A Slightly More Convincing Reason For The Xbox One's Forced Online

Kotaku - There's a very good argument that Microsoft's biggest failure this week was not its Xbox One policies, but its messaging. The way gamers were lumped with obligation, instead of opportunity.

[JokesOnYou]

Well yes they screwed up in the delivery of how their online policy and drm works but in the end they just need to advertise the benefits of being able to share your games now with 10 friends across 10 different consoles. That's a major convenience for a lot of gamers.

Plus more devs seem to be saying the cloud does indeed have some great uses for games, they should demonstrate this with a live demo of this "persistant" open world game vs the same game without the cloud.

[theBAWSE]

Oh please

Ms are are back peddling so fast I'm surprised they haven't regressed in age!!!

They are in FULL damage control the only ones lapping it are the shocked and awed by this terrible draconian machine like you @jokesonyou your desperately hoping ms can turn this around and cling to every word ms says with PR talk rest of us ain't that stupid

It's less powerful than ps4 costs more and if cloud does become what ms claims it to be.. sony have stated it's clouds services can do the same but are realistic about when this will happen

You want the truth about this bull.. Here you go

http://www.eurogamer.net/ar...

[JokesOnYou]

Why so angry? Lets assume you're right they are backpedalling; Why would a gamer who complained about restrictions complain when they decide to backpedal and make things less restrictive/more convenient? Shouldn't you be cheering for such a outcome? oooh thats right, lol We know why you dont. Also given the similarities in hardware these consoles are closer in power than last gen with ps4 on paper only having a slight edge, as the eurogamer piece explores one aspect not the consoles as a whole, since X1 custom built cpu http://mobile.pcmag.com/#!/... has not been fully disclosed. So other than $$$ spent and talent I doubt there will be much difference in graphics, as E3 demonstrated micro delivered with games. Finally costs are offset by what you get in the standard package= value...dont be surprised if X1 sells more at a higher price because of this factor, hell iphones, ipods, macs, etc which I happen to dislike sell tons better than cheaper devices.

Next?....

[theBAWSE]

Why the anger Hmmm let's explore

1. Ms are only backeddling on things said.. NOT on features.. Like he said 'buy an Xbox 360'

2. Ms think consumers are retarded coming out with PR bull thinking people other than Xbox fanatics like yourself will actually believe this crap

3. This cloud nonsense is exactly that.. Like in the Eurogamer.net interview it cannot do all ms are sayin they are embellishing the truth to make up for the short falls of hardware inferiority SHOW ME EVIDENCE off cloud improving a game in graphics... I'll wait?and show me evidence these 300.000 servers ms keep talking about are not virtual...

4. Your actually talking about sales? Glad you can see the future.. Shame you didn't look into that crystal ball 2 years ago and and do a trending topic on twitter informing ms they are royally going to pi$$ off their existing fanbase

5. Don't talk about games ms have done the same for their past two consoles.. Show off games at the beginning then abandon the console two years before its successor.. Where are your AAA games past two years? Where's your the last of us, beyond two souls?

Fact of the matter is your wounded.. Your a hurting blinded ms follower sucking in PR talk.. I'll wait for reality to hit you..in the hope you stop typing nonsense acting like a Microsoft parrot

I miss the OF's (Original fanboys) of 6 years ago... the mart, powerofgreen, giant enemy crab because as much as they trolled they were funny and didn't believe every bit of PR bull...

[mcstorm]

@theBAWSE I have to disagree about the AAA games over the last 2 years as the 360 has had Forza Horizon, Halo 4, GoW 3, Forza 4 in the last 2 years.

It just all depends on what type of games your are into depends on what you class as AAA games. For me Last of us looks like an amazing game but im not interested in beyond two souls.

For me this e3 I was more intrested in games on the PS3, Xbox One and WiiU than on the PSV, 3DS and PS4. At the end of the day we have a choice for a reason and just because you like Sony games better than Nintendo or xbox games dose not mean other people do.

If you like the PS4 better then the One and WiiU good for you but stop trying to tell people what they should or should not buy as we are all different and having Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo in the industry is far better than only having one as it gives us choice and also keeps it interesting as they are all trying to out do each other as well as bring in there own ideas.

[theBAWSE]

@mcstorm agreed everyone likes what they like

To me halo 4 forza 4 geow 3 were games not in triple AAA status just games off of AAA names they should have been saved for Xbox one... It just seemed milked a little.. Like uncharted 3 should have been saved for ps4 maybe then the last of us would have arrived sooner..

Also when I say AAA games I should have stated NEW ips...

But yeh everyone will get their console of choice I'm just tired of clowns in avatar an buy nature like jokesonyou rehashing PR bull when normal people live in the world of reality.. Me personally I hope ms remove certain restrictions competition is healthy so I agree with you on that Aswell..... Who would have thought lol

[darx]

theBawse

You never had any intention in getting one anyway. Yeah so why so angry!

With this news if it works as they are saying puts me back on board.

[Army_of_Darkness]

"We can share our games with 10 other people"
Cool. Glad your enjoying that game enhancing feature. It takes only ONE good reason to convince certain people to buy a $500 item sometimes lol!

[MikeMyers]

To me it's sad how so many want to turn a blind eye to the possibilities of next. gen gaming including what the cloud promises to do and instead keep the focus only on DRM, Kinect being mandatory and always online.

The biggest question to me is the DRM. Kinect being on every system is good imo. That way it's not treated as just a peripheral that won't get any support. Always on is great too, that way Microsoft can push for cloud technology and those 10 people family circle can access games at any time from anywhere within that circle. That's a huge bonus because in essence it could mean sharing games being bought. I want to have further clarification because it sounds to me that up to 2 people can play the same game which simply isn't possible with physical disc games in the past.

[DragonKnight]

@JokesOnYou: I don't think we should believe the hype. I mean think about it. Consoles are rarely on the forefront of true innovation simply because PC gets there before them. If cloud computing were really all that amazing, we'd have seen it already on the PC by now. SimCity is the only game I'm aware of that's supposedly doing it and look at the kind of issues it's had.

I swear that "cloud computing" is merely the chance to put always-online games on the Xbox One, which is an insidious method to force a persistent connection beyond the 24 hour check in, and Microsoft is disguising it as this amazing feature that's totally going to revolutionize gaming and make up for the Xbox One's hardware shortcomings (i.e. reserving 3GB or RAM for OS') when in actuality it won't.

Even this article's title proves what I've just said. Cloud computing is a convincing reason to force online on the Xbox One. Force it. And unlike the mandatory check in, if you want cloud computing to work you absolutely always have to be online while using it. No online, no cloud computing regardless of the 24 hour check in (or 1 hour if you're playing on a friends console).

[guitarded77]

FROM ARTICLE:
"There's a very good argument that Microsoft's biggest failure this week was not its Xbox One policies, but its messaging."

Nope... There are some people making that argument, but it's not a "very good argument". Hell, it's not even a "good argument". It's just fanboy dribble. We know the truth behind XBOX One. If MS really cared for anything other than the fastest route to gamers money, they wouldn't have done what they did.

People can say "It's to make gaming better" until they're blue in the face, but even then they're still full of it. I've heard people say "It will make games cheaper". And I say "BULLSPIT"... does anyone really believe they would drop the price of games under any circumstances? They already know we're willing to pay $60, they aren't going back.

[MikeMyers]

@DragonKnight,

"Consoles are rarely on the forefront of true innovation simply because PC gets there before them. If cloud computing were really all that amazing, we'd have seen it already on the PC by now. SimCity is the only game I'm aware of that's supposedly doing it and look at the kind of issues it's had."

We have already seen MMO games that are always alive haven't we? What we are seeing now are single player games blurring the lines with online gaming. Forza 5 showed the possibilities, Destiny did as well.

"I swear that "cloud computing" is merely the chance to put always-online games on the Xbox One, which is an insidious method to force a persistent connection beyond the 24 hour check in, and Microsoft is disguising it as this amazing feature that's totally going to revolutionize gaming and make up for the Xbox One's hardware shortcomings (i.e. reserving 3GB or RAM for OS') when in actuality it won't."

Cool. Then don't be a part of it if you're not impressed. Some of us are eager to see what transpires. We are all happy. You can go on your merry way and we can look forward to it. Unless of course you are trying to impose your opinion onto others which is not acceptable.

[grassyknoll]

Persistent open world games have existed for years, they're called MMO's. Sharing games with 10 "friends" is on the same console, on XBLA you can only have a game on one console! No way is MS gonna let that happen, controlling consumers purchases is the whole point of the machine. All the disadvantages of a console combined with all the disadvantages of a PC, none of the advantages of either.

[wicked]

No it's on different consoles. here:

news.xbox.com/2013/06/license

Give your family access to your entire games library anytime, anywhere: Xbox One will enable new forms of access for families. Up to ten members of your family can log in and play from your shared games library on ANY Xbox One. Just like today, a family member can play your copy of Forza Motorsport at a friend’s house. Only now, they will see not just Forza, but all of your shared games. You can always play your games, and any one of your family members can be playing from your shared library at a given time.

[kneon]

Most of what is "only possible with the cloud" really just needs what we've been used to calling dedicated servers. Calling them "cloud" doesn't magically bestow mystical powers upon the servers.

[Divine]

just to put my 2 cents in lol. PS4 is just overall the better system especially when it comes to gaming. examples you ask surreee.:

pay attention and i still left out somethings * move-level motion controls integrated into your controller

* a headset jack integrated into your controller

* a new input pad that allows hand gestures (for scrolling, zooming in/out, swiping, double tapping, and other related actions we've gotten used to)

* a constant recording of your previous 5-10 minutes of gameplay.

* the option to livestream your game without uploading anything or doing anything.

* the option to connect as a controller to a friend's console, to help him with a game or join him on a game that doesn't normally support online co-op, including the option to take over his controller slot and help him with a game segment.

* Cross game voice chat.

* the ability to instantly put the console into sleep mode from any state, and instantly bring it back and continue your game from where you left off.

* Vastly superior online interface due to better built in applications and services not possible on PS3.

* the ability to stream any PS4 game to your Vita and play the game using the Vita's screen and be able to control it fully.

*PS4 will used Gaikai for instant demos support without downloading them from the store. You will also be able to Rent Games before you buy them on PS4..

* Gaikai support for playing full games while they are downloading.

Gaikai promises within over time. you will play every game from PS1,PS2,PS3,PS4

* better support for porting graphical engines and game engines designed for PC due to the more streamlined PC architecture.

* support for 4K video output for media purposes.

* Vastly superior web browsing and media streaming.

* Vastly superior loading times, vastly superior graphics, vastly superior storage (according to Sony)

* Built in speaker on the controller

* Continue downloads when console is in power save mode (does not need to fully turn on as the PS3 does for auto-downloads via PS+)These are just things we know of, there're probably quite a few things we don't know of. Again more will be reveal later this Summer. im not expecting xbox to be exactly like ps4 but. just differentiate themselves the right way. thats already gone with the wind though i like digital when it comes to certain things but when it comes gaming. i like to see my collection of games building up . like right now I would never download the last of us on to my system. But see this is where sony is the future. because they give us the "option"

[Teflon_Don]

most of these things already available on xbox one, in fact some of these features were copied from the Xbox 360.

Devine, PS4 doing it better...

Firstly you cannot prove that as you dnt know how the xbox one is implementing these features. Online wise xbox has always been a generation ahead of sony. I dont see that changing.

personally id like to install all my games and play them off the system without having to do disc swaps.

[Divine]

@teflon_Don i am aware of that. . ps4 just does these things better. also i said sony gives you the option. i dont understand why you shared that information with me.

[Divine]

@Teflon_DOn though. xbox one seems to be your preference and interest so i cant argue with that.

[dennett316]

Teflon Don, when you're playing those games off your system, you'd better hope the internet connection never craps out, or you're booted off your game after an hour.
No such problem on the PS4...just put in a disc and play, doesn't even need to be connected to the net at all.
I'd rather carry a couple of discs around than put up with Microsoft hovering over my shoulder ready to pull the plug if my hourly check in fails.

[Death]

Hmm...your hourly check in happens daily and can use your cell if needed. You will happily carry discs and swap them? Funny how this last gen that was forbidden when the 360 had a game that used multiple discs. The new Xbox eliminates disc swapping between games and the PS4 is better since you canget up and change discs...

Really, cross game chat is being heralded as a big PS4 selling feature? Welcome to 2002. Sony built an Xbox with their latest offering and even included a paid online service that absolutely nobody wanted and will never subscribe to. If this isn't their last console before becoming a software maker only I will be impressed. The hypocrisy of it all is overwhelming.

[pete007]

Lies and promisses. Most 360 already has. Thanks any way. None of theese Will make me buy a ps4. Msft is all about revolution not evolution. And the games i Want are on the ONE

[dennett316]

The cloud stuff is possibly neat and all - though remember Sim City and it's need for server side calculations that didn't actually exist? - but what happens if your connection glitches out while you're playing a game with cloud functions? It stops working.

The only reason for MS' online check in is DRM...it's that simple, it's about control. The shared game library is the single positive that comes out of it all, and even that's restrictive as only 2 people can access the library at any one time.

Besides all that, the PS4 has cloud functions as well, including the streaming of PS3 games to provide some form of backwards compatibility. There's nothing the One can do that the PS4 can't also do, other than Smartglass. And frankly, Smartglass is barely worth bothering with unless you have a desperate need to call in air strikes in a really inconvenient way.

MS crippled the potential of their console by insisting on Kinect as standard, and then looking to restrict how we are allowed to use the games we own. Whoever is making the decisions over there needs to be fired.

[DARK WITNESS]

when you share a game with 10 friends on 10 different consoles, does not mean all 10 can logon and play the game at anytime?

Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought you can share with 10 people but only one person would be able to access the game at any given time.

edit;

ok so I done some double checking and it is confirmed that only one person can play a game you have shaired.

So really, it adds nothing that I could not do before by just giving someone my disk.

ok it's a little convenient because I don't physically have to go to the person or them come to me in order for them to play. At the same time there are still restrictions in that i can only share it with 10. My disc I can share with anyone I like and they do not have to be online in order to play it.

I just don't get how people can be hyped for stuff that has been the simplest and most basic of abilities since consoles first showed up 30 years ago.

MS have somehow managed to turn it into a privilege and people are actually happy about it and defending it...

It's like the bully at school taking some kids lunch and then leaving him the scraps for lunch and the kid is sooo greatful at least he has scraps for lunch. He forgets he actually had a full lunch and maybe if he had some ballz and stood up for himself he would have a full meal.

Anyway...still waiting for a really solid benefit to all this.

[dennett316]

Only 2 people can access the library at any one time....not sure how it works in regards to playing the same title. I doubt Activision would be OK with 2 people being able to play CoD online off only one copy of the game on two different consoles though.

[DARK WITNESS]

Thank you, I stand corrected. I was just going by what I read in some interviews.

[kneon]

@dennett316

I think it is two, the owner and one friend.

They could never allow all 10 to play the same game at the same time otherwise you would see people setting up a clan that only buys 1 copy of COD between them. I doubt Activision would be ok with an 80%+ drop in sales.

[LoveOfTheGame]

Only two, this part is new to me, can access the same game at the same time(original owner and one other).

All ten people and yourself can access the library at the same, meaning if you had 10 games in your library those ten people could all play a separate game of yours.

My question is how does this show up? Is it a giant pool of everyone's games or do you go to that persons gamertag and hit view library?

[JokesOnYou]

1. uhm that makes no sense, allowing sharing with 10 friends is indeed a incredible benefit:
http://m.neogaf.com/showthr...

2. bad PR happens from time to time with every large company. ..SO, get over it or dont buy ONE, lol.

3. Maybe, maybe not but I'll see for myself, never said it was the holy grail of gaming but certainly a fanboy isnt a legit source to believe.

4. huh? You brought up cost, I explained why it may not matter, example iPhone

5. Halo4, Gears3, Forza4 are huge favorites of mine that all came out in the last 2 yrs, plus other than now with TLOU for ps3 coming its been pretty dry for blockbuster games on ps3, micro showed some great support for 360 this summer at E3.

lol, no solid points just ranting, heres a tip to help ease your pain.....Be a gamer not a hater, buy what you like, but you're not better then me because I choose to buy something different. Resorting to personal attacks doesn't help your case.

[theBAWSE]

1. What has that got to do with him saying buy an Xbox 360?

2.bad PR happens yep... So CHANGE the dumb features don't spout crap thinking we are dumb enough to believe it.

3.oh so now it's u will see for yourself but before you have been standing on top of Microsoft mountains shouting about cloud computing... Lol like I said SHOW ME EVIDENCE OF A GAME BOOSTED IN GRAPHIC BY Cloud.. As you tout it so much

4.'dont be surprisedised if x1 sells more at a higher price ' did you not just say that? You forgetting your own delusions you spout

5.yes your a typical' I'm a brutus beefcake and I shoot everything in my way grrrrrrr' type of gamer.. Good for you xbone is definitely for you and that's your perogative I have no issues with that.. I'm the type of gamer that likes diversity which is why I play sony platforms which is why I like journey, flower looking forward to beyond two souls but also love uncharted , killzone etc... DDifferent strokes for different folks

Truest comment you have ever said 'fanboy isn't a legit source to believe' yet you spout constant crap.. The irony... Fanboys in mummy's glass basements shouldn't throw stones

Happy gaming

[Unicron]

The very fact anyone is defending being able to share a game they own with only 10 people and not, say, anyone they want proves how ridiculous the whole thing is.

I won't defend a less crappy policy when it's still overall a crap policy.

[theBAWSE]

Lol that's blinded fanboys like jokesonyou for you

Guess what jokesonyou... I can share my eventual ps4 games with ALL MY FRIENDS AND FAMILY... KINDA UNLIMITED.... not just ten

[rela82me]

Microsoft realized (perhaps to early) that digital distribution is the future. With the ability to shared unlimited games wirelessly would be suicide, however, how often does anyone share a game with more than 10 people?

This is a fantastic feature, especially because it gives people who aren't within driving range the ability to do things that you would normally have to ship. I'd certainly a feature ANY gamer would want. People are just upset because they are clinging on to the physical world, and its hard to accept digital distribution.

[Jeff257]

@rela82me

Their is a difference between digital distribution and buying a physical copy of a game you then have to install and have it associated with an account. Buying a physical copy should mean I can hand the game to a friend and they can play it with no restrictions. Also if it is a single player focused game or one with a single player component I should still be able to play it even if my console isn't online. That would also go for DD games with Single player.

Digital Distribution has been a big thing for quite awhile now. That is why XBLA and PSN Store have done so well with downloadable games. In fact Sony has embraced DD a bit better than MS when they started doing Day One Digital releases of retail games. They gave gamers the option of staying home and buying their games online or going out to buy the physical copy. MS on the other hand was very resistant to even doing that and instead was adamant on waiting 6 months before releasing DD copies of retail games.

This is a direct quote from XBOX Live's UK Product manager last year in regards to Day One Digital.

“We don’t do Games on Demand on day one, we focus on boxed retail for day one,” added Bhardwaj.

“That’s where our focus has always been and will remain that way for the foreseeable future.

“We release a game roughly six months after it arrives at retail at full ERP. That’s our model and we’ll be sticking to that.

“It’s a successful model, so why change something you don’t need to?”

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/r...

So now all of a sudden MS is supposedly the big guys behind DD? I don't think so. They are just keen on the idea of locking down their system and telling people what they can do with the products they buy. In other words MS is the wrong company to even be in the gaming business anymore and shame on anyone who continues to support them before they change their ways.

[Mikelarry]

@ unicorn took the words our of my mouth. well said

[Valkyre]

I will only reply to no 5 because all the rest are already covered.

Are you, dear sir, implying that 360 has more exclusive games and support coming this year than the PS3? Or that the PS3 has no "blockbuster" games? LMAO

You listed 3... THREE exclusive games in the last TWO years...

You know how many blockbuster exclusives the PS3 had in 2 years?? It probably is more than 20 hardcore exclusives (not even counting PSN exclusive masterpieces like The Journey)

In fact Mr. JokesOnYou, PS3 will have in this year ALONE the following exclusives:

- God of War: Ascension
- The Last of Us (proclaimed as contender for game of the generation)
- Ni No Kuni
- Gran Turismo 6
- Beyond: Two Souls

And that is only blockbuster exclusive games comming from top developers getting rave reviews

Take a closer look at the diversity and quantity and QUALITY of those PS3 games for 2013 and please.... OH PLEASE... give me a list for the 360 for this year... (you can even list kinect games if you have trouble finding actual worth mentioning exclusives lol)

Make me laugh Joker...

[NameRemoved0017]

Anyone else notice all the don't hate the xbox one articles recently? Is microsoft trying to trick people into thinking the xbox one is good?

[pompombrum]

If you notice there is also quite a lot of sales rep like people on here now. I've had a few PMs off people after the moment I admitted the sharing with 10 people thing was cool and it basically read like a line a sales rep would use to try and close a sale.

[Kyosuke_Sanada]

SO many Band-Aids, so little time.....

[rela82me]

The product is good, perhaps not for a broad of audience such as ps4... The product itself has some truly amazing features. Idk why people are so worried about the kinect, it has been confirmed to be able to stop the transmission of data and functionality for games that don't require it. Drm is still questionable as to how exactly it works. No publisher has (or will based on the negative outcry) support not allowing their games to be traded. Both consoles will have a fee, if decided by the publisher.

Not only that it has superior software, architecture, more os features, strong cloud support, great games, wireless game access.

I understand that I don't have the most popular view on this, but no one can say the console itself in most situations still functions as a great gaming device. It may not have the same specs as ps4,but it has the specs for the things I find most important. Handling multiple tasks, and producing strong graphics, which is all I ask for .

[pompombrum]

With kinect it's simple.. just give us the option to completely disconnect it from the console. They can talk a good talk as much as they want but there is no reason why they can't at least meet people worried about their privacy half way and just let them not have kinect connected if they are that bothered by it.

[Hicken]

If Kinect stops functioning for games that don't require it, why can't I unplug it?

There is no question about the DRM: if the system is not connected every 24 hours, you cannot play your games. If you are on your account, but on another person's system, the authentication process must be repeated every HOUR. This is pretty evident.

Games are allowed to be traded in, but only through "authorized" retailers. You can only loan a game to ten people freely, and only one person at a time can use said game; outside of those ten, you can loan a game only ONCE.

You know nothing about the software to say it's superior. The architecture is almost identical, though the XBO's is actually more complicated. The "more" OS features are all TV-related, not gaming related. The cloud support is, supposedly, strong, but it really sounds like a bunch of PR BS that seems awfully ambitious and hasn't been proven by any other devices out there, let alone a gaming console.

I most certainly can say that in MOST situations it does not function as a great gaming device. Simply put: MOST people do not have internet, so MOST people would not be able to game on the XBO.

That you're willing to give up rights for "multiple tasks" and "strong graphics" is really sad.

[dennett316]

Kinect is awful for games...it really is. Try to control anything other than a dance game, and the Kinect is just a miserable experience. The Gunstringer is probably the best Kinect game out there, and that has more to do with the art style and quirky sense of humour than anything actually good regarding the gameplay.
The One will have good games, that can't be denied, but they've hamstrung the potential of the machine by insisting on that useless lump of plastic, Kinect, as standard rather than an optional peripheral. They compounded that mistake with the utterly pointless Live TV focus when it's actually Video on Demand that is the growing market. Using Kinect to navigate TV is clunkier than simply using a TV remote, with even voice commands taking longer than a remote press would.
As for game trading...it is restrictive as hell. Only authorised retailers will be allowed to receive the games, so MS and their partners get to fix the prices that you will get for those games. That limits consumer choice, limits the potential for competition, and kills the notion of privately selling your games on eBay where you may well get more money back. It is NOT a good thing. Also, there's no fee for trading games on either console...so not sure where you get that from.
Superior software? Not if it's based around Windows 8 it's not ;) But seriously though, we don't know enough to be declaring this yet. Architecture? What do you even mean by this? The way the hardware is built? If so, then I question how much you actually know about these things because the PS4 architecture is superior and less costly to produce - according to posts on NeoGaf, Microsoft are having problems in production due to their chips being so large it's reducing the usable yield they can get, making them more expensive to produce. OS features? How many of those said features are actually going to be useful? Pinning search engines to the game I'm trying to play or show I'm trying to watch isn't actually appealing. The OS will also be using up 3gigs of the 8 available of RAM, leaving less available for games. PS4 has cloud support, including streaming of PS3 games. It will also have great games, and if this generation is any indication, a greater library of strong exclusives (Microsoft really slipped on this with the 360).
Wireless game access is mitigated by taking a disc with you with the PS4, and that isn't as limited in terms of online check in as the One games will be. Lose connection for any reason and you're booted off your game after an hour. PS4 meanwhile allows you to play your game on any system without even connecting to the internet.

The One is a console born of poor decisions and an attempt to focus on other aspects of entertainment rather than games....that non-focus becomes clear when you see the compromises that have had to be made from top to bottom.

[badkolo]

it has yet to be proven that the ps4 is more powerful as you cant find any specs from ms anywere stating if its ddr3 or not, you cant find the true tf and what chip it uses, so until thats truly known everyone is talking up their wazoo BUT the fact ms hasnt told us the specs makes me wonder if it actually is gimped to the ps4 or if they waited to slowly inform people that its less powerful or maybe its more powerful and they are saving it to hinder the bad publicity they knew was coming.

not sure how to look at it, because while i love the new x1 features and i love the tv stuff and i love the sharing with 10 people and i actually like the new kinect even though kinect 1 sucked, but if the ps4 is actually more powerful and does game streaming and some other new features, so if its actually more powerful which will ensure better looking games on the ps4 now and down the line and its 100 cheaper then x1 is doomed, at the same time i mentioned earlier that devs might favor x1 to thank ms for doing what they are doing. Then we have the cloud stuff, even with gaikai, i think ms's cloud will be better just because its ms and going by xbox live, im assuming they will have a stronger back bone, now if that actually translates to better looking games then not sure what that will change but it might even the field. Still ps4 is 100 cheaper and if its more powerful then x1 and ms have some splainin to do. Rule of thumb , if it costs more it better do alot more or be more powerful, if we are paying 100 more for forced kinect and thats it, then while ill own it i wont favor it.

[Why o why]

If ms had comparable or better hardware they would be shouting from the hilltops. Its not as powerful as the ps4 on paper but I think its unfair to say its gimped quite yet. Time will tell just like it did with dvd<9

[Teflon_Don]

Maybe they havent announced the specs yet because sony will match it. look what happened with price, sony clearly went in to e3 with the idea to undercut, haveing thier conference after microsoft clearly helped that.

[theBAWSE]

@badkolo you seem like a decent guy who loves ms so I won't come at you like that clown who commented first...

There has been confirmation from devs that it's DDR3 and in all honesty I can't see it changing this late in the game.

This sharing between 10 is not great when you realise as with your 360 now you can share games with unlimited people.. Microsoft are cleverly phrasing things till you realise actually that's not a feature but a restriction

I agree with you that ms are ahead in online services but this cloud computing is PR jargon that's been debunked by many.. That's not saying cloud services isn't good but let's be realistic here in the current world we live in.

Kinect like ps eye is a gimmick that doesn't enhance gaming.. You wanna sit down with a controller be lazy and immerse yourself in a game not stand up and be tired waving your arms after 5mins.

I hope you enjoy which ever system you buy though

[badkolo]

its not that i love ms, i smell their bs form a mile away , always have and i see all the issues everyone else does, at my age most of it doesnt matter to me, my main gripe with sony was the whole you will work 2 jobs for it, cell power, 599 pricetag and other stuff that tickled me wrong so i prefered the 360 this gen much more and i did like live much more as well, but i play my ps3 and have every exclusive and love them, I do have a fondness for ms and what they have done and hey im a windows guy, but at core im a gamer and im an adult so ms needs the x1 to either be more powerful or have something else up their sleeve to justify 100 bucks plus a gimped system compared to the ps4 if its actual lesser in specs. The main reason it owuld piss me off is becuase then kinect v2 was forced on us and we paid for it instead of it going to a more powerful console. We also might be missing the point of power for either console as in 5 years cloud gaming might start becoming a true reality.

[rela82me]

I appreciate the calm response in a hostile environment. On one not, we could share unlimited games with 360, sure, however with digital access to our games that system is broken. Where we had unlimited before, we now have wireless connection to the game, without having to give the physical copy away to someone to possibly get lost or damaged. I personally support the idea. I only share my games with 2 people tops.

I'm also not sure about all these claims about the cloud. I mean is obvious the technology isn't there now, but it was said as a goal;anything is possible. However what the cloud already is announced to do spins great in itself

[DARK WITNESS]

@ badkolo

All the things you talked about that put you off the ps3 like the 599 price point and the arrogant remark about working two jobs to buy one, they are all reasons why I didn't like sony or the ps3 when it launched.

However, Sony saw the mistake they were making and made changes. They dropped the price of the ps3 within the first year and in Japan they dropped the price before it even released. At least we know that the reason the ps3 was priced so high was because it was pushing bluray. MS didn't have the balls to support HDDVD in the same way, who knows what we would have had from the 360 if they had.

This time round it's MS who have been arrogant, Telling people that if they don't have the internet they should go buy a 360.. They have over priced their console not because they are pushing a whole new format, but they are trying to force the adoption of an accessory that is only good for playing shovelware. All that funky motion and voice control stuff a smart TV can do and more and more are doing it.

I was a massive xbox supporter the last two gens. I remember people making fun of the ps3 because it was a media hub/ bluray player and not a real games machine. Now MS have turned the xbox brand into exactly that, an all in one box and people now want to support them and give sony stick.

For all the wrong sony did with the ps3 they at least showed they were willing to listen to fans and make changes.

MS has done nothing but blow smoke and mirrors after the reveal and now their response after E3 has been arrogant if not insulting... specially to so many of the very fans who supported them through two generations.

[dennett316]

Badkolo, you're spot on regarding the arrogance of Sony with the PS3 launch. But so far, and for the last couple of years with the approach they've taken - Plus subscription offering such great value and discounts etc - that Sony seem to have learned from their mistakes.
I'm cynical, and I'll keep waiting for the shoe to drop, but so far they're making all the right noises. MS on the other hand seem determined to shoot themselves in the foot with how they're approaching things... "Stick with 360".
I got my 360 on launch day, and was so excited with the potential it offered. My first game for it was Condemned, and I'd never seen anything quite like it before....I was wowed, having never been a PC gamer. It sucks to see MS in this position, but it's entirely self inflicted. Their focus on Kinect and Live TV turned me off completely...absolutely useless gimmicks that offer me nothing. Then all the restrictions came to light, and that did it for me...it's impossible for me to support them at this point.
If they eventually release a version of One without Kinect, without the TV nonsense, and without the restrictions they've imposed...I might consider them a viable option again.

[Death]

DDR3 is lower latency and better for CPU operations. GDDR5 has a fatter pipeline and is ideal for GPU's. GDDR5 is not better than DDR3, each tech has their own strengths and weakness and are better suited for different operations. Neither is ideal for en entire system, but it cuts down on costs. Xbox is using a buffer to run parallel operations with the DDR3 which boosts speed. On paper the PS4 is the winner, but real world results will decide if either system is trully "better".

[Garbanjo001]

Firstly I'm going to share this and then I'm going to reply to it. This is a genius response to the article beneath it in case you missed it:

This defies almost all knowledge of computing I know... I mean, it is possible to send a task via network to a remote computer to process a job on the cloud, and then send back the results. We saw this with the PS3 and the Folding@Home project.

But this is vastly different, vastly more advanced, and to my knowledge not currently possible. Microsoft is basically telling us games could render Pixar Level Graphic games because your game is being processed by 300,000 servers in real time and streaming the results to you... And that's bullshit. I want visual proof.

Show me a game on Xbox One offline, and another online, and show me a gigantic graphical leap... Please. Considering that almost every game at their presentation was multiplatform, either PS4 or PC as well. Then that means the game will not have these features even if they did exist.

Even if it is possible, the amount of data being sent and the speed in which it needs to be sent in real time to achieve what they claim is not possible for everyone even in the USA, let alone the world. Most countries have data speed limits or huge fees for going over a certain allotted data amount.

What is possible is what is shown in Forza, sending your driving style to the cloud and sharing it with others. That seems cool to me, but I would not consider it revolutionary, considering I recall Quake 3 on PS2 doing this by creating an AI ghost to share with friends via memory card, because the game had no online mode, this is just an online version of that. Similar to Spore as well, creating a race that is shared with everyone.

Is that worth always online? I don't believe so... How would that effect Bioshock? Fallout? Skyrim? Metal Gear? It wouldn't, it's not worth alienating some College Kids and Military who can't get online... Let alone most the world. Microsoft envisions a connected world? Good luck with that.

This is the most US focused device I've ever seen.

By the way, Poland, where Witcher is made, is pissed Xbox One won't work in their country, and the Devs of Witcher just found out and are not happy...

Also, Amazon had a poll, 94% said they want a PS4, 6% Xbox One.

Microsoft needs to sell this better to the public. Yesterday 9:57pm

[Why o why]

Well then forza 5 better use that magic cloud to muster up some in game rain as its a 1st party title and the perfect type of game to show n prove the cloud claims....... Ok I'm not expecting rain but am expecting some type of visual proof. The problem will then be that those without aren't getting the best from their console.... PR speak... We've all pushed it or fallen for it at some point.

[Garbanjo001]

This is completely insane, I wish that technology was like this and if it is then I don't know what to do with my opinions about the Xbox. Here is PS4's Gaikai Technology:

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

And this is about as close as we get, with GaiKai launching next year, the technology in the article below has the potential to do exactly what it says. Here is a description about Gaikai's agreement, and description of what it can do.

http://www.sony.net/SonyInf...

Neither console has the capabilities right now, so the race for the next console (and cloud gaming) has just begun. We will see it next year.

[Agent_hitman]

lol whatever.. Xbox is losing fanbase due to that stupid New world order..

[Godmars290]

Whatever the article says, it still misses the point that if an XBO doesn't have online access, its worthless as a game system.

And even when trying to understand what the article is trying to get across, who really wants to game in a persistent world? One which develops and ages whether you're there or not? Again for simple gaming you don't need something like the "Drivatar" that's suppose to be in Forza 5.

If anything, creating such a "character" in a game which learns to act as you would, earns points and plays with other players while you're elsewhere, only sounds like it negates any reason for you to play that game at all.

[Dfooster]

This is lovely but why the need to check in once every 24 hours if you just want to play a single player game then?

[CRAIG667]

BETTER THAN GAME SHARING - http://www.neogaf.com/forum...

[SilentGuard]

There is still no good explanation why the console has to connect at least once every 24 hours. Everything this article points to can still apply whether I'm always connected or not. So far all I've seen point to the benefits of being online, but not the benefits of requiring online.

[Mkai28]

It seems they have gamers in a confined world dealing with strick rules. Are pirates to blame for this, and if so why are honest gamers being punished for this? It also seems the X1 is revetivly a Windows 8 PC. Always being online, with annoying updates.

I think it's always connected because of this cloud business.. Developers seem to be able to change their game daily if they wanted to through the cloud. Like Forza 5 through the cloud, gamers can play against their friends so to speak. The cloud " learns" how they drive so when you race, you race the AI cars that play like your friends on your friends list. So you better hope they cut grass alot and stay off the tracks. So essentially, a game could be changed within the first day of purchase, this could be for the better or for the worst..

[DOOMZ]

Here's another reason, CLOUD PROCESSI http://arstechnica.com/gami...

[Dynasty2021]

MS are in massive damage control mode, and it's too late.

You done fucked it up MS. You done fucked...it...up.

Now please go away and let us enjoy our offline play.

[coffinxnails]

this is awesome. Now I can Share games with my friend 2 states away and vice versa.

I buy new, im not cheap and feel like the developer deserves my money for a good game (except Gearbox)

The only Problem of DRM is that Sony is not doing the same thing. You want steam like sales on consoles? make both consoles download only. That way besides exclusive IP's and DLC incentives they can fight each other to the death over sales on multiplatform digital games.

Come Back and check this post in 8 years when the PS5 is announced and it has the same exact policies as the xb1 has this year. The only difference will be fanboys saying its ok because sony gives them free stuff from time to time.

[dcbronco]

The closer we get to launch the funnier this will get. It sounds like MS is thinking ahead again this generation. Better design usually trumps brute force every time. This sounds like that same thing again.