Sony Sacrificed the PS4 Camera to Beat Microsoft on Price

IGN:When Sony announced that PlayStation 4 would be priced at $399 to an uproar of applause from the audience at its E3 press conference, it secured a critical edge over the Xbox One. But the advantage came at a cost: the PlayStation 4 camera. According to multiple sources, in the months leading up to E3, Sony nixed plans to include the camera add-on with every system and shave $100 off it's originally planned price of $499. Most importantly, it did so quietly, informing its retail partners only of the removal of the camera, not specifying the lower price so as not to tip its hand to Microsoft.

[JoGam]

I wouldn't call it a sacrifice, but instead Sony gave us more options.

[Abash]

It was a great move. When launching a console you have to consider the entry point, and for a brand new, powerful console $400 is the sweet spot for price.

Sony only cares about more people being able to get a PS4 at their price

[blitz0623]

It's not a sacrifice unless people actually wanted the camera to be forced or bundled. It was common sense on their part and obviously it paid off.

[darthv72]

is the ones putting this all together then they would know exactly how much it all costs and could potentially include the camera at little to no additional cost.

MS has to outsource their production of the xb1 so that has some bearing on the overall cost of their system. Not just the inclusion of the kinect camera.

I would like sony to reconsider and make their camera part of the package. If sold by itself, it wont have the same impact as something that is included by default. it would not get the same amount of support as something that is included by default. it would be an after thought by many consumers and only apply to the games specifically for it instead of the little nuances that could be implemented into every game or app released for the platform.

I want to see cameras supported more this gen and to do that then there has to be a common ground among platforms. Wii-u has a camera, xb1 has a camera and the ps4 has a camera but the later of the 3 does not have it by default.

sony, please reconsider as it will only add more value to the already great price point of the ps4.

[kreate]

Agreed w blitz. Nobody wants a camera. Not even the kinect,
When its forced on u. So its not a sacrifice.

I have a kinect installed on my 360.
It sucks. I only got it to give the device a fair try before making conclusions.

[abzdine]

i will call it the following:

"Sony gives a choice to gamers".

PS4 ftw

[solidjun5]

"sony, please reconsider as it will only add more value to the already great price point of the ps4."

Well you can just buy it. I don't think a camera is needed to play videogames. You mentioned Wii U but does Wii U have any games where the camera is such an important and integral part of the package that without it, the game wouldn't be that great? I don't think so.

[Diver]

When has a launch PS console ever shipped with a camera? When has it ever been required to operate a base console?

Sorry worthless ign ms defenders. No precedent for what you are trying to spin.

[gedapeleda]

It may be a sacrifice but I don't know if it's a good one. One thing good about xbone is that everyone will have a kinect so devs could implement some nice features. But we'll have to wait a bit for that.

[darthv72]

"When has a launch PS console ever shipped with a camera?"

Nintendo never launched a system with a camera until the DSi. Then it wasnt until the wii-u for their console. All that time up to that point they didnt release a camera as part of the package.

there has to be a first at some point. sony may not have in the past but they could make a change and do it now. Why is that so hard to accept?

yes i can buy it by itself and i will. i just feel if they included it as part of the standard pack that it would be more guaranteed of support unlike being treated like an after thought.

Sorry if i prefer to see things move forward with the inclusion of conveniences...even something like a camera.

[BISHOP-BRASIL]

Darth, you are wrong twice, in both your comments...

First, you don't know what the actual price to make the camera is, so how can you assume they could put it in there for free to little difference in price? In fact the article is saying exactly otherwise, they got rid of it to cut 100 bucks, despite not outsourcing.

Second, you forgot the Wii. Wii had a camera on day one and an IR camera none the less. It's called Wiimote! Yup, it has a camera in there, it's just being used backwards, to track to little LEDs on sensor bar instead of you, so you're shooting instead of being filmed. Someone had to be the first, and it did, it was Ninty.

And, on a closing point, you and I must have really diverging opinion in what is a convenience. For instance, forcing everyone to buy what they don't want in order to have what they actually want is not exactly convenient. Even if you really love cameras you probably know many think it's a gimmick, a diversion at best, don't matter how hard developers focus on that, it's not just the games for it not being good enough, it's the controller many don't want to use. Some of us are couch potatoes, you know. Also, please quit the "things moving forward" speech. You don't decide what is the way forward, market does, take a lesson from MS and "DRM is the future".

[N4g_null]

This only hurt developers of motion games, which are not present on Sony consoles.unfortunately ms will get a ton of sells from motion gaming.

[GrandTheftZamboni]

Yeah, looks more like Sony tricked M$ knowing that retail partners would leak the price.

[mistertwoturbo]

Soooooo... Sony made a move to give consumers a lower price point, and they are making it like it's a bad thing just to beat Microsoft?

It's not like they took out Wi-fi and charged $100 for a separate peripheral, or charge peopple $150 for a separate hard drive, or made a separate attachment to play Blu-Rays. I mean what modern day company would do such a thing?

:)

[The_Con-Sept]

No one wants to look like an idiot while trying to access a certain menu item.

[YNWA96]

@ Bishop BR,
Darths point is that the camera would be great if it is part of package, developers would not hold back, knowing every PS4 owner has one and will not worry. I have kinect on X360, do not use it that much but my son does, so for me its valuable. I know also X1, while expensive, still represents good value to me, for the way I plan on using it. As for PS 4, I will love it no doubt, but will now probably never get the Move, unless it was dirt cheap. Also, your statement, forcing people to buy what they do not want, where are your statistics to back this up? A lot of people would prefer to get it packaged, rather than pay full price later in box. Darths opinions are his, hes entitled to it, and he never said anyone elses opinions are wrong...

[bradleejones]

It's not like they took out Wi-fi and charged $100 for a separate peripheral, or charge peopple $150 for a separate hard drive, or made a separate attachment to play Blu-Rays. I mean what modern day company would do such a thing?
-mistertwoturbo

priceless

[Death]

It's all about perspective.

Sony included Blu-ray to secure the format at PS3 owners expense. PS3 owneres were forced to pay for it. Sony also yanked backwards compatability giving owners the option to buy a PS2 to play their old games. They also gave us the option to buy these same PS2 games and download them to play on the same system that can't play the disc version. Sony did a similar thing with the PSP when they dumped the UMD drive.

Funny how you can charge for a feature on one console and it "adds value" and then when the same is done on another it's being "forced" to buy something nobody wants.

[ThanatosDMC]

^Probably because we all have Kinect and what games did we actually play with it or what games actually worked properly. I played Just Dance got bored with it and made it collect dust... and then finally took it out again to play Steel Battalion Kinect. Wish i could have re-used my giant controller instead.

[BISHOP-BRASIL]

@Gman0174

Yeah, I got his point, he thinks it's convenient for devs to know a camera is with every system and hence support people that care about the camera... And my point is that to achieve what he want Sony would need to basically screw everyone else who don't want a camera, showing that convenience is something about as subjective as it gets.

And I'll take it up a notch (as much as it can ruin your kid's day, sorry), most "hardcore" gamers doesn't simply don't care about camera, they want it fucking gone. We don't even want devs to have that kind of option so we're not forced to deal with it ever.

That's exactly what I meant by a controller many people don't want to use. We don't want devs to be wondering "hey, why don't we make every menu in this otherwise awesome game controlled by jumping in front of the TV like freaking a baboon in a branch, since every unit has a camera, you know?". It's that simple. Forcing a camera on costumers won't stop on owning the hardware, it's a matter of time 'till all software is also based around it, so it's not simply benefitting those who like a camera, it's taking a dump on those who can't stand it.

You may argue that's not not necessarily going to happen, but I disagree, just look at the Wii. The wiimote always could be used as a basic controller when sideways as well as there were a more advanced standard gamepad from day one, although this was sold stand-alone indeed, but anyway 99% of the games on Wii are not only meant to be pleyed through motion controls, they are only playable like that. Most games don't even care to have an option to play with the standard gamepad... That's what many can't stand (me included, I do enjoy some motion controls here and there, but I don't want it to become the standard ever, hence I don't support it to be bundled).

----------------------------- -------------------
@Death

How many more quotes from devs complaining about DVD storage limitations you wanna see before you let it go about Sony forcing BD into everyone? And, if it's so bad, why isn't Xbox One games media a DVD? Anyway, welcome to 2006.

Also, I don't remember anyone applauding Sony for the PSPGo (at all, it was praised about as much as it sold, which is crap in case you don't know) or removing BC from PS3 (in that case many were happy about the pricecut, not because Sony removed a feature or said "buy it again", in fact many were complaining all day long).

And, quite frankly, the whole BC is a non-issue, white people problem at it's best. You are not forced to sell your console or buy a new one, in fact, it's not the standard for a new platform to run games from an old platform so you only have yourself to blame for those expectations.

Before PS2 there was no backwards compatibility and gaming was just fine. After that only early PS3 models and Ninty (Wii and WiiU) even tapped full "use your old discs" BC, but try to find anyone who uses it extensively... And yet here we are, all looking forward to non-BC consoles and still gaming just as before none the less.

[pompombrum]

It certainly isn't a sacrifice. Sony done the right thing knowing that many gamers don't care for motion gaming and didn't want to force it on us.

[lawgone]

Sone "done" the right thing? How about "did" the right thing?

[dantesparda]

Ok, professor

Screw you IGN, you pay Sony the difference to include the camera since you want it so much. Stop trying to troll IGN!

[hellvaguy]

But sony did force that gimmick touchpad on us instead.

[dredgewalker]

@Hellvaguy
It's an additional feature of the controller. It's still gonna have much more potential use in games than the camera.

[JsonHenry]

Fine by me. I never wanted kinect or motion control in general in the first place.

[HateFanboys]

You're such a bad ass libertarian

[vikingland1]

It was a shrewd business move.

[Pope_Kaz_Hirai_II]

What? Sony didnt make its camera to compete with kinect its just an option like move.

[LackTrue4K]

Smart move, if I see good use in gameplay ill pic one up month latter

[theDECAY]

I see what you did there!

Smart MOVE? Eh? Eh?

[LackTrue4K]

I can't take the credit, Sony makes it look EZ...
"Like Kinect One plus One!"

[MastaMold]

How would the PS4 cost $499 with the PS Eye included in the box when the PS Eye by ITSELF cost $60, ign making sh!t up just to justify Xbone $499 price.

[dantesparda]

Cuz they are MS fanboy trolls! They are full of crap and everybody knows it

[whoyouwit04]

The ps eye cost 60 bucks to produce, they have to make a profit off it genius.

[insomnium2]

@who

Sooooo.. they get that profit by selling the thing for 60 dollars separately? i think your production costs are a bit too high.

[TheTwelve]

Part of the definition of "sacrifice" is that it involves pain. Sony won't be hurting over this decision.

[KwietStorm_BLM]

It doesn't have to involve any pain at all. The camera was being considered to be included in the package. When it came time to debate the price, compromises were brought up, and the camera was what was sacrificed, given up, lost, in order to get that number down. It's that simple. I don't know why everyone keeps saying there was no sacrifice when that's exactly what happened. It's not a bad thing, but it's reality.

[elhebbo16]

yea but it would hurt there R & D a bit since the camera wouldnt get much use. personally I care more about gameplay innovations than what a camera can do.

[malokevi]

"Microsoft's decision to bundle a Kinect with each Xbox One and require it for use may be unpopular, but it guarantees that every user will have the option to try Kinect-enabled games and experiences. For developers, it means that Kinect integration is no longer a costly gamble on a small subsection of Xbox owners — motion-detecting and voice-sensing elements can be anything from a small optional game enhancement or the primary control method."

This is what's important. Can't wait to see what devs do with the tech now that there is guaranteed 100% adaption. The tech is impressive in and of itself, no doubt it will add to the experience in a wide swath of MS' AAA exclusives.

I had already assumed that this is how Sony managed to get their $399 price point. I was also wondering about the built in LED on the controller, as it was a much-touted feature during their reveal event.

I'm glad MS didn't get wind of this, and didn't choose to sacrifice Kinect. Whether its for surfing the dash, powering up the console, communicating with friends, or playing games, I can't wait to have Kinect as part of my setup.

[theDECAY]

Clearly, you've never used a kinect.

[malokevi]

Nope, but clearly I will have ample opportunity to use a Kinect 2.0.

[elhebbo16]

Six axis was "bundled" with every DS3, and it didnt get much use. only first party devs and some indies got to utilize it. I promise you most third-party devs are not gonna give two shits about kinect unless Microsoft writes them a big check.

*cough* Bethesda with Skyrim *cough*

[shinrock]

Dammnnnn all those disagrees for the facts.I see the fanboys on here don't like options and extra features. But they love free games and GameStop.

[The Real Peter Moore]

@shinrock

Shut up stupid, kinect sucks, and you're gonna pay an extra $100 for it, no thank you. F-ing fanboys, their stupidity never ceases

[Pope_Kaz_Hirai_II]

@ malokevi ms sure saw you comin

[dlocsta]

@therealpetermoore
The problem is the YOU are the fanboy. You jump on him because you don't like something HE is buying. Why do you give a $hit if your not a fanboy? You are the stupid one dumba$$.

[Automatic79]

@malokevi

You are right you can see that MS has a gameplan with kinect and many of the launch titles and features are going to be using it.

Deadrising
Ryse
Call of Duty
Witcher 3
Kinect Sports Rivals
Skype
Snap
Twitch
Xbox live
Apps and many more.

Many gamers are looking at the price tag today and I can see many jumping on something with a difference of 100 dollars but once you get a taste of some of those features and start to use it in game play it really is amazing.

[Nicaragua]

The only way Kinect will end up being implemented in games is just like it is today - as a glorified microphone for voice commands that nobody uses.

[malokevi]

"@therealpetermoore
The problem is the YOU are the fanboy. You jump on him because you don't like something HE is buying. Why do you give a $hit if your not a fanboy? You are the stupid one dumba$$. "

Quoted for truth.

[The Real Peter Moore]

@dlocsta

I also think its stupid to pay so much for apple products or change your smartphone out every other yr, does that make me a fanboy to? Shut the hell up, i think its stupid to have to pay a extra $100 for a piece of useless crap like the kinect, sorry, but deal with that! I think your the fanboy but caring and getting defensive about it.

@malokevi

Says the other fanboy, lame!

[malokevi]

@The Real Peter Moore

The point is that you're the one jumping all over us for supporting something with ridiculous negative comments.

You disagree? Fine. No need to be a jerk about it. let me quote you're response to our expression of interest:

"@shinrock

Shut up stupid, kinect sucks, and you're gonna pay an extra $100 for it, no thank you. F-ing fanboys, their stupidity never ceases "

And you have the nerve to call us fanboys? Get a clue.

[Bigpappy]

Sony did not do this to give you options. They did it to try and undercut the X1 price. Was not thinking about you except to get you to spend the money with them rather than M$. M$ was able to steal a large portion of the market from Sony this gen. Sony has sworn since then, they would not let M$ go first next time and they will not have such an expensive console. Their strategy was to let M$ nail down a price then do what they could to beat that price.

I was a clever move to under cut M$ on price, M$ had that advantage throughout this gen. But it is risky, as M$ with no doubt have a huge advantage in attracting the casual base. Notice they have not shown the Kinect games yet. If you don't think they will be some shown before the Holidays roll around, you are delusional. When M$ starts to market X1, it will look like a way better option to moms this Holiday season.

[malokevi]

They think that this means they get "options"... when ultimately, its the developer who has less options.

Which is OK, if your an Xbox gamer.

[KwietStorm_BLM]

Even though you trailed completely off topic there, I'll entertain it. What you said is true about casual games coming to Kinect, but here's a fun fact: all three consoles have casual games. Yes, the Xbox has Kinect, and yes, Microsoft has been pushing the casual thing for a while now, but some might say they have to turn it up to 11 at this point, considering the overall numbers. Sony dug themselves out of the grave this generation, and that was without launching at the same time, without word of mouth momentum, and without a cheaper price. Those things factor heavily into mindshare, especially the price, and a lot of moms are going to look at that too.

[Imalwaysright]

Even with PSeye the PS4 would be cheaper than the X1. There goes the point you were trying to make down the drain.

[Belking]

"Notice they have not shown the Kinect games yet. If you don't think they will be some shown before the Holidays roll around, you are delusional".

This is true. The only kinect game I've seen is Kinect sport rivals but you know plenty more are coming. Sony didn't include the move in it's package because they know their camera is inferior and it adds no value to the package whatsoever. Good move on sony's part but it will come at a loss of install base for their camera. Not only that but xbox-one with it's three operating systems, will offer multi-tasking that ps4 will not be capable of doing. Xbox one is more expensive but there is more value there than ps4. Sony may of had a lot of people fooled by the cheaper price but there are some of us who know the real deal.

[Why o why]

Lol...so to counter all of what you said sony just need market sonys real life advantages better including price...if you hadn't noticed, sony are far more aggressive now... just look at the ass whooping the share video gave ms.....its still getting viewed now even though ms has done a 180. Sony have apparently ditched the old advertising firm for some don draper types.

Oh do be quiet belkin. You were probably one of the drm cheerleaders AKA the insignificant minority in ms's own eyes. Why would your interpretation of value be considered a balanced one. Inferior camera...but Superior Console...Ill take that all day long ;)

[sAVAge_bEaST]

3 -Bloated OS's - so you can skype, game, watch TeeVee, and fantasy football, all at the same time?!?!! no thanks.
I don't want a camera that can tell my pulse, if i'm getting a hard on, because of blood flow,. my moods, hunger and thirst,.. only to make data packets to be sent back to microsoft..
I will buy a console to play games,. switch input's to watch tv,. I hate skype , and fantasy football..

[dantesparda]

@bigpappy

Wow! just wow! And what, MS was thinking about you? Is that why they are forcing Kinect down everyones throats and charging you a $100 for it? Yeah that really sounds like they were looking out for the consumer and not just trying to squeeze more money out of them. Thank MS, for charging us a $100 more for a product most dont want. Not even half the 360 base bought the thing! And kinect games really? This is a bragging point for you fanboys? MS fanboys arguments just keep better more and more pathetic, get you heads out of the cloud

@Belking

"some of us know the real deal", we know that you are one oblivious idiot. The PS4 is superior to X1 and is cheaper and isnt forcing some crappy spy casm on us and has much better 1st party support

[GrandTheftZamboni]

@Bigpappy

"When M$ starts to market X1, it will look like a way better option to moms this Holiday season"

It will make Wii U sky-rocket. Who wants their kids in front of cameras connected to the Internet?

[DARK WITNESS]

and by undercutting the x1 they gave us a better option..

[s8anicslayer]

Indeed, but it still would've been cheaper @ 459usd with the camera.

[marinelife9]

Microsoft releasing without a hard drive was stupid. Not including a peripheral camera is no big deal.

[3-4-5]

hmm takes away useless camera nobody wants....makes price of PS4 cheaper...= genius

[Heartnet]

Sony has actually given u less options by doing this in the longhaul

[DARK WITNESS]

how is it less of an option when I can still go out an buy it if I actually want it.

In MS case I have paid $100 for something I have no interest in and do not want.

which is the option?

[Heartnet]

But why would you buy it when none or very little games will support it? You wouldn't.

And with Microsoft including it with every console it gives the gamers more options in what games to purchase as you own the damn thing and also more games can implement it.

[DARK WITNESS]

But thats just the point, you are assuming that because it comes with the console their would be more games that use it but thats not the case.

MS has not shown any games using kinect2.0 in a more compelling way then we have seen kinect1.0 being used.

They are still making us pay for something that not everyone wants.

Sony had motion controller in EVERY PS3 system, did that guarantee that more games made use of it? No.

it works both ways. Even if sony just got their 1st party studios to use the pseye in a compelling way just to show off what it can do and how it can be used, if people like it they will buy it. those that don't wont.

[wastedcells]

this rumour is bull$hit. Sony never planned a camera bundle. Might offer one but never planned to make it the only launch option like X1 did. Well x1 doesn't work without its cam but you know what I mean.

[xtremeimport]

the camera is said to be retailing at like $50.
so it'd still be cheaper than the $499 xboxone.

[LordMaim]

First of all, they could have left it in and still been less expensive than the Xbox One. Secondly, is it really a sacrifice if not everyone even wants one?

[Syntax-Error]

You do know it would have been $500 if they left it in and they sell it for $60 stand alone

[WiiUsauce]

that sucks. now less PS4 games will have move support. I actually love motion controls when they're done right.

[Christopher]

Logic here isn't sound.

$399 + $60 < $499

Not even taking into account that they would probably only charge $50 more w/the camera since they would be selling more. It would still beat MS on price.

So, while I get IGN wants to make it seem like the camera was the deciding factor in beating MS' price, it wasn't. It was a step further, but they would still have gone under $499 w/the PSEye.

[CryofSilence]

The camera is only $60ish alone, so the sources are wrong. They could have easily included the camera in a $450 bundle.

[Syntax-Error]

That is why they didnt include it. Kinect is not peripheral. It is a part of the X1's functionality. You cant justify a camera for something that has voice recognition and motion detection to control your console. The EYE wasn't a justified $100 increase. Sony had every intetion on making it $500 but tricked you people into thinking THEY CARE. Whatever, they are a company just like any other company out there in it to make money

[humbleopinion]

It's definitely a sacrifice from developers perspective, very similar to how Microsoft gave up on mandatory hard drive with the 360.

Sure, as customers the 360 gave us more options and a lower starting price point. But from a developer perspective it meant developers can't rely on this kind of functionality existing in every machine and so there is less incentive to actually take advantage of that. It's pretty much the same story this time around, only the roles are reversed.

[Relientk77]

Very good strategy on Sony's part

[RiPPn]

Very good indeed, not only are they not forcing us to buy it, but people concerned about privacy will look at the PS4 as a great option, especially when both competing consoles have cameras.

[nick309]

I have ps eye & move and i barely use em. Same with kinect, expensive stuff that just gather dust.

[GDDR6_2014]

But that means few games will use it at all

[jimbobwahey]

So what? Microsoft is bundling Kinect with every Xbox One and as we saw at E3, very few games are using it even though everybody who buys the console will own one. Very smart move by Sony.

[Bigpappy]

You are very wrong to think that because there was not a lot of talk about Kinect, yet, that it would not be part of most core games. Kinect2.0 is not the same device a Kinect 1.0 and will be used very different. In core games it will be used as an enhancer (not replace the controller, but work with it). I will let M$ take care of showing and explaining that to you. Just know that they intend to have support in as many core games as possible.

[DARK WITNESS]

Oh please.....

They had a great chance to show what kinect 2.0 will do for hardcore games in the form of Rise.

That was suppose to be kinect from the round up and look how that turned out.

We were saying the same thing for kinect 1.0 for years and year after year all we got was casual crap.

Kinect2.0 will be good for talking to your TV, pointing your finger at the TV and hoping you lose weight.

leave it at that.

[KrisButtar]

I think Sony didn't include the camera, was part of their plan because the more games that use the camera means less PS4 games the Vita can play

[Heartnet]

removing a ton of features so you can play a game on a secondary device is terrible for developers and consumers.. so much restriction based on such a small minority.

[moparful99]

@Heartnet "removing a ton of features so you can play a game on a secondary device is terrible for developers and consumers"

Umm exactly what features where removed? The Eye still works with the PS4 difference is if anyone wants it they can go buy it separately and the rest of us don't have to pay more for the initial console that includes a peripheral that we do not want.. Only people arguing that it was a bad move are XBONE fans.. Have fun with your $100 web cam

[SoapShoes]

Not really. The PS4 Eye does everything Kinect does really, all they have to do is port the features over which won't be hard now that they're both the same architecture. Look at how many Wii games got ported to the Move, lots!

[gamertk421]

Nowhere near the Kinect technologically.

[Heartnet]

not that many games really... well ones worth playing lol...

And they havnt really showed off the ps4 camera at all so one can assume they wont put any focus on it and any developer wishing to utilize this tool will be a waste of time and resources...

Porting a kinect game to ps4 might not even be worth the hassle lol... All motion game developers will flock to the X1 as its 100% guareenteed to own it whilst developing for ps4 is risky.

[moparful99]

@Gamertk421 You do realize that THE only difference between the new PS eye and Kinect 2.0 is software right? In fact the new PS Eye has a full HD camera but can also scale back the resolution to run at a mind boggling 240 FPS. It also has a microphone array just like the Kinect and all Sony would have to do is code a language program that would allow ANY of the Kinect 2.o features to be implemented on the PS Eye.. Try again pal..

[Kingthrash360]

this^
I wish people would stop making assumptions about sony. they learned their lesson with the ps3 and put the gamers first this time around. it is only common since that the move flopped and they didn't want to force gamers to pay a extra $100 for the console just to include it. they know most dont want it.....ms are just a bunch of idiots.

[BabyTownFrolics]

"the move flopped?"

is that the new consensus round these parts, I recall a time recently that talk like that would loose you bubbles.

I agree with you, but I'm just surprised to see those words accompanied by agrees.

[Kingthrash360]

I wasn't speaking negatively about sony or the move...but its just fact. the move was unsuccessful so was the Kinect. those devices were sony & ms answer to the wii...but most core gamers didnt want the games that were supporting those devices because they mostly made games for the casual gamer...and the casual gamer already had a wii....the hardcore games that support the move h:-Oad gimmicky features and frankly I was already tired of flinging my arms around playing zelda and mario galaxy. I hated that about the wii....this is my opinion though but id rather sit and press buttons than swing a my arms around looking like a grown ass kid. but yeah the move flopped I wish it hadn't but it did and sony knows it and are smart for making it optional...but you do have a point its harsh but im not trolling it because its true. im not trolling ms by calling tgem idiots because its true the way they handled the xb1 from the reveal to e3 to a week after e3 they've handled it like idiots.

[Heartnet]

Nah MS just looking out for the developers and giving gamers more options in their games.

Move failed as it had never any decent games for it and no1 bought its a viscous cycle.. why the Wii had good motion games as they could use the controlelrs with 100% certainty they would have the contrtoller and it would sell units.

[moparful99]

Please name any good games for Kinect.. There are none.. Kinect has turned into a glorified webcam that allows voice commands... Kinect games are terrible as are move games.. At least Sony isn't forcing us to get a PS Eye whether we want one or not... You say its good for developers huh? What happens when a dev goes ohh 100% attach rate with Kinect huh? They then decide to make a Kinect game. That game is mediocre at best because you ultimately don't have full control in 3 dimentional space. So that game doesn't sell enough to break even.. Well that dev spent all that time and money for nothing.. But yea you're totally right this is nothing but good for devs /s

[B1663r]

Dance Central 1, 2 & 3

With a series lifetime sales somewhere in the 6-8 million sales.

I can agree that you don't like it, but claiming it is not a great game is an assumption on your part.

Kinect dance games are the de facto standard in dance games now.

[Maldread]

A damn smart plan, i`would call it.

I`ve yet to see anything Mircosoft has done to show that i need Kinect in any way. Other than yelling and waving to the TV in order to change chanel, and being comitted to an insane asylum.

Better to have the option to buy Kinect/PS Eye at a later time for a cheaper prize on the consoles when they`re out. And if something relevant comes up that you actually want from them.

[ExCest]

Weren't they going to use the camera to "mark" the players since the controllers have those lights? How is that going to work now or is it scrapped altogether?

[nick309]

They do but it's optional, they made it so you can afford the camera at a different point.

[ExCest]

Hmm. I thought that was something Sony wanted so they can assign multiple accounts onto different controllers so there can be multiple accounts playing on one PS4.

That's going to be an option and not included? I understand the price point but I was looking forward to having that "gimmick".

[shinrock]

If the eye was supposed to be optional,and Sony left it out for the FANS, then why did Sony present the eye before they showed the ps4 at their 1s press event.that tells me that the eye was not an option for Sony at 1st and that paranoia set and they cut it. M$ took a risk,Sony didn't .

[Kingthrash360]

you can buy it...that gimmick is a choice for you to have. like 3d games...its not forced on you.....I know I would be nice to have the same price point with the cam included but that wouldn't be possible.
still options are always great.

[M-M]

The PS4 does it itself, it tracks the position of the controllers via the DS4's light.

[ExCest]

That's the question I'm asking. How would it do that without the camera? I thought the "new" PS Eye was to peripheral to track the lights.

[moparful99]

@ExCest It does track the light on the controller but its not mandatory for anything.. If you want a PSEye because you feel those features are good then go buy and Eye for $60 instead of having to pay 70-100 dollars more at launch... You act like everything is completely broken because its not packaged with the console.. Just another option for gamers.. No big deal..

[DivineAssault]

i think it was a good move.. Who wants forced gimmickry in games anyway?

[cunnilumpkin]

I'm damn glad they did too!!

I don't want another gimmick forced on me

I want hardcore shooters, rpg's, platformers and action games that use traditional controls

I'm not at all interested in hopping around my living room, talking to my tv like a crazy person or using motion controls of any kind

any of the above forced upon me just pisses me off, and then you're going to ask me to pay more for it??

PASS!!

Good job sony in listening to what GAMERS want, that's why you'll be getting my money and not the "other" guys

[SeraphimBlade]

In my mind, it's a "sacrifice" in the same sense that removing a tumor is "losing a part of yourself."

[rezzah]

Plus it is cheaper too. $60, the same price as the new controller.

[Ashunderfire86]

If they included the Camera, the PS4 Would still be less than Xbox One. It would be $460 dollars, because the Camera cost $60 dollars. No big deal here. You still gonna pay that much when you include a game with a bundle anyway.

[Scrumptious]

I would have paid $450 for a default PS4 package with the eye included.

[PR_FROM_OHIO]

Smart move Sony! Bc what real gamers want the camera anyways?? I know I don't lol

[punisher99]

"Sony Sacrificed the PS4 Camera to Beat Microsoft on Price"

Good. You shouldn't need a camera to play a video game anyway.

[TheUndertaker85]

Needing and bundling are two different beasts. Even if they decided to bundle there's nothing to say that they'd require it.

[310dodo]

Can anyone tell me if there will be video chat on PS4?

already bought mines. just wondering.
because that would be awesome.

[Utalkin2me]

I'm sure there would be, considering the PS3 has it.

[Utalkin2me]

Really? I have used it multiple times on my PS3. You can have 6 people video chatting at one time.

@Volitiel
He is talking about video chat not game streaming.

[Phils_Libra]

I'm not very fluent with video streaming myself, but I recall Sony partnered with UStream which I think would cover this. Microsoft partnered with Twitch.

[Phils_Libra]

@Utalkin2me
Yep, you're correct. I've seen video chats streamed on UStream before, which made me think UStream could do that too. Duh! My mistake.

[Soldierone]

It's an OPTION. Just like Vita is an OPTION. They have the core experience there with options to make it even better. You dont HAVE to shell out the money until you want it later.

[ape007]

MS need a 399$ kinect free system to compete or it's an easy win for sony

[ZBlacktt]

Many of us WONT use it anyway. I'm not here to dance out on the floor.

[badkolo]

so would have I, its a shame seeing these kids saying they wouldnt want a full pakcage, now its ok to get gimped to save a few bucks while people are paying 600 for a tablet that does nothing. its a shame you kids are ruining it for everyone.

when i was a kid i wanted the light gun with my console when it was shown, we didnt hit air the waves to have the light gun removed to shave a few bucks off so some fanboys can have their way

so instead of having a full featured ps4 with cam and the possibilities they bring you rather go back to the dark ages to appease your stupidty

now its ok to want less???

[Kyosuke_Sanada]

Good Lord......you are trying way too hard.

[punisher99]

Then just buy the camera if you want it. No one is taking that option from you. If they would have bundled it with the console, then the price would have been 450 or 460$. The camera cost 60$. Or just buy one of the bundles that include the camera. What Sony did was give us a choice. Not everyone wants to even use a camera with their console. Why make people pay for something they dont want??

[badkolo]

its not buy or not buy, the ps4 camera is now officially garbage, you guys said so cause you all would rather not have it included, so that means the camera will be used in the same manner it was on the ps3, BARELY and with little support, blame yourselves for wanted less because your all so paranoid and rather worry about nonsense then have a full fledged system. thank god ms didnt listen even further and remove the camera based on child like behavior from fanboys

[moparful99]

@badkolo "blame yourselves for wanted less because your all so paranoid and rather worry about nonsense then have a full fledged system"

Since when is the Eye needed to consider the system full fledged? I'm sorry the console does everything it NEEDS to do to be considered a fantastic game console.. Just because Sony isn't force feeding it to us doesn't mean the PS4 is somehow gimped or any less of a games console...

Please don't tell me you're a 360 fan because if you are then you're entire statement is invalid..

[ShwankyShpanky]

Who even used the NES light gun for anything except the bundled Duck Hunt?

[Maldread]

badkolo, so because you and god knows who else want a camera included, the rest of us should pay extra? I`m sure Sony will have a bundle which saves you some cash if you what it along with your PS4 too.

But what brilliant Kinect games have you seen so far for XBone? Ryse was suppose to be an all-kinect game, but is now scaled back to just included in some minor form. The same will probably be true for most games.

The same reason why lightguns arn`t included, is the same reasons why Kinect isn`t needed, from what i`ve seen so far. Few games will utilize it properly. If i`m wrong in the future, i`ll gladly buy it, because i can chose to do so on PS4. I doubt it though. Wii focused on purely motion controls and how many games used that well again?

Still, hope you enjoy being in motion. I prefer to say: Xbox and Kinect OFFF!!! For now ;)

[Drekken]

Back to the garbage can with you, Oscar.

[punisher99]

"so that means the camera will be used in the same manner it was on the ps3, BARELY and with little support,"

Good. Thats the way it should be. Im a real gamer, not someone that needs gimmicks to enjoy gaming nor do I want those gimmicks forced on me. If they would have include the camera with every console, who knows how many games there would be that have mandatory usage.

[shinrock]

Real gamers play GAMES? ,The kinect has games, the eye has games.also real gamers stfu and play and don't bitch on the internet about some1 else wants or desires. Real gamers will have both PS and xb.

[Imalwaysright]

You call us kids but the only immature person here is you.

[shinrock]

For a PS fanboy,yes.

[TheUndertaker85]

The number one problem with this article:

"Sony nixed plans to include the camera add-on with every system and shave $100 off it's originally planned price of $499."

But then they note later that the camera isn't $100. Wouldn't logic say that if they did bundle the camera it'd be in the ballpark of $449, not $499? Sony'd still have a lower price than MS.

$399 puts it at a more competitive price to both the Xbox One and WiiU. While Sony didn't go lower than Nintendo they have a product with more bang for the buck.

[Phils_Libra]

Agreed, but I think IGN and we are missing one more piece to this, the Move controller. I recall it was shown, for now the PS4, during Media Molecule's segment in the Sony event back in February with the sculpting game. So, camera and Move controller added, I can see a $100 addition for both to the base $399 system with the DualShock 4 controller. Glad Sony is giving us freedom of choice here as I have no interest in motion control games.

[listenkids]

But the camera has been listed at what? $60? That still puts it under.

[Ozmoses]

I wouldn't say sacrificed... I would say they properly planned...

Common sense dictates that CAMERAS are not need for a gamer to enjoy a game...

All a gamer needs is the game and a controller.

It's smart to make the camera separate... Now if you want to get it you have the option of buying it..

That's how everything should work... Nothing should be forced on us.

[RandomDude655]

lol....why so salty IGN? Your horse losing this race?

[jonboi24]

If Sony can show me I need one then I'll buy one, for a system priced at $399 I'll take that sacrifice.

[Cmk0121]

smart move for sure even if it undercuts their own accessory and makes some of the controllers feature useless. gamers dont want all that extra ish and price that comes with it...

[Lockon]

I don't even care for the camera.

[pixlz]

Because Microsoft did include it, there is going to be 3rd party adoption. They will still sell games for Sony.

Its not gonna hamper any products, save for maybe 1st party support.

Judging by Media Molecule's tech demo in February at the PS4 reveal, i'm not worried that buying a camera's gonna be a waste.

[ruefrak]

The PS4 camera will not suffer the same fate as the Eye and Move controllers because you don't need to purchase extra controllers to make it work. It used to be you had to buy the camera, then buy a couple of controllers, and then get games that would work with them all. Now, every controller is compatible. All you need is the camera. Games, like Shadow Fall, will have built in features if you have the camera, but will disable them if you don't. I think that from what they have shown already, the PS4 camera is going to be very compelling as a $60 purchase. Eventually most people will probably get one.

[badkolo]

but not everyone will but the camera so devs wont support it any further then what they normally do, the x1 has it included and expect lots of use to be put to kinect 2

[Imalwaysright]

"but not everyone will but the camera" If you meant "buy" then you already know why Sony made the camera optional. I don't want it so why should I pay for it?

[badkolo]

you odnt need a console but youll buy one, you dont know what you need till you have it. this isnt last gen, your only killing innovation and your all to blame, sony gives you less and you praise them, well enjoy the ps4 and its limitations, cause its limited. that wont makes sense to you now but when the x1 releases an does more then youll all wish you werent such fanboys, so enjoy it now becuase soon when games are coming out slowly and there isnt much else to do, youll wish you had a x1

[Imalwaysright]

Yes don't need the console but I want it. I don't need the camera and I don't want it. I've been gaming for 23 years and I never needed gimmicks. I'm sure I can live without them now.

Killing innovation? Who asked for innovation? You want innovation and that is fine but I never asked for it. Why should it be forced on me and why should I pay for it?

Sony gives me less? Good I don't want more. All I want will be packaged on my PS4 and Wii U as soon as I get them and I'll pay LESS for both of them because you know what? I care more about my money than a gimmick I never asked for.

X1 does more? I don't care. All I want is to insert my disks on my console, sit on my couch and play my games. That is all I want from my consoles and that is why I buy them. I couldn't care less about TV or some share button on a controller. Give me a console and great games (without restrictions) and I'll be a happy gamer.

[MilkMan]

SWEET, that was excellent thinking on SONY's part. Now if XBone would do the same and scrap that Kinect....

[Baka-akaB]

What sacrifice ? it's not meant to be a kinect or forced .

[Doghead]

Cuz no one need a stupid camera for playing games...

[Roper316]

even with the camera it would have been about $50 less, then you need to throw in the batteries for the XB1 controller, a headset and a live membership because everything on the XB1 is locked behind a pay wall. The PS4 you only need Plus to access MP not F2P games ( which aren't free anymore if you have to pay to access them ) and then things like Netflix, Amazon Instant etc etc all locked away behind a MS pay wall even though you are already paying for those services. I sorry but anyone who doesn't see a problem with needing to pay a extra fee to use something that you are already paying for the right to use like Netflix is a complete moron.

So buy time you add in all the extras that you HAVE to get for the XB1 to equal the PS4 you will be paying more like $600 - 650 for it. Where as a PS4 with camera is 459.00.

[Kayant]

And for me it's a blessing because I will never use or play games with motion controls except with friends. Even if in future if we can use our whole body to play a game. The input devices i will only use with be a controller, mouse and keyboard and maybe a joystick.

Options > Being Forced

[KrisButtar]

I think Sony didn't include the camera was part of their plan because the more games that use the camera means less PS4 games the Vita can play

[jahfen83]

I will likely buy the camera later anyway cause I'm a geek, but so glad I'm not forced to get right off the bat.

[Clarence]

No sacrifice. They just gave us a option.

[Polysix]

yeah it was kinda hinted at strongly pre-e3 that the camera was going to be included as standard (also partly why I think they put colour bars on the controller), in an 'ideal' world it would have been included but not mandatory and for just a little extra ($50) or even for nothing.

However I see why they dropped it to beat MS convincingly on price while giving a stronger system with better hardware, it was a wise choice and will please more people than it will disappoint, those who want the camera won't mind buying it (I have a cam + 2 move wands for PS3).

Most people wouldn't want the camera so it's only wise to make a base SKU at the best price for the masses - MS couldn't because kinect is mandatory or at least half the reason much of it's (imo pointless) features exist.

[isarai]

even with the camera it would have been cheaper, the standalone camera is $60, bundled with the console it would have been even cheaper, so it still wound have been around $425-$450. even so it was more about giving consumers the choice rather than forcing it on people, Sony has always been about options with all their products

[AceofStaves]

Sacrifice? Hardly. It was a sound business decision, since it allowed them to reach a far more attractive price point for launch.

[TronEOL]

And if you really wanted the PSEye 2, you could buy the PS4, PSEye V2 AND a game and it'd still be cheaper than an XboxOne.

Also, the reason I say "cheaper" is because you're getting so much more for your money with that setup. For $500 on XboxOne, you'll be getting a console, Kinect, and gamepad.

With the PS4 you get the console, gamepad, headset, and can still purchase the PSeye and game for about $510. Or if you bought PS+ instead of a game (you get *free games anyways) you'd actually be paying less.

[slazer101]

I'm glad Sony give us the option to decide if we want a camera or not. I personally don't like a peripheral being forced upon me. What I don't understand why Sony has not put out a bundle with the camera. I think it would be a smart move. Price it a $450 I think it would sell. At least it would give some options.

[antikbaka]

Even if Sony still kept the camera it would be 50$ cheaper...

[MultiConsoleGamer]

I didn't really want another camera on my TV anyways.

However, since this is now a peripheral, and since gamers don't usually like peripherals, its dead in the water.

[Ninjamonkey82]

Thats bull you cant turn the xbone on without the kinect so its forced on you. Pseye has always been an option seen the time it was made on the ps2.

They have no need to make it anything other now. Down the line there may be the odd pack with it but that will be a choice made by Sony themselves and more likely to promote a game release etc. Its been done before.

Xbones on the rail technology isn't nothing special tbh only thing new in this gen is its a power on switch tbh I'm not lazy enough to have to shout at the console.

[PerryCaravello]

Even with the success of kinect, it still hasn't pushed any meaningful hardware sales. Current sales trends show PS3 beating 360 for nearly 2yrs.

So I guess Sony was willing to leave the camera out. Apparently lack of camera isn't affecting current sales.

[Pro_TactX]

The title doesn't make a lot of sense. Even if Sony had bundled the camera, the PS4 would still beat the Xbox One in price.

[spektical]

I was gonna get the camera..but I havent seen any features yet.. so better to hold of on it. I still have it preorderd, but I will remove it in time if nothing interesting comes up

[speedninja]

Fantastic of Sony to not include the OPTIONAL camera and save us $60 on the price. Making it $100 cheaper than a Xbox One. I can pick up a PS4 with two great games for the same price as the Xbox One. What games do you have to have a camera for anyway??????????

[PositiveEmotions]

I think sony did a smart move on this

[ElementX]

PS Move would've been better if more games were developed for it. It didn't sell very well and since it wasn't included, the install base wasn't very large so developers didn't bother supporting it in their games. I played Sports Champions a few times but it was definitely a rip off.

[ironmonkey]

Thank you sony. If people want the camera they could buy it separate. Giving consumers the choice is better. Win for sony again.

[captain_slow82]

worked out perfect for me if i want all this so called fancy tech i can get it

and guess what? if i dont want it its not forced upon me

that to me is great :) win win for me

[Belking]

can't disagree with that. MS camera stomps ps eye in the ground in technology. Adding PS eye to the package adds no value.

[GamerGuy153]

Xbox has the Kinect by default, so no doubt, developers will add some very compelling features to the box. The nice thing is though, since they develop these features for the Xbox, it will be very easy to port them over to the PS4. The features will obviously be optional since not everyone will have a camera, but it won;t cpst the developers any more money to add the saem features to the PS4.

[Belking]

"The features will obviously be optional since not everyone will have a camera, but it won;t cpst the developers any more money to add the saem features to the PS4."

You see that's where you're wrong. It will cost more because MS offers devs a Kinect SDK kit along with each dev kit. Sony doesn't and the devs have to come up with it on their own, which increases the cost. This is why so many xbox360 games supported voice while ps3 versions didn't. of course this is all about software and mS is just plain better at this type of stuff.

[Utalkin2me]

Windows says hi....MS is one of the worst software companies to date.

[Destrania]

I think in a few years as manufacturing costs go down, Sony may bundle the camera with the PS4. I also see a PS4+Vita bundle in the future at some point.

[elhebbo16]

Once media molecule makes there Move game for PS4 I would probably buy the camera (Im sure I would have to since the PS eye toy wont work.)

[sAVAge_bEaST]

Thank you Sony, for not making us buy into a stupid gimmick.

[ThaBlackBaron]

Um yea not really a good move since the camera is becoming more of a core feature of games and gaming in general now, This can possibly be a big negative against the PS3 since the ii U and Xbox One come standard with a camera for video chat and video/Pics in Games

[jjb1981]

Honestly I don't see how I would need it. Just give a controller and the disc!

[My_Outer_Heaven]

It was a great decision, it means that Sony can advertise the benefits of having a PS4 camera which in tern would give us a more compelling reason to want to buy it. With move integrated into Dual Shock 4 the PS4 camera is looking like a worth while purchase especially when it can detect which side of the players are on during dual screen multiplayer and it will determine which player is which by colour and PSN account. Plus I love the idea of using touch pad to flick things out in games :-) Dual Shock 4 is showing a lot of potential even more so when using it with the camera!

[bobacdigital]

Personally if they werent going to include the eye sensor they should have changed some of the features in the dual shock 4... The controller is going to be more expensive because of the features included to work with the eye.

Also what happens to all the developers who are making move games? Their install base now is greatly reduced.

Not including it is going to make the eye toy an after thought rather than a mainstay like the Kinect.

[My_Outer_Heaven]

Key is advertising though.. if they make it more appealing and list the benefits people will buy it more.. plus down the road more bundles will probably become available like PS4Vita bundles PS4 Move bundles etc.. Time is all Sony need and right now its about getting those systems out there in our hands.

[kingPoS]

So the controller costs a whole $5 more. Big whoop. The Dual Shock 4 itself is part of the eye hence the glowing light. When the camera only cost as much as one game, it's accessibility shouldn't be a real problem.

People like having options, it's as simple as.

[bobacdigital]

A lot more than actual parts go into making a controller... They have to price out the R&D and time it took to add those features to the controller.

Also other things could be affected like weight, battery life, and general aesthetics..

Not including it with every standard console gives devs a level of uncertainty when trying to develop a game for the console. Why spend man hours and money to make it compatible with the eye if the attach rate is going to be low?

I would say an overwhelming number of Sony core gamers have already posted above and mentioned on other threads they dont care about Kinect or Move. This leads me to believe that if it is an option most core gamers would avoid purchasing it and spend their 60$ elsewhere.

[rjgbyrne]

I prefer the idea that Xbox will have universal set of components for developers and I was interested in what players would lose without the always online features. MS is talking cramp when they say they 'have' to cut any of the proposed features, lets face it, they backed down because of the big brother style snooping was implied.
I am a little more perplexed with Sony not having the camera bundled. It means the blue face of the dual shock 4 is optionally used, the touted kindest matching features too. I smell more than a rat as they seem to be refuting and adding like an opposition political party on features they should have nailed down by now.
My dollar is still with Microsoft at the moment, but they should sweeten the deal by announcing people can have the online experience they say they cannot provide with the DRM reversal.

[CoryHG]

The camera is $60. It's still cheaper when bundled with the PS4 and there's a free headset. Not to mention Driveclub will be free for Plus members. Buy the Xbox One, a headset, and a game, and you're looking at $650.

[Monkeyonfire13]

I'd like to think its a choice. I know i Dont want the camera. my buddy bought one for the ps3 and used it once and only once. so Thank you Sony for leaving the decision making up to me on my peripheral purchases.

[darkness625]

Even if i wanted the camera along with the PS4 it's still a better deal. Camera $60 with console $400 makes it $460 in total.

[SactoGamer]

That's fine. We don't really want it anyhow.

[BLKxSEPTEMBER]

I don't ublnderstand all these "forced camera" comments. I mean I'm no fan of Kinect but I think its a good idea to have it with every system so it will be used by devs. And for you people claiming Sony doesn't force tech on its consumers I'd like someone to explain to me the forced blu ray drive in my ps3. I already had a very good blu ray player and didn't need one in my console but was forced to have it. If any of you really believe these companies care about you then your life must be very lonely. These companies only care about what's in our wallets and how they can empty them...

[Ipunchbabiesforfun]

Thank god. I would have been pissed to pay $499 for a camera I don't want.

[ExDexteraDomini]

In other words, Sony played on the lack of forward thinking and near-sightedness of its target consumers and sacrificed innovation in hope of making more money.

[ethomaz]

How a $60 can give a $100 difference? Article makes no sense.

[Godmars290]

The camera just isn't as important to Sony than MS have made it for the 360. Given that it has t be plugged into the XB1 for that console to work.

[kingPoS]

Who doesn't like being given a choice of an extra camera accessory. Who would want to say no to having options?

If people buy the camera that's fine, if not... that's ok. The customer is always right... right?

[KontryBoy706]

lies! ... the PS4 camera isn't even $100. If Sony included it, it still would be cheaper than the XB1

[badvlad]

who wants a camera anyways. Just give me games to play

[evilhasitsway]

ms was just or is trying to force the camera and sony is like its a option

[Spontogical]

Don't see how it's a sacrifice.

Since when was $399 + $59.99 = $499?? :/

Sony had no intention of bundling the camera with the system. It's a pretty stupid move to do so anyways.

[saimcheeda]

I'm not interested in the camera or Ps move, it would be useless for me to have buy those just to get a PS4!

[Davuskus]

This isn't true: http://n4g.com/news/1291021...

[thechowderp]

the camera is $60 so it would be $460, but if the kinect was $150 like it is now and they didnt include it, it would be $50 less than ps4

[jorellpogi]

It's a good move by Sony for not forcing us to buy a PS4 with Eye. Most of the functionality of the Kinect are already implemented on the latest Samsung tv's hence no need for it.

[Bennibop]

Have Preoder a PS4 and an eye, its still cheaper thean X1! Plus I will not have to fork out for batteries for the dualshock or pay twice for Netflix etc.

[carterboys]

Personally I see this as a mistake! developers are unlikely to give it as much attention, people are saying this is a good thing because they don't like it but by not including it they are taking away the potential for the camera to develop onto something functional!!

I'd imagine Sony were thinking the same when they didn't include a headset in the playstation 3 bundle! People didn't think that was needed either (even though its far cheaper) which I think everyone can agree was detrimental to online gameplay!

Overall this just seemed like a way to make them look better compared to Microsoft!! Business is business! Companies go where the money is! The consumer has less of a voice than you think!!

[Groo]

I understand your points, but in this case the over all consumer voice would prefer to have an option of purchasing the accessory rather then being forced to purchase an accessory just to use a console when the vast majority of the consumers you speak of do not want or dont have an interest in it in the first place. Choice and options, consumers best friends

[Droid Control]

I'd rather have a headset over a camera and I'd rather save £80

[lucidity]

A smart decision, given they're less desperately reliant on the motion gaming stuff than Microsoft currently are.

[Groo]

Good, the needs of the many outweigh.. well, I don't believe PS fans really give a crap obout the camera anyways.. but its nice that its optional and not force fed.

[threefootwang]

I don't even care that Kinect comes in the box, it's the fact that M$ is forcing it to be mandatory. Sony absolutely nailed it with their approach, making the camera completely optional which just makes its price tag all the more better!

Greatness awaits? How about my PS4 awaits! :)

[hankmoody]

If the camera is packaged with the system, there will be less hesitancy on the part of the developers to create games that will take advantage of it. If you're selling it separately, there's a good chance that a developer will be hesitant to develop for it due to consumer adoption stats. They might even just ignore it altogether. Really doubt that the PS Eye is going to do well.

[Spartan23c]

In my opinion, good move! I do not want/ need the camera anyways. I am still planning on getting both consoles and I do not appreciate with the ONE that i need to have the kinect connected at all times. Also if there was a cheaper xbox without kinect i would get that.... but good job Sony. This is why you won E3 and possibly will win this generation.

[Flames76]

Yea buying a PS4 will just cost more in the long run.PS4 $400,camera $60 and PS plus $50 comes to $510.My xbox live is paid up till 2015 and the Xbox One is only $500 so thats $10 cheaper.Plus you get better games after what microsoft showed at E3 and bringing home the most awards.Yea i can see why Xbox One is sold out at gamestop and number 1 on amazon U.S/UK

[Fakdafakinfakerz]

F*** the camera! F*** motion controls!

[Major_Bogart74]

just because you paid live till 2015 dosnt mean you dont add that cost to your total sorry.how ever you spin it live is more than plus.and ps4 comes with headset. Xbone does not so back to the old calculator

[Major_Bogart74]

So the xbone failure to include a headset means...

[xk77]

wont be surprised if they start bundling the camera and the console together next year for $400 and discontinue the base console with no camera