Dan Greenawalt has always been very confident on the quality of the Forza Motorsport franchise, and he’s always vocal about it when on stage or interviewed. He’s also seen as not very keen to speak with people that criticize the direction of the series,this time, though, he bravely (and a bit smugly) responded to some very pointed questions.
From Digital Foundry: "Welcome to the third part in the biggest DF Retro episode we've ever produced - a year-by-year look at how 1080p gaming fared on the PlayStation 3. Launched in 2007 touting its then-exclusive HDMI digital interface, Sony layered full HD gaming on top of its Cell processor and RSX 'Reality Synthesizer' as key selling points for its third generation console. Of course, we all know how that turned out - both Sony and Microsoft machines routinely ran the most advanced titles at sub-720p resolutions, often with questionable performance, so what happened to the 1080p dream?
In the first two parts of John Linneman's investigation, we've covered off the first four years of the Triple's lifecycle and moving into 2010, the overall fortunes of the PlayStation 3 continued to improve. The platform holder released - what was then - the most advanced motion controller in the console space, backed up by experiments with stereoscopic 3D, which turned out to be a short-lived but still formidable pairing. Combined with a strong E3 showing, PS3 was looking good.
However, it's fair to say that it was a fallow year for 1080p gaming on the system, with only Scott Pilgrim Saves The World's razor-sharp pixel art upscaling, Castle Crashers and Soldner X2's 3D/FMV stylings accommodating full HD output - alongside a wonderful Monkey Island remaster."
Just remember ladies and gentlemen, Sony never said all games would be 1080p. Only that the system would support games up to 1080p in a survey before the system was released.
https://spong.com/article/9...
And as we saw, some games did support it, some games tried their best to support it and some games didn't or never reached it.
Is a higher resolution great to have if you can do it? Sure. Is it necessary for a fun game? No
But what I find interesting is Eurogamer. Are they really talking about HD and PS3 in their article or are they really pushing their 4.50 Euros 4K video download subscription? Seems one is being used to sell the other. Just look at the bottom of the article.
thats what every company tries to do, push for people to buy their products. Are you really gonna blame them for that?
Not all articles are about selling. They're about informing or entertaining.
Maybe I'm supposed to watch the video instead of reading. But I shouldn't have to click. But the article lazily tells us some games did hit 1080p and some didn't. I didn't learn anything new as I own the console. Then, they push a Patreon subscription.
Are you saying every opinion, preview, review and rant article requires a push to buy something now? Tell me which sites are prone to do so so that I can avoid them in the future.
not everyone played during the ps3 era. I started during snes era but loved seeing articles/videos about how gaming evolved before that.
i dont think this article is trying to push you to get that patreon sub, it doesnt for me at least. I dont think theres anything wrong putting an ad at the bottom of the article. all the regular DF videos are free already.
Wipeout HD on PS3, a remake of the PS1 game was 1080p 60fps. And that released in 2007-08
This really feels like a filler article. I don't feel like I learned anything notable or substantial from this. I feel they could have reduced the unnecessary intro and over-explanation of things and put the whole series in one article for a more substantial and possibly informative piece rather than piece-mealing it out as they have.
It's more about the video. DF Retro videos are for Patreon members first, and I think the whole thing was one big video. For the youtube channel, it gets chopped up and released weekly.
Chris is actually right on this one. Something known already was just kind of washed over in the article. Unless you're supposed to get more in the video. If more is in the video, then more could have been said in the article.
Only thing I learned new was that they are selling a subscription. My point though is that you gain more viewers by having better articles and content.
Having outgrown its Gran Turismo rivalry, Forza Motorsport is looking to redefine racing games in glorious high fidelity for Xbox Series X and S.
I think forza horizon is now number one on the forza games. That franchise took the number one spot on racing on Microsoft machines. I think they should go next to forza rally, because there a huge hole on that area of racing. A full forza rally would be great. I think normal racing game already hit the ceiling.
"A full forza rally would be great. I think normal racing game already hit the ceiling."
The new Forza Motorsport marks a return to it´s simulator roots. Turn 10 is not aiming at Gran Turismo anymore. They´re aiming at Assetto Corsa and other full SIM racing games.
It took Turn10 8 games to implement tire and fuel management and now they are aiming for assetto corsa?
@obscure
Id ask u if u were joking but sadly i know ur being legit, what a shock.
Like pitbullmonster said it took 8 games just get tyre and fuel management in the game and somehow its leaped gt and when did gt fall behind the other sim racers lol
U could try to be a little more subtle when making fan boyish comments.
Guaranteed u havent even played the latest gt or assetto corso so likely have no idea what ur actually talking about.
Anyways back to the op, im glad motorsport is coming back exactly as is with a new physics system and revamped graphics, id take this all day over a rally game.
If they want to make a tally game then sure thatd be nice but not at the expense of motorsport
"Forza rally could be awesome"
Personally, I don´t think Xbox needs another *Forza* title since Microsoft already has one of the best Rally IPs in the genre.
https://www.youtube.com/wat...
This game looks absolutely insane visually. I'm wondering what framerate it'll run at with RT enabled. Obviously, there will be 120hz and 60hz modes, but with what level of detail & RT is the question.
I'd assume 60fps still, but the resolution is likely dynamic just like it was in Forza Horizon, with 1/2 or 1/4 resolution raytracing which is apparent from the trailer. Allegedly what was shown was a combination of PC max settings and Series X targets, so we'll have to wait and see.
120Hz mode would be cool, but I'm not sure they'll do it, and if so it'll likely only be Series X. So I'd say:
Series X: Native 4K@60fps basically Max Settings / Dynamic 4K@60fps w. Raytracing (1440p - 4K)
Series S: Native 1440p@60fps High Settings / Dynamic 1080p@60fps w. Raytracing (720p - 1080p)
I really doubt they will do raytracing in 60fps mode, hopefully im wrong, but I just dont see it happening.
30fps RT mode
60fps performance mode without RT
Im not even sure there will be RT at all on Series S
@Onilink
The Series X should be able to do it without question, it's more of a question of how far down will the resolution have to drop when Reflections are at their most. A map with Rain, Puddles, multiple cars, and sunshine is going to be the stress point for the game, and we'll see if fps take the hit, or resolutions takes a nose dive in such as section. The resolution of reflections look 1080p on Series X because there was a good amount of aliasing going on, so I see Dynamic 4K with drops down to 1440p higher or lower depending on the map, time of day, weather conditions, number of cars on screen, and number of reflections.
The Series S is the one I question, because 1080p reflections while having aliasing is okay and not as noticeable while playing, so if the Series S uses quarter resolution we're looking at 540p reflections or lower and that's going to be very noticeable. But they said RT for Series consoles, but the didn't specify to what degree, aka used cars salesmen tactics, so it could very well be RT is in the PC version, and SX version, but it's RT shadows on the SS.
It would be a HUGE fail if they drop fps to 30fps for Raytracing in the SX version, but the Series S might have no choice in order to keep a high enough resolution. We'll see in 2023 I guess.
As a PlayStation only gamer, I have to admit that this new Forza game looks a generation ahead of GT7! And the water effects! Omg! Insanely photo realistic! Well done turn 10, well done.
does anyone remembers Rallisport challenge 20 years ago - that game was some rally racing with great graphics too
When thinking about simulation racing games in this console generation, it’s not unreasonable for your first thought to be “Forza”. Microsoft’s first-party sim-racer series has been wildly successful, and for many of us, it’s been the go-to franchise for quite some time. But simulation racing games weren’t always synonymous with Forza; there was a time when Polyphony Digital’s hardcore series, Gran Turismo, reigned supreme. While the long-time franchise continues to sell exceptionally well, there’s no doubt that it isn’t the young, spry series it used to be.
It doesnt suck but I would love to see a return to form with GT7. Sport is such a departure that it can turn some people off. It has gotten better over time but it's still no match for a proper GT7.
Sport is awesome for what it is...
However, polygon built a whole new engine and the tech is still being worked on...
I understand it is easy to praise a cookie cutter because it release the same game over and over with rotations of maps and cars...
But this engine polygon has designed does more for things other than gaming.
Repetitive old engines with new makeup does not make anyone king.
Gt7 will be most likely in two years with 120fps and ray tracing because their new engines are ready now.
It decided to focus on racing rather than cars and in the gaming world, racing = gameplay.
Good I guess selling millions of copies and have OFFICIAL FIA license races and Esports means it sucks
We just don't get it every year which is why ms also delayed next forza. You can't keep making yearly sequels. Quality and innovation takes time
GT sports at launch to now it's a different game and support has been free
GT games have always sold millions of copies and what's so innovative about GT sport? It's a racing game FFS.
The online championships and tournaments alone offer more innovation than any racer this gen🤷♂️ then you also get the live ones in New York etc with proper race like commentary, something else no other sim has done before. It sells millions because it's the best, simple really.
IRetrouk
I'm not even sure why think that having proper like race commentary or championships and tournements is innovative but I'll play along... GT Sport was released in 2017 so how do explain that this video https://www.youtube.com/wat... from 2016 exists?
It became the best online racing community for console players and its an amazing achievment.
@solidgamerX That's really not very impressive. Somebody with an interest in cars plays racing games and becomes a race car driver. That's like saying "look at this guy, he played COD and now he's in the military"
SolidGamerX
You must think that we're all stupid enough to believe that a game will turn anyone into a professional racing driver.
FORZA!!! AAHAHHAHA !! Haven't i schooled you on this already before! You're still spewing nonsense on this threaddd looool
Forza has always been better online than. GT and still is. Great to see PD try something different with GTS but let's face it this gen sonys racing games have been poor this then compaired to what Microsoft has had to offer. Forza 7 is one of the best racing games on xbox and pc but for me Horizon 3 and 4 have set the bar this gen. Of all the things microsoft got wrong this gen 2 of its racing games got a lot right and others are now playing catchup.
It's debatable which is the better game. To me, Forza has the upper hand.
But in terms of online community and events? Ha. Don't lie to yourself just because you don't like Playstation.
SolidGamerX
You didn't need to confirm what I already knew: if you didn't think that we're all stupid you wouldn't make such stupid comments that only those that are dead from the neck up will agree with.
Did he say gt could turn anyone into a racer? No he didnt, he asked what game has done it like gt has, which is true, gt academy done it throughout gt5 for a start. You need to do some research fella, cause your wrong.. again.
And lmao at element and the downplay, not even similar you crazy man, not even similar🤣 you realise gt has turned gamers into drivers from gt5? Go look at gt academy and tell me how that would be anything like someone playing cod and then joining the army, the downplay in gt articles is funny.
So you think he learned the required skills playing video games? I remember when people claimed children were learning how to operate guns because of video games, do you think that's also true?
Two completely different things and you know it, it is a fact that gt has helped real gamers become real race drivers, the proof is easily available online and I'm not going round searching for links that has been posted many, many times before on this subject, Go and look at gt academy like I mentioned and you can see for yourself, they start out on gt and go from there, so yes the game gran turismo teaches you some driving techniques, now if you can find me a link where someone has been playing cod and went on to become a war hero, please let me know because I couldnt find anything, also do you have a link to where cod has a program to train soldiers? Like cod academy or something?, I couldnt find one of those either, maybe when you do then your comparison will actually make sense.
IRetrouk
You mean the GT academy that provides training and licenses for a person to become a professional racing driver? The GT academy is how you go from being an average driving joe to become a professional racing driver not GT the game.
GT owns the console sim racing scene in my area and around the world. Just ask a real race car drivers
https://youtu.be/2pC3-eCAdv...
You forget that there are two Forzas, Forza Motorsport and Forza Horizon, which aims at different audiences.
The usual response from someone insecure that feels their favorite racing game is nowhere near as good as it once was. I really liked Gran and played them all. Loved the Vector from part 2. But the franchise is not the same.
Yea Forza took over and is now the best sim racer with motorsport and the best arcade racer with horizon. GT was the best but it has been falling short for a long time and I'm not saying gt games are bad but no where near king like it used to be. I'd say forza motorsport 3 was the forza that really upped the franchise and forza 4 was when forza became #1.
I remember the glory days of gt but those days are long gone but it's still a good game just not the best. Of course ps fans will never admit it because they will die before giving MS credit.
I do think they need some new creative heads in to give them some new perspectives, they seem stuck in a rut. It's a very high quality rut but they're still stuck in it.
The USA leg of the Gran Turismo World Tour is going on in New York right now. Go watch it guys, there's some damn good racing and crazy updates to come.
I've seen some of it before and to be fair it's not much different to watching real motorsport so credit to them for that.
Hey Dan you'd think the master of everything would at least have day/night cycles, and changing weather conditions.
This dude DB if I ever saw or heard one.
"The interviewer didn’t give up, and listed many sim racing features missing from Forza games or only partially simulated (repairs on the aerodynamics, full pit stops, realistic tire wear and fuel consumption, functioning drag tree), but Greenawalt minimized their importance, taking the chance to mention the upcoming cloud-based features.
'Fair points, but, but again, Forza (and 'Forza 5' in particular) offers so much more than these rather minor details and concerns from our niche brothers and sisters on the racing side of Forza life.'& quot;
...and yet GT gets nitpicked about engine sounds (while Forza's toilet sharts are defended to death).
Not quite... actually it's like the X1... Jack of all trades master of none!