Mark Cerny Explains Why The Cell Processor Was Not Included In The PS4

Mark Cerny explains how he invested his entire 2007 holiday in to researching x86's 30 year old history.

[first1NFANTRY]

Cerny for president!

[Timesplitter14]

I trust Cerny on every decision he has made.

Just try to imagine Cerny being a hypocrite or an asshole. It's literally impossible

[ThatCanadianGuy514]

Cerny Computer Entertainment.

It's got a nice ring to it.
Agreed tho, i trust cerny entirely with his PS4 decisions.This guy knows his stuff.

[MWong]

I gotta agree, he looks too calm to be aggressive like that.

The Cell was/is an impressive piece of hardware, the development time & costs are too great. By making the Cell more powerfull, it would still be difficult to develop for at times.

[VanguardOfCalamity]

great vid - very insightful .. nice to know that learning from one's mistakes and the use of reason and logic are not dead... greatness may truly await

[MajorLazer]

I have total faith in the Cerny. That guy is just so calm and peaceful and he knows his s**t, which gives further confirmation the PS4 will be perhaps the most epic videogame launch of all time

[gaffyh]

Thing with Cerny is, because he is a developer, he actually knows what he is talking about, and it shows. The whole thing with MS proved that execs should not talk about the console unless they actually KNOW, and it was clear that they know nothing.

[assdan]

I was a little creeped out by Cerny at first, but he's becoming more and more awesome. They really made a great console. Anyways, let me explain why the Cell isn't in PS4. It's theoretically really strong, but sucks in consoles. I don't understand why they put a server CPU in a gaming console.

[Godlovesgamers]

It's actually quite easy, we've all been/are hypocrites and have all been a-holes at one time or another.

[RBdrift]

Cerny is an awesome nice guy but he could totally pull off an evil mastermind Bond villain.

[AsimLeonheart]

The guy is just so calm, honest and straightforward in everything he says. That is what makes him so charismatic and great! I would really like to get to know a person like him personally.

[Consoldtobots]

its gonna be interesting to say the least to see what naughty dog does with a 1000gbs eDRAM.

[SheenuTheLegend]

lol, wherever he stands, we will vote for him...
the guy is a genius

[Mr Tretton]

ERMAGHERD I LERK CERNY PERSTERSHERN

[mediate-this]

ahh nooo

[Gimmemorebubblez]

When Kuturagi resigned Sony sold their rights to use the CELL to Toshiba and from then on it was evident the CELL wasn't going to be used again on a Playstation console.

[Persistantthug]

Are you aware that Sony bought those Cell fabs back?

[Gimmemorebubblez]

They have the fabs and rights to the existing CELL processor used in the Ps3, they sold all future uses or development of the CELL to Toshiba.

[elhebbo16]

I wonder... what the hell is gonna toshiba do with the cell now?

[Consoldtobots]

they should make their own console and show the world what a mature cell design can do?

[dedicatedtogamers]

I'm glad Sony has learned a bit of humility over the last several years. They're checking all the right boxes with gamers, with developers, with indies, even with people who hated the Dualshock 3 (they made massive improvements to the DS4).

[SpitFireAce85]

Know all we need is Microsoft to do the same

[Hicken]

Good luck with that.

[araman]

No we don't. Gaming doesn't *need* a 3rd console.

[elhebbo16]

@araman it does if you want competition. competition= better games.

[araman]

I agree with the competition aspect, but MS doesn't need to be the one competing. Another could step in or Nintendo could push to get closer to the real next gen level. There's lots of potential outcomes, and a 3rd console doesn't need to be one of them. Look what happened to Sega during the PSX/N64/Saturn gen.

[Consoldtobots]

MS competes with its checkbook not with their talent(or lack thereof).

[YNWA96]

dedicatedtogamers, well said. Its all about games, which 'true gamers' claim. The disdain for anything Xbox by some people here is disgusting. Competition in the console market is only ever a positive for all. I do believe Sony went on a major Ego trip with PS3, but slowly they changed and for the better as we can see now. MS now in that same boat, but still there is great games and I am happy with the other features available. As much as I love playing games, I am really excited about the Skype feature, as I live far away from most of my family, and it will be better for me than holding an ipad which gets hot and heavy. There are many people like me and will love these features just as much. The time for this stupid fanboy crap has to stop, both sides, its very immature and futile. Heres to the future....

[iceman06]

I can agree...accept for the "major Ego trip". That has been blown so far out of proportion that it's ridiculous at this point. That was one man that got caught up in some PR hyperbole...(get a second job, blah blah blah). It wasn't like they treated consumers like crap. They released the console at a huge loss (over $130) because they believed in everything that PS3 had to offer at launch (de facto Blu-ray player, changeable HDD, network adaptor, etc.) All things that drove the price of an Xbox up. No, it wasn't cheap. But, the value (per cost of feature) was there.
As for the console wars, it's just the nature of the beast. Competition breeds competition..."winners and losers"...fans...fanatics ...and ultimately fanboys. Both consoles offer something for gamers...enjoy your choice and game on!!!

[YNWA96]

I hear ya iceman... I loved PS2, but got 360 because it was out earlier... Was looking forward to PS3, but man, the price blew me away, then from the start it was obvious games were going to be on short supply, so I ended up waiting a couple of years. The bluray thing bothered me too. I knew after a couple of years they would be dirt cheap anyway so that was not a factor for me. It turned out to be an excellent console, but the early years were more about getting bluray into people's homes rather than games. Turned out well, but priorities were wrong at first I think.

[karl]

it was great hearing him say that they had the wrong attitude with third party developers with the ps3

and the hole questionary they send to third party devs...

and how they took that feedback..

ive always trusted sony but i feel soo secure with this guys holding the reins of the ps4

[mmofanatic]

Yeah, I'm not a fanboy but the whole vid was very humble in tone and I really like how they listen to the actual developers.

[staticdash22]

Same here, but I'm thinking it was also the amount of firings and company shake ups after the PS3 launch. They probably looked back to the "work two jobs to afford a ps3" comments and the overall vibe in 2006, and saw it as unnecessary. I'm thinking the ax probably came hard on the marketing team, and in the hardware team as well.

[iceman06]

As a Japanese company, it was probably more of an honor thing. I know...sounds strange. But, in Japanese business culture it is not unheard of for higher ups to demote themselves when goals aren't met. Restructuring came because there were divisions that were just plain unsuccessful (mostly computers, cameras, and TV's). They were impacting the bottom line. Add to that, the fact that the PS3 wasn't selling like they forecast.

[James-GAMES]

am the only here that prefers the dualshock 3 over 360 controller? I thought the dual shock was already an outstanding controller and it looks like it be even better on the ps4.

[Lovable]

Th3 pOWA Of th3 c33L!!!

[JsonHenry]

^^ hahahaha, I remember those posts half a decade back. I am so happy Sony learned their lesson after that whole CELL fiasco. It doesn't matter how great a piece of hardware is. If it is so "exotic" that it costs a significant amount of time and money to dev for compared to the competitor it is wasted hardware. This time around Sony went straight forward and powerful from the start. Hopefully they take the inevitable success of the PS4 and realize why it was so successful and never make a CELL mistake again.

[cee773]

now its the POWa of the clouds lmao

cris cross

#inmypetergriffin voice

[JsonHenry]

^^LOL! I cloud computing IS an awesome thing. But no where near able due to the pathetic state of broadband internet to provide what MS has promised and touted.

ZeH poWA of dA clowdsz!!!!!!!

[blackstrr411]

Cell is shit. Sony knows that now

[ybadr]

Cell is what ? sometimes people's ignorance makes me sick ...

[Consoldtobots]

personally I'm not sure I agree with the lunchline philosophy for developers. WHERE is their responsibility to look ahead and rework their old tired engines for the new technology of the day?
WHY is all that burden on the console maker to do backflips to make their lazy coding still work on new technology?

[Dir_en_grey]

No, the Cell architecture was AMAZING.
Just look at the quality of late PS3 exclusives.

It definitely gave out more power than other hardware at equal price point.

Only thing was developers didn't want to/can't adapt to coding for it since it does take up resources for coders to learn new stuff.
And because of that most 3rd party companies had to use middle-ware so they can still code with what they know (for windows) and use the middle-ware to do most of the transferring job for it.
Almost all 3rd party companies will use old middle-ware for as long as they can, because it does cost money to buy or update middle-ware even when it's a in-house one. Anyway can't really blame them because of the situation, cuz they still make money with mediocre or poorly ported games even.

If coding for the cell architecture was adapted by all developers, consumer would benefit like they did when dvd switched to blu-rays, ei we would get more for what we paid for.
But Microsoft pretty much forced Sony out of that option. It's why I don't like Microsoft, they do nothing for the advance of technology, they don't invest in the development of anything except for their crappy Windows OS.
There's stuff like Kinect and Skype, well MS just bought them up; and MS also bought many more other developing tech companies just to let it sit so the competition can't use them, halting possibility of advancement and development entirely.

It's also why I support Sony, because they always try to develop better tech to bring to their customers. Not all new tech catches on due to higher cost and late adaptation though.
It's a shame, but the situation couldn't be helped with Cell.

[theWB27]

So you blame Microsoft for developers having a crappy time using a piece of hardware they weren't familiar with and most didn't even want to learn? It wasn't an advancement if majority didn't like it.

So Microsoft should have adopted the CELL..for what? It obviously wasn't the end all be all since Cell talk has died down considerably across all fronts, not just games. They should jumped on that wagon and make developers learn something they didn't want to. Then what would the quality of games have been?

Sony made a mistake with Cell. Simple as that. It cost too much to develop for and companies shouldn't have had to spend the money to learn it when, obviously with the PS4, you can make a powerful machine with familiar architecture.

That's a new one...you blame Microsoft for developers having a crappy time with the Cell and Microsoft should have used it even though they had no part in development. DvD still outsells Blu ray btw...

[Dir_en_grey]

@theWB27
No, I said the situation couldn't be helped.

But MS's whole plan when entering the gaming market was to bring windows brand into the OS and development kits of consoles. They made a good decision that benefited them which is to sell you a cheap PC cuz it's cheaper to built and costs less to develop (original xbox), where any other console before xbox had it's own unique architecture.

It's all business decisions to make money, but the result doesn't necessarily benefit the customer at the end. Sure it's cheaper, but some others might prefer newer technology. Who's to say what is "correct".
It's a give and take situation and it is what it is. I am just saying I prefer the advancement of technology instead of rebranding and sell you old tech, and some times even stopping new tech just to crumple your opponent.

I wasn't talking just about Microsoft and Sony btw, Microsoft does it in every department of theirs, it's how they run their business.

[gamer2013]

If the Cell was so amazing then the PS4 would have a significantly beefed up version of it.

What's this "quality" you take about? Its silly. Power differences between the two consoles were miniscule at best. It all came down to the developer, that's all.

I'd also like to add that out of all the "graphically superior" games that Sony fan boys like to boast about not one of them is graphically consistent! It's all smoke and mirrors due to the limits of the hardware. A great example of this GT5. It looks great in some places and pretty mediocre in others. The graphical quality of the cars also varied, which a lot of people complained about.

[Dir_en_grey]

@TwistedReality
Sounds like you don't know anything about programing. It's ok.
Read my first post again, google anything you don't understand in it, then talk.
Because the questions you asked is already answered in it.

[Baka-akaB]

Some people refuse to understand what's plainly written in front of them . Everyone acknowledge the cell was amazing , hardware wise .

It was just too out there for most devs to adopt it universally .

Had it been a success for the pc world , and massively adopted , then we would have seen a shift . But obviously it was unlikely to happen and didnt happen .

[Umb]

The best technology may never see the light of day if the cost factor and ROI is not achieved within certain time-frames. This is corporate mentality - maximise profit minimise cost. Some companies adhere to the process more than others.

If Cell was developed 30 years ago or had a high adoption rate early in its life then we as the consumers would have seen the benefits.

New technology is always tricky to get your head around it and I believe the x86 was no different when it was first released all those years ago.

[andibandit]

@DIR_En_Grey

"If coding for the cell architecture was adapted by all developers, consumer would benefit like they did when dvd switched to blu-rays, ei we would get more for what we paid for.
But Microsoft pretty much forced Sony out of that option."

what option exactly??

[sAVAge_bEaST]

The Cell was Complicated. -get it right.

[ZBlacktt]

http://phys.org/news1491925...

http://blog.tmcnet.com/blog...

http://blog.us.playstation....

http://www.computerworld.co...

http://www.japanator.com/ci...

http://i29.photobucket.com/...

http://i29.photobucket.com/...

http://i29.photobucket.com/...

[ZBlacktt]

A disagree with facts, lol. You are a sad lonely person in real life.

[Salooh]

Pure blackness. It looks soo beautiful. Love it >.< . I would kill my self if i saw this in 2007. I hardly managed to buy one , it was soo cool when it's released. People always shocked when they know i have a ps3 in that time. Good old times T_T ..

[ZBlacktt]

If people would take the time to look. You'd see how the PS3 is a world used super computer. From Space to the bottom of the earths oceans. To the human brain, to medical research to the US military. They've all used a PS3.

http://www.unh.edu/news/cj_...

http://www.sonyinsider.com/...

http://www.aboutai.com/2008...

http://www.geeks3d.com/2009...

http://www.win.tue.nl/~bdew...

[RedHawkX]

perfect cell would like a word with you.

[elhebbo16]

when it comes to video development yea kinda (at first). but the architecture of the PS3 cell was pretty fucking advance for its time.

[OC_MurphysLaw]

It was a very smart move for Sony to get away from their cell processor...it just wasn't a good course for the company.

[mxrider2199]

i agree that it wasnt money wise but as for technology wise could you imagine a beefier cell with this much ram the things that could be possible if devs were up to the task of actually using the cell it would be insane

[elhebbo16]

it would have bin cool to see what first party devs can do with a beefier cell, but sony played it safe.

[hairy]

The cell Obviously was not shit, Naughty dog has created some games that couldn't be acheivable on xbox's 2005 pc type hardware. lazy developers looking for multiplatform money and finding it easier to port shitty pc graphics onto 360's shit hardware, look at sony's exclusives and it's easy to see. the cell was and is still amazing

[aquamala]

blaming the developers again huh? how is it not a console maker's job to attract developers and make their jobs easy?

and ND's games look good because of ND, not because of how powerful Cell is.

[a_bro]

"ND's games look good because of ND, not because of how powerful Cell is"

correction, their games look good because they mastered the cell processor. Other Devs didnt. the Cell processor is a very powerful chip if programmed for correctly.

developers didnt wanted to #dealwithit. hence, why we're back on x86 hardware.

[thebudgetgamer]

A good craftsman does not blame his tools.

[Salooh]

Didn't you saw cerny show ?. He said they could have made a loooooot more stronger console then the ps4 but they choose to put the easy stuff because only sony studios will use that power. Easy to develop means faster/easier/cheaper development . Easier development lead to better games instead of limiting it to small number of developers. No more excuses from developers ..

[SpinalRemains138]

So it's not ok to blame developers when the game sucks, but we can applaud ND when their games are good?

Yeah that makes sense. Developers are now pitching coaches.

[elhebbo16]

@a_bro and the reason they didnt want to "deal with it" was because they already had a lot on there plate. a new generation just started and people were anticipating a new level of graphic fidelity so there was a lot of pressure, not to mention the deadlines that publishers put up. Sony was wrong for not supporting there third party devs. but thank god that not only they 180'd but went beyond that and asked what they wanted for the system.

[joeorc]

"developers didnt wanted to #dealwithit. hence, why we're back on x86 hardware."

the reason why were back @x86 is because the design Principle's of the new x86 SOC's for embedded computer processor's took design principles of a Hybrid core CPU/GPU design chip just like the Cell. But since the Majority of Chip production is Arm or x86 instead of Power Based Processor's it would be far cheaper to go with x86. As a Matter of fact the Experience that the Teams gained with the development for the Cell, will have quite the leg up on the New PS4 System on a Chip. as a Matter of Fact Mark Cerny already went into development use of such experience with the Cell's development, Techniques being used on the PS4's System On a Chip called "SPURS" DO YOU KNOW WHAT THAT IS AND WHY ITS CALLED "SPURS" ?

HERE IS A HINT:

“Heterogeneous Processors, Hybrid Systems and Big Data”

http://comsoc052412.eventbr...

You may Ask what has that got to do with the PS4, well here is a further Hint:

http://www.google.com/url?s...

If you have not figured it out , is the core principle and foundation of what the Cell processor type is has been included into many processor's of not just power design based such as the Cell, but Also Arm Holding's Cortex designs for example, or Intel and AMD OR NVIDIA's very Own System on a chip.

Sony could choose a number of SOC's now and the experience they gained from development for the Cell still would not have gone to waste. there is a very core reason Sony did not have to Go with Cell Anymore because the majority of SOC's are already Mimic'ing the very foundation principle of what the Cell design was made for.

Instead of STI: ie- Sony,Toshiba,IBM Using a HYBRID SOC design such as the Cell being the only one's putting such a SOC chip for embedded computing for Mass market computer entertainment with such a Hybrid CPU/GPGPU SOC. for Game console's. Now pretty much every SOC chip production companies that made and have designed such CPU/GPGPU hybrid core chips are doing such, Now Sony can choose Arm, X86 or Power. and Sony went with x86 because many 3rd party already have extensive experience with x86. but on the same token, the experienced gained with the Cell can be used to design new techniques to be used on those very x86 SOC's that are in the PS4 and xboxone and Nintendo WiiU.

that is what many people in this thread is Missing, just because the Cell is not being used does not meant the experience or its development techniques that sony gained from the Cell are of no use. as a matter of fact once again i ask many in this thread to read the above document's

Now do you see why Sony did not use the Cell because they did not need to, they get the benefits of the Cell without having to go proprietary means.

once again you can thank Mark Cerny for this and his team.

[Whitey2k]

i dunno every company was getting used to devloping on Cell Processor they could of used the Cell New and improved and have like 32 or maybe 40 spu's and the only main problem for the devs was the Gpu and The Ram they could of used i dunno 8gig of Gddr5 Ram linked with the Cell Processor

[Zool 08]

@ Whitey, that would be something.

[Destrania]

I think if a PS5 ever comes, it may have the Cell 2.0

[Baka-akaB]

No way , Sony got rid/ is getting rid of their cell factories , and the pc world wont adopt the cell .
Most gaming development steems from pc development , so as long as one architecture is too different from it , it will have issues

[Baka-akaB]

Getting used to it is only half the issue . It's still extra work that could be used elsewhere . And unless more engine were truly envisioned with it in mind , we'd see the same issues and divide than seen with UE3 early titles . With the new games and features , maybe the divide would be even bigger , as major publishers wont spend a lot of extra fund to achieve an identical results for their blockbuster titles .

[fsfsxii]

I think IBM stopped manufacturing the Cell chips.

[blink-182]

I can't think of many people who would actually sacrifice their entire holiday to solely revolve it around learning about the future of gaming. Not to say that nobody else can do it, but the passion Cerney has makes me that much more comfortable about Playstations future. Microsoft could definitely learn from this type of attitude, though we all know what they're priorities are.

[Whitey2k]

either way im happy he made that choice that means no more shoddy ports

[Livecustoms]

Microsoft need someone like cerny ! Idiots like Don Mattrik think there selling a media hub product lol

[MassOnesumis]

I think thats point.

[sAVAge_bEaST]

They are.

[hairy]

ND's games look so good because they have become comfortable with the hardware, yes i beleive it was a mistake to make it so complicated in the first place, but Konami didn't have a problem either cause MGS4 still looks amazing.
ok, so yes, I am blaming the developers again.

[wolokowoh]

Both were exclusive. Both had teams that were given a great deal of time to finish the projects and and high budgets. If you have the time to get people used to it, those people could use it. It took a while but the results were there. Just compare Madden 08 to Madden 11. The series that had the shortest development time of nearly any game went from looking like crap on PS3 in comparison the 360 version to being as good as and better in some ways than the 360 version. Getting good at it takes time and that means either not releasing the game on schedule or taking what you learned and building on it each game. It why Uncharted was released in late 2007 not 2006

[Xer0_SiN]

obviously sony used x86 to simplify game development for the game designers. only the a very few (pronounced elite) could harness the cells true potential. cell technology was just too advanced for its time. maybe down the line they can reintroduce it, since developers already had a taste for it and wont be behind the learning curve at that time.

[GDDR6_2014]

With the direction ps4 is going Sony pretty much admitted Cell was a mistake

[iceman06]

From a 3rd party development perspective...YES. From a technology perspective...NO. Remember, it was DEVELOPERS that asked for something simpler. Sony was just trying to push the boundaries a bit too far and a bit too soon.
Basically, Sony thought that they would have the same type of console uptake as the PS2. That would drive developers that HAVE to take some time to master the Cell because they would have to service the consumer. However with the late and slow start, the tides turned toward MS and Sony was left scrambling to teach 3rd parties how to get the most out of the Cell in the least time.

[o-Sunny-o]

Kaz has Mark Cerny as his right arm. Shuhei Yoshida as his left arm. I'll be Kazs chair to use and sit on my back. ^~^

[sAVAge_bEaST]

It would be cooler to form like voltron.

[Hicken]

And I'll form the head!

[n4g_someone]

Now that's a good one, lol.

No offense to o-sunny-o.

[Gondee]

People still seem to think the cell is "super powerful". Its old technology that has been outpaced by x86. It would be far to expensive to replicate the complexity of modern x86 processors just for one console.

[FightFans]

Mark Cerny is a legend.

[Lwhit6]

Cerny's the kinda dude that you could just sit back, have a nice conversation about life and drink an espresso with.

[danthebios]

Ps3 will forever be a unique game console because of the cell Processor and the first to use blu ray:).

[devwan]

I think once Mark and the other musketeers have finished with ps5 he should sit down and write a book covering everything in his presentation in much more detail.

[NoonEEE]

WOOOOO! Cerny! I'm loving how Knack looks kinda like Crash Bandicoot

[kenshiro100]

I like this guy. Very humble and straight to the point.

[SweetIvy]

Awesome presentation!

[Dagobert]

I can actually listen to what this guy says, and he seems to know what he's talking about. John Carmack on the other hand is a huge leaking twat.

[Modestmex]

hes awesome! but what if he was working for microsoft would he still be awesome or what? fanbois smh.

[hairy]

If he was working for MS with his background, and being so open to discussion he'd probably have convinced me that drm was great and the cloud is amazing. I'm just glad he's on the good side :)

[thetorontokid]

The PS4 is Cernyfied!!!!! ;-)

[frostypants]

"And in 2007 they also began a post modern analysis of PlayStation 3"

It's called a POST MORTEM analysis. Jesus tapdancing Christ, FailingBolt...can you tools write one goddamn article without making embarrassing grammatical/linguistic mistakes? "Post modern" analysis? Really???