Cliffy B: Numbers Don’t Work to Allow Used Games, “Disc Based Day one $60 Model is Crumbling”

The announcement that the PS4 would allow used games (at least to the extent the PS3 does) brought roars from the audience, and ‘won’ the conference online. But serial contrarian and Gears of War guy Cliff Bleszinski has come out in defense of blocking used games, something the Xbox One does. - PSLS

[doctorstrange]

It's like he wants people to hate him

[DxTrixterz]

Gears of War - Microsoft. There is your answer.

[Relientk77]

It's like somehow Cliff B, Gears of War and Microsoft are all connected or something

conspiracies. they're here.

[THE-COMMANDER]

Agree.

Sony said more than once, that they are following the PS3 model in terms of used games and DRM.

[darthv72]

the music industry all over again.

you have consumers saying they should be able to download music or convert their music to digital form. then you have the artists and studios saying you can't do that.

There has to be a happy medium here. Before Itunes, there were the various music sharing apps and people using any type of mp3 player to get their digital fix.

then the music industry flexes their muscle and napster takes the fall for the consumers. So then here comes apple to say, we can make things right for both sides. Selling licensed music for cheap gives the consumer the legal right to own the digital copy of a song while at the same time it gives some of that back to the artist that created it.

so maybe MS is the napster....it has to take the fall in this age of DRM for sony to come along and say, we can do things the right way. So it doesnt piss off the gamers but actually gets them to have compassion for the devs and publishers and in turn helps out the publishers in the long run.

There is a right way and a wrong way of doing something. Both Ms and Sony are publishers but one is doing things the wrong way with pushing (MS) and the other is doing things the right way with persuading (Sony).

[Godmars290]

@darthv72:

So you're basically saying we only have Justin Beaver or J-pop level gaming to look forward to. That at some point production costs are going to have to level out if not drop.

[webeblazing]

@darthv72
what???

and dont musicians make most of they money on tour
and if both systems used bluray why dont they put some much content on the disc so it would be too much of a pain to download

[poopsack]

@Darth

Except everything Napster did wrong was for the user's benefit and corporation's loss (of course for their own benefit as well as this was their business model), which pissed off the corporations. Microsoft is the corporation, they wont "take the fall", they'll just pay their way out of it because its whats brought their success so far. Exclusivity (timed or true) and brand spamming (as before) is what they'll hope will make everyone forget all the negatives.

[YNWA96]

Whats wrong with buying a console and never having to pay for a game or multiplayer.... This is not fair :( boo hooo hooooo

[morganfell]

Hey Cliff...relevant much?

Here is the undeniable rule. As soon as you beginb restricting the freedom of consumers, they drop you like a bad habit and find an alternative.

The more you tighten your grip, the more worlds will slip through your fingers.

These idiots calling for DRM worry about the industry when restricting consumers is the very thing that will insure the death of their current structure.

[ThatsGaming]

Interesting because he no longer works for Microsoft.

[ltachiUchiha]

darthv72

The difference with that is xbl wont be selling them cheaper compared to steam or psn. Go look now on xbl vs psn & you will see that the price differentials are a big difference. If any of these 2 were to do such a thing, sony will fit it perfect because they actually hook consumers up with deals all the time & if u have ps plus its not even close. ps plus blows xbl out the water with free games, cheaper games & is just better overall for consumers.

[NewMonday]

if a one time game "license" cost just $20 for a core game then you wouldn't see all this uproar

but asking us to pay the full $60 JUST FOR STARTERS THEN CHARGE ANOTHER $20-$30 is ridiculous.

EA:".. looking at the customer more from an ARPU perspective rather than a packaged goods perspective, we think there's a great opportunity to get $70, $80, $90 from that consumer. But upfront from the clients, it's a $60 price point"

http://www.gamesindustry.bi...

[Perjoss]

@morganfell

star systems

[RumbleFish]

I have never understood the discussion. Used games bring money to the publishers too, because many gamers use the money they got from used games sales to buy new games. I would have bought less than half of my games if the games haven't had a resale value.
I say No! All we can see in these strategies is greed. If they weren't greedy they would have discounted downloadable versions with a rediculous cost for them compared to physical copies.
But look at the greedy pigs at EA: their games are even more expensive when you buy them in Origin instead of a physical copy. Are the people drunk to buy there?
Please excuse any wrong spelling/grammar, I am not a native speaker.

[papashango]

I don't blame him.

The dude feels like he's owed all his dues. Doesn't mean I support him. I just got no beef with a man trying to get his.

[SilentNegotiator]

No, it's the fact that he's been rubbing on EA for the last 6 months. EA is supporting Microsoft with a temp exclusive (believe what you want; EA told Eurogamer 'we can't discuss Titanfall going to other systems' instead of 'maybe'...and we're talking about EA regardless). Thus, Cliffy is supporting Xbox One to make EA happy and hopefully land a job at EA, as he has been trying to do for months.

His Microsoft-heavy history probably helps his anti-consumer bias, though.

[Kleptic]

Cliff is a game designer...not a publisher/producer...I'll wait for Mark Rein's comments on Epic's stance with this...as it was Cliffy B claiming UE3 could 'only be done on an xbox 360'...when the head of Epic, a year later said...'completely untrue'...

the weirdest part with all of this is MS keeps saying they made all these DRM decisions with direct feedback from 'all the big 3rd party publishers', which one would assume would be EA and Activision...

but then both of those publishers clearly stated 'the current online pass policy works acceptably, we don't see any need for that to change' at their own conferences...which is exactly what Sony allows on the Ps4...they won't put passes on their own titles, but will allow 3rd parties to continue doing what the do now...

its not a debate...MS has really pushed themselves into a hole with this DRM stuff, and it doesn't seem like any non-affiliated people are backing them up. Cliff may be, but he's not exactly a go to business executive that has any important feedback...he just makes gears of war games...and more often than not, the company he actually works for (Epic), contradicts his own statements...

[morganfell]

@perjoss - yes in Star Wars but this is something different ;)

[abzdine]

what a jerk this guy is!!
a console that doesn't even work all over the world how can he say this type of nonsense?! if only it worked alright everywhere ok maybe he has a point because he is paid by MS but come on!

Greatness awaits
4>1

[Mutant-Spud]

The answer to music piracy was Spotify, so we can expect to see something like that with games, Greenlight is another response, so you could see a scenario where only the people who invest a certain amount of money in the game get the full featured product on day one. The other solution would just be to move to completely digital distribution and make the games cheaper, EB is advertising PS4 games at about $120 Australian, if they were $30 I would probably buy one a fortnight.
Don't forget we're yet to see the "Steambox" too, that could trump both consoles.

[Why o why]

Maybe Microsoft listened a little too much to the wrong devs. I won't have to deal with anything of the sort cliffy boy. Thanks for ut series btw....great games

[HammadTheBeast]

When money talks, M$ listens.

[solidjun5]

He's the ultimate shill.

[Knushwood Butt]

Cliffy looks like he just stepped out of his meth lab.

[Jazz4108]

As long as third party pubs do t limit trading games at gamestop then its business as usual for trade ins on xboxone. Its been stated several times this is the case with both sony and ms so as far as trade ins it sounds oike nothing is changing. Please provide me a link if anyone knows something that says ms will not let you trade your games in for credit or cas to retailers please.

[Thirty3Three]

Who the hell is this guy and why should I care about him or what he says...?

[RankFTW]

You really don't know who he is?

[Thirty3Three]

@rank;Uh.. no.

Unlike many, I don't spend my life on the internet.

[Thirty3Three]

I agree, completely, MRMagoo123!

Thanks for the explanation :D

[tuglu_pati]

Every time I hear some one say this developer is greedy or this company is greedy, i wonder what the hell you guys have in your head.

This companies are in for the money not to have loses. The truth is I'm not happy with all this DRM and used games talk. But the reality is this developer need to make money or you think they do all this for the fun of it.

[V0LT]

LOL! If every corporation did this I can't wonder but how you would feel then.

[BlackTar187]

Hey Tuglu,

Please explain to me why the consumer is on the knife for this problem? They want money on used games get a reasonable case built and take it to the supreme court to rule on. The consumer should not bear the brunt of the change because the game industry and its retail markets build a bad business model. Fix the model fix the problem. Don't fix the consumer side when its not the consumer side with the problem.

I thin alot of developers do make games for the fun and love of it.

I hope whoever disagreed with me has a great thought out point and shares otherwise you are a sad sad little man

[webeblazing]

yeah completely right but as customers we have to let them know whats not gonna fly then we can meet on middle ground

[blind-reaper]

You have to respect the consumer if your consumer's respect back, with Microsoft's policies you are only hurting legit consumers (people who buy original games).

[tuglu_pati]

@BlackTar187

"I thin alot of developers do make games for the fun and love of it."

I love what i do for living that does not mean i'll do it for free and believe me i will go with whoever pay me more for my work. Its important to love what you do, but you do it also because you need the money to provide your family (if you have one) with the best resources. If you think this developer will go through all the work just for fun, you need a little dosis of reality.

@ BlackTar187 Bellow

If you read my first post, you'll notice that i say im not happy with it, nor do I approve. I'm just saying that every time i hear someone say a company is greedy i wonder, if this someone know this companies are in for money not for the fun of it.

I guess you need to learn how to read and comprehend before replay.

[BlackTar187]

Hey tuglu,

Why not respond to the meat of my post? Why respond to the 5% at the bottom. Fact is your full of it and your punish the consumer thought process for bad industry business model is laughable.

[nypifisel]

If developers want to make more money they have to present us with a product we're willing to pay full price for. There's already been studies that comes to the conclusion that restricting used games lessen profits from game sales - unless the prices of the games drops with over 30%. And we all know that's not going to happen, they just want to have the cake and eat it too.

Why should we (the consumers) pay for that? Sony went with a more consumer friendly approach and god damn will they cash in on that. They'll see that a happy consumer is a spending one, Sony will with this line earn tonnes of money - and they will do this cause they delivered what we wanted, not restricting what we deserve.

[badz149]

consumers are not in the wrong in this! not at all! it's about consumer's rights on physical media that they paid money for that M$ is about to take away!

it's just common sense that if you buy anything physical, you have the rights to keep, lend, trade in or resell them as you wish! XBone is not allowing that or at least not making it easy to do it like the old days!

if they really think that used market really is THAT threatening to the industry, why don't they go full digital like Steam? no one will complain like with Steam because you never have a physical copy to begin with.

they are afraid the world is not ready yet for full DD and still stick to disc based games but at the same time trying to pull a BS!

[Tyre]

@Tugly pati BS We all make money. If you want to make a quick buck...go be a prostitute. Most of the developers do it out of a passion. In the entertainment business, creative people with passion are essential. That's why you get new IPs and Good games. Cliffy is just as wrong. They are all misguided by the end of the console cycle/economic crisis & their religious misguided believe in mobile business models & DRM (especially Cliffy cause he worked so close with Microsoft). Mobile is a fad. Text Necks & Neck Hernia epidemics are on the rise. No one will ever defeat the big screen. The myth that Used games threaten AAA sales has been debunked by Gamestop's real figures & facts dozens of times. Used games stimulate the buying of new AAA titles cause they leave you with more money in your pocket. We have seen this talk since the 80ies and consoles are bigger than ever! The new AAAs will sell even more nextgen. I know my friends & I are all pre-ordering PS4s (thx to Sony we will buy) & we will buy ALL AAA titles. Everybody is excited, Next-Gen will kick off BIG and even Indie Games/Hardware Architecture/ease of development are better than they were ever.....all this BS about the games industry will seem like yesterday's irrelevant nonsense by greedy bastards, as the NextGen drops.

[tuglu_pati]

@Tyre

how old are u? Nevermind :/

[juggulator]

@tuglu_pati
Activision made a billion dollars on Black Ops 2. It's up to them as to how much of a cut Treyarch gets.

[YNWA96]

@ black tar, its obvious as this industry matured, this would happen. We are going digital eventually, and there will be no used games ever again.... So either you will pirate or buy legal.... MS simply making first move, very unpopular, but progressive.... This might eventually lead to much bigger sales of games, but cheaper....

[avengers1978]

And let's hear it for gaming a biggest DBAG, ladies and gentlemen, cliffy b

[Blachek]

He said it like it is.

[nypifisel]

@Blachek

Cliff is clueless. He's not saying it like it is, he's saying it like they want it to be. If AAA games can't make profits from 5 millions in sales, then perhaps that game shouldn't had cost that much to make. It's how everything works, why would there be an exception for games? It's a product like everything else.

Seriously if they can't reign in the budgets and create games that are profitable then that's their fault. If AAA games of today can't live in the climate that exists, they don't deserve to.

[Astargatis]

Edge source anyone...?
http://i41.tinypic.com/2pt4...

[Why o why]

That gif (jif) doesn't surprise me one bit even though sony also advertises in that section. I've always thought that edge were bias on multiple fronts. Ar well, I guess I'm wearing a tin foil hat again right because sonys there too right....lol

[NextGen24Gamer]

It's funny because its all common sense to me. People/consumers want want want but some are too cheap to pay for what they want. When you buy a game, you don't own the content. You can't make copies of it. As consumers we have been spoiled. PCs have had this tech for years and now consoles have the tech and I'm glad they are finally implementing it. It should drive cost of new games down and developer can get paid for their work instead of GameStop reselling it like they own it over and over again. One copy of a game gets sold to one consumer and then that consumer sells it to GameStop for pennies on the dollar and then GameStop sells it close to full price to a new consumer and the dev receives none of it. God loving people got to see the wrong in that. Common sense stuff.

People complain about everything. I just believe in right and wrong.

[BlackTar187]

please explain why its our job as consumers to fix a poor business model?

[NextGen24Gamer]

It's not the consumers job. It's e developers and publishers and console makers job. And guess what? They are finally doing it. Thank goodness. Finally got it right for consoles. Gamers will benefit with games that coat less.

[ShwankyShpanky]

I'd love to see how these ridiculous arguments would have played out sixty years ago.

Hasbro statement: "When you buy the game Clue, you are buying a license to use the product. The paper/cardboard in the box is only a delivery medium for the IP that is printed on the medium, to which Hasbro retains all rights of resale. By selling/purchasing a used copy of Clue, you are taking money that rightly belongs to Hasbro developers and placing it in the hands of used toy resellers."

[clonerz]

Whoa Is Me Mr Elite I'm so sorry forgive me should I kiss your Boot now yeah hmm... Not gonna happen bottom line is if I buy something I should be allowed to do with it as I please example lend it to a friend use it on more than one console in my house sell it to whomever I want to (Mgoo said it all)

[NextGen24Gamer]

Mrmagoo and anyone else who doesn't understand.

If what u say is true and is the law. Why can't you do all that with computer games? Lol

You sound like a spoiled baby who is having your binky snatched away and you believe you have a right to it. Guess what? You have grown up...I think...and you have managed without it. Lol...or maybe you still need it with all the whining you are doing.

Fact is...the system is broken as is...we the consumer have been taking advantage of the broken system and now consoles are catching up to what pcs have been doing for ever.

Ms has tweaked and perfected the pc game model by allowing you to install your game on 10 different game systems.

By allowing you to trade game in

By allowing you to let someone borrow it once

By allowing you to play it on any system you want as your games follow you

On the pc there are games you can't play without an Internet connection. It's the way of the future. You can't play a console without electricity.

You can tether Internet from your cell phone once a day and it only takes kilobytes to check in.

Sony clearly went he way of the caveman by keeping the same model for the next gen. It def makes last gen gamers happy. Keeps the binky in your mouth just a little longer. But it is coming out sooner or later. Grow up

[MysticStrummer]

I don't know about other people's towns, but GameStop has closed 2/3 of the stores near me. Their business practices and price gouging was already starting to hurt them. There are simply better and cheaper ways to get used games, and GameStop was going to have to change their ways if they wanted to stay in business. You believe in right and wrong? Punishing consumers for GameStop's business practices is wrong.

Common sense stuff indeed.

If you think game prices will come down because of this, you're fooling yourself.

[shutUpAndTakeMyMoney]

He Must be working on a new xbox exclusive.

**rolles eyes**

[Relientk77]

Oh I wouldn't be surprised at all

[Rhaigun]

Arguments like this from Cliffy B piss me off. Hollywood would be over the moon if they could get away with $60 movie tickets. And their budgets are still millions of dollars higher.

If I go to the theater and pay $10 to see a movie, then also buy said movie for $20 on bluray, its still $30 cheaper.

[Gamer1982]

Exactly they spend a LOT more developing films too. Gamer developing done well makes millions for developers. They lose money not because of used games but because of being badly managed. Movies you could argue are bought by more than games but they are 1/4 of the price so that easily makes up for the difference. Te reason games don't sell like movies is the price and they talk about increasing them every generation. They are going in the wrong direction and eventually consumers will stop buying..

[Blachek]

I agree with Cliffy B in relationship to the construction of price points for console games. Reading this site, it is ridiculous how people flock to Sony because they aren't trying to right the ship... where as Microsoft is. How else do people think they can correct this pricing structure?

MS has shown they are looking to the future, while Sony is playing Loss-Leader hoping that this fundamental ideology they both have leads to MS losing sales. If Sony doesn't implement a new structure this gen, you had better believe they will next.

Like Cliffy B said in this article, and I have in the past... Sony is riding this MS Hate Train knowing full well they will follow suit at some point. They are just waiting until people are tired of complaining about the direction the industry is headed.

[THamm]

Lower the price of the COMPLETE games, not only would you sell more, also we wouldn't care about used games

[LAZL0-Panaflex]

He's an Xbox fan boy scrub. If $60 games were crumbling he wouldn't have a Lamborghini and that wife being the treasure troll/teletubby he is.

PS gears 3 campaign was dogshit.

[Mithan]

Or maybe he is smarter than most of you dumb fucks who post on the internet and knows the realities of a business case.

[StuffofLegend]

Agreed. The game economy was built on non drm terms, I couldn't possibly believe that because one company tanks on the opposing terms that its the end of gaming. Worst case scenario, video games get a revolution and a huge indie surge.

[Christopher]

If you can't have this model, then why are publishers walking away with hundreds of millions and even billions in profits each year?

Also, if this model is broken, then why are PC games coming out cheaper and have a much higher piracy rate... but are still going strong?

[tiffac008]

Exactly, I think creating the right expectations will lead to better development cost.

Its the industry that is over budgeting the game production due to unreasonable expectations and only heaven knows where they are actually investing and losing their money at.

I mean look at Square Enix, they made millions on Tomb Raider, Hitman and Sleeping Dogs and yet they come out and say they didn't make money?

Something is wrong here and the consumer is being used as a scapegoat.

[rainslacker]

I wish I could bubble you up cg.

Edit:BTW the answer to your question is because they are already finding ways to monetize games more. DLC, MT, etc. Cliffy says something to that effect, and he's not wrong, but it seems like the solution is there. It's not ideal for the gamer, and some companies abuse it, but it's a fair compromise in many cases, as it's completely optional on the user side of things.

I'd personally be very interested to see these numbers he speaks of. After all this talk, he finally mentions that he has numbers, so I say transparency is key if he wants us to bite.

[Rubberlegs]

PC games are cheaper because its all digital now. You can get a new released game on the PC day one going digital for just about half off the price. Boxed versions your always going to be paying the retail price for a new release.

[lilbrat23]

He supports it because developers are getting greedy. Now if you are going to charge me to trade my game in you better drop those games to $30

[Christopher]

Not developers. The people who lead the development companies and get money back from the games. Majority of developers make a salary and that's it.

[Muffins1223]

GOD DAMN IT HE HAS BEEN GINGERFIED

[rainslacker]

Agreed. It's one thing to say what he does, but I've said many times before...Show us those numbers. Show us how the used game market affects bottom lines. Show us and maybe we'd be willing to compromise.

[t0mmyb0y]

I work with a guy like him :)

[wellard]

Yup, he is desperate for hate. I couldnt read the article properly though, all i got from it was, "Im a tool, greed greed greed, gamers are tossers, F&^£ them, im a tool, tool tool tool. Give me more money, im a tool"

[TheTwelve]

I love this! Because I want everyone to see how wrong Microsoft is this gen. So that this crap never happens again in this industry.

12

[Cueil]

he's just trolling for lolz

[Fairchild Channel F]

Of course he agrees and supports DRM. He and his wife need gas money for their Lamborghini's.

[KRUSSIDULL]

Lame excuse to use DRM to make more money. Publishers need more money all the time to create higher quality games so they ask for more money so they can compete with other high quality games.
But they don't seem to wanna make game development cheaper because the competition is to high.
In the end consumers may not be able buy new games because they weren't able to sell the used games.
Not to mention DRM may hurt other games than are not most have games because consumer only have afford to buy the most have titles.

[otherZinc]

There will be a backlash waiting for SONY. SONY started this some time ago then pulled the string at the end. Great for consumers, not good for devs where their games sell less than 1mil 1st 8 weeks.

[NVIDIAGeek]

Yea, just like his career.

[nosferatuzodd]

People don't really get it this is a nazi move by Microsoft
Look I'm a Sony fan but I'm not that blind if Sony did this crap I would stay away from them has well.

Forget about ps4 buy a PC instead or wii u just don't sopport this crap from Microsoft
remember this is bigger than ps4 vs Xbox this is about freedom if Microsoft succeeds then
Kiss you're asss goodbye with owning you're own game

[Tyre]

@nosferatuzodd Well said. bubble for you!

[FamilyGuy]

This guy is an idiot, not all games have to be AAA, they can be made at high-decent quality with lower budgets and still be very profitable. Heavy Rain is a good example of this and a few indie games have raked in cash this gen: Super Stardust guys, Journey devs, Minecraft makers, Castle Crashers creators, and more.

Renting and used games are NOT the problem here. Games sell based on their perceived quality and worth. No matter how big the budget spent, a game has to look like it's worth the cost. Visual quality, replay value, content, etc.

[Consoldtobots]

MS and their minions are COMPLETELY talking out of their behinds on this one. the biggest problem with the used game market was the publishers bearing the brunt of second and third dips of their multiplayer service from people who paid money for a used game to a third party like gamestop. EA fixed that problem with their $10 online fee for previously used titles. What this amounts to is GREEEEEEEED from MS and those in the industry who think like they do. In other words they feel the cost of entry to any one of their games is $60 for EVERYONE. I say good luck to them with that attitude let us know how it works out for ya.

[jcnba28]

For telling the truth? It's like you don't want to face reality.

[Moonman]

that hair..... ;/

[Mr_Nuts]

God it's Carrot Top's younger brother

[Majin-vegeta]

He reminds me of Dr.evils son Scotty xD.

[Relientk77]

haha, at both ^

[TongkatAli]

ROFL!

[PirateThom]

Maybe if games weren't $60, more people would buy new. That's why it's crumbling.

[ShwankyShpanky]

"You cannot have game and MARKETING BUDGETS this high..."

Hmmmmmm..... then don't?

[Qrphe]

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

$10 million dollar budget

http://www.gamespot.com/new...

Metro The Last Light made with 10% of the typical AAA budget

Simple answer for Cliffy, cut game budgets (marketing specially). Publishers are the true cancer here, hopefully self-publishing brings everything into balance.

[Viper7]

Exactly, the blockbuster business model is broken to begin with and should be abandoned as soon as possible.

There are plenty of indies, doing AAA-quality stuff with budgets fraction of what AAA-developers.

Sure their games might be missing 30 minute cut-scenes, hollywood voice acting and they focus heavily on gameplay.. wait a minute, why do I even play AAA-games anymore?

[ShaunCameron]

Eh. The $60 price is nothing. The real problem is the high costs just to make the game itself. Some of the most successful games this generation were made with relatively low budgets. The Call Of Duty franchise, any Wii game, etcetera.

@ Viper7

Exactly.

[jc48573]

wait, something doesn't quite makes sense. He is saying that MS is the savior? preventing industry from loosing money because of used games? Then what was all that BS about games getting cheaper to develop now?

Edit: Even Ubisoft believes the importance of used games, so I don't know why Cliff is bringing up Assassin's Creed as an example of how much games cost to make when you have thousands of dev working on it.

[Relientk77]

That's nice. PS4 and Wii U, No restrictions ftw. Microsoft go home, your drunk.

[sourav93]

This sums it up pretty well: http://www.youtube.com/watc...

[TrendyGamers]

I don't think it's crumbling, but it is declining, especially when games go on sale to $40 2 weeks - month after launch.

[Foxgod]

The XB1 doesnt block used games, and cliffy it totally right here.

[Why o why]

Paid by the hour or by the comment....smh

Please explain how used games aren't blocked if I've not got net for example. If I cant lend a game, according to your employers, what word should I use mr fox

[ShwankyShpanky]

So if I sell a game I'm finished with on Ebay, and then that buyer sells it on Ebay when they're done with it, their buyer will be able to pop it into the Xbone and play it?

If the answer is anything but "yes," I believe that would pretty clearly fall under the definition of "blocking used games."

[InTheLab]

According to Foxgod, that would be blocking used used games.../sarcasm

[MRMagoo123]

you are in a world of your own foxgod i swear you are either just saying this stupid sh!t to get a rise out of ppl or you are one stubbie short of a six pack.

[NateCole]

Yeah we feel sorry for you for not affording 3 sports cars instead of the two you have.

Quite the drama queen.

[MrSwankSinatra]

"Disc Based Day one $60 Model is Crumbling" Gee i wonder why??? since a lot of games that come out are even worth 60 dollars, hell games like asura's wrath that are bare bones in content came out at 60 dollars. if these publishers started pricing games accordingly you might have a lot more people buying new games rather than used. this is problem with these industry people they have no damn clue about business with their one track minds.

[sway_z]

You'd expect him to say this since he falls within the category that stands to gain from DRM/Used Game fees.

No big surprise there....

[Munnkyman]

He looks like a douche bag and sounds like one to so don't pay attention

[brianunfried]

That may be true, but you need to at least give people a choice between physical and digital media.

[1nsomniac]

Bullshit!

Games are getting easier therefore cheaper to develop, thanks to the better architecture & better tools. The only thing financially that is costing them more is the motion capture acting. As we see with most none "commercially financially oriented company's" - Naughty Dog the use of none AAA film stars instead of EA/Activision who spend big bucks on someone famous to do a voice.

A lot of developers have come out after the speculation of the new gen bringing higher new gen prices, confirming this.

[Unicron]

"Games are getting easier therefore cheaper to develop"

Not exactly, as you get into in the rest of your post. Consumers are mostly expecting bigger and bigger things from their AAA titles - higher production values, better soundtracks and voice acting, more intelligent AI, and of course better visuals. That all costs money, time, and manpower. Yes, you can do more with less now - but people still want even more than that!

[1nsomniac]

Like other developers have confirmed, there is already far superior stock tools that provide all that already without the need for any tweaking in some cases, the only thing I see costing more is as you say the acting side of it but as other developers have shown you don't need to spend massive amounts of money on famous actors when you can get the same if not more devoted from lesser known far cheaper actors.

Either way realistically I cant see his argument standing. I didn't see anything wrong with the online pass method but completely blocking the ability for the customer to sell something they bought is ridiculous.

[webeblazing]

i wonder why pc have been doing these so called things so long at cheaper price. production value and soundtrack is subjective. bastion has amazing soundtrack i think you mean sound quality like 5.1 and 7.1 soundsound than thats on pc even the sims 3 have 5.1 but some games dont tho.

[maniacmayhem]

I disagree Unicron, game development can be easier if that company has the right tools and budgets correctly. Most of these big devs or publishers blow out their budgets completely by hiring close to 600 people for one game over a three year period.

That to me is INSANE. I remember an article about RES 6 and how it was spread across maybe 3 or 4 studios and over 700 staff or something close. That is insane considering the game was average and that the previous RE's were 10x better.

These companies need to learn how to budget and prioritize and stop paying these ridiculous amounts of money to these supposed rock star producers, engineers and pm's.

[Unicron]

Maniac, I totally agree! It's all about good planning, design, and sticking to your production schedule. We shouldn't be shaming people that use Unreal for example, as it helps get your game up and running that much faster.

Bloat is one thing (AC3, RE6), but the general trend is still people want bigger games, more spectacle, and a more polished and refined experience. Eventually something has to give though when it all comes down to it, since no team has unlimited time, money, and skill to spend.

[hiredhelp]

Finally some people starting to see fluffy B the way i did 2 years ago In MS pocket well you can stick your lips to MS BUTT all you like you lost my cred ages ago. Sorry thats how i feel

[OrangePowerz]

I never liked the guy.

[hiredhelp]

Did i say fluffy 😶 i meant Cliffy

[MRMagoo123]

awwwww but i had a pic of a fluffy bee in my head when you said that awwwww fluffy bees they are sooo cute

[hiredhelp]

lol

[OrangePowerz]

Given that trade ins are often used to be able to afford new games the market would loose more money without used games compared to what is lost when people buy used games.

[BlackTar187]

Since im a father now almost all my games are bought with trade ins.

[LAZL0-Panaflex]

Craigslist would get u more bang for your buck.

[04soldier]

or craiglist could get more buck(shotgun shells) in your butt

[MRMagoo123]

I have never heard one positive thing from anyone using craigs list , its all been bad stuff

[Godmars290]

And still there's no recognition that used, rental and lent games promote game sales. That cutting off access to that sub-market does not automatically equal increased sales.

[grassyknoll]

MS's DRM isn't gonna work if no one buys the console because of it. Fool.

[WalterWJR]

If cliffy B - B stands for bull

[Summons75]

You quit, go home cliffy no one liked, likes or will ever like you.

[from the beach]

He's right. And if you disagree because he's associated with MS, here's something David Jaffe tweeted earlier:

"For people complaining about the WHOPPING 5 bucks/month fee required for PS+/Online gaming, just tell yourself the console costs $460&comes with a free game out the game (Driveclub) like old school console pack ins + tons of other free games in the following months. I mean,FUCKING SHEESH people, you do realize that shit costs money to make and this is a business as well as an art/entertainment, right? The way some of these online gamers are responding to the news,it's like they are only happy if they get amazing shit for free;am I missing sumthin?"

[Valkyre]

He is wrong and your quote from Jaffe is completely UNRELATED to DRM which is the discussion here.

apples - oranges.

Now go and pre order your xbox one, you deserve each other.

[from the beach]

Are you guys seriously unable to make the link?

Both are saying "support the games industry, PLEASE".

[OrangePowerz]

Jaffe doesn't say anything about used games here. He talks about online and that it costs money to have servers running.

[Mikelarry]

@ organepowerz you know how trolls work. seeing something and trying to twist it to make sense to what he believes in. ignore the troll

[XabiDaChosenOne]

You didn't even read the quote did you? If your going to be a consumer supporting anti consumer policies at least read the material that is supposedly backing your arguement smdh....

[BlackTar187]

Support the game industry okay...........

Nowhere does he say DRM is good for anyone but the developer. and a developer is nothing with out the consumer.

Make the link ? Lol From the beach how much do you get paid per post?

[maniacmayhem]

@The Beach

I understand what you are trying to do but the truth is that quote is somewhat unrelated to the DRM topic.
Jaffe is trying to justify Sony's mandatory PS+ online fee but not used games or the blocking of used games.

[DEEBO]

yeah i got burn a few times buying new then the games go on sale two to three weeks later.but i also traded in some games to get new ones without having to pay a dime.but the cards have been delt,sony&nintendo went one way MS went the other.may the best man win.cliffy's love for ms makes him speak on the situation even if he's not making games for them.loyal to the end,i can't hate on that.MS has been taking a pounding since may.now the tables have turn and sony is getting the love and that's hard for some people to handle.

[ErcsYou]

"The visual fidelity and feature sets we expect from games now come with sky high costs. Assasins Creed games are made by thousands of devs."

What a liar. Most games are built with the visual fidelity and feature sets and down graded for current gen hardware. Costs should go down next gen because "porting games" should be much easier than this generation.

Assasins Creed wouldnt require thousands of developers if they didnt shove one down our throat every year.

[YNWA96]

Your very smart and informative..... How long did it take you to search the net and find that crap?

[rainslacker]

Here's a fun challenge for everyone.

Grab a notebook and pencil. Make two columns. Mark one dev team, the other production team. Go grab your favorite, high quality, AAA game. Throw it into the console, then watch the credits.

When you see programmers, artists, QA's, team leads, etc, make a mark in the dev team column.

When you see production assistant, producer, non-development directors, marketing, associate producers, corporate sounding titles, etc, make a mark in the production team column.

Be sure to omit any special thanks people near the bottom. You can also omit voice actors/motion actors, as they're just kind of necessary depending on the game.

Now add up both columns, and see which one is 2-3 times larger.

Now, go and do the same for a well produced indie game. Add up the columns and note the difference. For extra credit, you can mark how many people have more than one job on these titles too. You'd be surprised at the results.

[MoonConquistador]

I love games and all that but this sounds worse than an angry birds championship. Can't you just post results since you've been playing this for a while.

If its all the same, I'd much rather borrow your copy of Forza 5 when you get it.

Oh wait, I can't. I'll ask MS if that's ok first

[rainslacker]

For a $10 fee I'll post the results.:P

[trouble_bubble]

omfg, the guy whose most disappointing game of 2011 was Uncharted 3 says DRM is good, don't buy used, feel sorry for big budget games like AC that need mo' money, and that Sony is playing all of us. Wotta shouche, ie shill-douche

[V0LT]

I can't help but wonder how people that defend this DRM thing would feel if every corporation decided to do the same thing and yank money from you when you resold a product. Why should "gaming" be subject to the developers raking in profit a second time over any other company?

https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW50...

[Tyre]

@ylwzx3 Well said! bubble for you! Great gif! LMAO

[V0LT]

Here is the real movie clip!

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

[ajax17]

You should have used this picture:
http://i.qkme.me/3sbdim.jpg

[Nodoze]

Only someone who drives a lime green Lamborghini would say that
$60 games are not working. He wants another Lamborghini.

License plate reads Douchebag

Whoops he already has two Lamborghinis.
http://venturebeat.com/2013...

Cry more about how poor developers are plz

[YNWA96]

Do not blame the guy for being good at what he does..... You should spend less time crying and do more in real world.....

[tarbis]

So, why are you here?

[rainslacker]

To be fair, he has worked on some extremely popular, high selling titles. Most dev's don't rake in nearly as much cash.

But otherwise I agree with your point. Until they show me proof that used games hurt the industry, I will keep my rights. Thank you.

[Williamson]

I really do dislike this guy.

[Akira2020]

I'm glad he's loosing his hair.

[Sm00thNinja]

Lol you people are truly delirious. Do you really think the current used game model is here to stay?

[Rusty515]

Uh...yes

[BABY-JEDI]

I think it's going to be really interesting to see how the sales models shape up after a few months of the next gen consoles release. The gamers (all of us) will let you know. Personally, MS stance here means I will not get their next Xbox. Hence, they have lost a sale already. Just want to add, I have an Xbox, PS3 & a Wii.
PS4 already pre-ordered. ; )

[hkgamer]

Dont think much will change because of this used games policy apart from bringing in a little bit more money to publishers and MS and a little less to retailers.

Retailers will push for sony sales a little more and sony PS4 multiplats will probably sell around 10-15% more like how 360 sells 10-15% more than PS3. However, the loss in sales will be recuperated by MS used games policy.

Sony will follow with MS used games policy next gen(if there is a next gen).

[BABY-JEDI]

@ hkgamer, I think your missing my point. Many people who have favoured the Xbox systems really feel badly let down by MS stance to the point of switching to Sony.

[wishingW3L]

let's talk again 10 years down the road. ;)

[fatstarr]

hes right in some points

[Mikelarry]

cliff all this energy commenting why not concentrate that energy to creating another good game

[wishingW3L]

he retired after GoeW 3.

[GraveLord]

Sounds like something a Microsoft fanboy would say. Seriously, can he not look at this from a middle-class gamers point of view? We're fucking lucky to even get a next-gen console at launch.

Most of us aren't rich. Gaming is an expensive hobby.

[XabiDaChosenOne]

It's funny to me how publishers like this douche complain saying "oh no, used games it hurts so bad that I can't double dip" yet they are the same devs that make 5 hour long campaigns, releasing broken products at launch and then wonder why the used game market is thriving so much. The Gaul of morons like this guy asking to double dip when they release products like the Gears of War 2 multiplayer.

[Imalwaysright]

If its crumbling then publishers have to fix it but not at our expense by taking OUR rights as consumers. Its not our fault that this industry's business model is broken and its not up to us to fix your shit.

"Assasins Creed games are made by thousands of devs." No shit Sherlock. No one is forcing Ubisoft to milk the franchise by releasing one EVERY YEAR. Again, fix your goddamn business model even though I'm 100% that AC games are profitable or else they wouln't milk it the way they do.

"If you can afford high speed internet and you can’t get it where you live direct your rage at who is responsible for pipe blocking you." To me its not about having access to an internet connection, to me is about having the freedom to do whathever the hell I want with my property. I don't want to ask permission to use something that I buy with my money.

As for Sony if they're lying to us, then we simply sue them for false advertisement.

[jut420]

Make better games Cliff, you sound like a baby cuz no one wants to deal with all these restrictions so you can have your way

[YNWA96]

He is right. Its really you working 40 hours a week and everyone else spending your money. You would not like that. Why should Cliffy, or any developer see there hard work all go to gamestop or somewhere else. Thats the bottom line. We had it good for a long time, but its time to move on..... I imagine a lot of people here bitching are the kind who download PC games, jailbreak ipads and so on.... Cheap people....for the record I have owned nearly every console since Atari 2600, even computers like spectrum 48k and all the way up to amiga 1200 and even cd32.... Always bought games new.... Saved for or or waited till I could afford it.....

[ShwankyShpanky]

"I imagine a lot of people here..."

http://catmacros.files.word...

[Sm00thNinja]

That's true gaming is a very expensive hobby! Sony cares about as much about you're wallet as Microsoft does. A lot of you have this idea that game companies care about you and to those people I say, " You sir are fuckin stupid" the current used game model will not be here forever regardless of what rights you or I may feel are infringed

[rainslacker]

And yet...it seems that Sony's model is going to make more money because people will actually buy it. Funny how that works.

[AutoCad]

People will always be scared of the future.

[Imalwaysright]

Yeah a future that benefits multi billion $ companies and gives the shaft to consumers is scary. The thing you're forgeting is that we, consumers, have the power to crush even the richest of companies so lets see who dictates the future. US or MS.

[windblowsagain]

Problem is this.

Budgets have gotten too big, many games to buy @ $60 and alot of the time some of these games are not worth the money.

You might argue, but Sp games should be cheaper if that's all they offer. Yes i know there are many great sp games. But mp games are what cost money to Run, server wise and keep you coming back for more.

Or

Split MP/SP. $30/$30. If you only want a certain portion. Some peeps only want sp and some only mp.

I don't think COD is bought for SP. But uncharted is.

[Sm00thNinja]

Microsoft ........does not .... care about black people

[iliimaster]

so when i buy a ps4 multiplat game its mine and when i buy an xbox game its not mine?

[guiltl3ss]

If the model is crumbling, then why is it still here? If it didn't work then it obviously would die on its own. Moving to digital only doesn't really solve the issue of games costing too much money to make. Maybe if they reduced publishing costs, then it wouldn't be so bad...but publishing in games is the biggest racket in the industry so that won't happen.

[jmac53]

Cliffy B has become the Daivid Jaffe of Xbox. Spouting bulls**t, hoping someone thinks he is still relevant.

[SEAN1617]

David Jaffe is respectable unlike this A$$HA7!

[wishingW3L]

Jaffe shares exactly the same views as CliffyB you know. Just the other day he was arguing with some NeoGaf users about this same issue. Jaffe supports what M$ are doing with the XB1 believe it or not.

[ThatsGaming]

Do the math people... $100,000,000 to make a AAA game.

You need to sell 1.67 million games at $60 just to break even. Also that $100,000,000 doesn't give you marketing, or retail discs, or promotions... It only makes the game...

In reality the average selling price for a game through its life is probably more like $40 on average... ($60 for the first few months, then it starts to reduce in price to about the $20 mark). That means you would have to sell 2.5 million copies to break even without marketing...

A solid marketing and promotions campaign is at least $100,000,000 around the world. And lets take off $3 for packaging and printing of discs...

So, assuming the average sell price of a game new in its lifetime is $40 - $3 for packaging brings it to $37 and to build the game and market it is $200,000,000.

That puts you at about 5.4 million copies sold to break even.

Games do sell that much. But it is not the norm. It is the exception.

Gamers need to open their eyes. The costs are there and nobody is making a ton of cash in the games industry. The model has to change to remain viable.

I'm not saying MS has solved the problem, or Cliffy B is brilliant... What I am saying is that people need to understand the uphill battle that every studio, publisher, and console vendor faces and not just shrug it off as being "anti-consumer", "anti-gamer", "pro-studio", "pro-publisher", or "pro-console vendor".

Gamers can ignore or realize this industry is on the brink of collapse.

[plmkoh]

`Do the math people... $100,000,000 to make a AAA game. `

The maths is simple: stop making crap games that put the money in all the wrong reasons and end up being crap, like 99% of those CoD clones.

Uncharted 2 had a budget of $20mil, I very much doubt it had a marketing budget of $80mil. Yet that game was very much a benchmark for 4 years post it`s launch, and still continues to be enjoyable today.

I don`t think the problem is so much games are becoming more expensive, but rather there are too much studios/devs/productions today that has diluted the talent, classic example is Medal of Honor (2011) what was the point of that when EA has BF3/Bad Company. All EA games ended up doing was competing against themselves, competed on market that is only so big and competed for the same type of gamer for a given calender release month. What can you blame for poor sales on that franchise, used games? Pirating? More like incompetence.

It`s time publishers/investors start getting smarter not more frugal.

[tarbis]

Do this math. This guy have a Lamborghini while you don't.

[ThatsGaming]

What makes you think I don't?

[brich233]

Used games is killing the industry, remember when you bought a used game, beat it, and returned it to gamestop? Well Someone Else continued the pattern. And therefore 1 Copy was sold with the money of the sale going to the publisher. And who knows how many diffrent owners possibly cycled the same game, 5 too 10? Thats 5 too 10 people that played the game and the publisher never saw the money. Now then thiers game rental services. How much more money the publisher didnt see in that service? Its just too much. And for them its a buisness and they are trying to maximize profit for themselves, not Gamestop. How many companys have been closed recently in the game industry? Its most likely due to used game sales and rental services.

[V0LT]

Place this situation on any other regular company. How
about Home Depot or the manufacturer not getting a portion of that sale from when you resold a lawn mower you bought there to someone else........ Just because its gaming doesn't make it ok to do this.

[b-real]

a) A Lawn Mower does not cost $1,000,000,00 to design and manufacturer. Its created by small teams with a substantially smaller budget.

b) People don't use a lawn mower for a week and then have no need for it. When its brand new (the time that it should move the most untis) there are not instantly cheaper second hand models of the exact same model readily available.

c) Lawn Mowers wear - second hand ones are noticeably not as good as brand new ones. Granted, a CD can scratch - but vast majority will run perfectly, making it as good as a new one. There is no difference in a second/third/fourth hand game than a brand new one. This devalues purchasing a game brand new,

[SprigganN4G]

Dont you DARE to make a comeback, stay where you are, we're just FINE.

[wishingW3L]

is this for real? Trolololol XD

[DA_PRGamer]

Cliff Bleszinski Net Worth is $15 Million so he needs to shut up and just get payed a lil less

[Kevlar009]

The numbers don't work? Well they have for the past 30+ years

[SEAN1617]

Cliffy your are right. I mean the "writing budget" for gears of war's story alone must have cost millions (NOT)..... and the drastic innovative changes you made from game to game must have cost likewise (NOT).... you are a delicate genius, a man hiding in a womans body, who came up with Kill Switch- I mean Gears of war all by yourself, you should keep your games for yourself because no one wants to play with you.

[ArtificiallyYours]

Is it me or are the physics in Gears of War an ugly mess (overall decent game)? I feel like he's intentionally overrating his own work.

Note: My own 2 Cents.

[BizDaWolf]

It must be working because he just bought myself "ANOTHER" Ferrari this dude is flat out greedy.

[PSjesus]

David Jaffe said the same thing years ago unfortunately if you want to block used games,make a downloadable copy cheaper

[ArtificiallyYours]

He's an angsty teen in the Gaming Industry, barely knows what the fuck he really needs or wants.

[airgangstarr]

video games consoles have been around for over 30 years an never have any of them blocked used games till now so how in the hell has the industry made it 30 plus years if it doesnt work ? they act like were idiots

[Soc5]

Right, that's why when the new Call of duty or Halo or Gears of war comes out they brag about how much it made and how Call of duty was the biggest opening for any media ever. I'm sure they are all in the poor house, hey cliffy maybe you're pissed because gears of war turned to shit and people lost interest

[Soc5]

The music industry said the same thing with all the artists whining about it from their mansions

[dcbronco]

Sounds like a guy that has actually help run a game developer. People will eventually get what they want. But they won't like it.

[Game-o-holic]

...very dumb argument. Piracy is killing the industry, not used games. Eventually there won't be used games due to digital downloads, but to hold a traditional copy in my hands and be told I can't resell it is horse-shit. Suck on that.

[Kidmyst]

So is Cliffy making his games digital only and dropping the price to $50.00? Nah I doubt it! So what about retailers dropping the prices to $40.00? I have waited and bought games I didn't feel I wanted to spend 60 on or why pay $60.00 if it's gonna sit while I finish another game up. Will Cliffy not ever discount his games? The used market is really no difference than anything else, used movies, cars, music, clothes, tools, furniture, etc. I will always buy physical when given a choice.

[ZitterZap]

Shut up and find better motorization model.

Also stop paying Hollywood actors to do voice acting.

Video gaming is one of the fastest growing entertainment field and If you are not able to make money in a growing market that is YOUR FAULT.
Grow some brains.

[jonli1]

I think if people just be quiet an analyze what hes saying it does make sense. I think in the neat future sony is gonna creep up with those same policy when we at least expected remember one article sony was the first to purchase a software to prevent used games. I dont like it but microsost came out first with it and we agreed that it sucks. In my opinion we the gamer are really huritng the game industry i know people are gonna talk crap for what im saying but really down the line it will make sense just think about it .

[Gameratheart]

Microsoft is toast. Used: no! No Internet connection: no! They are the company of no.

[DevilishSix]

Cliffy isn't part of the game industry at present time he is unemployed. So nothing to see here as his opinions are as relevant as you or me posting in this comment section. So, WTH are people still giving this guy the time of day.

[DEEBO]

people talk with their wallets.if you think i'm going to give you my hard earn money for some buggy,five hour,no replay value game,then on top of that you want to tell what i can and can't not do with it.lol nobody is going for that.you want more sales,make better games.simple as that.and don't try to BS about gaming budget when you have tools and templates from gears you can use to cut the cost in half.madden does it every year,hell alot of games do. acting like they are changing game engines every time they do sequel to game.copy paste,copy paste.

[horndog]

Thats why they have reviews and free demos so if you dont like the game you dont have to buy that buggy game that you think are being forced to buy. We as consumers have the right to inform ourselves before we buy something. Its what most people do when buying something that isnt cheap. Try it next time. Inform yourself instead of sounding like the idiot who doesnt read reviews and just buys with instincts.

[DEEBO]

lol not every game comes with a demo jackass,and i do read reviews.how about
this.if use games are so bad then why didn't the x1 just go digital download like the psp go?no disc,no preowned games right.the system needs to be online to work anyway right? greed is all this about but you're too dumb to see it.and FYI all i been doing is reading previews on that shitty system you're trying to defend.the word is out,MS policy BS and i can't wait until it bites them in their ass.

[horndog]

It makes sense to me. If devs work hard and put a crap load of money into their projects then they should be rewarded with sales. When you go to a movie you dont give the ticket after the show to your buddy so they can go see the same show do you? Movies would never make money and producers wouldnt bother making big budget films because the same ticket would get passed around or sold for cheaper. I dont have a problem paying for a game that I think its worth my time and if you put yourself in the shoes of the devs you would want to maximize on your dues. I see nothing wrong with the restrictions just the steep price. Some so called gamer fans are just chooches on welfare living in moms basement.

[taijutsu363]

The one constant defense of MS fanboys for the DRM "Well thats good now the companies/developers are going to make money" Like I thought the developers and such made games so the consumer could go out and enjoy em and then let those consumers friends enjoy it as well! Then they would get more recognition I didnt know they got in this business for $$$$!?

[DEEBO]

now x1 is the upper-class console right,lol this guy is a joke.who cares about preown sales? that money not going in my pocket.but if i buy dvd from a walmart and couple my friends want to borrow it,i have to ask the movie studio permission first?fuck that! you're giving up you're rights for what? brand loyalty.i choose freedom instead.

[Orionsangel]

The douche defending the douche.

[Garbanjo001]

Whatever happened to locked disks that can't be read without proper firmwares? All that has to be done is lock the f**king disk, put a MS or Sony logo on it, have the firmware read the damn disk and authenticate the game (like it does anyway when it's for Sony/MS consoles) and that's that? Create a security measure that unlocks the disk in use, burn the disk to hard drive, keep the disk at home (just in case) and do what you want with the digital form of the game. It's not like it's a bad thing sharing titles. . . .

MS basically said "we don't care if you trade, but do it so we can see what the hell you are doing with (said) game." WHICH IS THE SAME F**KING THING AS SHARING THE GAME!!! Only now it's restricted. So . . . MS argument is unproven right? Did I find a loophole here or am I just really tired from blogging. . .

[DJMarty]

Cliffy B Blind

No wonder when he's got his head stuck up Microsofts arse.

Talk about a arse licking

[grmbl]

Used games are here to stay as long as we have a disc based system.
Look at Steam, once you buy a game you can't go selling it to
somebody else. (Or you'd have to sell your account...)

[EffectO]

I agree that disc based day one $60 model is done,even with trade ins.Last few years strongly show that,pool of people willing to pay $60 for a game is draining quickly.

Compare this gen and next gen,what exactly is better?Answer is nothing,in fact things are even worse since Sony is now charging for online access.Games will be more expensive too,just wait and see.

Industry solution is,squeeze more cash from existing consumers...things like that never end well

[badvlad]

human carrot

[hazelamy]

oh look, it's everybody favourite talking rectum.

[TOSgamer]

Rich guy telling people to deal with it. How original. And yes Gears of War made him quite wealthy.

[wheresmymonkey]

The problem here isn't with the Xbox one blocking used games, because it doesn't. The problem is with it dicating to you what you can do with software you bought and paid for in an incredibly draconian manner.

It attempts control the used market, cuts out indie game stores, stops you selling your own games on ebay, doesnt allow for for people to freely borrow or exchange games. In short its a nightmare.

Its so incredibly short sighted its insane. The sales of game series grow because x mount of people buy the first game. love it, lend it to their friends who didn't care enough to buy it and then when the sequel drops they both buy a copy. thus the sales grow exponentially.

The biggesst crime however is that all the hardwork of the guys that made the games and all the culture that goes with it will be blinked out of existance when MS turn the servers off.

[MikeyDucati1]

lol that picture makes Cliffy look like he has too much fun playing in snow.

[Smoey]

If I resell my car does the manufacturer get anything? no because they have already been paid for that product.

If I resell my CD does the artist get anything? no because they have already been paid for that product.

If I resell my DVD/Blu-Rays do the film creators get anything? no because they have already been paid for that product.

Why should games be any different?

[Alos88]

Damage control, plain and simple.

[Dannycr]

They should focus on fighting against piracy, not screwing up the people who is buying their products legit.

If you want more money, go multiplatform then.

[RealtorMDandDC]

This is the biggest bunch of crap ever. It's okay to purchase a used everything else but not a game. Purchasing a use car don't hurt the car manufacturer? A used cell phone don't hurt the maker. Same goes for a a pair of used speakers, stereo and etc.

That's why craigslist and the classified exists....because of a "USED" market.

The USED GAME MARKET is not hurting the publishers it's the quality of games and the arrogance. Same goes for Hollywood, provide quality and Superior entertainment mediums and people would support you.

The Game Makers need to take a long deep look at the industry and themselves before they want to killoff an entire industry. Especially an industry that actually helps. Because there where many times I purchase a game used and then went right around and bought the next game in that series because that used game I purchased was not only a good deal but it was surprisingly good enough for me to pay full price for the next game in that series.

What happens when XboxTwo comes out? What happens to all your content? Does the Xbox One become a brick you just plug in? What happens to legacy gaming on a Microsoft game platform?!?

Every time a new Xbox comes out, do I have to throw it away? Because MS owns everything and the servers are now shut down because they are new servers that are not backwards capable, blah, blah....?

[pete007]

It seems To me that msft is raising the price of water, or basic food To survive, im With them, let me give a bit of founds To those who work hard for us. If you're not happy, dont buy it!!
Instead go play marbles in the courtyard!!
Sony Will soon follow, just Like online Pay. Hypocrites!! Not long ago they mocked msft for doing it.
If msft Gets devs support, they ll get my support day one for sure

[scheme_a]

What the industry need to do is to come up with an alternative service that is more attractive than used game purchase instead of trying to limit the options for customers. I think Steam is doing just that, and PS+ is a great step forward.

[Dungus]

If it's "crumbling", give us a 500 TERABYTE hard drive then, you shill.

[BLAKHOODe]

I'm starting to think Microsoft is trying pull a "rope a dope" on us with the whole DRM controversy. There is just no way this is going to end well in their favor without Sony on board backing them up. NO WAY! This controversy is going to keep the Xbox One hot on our minds now till launch. We are going to hate Microsoft with a passion. Then, a few days, maybe weeks before launch, Microsoft will announce they are going to change their policies and allow used games; leaving it up to the developers, like Sony. Microsoft is our heroes again and we all buy the Xbox One....

thing is, what did Microsoft sneak pass us? The DRM is a ruse to make us forget something else going on, like maybe our privacy concerns? Don't know! But I feel Microsoft definitely has a plan.

[Swedish_Gr3mlin]

Are you seriously a retard?
Seriously? "Ouer heroes"

Omfg... kids these days.
Now go back to bed, Its to late 4 you.

[yugovega]

seems like noone read what he said. he wasn't taking up for microsoft at all. he made a really good point about why there is an issue with used games. i'm starting to understand some of the developers points.

this wll be the last gen of used games im affraid. besides nintendo who has said used games don't really effect them since their games have real replay value and people buy them new.

next gen will be dl only.

[Wolfbiker]

if all xbox one games where $40, I would be sold personally.

but I highly doubt that will happen lol, i mean its microsoft were talking about.

[esemce]

The greater the DRM the more I see people waiting for games to go in the bargain bin, less actual game purchases and more piracy.
Its simple really the games industry will 'lose' just as much money as they think are from used games.

The real culprits here are the likes of Gamestop not the little mom & pop stores or the kid that sells his game to his pal so he can then buy the latest NEW release that PUTS MONEY BACK into the industry.

And Cliffs policies would be fair if console games were like the steam model £20-30 for the big titles with large discounts when the game is older. Mod support, free multiplayer and full backwards compatibility.

[Supermax]

Start selling the digital games at 39.99 for aaa day one titles and I won't take it back to GameStop that's a fair deal.you don't need to make a physical copy ship it and sell it,saves you money it should save me money as well.

[lucidity]

Clifford "CliffyB" Bleszinski is an industry shill and his opinions should not be treated as holding weight excepting solely when they pertain to game design.

[Dagobert]

He hasn't made a single good game.

[sync90]

Isn't this trhe same guy, who a couple of weeks ago said 'ps4 will win next gen'? i remember reading it. he's always been abit of a tool.

[warewolfSS]

So let me just ask, how do you experts here on N4G know more about the game industry than a guy like cliffy ( as fucking corney as he is)?

[wishingW3L]

do you want DRM? Do you want a future where you will no longer own the games you buy? Do you want mandatory internet connection to monitor you like a sheep? Do you want a console where it only works in certain countries and only with an internet connection? Do you like having a paywall to play any games and even use Netflix? Are you an idiot?

The issue here is that CliffyB believes that game sales would be higher without used games, but how does he know that? A crystal ball maybe? Many people buy new games by selling the old ones that they don't play anymore you know. Unless you're a rich guy with a Ferrari I doubt you would be able to buy 3-4 $60 a game a month while working at a minimum wage and having to pay rent, internet and stuff (this is the reality of most middle class people if you didn't know, the dominant class around the world, the real working class).

And beside, if no one buy the games new then there can't be used games. So blocking used games is something that only benefits popular games because the unpopular ones will continue to sell equally bad (and the companies that sell these unpopular games are the ones that go out of business and not the Triple A ones).

^Common Sense^

[warewolfSS]

They would be higher. The people that make these games SHOULD have the last say. Without used games, there would be more studios, or at least more games because they would have more upside to play with. The drm dosent bother me, it's the same as steam and I have never had a problem with that. They can't just TAKE THINGS YOU PAY FOR.

As for Microsoft, I am VERY unhappy with the 24 hour check in. That really bothers me. But as for always connected, that dosent bother me. I pay m Comcast bill every month.

And I already have both systems reserved day 1 so I'm absolutely not biased.

As much as I hate to say it but, if you can't afford a hobby get out of it. It's just like the rest of America, having to adhere to a certin lifestyle do to another class of people.

[Gaming_Guru]

Sony's platform pleases everyone, so if he prefers the physical media DRM route, you can allow it on the PS4. So this doesn't phase me at all choosing the PS4, especially since self publishing is allowed on the platform.

In the end i say gamers will be more critical with what they spend, and more developers should invest in DLC where they get 100% of the profit, Valve should learn this concept.

[MontyQ]

he looks like a emo crossdresser kinda like dante in dmc reboot lol

[arkard]

Microsoft screwed up. They announce DRM and restrictions and announce not a single benefit to consumers. What if they announced the restrictions and said, because everyone had to buy a new game, games on our system will release for 15-20$ less than x360 or ps3/ps4? That didn't happen because publishers are greedy and want people to pay 60$ and not own the game. Give the consumer a benefit out of this and xbox will sell a lot better, and consumers will be happy.

[Sadist3]

People do not use their heads apperantly. The used game sale model takes money from developers. If GameStop let developers get 50% of the used game sales, maybe it wouldn't be an issue, but it is. How would you like a third party business cutting into your profits? That's why we have all this DLC and micro transactions, but I guess the average gamer doesn't see that. Yeah, people are becoming more incompetent by the day. Guess you guys want to keep playing Assasins Creed 15, Halo 12 and Call of Duty 28, cause that's all we're gonna get, and micro transactions, at the rate we're going. But you guys want that.

[arkard]

How is it different than any other used model? I buy a car, and a few years down the road sell it to someone else. Do I have to pay the manufacturer a percentage of that? Are the police going to come ticket me for selling the car? When car dealers want to make money off of what they sold what do they do? Buy the product back themselves than sell it again. How about my tv? Lawn mower? couch? How about something comparable. DVDs/blu-rays? Nope still dont have to pay the publisher a fee if I decide to sell them. Why do game publishers think they are entitled to used sales if no one else is? I think you need to use your head and quit believing everything publishers are trying to spoon feed you. If game publishers want money from used games they should be buying the games back from consumers and reselling them. If I am just "buying a license to use the game" Then the 60$ model needs to go away and become a 20-30$ model and I will fully embrace drm.

[kostchtchie_]

put prices same as PC for retail, and lower the price for Digital, and gamers will buy the games

[Sadist3]

And no one cares if you're not getting an Xbox. Just don't get one, you don't have to convince yourselves. If it makes you feel better, mine is pre ordered. I'll get a PS4 as soon as a cool exclusive comes out. And I don't care about a 24 hour check in, who the hell plays offline? I'm online once a day anyway. Shit, everyone is online on this site.

[Swedish_Gr3mlin]

......... *facepalm*

[Swedish_Gr3mlin]

Cliffy B = The UWE BOLL of gaming community.

Go back to your lime coloured car and your 16 year old GF... fracking retard.

[just-joe]

This man left Epic like a rat from a sinking ship. I think Miyamoto said it best when he said that you should strive make a game that gamers want to keep.

[redsymphony]

Gears fell off and this dude just needs attention

[DEEBO]

you wack yo!giving killa a bad look with that avi you're using.not everybody has online jackass.and think of other places in the world with little to no online whatsoever.developers are the ones wasting millions of dollars to create games,not the buyer.lol i thought his unreal engine was build to save game developers money.when you buy something,you are the owner of that item.how is this so hard for people to understand?it's like talking to a wall.give the gamer more gameplay for his money,stop all this DLC crap.what happen to gamers finishing a game to unlock bonus content.now it's a season pass.i want the developer to make their money for the game they made but at the same time i'm not trying to give my rights for it.x1 should have just went all digital download if they was so concern about publisher's getting paid.they could have save money like that.no cases,no shipping,disc doesn't have to be press up and coded.and all the money goes back to the publisher.it's more to it then used games,people are just too blind to see.

[ACEMANWISE]

Digital games should be owned and copyable and tied to your console account name and password. It should have the freedom to be backed up properly, without activation from a server to play it again. As llong as you use the game on the console and know your password you can play it. This would be favorable to all gamers and game collectors while reducing the chances of piracy.

Used games should be charged a small license transfer fee while the console generation is still current. After that it's free to trade. This would slow down the used game market but not kill it. This way the developer receives a cut, the gamer pays a small price and the used retailer would be pressured to reduce the price to offset the fee. Once you pay the transfer fee it's yours and follows the same freedoms as above. We are talking a 5-10 fee here.

Their online service should be separate from control of game ownership so that their servers won't be needed when the service ends.

[mrdeli]

Cliffy B speaks the truth.
I am getting PS4 on day one.
But but but.
I cannot believe Sony Defense Force thinks Sony is "for the people."

Sony put root-kits on CD-Roms.
Sony put Cinavia in PS3.
Sony is getting free PR and is disingenuous - just you wait.

That is all.

[logan_izer10]

There is a big difference in attempting to prevent pirated content from playing on your system and preventing LEGALLY purchased content on a system!

[Sharius]

make something i want to keep or get out of gaming industry Mr.Cliffy

[kingme71]

>You cannot have game and marketing budgets this high while also having used and rental games existing. The numbers do NOT work people.

What's wrong with that statement? Publishers have a business model that does not work. Sticking it to the consumer to make their business model work is not the answer. Fix your business model. Find ways to cut down the budget. Do you need a big name actor to voice your character when an average no name can get the job done? Do you need to build a new game engine that often?

[sprinterboy]

Pre ordered my PS4 today with KZ4 and the game assistant was giving false information about the xbone DRM. His info on both systems was sketchy lol, I was like did you watch E3. Think he was a buttheard xbox fanboy.

[lema008]

Hey, not fair! Where is the government bailout for the game industry? Cliffy B. We understand the huge budgets for AAA games. But who's responsible for blowing past their budget and making the bad games nobody wants??

The publishers need to band together and educate the public on where the gaming industry is inevitably headed. As of right now, it's fragmented on how to handle the sale of physical games.

[MadMen]

In the end it doesnt matter what companies or devs or people like him want.

The consumer decides what comes and goes, they put these constraints in do to money, consumers have the money we dictate the direction.

Use your wallet buy whats in our interest not theirs.

[NightStalker33]

I'm not sure how much of an argument I can make, since I buy all my games new, but what exactly is wrong with the system?

Most of the world is still in a recession, if you haven't noticed. During these times, developers should be finding ways to REDUCE development costs, not blast them into the sky and bring out 60$ games, which come out by the dozen every few months. People can't afford to buy every single game that somewhat interests them new.

The average COD, GTA, and BF started out fairly small, and as demands for those games grew, so did the budget. Too many new IP's are trying to get millions right off the bat without a implemented install base for the game or developer.

I bought Sly Cooper: Thieves in Time and Scribblnauts Unlimited day 1, at full price, because I know the feel of these games, played them before, and was willing to spend money on something I knew I would love.

I bought Killzone 3 used (Last game used in the past 2 years) because I never played killzone, and wanted to start somewhere for 20$. I loved the game, and bought the dlc and classic KZ2 maps for it as a result, and plan on buying KZ:SF for PS4 new.

Thats how the system works; introduce something new to someone, they'll probably buy it used to try it, and buy the next edition new if they like it.
Right, excuse the massive rant.

[despair]

Who is this guy again? Wasn't he in the games industry but left, he should stick to twitter.

[Kos-Mos]

He looks like a character from...hehe...tehehe...g..g..h ehehe....gears of war....hahaha.

[logan_izer10]

WHO CARES ABOUT CLIFFY B!!! Why on earth does this guy get so much face time?! Guy is a moron.

[shinrock]

Maybe I'm wrong, but don't used games sales rely on new game sales.there would not be a used game market without new game being sold. When did gamers start believing that you shouldn't' have to pay to play.

[VTKC]

Lol that's fresh coming from him since he is Gears and Microsoft related. Of course hes going to back them on it regardless whether it is right or wrong.
I played Gears 1 2 & 3. The story is done. Going backwards with the story with Gears: R. I am not interested in.
How many more could he possibly do? Same with Halo. The original makers got that sick they had to give the design of Halo to Microsoft in order to leave since it was them who funded it.
Now they making Destiny. good for them.

[Mikeyy]

Dear Cliffy B,

Thats cool that you are really greedy and just cannot get enough cash to keep your hair dyed red. I wish you the best of luck with the Xbone, and it's anti-consumer policies.

I will be joining the rest of the "sane" gamers who will be buying a PS4 and praying that the Xbone sells so abysmally, that sprouting the letters DRM in that order would get you fired soo fast from your development job.

And the day that happens, I would not be so sure the PS4 gamers would be ready to take you back. You are a blight to Epic, and they should let you go.

It's too bad you will never read this, because if you acually read around the internet what the "consumers" think about Microsoft, the Xbone, or you for that matter, you would not be sitting there conducting the interview like you just did. Be afraid, be very afraid.

-Gamers, AKA Your paycheck, AKA Your hair dye, AKA Your sports car, AKA your life son.

[takohma]

this had me in tears laughing so hard. lol

[skyrimer]

says the guy with a few Ferrari and living like a rockstar.

[ExitToExisT]

The thumbnail is hilarious.

[MetalArcade]

Is this a recent picture of him? He looks like Seth Green in 1999

[AHall88]

No one takes this guy seriously, right?

[takohma]

I really hope not. I think he gets on peoples nerves more so.

[georgedubya]

From the article:

"You cannot have game and marketing budgets this high while also having used and rental games existing. The numbers do NOT work people."

So that's why movies like avatar, the avengers, and all the other blockbuster movies with insane budgets cost $60 at best buy and can't be resold on ebay. It all makes sense now.

[AHall88]

How movies are sold =/= to how video games are sold.
Movies have different places to get revenue from, theater, on demand, TV rights, etc.
Video games have only one time to make revenue, when it's released. Of course DLC is starting to becoming a new standard so I guess you could add that to the list.

I'm not saying used games are the problem mind you. I think publishers need to wake up and stop expecting every AAA budget game to be a hit. They've let budgets get WAY to high and they have only themselves to blame for that, not used games, not "entitled" gamers, just themselves.

[tonywood]

I think blocking used games is "bush league", simply because the fact that most goods in the US are second hand. When I sell my Honda Accord...the company doesn't tell the new owner, "yea...we're gonna need you to pay US for the right to start it up". I'm going PC now.....not paying 2x for online usage, games content/mp, and/or season pass crap. (I will keep my PS3 for blu ray, 3d, and current library only.saving for a gaming laptop now.

As for online fees....companies/devs can suck it! They making dough, and only trying to steal extra. MOH: Warfighter sucked....and EA had the gaul to charge for online access on thier garbage game!? I will accept fees for mega games like gears, halo, and cod....but not every game. Thats BS that won't fly with me.

[takohma]

Exactly even though I was upset at how bad MOH became. It pissed me off that they online fees lol. I would like them to explain themselves for that one.

[tonywood]

Funny how the auto industry is doing perfectly well....and they make f-ing cars EVERY damn year!

All consle gamers got to do is band together like the PC community, and not buy the next consoles...or irs games. (But of course...console gamers are spindles sheep, with no heart!) MS tried to screw over PC gamers with windows live and Halo/gear....how did that work out? Lol

[Tommymk2]

Just look at his face n hair he looks like a right dick that about sums him up.

[giggsy13]

what a nob.

[giggsy13]

he is clearly bang in the middle of a mid life crisis, look at the state of him. He looks like he's just left a green day gig in 1994, and snorted a gram of coke up his hooter. Sort it out Cliffy

[fsfsxii]

Maybe if the games were worth the 60$ it wouldn't be crumbling, most games aren't worth 40$ nowadays because of DLCs and half assed incomplete game, publishers, give m a game worth the 60$ and i will keep it. If not, then fuck off. I actually stopped buying games at launch, since 2 months ago, the last game i bought at launch is the Last of Us and its worth it.
About Cliffy, I was just checking his twitter out and i can tell that he's a friggin TOOL, he's pbviously anti-sony for making the PS4 with no restrictions, and he's kissing Don Mattrick's ass. Not sure what he wants though.

[MrAnderson]

Cliffy B is such a douchebaggy name...ugh

[takohma]

It is lol

[ThyMagicSword]

Looks like he saw a ghost farting around his house, when he was cliffy B alone at home playing Steroids on Crack 3 on his bitter sweet chocolate Xbox 360 with a chunk of red berries on his mushroomhead, bitch.

[MadMax]

Yea, its easy for Cliff to say that while he sits there with all his damn riches!!! What a fraud!

[SicilianGunner]

only reason why this guy complaining is because his games sucked since gears of war 2

[ThyMagicSword]

Or maybe his second Name is Max and he is mad, that could be another possibility...

[takohma]

I'll tell you Cliffy B that if I am unsure that I will like said game I WILL NOT purchase new. I will buy it used and if I like it I'll buy the sequel/prequel new. that's how used games help. This guy is ridiculous. I would probably would have tons of physical fights with this guy if he was my friend. Yeah the friendship wouldn't last very long if I knew him.

[ThyMagicSword]

If you put the right bite on the fishing pole, you will get tons of fish.

[D-riders]

how rich are you cliffy?? of course numbers dont lie when your greedy

[ThyMagicSword]

Thos man seems crushed from reality, every big mouth will be crushed from reality sooner or later, he is turning into himself with red hairs and new Courage of life he will become! He will become! You are it, dude! Never understand the reasons why on his endless Devotion for creating masterpieces like gears and now upset? C'mon, man. Make a journey on the mountains, tank some fresh air and come back with natural hair Color.

[KontryBoy706]

Cliff never ever learns when to keep his mouth shut. It's like every time he has something to say he get's more and more hatred

[b-real]

Its funny that people here know more about the industry than people actually in the industry.

How many P&L documents of small studios have you analysed? What is the estimated impact of used games on a studio? What percentage of these do the '2nd hand' game market lead by retailers cost developers? I am curious - everyone one this forum knows more than people in the industry, so please enlighten me.

You are all what is wrong with the games industry. You are the reason that we have so many COD, Assassins Creed's and FIFA's. You are the reason that all game developers need to rely on EA, Activision and Ubisoft - who despite deep pockets, are not willing to take a risk on new ideas/genres because they need to make a profit to appease shareholders - and you need to factor in that 35% of sales will be 2nd hand and that no revenue will be generated.

You are all killing gaming, making it boring. Stop killing my hobby. Stop killing innovation.

Open you eyes - Sony has completely tricked you! The only games that wont have DRM are Sony's first party games - which was done purely for the PR - not because they are some mater organisation that is standing up for consumer rights. all 3rd party publishers are going to implement some sort of DRM, and because it is going to handled by each individual publisher it is going to be messy and confusing.

I know I am wasting my time here - if anything has been clear over the past 2 weeks, its that the average age and IQ of people that post here are both in the mid teens.

[Poacher2]

Nah its the same as ps3 and 360 only online pass... and ea has recently stoped making it.They said it the only restriction 3rd party can put is online.

[b-real]

source? I certainly didn't here this in the press conference - have there been additional details released?

[Poacher2]

http://www.gamesthirst.com/...

and for ea go on xb l;ive and psn you will see that online passes are free now.

[fatstarr]

Lol If xbox one sells and sony beats them by 19million.

they will say wow jeeze, maybe we can adopt that model for next gen and make more money, like what they did with this upcoming gen having to pay for playstation plus to play multiplayer.