Why A Required PlayStation Plus Is Acceptable And XBox Live Is Not

Gamer-Rider.com writes: "For years now I myself, along with countless others, have criticized Microsoft for putting everything on the XBox 360, except for single player gaming, behind a paywall costing $60.00 a year. And to this very day, my stance on that hasn't changed. I believe that it is ridiculous to have to pay your ISP for an internet connection, then pay Netflix $8.00/month for streaming access, and still have to shell out more money to Microsoft if you want to use that Netflix app. Even YouTube and their web browser on the XBox 360 requires that you be a Gold Member of XBox Live. I still find that words can not adequately describe the level of stupidity that exists within such a model.

So with the news that the PS4 will require a PlayStation Plus subscription for most online multiplayer games, (FTP games like Planetside 2 don't require PS Plus), some from the XBox crowd have been using this as a means to say that PlayStation fans are "hypocrites".

[BigFnHooters]

There just isn't going to be much traction trying to get gamers to be mad about something the vast majority of them were going to pay for regardless of the online gaming requirements.

The amount of free stuff that you get from Playstation Plus easily makes up for the yearly cost.

[Cupid_Viper_3]

That's very true, but some people have been saying there's not a single game on PS Plus that interests them hence this is a huge deal for them.

So you'll always have people opposing it. Hell, even when online multiplayer is free on the PS3 and the PS Vita, there are still those are very upset about it and say that it lacks quality, and that Live is better because it's paid for.

[Divine]

. i kno i definitely said i would never pay for online with 360. The playstation plus service is jus far better than xbox death. theirs no way i can be called a hypocrite because as a console gamer they now both have some type of fee so i would have to just choose the better system with the better policies which is obviously ps4. The new plus is still genius because even though we have to pay a fee it has nothing to do with browsing the web or any media. Its simply for multiplayer. even if the xbox didnt have a fee and ps4 did i would never get the xbox because they have way too many problems lol, and the ps4 is still more powerfull and cheaper.

[WickedLester]

Given the breadth and variety of titles that Sony has offered for free through PS Plus, I don't see how anyone can honestly say there's NOTHING that interests them unless they are solely a sports gamer or COD fanatic. I suspect that some of those people haven't taken an honest look at just what all is available to them through the Plus subscription.

Plus Sony has already stated that the required Plus subscription will not apply to the multimedia services such as Netflix, Hulu, Amazon Plus, Crackle, etc. Nor will it apply to the F2P games such as DC Universe, Fuse, etc. That alone still makes it a much better value than Live Gold.

[mikeslemonade]

To call us hypocritical they are being hypocrites when they are defending the X1's price. They said $500 and $600 for a launch PS3 was too much. The X1 system and gold membership is 500 plus $60 a year. While the PS3 was free online.

[Army_of_Darkness]

I now have had ps+ for 2 years and I barely ever play online multiplayer. That's how worth it, it is.

[MikeMyers]

@BigFnHooters

"There just isn't going to be much traction trying to get gamers to be mad about something the vast majority of them were going to pay for regardless of the online gaming requirements."

Really? The vast Majority? Ok, mind showing me where those numbers are that Sony released for Playstation Plus members because I can't see them. Believe me, if it was the vast majority Sony would be more than happy to tell us what those numbers are.

The truth is the same arguments about Xbox Live only being popular because it's forced onto gamers who want to play multiplayer should be applied to the PS4 now. I agree Plus is a better model but that doesn't mean the vast majority is on it for the PS3 or Vita.

We will now see the flip-flopping commence. Either way it was a brilliant move on Sony's part to sneak in that announcement of a paid model while kicking Microsoft to the curb about DRM for physical discs (because DRM still applies to the PS4 like it does for the PS3 and Vita for anything you buy online).

[Th4Freak]

Well im one of these people, I have 0 interest in PS+ and free games if I wanted it I'd have bought it a long time ago, now i'll have to pay $50 a year to play with my friends...

I'm sure i'll love the PS4 as much as I love my Vita but seriously this is bs.

[USMC_POLICE]

I know plus don't include madden or NBA....if thoes are the only games people play why bother getting a system?? If that is not the games the people complaining are referring too then i have no idea what they mean because every genera gets free games but current sports games.

[Blachek]

I don't have any experience with PS Plus so I can't speak to it at all, but I always thought that XB Live protected online gaming to an extent.

I think, optimistically, that a paid subscription forces a level of maturity from some gamers. The ability to report a gamer for abusive language or exploitation allows for a protection of sorts. I don't think it always works, but I like to tell myself that it does.

PS should charge an online fee... hate me if you'd like. From a business perspective, that is money on the table that they aren't sweeping into their pocket.

[RedHawkX]

if you dont like demon souls your not a gamer and that games on ps plus

[MEGANE]

well said

[darthv72]

"The new plus is still genius because even though we have to pay a fee it has nothing to do with browsing the web or any media. Its simply for multiplayer."

The ironic part of that statement is neither service is a pay as you go type. Meaning you cant simply pause your PS+ service when you decide you want to watch netflix or surf the web. Your PS+ service is paid for the duration and each day it is reduced until it is time to renew.

So you paying to play and saying that you dont pay to surf the web or stream may be technically true but only those who are not paid members can really proclaim that 2nd part. Once you sign up to be a member of something, you are paying for everything that service offers even if it was free to non paid members.

That is why live essentially started making every new feature as inclusive to the paid membership. Sony changed their stance on pay to play, they will change their stance on the free features by making improved ones for paid members. After all, they are always looking for new incentives to get people to sign up.

If one of those incentives is a new and better netflix experience and people who use the free netflix app feel its worth paying for then they will sign up and as such have full access to everything else that is inclusive to the membership.

so when they make a better browser or media streaming apps for paid members, the free members will still be able to use the free ones until it gets to a point where they feel they are being neglected because all the new stuff is going to the paid members...as it generally does.

you keep your paid customers happy first.

[loulou]

lol wrote for n4g. you just cant beat this type of blogs

[KumquatGOATBEEF]

I think this is a great move by Sony. I would have preferred that the PSN stay free so we don't have to pay, but the way they are handling this matter is brilliant.

When you get a new computer you don't have to pay Dell or Microsoft or whoever manufactures the computer to get online. You only pay your ISP. Think if you had to pay an additional subscription to the manufacturer of the computer just to use internet. That's exactly what Microsoft is doing.

So what does Sony do? They charge for multiplayer access. If you don't want to play multiplayer, great! You can play all your games offline and still run your PS4's internet services just fine. If you do want multiplayer then you have to pay Sony to hop on their servers and utilize the PSN in a more demanding way than just simply browsing the internet.

This will help generate Sony a lot more revenue and with revenue comes great services and tribute to fans. We already saw what PS+ was giving us all these years on the PS3, think what Sony will give us in the way of content when millions more gamers are getting into it. And when there is more revenue that means the service itself will vastly improve.

[psyxon]

those gamers should open their eyes and their minds. i wasn't very attracted to most of the games either, and i've been a member since it started. but when you get bored and enjoy browsing, ps+ couldn't be better. boredom has opened my eyes to so many great games.

[BattleAxe]

I'm going to take the plunge and pay for PS+. I haven't signed up in the past, but I've been meaning to. However, this does open up a great opportunity for Nintendo with the WiiU having free online services.

[JokesOnYou]

Yeah, OK glad I got my boots on.

[Ju]

TBH, Currently I am living off of PS+. Don't play that much lately, but what I am getting there already creates a back log. Just downloaded XCom today. It's almost with those $50 I can play all year without buying any games. Sorry pubs.

[t0mmyb0y]

There is nobody who says there is nothing good on PS+. You obviously don't have it.

[Deputydon]

I finally caved and bought PS+ two months ago.

Since then, I've received Uncharted 3, Demons Souls, Sleeping Dogs, Infamous 2, Vanquish, LBP Karting, R&C All in One, and a handful of quality Indie games for free. There might be even another game as I can't really remember what is currently free.

[jadenkorri]

anyone who thought psn plus was not gonna be required for online play is retarded.. I called that along time ago before the ps4 was announced... What company is gonna ignore a monthly fee if people are willing to pay it to play online. I'm just glad psn plus gives me more moneys worth in free games. Yes there are months, the free games are not my forte, yet was pisses me off most, free games I already have on disc. But then that gem comes and its worth it, plus I still get to trade in the disc game.

[Ritsujun]

PS+, at the moment, offers 5 to 6 free games per month. That's 60+ free games per year.
Lots of discounts.
1GB cloud storage for PS3, 1GB cloud storage for PSVITA.
Auto firmware/gamepatch update. Auto gamesave upload.
Free themes, free avatars.
Access to closed betas and early demos.
Full game trials.

It seems that PS+ will be offering 3 PS4 games for free (Driveclub's one of them) on PS+ at PS4 launch.
I'm expecting 7 to 8 free games per month after the launch of PS+ on PS4.

[DOMination-]

Plus is indeed excellent but the first few months of ps4 will be interesting. We know the ps4 won't play anything other than ps4 games so what can they add to the service at launch when theres only a handful of games out?

Currently the IGC has 12 titles at any one time. Its a great deal. With PS4 we get effectively a demo of driveclub. Down the road it'll ve amazing again but I do worry those first few months will be a bit crap

[TheGrimReaper0011]

I agree. In fact, I was hoping PS Plus would be on PS4, so I'm all good for it. Specially since I have a PSV and PS3 and pre ordered my PS4, it's one subscription on 3 platforms!

[RyuCloudStrife]

I purchased PS+ for a year (2nd time), and have until next January. But I will purchase another PS+ separately on PS4, and still not lose money.

For $49.99 I already downloaded & played games worth a total of $100+ in 3 months...

[DanyBrown]

doesnt matter i blame microsoft for setting a precedent in this case and showing sony that so many suckers were willing and able to pay to access online multiplayer portion of games

[PsnGammer21]

See don't neglect that even though your paying at least they are generous enough to give your money back and more in free games so if you realize once u get its practically free

[ichimaru]

You should blame sony for not having the courage to make a big boy decision instead of following the success of their competetors

[NnT3291]

You blame MS for Sony charging you?

[PurpHerbison]

I ain't tryna take you shopping.. buy yo ass no shoes..

[STREET x KING]

PS+ is a way better deal than xbox gold no doubt but not everyone likes PS+, the games are good, don't get me wrong, but I don't see myself playing the majority of the games that come out. Honestly I like my gamefly sub better, I get games that I want to play.

Xbox Gold is trying to be more like PS+ which is good, giving out 2 'free' games every month. They just need to let people use the apps without having gold and it'll be a bit more similar.

People will pay to play online for games that they really want to play. I was really into the gears series for a while and I had no problem paying to play simply because I was in love with those games. But for me, as soon as I lost interest, I stopped paying. It's a waste of money unless you have something you really want to play. And almost every game with mp nowadays comes with 1 month of free gold so you can always try out the mp in most games.

I have questions, has cross game chat been confirmed for ps4? How many people can be in party/private chat? And will it need ps+?
I'm not sure if Sony has mentioned it, it just came to me right now when I was comparing gold vs ps+ in my head.

[Sharius]

the cross chat in PSV support quite a lot of member to join in and it's don't require PS+, so i think they will do the same with PS4

[JoySticksFTW]

I've been a ps+ member since the beginning and it's only gotten better.

My biggest problem with plus is I can't keep up with the games they give. I haven't even begun Sleeping Dogs yet and I finally got around to downloading LBP kart racing yesterday.

The free games might not be everyone's thing, especially if you buy a lot of games as they release. But that where all of plus' discounts come in. The discounts and bundles will save you a bunch of money if you don't mind buying digital content.

I think a lot of gamers forget the discounts when talking about plus. And you keep those games forever, even if you quit the service.

[Sharius]

lol, it's so true, i plan to try sleeping dog when i finish my castlevania lord of shadow, but then the E3 and i don't even go pass chapter 4 of this game

and they give me xcom, then holy....smoke the last of us coming right out, no way i skip TLOU, and by the time im done with this game maybe my backlog will be fill with other games

my PS+ will finish at november, but i plan to renew it for the PS4, not sure when, maybe immidiately at the next PS+ discount (like by 1 year and get 3 more months for free or spent 50$ and get 10$ back)or just do it at october

[FamilyGuy]

I'm not happy, nor do I even approve of Sony placing online gaming behind the PS+ pay wall BUT I also think it's completely ridiculous that 360 fans are comparing it to Xbox Live Gold.

Let's do a proper comparison then:

Xbox Live Gold $60 a year

Online multiplayer gaming
internet browser (free everywhere else)
video streaming apps (free everywhere else)
Social networking apps (free everywhere else)
Cross-game voice chat, voice messaging
... is that it?

Playstation Plus $50 a year

1 hour full game trials
Cloud Storage
Instant game collection, currently 20 free games up for grabs on the U.S. store.
New games added every month spanning all PS3, Vita
Early access to game Betas
Various discounts on games, media, themes, avatars, Apps (Music Unlimited) and DLC
Various Free Themes, Avatars and DLC
Automatic Updates

Additions

When PS4 comes out its online gaming will be in PS+
When PS4 comes out a version of PS4 launch title DriveClub will be free on PS+

Currently, XBLG is giving away 2 games a month
(two very old, very cheap games)

[blackout]

You Don't own the games.

[Blachek]

A proper comparison wouldn't be as subjective.

Everything below your "Instant game collection" for PS Plus could be applied to both services.

As for Cloud Storage, I can sit down at any connected 360 today and pull my game data by importing my Gamertag from the cloud.

You didn't need to pad the PS Plus Services. The company has been playing catch up to MS to emulate their model. They see them making tons of money off of it and need to sweeten the deal to get PS gamers to buy in.

As an XB Live user I think it's awesome that you get 1 hour game trials, that is something that I would like the opportunity to try. Other than that, you save $.83 a month.

[IronFistChinMi]

You get to keep those Xbox games even if you cancel Gold though, I downloaded Fable just so i don't have to switch disks to play it. They may be old, but are still amongst the best games Xbox has to offer.

Gold has Cloud storage too btw. It also has good discounts, I bought AC 2/Brotherhood/Revelations for £4 each and Dark Souls for £8 last week.

[shinrock]

Actually, you can get gold for cheaper.I've been paying $39 since 4 years ago.hell I've even paid $29,and that's for a yearly.also those free games Sony lends you for using + go away if you ever cancel ur sub. The free games from xbox you get keep.

[gamer2013]

XBL has a lot of those PSN+ features as well. Including cloud storage.

You're complaining about the XBL 2 free game giveaway for being old and cheap? A lot of PSN+ games are old and cheap as well! Remember, everyone has to start somewhere.

You're comparison is biased and makes you look like a foolish fanboy.

I have both systems.

[FITgamer]

@blackout People won't own the games they pay full price for on X1 either. Just like PS+ if your XBL subscription expires you can't access games. Also with PS+ the only content that expires are the "free" disc based games. You still have access to the games/dlc you paid for at a discount, PSN titles, avatars, and themes.

[hellvaguy]

@Familyguy

I agree with what your saying but there are a couple of things you left out. Xbox customer service is ridiculously nice and easy to work with. Also On live when you buy a game, its assigned your account, so you can still play even if your don't renew live (unlike ps+). Also all the trial games on live you can play unlimited, not just for 1 hour (include like the first 1 or 2 levels).

Lol ok 1 more but you made me laugh on this one. Automatic updates. Ok ya you get on both systems, so that's really not a plus. Also you left out cloud storage on live. You also get free themes and avatar dlc on live, but you generally have to watch some commercial for that product to get it (aka I watched a prevue for the upcoming film Wolverine and got claws for my avatar).

Hope that helps your pros and cons list!

[4me2]

I truly believe that MP should always be free. Unfortunately MS paid online model turn out to successful and proof people willing to pay for, and now Sony is going the same way. I understand that maintaining server centers is costly so if they just would provide dedicated servers for MP, I think I would twist me thinking a bit and would be fine with subscription model.

Regarding Pros and Cons, the fundamental difference ( at least until November) between two services is what happens when one decides not to renew it.
Can you play Online?
Can access Netflix, Youtube etc....?
Can you do video chat?

PS.
I used to have PS+ and LIVE Gold

[Corpser]

Have to pay $50 a year to get demos and discounts? That's a good thing?

[FamilyGuy]

Please note that there is a huge difference between 1 hour full game trials and game demos.

Game trials let you download the entire digital version of a game and do whatever you like with that game for an hour. Single player, multiplayer, mess around with the settings, play local co-op, WHATEVER YOU WANT. Then after the hour is up you can choose to either buy it, let it sit on your HDD while you think it over/get the money or delete it.

Demos only give you access to a part of a game the developer chooses as a sample.

As far as discounts go, everyone on PS gets game discounts and sales, you get bigger discounts if you're a PS+ member though.

@Blackout, what's subjective about it?
Are those XBLG games not much older than the PS+ titles? Do we not currently have 20 to choose from (with an active subscription) compared to the 2 free games MS is giving out (with no renewal necessary)?

PS+ gives 1Gb cloud storage
I'm not sure if there is a limit or how much you get on 360 though.

@hellvaguy Are the customer service agent nicer/more helpful to XBLG subscribers than silver members? If not then that's irrelevant. Games you buy are yours to keep, period. The free games are the ones tied to your subscription. Game demos are not the same as full game trials. XBL does not have full game trials, period.
The free themes and avatars are free, you don't have to watch or do anything. Your comparison sounds more like Sony with PS Home. When you do certain stuff you get free Home crap.

in 1 year, for $50, all these games were available. http://www.reddit.com/r/Gam...
If you let you subscription lapse you can't play the games but when you renew you are able to play them again. If you downloaded a game for free and delete it and it gets removed from the instant games collection list you can still go back an re-download it for free as long as you have your PS+ subscription. I personally add the Vita titles to my download list (then stop/delete them) so that I can go back and get them for free if I ever do end up buying a Vita.

[Goldenarmz]

@Th4Freak

How can you say you have no interest in FREE stuff?? Seems more like you were just to cheap to pay the fee to get online, not that you have 0 interest. You seem to be one of those who expect to get everything for free, and come off as very cheap to the point you wont even pay, to get free stuff. Wow. I am making the move from Xbox to Sony, and the free stuff just sweetens the pot.

[gedapeleda]

Well I'm not ok with either of them.
Being a playstation user I only need the psn for online mp, I don't give a shi*t to most of that ps plus content, I don't need no streaming or cloud services. Why should I pay? Considering the fact, game servers are run by game companies not sony.

[malokevi]

These same people who are so glad for all the free games are probably the same ones who scoff at the idea of digital media.

Yeah, we want "ownership" (whatever the hell that means), but digital games over PSN... whole different story!

[MysticStrummer]

Sort of like hating on PS3 for years because of larger installs, then loving the idea of full mandatory installs on the One.

The fanboy hypocrisy goes both ways. It always has and always will.

[ZombieKiller]

I actually appreciate the PS+ requirement. Don't think of it as them "getting us" for $50 a year but rather, allowing us all to have free games and all play together. I voluntarily pay for PS+. Now everyone I know can download the free games I do and I will have more people to play these games with online. Just another win for me from Sony.

PS3 didn't steer me wrong even after they bashed it during launch. I've stuck with PS this whole time and I've been happy since....hence the voluntary PS+ account. More win to come.

[maximaz]

If vast majority was going to pay for PNS Plus regardless then Sony wouldnt have made it mandatory. Sorry but locking multiplayer behind a paywall is BS no matter how great your service is. If it's so great, it can speak for itself.

[360degrees]

The hypocrisy on these forums in regards to this "Pay for play"subject is so thick it makes it almost impossible to breathe really. I find myself pondering if I have somehow fallen into some sort of alternate universe whereas all playstation fans are suddenly adamantly supporting, and even complimenting the exact same, I repeat the exact same policy they called unjustifiable for countless years previous. Suddenly the demonized process of Microsoft charging to play online is praised like the second coming itself? Flabbergasted would be putting it mildly in terms of my current amazement towards the flip flopping masses that "ok" this policy in their minds because "if sony does it, it's A OK with me". Can someone please give me a legitimate reason it is now acceptable to pay to play online now?

[Majin-vegeta]

With the amount of stuff Sony is giving us with the PS4 and the all the servers and services they are gonna need.They will need the money.

Best part is not everything will be blocked behind PS*.I'll still be able to access my netflix,Hulu,Music unlimites etc...apps free of charge (UNLINKE M$).
Plus not every game will behind the PS+ wall.
http://www.escapistmagazine...

Now compare it to Live if you don't have Gold all you can do is play single player and everything is locked behind it.

Need i say more??

[Cupid_Viper_3]

From the article itself:

"Secondly, it would be a huge blunder to own a PS3 or a PS Vita, or both for that matter, and not subscribe to the PlayStation Plus service. Let me explain this point further:
Batman: Arkahm city, Bulletstorm, Resident Evil 5 Gold Edition, Mortal Kombat, Knytt Undergound, Bioshock 2, Guardians of Middle Earth, Gotham City Imposters, Jet Set Radio, Pinball Arcade, Far Cry 2, The Simpsons Arcade Game, Sega Genesis Bundle, Altered Beast, Fatal Inertia, Streets of Rage 2, Sleeping Dogs, Vanquish, LIMBO, Wipeout 2048, Lumies Electronic Symphony, Mass Effect 3, Dead or Alive 5, Joe Danger 2, Metal Gear Solid HD Collection, Puddle, Spec Ops: the Line, Street Fighter IV Arcade Edition, Anomaly: Warzone Earth, Mega Man Maverick Hunter X, Disgaea 3 Absence of Detention, Demon's Souls, Malicious, Labyrinth Legends, SOULCALIBUR: Broken Destiny, Zombie tycoon 2.

The list above accounts for January 1, 2013 to May 7, 2013. Every game listed above is FREE of charge if you own a PS Plus subscription. That's 37 games, not even halfway through the year, and not even taking into account the huge discounts you get on other games just for signing up for PS Plus."

[kwyjibo]

Stuff that "Sony is giving us", is stuff that "we're paying Sony for". It's not an act of charity if payment is mandatory.

The hypocrisy is distasteful. The Sony Defense Force rightfully criticised Microsoft's pay-for-online, Sony proved that a good online service could be delivered for free, services on the PC still prove that.

The argument was that mandatory pay-for-online is not OK.

The argument wasn't that mandatory pay-for-online is OK as long as its dressed up with bells and whistles.

Agree or disagree, that's still the definition of hypocrisy.

[Blachek]

Free games, Developers & Publishers must love that.

[matgrowcott]

@Blachek

They're not free. PS owners pay a subscription. Enough of them pay that subscription that Sony can offer a flat rate to give a game over the service. Developers take the amount knowing full well that many of the people won't pay otherwise and/or may buy a sequel/re-release. For Sony, anything past a certain number of subscribers is pure profit.

Which is partly why the "now more people HAVE to pay" thing is so surprising.

[GameSpawn]

Blachek, matgrowcott

Also if the free game offered is a Sony published game then it actually cuts less into money earned from the memberships. It is true that the other publishers and developers still get their cut. I don't know what the percentages are for digital content sold on the PSN (they're probably prearranged through contract when the publisher signs up their content to the network, my guess is Sony takes a 10%-20% cut off everything sold digitally - based on what Apple does with their digital content).

At least the cool thing with Sony versus Microsoft is Sony reserves the right to offer ANYTHING on the PSN at a lower price than what the publisher who owns the content wants (the publisher still gets their full percentage though); if the publisher wants to make the content free Sony probably has some formula based on the size of the content that would be downloaded to pay for the bandwidth. Microsoft on the other hand is the reverse -- the publisher sets their price and Microsoft can actually sell it higher, but only give the publisher the percentage of the original agreed upon sale price meaning Microsoft effectively makes their %-cut bigger.

[MysticStrummer]

"Free games, Developers & Publishers must love that."

Just like they love the idea of sharing a game with 10 people. ; )

I'm usually great at justifying things I want to do or buy, but I've had to give quite a bit of thought to this topic. I'll be getting PS+ with my PS4 because:

1) I've bought a lot of downloadable titles that would have been included or discounted with a PS+ membership.

2) I was planning on buying Drive Club, maybe not on day one but eventually, and it will be included with PS+.

3) I enjoy taking part in betas and PS+ members get in sooner.

4) While I still don't care about cross game chat, I like the idea of using some of the other PS4 social features with my little brothers and friends, particularly sharing videos of awesome gaming moments.

5) I usually buy most of the games I really want right away, but if a game I already bought becomes free on PS+ I can always trade in my disc copy toward something else. Also, many games I didn't buy but wanted to try have been included through PS+.

6) I see myself taking advantage of the full game trials quite a bit.

I feel like I'm forgetting something... but I'm on some painkillers because of oral surgery so that's all I can remember at the moment. lol

As for the hang up some people seem to have about using the word "free" with PS+, just use the word "included" instead.

[Eddie20101]

There are many on N4G that favor Sony Playstation that have said they don't like having to pay for online play on PS4, I've seen quite a bit of it. There are many that don't mind paying for online multti-player and never had a problem with people paying for it on Xbox 360.

Your making up a false hypocrisy because you favor Microsoft Xbox.

[matgrowcott]

There is a hypocrisy. You only need to see posts in this very thread to see people are saying "well, the value is there for me, so I'm happy to pay."

That's exactly what Live players have been saying in defence of their service for 8 years.

The problem with getting support from people who are already paying is that those that are already paying aren't paying for anything but their free games and Sony's bottom line (because their payments aren't going to go up). It's the people who are now forced to buy Plus that will be adding to the coffers, to the monthly income, and it's those that you should be asking about whether this is a good move.

[killcycle]

He's not though, he has a point.

I've been a loyal PS customer for pretty much most of my life, i have had PS+ from when it was first available in the UK and my subscription ends in 2015 and i do remember the hate M$ got from having to pay for Gold particularly from users of the competition including the Playstation.

After the Conference i had a look at this article:
http://n4g.com/news/1278035...

Some of the comments did make me laugh

"Meh, u get a free $60 game, free psn games, and a free game every month. No biggie to sign up for it."

"I know after that awesome press conference, Im not even mad!!" 100+ agrees!

Sony are being a lot less restrictive with PS+ by still allowing us to use our media services without being on it but the fact remains, they are charging us for multiplayer now. So why is everyone fine? Shit ain't right, don't matter how you sugar coat it. PC online is still free.

[sentury111]

What is this article then? It's defending the policy.

If PS+ is such a great value why include online play with it? Surely they wouldn't need to force it on you if it was such a great service to begin with (though free rentals are not bad).

Xbox live online is better, I use both and they are now providing free games (till December, might continue might not) that are yours to keep. Currently live has party chat which is invaluable when playing online.

Personally I find the ads on PSN more distracting because they constantly flow down and scroll right in the top corner on the dashboard than the static box on the Xbox that I don't even notice much.

But in reality why change there policy now if it's such a great value. Everyone would sign up without being forced to pay for online.

Saying it's a great value doesn't negate the fact that they are now charging for mp.

The majority of PS fans are praising the change saying it will help improve the service which is exactly what MS fans have said.

But it's okay now because it's Sony. Yes they are being hypocrites.

[Cupid_Viper_3]

@ Century

I'm not even sure I understand your line of logic here. Sony invested 380 million dollars in buying Gaikai alone. And you'll have instant access to thousands of games ranging from the PS1 all the way to the PS4. What do you think is going to pay for those servers that have to service a potential 150 million plus gamers?

Sony used the PS3 and the PS Vita to build equity with us gamers and show us that they're not just talking PR, but the service is actually as good as it sounds. Now that it's mandatory on the PS4, your maxed out PS3 hard drive of free games is physical proof of what the service offers.

[Hicken]

Live players have been saying there was value in the same damn online you were getting for FREE elsewhere. It's not the same thing.

At best, they were paying that subscription for cross game chat. And there's no way in hell it's worth $60 a year.

And, just as many people aren't/weren't happy to pay for Live, there are many who don't want to pay for Plus. There are people who don't mind at all paying for Plus. And there are also people who'd rather not, but will because there's already lots of value in the service.

These last two groups are aware of the value of Plus. As any gamer posting on this site should be.

With that in mind, it's utterly stupid of people to try and compare Plus to Live. There is LITERALLY no comparison between the value of the two services.

That's why Plus is acceptable, and Live is not.

[matgrowcott]

@Hicken

I saved a ton of money with Gold-exclusive deals over the years, long before PlayStation Plus was even a thing. I easily saved $60 a year and I'm sure it was the same for many people that were buying digital a few years ago, and probably even today.

And the point remains, getting an opinion from this site about whether this is worth it or not is like going and asking a CEO of Pizza Hut if paying below minimum wage is fair. Your opinion is all good and well, but it's not you that's losing out.

[JamieL]

Dude that’s the way all fanboys are. They all flip flop more than a hippies feet. Like you said, that’s been there ammunition for YEARS just like the MS and the "no exclusives" thing. They sure enough showed some exclusives at this E3 didn't they? An ass load of new IP's as well. Any credit from the other camp? Nope. I also noticed a bunch of comment from the PS side after their first Press Conference, about how awesome their "snap" feature was and how awesome it would be to pull up a browser while in game and look up walkthroughs, then when MS actually demonstrated it on stage it was "the laughing stock of the gaming world".
I also see how the fanboys on the MS side take just as ridiculous jabs at the other side. But the MS hate on here is too much. I don’t agree with a lot of what they’ve done. I think making it completely useless without internet was stupid. I think I see what they are trying to do though. I think if some of their ideas work out right it could be awesome, and for that vision, I see a internet connection required. One Idea I thought I caught from their show was games that change on the fly. Mixing TV and gaming, so you play the new episode of the game every week, Something completely new every week. What could a rad developer do with a system like that. I also think the “Cloud” thing could have major potential if true. I accept the XBone is weaker than the PS4, but if they can truly stream the whole game world over the cloud, then that frees the actual system all its resources for everything else. Now I don’t think that it’s some magic answer that will make it stomp the PS4 and make my system of chice better than yours, but if it works how they say it could be major. To be honest I think I’m will get the PS4 first, due to price alone, but if they do it right I think MS could change the face of gaming.
Bottom line is I am not proclaiming a victor just yet, but both have my attention, and to just write either one of them off, because your “club” doesn't like it, is childish at best and strait up pathetic if you ask me, and I see way to much of the latter on this site.
Why can't we just be excited to see were gaming goes this gen.

[dumahim]

I don’t like having to pay to play online because I almost never do it. I’m okay with paying for PS+ because of all the other stuff I get out of it and that’s why I signed up for it in the first place. When I paid for Gold, I never felt I was getting much of anything out of it and it felt like a ripoff. That’s not be hypocritical because there’s a clear difference between the two.

[iistuii]

yep agree. Then they go on about the free games. Well every game I've seen being offered are games that a true gamer would have purchased/played months before, so to someone like me who plays every top game that comes out, I would get nothing that I haven't already played. So yeah, by all means have a go at XBL, but also now have a go at PSN, because they are both now as bad as each other. Steam FTW...

[sentury111]

That's true too. The free rentals are games I already OWN. The list provided includes multiple regions too btw.

The only retail release I didn't own was DOA 5 and I have the majority of the arcade titles. So in the end it's basically just paying for MP on an inferior online platform.

[Eddie20101]

Both of you are the exception not the rule as far as having all the games that have been made available. Besides the PS4 will be getting New games on PS+. Plus it has automatic updates and cloud saves and your not required to have plus to use any video services or apps. Also the multiplayer on both services is nearly the same, both Xbox Live and Playstation have had there fair share of problems online, if you say they haven't then your probably an Xbox fanboy. I have both and have had problems with both online.

Saying PS+ is not a good value is nonsense. If you don't like being forced to pay for multiplayer that's another issue.

I don't like being forced to pay for online either but I do it with Xbox live so I will do it with PS4, but I will still be getting more value from PS+ than I ever did with Xbox live.

[EasilyTheBest]

Hi 360degrees. Great post, it looks as if I have fallen into the same alternative universe as you.
It is totally totally bonkers.
Thanks for putting it into words the exact thing I have been thinking since E3.

E3 2013, from here on it is now perfectly fine to pay for online.

I have had Live for the 360 and I have had plenty of free games cross game chat and tons of other stuff I didn't mind paying for. Could the hundreds of ppl who called me out about it could you line up with the apologies please....

[WickedLester]

It's not hypocrisy. Many of us PS3 owners have already been very happy PS Plus subscribers for the last 2 years. The amazing value that Sony provides for their membership cannot be compared! The fact that Sony has decided to roll multiplayer up into the Plus membership for PS4 doesn't change a thing for us who already subscribe. They're still going to offer the free games, discounts, cloud storage, etc along with what will I'm sure be a much better online experience.

[Viper7]

it's not justifiable, many of the PlayStation gamers will just deal with it. Most of the people who think this is a good thing, have probably been Ps+ subscribers for a while now.

It's a flaw or a downside whichever you prefer to call it. But it's not a deal breaker for everyone.

[webeblazing]

its a deal breaker for me im not going to support a system the forces you to pay to play online its as simple as that. i didnt support 360 for this reason and im not supporting ps4 for this reason and like i said i have ps+

[Viper7]

Well you are free to do so.

I don't support WiiU because of their region-locks and console tied purchases. I won't support Xbox One because of very long list of anti-consumer and anti-indie policies/restrictions. Your choice is similar.

Been PS+ subscriber from day one, and thus I am just going to deal with this, like many others.

[karl]

U want the legitimate reason? We dont have a choice, if u didnt want to pay for online u could always buy a ps3 instead of xbox. What are u going to buy now? No choice.

BUt we all know this is ms fanboys fault sony is charging for online cuz ms did it and it worked.

[sAVAge_bEaST]

yup, if the xbots raged on M$ for doing it in the FIRST place.. we prob. wouldn't be having this discussion..

comparing Gold to PS+ , again is like comparing apples to oranges.

[CoLD FiRE]

OMG! You Sony fanboys never cease to amaze me.. So now that Sony is charging for MP it's MS fanboy's fault? Why don't you vote with your money and not buy the PS4 just like those who aren't happy with the Xbox One policies and not buying it?

You have a choice and there are alternatives that offer MP for free (PC/WiiU).

And when Sony embraces the same DRM policies as the XOne in 7 years with their new console you'll blame MS fanboys again.

[karl]

of course i would blame them

and i know its not fair but its not my fault MS did it first ...

im not here to say to you that sony cares about gamers and MS doesnt ... sony took advantage of a few very bad decisions from MS

but dude.. tell me, if u were the head of a company and your competition was charging your clients millions for the same services that u offer, would u really keep doing it for free?

sony or MS could charge u everytime u change the disk from your console.. but that sounds stupid..
just as stupid as charging u for using the internet u already pay for.. soo no one does it... but then someone does the unthinkable, and guess what? noone complains, and soo everyone else follows..

im not a blind fanboy .. but since MS did it first with no support from other companies or publishers.. well fuck them.. they were silly

i will pay for online and i get to do it with pride

MS fucked up first soo xbox fanboys cant ..

and that is truly unfair.. not for MS but for the ppl who just wants to play forza or halo without noone telling them that XBOX SUCKS

but i guess that is the way it works.. u wont find true logic in forums...

[wishingW3L]

so true lol. Now people doesn't care about paying to play online just like they stopped hating on motion controls once the Xbox and PS3 got their Kinect and Move.

[AceofStaves]

Yeah, it's just like the hypocrisy of wholeheartedly endorsing new tech and its high price point after bitching about how Sony "forced" consumers to buy a Blu-Ray player with PS3.

Exactly like that.

[Campy da Camper]

Let's say micro and Sony stabbed you once a month with a knife. Micro stabs you then let u bleed out n offers no help in recovering. Sony stabs u but then give you free antibiotics and bandages. If you had to make a choice between the two which would you prefer?

[StraightedgeSES]

None. Why would anyone want to be stabbed?

[Theyellowflash30]

I don't like either. I don't want a bunch of free games, I don't have the time to play them. And I don't want to play for Xbox Live anymore.

PC, Wii U, and 3DS got free online play. I'll stick to that. I'll get a PS4 for offline RPG's like FF 15 and Kingdom Hearts 3

[TongkatAli]

I got Disgaea 3 Absence Of Justice, Final Fantasy Tactics War Of Lions and Blazeblue with all the DLC characters off of PS +. You're telling me you wouldn't play those games ? If Nintendo had a PS + like service you would happily subscribe to that.

[Theyellowflash30]

No, I don't want any of those games.

It's a fallacy to say "If Nintendo had a PS + like service you would happily subscribe to that."

I'm just talking about this right now.

[TongkatAli]

Why are you making a good service that provides games that are really fun such a bad thing. I'm the crazy one ? What kind of a gamer says no to quality games ?

See what Nintendo games do to people. It makes them soooo fing smug. Don't even deny that you're not smug. "You won't play this you wont play that" it's the same shit with you people.

Bottom line is that you're missing out on very good games from PS +, but you know, Animal Crossing better then all those games combined in your mind, smug.

[Theyellowflash30]

What are you babbling about?

I don't want to pay for a bunch of games I don't have the time to play. Is that so hard for you to understand?

I didn't buy Animal Crossing New Leaf, so I don't know what you're talking about.

I'm not missing out on something I would never use. I already have a backlog of 30-40 games I still need to play.

I just don't have the time to take advantage of PS Plus, and I don't want to pay for online multiplayer when PC, Wii U, and 3DS offer it for free.

Sony will have some good JRPGs like FF 15 and KH3 on the PS4. I'll just play those offline. I don't need PS Plus.

[SnipeySnake]

One thing I hate about this site is the second you even hint anything anti-sony or pro-nintendo you get barraged with disagrees. I'm willing to bet more than 90% of the people that are ok with the mandatory PS+ thing already had PS+ in the first place.

If there were a lot of things that interested me in PS+ I would've already had it. No matter how you look at it, it's forced onto people who don't want it. Sony's E3 was perfect until they mentioned this, I honestly wasn't expecting them to go down to microsofts level (for this gen) just cause microsoft went down to an even lower level. Glossing it over with a bunch of free games that non-PS+ users don't even want isn't helping.

Another thing I don't get is the blind faith in a company that wants your money. At first they wanted a lot of PS+ members so they try their best to have a lot of games people will like for free, but now that its mandatory they won't have to try anymore. They might just give out way lesser quality games.

Next gen, I'll stick mainly with Wii U and 3DS, and get a PS4 for FF15, KH3, and other offline RPGs.

[Theyellowflash30]

Yeah, I feel the same way, the games you get through PS Plus are never that good, or there games that have been out for a long time.

I have a PS3 and didn't even think for a second to buy PS Plus. I don't want a bunch of games I'm never going to play.

I just don't have the time to play them. I'm in the same boat as you. I'll get a PS4 years down the road when there is a solid staple of RPG's. But I don't need to pay for PS Plus cause I don't want any of the games their offering.

However, If FF 15 and KH 3 get Wii U ports. It will be a while before I buy a PS4, as Nintendo is providing me with more than enough games on the 3DS and Wii U for this year and next.

[Sarobi]

PS+ will give me content for all three devices (PS3/PS4/VITA).. so honestly dropping 50 dollars on it seems pretty worth it to me.

[Agent_hitman]

Now that Sony have GAIKAI, it's pretty strong future waiting for Sony..

[wishingW3L]

Have you ever tested one of those game stream services? They are horrible!

[a_squirrel]

Why do you think it's going to take a year longer?

[CoLD FiRE]

All of the sudden the cloud is the best thing ever...because Sony!

[project_pat36]

I never had a problem paying for ps+ when it wasn't required for multiplayer honestly. with all the free games, discounts and cloud backup storage, ps+ practically pays for itself.

http://i.imgur.com/HMiTx9s....
Sony For The Win X's and O's baby

Knockin mircosoft down like a stack of rocks underwater

[aksmashh]

They should of kept it as it was on the ps3!!!!!!

But at least there giving us that driving game and some others to make up for it!

[sentury111]

Isn't it called Drive Club +? I bet it's a gripped version like the version of Forza 4 included with Xbox 360.

Guess will just have to wait and see.

[wishingW3L]

PS+ Driveclub will have less content than the disc based game.

[Ninjamonkey82]

Xbox live didn't give gamers a scratch off content till the next Gen was at the door without asking you to reach further and further into your pocket.

Sony have used PlayStation Plus from the hour off its conception as a way off giving more value for money. This will not stop yeah they are now adding the multiplayer to that aspect as well.

But how many people will now be jumping from xbox till Sony they won't see that as a problem ;). Its a business opportunity and Sony have a right to make a move on it.

As far as this gen goes that was this gen, Next gen is a totally different Ball park and at this moment its Sony's ball game. I'm more that confident people will prefer this till anything xbone can throw at them ;).

Edit# As always disagrees Truth hurts don't it.

[sway_z]

Well commented!

MS are copying PS+ model to the 'T'. Took them 7 years to come up with an XBL that is as attractive as PS+ is to date.

MS know XBL is a cash cow, and after all these years, suddenly they want to give free stuff??

That is the REAL HYPOCRISY!!

@GusBricker

Agree about the XBL service being better this gen, mostly due to servers and voice chat. But, if XBL wasn't better than free PS+, many XBL subscribers would have wondered why they pay for an inferior service.

It works both ways my gaming friend.

[GusBricker]

More like the constant bitching and gloating that PSN+ members get free games and Xbox Live gold members didn't.

Like I said below, there's a reason PSN+ gave away free games.

MS deserves it's criticisms, but one thing they do much better than Sony is online gaming.

[airgangstarr]

if they amke there network better then i dont care what it cost but psn neeeds a upgrade thats for sure an hopefully bein were all payin now they can make one

[WitWolfy]

XBL and PS+ are nothing alike... PS+ actually gives back to its customers.. Where XBL adds useless services that are mostly US and/or UK region specific..

Most 3rd world countries never even got ANY services to compliment their XBL G membership.. Everything got pushed towards the US and UK members!

[Kaneda]

Give you old games (some may you already own), themes (Some don't care, except for little boys and girls), early betas and demos, etc.

I bought my $60 dollars game. I just want to play it online that came with it, But you have to pay fee to access.

And when BF4 comes out, you can rent dedicated server from EA like BF3 + Sony monthly fee to access it. Wonderful, milking gamers is the greatest innovation ever!

$ony fanboys talked like $ony doesn't want to make profit. FREE STUFF FREE STUFF. They care about gamers. BS! In the end, they are still like M$ in for the money!

[Silly gameAr]

Don't like paying for MP, but I used to pay for XBL, and I don't get nearly as much bang for my buck with Live as I do PS Plus.

[Kaneda]

Yes, it is better than XBL in term of free stuff you got. But some gamers don't even care about the free stuff. We buy game, and we want to play it. That's what we got on PS3. If you want free stuff you buy PS+, But now, you don't care about free stuff! you need to buy PS+ to access your other half of the game.

[Zichu]

As much as I enjoy taking advantage of PS+. The games they offer are great.

I just want to know, how long before PS+ is worth it for the PS4? There aren't going to be a lot of games within the first few months of release for both consoles. You can't play games from previous generations on the PS4, so what games and how many are going to be made available in the first few months of release.

I know Warframe is a supposed launch title, but is that going to be it?

[meatysausage]

Apart from the obvious value in ps plus (even though I never used it this gen) Sony have said that games that are free to play won't need ps plus. I'm sure everyone will get it for free games and online though. I have been happy with Sony ever since I swapped from Microsoft in 2010. I'm happy to give my money to them. To those who complain about the money, living in aus paying much more than the us is what I out up with.

[Mikelarry]

value. psplus offers value, xbox live does not offer much than the ability to play online

[a_squirrel]

I guess they have the twitch streaming as well, but then PS4 has ustream so...

[Geezus]

Well because some people are hypocrites others are okay with it because they like what ps+ offers...
But to say xbox live is not acceptable maybe in the past but not now. Now you will be able to get free games like psn+ but for keeps ( atleast on the 360 no word on the one) plus dedicated servers for all games plus theres discounts, and you will be able to share your entire game library with any 10 people and its live so its really reliable

[sway_z]

Hypocrites or not....

You can't very well expect a free, but costly online multiplayer service to go on forever do you??

I give Kudos to Sony for the past 7 years of FREE online multiplayer, which continues on both PS3/Vita.

I actually don't see why Xbox fans are so bothered about something they've been forced to do for 8 years or so??. What they should be more concerned about is MS policies and practices.

Sony won E3 by winning over the gamers, press and developers. Not easy by any measure, but they came out the good guys!

NOW QUIT CRYING!! & LIVE WITH IT!!

[Mikelarry]

NOW QUIT CRYING!! & DEAL WITH IT!!

thats much better :)

[Aceman18]

I agree with everything you said, for 7-8 yrs online was free and for that Sony does deserve kudos for that.

I look at it this way Sony could have adopted the exact same model as Microsoft, and then we'd all be f**ked.

I barely play online, I love PS+ for all the great things I get whilst still being able to use all my other media apps for FREE. Yes it sucks now to have to pay for online play but the alternative would be so much worst.

I see this as a compromise and they even apologized for making us pay now.

So I ask this of all those complaining would you rather have

1 crazy restrictions, online check in, no used games while still paying for online play with all media apps still behind pay wall.

Or

2 No restrictions, use of used games, no online check ins, offline game, and finally paying just for online play after 7-8 yrs while all your other media apps remain FREE.

[sashimi]

Yeah seriously if they had that big of a problem with it they should've stopped supporting XBL but instead they continued for the entire gen and this is the end result. They simply made paying for MP acceptable and now that its next gen its being adopted. This is why accepting xbox one's drm is also a very dangerous proposition, it'll send the message to all developers and M$, especially EA that it is ok for always online and no used games, and do pretty much w/e they want.

[Mikelarry]

EA nah more like activision. i am so afraid of that company because they are big enough to do things and others will follow suit

[Foxgod]

This article makes it seem like that if you have live, you also MUST have a subscription on every other service there is.

Newsflash, if you want to do multiplayer on Psn, and also netflix on psn, you need to pay the same.
The only situation where you dont have to, would be if you dont play online and only want netflix on your ps4.

And i am not getting netflix, i dont wear a purity ring.

[sway_z]

Stop spreading MISINFORMATION!!

Andrew House CLEARLY said "MP is accessible via PS+ sub, but you can still enjoy 'ALL' other media without it".

That includes Netflix and all other pay per view services!!

Can't you find something else to nitpick???

EDIT

If that's the case Foxgod, why do you come across as whinging?

[Foxgod]

Thats exactly what i said....

[NYC_Gamer]

I'm not a huge online gamer that's why my live and psn are both on free status..It's a big deal for casual online gamers like myself to pay a fee to access a feature that would barely use.

[meatysausage]

If you don't play online then you don't need it

[sentury111]

He said he does use it, but wouldn't use it much so it doesn't have the same value as someone who would use it frequently.

That's a valid point for both Xbox on PS.

[sway_z]

To a degree, I agree paying a sub for something you barely use is pointless...

However, you fall into the 'minority' category. In other words, neither the PS+ nor XBL service is for you.

The same rhetoric could be applied to any subscription...Sky, Netflix. If you don't use them much, don't subscribe.

Unfortunately, the Xbox One is not a good choice for you, since you must have a sub to use it for more than just gaming. What is a terrible sham is that you don't actually own your $60 game in any shape or form, because it it tied to systems and useless outside of the '10' family/friends you have to register.

If MS drop out of the gaming industry, all your games evaporate. The retailers won't want your discs because of MS policy.

MS are making gamers rent Xbox One games through licenses....this is far worse than the PS+ free games that you can only access if you keep up the sub?

What if you move address and the internet is lousy there?...will people pick locations based on the internet so that XB1 functions....Nope!

[sentury111]

Isn't that the same thing as saying if Sony dropped the psn plus program you would lose your games.

At least of you drop gold the games are still yours to play. Not true with plus.

The 10 person family plan has the potential to blow ps plus out the door. We just don't know how it works yet. I'm optimistic.

Imagine 10 people buying different games, that's $6 a game. That could be great if it works how I imagine it.

[FITgamer]

@sentury you only lose the "free" disc based games. PSN titles, avatars, themes, or any games/dlc you purchase never expire, if you bought it it's yours regardless of your PS+ status. So it's not the same. The game sharing with X1 is a cool feature. Only downside from what i understand is if you want to play the MP portion of the game with one of those 10 people, then they will still have to purchase their own copy of the game.

[wishingW3L]

that's the same issue I have. Now to have some sporadic casual matches with friends I'll be forced to pay for a service I will barely use. =/

[BabyTownFrolics]

It was all about choice with ps+. It was an option albeit an awesome option. Now if you want to play mp on the ps4 you have to pay, the choice is gone. On the Xbox users never had that choice, and the overall opinion on this site was that the lack of choice was a negative for gamers and that live should change their polices and make mp gaming free like Sony. You could argue value of service all day but the core of the issue again was choice.

The hypocrisy is that now the choice is gone folks on this site are saying its ok cause it's Sony, they perceive value in the ps+ service just like live players did and continue to do. If your of the opinion that live is not worth the cost or pales in comparison to what ps+ offers that is fine, that is a different conversation.

The fact is folks who thought paying to play mp was absurd and praised Sony for their stance, folks who claimed Sony would never do this and if they did that they would go play on the PC are being hypocritical. Not saying everyone but you know who you are, you are a hypocrite by definition.

[Summons75]

I'd say because hypocrites are a big part of fanboys but really 5 bucks a month vs the 25 of Xbl is deffinetly better. Now there is an actual worth while reason to get ps plus besides the "free" games. Now if Sony includes all the ps3,2,1 games that Gaikai will have then this is perfect. If Gaikai is a seperate charge then Sony went two steps forward and one step back. Time will tell if they continue this excellence streak they started by stepping back and concentrating on gamers.

[iamgoatman]

"5 bucks a month vs the 25 of Xbl is deffinetly better."

Are you saying Xbox Live costs $25 a month? what?

[GusBricker]

Let us not forget why Sony gives away free games. The PSN debacle.

PSN+ offered free games, because it had to. It just was not on Xbox Live's playing field.

[amiga-man]

This is a big issue for me and I am still undecided whether I will buy a PS4 because of it despite already being a PS+ member for almost a year now and there is no denying the amount of value I have had from it has been quite staggering, Geikai and the fact that you are not blocked from Netflix etc makes paying for online a less bitter pill but it is not something I'm happy about.

Having said that Sony had little option than to start charging for online, the xbox owners had already opened up that door and must take most the blame, their claims about paying for a premium service now will carry little weight especially if M$ continue to block access to Netflix etc while still carrying adverts.

Sony from a business perspective have done the right thing and the value they offer is head and shoulders above what their competitors do, will I end up buying a PS4 probably, but if there is a lesson to be learnt it is be careful of opening pandoras box too widely.

xbox owners would do well to think about that before buying the highly restrictive anti consumer xbox one because if that business model becomes the norm all gamers pay the price.

[dboyman]

I think its more than that. Maintaining servers is expensive and the extra online services add costs to Sony. Plus with Sony's financial issues, they need extra $$ to make up for that. I'm amazed Sony didn't do sooner....

[R00bot]

Well, there is some hypocrisy, but you still get free games and discounts on PS+.

[Dazel]

If you game online a lot, xbox live is cheap as chips, working out at just over a dollar a week. How can that be a rip off, I've never minded paying it as live has always been head and shoulders above psn. Admittedly psn has caught up but that still doesn't make xbox live poor value for money.

[Clayman]

Is that list of free PS+ games really true? If so I almost won't have to buy a single game again when I get my PS4. Been in the 360 camp the last generation so I don't really know anything. Good morning everyone!

[TongkatAli]

Yeah, if you want to you can just have PS + on launch and play the free games that comes with the sub for the whole year. Sony actually saves you money if you think about it and it has 95% satisfaction rate.

PS + is best thing that has ever happened in gaming, wear that hyprocrisy badge proudly, they're jelly and grasping those straws so tight.

[MoonConquistador]

It is true, but don't think you'll be able to take advantage of them all on PS4. No b/c with older PS games so to take advantage of these on PS4 would require them to be delivered through Gaikai

[CYBERHATER]

It is still unacceptable to have to pay to play no matter the console. What if Steam all of a sudden tried to do this? I'm sorry I'm still sticking with my PS3.

[sway_z]

Don't be sorry...it's your choice!

..besides, I for one don't know you, so it doesn't bother me in the slightest that you will miss out on next gen games.

In regards to MP subs...It's comes off like you don't mind paying for the Car itself, but you object to paying yearly tax or insurance or MOT required to use the vehicle??

Interesting....

[CYBERHATER]

The next generation is not on this console in more ways then (ONE).

[MatriXcian]

I completely agree and id like to offer up the article challange once again. Compared to PS Plus Xbox Live is a complete ripoff.

[airgangstarr]

i dont agree with that at all xbox live is great an u usually can buy it onsale on,line for 30 -40 bucks a year u get so much more on xbox live party chats voice messages i mean the list goes on an on cross game chat is huge so psn gives out free games thats nice an now xbox live does it also who cares hopefully psn steps up its game or its gonna be a shame to pay for

[GreenRanger]

The difference is that Sony are using PS Plus to make back money because they priced the PS4 so low.

With XBL, you have to pay full price for the Xbox One and then buy a Gold subscription.

[Pillsbury1]

Microsoft is lord zed, kicke em in the face!

[Indo]

Its simple, PS+ is for gamers period. I mean you get more bang for your buck, Instant Game Collection alone is worth the buy and the rest is basically extra. XBOX Live used to be for gamers and worth the membership, but Sony sure got the upper hand with not just free online but an optional subscription based membership to fully increase PS3's value all-around. With PS4 coming out requiring PS+ for online, its nothing to complain about if your getting more in return than just playing online and getting couple months exclusives.

[Clarence]

I paid for both when I had gears and mass effect. I will say that live looks better, and I like how fast it moves from page to page. I am very impress with its interface. I think Sony can learn a little from how live is set up.

On the other hand I get more out of PSN plus with the free games every month, and it gives me the same gameplay as live would.

Live just started offering free games every month, but I'm done with M$ for awhile. At least until they change their policies.

[CrossingEden]

because its ok to completely defend til death something that you have been opposed against for years only to defend it because your favorite company is doing it -_-

[SITH]

Nail in coffin meet head on hammer named crossingeden. You nailed it. The hypocrisy of Sony gamers is legendary on the issue of paying for Xbox live. Shortly after PSN launched years ago, all I have heard was how Xbox live sucked because we xbox gamers had to pay. Now all the sudden something we all knew was inevitable has arrived, and instead of crying foul it is suddenly the greatest idea ever. It was inevitable because sony was hemorrhaging potential income by running a free online network. They see the same thing Microsoft has always seen, money. But now, future PS4 gamers are already looking for something else to criticize Xbox live over since their favorite topic is now their problem. What is the excuse now PS4 adopters who claimed they play on playstation because Xbox live has a subscription they could not afford? Where are those people!?

[Belking]

It's called having a double standard...lol

[patsrule316]

(Coming from a person who has 2 Xbox 360s and a PS Vita with PS+, but no PS3, and I preordered a PS4, so you can know where my current and future biases lie)

I think that the article represents a valid point of view, but misses a couple of things.

1) I think it ignores the fact that the reason that Microsoft said they were charging for on-line and services and so forth was because they had a better network, with better matchmaking and so forth. Certainly when the two systems launched, Xbox Live did have a much better network, so they lived up to that. I can't speak to the PSN now compared to Xbox Live as a network.

2) I've never paid more than 35 dollars for a year of Xbox Live, so even though they say it is 50 or 60 dollars, if you look for sales, you can find them. In fact, right now, I believe you can get a year of Xbox Live and 1200 Microsoft points for $45 dollars at Bestbuy today (3 orders of 4 months of live with 400 points at $15 each)

3) If you aren't a PS3 and or Vita owner, and are just coming on board to the PS4, you don't get nearly the value that is being perported. If I remember the speech at the press conference correctly, you will get one PS4 game a month, the first of which will be a lesser version of Drive club, and later months will be some of the indie games they had on stage. But you won't be getting the huge library that you would if you also had the other system. So PS4 is a phenominal value if you have a PS3, PS4, and Vita, but not nearly as good a value if you are joining the Playstation community now with PS4 as your first system.

I am saying these to add to the discussion, not because I think Sony is wrong for charging for multiplayer. I paid for Xbox Live for years without a problem, and I pay for PS+ right now with just a vita, and I'll happily keep my PS+ subscription. I am just saying it isn't quite as one-sided as the article made it seem.

[T2]

I agree with most of what you said, but there is a lot of potential for any number of add-ons with plus... Like if the Gakai network goes up, they could add any games they wanted to that ps plus service... there could be any number of games.

But the main point I agree with is that everything is perspective, paying for xboxlive was ok with me when it had stuff I wanted. I personally never saw the beginning so I couldn't see any difference in quality.
But there is no double standard in evaluating every purchase you make, it's just a cop-out or a "told you so" to say otherwise. If I say I would never pay for online, but then a company releases a 99 dollar console with online membership, I'm going to reevaluate that decision. As sony's price was lower than I expected, I am reevaluating that decision... And will check out the games they have as well.

[HappyWithOneBubble]

Neither are acceptable to me but I knew PS4 would have a fee. The difference is you can't watch things like Netflix and Youtube without paying for Xbox Live. You don't need to pay for them with PS Plus.

[Ayabrea123]

It's funny how people are calling hypocrites for people praising Sony PS+MP requirements. First of all, No one is 'praising' it but okay with it. Xbone fanboys are always so salty. Att he end of the day, the only thing behind a Paywall is MP.. everything isn't thus making XBL STILL a ripoff. The hypoctical thing of it all is, XBONE FANBOYS have no problem dishing out $500 bucks for a Xbone but that was deemed too expensive and greedy when Sony did it. So who's being a hypocrite now? This argument is pointless. At some point you realize servers aren't running for free. Sony possibly understands that an influx of more people will be on their system far more with the PS4 than the ps3 and to handle that huge base, some small sacrifices have to be made. Most of the reason I'm not mad is because I still keep my freedoms regardless if I need online or not. It's not forced and its optional. If you don't want to pay you don't have too so get that through your thick skullz Xbone fans. You have to pay REGARDLESS... That's the difference

[PsnGammer21]

Here's the thing none of you want to pay for online which should be free especially after buying a 400 dollar ps4 or 500 shit box lol but when it comes down to love you were paying for chat and to use your apps that should not have been behind a wall in first place. Plus makes paying online not as bad because they give you twenty games right when u get it. The thing here is no one wants to pay online but m$ is greedy bastards while Sony knows its making you pay but at least is giving something worth a damn to pay for the service and like I said earlier you get plus for free practically due to fact that you get like 1000 or 2000 dollars in free games or something like that

[Convas]

Double standards up the wazoo.

Was looking forward to seeing how this would be rationalized. I'm not disappointed!

[T2]

nope every purchase is an evaluation. pros and cons. nobody needs to rationalize anything... something is either worth the money or it's not. Bitter people who paid 7 years of xbl are just here to say "you too, you too" ... so they can brag about the one con in a sea of positives that sony brought forth... most important was fair price. if online subsidizes a fair price, there's no hesitation here.

[ThatsGaming]

Value isn't always measured in money vs what you get.

I am both a PSN Plus and Live Gold member. My experience to date is that the Live network is more consistently stable than PSN, it saves time on patching, it is simpler to use, and more logically organized. PSN gives me free games which is nice too. I know the Live things don't mean anything to a lot of people, but to me they save me hassle, time, and effort all of which are important to me. For example, I had three hours to game randomly one day, I thought God of War III... I booted my PS3, and went into God of War III and told me it needed a 600 mb update... That ate 30 minutes of my 3 hours... (1/6th of it). On 360, this size of update is reserved for only a few exceptions. On PS3 100-800 mb updates are normal.

To me, the "pay for Live" argument was just as heated as the "always on" argument this generation.

It is quite simple, if you don't like it you are free to buy a Wii U or PS4. No body is putting a gun to your head to buy X1...

For me though, my console is always connected. Even when I travel, I take a high speed cellular hot spot with me to maintain connectivity. Always on will not ever affect me, so I really don't care...

But there is one thing I am really looking forward to with the new MS model... They have said that once you buy a game and boot it on your gamertag you have full access to it on whatever Xbox One you log into with or without the disc. Being someone who games in many different sites, on many different consoles this gives me something that is important to me. And also they allow the game to be used within your family without the disc.

I know that others are not in that situation. And that means they will go buy a Wii U or PS4. But, for me, I am sticking with X1 because it provides me something I want and the others don't provide.

People should not judge something before they understand how it may be useful. Then, they should judge it on whether it is useful to them... And go from there.

[Godmars290]

"For example, I had three hours to game randomly one day, I thought God of War III... I booted my PS3, and went into God of War III and told me it needed a 600 mb update... That ate 30 minutes of my 3 hours..."

To me it sounds like you either don't have PS+ or you never setup the automatic update feature it has. Its not automatic, you have to set a time where it turns itself on, logs in, checks and downloads any updates you need, but the feature is there.

And again, since I find myself constantly repeating this point, the issue with paying for XBL is the difference between a Silver and Gold account. Of essentially having every other online related feature like the browser, Facebook, Netflix and Hulu, the last two which require their own additional and separate subscription fees, being tied to multiplayer access, which is really the only reason someone would get XBL Gold. PS+ is only about multiplayer and other online gaming related features.

[Valenka]

PS+ is significantly more worth the money than Xbox Live, but it's still hypocrisy at its finest.

[strifeblade]

hypocrasy at its finest. Just admit it- its a negative point on the console.

[T2]

I agree but what if that factored into the price? would you still feel that way? If the console was 549 with free online, would you still see it the same way?

[Kaneda]

It is still a better deal... 6 yrs PS+ 360 + 399= 759.00

549 is still a better deal...

For Sony $360 + 50 mill (console probably sell way more)= $18,000,000,000

[strifeblade]

I'm an xbox gamer- but any gamer knows xbox live gold can be boought periodically through out the year for 39.99, however i have not once seen a deal on ps+- it always stayed at 49.99.

Is gold really a ripoff? one year microsoft offered me a copy of halo reach or fable 3 (back when they were atleast 39.99 in the store) as well as gold all for 49.99, and i chose fable 3 and no it was not a digital copy- they shipped me a hard copy/retail copy. Not a bad deal if you ask me.

So there you go

[Godmars290]

PS+ covers gaming related thing online. Online features such as Netflix and Hulu are accessible regardless.

XBL uses those extra features in an attempt to get non online and multiplayer Xbox owners to get XBL. Things like Netflix and Hulu should be available to free, silver, accounts.

And then PS+ gives you "free" games as well as discounts where XBL has often been shamed into doing such because PS+ has become popular.

[Gigaguy777]

Really? No one I know has called PSN users hypocrites, they just say "Now we're equal." which is true. Biased BS.

[shysun]

I've been a Plus member for 2 years now! It's been worth it!

[FITgamer]

I've been a member since late 2010. Even if you factor out the included disc based games, avatars, themes, early beta access, timed game trials, dicounts on games/dlc. The PSN/indie titles, that are still playable even if your sub expires, easily add up to and probably surpass the $50/year sub fee. It's definitely worth it.

[MadMen]

This has nothing to do with free online play and everything to do with trust now.

Xbox has broken trust with consumers, SONY has regained it, so you will pay.

[tweet75]

im going to get a great value. Im going to get a ps4 not buy any games at first just have ps plus. Than get free games and discounted games offered through that. You must be patient but if you do it this way theres no better value in console gaming.

[DivineAssault]

Cuz XBLG is a waste of money.. Even with them copying sony with the free games for the nx few months, its still a waste.. Plus its $10 more money! Screw that M$.. PS Plus is good on PSV, PS3, & PS4 too..

[Elda]

I don't play online or multiplayer gaming so I could care less but I do like & have PS+,if I ever wanted to play online or multiplayer games when I purchase a PS4 then it would be no problemo.

[-Gespenst-]

Obviously because of all the benefits from PS Plus. You get tons of free games, (that of course have a limited licence, but you're certainly given more than enough time to play them many times over) and loads of massive discounts. Not to mention the subscription itself is super cheap.

However, with PS Plus, Sony are kind of committing the same crime as microsoft. Microsoft need always on drm and 24 hour checks because they've enabled disc based games to be fully installable onto the drive, and without licence checks, people could just take their friend's game and install it on their own console cost-free ad infinitum, which would directly and heavily impact sales. It's all part of this initiative to do away with disc based software, which enables control via the internet. Possessing something material like a disc means you own it, whereas immaterial things can elude ownership principles.

Sony has made PS Plus more of a necessity by making subscription to it necessary to play games online- a feature MANY people will want. In turn, this will lead to loads more people buying software from PS Plus than before at discounted prices and fully installed on the console (merely because they now have a Plus account and want to get the most out of it). Thus more people will own games immaterially than in disc form, and will be subject to the ownership overriding ts & cs of Plus. I think MS is being a LOT more aggressive about this, but I'm pretty sure Sony has a similar outlook to them.

People who let the games available win them over to the X1 are of course idiots - it's just being mesmerised by flashy, largely mediocre products and selling your consumer rights for a chance to experience them. However, it's not so different with Sony. The difference is we're being mesmerised by what Plus has to offer, and selling away our rights of ownership that way. Sony are making it seem like they're more pro-consumer than microsoft by retaining certain features that MS has removed, but it's totally possible that Sony is just being more cautious and patient about it - gradually unfurling their plan, unlike MS who have gone in all guns blazing and have received an unprecedented backlash for it. All I'd say is don't buy into Sony's shtick too much - don't let your guard down.

I mean, think about how people were cheering so passionately at e3 for Ps4 features that have already been a mainstay of every previous generation of console. We shouldn't be cheering for these things - these things are a part of consumer rights. We shouldn't be treating them as Sony rewarding us or introducing innovative new features. How long before always online rules the world of electronic entertainment and we're cheering for Sony's retention of 2 month long rentals on digitally downloaded games, while MS only allows a week? What could be happening is a gradual diminution of our rights as consumers, and more and more unstoppable profiteering on the part of big corporations.

That said, I'm not an online gamer, so none of this really effects me. I'll continue to buy disc based games, and I won't be signing up to Plus. Hence if I had to choose between X1 and Ps4, it would without question or hesitation be the Ps4. I just hope physical media doesn't actually phase out, because that's when the corporations will assume absolute control. Unless the hackers can help it.

[skyblue14213]

You are absolutely right(agreed + bubble). I was telling my friend the same thing the other day about me not going gaga because sony did not go the anti-consumer route like microsoft did, but at least they clarified it that used games will have no restrictions.

That fact of the matter is that drm & anti-consumer practices should have never been on the table to begin with concerning the game industry. I am glad that sony did the common sense thing & not decide to go the anti-consumer route. But I felt like my IQ dropped a bit temporarily when people were cheering at sony's e3 press conference when it was announced that used games would not be restricted(which have been a standard feature since the beginning of the game industry), it sounded like they were giving away ps4 consoles at that time to everyone in the audience lol.

[ALaish]

PSN is acceptable, maybe and just maybe, because it gave me like 91 games to download and play in 2 years of being it's subscriber.

[Relientk77]

Because Sony cares about making their consumers happy they are not being anti-consumerist

[REAL1]

Very well written is all i have to say. Good day sir

[one2thr]

Simple because MS fans were paying for CROSS GAME CHAT, that was the only real difference between PSN and XBL...

And I find it funny that people aren't mentioning the fact that Sony is aiming for THE FASTEST GAMING NETWORK avialible,and having GaiKaistream demos/games and being able to play them while there downloading COST MONEY to maintain and heck, PS+ has proven to be WELL worth $60 and it gives the consumer 2 or moregames a month on ALL PlayStation platforms...

So why would any sane PlayStation vet would complain about having to dish out $60 when, they're getting more than what their spending?... (Coming from a guy, that loves to play for free)

Heck I had PS+, the only reasonwhy I havent renew my subscription is that I missed the last deal they had with 3 freemonths of PS+ on top of the year. Now Im waiting until that deal comes back around...

[strifeblade]

you do know the new msoft cloud service is far more advanced the gakai cloud... microsoft have been devolping it for years, sony just bouoght gakai not long ago. gakai can't do azure cloud computing while the x1 can, gakai cant stream ps4 games while the x1 allows to access and play your game at any console in the world.

[Neko_Mega]

One blocks you from using Netflix and so on. An the other only stops you from playing games online.

Plus one of them offers more then just cross party chat (even if it doesn't have it, but who knows if PS4 will have it or not).

[TakahashiDemon]

If it makes PSN better then I say Sony should go for this. It's no big deal to me as I was planning in getting PS Plus for the PS4 anyways :)

[Orionsangel]

Maybe I'm wrong, but doesn't MS brick your Xbox One if you don't sign into XBL once every 24 hrs? Sony doesn't do that. Sony wins.

Also, MS is forcing Kinect on us. Nobody wants to pay an extra hundred for that useless device. MS should have announced an Xbox One bundle without Kinect for 399, but for some strange reason. They've bet the bank on a failing device called the Kinect. They insist on making it the norm. It's like they're trying to shove pieces of shit down our throats.

[mediate-this]

I have ps plus and I don't use it as much, I can see its a good deal tho

[romancer]

I have never paid more than $39.95 for a year of XBox Gold, including the current year. Good deals are commonplace. I don't pay to have YouTube or even Netflix (I use a computer. hooked up to my HDTV, for such things.)

The argument that XBox Live members are being "forced" to pay twice for such add-ons makes no sense to me. Since when is Netflix or HBO-GO free to anyone?
I have no interest in watching such add-on services via XBox; i'm there to play games and XBox Live provides a good network of friends.

[FlyShootRaceSims]

LOL at excuses! What a bunch of flip-flopping hypocrites! Spin it all you want, sugarcoat it to your heart's content, it doesn't change the fact that you now pay to mp. I)10t$!

[skyblue14213]

For the longest time I have criticised microsoft mainly because the only thing gaming related that was offered with the gold sub was online multi-player, couple that with the fact that there would be ads plastered all over .

When ps + came out I would have never payed for it because it was simply not worth it in the state that it was in at that time. But as time went by it has become a better service overall & for the last 3-5 months I have been debating into getting ps + mainly for the discounts on content & the amount of free content that is offered on a rental basis as long as you are subscribed to the service.

Paying to play online alone is still not good unless something like dedicated servers is offered or something else similar of value. I needed more of a reason to get ps + to finally subscribe to it in which I finally did a few days ago.

Now on the games that I bought through ps + since I subscribed ps + has already saved me at least $15-$25 already on just the games I bought through the ps + discount alone. I will always prefer physical copies of content over digital content. But I have over 130+ psn games + other content, not to mention I have a 1 tb hdd installed in my ps3. I still don't like paying to play online. Though unlike xbl gold ps + offers way more gaming related stuff & does not plaster ads all over & does not shove non gaming related services down gamers throats for a paid subscription service.

Also ps + is cheaper than xbl gold, not by much but it is still cheaper & offers way more as far as gaming related stuff is concerned. I am going to get a ps4 & install a 2 tb hdd sometime on or near launch if possible. Like I said before I don't like paying for online play, but what is offered on ps + goes beyond just paying to play online & for that I am willing to bite the bullet as long as more gaming related stuff is being offered beyond online multi-player play & my consumer rights is not infringed upon.

[tonywood]

I admit when I'm wrong or mis-speak. Eariler, I said I was going pc...and not getting a ps4. Well...after reading this piece, I immediately ran to gamespot (and luckily) got my ps4 pre ordered!

Did not know ps plus gave out that many free games! Also....I got a crystal white ps3 super slim, with a fee yr of ps plus! I will use that for my first free year! Oh yea....the last of us is epic!!

[fullmetal297]

Sony's decision is only going to reinforce my decision to solely use my PC 99 percent for my gaming demands while I use my PS4 for just exclusives. Honestly, why should I pay for Xbox Live or PSN plus when there are FREE and infinitely better alternatives? I refused to pay for Xbox Live before and now I will refuse to pay for PSN.

[s45gr32]

I agree with you 100 percent.

[xer]

wait wait... using youtube requieres a xbox live subscription? Oo

[strigoi814]

Let me tell you why...because Sony is very transparent to where our $50 is going to..we have discounts, free games, themes, cloud saving etc..and they clearly said that they need to upgrade their servers, sometimes being honest is just good and sony users know sony need to improve on that so they will have a good online experience..

Not like MIcrosoft $60 where is it really going?? just for online access?? Why cost too much?? If sony offers it free on PS3..

[baodeus]

So where do u think those money going into xlive? Didn't they just expand their server to 300k? Maybe MS treat people smarter than they really are where as Sony have to explain everything because Sony know exactly how they are. It has been said for a longtime that online services required money to maintain, u can't improve a service if there are no money going into it. It is business 101 and i thought people would understand it by now.

[ufo8mycat]

There is a difference

PSN pretty muched offered everything that LIVE had. Only difference is you had to pay for LIVE.

Now that you have to pay for MP on Playstation, it's difference.
PSN+ will not only offer MP, but amazing discount on so many games.

In other words, it offers MUCH more then LIVE does, therefore it is far more acceptable to charge for it.

[s45gr32]

Sorry I am sticking with STEAM until this clears out. Now the only way to play online free on PS4 hopefully is ugh via peer to peer servers. Not ideal but better than nothing. I still don't know where did the main source of this information came from, that I want to know because it was not stated at E3.

[Condemnedman]

Now paying to play online is alright?

the flip flopping you guys do is laughable. Lol

[Deadpool616]

I'm sticking with having my online free. I guess this is where I stop with consoles....I don't know. I'll just have to wait and see.