Counting the cost of the PS4 and Xbox One

Megabits writes: "Xbox One is expensive... but the PS4 isn't dramatically cheaper. Factor in a few other issues too and it's perhaps not as clear cut as you'd think"

[aceitman]

Really , even if Sony threw in the cam it would be 50 $cheaper I'm sure Sony will eat 20 on the cam plus other bundles are in the works. And what Sony is giving is like always a choice . The kinect was a choice on the 360 there was no articles like this about it. And that's what ms should have done.

[NewMonday]

other than Kinect, this is how Sony is getting away with stronger hardware for $100 less.:

- smarter architecture in the PS4

- Sony's better experience as a hardware company in parts procurement and assembly management.

- XB1 more complicated to engineer and assembly

- bad manufacturing management and scheduling lead to the yield problems that raise cost of xb1.

[headblackman]

that's a stronger base hardware architecture, that taps out when the system reaches its limits. the Xbox one has a strong base hardware architecture as well but its designed to take full advantage of cloud computation, which will free up a lot of system power. for instance, the cloud can take up 60% or higher of the brunt force or workload of the development of a game, which leaves a lot more for the system to be able to do much more. with cloud computing, it will allow the Xbox one to get stronger as they increase the power of the cloud. think of the Xbox one as the hulk. the mader the hulk gets,the bigger and stronger he gets. the more they beef up the power of the cloud, the bigger and stronger the power of the Xbox one will get which also means that the actual system won't have to use as much of its own base power. so in a nutshell, the only limit to the Xbox one will be determined by the cloud.

[NewMonday]

oh?!

is their a breakdown on how this actually happens outside of the imagination with an actual demonstration ?

like how DICE explained the use of the CELL with Battlefield 3..

http://www.slideshare.net/D...

[Gamefan12]

#headblackman

I got a bridge I can sell you

hopefully you get that

[King_Slayer]

headblackman,

I have $100 million in overseas banks scattered throughout Europe. Consider it my "cloud" money. Unfortunately I am unable to transfer this money. With your help I will give you 20% ($20 million). All I need is your bank account numbers, social security number, and anything else that can help me steal your identity and all your money. So what ya say??? You in???

[JetP0619]

@ headblackman, keep using that term " power of the cloud " too bad they cant rely on it now, NOW that they did a complete 180 about the system not having to connect online all the time. Your power of the cloud cant help you now and all that EXTRA processing power will take a huge toll on XBOX's significantly weaker RAM.

[TheXgamerLive]

Wow, nothing of whay you said was even remotely true. Xbox One is a 3 in 1 and then some and you really dont have a clue.

[sAVAge_bEaST]

^headblackman^^ how much more smoke do you want to blow up are arse , while towing-the company line?
hulkee, harr, har,

[Saigon]

@headblackman

I am so tired of this cloud computing comment. Now that the DRM policies are moot...How does it improve a console that is not applied online? This is saying that the user applies the one time connection and then disables online functions afterwards.

[FamilyGuy]

MS wants to sell X1 at a significant profit, that's all there is to it.

[dantesparda]

Another fanboy driven blog/website trying to fool us into believing their bullsh!t. Yeah, he's trying to tell us that the ps4 isnt really a $100 cheaper because ps eye costs $59 and ps plus $50 a yr, so therefore, there goes your $100 savings. Funny though, he never mentions that you have to pay $60 for live and we all know that ps eye is not needed. An obvious fanboy with an obvious agenda. FAIL!!!

and headblackman and xgamer, you two are naive and gullible little fanboys, how embarassing

Now if Sony could just get a cloud

[psyxon]

@headblackman what the hell is brunt force? and lol @ "increase the power of the cloud". i honestly died laughing.

[Parapraxis]

" the only limit to the Xbox one will be determined by the cloud."
And since the cloud is just PR bullshit, the console will be limited by it's hardware, as every other gaming platform has been.

Ta Da.

If the cloud was such a viable system for boosting performance, an all digital platform such as Steam would have been all over it years ago.
Yet you don't see Valve proclaiming that if you games on Steam, with the power of the cloud, your PC can now render 1000000 more polygons.

[pete007]

Are you a programmer? Give us facts, dont come story us. Xbox is far better optimized and msft are kings of compression/decompression and other thread optimisations. Last gen spoke loud. And dont Come With the ram Shit over cause e3 showed no diffrences on the graphics department btwn both
@mariahellfu**ktura

[nukeitall]

Fact of the matter is beyond the hardware there are huge cost investment into research and development of software in addition to the infrastructure needed for the cloud.

Three OS, instant switching, smart matchmaking, and so on isn't free. Already from the outset, it seems MS has more features and an additional advanced Kinect.

So $100 isn't unreasonable for all of that. If you don't like it, don't buy it.

However, remember how MS transformed their Xbox 360 multiple times with dashboard updates. Who would have thought it would do what it does today back then?

Back then it was a dumb gaming console and today, it is the equivalent of a smart phone.

[Ju]

The "cloud". Don't make me laugh. It's thin air. Really. All that is some form of compute "farm" and some APIs to harness that compute performance. Basically a warehouse with some computers inside (= servers).

What you think what PS3 game streaming is, BTW? Games running in said warehouse streamed over the "cloud".

And everything else goes over some form of IP protocol - every freaking front end which runs over it. So, I guess Sony has a cloud.

You can build your own or lease resources. MS isn't the only one running this.

On the contrary, the Xbone has no HW accelerated networking - while, ta taa, the PS4 does. Incl. HW to de/compress that said streamed game - what do you think why they can record a game with 0 (that is "zero") performance hit on that HW and "share" it instantly? (no, those "Move Engines" are not it).

[swerve121]

Everyone keeps talking about how much more powerful the PS4 is. They also said that last gen but did you guys see any differences?

[King_Slayer]

swerve121

I play both consoles. I will play both next-gen as well. As for the current gen?? Yes I saw a difference in comparing 360 exclusives to PS3 exclusives. The reason I would compare just the exclusives is because they are optimized to get the most out of each console.

[MariaHelFutura]

Hardware

- The PS4 has better specs and is cheaper.

Controllers

- The PS4s battery is built in internally, the Xbox One requires AA or you to purchase a battery pack.

Online Paywalls

- The PS4 gives you 50 games a year, discounts, free themes, avatars etc.

Power Consumption

- The PS4 is smaller and doesn't require an infared camera.

Free 2 Play and Apps

- F2P games on PS4 are not blocked by any paywalls, neither are the apps you're purchase.

Result

- Nothing new here PS4 wins by a landslide like usual.

[HammadTheBeast]

And the PS4 doesn't have an ugly f****** power brick.

[jcnba28]

PS4 should be $299 since it doesn't have free online or backwards compatibility.

[patsrule316]

The PS4 does NOT give you 50 games a year. They said 1 a month (the first of which is a scaled down version of Drive Club, followed by some of the indy games in the next few months). You are counting PS3 and Vita in the 50 games a year.

And If you are counting both the 'free games you get with plus) then there is no point in arguing for free games behind the paywall, because in both consoles, you are counting the subscription cost for the network, which balances out.

You are also counting several non hardware related pluses of PS4 and not mentioning any of the XB1 pluses, like HDMI pass through, improved matchmaking system, multitasking, etc. On PS4's side, you could have also added remote play on the vita (which actually is part of the hardware discussion), and self publishing for indies.

I preordered the PS4 over the XB1, but in the interest of fairness, it isn't as big a landslide as you are making it out to be.

[MariaHelFutura]

NO. You get the instant game collection right away which is 8-10, One or sometime 2-3 (like this month) retail games a month and 1-2 indie games a month always.

[--Onilink--]

if I were you, I would seriously lower my expectations for PS+ on PS4 for the 1st year or so.

With NO PS3 GAME WHATSOEVER supported on PS4, they catalog of free games they can offer is going to starting from 0. Thats the reason why the Driveclub version offered is a limited version.

So while PS+ is amazing on PS3, it will take quite some time to take off on PS4, expect mostly free indie games

[AyKKon]

"Controllers

- The PS4s battery is built in internally, the Xbox One requires AA or you to purchase a battery pack. "

I dont get whats the fuss with AA batteries. There are rechargeable AA batteries you know? If they run out I just buy new ones. What happens if the PS4's controler breaks?

[MariaHelFutura]

I agree, it's gonna be tough at first. But, I've already heard games like Outlast and other indie titles are going to free to PS+, also Sony giving Driveclub regardless of in being edited shows a pretty good initiative for the beginning of PS+ on the PS4.

[patsrule316]

"NO. You get the instant game collection right away which is 8-10, One or sometime 2-3 (like this month) retail games a month and 1-2 indie games a month always."

The instant game collection you are talking about is for PS3, not PS4. If we are comparing PS4 to Xb1, the instant game collection is not part of the equation, because you cannot use the collection on the PS4. They said there would be 1 PS4 game a month, starting with the scaled down Drive Club, followed by some of the indie games in the following month.

[Jaces]

Aykkon:

What if the xbox controller breaks? What if you lose your rechargeable batteries, what if.

It's just nicer overall to have a controller that you can recharge and not worry about anything else. That and it's cheaper in the long run.

[I_AM_ CANADIAN_1989]

Yeah this upcoming gen I'm noticing I'm maturing as a gamer I no longer feel the point to care if xbots like the ps4. I just realized that no matter how good of a console Sony makes they're brand loyalty to ms will always control them. On paper ps4 is clearly better and if some people can't see that then it's fine with me all I know is my friends will buy ps4 Aswell as me. If you like the ps4 you can't be a fanboy, it's logical to want the ps4 it's cheaper it's higher quality in every way besides possibly in software( but that can always be tweaked with firmware) so it's no big deal. I don't want casuals on my platform so if u want to watch tv on a gaming console then enjoy your Xbox one. I'm glad Xbox one exist it'll do well at weeding out the casuals and little kids that are gullible enough to believe the bs of kinect round 2. I don't think ps4 will be better then my gaming pc as far as hardware is concerned but since my gaming started on a console ( Super Nintendo, fav games nhl 88 to 99, and that zombie game.) I'll never turn my back on it and I will appreciate the many brilliant exclusives that Sony will give me. It's clear ms just wants your money if you can't see that you deserve to get bent over by ms. We've all warned the xbots about ms and made the truth about exactly what the ps4 has to offer known and if they still choose to ignore our warnings then that's they're problem and it just means they were never meant to be part of our community.

[unchartedxplorer]

@patsrule In the first month alone we will be getting Don't Starve and Outlast for free. That alone makes me pretty excited for ps plus

[TheXgamerLive]

Wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong. You speak but its all incorrect oh and the Xbox One controler well read again little man

[dcbronco]

@MariaHelFutura

How many accounts do you have to have to bump up your bubble count within the same thread? Based on the number of agrees you typically get I'm assuming it's around ten.

[sAVAge_bEaST]

@AyKKon

-they don't -the internal battery is just as strong as the day i bought it.. even with a ton of half-ass recharge.

[psyxon]

@patsrule316 sigh. dude, you don't understand what you're talking about lol. "instant game collection" applies to all of sony's current platforms, not just ps3, ps vita, or ps4. currently we receive games monthly for ps3 and ps vita. but once the ps4 arrives, we'll receive games for ps3, vita and ps4. and it'll work like this.

3 ps3 games
2 ps vita games
1 ps4 game

note: the amount of games are an estimate based on information sony's released so far.

instant game collection DOESN'T work like this:

5 ps3 games
5 vita games
5 ps4 games

as that's just silly.

SO, when you say that instant game collection doesn't apply to ps4 and only applies to ps3 & vita, you're wrong, as it applies to all of their platforms out.

[dantesparda]

@patsrule

"You are also counting several non hardware related pluses of PS4 and not mentioning any of the XB1 pluses, like HDMI pass through, improved matchmaking system, multitasking, etc. On PS4's side, you could have also added remote play on the vita (which actually is part of the hardware discussion), and self publishing for indies."

Who cares about the hdmi pass through? Its pointless/useless for gaming and how do know how good sony's matchmaking is? and multitasking? more like wasting precious resources (3 gigs of ram and cpu cycles) on sh!t like kinect and windows 8. And you honestly think the ps4 doesnt multitask? etc!

@jcnba
And i think the X1 should be $350 and the wii u $250

@Aykkon
If the battery goes on the ps4/ps3 controller then you just unscrew a few screws on the back of the controller and BAM! there's the battery and its easy to take out and replace. An you can buy them for like $10. You are capable of unscrewing a few screws, right? or is that to much for you? Also, i had the same ps3 controller since 2007 and its still kicking and still gives me days and days of gameplay on a full charge. So its not a problem, but nice try!

@ i am canadian
Well said

@xgamer
was that even human? none the less english? help!

@dcbronco
he/she will tell you as soon as you tell him/her how many you have. And then i'll tell youse both how big is mine

and @gameonbro
I dont even know bro,... i just dont know

[Benchm4rk]

@I am canadian.

You speak of add on like Sony has never done it. I remember buying an Xbox with a built in hard drive while the PS2 were forced to buy memory cards for $70 ( here in oz ). And saying PS2 games looking better than Xbox that's just crazy. And using black as an example. I had proven time and time again to my friends with ps2's that the Xbox had way better graphics. Even the most die hard PS2 fans back in the day couldn't argue when it was right in front of them. I know it might be a bitter pill to swallow. Yes the PS2 was a massive success. What it did was prove that you don't have to be the most powerful console to succeed. Something people have forgotten now. You all think cause the ps4 is sooo much more powerful (which it isn't, only slightly) that it will automatically conquer this gen. I think you will probably find it will be another close one like this gen. Only time will tell

[HolyDuck]

@Jaces, what if your charger breaks though? No controller until you get a new one.

[Caffo01]

@jcnba28
"PS4 should be $299 since it doesn't have free online or backwards compatibility. "

LOL and the X1 has free online? and backwards compatibility?

If you think the ps4 is $100 overpriced the the x1 is $200 overpriced.

[I_AM_ CANADIAN_1989]

@benchmark umm you do realize I had the Xbox 1 not the ps2 and your right about xbox 1 hardware being more powerful, but did I say that ps2 had better hardware I said games looked better alot of multiplats looked terrible on Xbox. And what I was talking about was how ms started with add ons and to this day they are continuing whereas Sony may have with the ps2 add ons where acceptable at that time but unlike ms sony actually knows how to grow in a healthy direction as a conpany, and as you know they stopped doing it for the ps3 And ps4 hence by adding removable laptop HDD's and doing away with memory cards, adding Bluetooth support, adding built in power supplies , adding built in rechargeable lithium ion batteries in their controllers with a common well used cheap chord for charging. You can even use a USB extender chord to add more distance ;)they included blu ray no add ons buddy. And they continue with the ps4. You clearly couldn't argue with my actual points so you found your own and argued that instead.
@gameonbro lol ps4 is double the power and if that's not good enough of an answer for I'm sure naughty dog will gladly give you another answer. Also owning four platforms "ain't nobody got time for that " just cause you can afford something doesn't mean it makes sense to buy it. Geez you think owning all consoles makes you an unbiased god no it makes you bad with money. I work 240 hrs a month so forgive me for deciding with logic which console is worth my time. Your not a fanboy but you are a stupid irresponsible consumer. You either play no games or you have no life outside of virtual reality. Pc and ps4 is the perfect choice for next gen buying all 4 is just unrealistic and unhealthy. Enjoy your lack of being able to make decisions in life.

[DonFreezer]

Noone cares about whitch is cheaper except for the casual sheep.Now about the power the first Xbox destroyed the ps2 and almost twice and a half the power of a same gen machine but still ended up in last place.
http://wars.locopuyo.com/cw...
The thing is that ps4 is maybe 10 to 15% more powerful than the Xbox One when the first Xbox was 150% more powerful.So shut your fucking ps droned mouth and go cry somewhere else about power.We are talking about the same cpu and gpu with just some improvemnets to the PS4 whereas the first Xbox had double and a half the cpu clock rate and almost double the gpu.

[I_AM_ CANADIAN_1989]

Xbox 1 was the size of an amp and you had to buy a 60 dollar DVD remote to play DVDs ms were always sneaky snakes, oh and by the way I couldn't afford the ps2 at launch and by the time I saved enough money all my friends switched to Xbox 1 and halo 2 so I bought the Xbox 1 with halo 2 and had a ton of good gaming moments on that machine, but I must say games looked way better on ps2 black was a good example. And ms's buy our media remote and we'll let you play DVDs was absolutely bullshit. Even from the start ms were arrogant proprietary whores. Anyway to make a quick add on buck ms are king. It all started with that remote, and online, then it continued with battery packs, play and charge kits way over priced limited HDD's, add on now extinct 200 dollar HD-DVD player, over priced controllers headsets etc, 129 dollar wireless adapter, 200 dollar kinnect, ads on the xbox 360, when it comes to ms everything is proprietary. Ms's consoles were always built around profits and not ease of use for the consumer. It only took me 1 Xbox to figure all that out, how many xbox's will it take you??

[MasterCornholio]

Actually the GPU isn't the same between the two consoles. Even though they are both made by the same firm the PS4s GPU contains more cores than the Xbox Ones GPU and with its extremely light operating system (in comparison to the 3 operating systems that the Xbox One has) the actual power difference between the two is about 50% with the PS4 being the most powerful and easiest system to develop for. Since Sony decided to not bundle their camera with the PS4 they are able to undercut the Xbox Ones price by 100$.

In the end not only is the PS4 more powerful its also cheaper than the Xbox One by a huge amount. I agree with you that the casuals don't car about power but the cheaper price tag is more than enough to convince them to choose a PS4 over an Xbox One.

Motorola RAZR i

[T2]

@iamcanadian - good posts dead on right you are - ms always has a hundred proprietary add ons ... And hey ps4 is 399 cdn! No 50 dollar price jack this time!

[McScroggz]

The PS4 is at least %50 more power, and that's if the rumors that Microsoft might need to downclock the Xbox One is false.

The Xbox was much more powerful, but the PS2 was coming off a stellar console cycle and followed it by having a ton of great games and a DVD/CD player. The Xbox had no brand recognition and other than Halo: CE not many wide-appealing games.

At the end of the day, the most important thing is games. Games aren't the only thing that is important, but generally what sways gamers long term. Power is important because it can mean one console consistently getting better multiplatform games.

Regardless, price is a key factor and you are delusional if you think it doesn't matter. To the early adopters it doesn't, but for years to come a price difference could result in more sales for the cheaper console and subsequently possibly more attention from developers.

[DarkHeroZX]

The ps4 is actually more than %50 more powerful than the X1. MS confirmed that 10% of of the GPU, 2 CPU cores, and 5 out of 8 of its sucky ram available for its games. Not only that but Sony also confirmed that they will be doing cloud gaming. So X1 has no edge . plus not every game will use cloud. Less than half will probably end up even using cloud.

[HolyDuck]

@Jaces What if your cable breaks though? No charging until you find a new one.

[alb1899]

I think it is ok that kinect is there as in the ipad you have a camera without choice, what is the problem?
you are giving a tool to developers that they can really use because every X1 will have it so there will be good sells.....you can not say the same about PS4 and the eye toy.
Kinect cost is not 100, is 150 so i know Microsoft is eating a lot of the cost of the X1.
Kinect will be good now that has more precision in every way, stop the hate and buy your PS4 if this is a problem for you.
As a gamer ill buy both.

[moparful99]

Kinect has proven to be useful for nothing more then voice control. There isn't a single Kinect game that justifies the forced inclusion and subsequent $100 price difference. Just like sixaxis on the ps3 proved to be a nice augmentation to games instead of a new control standard Kinect just isn't worth it.

[alb1899]

Then don't buy it. I will because for me it is useful.

[Unknow_Master]

@acitman
I agree if sony add pseye, but if ms remove Kinect then the price should match because ms was selling their Kinect for like 150(overprice much?)

[Nathaniel_Drake]

Here's the thing though don't you need the kinect to power on the xbone. So it's a need, the PS4 doesn't need it, so it shouldn't be a reason that it will raise the cost of the ps4, also saying now that PSN cost $50 now it brings it closer the price, did I miss something is Xbox live free now? The price difference so far is still the same ps4 is still 100 cheaper the article is not written well at all.

For the controller argument I still have the sixaxis that came with 60 gig fat ps3 and mine was manufactured in Nov 2006 and it still recharges and works, look MS sucks in providing convinience hardware wise they always have to where you have to spend later on, same goes with the 360 remember HDMI or wifi or he drives?

[Sometimes]

Ya but the Sony Camera sucks

[3-4-5]

If PS4 drops price $50 at some point ( which it will)..

XB1 will have to drop price $150 just to stay even in price.

Think about what that will do to their profits.

I'm almost positive PS4 will always be cheaper this gen.

[SDS Gamerfiend]

Did anyone ever think that MS are making us pay for the blu-ray drive royalty that they have to pay sony lol.

[mxrider2199]

y else do you think its so much more expensive thay have to make a profit on it and since there is a royalty they bend us over for a POS isnt it a slow ass blu ray drive anyways?? Didnt people bitch about the bluray being slow in the ps3?? Is this one the same or slower than the ps3 blu ray drive?? cus if it is that would be sad

[strifeblade]

lol you are a fool to think sony is the sole owner of blue ray. do you know how many companies are involved in developing bluray? more than you can count. did u know ms developed a codec that bluray uses and as a result actually get royalty themselves? did u know sony pays other companies involved in the development of bluray for royalties? Geez the stupidity on this site

@mxrider2199
ps3 did have a slow drive, ps4 has 6 times the speed of ps3 driveas well as the xbox one having 6 times the speed. Your sad because you are an uneducated fool. Why would speed matter anyway? on the x1 its being read directly from the hardrive- ie faster than sony can read games off the disc on ps4. Truly uneducated rabbid fanboys all over this site.

[showtimefolks]

So basically ps4 is cheaper and is more powerful, Sony's Long time gaming experience shows ps4's price and power

[Bojeeva]

The sad fact is, they will sell whatever the price. Hardcore gamers aside, if you're willing to spend hundreds of $ on a console, would families etc go for the one with all the so-called "extras" like TV integration and the new souped up Kinect, or one that focuses mainly on games? Just a question

[nveenio]

The biggest problem with Microsoft's vision is that TV is on its way out. I ditched Cable TV almost 7 years ago, and I know more and more people are doing it every day. We watch via instant streaming now. That's the direction we're moving. So Xbox One may have a bunch of TV features, but it isn't any more future-proof than the PS4, because both will have streaming. (Also, the PS4 does app switching, too.) So Xbox One may be enticing to people who love Cable or Satellite TV, but it's a NOW console...not a forward-thinking console.

[FateoftheGame]

Great point. I have a Smart TV that streams more stuff than I can keep up with. Why the hell would I need a console to do this for me?

Case in point, running Netflix on my Smart TV is a lot more convenient than doing it on my 360.

[Brasi1989]

How do you watch live TV?

[nveenio]

I don't watch live TV. At all. Why would I? The Oscar's don't interest me, and I'm not really into sports. Those are the only two reasons I could imagine watching live TV.

I get news from the web. I stream my favorite shows. Netflix gives me movies.

The only things I have to pay extra for are a few favorites that cost individually, like HBO shows and such. But even paying for those separately gives me a lower bill than cable. Plus it's more convenient.

[lawgone]

Sorry, but you're in the minority by a very large margin. Only a very small fraction have "cut the cord" so to speak. TV is NOT on its way out.

[saint_seya]

Im like you, i mean i have Direct tv hd with 3d channels and the recording thing, and tbh only watched a few football games and the nba finals. Every show, movie, news, anime or w/e i watch it online.
Only my parents and brother use the tv on my house, and mostly cuz they dun like to use internet #my parents are really old# and my brother cuz ik i play online most of the time and that would make me lag a lot #since my net is crap.
I see more and more people that watch everything on internet, even sports are starting to be streammed live online.

[Jazz4108]

But still people were upset a ms for trhing to go digital and require and internt. The good thing is it still wontt hurt most games as they require internet anywahs and if you dont think addi g 300000 servers to azure you have to be very limited on cloud and ms azures its already showed with titanfall and dead risingwhat can be done and the ps4 cant do it unless the invest billions in over ten years putting up the servers all over the world. Sony is betting there entire co on ps4. If it fails Sony will fall hard.

[thehitman]

Problem is the initial gamers ONLY care about gaming mostly the hardcore people want the games first and everything second so if that extra $ doesnt benefit their gaming experience they will opt of of it. I dont even have cable I watch all my favorite shows through streams so xb1 wouldnt even appeal to me at all. A lot of people are ditching cable and just use their tablet/PCs as the media hub to get all their entertainment. Also to use all those features I am sure you need XBL which is another extra added cost where Sony apps dont require PS+ which is why Netflix became more popular on PS3.

[FrightfulActions]

Sure the Kinect has potential but it also relies on the assumption that everyone has a big, mostly empty room with plenty of space between themselves and the kinect sensor.

I'm willing to wager that the average person does not have so much clear vacant room between themselves and their console.

Also, just a little sidenote, not all games will need Plus. Free to play titles, for example, seem to be, well, free. So it isn't like you'd not be able to play online at all. Just restricted. Compared to how Xbox wont even let you watch Netflix without gold I'd say its significantly different enough to not be considered the same boat as Xbox Live.

No matter how you look at it, PS4 still does more for less. More of a fact than an opinion, really.

[Insomnia_84]

Compare the games, exclusive new and old IP's. You will be surprised how weak the XBone looks compared to PS4.

PS4 is the best place to play no doubt about it.

All of Sony's Exclusives and new IPs
Free 2 Play games
Indie games
Gaika making it possible for new comers to experience past games before getting a sequel (The Last Of Us comes to mind :D)
Remote Play with PSVita
The online social and sharing integration with nee features in the system itself.

It's all about GAMING with the PlayStation 4 and of course there's the bonus video services.

When it comes to the best gaming, PS4 is where it's at. This is common sense, facts, no fanboy stuff. Just compare them bit by bit and the difference is huge.

[crazyeightz]

When comparing game selection between two consoles as to which has better lineups, it will never be facts, common sense, no fanboy stuff. It will always be opinions, and fanboy stuff. Some may see the lineup on the xbox as far superior and vice versa. Trying to turn those opinions into facts is pointless.

[Brasi1989]

"When it comes to best gaming, PS4 is where it's at." That is neither common sense, nor fact, but screams fanboy. It's all a matter of opinion. Some people love Mario, some people love Halo, and some people love Uncharted. Just because you fall in the latter doesn't mean it's a fact.

[mxrider2199]

@ brasi no it is a fact because the ps4 has more categories to choose from for anyone to love not a select personal opinion for a few titles on that console

[ShaunCameron]

@ mxrider2199

No. It's opinion, no matter how many categories are there to choose from. Especially if a person is not interested in most of the categories that the PS4 covers. Quantity =/= quality.

[EasilyTheBest]

I really can't agree with your comment the PS4 still does more for less.
Having Kinect mandatory gives the X1 a ton of extra possibilities. From day one out of the box the X1 will definitely be able to do more than the PS4. Now that is a fact.

[Mikelarry]

@ easilythebest

this is not a troll comment but for discussion sake could you list some of these functions the xbox one will be able to do on day one over the ps4

[M-M]

@Mikelarry Don't even bother, he's a known troll.

[EasilyTheBest]

Hi Mike, I don't think you are a troll at all,
I sometimes really find it difficult to understand how people can't think up anything that a gesture and voice controller can't add.
Coming home from work, say Xbox on, play music Enya. While your in kitchen making a sandwich. Sit down say, Latest news, up pops news. There is a ton of variations of this. Forza on the 360 was great, I loved playing forza with a steering wheel but having Kinect track my head so I could look into the corners of roads, I'm hoping this will be even better with the X1.
How about playing a game and a mate skypes you. You answer and he sends you a link to a map of the game, you can click on link then open it and follow the map onscreen while you play seem less.
There's a ton of similar variations on this too. As you could have a tv program and your X1 could work a little like the Bbc red button. PS4 can't do this as it hasn't got HDMI in.

cooguy, I hardly ever post, I must be a very under paid troll. Because I like the X1 is it.

[Mikelarry]

@easily

fair point as it seems you are the target audience ms is going for with kinect bundled. but i feel they should also offer options. as great as some users find motion tech there are some users don't want this and cant justify why they should be paying a $100 dollar more

[Themba76]

kinect is a worthless piece of crap and a stupid gimmick.

[darkslayer208]

@EasilyTheBest
just stop fooling yourself ... Kinect is nothing but a nuisance

[cemelc]

Ps4 comes with a mic so voice comands could be done on ps4 if needed.

Aside from that I think is a really good idea to answer call from skype with kinect but truth be told that is not enhancing the game but a nice feature.

Also they could put the option in games for head tracking and have the games detect if you have the camera or not

[oscarcat59]

I agree if the Kinect works as well as we believe. I for one have high hopes that it will. And everyone forgets the Xbox one uses the widow kernel and hyper v which will allow multitasking and apps to be better. I for one will not talk bad about either console because I believe both are fine products in their own way. And will get both. To the fanboys on both sides kiss my (well you know what) I will enjoy all the games not just half of them. Lol

[FrightfulActions]

Yeah its is mandatory but you're not paying less for it. You're paying more for it. If you wanted kinect-like features of motion control you could buy a Playstation eye and still end up paying less.

Though I grant you all that television-intergrated stuff is, so far, only something Xbox is doing. If thats your boat then you're the target audience.

If PS4 and Xbox were the same price I would grant you to some players the kinect makes the Xbox more 'bang for your buck', if you're into that. But they're not the same price. For the amount you pay you get more out of the PS4 for a cheaper price. It's hard to say you get more for less on the Xbox when you, infact, are paying more for that camera they're forcing on you.

[Insomnia_84]

What people should really take in consideration is what's inside every console and see if the price is justified.

Do that and see how overpriced the XBone is. Even more when you are paying for a gimmik like kinect without having any option.

[Wintersun616]

True.

Also I find it odd that many people forget to think about the actual value of the features you're getting. PS+ has incredible value with it's Instant Game Collection. I have saved a lot of money with it and the same trend seems to continue with the PS4 because we're already getting DriveClub on release. Albeit a bit stripped down version.

[jeffgoldwin]

I agree on the gimmickness of Kinect but my kids kinda like it. I have no interest in it mind you.

But at the same time, that ps4 touchpad is just as gimmicky and useless (in my opinion).

[Mikelarry]

this is where it all comes down to what kind of gamer you are and how much you are willing to spend.

if you are a gamer not interested in motion gaming, having kinect with your console is not going to all of sudden make you want to play kinect games. sony thought about this and offered ps4 gamers the option to get the add on if they wanted to. i do see the point ms is taking because if kinect is bundled it will give developers the incentive to want to support the device.

the price is also a big factor when the ps3 launched in the uk it struggled at 425 pounds the xbox 1 in the uk is 429. it is going to be a tough sell

[pedrof93]

Truth is that no one cares about KINECT.

[Blackdeath_663]

i said this before i don't deny that kinect has impressive tech crammed into it but i don't see how any of it is applicable in gaming. microsoft should push their tech in other areas where it is actually useful like hospitals for example or as a learning aid for those who have difficulties at school instead of desperately convincing gamers that waving and shouting at your tv is somehow easier than pressing one button on a remote.they are seriously limiting its possibilities by making it foucused on a games console they should make the kinect more open. not only that to force it by making it mandatory there is just no logic in that decision.

[jeffgoldwin]

Some voice commands are kinda cool and could be effectively used more so than the touchpad. Still not worth the $100 to me, but I know of a few friends who play a few fps games on the 360 and like some voice commands that they do.

[Hicken]

With a speaker and mic jack built into the controller, and a headset in every box, voice command is JUST as easy on PS4, and doesn't require some crazy peripheral to work.

So that hundred dollars is REALLY not worth it.

[Supermax]

What about what you don't see in the box,wich console will have a more multiplayer experience.i look for things like that first,dedicated servers for bf4 I know has been confirmed for all platforms.games like gears has it but a franchise like halo does not I feel if you pay for online multiplayer then all multiplayer games should have it.peer to peer is crazy when playing a game of halo and someone leaves it stops the whole game for 2 minutes or more wile you wait to fill.next generation this cannot happen. Sorry for the frustration I just like smooth multiplayer experiences,what are your thoughts on this.

[from the beach]

I would have liked to see Sony bundle the camera, for the sake of £40 or so. I've already got a Move controller so as soon as a good game comes up (Media Molecule?) I'll buy it anyway.

[MariaHelFutura]

Yep. I'll be buying the camera when MediaMolecule game (LBP 3) comes out. BTW, the camera is super small. I just discovered that recently.

[slazer101]

Does anyone know if the PSeye for the PS3 will work for the ps4?

[FrigidDARKNESS]

Nope, contoller input is different.

[slazer101]

I know that but it still has usb ports which the pseye uses.

[mochachino]

The article included the price of Plus in it's argument but not the price of Live.

[AngryEnglish]

That's because you get 1 year of live for free with the console.....

[Hicken]

You only gonna play multiplayer for one year?

And even so, why not include all the stuff you get with Plus? It's not limited to PS4, but also includes PSP, PS3, and Vita. You're gonna get at LEAST a couple of games worth $50 for free with Plus, which more than offsets the cost.

[AngryEnglish]

@Hicken..... I didn't say PS+ wasn't good value, but the fact is that in the $499 you get the $60 Xbox live for a year, you don't get plus for a year with the ps4 console, but the offset is you pay $399 form the console.

But when you think of it that way I really don't think the X1 isnr all that badly priced

Ps4 with PS+ $450.... If you want the optional camera its $510, and yes I know the benefits of plus... I have it and just downloaded xcom for free

Xbox One with 1 year of live and and forced to own kinect $499

So they are both comparable in price when you look at it this way, remove the camera for ps4 and its $50 cheaper, but I don't think MS was crazy at $499, if they would have said $439 and no live I don't think price would have been much of a sour note... Its just $499 is abit of sticker shock if you get what I mean

[Hicken]

The price is comparable if you decide to add these things in, but the hardware inside the two machines is still not even. The fact is that you're still getting more powerful hardware for less.

I mean, are we talking straight-up cost? Are we talking value? I don't think we can talk one without the other, and if you try adding things to the PS4 to make it the same price as the XBOne, the value disparity goes off the scale.

[moparful99]

The $50 for PS+ is not applicable to current Plus members such as myself so again I am paying $100 less then XBONE purchasers. You cannot use PS+ to try and balance the equation if you aren't including Live... There are tons of variables in this department that change the initial investment.

[psyxon]

people are trying so hard.

[MariaHelFutura]

Their hurt trying to rationalize and make sense of what just happened, Figuring out a way to come to terms w/ things, even if involves lying to themselves and other people.

[greenlantern2814]

Most people I know who own Xbox360 and got it before Kinect came out never bought it, and the people I know who have it did not use it for long. So ask your self is the Kinect worth 100$? And stop bring up ps+ as away to make ps4 more expensive because if that makes ps4 more than Xbox1 really doesn't coast 500$ either it's more because you have to pay for Xbox live gold to. And some people seem to think ms will reduce the price or give it to you free but they won't. And ms said you can transfer your live account to Xbox1, but idk if you can use it for both 360 & 1' but I do know my 1 ps+ account works on ps3, ps4, and vita. So your argument is mute, less powerful system with unpopular Kinect for 100$ more and you still have to pay for live gold

[oscarcat59]

I remember when playing on line was free on the playstation now you have fees and rejoice. lol Also buying a vita adds what 300 dollars and that choice is cheaper? PS4 is a fine game machine but that is all it is for. Xbox one is trying to add more value to what you buy and many options such as Kinect, tv guide (by the way I know of no one that does not use cable tv) mutlitaskings, and I wonder what the apps will be because the windows kernel is used. If 100 dollars is too expensive maybe most here should not buy a game machine. With games here costing 60 bucks the way everyone is bitching about the price no one will be able to buy any games. lol I will be buying the ps4 not because of the hardware but games. The xbox one because of the features I find interesting and the games. And by the way no one knows what each system can do because no one has one. I thought a game console was for the delivery of the games which is what everyone gets the console for. Who real cares about brand loyalty. Give me a product I like and I am sold. So far both I find interesting and will buy both.

[greenlantern2814]

I have had a ps+ account since it came out, already have vita so not adding any to the price of the system plus you don't have to buy the vita.
The Xbox1 doesn't do anything a smart tv can't and I noticed you said you where getting both so good for you but to say if some one is not willing to spend the extra 100$ they should not get a gaming machines is ridiculous, do you have a car did yo buy the most expensive one you could get. What you can't afford a 65" 4k tv then maybe you should have a tv. Reality some people have to budget their money not every one can just buy what every they want
Also where I. My comment did I rejoice over having to pay for it now, just stated you have to pay for. Both so if one makes the system more expensive so does the other

[moparful99]

@Oscarcat59 Your comment is beyond the realm of reason.. You are taking OPTIONS and trying to use them as means to justify the asking price of the XBONE. I have the option to buy a vita(already own one) and PS+(1.5 years left in sub) You don't have the option to have Kinect, it's forced regardless of whether the consumer wants it or not. Now if Microsoft had two skus one with and one without Kinect and a price that reflected these options then this whole argument would be moot but the fact that Microsoft is attempting to remove choice from the equation is frankly insulting...

[Takwin]

I ditched cable (actually satellite, DirecTV) years ago for the trio of Netflix, Hulu Plus, and Amazon Prime. We were getting Amazon Prime before I even cared about streaming, as it's such a good deal for us (we spend hundreds on their monthly, including food).

$16 for streaming, and all we miss is CBS (which has a great app and can be torrented), and some live sports. Most NFL is on over-the-air TV. And NBA League Pass fills my NBA void.

Preordered my PS4, already have a WiiU, and won't stream jack on either one.

SPOILER ALERT: I buy gaming systems for. Wait for it. GAMES.

[FrigidDARKNESS]

Well, for those that are buying ps4 and wants to enjoy remote play via playstation Vita but don''t have one should add another 300.00 to the price tag.

[patsrule316]

I bought a vita on Black Friday last year for 180, and it came with Assassin's creed Liberation, PS Allstars Battleroyal, and 3 months of PS+. Its hard to find that deal right now, but it certainly doesn't cost $300.

[C-Thunder]

I'm missing your point.

[moparful99]

Again people have THE CHOICE to do so... It isn't forced on everyone regardless of whether they want a vita or not. You are missing the point of everyone's rage at Microsoft. If you want an XBONE you have to pay the additional $100 with Kinect included even if you have no intentions of using it..

[True_Samurai]

I prefer the X1 more features, TV integration, new adaptive controller, exclusive etc. Swap over to Netflix when I'm tired of playing the game and go back to it without losing where I'm at in the game. The new kinect has real good potential. People shouldn't really be bothered about what the other thinks of their choice.

[nypifisel]

It's called multi-tasking and PS4 got it too. How the hell does people use that as an argument?

[True_Samurai]

And that's the point X1 can do it also and that's all that matters hence why I said Xbox and not ps4 because what the ps4 has doesn't concern me none.

[nypifisel]

Well it's hardly an edge if everyone got it, now is it?

[AngryEnglish]

What people forget is that the "hardcore gamer" isn't the money maker, the masses are. Millions of people are still out there with the old Wii who have not adopted to the Wii U for numerous reasons, this is the market they are going for, they are also aiming at the armchair sports fan with NFL, and supposedly a premier league Tie in, that guy who has a passing interest in playing madden and/or Fifa.

As much as some of you dislike the Kinect they will be much more that will be intrigued and wanting it, neither console is a "games machine" both are entertainment hubs, both play blurays, social media, streaming movies, music, radio and whatever else they decide to develop over the coming years, they are machines that appeal to the masses, also don't forget the original Kinect was $150.... So average Joe will also see it as a good deal

Do I like Kinect? ..... Nope but I understand why it's there, what it's purpose is and why they did it.

Wanna talk about the last real "games console"? Try the N64, that's the last console as far as I can remember that did nothing other than play games

[C-Thunder]

But the hardcore gamer will be the early adopter. The one giving advice to the casual audience, their friends and family. Word of mouth is still the best marketing. Just look at how many times we've seen someone this gen say they got a 360 because their friends had one.... That will apply this gen too and with so many seeming to go with PS4 first, you'll likely see that casual audience go that way as well.

[AngryEnglish]

I'm not trying to sound like a dick here, but taking what you just said can you explain the 90 million Wii sales? Noway was that a device pushed by the "hardcore Gamer", that was marketed by Nintendo to the masses, the Wii is the unit that totally breaks the "gamer advice" argument

[C-Thunder]

AngryEnglish, you don't sound like a dick at all. I'd argue that the initial purchasers of the wii were hardcore people. Bought it for the Nintendo exclusives and when their family saw the thing, during the holidays, they went nuts for wii sports.

I think the one has potential to do something similar, but the key is to have it in gamer homes before the holidays and with a killer app for the casual audience. Right now, its got a few things going against it. Number one is the price, two is that there is currently no super family fun Kinect game coming with the system, three is that the wii audience they're trying to capture isn't necessarily on the lookout for a new system, they're the kind of people that jump on fads so if the one can't shake its current negative mindshare, it just won't have that fad appeal.

[AngryEnglish]

I can't fault your points.

But I wouldn't discount the marketing power of MS, come October I would expect an onslaught of advertising on all mediums, I remember the Kinect having something like $500 million for advertising, I would imagine they will do the same again at least.

They may have screwed up the launch but one thing MS can do is advertise, the new surface advertisement is proof of that... Not that the surface is all that appealing but you get where I coming from.

The run up to Christmas will be a media blitz I'm sure

[oscarcat59]

Good points and very hard not to agree with.

[moparful99]

Fair argument but I can't help but think if Microsoft can shed this negative stigma post E3. I mean they were blatantly called out on live tv by Sony and they reaction was very intense by public. I don't know if all of the MS marketing money can undo the damage. Maybe they can but its looking bleak so far...

[CGI-Quality]

Quite a one-sided article, no matter how the author thinks he can spin it. I doubt he defended the PS3 when its price tag was unveiled (the lower end being the same price as the X-One, mind you).

[PositiveEmotions]

I think even if ps4 came with the pseye it would still be cheap

[kennyg3739]

the new kinect is far more advanced the pseye so your probably right

[PositiveEmotions]

We dont know how advance the pseye is yet so its to early to judge.

[Mikelarry]

US with camera = $459 xbox with kinect = $499
UK with camera = £393 xbox with kinect = £429

[JessiePinkmanYo]

So if Sony threw in a couple of pounds of steaming horse crap would that win the debate of which is the best value? Name any game that utilizes kinect or eye toy that has any relevance beyond being a cheesy gimmick you show your non gamer friends. Motion controls are a gimmick, just as the virtual reality glasses were, same as ROB (Robotic Operating Buddy) on the NES back in the day, but we always return to the good old fashioned control. Also-yes, you'll have to now pay for P+ to play online, but did XBL become free last night? I must've missed that one. If you base your arguments from the points in this article, the Wii U is gonna win. God forbid you mention console exclusives and how each plays on either system, RROD lights or yellow lights of death (PS3). There are FAR too many unknowns yet. I got both on preorder so I guess come November ill find out.

[Steadyhndz]

"The PS4 isn't dramatically different"...it's a 20% difference for a console that is seemingly better hardware, but it doesn't come with a camera toy. What the hell do you want a 60% difference then we can say it's dramatically different? No.

This is a significant difference in price.

[Nafon]

I don't care what other people think about the kinect. I don't want the damn thing and shouldn't have to pay for it.

[assdan]

You're also not counting the fact that the PS4 has vastly superior hardware. Even if it's only $20 less with your BS calculations, it's still cheaper. Also, if you really want to factor in the cost of the online services, the price for xbox live is 20%($10) more a year. IF you get all the peripherals. So I get a mic for the xbox one because you can't say the the kinnect works as a mic. Everyone knows those are the gamers that get mutet, and for fairness the PS4 comes with one. So lowballing the price at $30, that still makes the XBone cost $70 more. Then for every year of each online service you get, the cost that you payed to keep the systems running widens by $10. So that was a little dumb to bring that into the debate.

[beastmode189]

i don't trust microsoft because they might at the drm back in 1 year and a half

[beastmode189]

sony cares about the costumer but microsoft are greedy and the only reason that they took away drm is that people were buying more ps4 then the xbox 1

[mrmarx]

"the power of the cloud" thats what makes it cost more. the kinect cost is offset by the weaker ddr3 ram..

[RedSoakedSponge]

that demonstration of the new kinect does look a lot improved over the first one, but it still has some glitchy bits i noticed. the thumbs mainly were glitching a lot.

[Gamingisfornerds]

Everyone is blaming Kinect, but I blame the bloody TV crap they included. That should've been a seperate SKU, because I don't need it and it's worthless in Europe anyway.

[isarai]

it is separate

http://www.vg247.com/2013/0...

[Gamingisfornerds]

Ah ok. Thanks for the info! Still not happy about the price though! :P

How would this work I wonder, through HMDI CEC?

[kB0]

Forcing a accessory on a customer especially from launch is bad business practice I don't care what you say:).

Let's not forget the online service also gives away free games:) Xbox is also doing the same thing, but haven't been anywhere near as generous.

[oweowe]

PS Eye has 2 cams. XBONE Kinect has 1 cam. 2>1
You will see better feature of PS Eye later. Mark my words.

[isarai]

HAHA what a BS article

[giovonni]

My thing is rabbit fans some how become gamestradamus. They some how have the consciousness to see into the future just from looking at a single paper containing specs. When in fact they have no idea how any of it will work, and assume failure because it lacks their interest or is not presented by their brand of choice. However, if the shoe was on the other foot it becomes bragging ammo. If ps4 came out the gate and said you can voice command power on/off functions and intergated it to your tv plus use cloud to enhance with ps eye already included for 499 it would be a piss feast of "ahhhh haaaaa, look what we have"

So I say that to say this. This is all subjective! the same people that are condemning will be the same people praising when it's added to their subject of choice. This is a never ending piss contest and to be honest, It's killing the gaming industry.