both consoles.

[AceBlazer13]

wtf is real gamer?

[fsfsxii]

A real gamer is a myth

[TheOneEyedHound]

1 Zillion Dollers.

[OSIRUSSS]

So Sony makes money directly from MS AND off of every BR sold? Pimpmode activated!!! LOL!

[thelaughingwiseman]

Sony came up with the Blu Ray disc on long with some other company. Sony owns 30% of the patent. So 30 cents from every dollar a blu ray disc is worth

[mixelon]

Wow, thats conpletely not how it works!

[Kenshin_BATT0USAI]

It's funny, I see people bash Pach all the time. But frankly, the guy is extremely realistic unlike most people, and extremely apathetic towards this whole thing.

[Grown Folks Talk]

People still act like because they choose to only like 1 of the consoles that Sony & Microsoft don't regularly partner in many instances across their numerous products.

[blackout]

A windows pro licence cost 100$. Now if sony is only seeing 4 dollars of every bluray sold and thats not all their money (four way split). Compared to Microsoft, lets say they wholesale there licence so we will go with 80$ per. Now sounds to me that Sony has a lot of ground work, and the money that you may think Sony is receiving they may never even see, might just be a minor discount on the windows licence. APPLES TO ORANGES my fellow Sony fanbaoys. And if you don't know, if this ps4 thing doesn't work out the way sony needs it to this may be it for them, there is a lot invested in this console. And they can't just be spending money to compete. Being bankrupt is lurking and selling buildings as well as other assets doesn't bring profit. SONY HAS BEEN RAN INTO THE GROUND.

[OSIRUSSS]

Who the hell cares about windows license we are talking consoles here! Unless windows shows up on the PS4 you are off topic!

[AceBlazer13]

sony has its insurance in japan and media companies bringing their profits. playstation is the least of their worries

[PSN_ZeroOnyx]

Sad how few of you know anything but you're all experts.

[DaGR8JIBRALTAR]

Sony to microsoft: You still upset that the major movie studios sided with us, leaving hd-dvd to go the way of betamax....................... ..........FUCK YOU, PAY ME!

[ThatCanadianGuy514]

Pay Yo pimp, microsoft.

[McScroggz]

I understand why some dislike Pachter and his "predictions" but honestly I find it fascinating to occasionally listen to a different perspective on the gaming industry. Sure, there are instances where I think he's an idiot but I'm willing to admit that he is definitely more knowledgeable about the financial aspects of the industry.

[Ripsta7th]

jusst kus hes on Sony's nuts now huh? admit it

[lema008]

I bet MS and Sony have had talks and came to some kind of agreement to compensate ie.. using a MS windows license maybe?

Or, you could look at it this way?! Mighty big of MS to help Sony financially. MS isn't that bad boogieman, you all thought.

[mrbojingles]

I'm pretty sure Sony doesn't actually receive money on BluRay stuff

[Sy_Wolf]

Sony doesnt own BluRay. They do own a very large chunk of the BluRay Disk Association however. So Microsoft isn't directly paying Sony anything.

[RankFTW]

After reading through all the above comments I have decided that most people on this site are idiots.

[chuckyj1]

wonder how much Sony computers division pays MS to use Windows based OS's in their computers.... Seeing as how MS owns all rights to windows OS's probably much less then MS is paying Sony for Blu-Ray.

[NeoTribe]

Yet another point scored by sony. This gen will go down in history. The nsa spybox is a disaster.

[GABRIEL1030]

LOL, the idiot that pays for all this things is the consumer, the people is fighting for each company and maybe MS and Sony are the best friends, because share products like Blue Ray, Windows apps............

[NeoTribe]

Why did you get out of bed this morning?

[Fakdafakinfakerz]

I don't care about what Patcher have to say but it's fun to see MS trolls trying to deny the truth.

[Agent_hitman]

Sony will collect small percentage of Royalty fee for every Blu-ray games and xbone one sold.. That's a fact, sony was one of the companies who invested in early blu-ray tech in early 2002 lol.. I'm pretty sure Sony is one of the major boss or director in BDA..

[Der_Kommandant]

I suspect WW3 will be Sony vs Microsoft.

[NeoTribe]

Just because a company makes money off there product doesnt mean thwy dont care about the consumer. You must have failed consumer economics. A company that treats there consumers well and gives a fantastic product will have the support of the consumer. Ive never felt ripped off by sony. Ps plus for example is the best 50 bucks ive ever spent twords a game related purchase. Ive probably played 500 dollars worth of games last year using it. Do you call that robbery? The new ps4 doesnt make me buy new cords and other peripheral bullshit for it. The xbox does. Ps4 doesnt make me have a gimmicky camera, instead they give me the option to buy it or not. Get where im going with this? Your a disgruntled consumer because your a horrible consumer. I bought a truck recently for 12k and a month or two later the steering colum went bad, i didnt have any form of warranty but the little place i bought it from replaced free of charge... You know why they did that? Because they appreciate my buisness. For that ill always recommend them and buy my next car there. Long story short, just because microsoft is a money sucking leech doesnt mean every company that sells a product for a price is.

[windblowsagain]

I would like to know who started all these arguments.

I had a PS1 and then went PC.

I never touched xbox 1 or PS2.

Where did the hate start to creep in.

I did notice alot of hate articles for PS3 before it came out, i bought the 80gb phat slightly later.

I never bought the 360 orginally because of the RROD, later on i bought a newer version, but found it wasn't attached to the games. So i sold it.

I just like the games that Sony offers 1st party etc.

My fav shooter has always been the battlefield series on PC.

But it'll be interesting what games come for the new systems and how both run, both os wise and how stable both are.

People do need to stop pulling facts out of their arse though.

[OniXRuleZ]

How about sony using Windows software in Vaio laptops ou Direct X software to build Games!??

[pete007]

sony does not uses direct x,they use libcgm instead and open gl before develloping their own api,

[pete007]

id gladly change every penny sony`s getting in exchange for what they habe been paying MSFT for every copy of Windows on every vaio

[Adolph Fitler]

@HOLLYWOODLAND
I hope Sony milk the living shite out of them..
I think Blu Ray has been good for games, as the disks themselves are far more durable & less prone to scratching, as opposed to both CD & DVD. (It can only be a good thing when your movies & games don't scratch as easily as other disk based formats, & even if you do scratch it signifantly, your Blu-Ray player or game system will still play it. So there's the glaringly obvious answer to the usefulness of Blu-Ray.

And HOLLYWOOD, if Blu-Ray is the dead horse that you distortedly believe it is, then why in the name of GOD would MS be stupid enough to pay Sony & others, for the rights to use it?
I'll give you a clue.....BECAUSE PHYSICAL MEDIA AIN'T GOING NOWHERE, YET..... Mate, Blu-Ray movie sales will skyrocket & be very much , even more of a success than it has been thus far. Especially for Sony, as EVERY SINGLE DISK that MS prints, is Sony property, until it's paid for. So, MS will have to pay Sony a licensing fee, just to have there game on a disk.....Now, it may not seem like much, when we're talking literally, 5 or 10c out of a $59 retail game, but add each & every game pressed, by each & every developer/publisher, then add on all the movie production houses, that are also releasing on Blu-Ray, then you are talking mega returns for Sony.
The fact that PS3, PS4 & XBOne are all using Blu-Ray, means that Sony's customer base doubles, without them even having to own a Sony made product.

And, not only does Sony finally get to enjoy some kind of much deserved financial relief, but I as a consumer, am happy that the medium is still being supported, & that the potential for Sony to sell more Blu-Ray movies alone, may mean that I as a avid film buff (as well as gamer), may experience a decent drop in price, for my hardcopy BR films.
And I care not what any opposing fanboys have said in years gone by, & still more than likely are, the fact is that only a complete moron would deny that extra storage can only be a good thing.

[spoonard]

Microsoft's Dre Day is Sony's pay day!

[Flames76]

To be honest its the only way sony will be making money off the PS4.Hell the PS3 lost over 5 billions so at least with the Xbox One flying off shelves maybe sony can make a little money on the PS4

[AceofStaves]

This isn't 2006. Sony hasn't added a newly-designed processor or new optical format to PS4 as it did with PS3. Given the nature of the hardware found in the PS4, I wouldn't be surprised if it was profitable at launch.

[-Gespenst-]

Ha! I hadn't even thought of this! Weird.

[oscarcat59]

Why is this a big deal? Companies do this all the time. How about windows operating system for sony's computers to name one. A worthless post.