PS4 Price Reduced by Removing Camera, Will Games Suffer?

DailyGame: Will Sony’s removing the camera to get the PS4 price reduced have long-term consequences for next-gen games? What does it mean for multiplatform titles?

[ZBlacktt]

We've already said no in other stories about this. I have never once owned a Eye or motion controller set up. It's just not for me. Yet, I own many games that have the ability to use those types of controllers. But since I don't "need" them and can use the DS3. I'm not missing out on anything. I'm glad the camera is not forced on us.

[dedicatedtogamers]

Hahahah that title....

Yeah, I'm also glad the camera isn't forced on us. I have yet to see a single game that truly justifies Kinect or Eye on the 360/PS3 and I'd be pleasantly surprised if the next-gen cameras were significantly better.

[LOGICWINS]

We should be seeing more Move/Eye stuff at Gamescom.

[badboy776]

No unless the Camera was Mandatory and had to stay on for the system to Function. Because even though the camera may have been included it can break at any moment Then what?

[MikeMyers]

Of course they are better. Both will offer better capturing and the Kinect 2 will be able to detect up to 6 people, distinguish voices much clearer, see people in bad lighting, less size requirements, and even be able to read your heart rate.

These cameras won't make every game better but having it on every platform makes it much easier for developers to utilize. That was the major issue with the Playstation Move. Great device but poor support. It also didn't help developers when they didn't know how many actual people they could potentially sell to since some people such as myself owned more than one of them. Games like Dance Central proved to be big hits and was only possible on the Kinect.

The trade off of course is it brings up the price and not every person cares about it. However what we don't need are consoles being the same. What's the point? Why not have a system like the Wii U with a Gamepad in each system and a Xbox One with a camera in every system and a standard console like the PS4? Even the PS4 will all have touchpad support on the controller which means they will likely use that feature much more than selling an optional controller with a touchpad on it.

[SilentNegotiator]

I would say quite the opposite. Developers can focus on making the game instead of finding some way to shoehorn gimmicks in.

[MikeMyers]

"I would say quite the opposite. Developers can focus on making the game instead of finding some way to shoehorn gimmicks in."

Sure you'll get that in some cases but it's not mandatory to use it. They are still offering standard controllers on the PS4 and Xbox One. It's not like Kinect has to be used in Forza 5 to control the car. Instead it has Kinect features that you can choose to use or ignore.

[JokesOnYou]

No games won't suffer, most ps4 games just wont have the same motion/voice options as X1 games, however a great ps4 game will still be a great ps4 game with or without ps eye/motion.....the difference is micro is fully supporting kinect while sony is making ps eye optional/peripheral. I got to say Im glad micro has really showed some damm committment for once and stuck to their guns by putting alot of support behind kinect -I remember when the knock was it was just a wii like gimmick that they would drop soon.

We've already seen how kinect implementation is being added to more and more core games. If you don't care about expanding game play options through gesture or voice controls because a controller works just fine then micro strategy doesn't mean much to you but if you're like me and welcome new ways to interact with early games like Forza5 and Ryse then you'll love micros strategy this gen....its a major difference between the 2 consoles, we shall see which pays off more in the long run.

[The_Con-Sept]

Honestly what kind of article is this? I hate motion controlled gaming. Never bought a Wii, never bought a 360 for Kinect, I have the ps eye but only cause it came with the wizards of the coast game. I use it to video chat mostly with my friends. I do own 9 psn ps eye titles. But I never play them. Because each one was less spectacular than the last. Motion controlled gaming is only fun for 30 minutes. Navigating menus by pretending to be a composer is annoying and tiresome. Minority report esque crap should stay in minority report.

[Ju]

It's a pity they took it out, but I'd go with the price decision and I am OK with it.

I like me some Move controls and a camera would certainly have lowered the entry barrier and opened up markets for camera based games which now will rely on the numbers the camera/Move can sell as an add on which is of course lower.

But, yes, it would probably have raised the console price for 80% of customers. Looks like the majority doesn't want it. Yet, I still hope devs will implement the feature. Dev kits come with cameras, so at least there you don't have to buy an add on to make it work and all the tools are available which should at least make it easier to support it as an option.

[SilentNegotiator]

"Sure you'll get that in some cases but it's not mandatory to use it"

It still causes many developers to limit games to what Kinect is capable of.

I know certain people have put a lot of stock into Ryse, but look at how clunky it is when not in a QTE, how full of setpieces it is, how narrow every environment is to serve easy Kinect-walking (think Rise of Nightmares), etc. It's still a Kinect game even if they put in traditional controls.

And then you get things like Fable: The Journey, where Microsoft takes a beloved franchise and makes it a Kinect game.

Entire studios like RARE get sucked into being almost entirely dedicated to producing Kinectware. RARE, starting out the generation making the very RARE-like Kameo, then having XBL rammed down its throat (leading to mediocrity like BK:N&B), then as a killing blow, Kinect shoved down their throat leaving no trace of what the studio once was.

The best things we've gotten out of Kinect as a game enhancer is shouting commands...and seeing as Microsoft doesn't have exclusive ownership of voice recognition software, we don't need a $100 camera for that.

PS4 gamers will get to vote with their wallets on the camera and the move.

[Godmars290]

Thing is with the PS3eye and games, Sony did a far better job of both integrating Move into games and making it optional. Move has its own games which means you have to have it to play them, but then its also usable with non-Move centric games and by reports improves them. Games like Kilzone and Infamous. Sony often says little to nothing about Move, but by all counts it does work.

Meanwhile with Kinect, especially now with 2.0, voice command has become the only thing MS actively talks and shows off. Know that many will disagree, but with the current demos there is still notable lag issues as well at that spastic tick. They've been talking up Smartglass more than they have any improvements for Kinect. Have reduced its importance and functionality on games like Ryse and Crimson Dragon - Xbox 360 games which were suppose to show that Kinect could be used for more than party games.

[nukeitall]

I'm glad the Kinect is included. I thoroughly enjoyed the current Kinect, as well as Wii.

However, I think the new Kinect is going to be really good from the tech demos shown.

If Kinect wasn't included, the Xbox One would just be another exstention of what we already have. The extra omph in graphics doesn't do it for me.

It has to have next gen features, otherwise I could have just gotten a PC and had beyond next-gen graphics now!

That is if I really cared about graphic much. I feel next gen should be about new ways to play. Continue what the Wii did, but focus that on core gamers.

When we went from rudimentary to 2D, then to 3D, and finally motion controlls, but the latter really wasn't for core gamers. So I'm hoping boundaries will be shifted again.

I personally think it was the right decision to include Kinect, and I love the idea of bringing Skype (and video into the living room and my games.

@badboy776:

"No unless the Camera was Mandatory and had to stay on for the system to Function. Because even though the camera may have been included it can break at any moment Then what?"

What happens when your controller break?

Which by the way is far more likely to happen!

[BISHOP-BRASIL]

Of course games will suffer, that's exactly why it's called a "sacrifice", but the general opinion is that's it was a worth one, as price is much more critical than camera functionality for most people.

Personally, I think it's the best strategy even if personally I'll be getting a camera later (if good stuff comes by, I'll be holding my Move and Navigator when I trade my PS3 anyway), simply because there's no need to punish everyone with a bigger price just to please the few of us that actually want some motion controls.

And, more importantly, it completelly avoid the mandatory or dominant motion control problem we have with Wii, good games that you don't want to play cause you have be jumping in front of the TV all the time. I rather have motion as an option here and there, never be forced to use it.

[miyamoto]

More Great Games Less Gimmicks

Spinning this rumor will make you dizzy M$ and will get you nowhere.

The PS Eye is not meant for 24/7 spying on gamers' privacy unlike the mandatory Spynect.

Don't be surprised if the present PS Eye and PS Move controllers can work with the PS4 as they do with PS3 and PC.

And Sony can bundle the new PS Eye with PS4 at discounted price like they do with PS3 today. Its about choice and options.

There are many lessons learned with my PS Move system on PS3
and I tell you motion controls are "optional" and not a core gamer's number one priority. Ask Naughty Dog about this.

This is just M$ campaign to make it seem that XBOne has more "value" and justify the $500 price tag ..... but no. People are smarter than this.
PS4 FTW!

[morganfell]

"...they took the camera out."

At what point was it in? These attempts to spin this matter are laughable and reek of the worst type of desperation.

Most core gamers have shown the camera isn't something for which they care and would rather developers take that time and effort and expend it elsewhere - such as using the superior hardware in the PS4 to provide an experience that can't be found on other consoles.

As was asked over at GAF, I want a long long list of all the great games that were made because consumers were forced to purchase a camera they did not desire.

After all of this talk about the superiority of cross game chat this generation and how your console was useless without it, maybe this worthless website should be asking why there is no headset with the X1 and why MS went proprietary on the plug for a headset you have to purchase separately rendering your current versions useless. Great marketing move.

[vickers500]

"Most core gamers have shown the camera isn't something for which they care and would rather developers take that time and effort and expend it elsewhere"

That's because it hasn't really been properly implemented in very many core games. Mass Effect 3 and Skyrim seem to be the only ones that come to mind, and Skyrim only got it from a later patch which didn't launch with the game.

Personally, from the youtube video demonstration I saw of Skyrim kinect features, I'd welcome a camera on either system in games like that. It seems like it makes equipping spells/gear/weapons much easier and much less of a pain in the ass then having to dig through tons of menus.

I don't think we absolutely need CAMERAS for that feature, but I sure as hell would love some proper voice control for my games, at least games like that where you have an inventory system with tons of different items that I'd rather not waste time scrolling through and would instead prefer to say "drink healing potion" or "poison current weapon" or "switch to fire spell", because in games like Skyrim or Fallout new vegas, I avoid using things like posions, potions, status enhancers (like med-x, buffout, psycho, steady, etc.) because it's far quicker to just fight the enemies at a slight disadvantage than to scroll through the menus and equip each one just for a brief fight.

But if a stupid camera is the only way that we'll get voice commands, then I'm fine with MS including it. Developers of core games never implement those features because they fear nobody will ever use it, but now that a kinect comes with every Xbone, they might actually make use of it and we might finally see some of these fabled "useful features" that kinect has been claiming to offer.

I'm not getting an Xbone at launch (still getting a ps4 at launch), but I'm very interested in seeing how microsofts shoehorned in kinect will translate into kinect supported games.

I'm not at all sold on the features of the actual motion control part of it, but voice control in my opinion (proper voice control) would be a wonderful addition to next gen games if they could get it right.

[morganfell]

It doesn't matter if it hasn't been implemented. People keep missing this. Its like an Obamacare sales pitch. People assuring you that its better for you when its actually a disaster that will only cost too much money, tax the system, and provide things you would rather pay for on your own IF you want them. And like Obamacare there are that core gorup that never pay for anything and expect to get everything for free. The camera has a dev cost in terms of time and money.

Most gamers do not want it. They want to lay back and relax, not get up and move around.

How many hours do you want to stand up when you could be kicked back with a cold beer?

Oh sure it's cool for the occasional game but pretty soon it gets old. There is no way they can implement a fully featured camera in a game without having to cut the budget in some place and at the end of the day most gamers would rather they spend that time and money on something else.

[pixelsword]

Yeah, because the camera made such a difference the last three gens.

/s

[NumOnePS3FanBoy]

@mykemyers Soo why won't M$ let you make that decision upon purchasing instead of shoving the gimmick kinect down peoples throats?

[MajorLazer]

I never use gimmicks. It's always just me and my controller and I certainly never miss out on anything

[vickers500]

@morganfell

Clearly you didn't bother to read my whole comment. Seems you were too busy trying to push your political beliefs on other people.

Please gtfo here with that crap, this is a gaming forum, not a political forum.

[morganfell]

So you can't use an analogy here at all? Nothing? How illiterate are people? You would be telling everyone to shut up.

And we, this includes you, plenty that isn't game related. How many times have you commented on morality? Well...people that live in glass houses.

I did read your comment and didn't bother disagreeing with eating a camera just because it's the only way to get voice coms.

Its absurd.

You are fine with them pushing a piece of equipment that wasn't used by core games, it drives up the price while omitting the item that was cheaper and was used by gamers. Brilliant.

[vickers500]

"So you can't use an analogy here at all? Nothing?"

There are plenty of gaming related analogies you could have used, instead you tried to push your irrelevant and opinionated beliefs onto others. Also, this article has absolutely nothing to do with morality, it has nothing to do with politics.

If you want people to hear your irrelevant opinions about politics, then go to a political forum or post something on facebook, or better yet, have an actual conversation with a human being face to face. Or even wait for an article to pop up that is related to politics, but keep it out of articles that it has nothing to do with.

This site is already a cesspool of immature pricks who cannot have a discussion without resorting to insulting people they disagree with, we don't need topics like politics polluting it any further. Though it seems you like contributing to it.

[morganfell]

What a laugh. Insulting people? Immature? Have you bothered to read what you have written? You use profanity like a 5th grader that just learned the F word. You insult people left and right and then you pull this hypocrite routine as if you have never:

1 - Discussed anything OT
2 - Used an analogy
3 - Insulted people
4 - Acted immature

I have news for you my smug little teenage friend, you are 3 for 4 in this thread alone. Grow up, put on your big girl panties, learn to laugh at yourself, pull the stick out of your backside, and take a long hard look at your own actions and words.

Irrelevant? Who died and made you relevant police chief? Not your decision pal. And I will keep on because apparently you do not like it.

[Diver]

Vickers dude where did you go to school? The whole point of an analogy is to use an unrelated subject. In this case a govt plan is related to gaming. Maybe you haven't gotten to the grade where they teach that. Thas what an analogy does dude. Man you really now how to pwn yourself.

[vickers500]

" You use profanity like a 5th grader that just learned the F word"

...I used it once in my comment (in an abbreviation). But nice that you automatically assume I'm a teenager.

You know what? I apologize. I should know better than to have responded to someone like you in the first place. People like you aren't happy unless they're picking a fight with someone about something.

I try and discuss the possible positives of the other side to the "include a camera" argument, and instead of actually responding to what I said, you go on an unrelated rant about Obama for whatever reason (your rant being completely subjective) and don't even respond to the main points of my argument.

Over the years, there has always seemed to have been an unspoken rule here on n4g (and probably other gaming sites), to not bring up overly sensitive issues (like religion, sexual orientation, political beliefs, etc.) UNLESS it was relevant to the topic of conversation, like an article discussing the involvement of government in gaming or the inclusion of sexual orientation in a game or "should god be in video games", but those discussions are usually kept to those articles. It's one of the few things that I admired about the gaming community here.

I'm not opposed to discussing such issues WHEN IT'S RELEVANT TO THE ISSUE AT HAND, but your anti-obama rant isn't in an article like this. But whatever, I give up. There's just no possible way of conversing in a civilized manner with people as angry and bitter as yourself.

[morganfell]

"There's just no possible way of conversing in a civilized manner with people as angry and bitter as yourself."

Hold on, I'm still on the floor...ha ha ha ha ha.

One more minute my sides are hurting. Seriously? Go back and look at this thread and see which one of us flew apart cursing and being spiteful. That would be you. I never knew literary techniques could be so maddening. No wonder the works of Shakespeare are filled with so much madness.

A little self reflection and a good dose of objectivity might allow you to see which one of us became bombastic. I do have the impression it was general politics that upset you but rather the use of the "O" word in a negative connotation. Oh well, another day another angry person.

[Prime_28]

You seem to be missing the point of this article. No one is going to buy the camera now that it's sold separately. The ps move was sold separately and did not sell very well. So it's likely that games that will require the camera will suffer in sales.

[SilentNegotiator]

If gamers vote with their wallets not to buy a camera or move and camera/move games, then so be it.

[Minato-Namikaze]

The move sold 15 million units.......

[nukeitall]

It is a chicken and egg problem.

If nobody has it, who is going to spend time making a great experience for it?

I personally think it was the right decision, and I love the idea of bringing Skype (and video into the living room and my games.

[moparful99]

Here's my point "motion" controls have proved to be very gimmicky so far and Forcing the consumer to have it whether they want it or not probably wont change the shallow and gimmicky nature of motion games. Especially on the Kinect, there is a limitation on full interaction.. You can't move in full 3d space, you can only move as far as you are from the camera.. So that means that you would either have to use the controller in conjuction with the Kinect which eliminates the uniqueness of Kinect or it has to be an on rails experience.. So far only voice commands seem to be the best use of Kinect and even that doesn't improve gaming to the point where its a must have.. I would much rather Sony leave the camera out and save $100 and have the option to buy later then to be forced into buying it...

[filipakos]

Move is okay if you get used to it.There are some cool games for move but got certain type of gamers.Not me but i enjoyed playing for a day or so.Forcing it wouldnt be a good strategy and im glad they left the option on us whether we buy it or not.Most gamers including me prefer to buy a game or the one year sub for ps+ with the console

[JetsFool3500]

Im Just Happy Sony Isn't Stickin Tha Camera Down Our Throats & Forcing Us To Use It

[DaGR8JIBRALTAR]

there's a reason Microsoft is forcing the Kinect. ...trust me.

[GABRIEL1030]

I never have used a camera in video games. For the xbox, kinect was its perdition, for example Star wars kinect is humiliating and insulting.....

https://www.youtube.com/wat...

[CalvinKlein]

Nope the games wont suffer, because cameras and mandatory motion controls suck. Im glad that barely anyone will have it so developers dont put a bunch of stupid motion gimmicks in every game.

The only thing id really like to use a camera like the eye or kinnect for is a time crisis like game where you have the option of using your furniture as cover, but I havent seen them making any of those, let alone something that actually looks to be of good quality or fun.

[crazyboom]

Im glad there is no camera as the kinect for the xbox one was a major negative to me.

[showtimefolks]

cameras or motion controls are nothing more than Gimmicks

give me a Dual Shock 4 and a awesome game to play

$399 a great price point

[JohnS1313]

I owned the camera for the PS2 and PS3 but I don't really care about using a camera in my games. If a great game comes out that needs a camera then just buy one.

[s8anicslayer]

All these people are bickering about this for nothing because sony would've sold the camera bundled in at 450$ which is still cheaper than the One!

[alb1899]

The problem is that isn't just about you, I know that with a kinect in every console there will be better games for kinect and let me tell you that I and my kids enjoy a lot dance central.

I like conventional controls but to have options wont hurt me. I dint want camera in my iPad but now that is there I use it more than I ever imagine.

[ZBlacktt]

I own a Kinect and also have Dance Central and my teenagers love it. But all that has zero interest to me. I have close to 4000 trophies on the PS3. All done with just a DS3. So I'll never need that camera stuff. That $100 savings in cost over the X1 could buy me two full years of PS Plus. Which would give me around $2000 worth of content. Which is a total win for gamers like me.

[Godmars290]

Depends if motion/camera games ever mature past party and child game phase.

Edit:
Wouldn't mind seeing a few more lightgun games.

Some lightgun games.

*Any* lightgun games...

[clrlite]

Yeah, some proper lightgun games where you can calibrate and don't have need to have that silly reticle on the screen.

Also, I was able to do some massive damage in the Killzone 3 beta with the move.

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

....therefore, if properly implemented it could be a great OPTION for FPS games as well.

[ZBlacktt]

After watching that video. It's very clear that was some really bad players, lol. I mean damn you are just walking around out in the open often.....

I could run through every game as a Infiltrator and get 20+ kills in a row very easy. But anyway, the move was so not needed for the game.

http://i29.photobucket.com/...

[alb1899]

Now that every x1 will have kinect there will be serious games about it because developers will like to try.

Everything is about sells! Money!

[Godmars290]

Besides Child of Eden, what is there that's close to a ligthgun game on Kinect?

Given that Crimson Dragon in no longer a Kinect-only game, the failure of something like Steel Battalion, I seriously doubt your claim.

[LOGICWINS]

I own the Eye, Move, Nav controller, and Sharpshooter. I would have preferred if Sony included the camera in the KZ bundle instead of a second controller.

I understand why they did it though. Most people don't care about Move. I'm sure Shadow Fall supports Move, but its a bit suspect that they didnt mention it. The only rational explanation is that Sony wanted to downplay the importance of the camera since they didnt want consumers to feel like they were being shortchanged by the lack of a camera in the bundle.

[clrlite]

I would love an OPTION to use move in shadow fall, though I wouldn't mind the second controller either.

If people don't think Move can work for FPS, the should watch the video in my above post of me embarrassing people in the KZ3 beta.

[greenpowerz]

Probably very little if Sony had software or camera hardware that were worthy of mass adoption they would include it. But yes the mass adoption angle to game development will be held back when it comes to what little Sony's offerings could bring to the table.

[The_Klank]

This is you just 24 hours ago,

'I seem biased? I'm a xbox fan that talks about xbox in xbox threads/articles either talking about xbox related stuff, giving xbox opinions or trying to correct misinformation about xbox. I guess you think that because I'm not a fan of other consoles? I'm biased because I don't go into other console threads talking about those consoles?'

OT I have the current Move and Eye and it doesn't get much use these days so I'm glad it's not included, If software comes out that impress's me then I'll pick up the new eye.

[greenpowerz]

So you tracked a few articles out of tens of thousands with my comments in them to prove your point? Tell you what you find more than 5 PS only articles I've been in in the last 6 months and I'll give you a cookie LMAO

The article was edited in the platform channel system to get the least exposure trying to hide it. This article is in reality is just as much an XB1 article as it is a PS4 one. LOL

If the topic was the other way around and Xb1 didn't have the camera and Sony did the contributor would have added both Xbox One and PS4 tags/channels.

I thought I did a good job not offending anybody while talking about both console as related in this article.

On topic...
I'm sure there will be watered down ports with basic camera functions from XB1 games for PS4 gamers to take advantage of.

Remember the actual article is talking about XB1 and PS4 and my first comment is what a lot of people think about why Sony decided to sacrifice the camera to lower the price

[moparful99]

@greenpowerz Give it up. Someone exposed you for the troll you are and yet you are still trying to defend your stab at Sony in an article about Sony.. You have no business here considering how little you care about Sony.

[PirateThom]

No, because controlling games with a camera doesn't work, EyeToy showed it and Kinect stamped the confirmation on it.

[LOL_WUT]

Why would a camera that's optional hinder any upcoming games? ;)

[moparful99]

Because there is a specific segment of people on this site that are desperately trying to weaken the PS4's reputation. SO these people will take anything regardless of how unimportant it may be and spin it to fulfill their PS4 hating agendas...

[Kenshin_BATT0USAI]

I would imagine, if it came with the console there would be some background policy in place along the lines of 'you must incorporate the eye/kinect in your game'. Which would not only waste resources and time, but probably ruin an otherwise great experience.

(i.e. In Last of Us, randomly your flashlight will work less effectively, you have to shake your controller to fix it, I don't think this is cool, just annoying, but that's sixaxis for you)

[Lwhit6]

No, games won't suffer. Games use CONTROLLERS not motion control shit.

[B1663r]

All previous cross plat motion control games to become X1 exclusives, confirmed.

[Silly gameAr]

lol X1 can keep them I say.

[XtraTrstrL]

There was an interesting article stating that it probably won't hold back the support of the Eye. It went on to talk about features being used in 3rd party X1 games that include basic Kinect 2 functionality that could be used for the Eye would be ported over for PS4 because it wouldn't add any significant development time, because the groundwork would already be laid out. So, in a way it could be a win-win for Sony, they keep gamers that don't want the Eye happy by lowering the console price by $100, but PS Eye users won't necessarily have to suffer, because of the much easier portability between consoles now. Also, there will definitely be other 1st and 3rd party support that fully utilize the Eye. So, it should still do well regardless.

[Cueil]

the APIs that Microsoft provides for the Kinect 2.0 probably not to easy to get similar functionality on the Eye without some extended work... Dance Central is game that probably will look at doing that though

[Conzul]

No, games won't suffer. Only casual opportunities, maybe.

I had hoped for out-of-game system navigation and stuff to be able to be controlled Kinect-style, but I'll live.

[brianunfried]

Camera games are fun for a little while, the only Move games I play on a regular basis are shooters. FPS games are amazing with the Move and a gun attachment.

I can't imagine the appeal of Kinect since you can't play shooters with it.

[PositiveEmotions]

I actually want the ps4 eye. I didnt care about the ps3 eye but i do care about the ps4 eye and it looks like its gonna be fun because the ds4 has a psmove

[N8]

I agree I will probably get it to for that same reason

[PositiveEmotions]

:) i might get it at launch

[Empire X]

Games would suffer if it was mandatory.

[MWong]

Agreed .... why force it on us?

Why would we suffer they haven't even announced anything for the camera. So why force something on us that doesn't really have any appeal right now?

[Benjammin25]

Yeah, because games without gimmicky camera or motion controls are rubbish right? Tell that to TLOU, probably the greatest game I've ever played. The PS4 will be fine.

[Mounce]

Will games....suffer?....

WILL GAMES SUFFER BECAUSE A WEBCAM WASN'T ADDED?

What the fuck kind of stupid question is that. Of course a fucking camera won't make a god damn VIDEO GAME suffer. Naw, wait. Killzone Shadowfall will TOTALLY suffer, right guys? All PS4 exclusives will CERTAINLY 'Suffer' because PS4's eye won't be in it.

Oooooh noo!~

[Hicken]

The tone of your comment goes quite well with your avatar.

[Mounce]

I love Berserk <3

[TheRealHeisenberg]

Don't need it. Will be interested if camera usage can be seamlessly integrated in cool ways that don't take away from game play. Even at that though, it is still not the $300 USD or less that I was hoping for.

[DivineAssault]

Nope cuz if they want it bad enough, they can buy one for $60

[devwan]

buttons ftw.

[Zardos]

It does hurt PS4 games because now the PS4 Eye will be an extra and not part of the main package that everyone will buy this Holiday. That is the reason WHY the PS3 Eye was not used more, and it will happen again.

[Prime_28]

This. Same goes for the ps move.

[PirateThom]

I fail to see why this is a downside...

[Silly gameAr]

Umm, I have to agree with Thom. Where's the downside to this again? I think some people are just trying so hard to look for something negative to say and just had to settle for "no cam, mulitplats may suffer". It's like some kind of sad joke.

[SonyPS4]

The downside would be no more than a handful of titles supported for a relatively expensive peripheral. It's good that's optional, but at the same time it needs to be pushed more so that more people would actually want the device. It's a difficult business decision, it's a damn if you do and damn if you don't kind of scenario. It's probably best not even bothering with releasing specific-purpose controllers. It's been proven time and again the masses just want to grab the controller and game.

[moparful99]

But how does it hurt us consumers if the camera isn't included? If the Eye fails and goes away it wont' change the core functionality of the PS4 in anyway shape or form.. The only people that will suffer are the ones that actually like and want the EYE which is less than a third of the current PlayStation fanbase...

[gdguide]

The lack of camera will be a HUGE advantage for games because developers won't have a huge company breathing down their necks to graft an inferior control scheme onto games. I feel sorry for X1 developers that will somehow have to integrate motion controls onto some games. It will take focus and resources away from actual game development.

Not having to think about a camera allows developers to focus on what THEY want to do with a game.

Just look at Kinect and PS Move review averages. It's not worth it to force that tech onto this next gen even if it is improved. Most gamers want to relax to play a game. I work hard day in and day out. I don't need to be on my feet to play a game after a long days work. Sorry.

[chasegarcia]

Lack of a camera included is a huge disappointment for me.

[kamisama]

I don't see how it can be a disappointment to anyone when you can just pic up the eye at launch with a ps4 if you like and for everyone that doesn't want an eye they don't have to worry about being forced to pay for something they don't want

[chasegarcia]

Reason=lack of support

It is also not just the motion controls. If included, everyone would have a mic and the ability to video chat.

[TheUndertaker85]

@chasegarcia: The PS4 includes a mic with every system

[kamisama]

With or without the camera included Sony can still demand support for it if they choose and maybe just maybe not everyone wants to video chat I'm sure the people that do will get an eye and everyone is already getting a mic with the ps4

[Petro]

Everybody already does get a mic.

[dazzrazz]

I have a question who the fuck is writing those articles and why is this crap getting approved so easily ?

[Silly gameAr]

Ridiculous.

[Oh_Yeah]

If your going to play a motion game, why not oh Idk go play some sports?

[chasegarcia]

agree, why play games like GTA when you can rob someone outside and get a real prostitute /S

[Smoovekid]

They can make bundles with the camera and if people want it they can buy it separately for $60.

[nix]

well... i do own PS Eye... but i've never used it to full extent. okay.. maybe to run Move. Killzone 3 with Move was simply awesome. i gotta admit to that. i wished UC3 supported Move too though.

[aaron5829]

no... never used any of that stuff...

[Inception]

*Lookin at the title and than looking to my PS1, PS2, & PS3 games collection*

Errrrr...what? -_-

[Smoey]

All of the games that require a camera can suffer for all I care.

[ricochetmg]

WE all know the tripple A games that feature a camera /s

CANT NAME ONE.

[Fireseed]

Yeah because no developer thus far can guarantee that you have it. Would be pretty sweet if I could call out squad commands in Rainbow Six, but to make the voice controls based on a fragmented population is a stupid choice. But if it were to come with it developers could implement it in new and exciting ways... it's this weird thing called "Next-Gen" but a lot of people think "Next-Gen" is slapping a share button on your controller and put more power in your box...

[ZeroX9876]

well, next-gen is pretty much better hardware. it's like saying, let's go next gen with a 10 times better 3d camera, but the same old hardware. that's not next gen. I"m buying an upgrade, that's pretty much it. Same thing for my gaming PC.

the cloud computing Microsoft is talking about, that's a good example, but again should not be forced to use it to be able to play the game. you can add twice the features, but there's a market for each of them and forcing those on the users isn't always the best way to go. what if the voice command doesn't recognize you very well when your surround sound is making too much noise? I would like to see how a speechless person uses those voice commands... hence the reason why optional is always good.

When I'll get the xbox one (probably next year), I'll make sure that the Kinect is well stored in my tv desk, somewhere it doesn't see me at all or hear me. just hoping I won't need it for the main menu...

[Fireseed]

Next gen is new hardware to open up experiences we weren't capable of before. Dead Rising was one of the first truly Next Gen games last generation because the hardware allowed for more characters on screen which was core to it's game play.

And yes the cloud is another very useful piece of next gen technology (even it's really just dedicated servers and that's been on pcs for a LONG time) it allows developers to create worlds in multiplayer that weren't possible before i.e. The Division and Titanfall

A bad example would be Killzone: Shadowfall. "Hey look it's the exact same mechanics from all the years before... but it looks REALLY pretty!!!" Or Knack... "Hey it's a same puzzle platformer beat em-up... but he made up of a LOT of pieces!!!"

And no optional is NOT always good. What if thumbsticks weren't mandatory and consoles came prepackaged with PS1-esque controllers? Developers have to go with the lowest common denominator and assume players DON'T have them because it has to work for everyone, cause as we all know slapping a label of "Requires (Something) to Play" is the kiss of death.

[Petro]

You already get a mic with every PlayStation 4, so calling squad commends is no problem.

[Fireseed]

You missed the point, but at the same point you proved my point.

Sure that's one way to implement it, but most gamers like you have a very linear thought process about games... hence why you're not a game developer. Developers will see the technology and build new and exciting ways to interact with the medium. Guarantee you all that if I told you we have the technology to detect heart beats you'd all think "That's stupid" but a developer will use that tech to further enhance horror games. Hell the guys making "Below" sure found an awesome way to utilize it.

[moparful99]

If people TRULY wanted motion controls and all of the "what if" scenarios it implied for unique games then they would have bought Kinect and move more so then they did.. Look at the wii they forced motion controls, the system sold like crack on a street corner in south central but there is no AAA support outside of first party.. Only first party Nintendo games and Dance games seem to sell well.. So the logical conclusion is that a majority of gamers just wanna relax, controller in hand, and play some games.. Why do we always have to be forcing innovation in terms of how we interact with said games? I'm perfectly content with the way it has been for generations.. You are the minority that craves these types of innovations, doesn't mean the rest of us have to pay up so you can experience them...

[captain_slow82]

perfect for me i didnt want it forced onto me thus giving me a cheaper console to buy wooo

and couple of years down the line if and thats a big IF lots of games can justify the need for the playstation eye camera in LOTS of games i play then i have the option to do so thanks sony for giving gamers options.

[310dodo]

Not at all.
I wont be getting a camera for PS4 unless its confirmed
screen to screen chat while playing games. via...(face time)

[jay2]

PMLS! noooooooooo make them optional or mandatory if need be.

[GaminGuys]

I read this post direct and didn't even know it was on N4G.com it's about time people realised Xbox offers better value to its customer base. Sure they don't listen quick enough, sure they charge but so does Sony as of PS4 and I guarantee you one thing ladies and gents, Microsoft help out way more with personal issues with accounts, billing and game issues than Sony do.

FACT. I own both current Gen consoles and do Sony even have an ambassador program?

People like myself run that program cos we believe we make a difference. What do Sony do? Buy an Xbox One!

[CalvinKlein]

I had both xboxs and all 5 ps systems, ive never had to jump through more hoops to get my credit card info off of a thing than with xbox 360. They removed the thing that let you take you credit card info off and wanted me to call and talk to some clown who doesnt speak english and make me give reasons and explanations, no thanks.

I wrote a pissed letter to them through their website and suddenly they removed my credit card infor for me, didnt make me pay the 20 I owed them to go to silver, and they seemed to put that option back on their website(at least for a while). I still wont be supporting them because all they try and do is squeeze as much money as possible out of you while giving as little as possible in return.

Id much rather pay 400$ for a more powerful console than 500 for a weaker one with a motion camera that I have no desire to use. Not to mention how ps+ costs slightly less and gives me lots of actual good and more recent games for my ps3/vita and ps4 in the future. Live gives you 6 year old halo 3, ac 2 and crappy fable 3....ohh what generosity.

[GaminGuys]

Like anything, I guess it's down to what you actually want from a console. I know what you mean about the free games though, but I like the skype and dash functions personally.

[GaminGuys]

posted it 2 x sorry server issue

[MASTER_RAIDEN]

game companies need to understand that niche peripherals like cameras and motion controls are never going to be used on a regular basis by the masses. kinect had extremely impressive sales at the beginning of its life, but id bet that 90% of kinect owners have not used it with an actual game in months since they've purchased it. i have several friends who own kinect, and not a single one of them have used the peripheral in moths. thats not a statistic-- its real life.

all these gaming "journalists" just need to stop with this question. playstation games will NOT suffer because of a loss of a camera. as a matter of fact, i would much rather have a headset and rechargeable battery pack come with my console instead of a camera. even at a 100$ higher price point, MS is still cutting corners while using their gimicky camera as justification. i have a 300$ set of headphones that ill be using with my PS4 because it supports standard 3.5mm headset ends, while MS is still forcing us all to buy their proprietary headsets at an EXTRA COST. MS would happily take gaming a few steps backward in time if it made them money.

[D-riders]

This is dumb and I think MS is dumb for not doing it again. last generation the xbox was cheaper that the ps3 because it was ala-carte, meaning yo can upgrade and have a choice if you wanted to. You could use batteries, if you felt like it. Camera option was available, larger hard drives , hell even hd-dvd was available. Now Sony is wrong for giving you an option.

[ZeroX9876]

simple, every time a third party company design a non-exclusive game that has kinect functions (like voice commands, gestures recognition, etc.), they can put it as OPTIONAL on the PS4. Because I think one thing Devs learned about motion control, voice commands and such is that not everyone wants to use it, so OPTIONAL is the key here.

Like skyward sword and donkey kong country returns would have been great even if the motion controls wasn't forced upon the users. My aunt is 52 years old and she played every zelda game to date (even the GB/GBA/DS ones!) except 1 zelda game that she watched me and my cousin complete together, and it was Skyward sword. she didn't like the motions, not the game.

As always, let's thank Sony for giving us options, like Nintendo is doing right now with Wii U(motion and with a bit more traditional controller setup). Not saying the Xbox one will suck because of it either, having additional features isn't (in most cases) a bad thing.

[sAVAge_bEaST]

No, games will not suffer,,.. Gimmicks may.†

Dice - official on gimmicks,.
http://www.polygon.com/2013...

[sAVAge_bEaST]

"Battlefield 4 won't include motion control support because the mechanics won't make the game better, despite "people throwing money" at developer DICE to include them, according to executive producer Patrick Bach.

Speaking with Edge Online, Bach said integrating next-generation motion control peripherals with the latest installment of its military shooter franchise is not in the plans. Bach suggested that other companies have been offering DICE compensation to provide support for "quirky control[s]" in Battlefield 4.

"We are not interested in things that don't make the game better," Bach said. "There are a lot of gimmicks — people throwing money at us — ‘can you implement support for this quirky control thing'. No, it doesn't make the game better."

Bach added that despite DICE's openness to new, innovative technology, there is "no point" in adding support for something that ultimately does not improve the game experience.

"Touch screens used to be a gimmick, because no-one could get it to work until iPhone came out and used it right," he said. "It adds to the experience, and now everyone is doing it. To us it's the same with motion control and perceptual gaming in general; if it adds, great. If it's a gimmick, ignore it."

[mmj]

Who the hell wants a camera anyway? I'd buy a Wii if I wanted to control games using my penis.

[Lucreto]

I am glad it is optional.

It should be like if you don't have the camera you get that, that and that. If you have the camera you get addition features you would not normally get.

[Fakdafakinfakerz]

Someone is trying to wash my brain... sorry, it doesn't work... still don't give a sh*t about the camera and motion controls.

[ASBO-5]

Of course not, stop trying to start rumors.

[Davuskus]

This isn't true, why do people continue to talk about this rubbish? Do some research... http://n4g.com/news/1291021...

[SpinalRemains138]

Will the games suffer? What the hell?

I wasn't aware the camera has separate power inducing specs. I thought it was just a peripheral that a majority weren't interested in.

Why would anyone in their right mind favor a peripheral forced into the device if they are not interested in it?

This is the Ones problem. MS is telling the customers what they want. But there's one small detail. We don't want it.

We prefer controllers and AAA games. That is why we buy consoles to begin with.

[karl]

i u want it u just need to buy it.. whats the big deal?

whoever wrote this article is exaggerating

[Atomicjuicer]

Motion gaming without camera is best - like wii.

Don't want this net camera to spy

[BABY-JEDI]

Oooooh the torture of not having a camera. All those sleepless nights of knowing that that developers cannot use a camera (in general). How many games i have which uses a camera? 1. Sing star which I don't use a camera for. Point being. I don't want a camera...
: P

[josephayal]

im moar happy

[Wulfstan]

Who cares about a stupid camera. That shit isn't necessary for any game.

[Enigma_2099]

Man, they are trying to find ANYTHING to put the screws to Sony right now, aren't they?

[airgangstarr]

im never gonna jump around my livingroom allday maybe a quick fighting game or something but its jus not needed they way xbox rams it down ur throat we dont want it it should be a option.. i dont care how good it works i dont think they realize alot of people dont play in there living room so besides voice gestures what good is it u could use the headset for voice features or like ps4 did an added a mic to the controller what do u need this thing for someone please tell me

[CalvinKlein]

The fact that it doesnt have the stupid camera with it is one of the reasons why I want the ps4 so badly, I dont have to worry about a bunch of stupid motion gimmicks in every game I play. If people want that lame stuff they can choose to buy it separately.

[Jaqen_Hghar]

Not for a man because a man will be getting the camera with his PS4 KZ launch day bundle from Amazon.

[TheUndertaker85]

Look, this misconception really needs to stop.

If Sony included the camera with every system, what says that it'd have to be plugged into the PS4 to use the system? Nothing.

If Sony included the camera with every system, what says it'd be mandatory for all games? Nothing. Microsoft isn't even forcing that far.

What says that Sony is looking to drop controllers with games that use the camera? Nothing. Very few Sony titles do that. Killzone, inFamous, LBP Karting, Sorcery, EyePet & Friends, and many other titles don't drop a controller when they use the Eye.

See where I'm going with this? Many here are acting like:

1) Sony'd require the new PS4 camera to be plugged into the system to use it if included. Nothing has shown Sony taking that approach.

2) Sony'd require all games to use the new camera, again something that hasn't even been shown by either MS or Sony to be true.

3) That if the camera is used it instantly means no controller. Sure some titles might do that but there's a reason the Move exists. Sony realizes that players need that control. MS seems to have taken in that message better with Kinect 2.0 even.

The most having a camera in the package would do is reassure developers that everybody with the system has one. That COULD mean better support but I don't think games will suffer without it. Out of anything the new PS4 camera adoption and uses for it could.

[ethomaz]

How can a $20-30 camera reduce $100 in a console? Makes no sense to me.

[cunnilumpkin]

quite the opposite in fact

devs won't be forced to think about some terrible gimmick and include some idiotic sequences that include it

hopefully sony does not do that with the stupid touch pad, and leave that to indie/flash/free to play iphone type games

when I sit down to game, I want a traditional experience, I can care less about the gimmicks

and now, with a much more powerful system than ps3/360, we can finally see some first party games that are not covered in jaggies, screen tearing, low res textures and all that junk that was in EVERY game last gen

my hope it that sony implements a policy that ALL DEVS must create games with at LEAST 4x msaa and v-sync!

[Phils_Libra]

Motion control games will suffer, but that's a good thing IMO. And if motion control games are so important, then why didn't Microsoft show off a single Kinect-only game at both their event and E3 presentation? Xbox One would be better off without the required Kinect and a $399 price tag.

[hazelamy]

those dance games might suffer, but other games, not so much.

[level 360]

Nearly bought one for GranTurismo 5 out of curiosity just to have a look-see about head-tracking.

And also maybe could give that extra improvement in peripheral vision and check if it's not just a gimmick.

In the end, thought don't really need it and don't want to spend extra.
Believe my gaming never suffered without the PS Eye camera although some lingering curiosity about head-tracking remains.

[ala_767]

Whats the big deal! I never used Eyetoy in ps2 or ps3.... Doesn't bother me at all

[jXales]

After a hard days work all I want to do is sit down unwind and game!

I don't want to converse with my console and I sure as hell don't want to flail my arms around like a moron to be able to enjoy gAming.

I want to sit on my couch as static a possible and be able to do awesome stuff with the press of a button.

With this in mind, why would I want a camera forced console? Please deliberate..

[SaveFerris]

RYSE was meant to be a Kinect game but then it wasn't. Perhaps there will be Kinect-only games such as Kinect Sports but I don't recall Titanfall or Dead Rising 3 having Kinect features. Also no mention of the 'You are the controller' by MS. Kinect 2 appears to be an integral part of the console, yet it is not mandatory for a majority of the games on the system. Is it just to change the tv channel and skype?

I'm happy to be able to choose if I want the camera or not. I'm curious about Until Dawn for the PS3 though.

[aaronobst]

Sony made the right decision here, I think they're aware nobody wants this motion garbage

[Zephyrus_808]

No. The answer is no.

[USMC_POLICE]

When the six axis came out and call of duty 3 used it I thought it was cool the first few times to flack my controller to rifle-butt but then I got annoyed by it.

[gamer7804]

Without it bundled in, games utilizing it will be fairly uncommon.

[Gameatholon]

I am sorry, but did I miss something? When was any camera the end all, be all of gaming?

[Shad0wRunner]

Hello no, games wont suffer!

If you buy a game that requires the PS Eye...then common sense says that youre gonna need to buy the friggin camera, too. DUHHH

[kewlkat007]

Sony has no confidence in the PS eye, Gamers last gen, didn't as well.

IMO, the devs won't either. No, it will not influence the games.

It will not be used much. If it was part of the package then the devs would be like, "hey why not, everyone has one, it's part of the console."

[Gekko36]

Simple really, with all users having a kinect means common motion and voice controls can be implemented on a games, those can be made optional for gobshite gamers but on the whole makes the XBOX one appeal to a larger audience.

Core gamers are important but not as important as they think they are. But with the inclusion of the kinect with every console they can be seduced with games using large scale motion or some games with subtle motion and voice. Time will tell.

As for PS4, they have made a mistake by not including it. Whether is it for a cheaper price or not, or because sony are in deep shit financially I don't know but motion will make a big difference.

Core gamers will disagree and that's brilliant, but like I said core gamers aren't really that important in the long run.

[unicron7]

Uh, no. I like having choices as a consumer.